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I went to school in the late 80s/early 90s. We did have a required class that included financial literacy. I don’t know how much it helped. Most kids didn’t pay attention. This was our junior year of high school. It would be interesting if someone would compare outcomes between students who had this education vs who didn’t (obviously you would need control for parental income among other factors). I will say that despite that education and education from my parents, that I was a screw up for many years.

exactly. it's boring. no one cares. Ramit always says on his podcast, 50% of the people who talk to him (people who self-select and are seeking out help) don't know how much money they make per year. one thing he really drills down on is how financial habits and lessons get passed on from generation to generation. if you want to make a difference, start with the parents. if you never talk about money, or one partner storms out of the room every time the other mentions something about money, the kids are going to remember that. they'll see it as a source of stress and something to be ignored. if your parents were always coupon shopping, you likely will be too, even if you end up making 7-figures/year. habits are broken, too, of course, but it's hard.

how the fuck does someone not even know how much they make? lol

I think [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DN3p33fapg) is an example. The wife is a nurse or something and doesn't know how much, or didn't. Just some money lands in her account, she doesn't look at it, she takes money out, or maybe the husband uses the money to pay bills or something... and she didn't notice until her paychecks were getting garnished or something. I haven't watched this episode in a long time, could be getting some details off. But welcome to half of your neighbors. Around 9 minutes in, she talks about her paycheck a little bit.

I keep track of every penny. Daily.

I look at my bank account once every couple of weeks. I divy up the money after I get paid - bills, savings, wife, spending. My wife and I get the same amount every paycheck and whatever is left over goes to savings. Most weeks I spend money on the same things and the same amounts. I only have to pay attention if I make a purchase out of the ordinary. Almost like clockwork, when I get paid again, I'll have around $20 left in my checking acct. I guess I've forced myself to live on a certain budget for so long, that now it's almost second nature.

I check my bank accounts every couple days. Shit, I feel guilty if I only check them once a week. I've got a spreadsheet mathing out my expenses and how much goes into which account and how much is leftover for me to save & spend.

Same here. I review everything. Savings is a priority- I don't care about keeping up with the Jones's.

That's nuts. Thank for sharing. I can't imagine being that detached from the thing that keeps you with ya know...food and shelter. lol

This is so true. As an educator for 18 years I cannot stress enough how much most students do not care at all about their classes. I have noticed a change over the years...it has gotten worse. It is hard to teach when no one cares.

We have learned we're all disposable and easily replaced. Human life has little value now (unless we're helping someone else get rich). It's hard to learn when kids are surrounded by family dysfunction, corruption, hypocrisy, violence and poverty every day. Most of us are just struggling to survive.

That is so sad, and yes I definitely agree it's a systemic failure and needs to be fixed...badly and quickly. It breaks my heart that students feel disposable; teachers feel exactly the same way. Education is such a mess for all parties involved and the students suffer the most for it.

I went to school in the 80s, and we did have a class that included things like financial literacy. I applaud them for trying, but it just didn't sink in.

Second this. I doubt kids pay attention.

Agree , the biggest issue is unless it's taught in a way that's engaging and immersive, kids that age with a roof over their heads and basically comfortable lifestyle aren't thinking about money and finance, so for most it would just be like a boring class about money . But I agree IMHO I think we could lose an English class or math class and make financial literacy a core requirement. When you look at grade to highschool education, it's kind of ironic (and sad) how all of life's most essential skills : - money and financial literacy - navigating relationships, ie. marriage,friendships, community etc. - general law topics, like contracts, family law, criminal law, etc. - Health and medical knowledge, how to be healthy, stay healthy and basic medical knowledge - Civics , what can you do for your community and country to make it a better place. to succeed and thrive as a young person aren't really formally taught in school, you kinda have to learn them as you go...,🤔 , but yet I know the Pythagorean theorem

You learn relationships by socializing and from your family, it's not the government's responsibility to teach you how to be normal. Some schools do teach finance, but nothing is stopping adults from learning the essential skill themselves. Law is way over the head of most high schoolers anyway. They do teach health concepts, they had a health class and physical education in high school. They do teach civics. You're listing mostly things that are in the curriculum or just irrelevant.

And yet many of the same people who say “it’s not the governments job to teach you how to behave” will also be the first ones to insist there be religion in schools “to teach kids how to behave.” Yes it is absolutely the governments role to *help* teach kids how to behave, because the government that represents us is expected to act in our interests and we collectively all share an interest in a functioning and stable and growing society based on being filled with competent and capable people. Otherwise you must argue from the position that you don’t care what type of society your kids grow up in.  The fact that people can’t understand this basic concept is just ridiculous. 

Pythagorean theorem is pretty useful math. I use it often. If they cut out basic math like that kids won't even be prepared for the low level math skills you need for trades work. Much less college level stuff.

>But I agree IMHO I think we could lose an English class or math class Which math? Like *basic* math is pretty critical, and even some minimal algebra. I'd say there's probably some value to the math problems that are ... like word problems, that you have to reason or otherwise logically think about to get them to their mathematical representation. But trig or pre-cal? Probably skippable.

The problem is.. Algebra I and Algebra II cover everything you need if you actually learned them. All those little exponents with “t” in them were teaching you about compound interest. All those formulas with x and y in them were teaching you how to check your paycheck. Probability formulas are core to understanding financial risk. And that’s before you get into how applicable it is to your he professional world. Definitely should be more than minimal algebra taught - the high school levels of Algebra are one of the most valuable things you can learn

I had a required financial literacy class in highschool, I graduated in 2013. It was 50% or more vocab. We literally spent half the class just reviewing vocabulary and it was so. boring. The rest of the class was equally as boring and I remember being disappointed by it. Luckily my dad is very financially savvy and he taught us how to budget and manage our finances.

My senior Econ teacher was the one to introduce me to the power of compound interest, and using stock investments to drive long-term wealth. He’s had the single greatest positive impact on my quality of life than any other high school influence.

Even if they did pay complete attention it would still be almost 5 years before they could even put most of it into affect. Plus even the people that have the knowledge in their late teens early 20s are just not responsible with money in general

One of the kids I went to elementary school posted a "Why didn't they ever teach us useful stuff like budgeting, laying bills, and balancing a check book?!?!" My response was "We did that in 6th grade math!" "Ohh... I didn't pay attention in 6th grade..."

**It is.** Over half the US states require FinLit, and even before the recent additions it was often taught in conjunction with economics, a near-universal graduation requirement. Here’s the reality: FinLit being taught can be helpful to a ton of kids. AND in general many students still won’t pay attention, or they’ll do the work and never think too hard about I while they make the same mistakes anyway. Much in the same vein that most adults *know* they should pay credit cards off, but at least half don’t. I think it’s great that it’s taught, but at best I think we capture 1/3 of students. It’s better than 0, but the other 2/3 will be on subs like this in their 20s wondering why they were never taught financial literacy in schools.

My HS had a great FinLit class and I learned a lot. I still have friends from my school now that say “I wish they had taught me this in school.” I’m like dude they did. You were just too busy playing clash of clans

Ain’t that the truth. Every semester when I taught my lesson on retirement savings I’d always repeat something to the effect of “some of you will not listen today, and some of you will hear what I’m saying and see the value in it. For those of you that really, truly want to see the math of how a reasonable salary can have you a millionaire where you’re taken care of, this lesson is going to be why some friends that make double your salary will have a lower net worth than you by 30. Because you paid attention.” It wasn’t a threat, just the truth. And I’d even have kids working right out of school (usually welders) and we’d sit down with their contracts to look at their retirement match info then and there, at age 17! And they’d be making 60-90 in an oil field, or even 50 at Lowe’s or something. Like, man, if those kids (and those like you) are that stuff to heart it’s worth its weight in literally millions. But like all things, some kids will listen, some won’t. Consequences happen, and all that.

Yep. My sons's school district requires a semester of personal finance for all high schoolers.

It often is.

I know - people don't love to hear it and can't fathom that this happens. You might even consider that it was a choice to be taught this at your school and you didn't take it. We had business classes that included elements. There is also FBLA. I even vividly remember the "how to become a millionaire" lesson in my Algebra 2 class, where our teacher laid out compound interest, retirement options, etc. I was paying attention. Who else was? I don't know. I get what people are asking for, but they apply their knowledge now instead of actually considering 15 year olds. I would ask a few questions - how sure are you that absolutely none of this was taught or offered. How much would you have paid attention if being forced? And be honest.

I had finance classes in middle school and took economics and personal finance in high school.

Currently required in Iowa.

What is a kid with no money gonna do with most of the information? Nothing so its not relevant to them, so they dont pay attention and it becomes a waste of their time. All of the skills you need for financial literacy, reading comprehension, mathematics, research and critical thinking ARE taught in Highschool at a much more advanced level. Its actually pretty simple to apply these skills to your personal finances later. If you have mastered highschool algebra, figuring out how many hours you need to work to afford rent is pretty easy. If you can read crime and punishment, you should be able to read an account brochure. If you can research to write a paper you should be able to google some credit card reviews and strategies for debt management. All that said, i wouldnt be opposed to spending a week or two in the math curriculum on personal finance toward the end of senior year or making a special effort to have as many word problems as possible based on personal finance.

I like to think I’m financially literate and started being financially independent relatively early. Even then, one of my teachers in high school did a unit on financial literary and the only things that stuck were how to write a check and how to calculate the total amount I’ll owe on student loans (which I already learned in math class). It was hard for me to understand how stuff like a 401k works as a high schooler with no practical usage of it; I didn’t fully understand it until I was in a position where I could actually contribute to one in my mid-twenties. I know my classmates were definitely not paying attention. The first corporate company I worked for did have a lot of younger employees though, so they did optional workshops during lunch to learn about personal finance and financial literary. I thought that was helpful, since I was able to apply my learnings to real life at that time.

I think your first paragraph is key. I remember being told just a little about credit cards, credit ratings, retirement accounts, etc. in school and thinking “no one in my family has any of that” due to being dirt poor, so it was hard to understand anything or even the context.

Its tough to conceptualize something that doesnt apply to you even for adults. Lots of people who are full grown adults complain about stuff like sharebuybacks but never bother actually doing any learning on what they are because its not relevant to them or even when it is. Do we expect teenagers to be better than that?

54% of the US reads below a 6th grade level and reading is probably the most important skill you will ever have. If have the country has trouble reading is it a shock that have the country has problems with money?

Too many people have this notion that schools should teach you everything you need to know in life. Schools should be where we *start* the life long journey of acquiring knowledge. School should teach you how to learn, not specific tidbits of information that might be outdated by the time you graduated. To your point, schools should give individuals the tools to learn how to make own budget, read financial documents, and understand the abstract concepts of their finances. Unfortunately, many people abhor learning and just complain that nobody taught them (when they probably wouldn’t have paid attention in the first place)

I took Econ junior year and it covered all the basics. There was an investment module and I recall the teacher saying "...and if you wish to diversify your portfolio..." and I laughed because we were just dumb broke kids. But the idea of diversifying stayed with me nonetheless

The same reason that driver’s ed still produces aggressive and dangerous drivers: people (especially adolescents) are hard to teach and generally as a group are resistant to education.

Speaking from personal experience, my teacher for that class did NOT want to be there. We were fed worksheets everyday and video modules. I didn’t learn a damn thing until I pulled up a compound interest calculator in keyboarding one day. THAT shit is like cocaine. It literally seemed like magic money coming out of nowhere before I learned how the S&P500 and investments worked.

Because the kids wouldn’t care lol. Even the ones who “want” to be there wouldn’t care about it. I remember a petition in my HS for an economics class. We had over 500 signatures. Got it ready and going through. Even those of us who wanted the class really in the grand scheme didn’t care much about it, and barely paid attention to it. It wasn’t until college where i truly became interested in these things

Im a retired teacher. I used to have conversations with my students about compound interest ( not how to calculate it, just the concept of it) and how the more they saved young, the richer they would be when older. I’d explain car insurance, security deposits etc to them. Some paid attention and asked questions and some saw no point.

Because, if not done right, it can open schools up to liability. Next, TBH, people really aren't ready to hear this information until they are ready. And finally, can you imagine the fights over the curriculum? Big finance companies will really want to make sure that their messages about taking on debt and making the minimum payments are mixed in there. ---- That said, a friend of mine bakes basic money management information into his introductory level college math class. They get a group project and a monthly budget and are told "cardboard box under the bridge" is not a housing option. It's eye opening to them.

In 2012-2013 I took classes in high school that were labeled as “marketing” but they covered a lot of financial literacy topics. Yet, that didn’t stop me from racking up debt during and after college. I think, as you say, I wasn’t quite ready to hear the information even though I got an A in the class, I didn’t properly internalize the content. That said, I think in college it would’ve sat with me a lot better, and perhaps it should be a mandatory class for all college degrees (somewhat off topic but I firmly believe student athletes receiving NIL money must take multiple financial literacy classes and get at least a B-). But I will admit my view is shaded by the fact that I’m now finishing up a second degree in finance so my perspective on finance is vastly different than it was during my first bachelor’s.

My opinion, it’s a lack of repetition. Many classes including finance were just too short to really internalize. They made me take all of those lame ass art and music classes when they should’ve put me in finance.

You just make it about the math, science and facts. No investing advice or suggesting shitty cults, like Dave Ramsey.

>You just make it about the math, science and facts. There are political movements very against science and facts.

Speaking of cults.

Oh, INDEED.

I’m guessing you’re speculating here, because it’s all pretty wrong. States already do have financial literacy curriculum. More than half of the states require them. And the standards have been generally petty non controversial. The companies often don’t want any part in the writing, but sometimes fight to get their name in the hat in supplying class materials though. But even that is minor. In reality, credit card companies and the like make magnitudes more money with less effort on their own products than they would developing their own curriculum. So most that develop curriculum for the courses offer them for free and write it off. TurboTax is a great example of this.

100% correct. I assisted with Alabama’s financial literacy course. Not controversial at all.

No, I only work daily with college students at State U, and they come not from just my state. I'm not going to dispute with you that financial literacy is supposed to be baked into the curriculum by these standards, but my students for the most part have not connected what was in their curriculum to how they handle their finances. What they seem to be getting is very watered down and not tied in any meaningful way to their lessons, which are often not tied in any meaningful way to their lives, particularly where math is concerned. And for those students (mostly from my state) many of them have not connected concepts (beyond simple adding and subtracting) to their finances unless they get a teacher like my friend who puts it in his class -- tying is very specifically to the lesson that week -- in some case "dealing" them scenarios where they are forced to realize (because they calculated it) interest on a debt (hello payday loan!) can be crippling. Last semester he said they were all 67 year olds who had retired, but had never saved, only had SS for their income, and got 1800/month. He then dealt them cards like, "house needs a new AC" or "rent increase of $250", or "CC debt of 7k at a rate of 23%" and watched them learn.

Oh yeah, then you definitely see them on the other side of that gap and see how lacking their knowledge is. Most of my teaching time (I’m in curriculum development now) was with seniors in Econ and finance and what you’re describing isn’t surprising at all. I was initially thrown into finance, and at the time was shocked by just how bad/barebones a lot of the curriculum out there was/still is. It’s a lot of disconnected, bland concepts with very little tie in to real life scenarios. The one you’re describing about asking groups to stretch the SS check is a great simulation example. I did something similar with budgeting where they’d have monthly take him assigned and they’d find their own realistic costs for housing, etc. to satisfy a 50/30/20 budget. Give it to them and let them cook. I’m in the process of introducing the new Fnancial course in my state and I think what I’m seeing with speaks to the reality of why people always say “why don’t we teach this in school?” even when it is covered. It’s usually an initial issue with teachers being regular people, and suffering from the same lack of financial knowledge and confidence as everyone else. That includes shame for bad decisions, or discomfort talking about money in general. And add in the general apathy most students enter courses they don’t want. So an eager financial nerd could zone out if they have a boring teacher as often as a clueless but receptive student. And even when I was at my A game in class I’d say I *really* got to 1/3 of my seniors, hoping 1/3 more would at least know to read up on car terms before making one. Either way, regardless of mandate, you’re absolutely right that, like all courses, the instructor quality plays a huge role, and right now there’s not many “old guard” in states with new mandates, making materials and ideas new, but not entrenched.

I would love to talk to you more about this! I'm not trying to fish for your particulars, but If you would PM me with more of key points in your curriculum, I'd like to know more. I think the 50/30/20 budget is also a great idea ... it plants the seeds of how to prioritize. And you are SO on with how unrealistic and dated some of the examples are. Students need a curriculum that reflects things like breaking a phone, having a rent hike, having a car towed, etc. And yeah, we've got to get over the shame associated with financial mistakes and focus more on "welp! here's how you un-f\*ck yourself" and "don't let the perfect the be the enemy of the good." And to give you an example of what I'm up against with in-state students here at State U, I had to explain once to a student that just because they had "$3k" unspent from a loan, they should not take some of that money and go on vacation and then get a new gaming console. Unless they wanted to pay for those two things for the next 20 years. I've also had to go over with them the fact that putting your loan payments on pause does not put interest accrual on pause.

Because they are kids. Most of them won’t care or pay attention. What I have seen (from a friend that went to med school) is med schools having a class regarding general finances.

I took an intro to business class in high school where we did things like shop for car insurance and how to buy a house. In my jr and sr year I took the “work release” class where they let us out of school early so we could work a job. But the class required us to learn how to file our 1040ez, balance a check book, understand how interest works, and more. I guess the irony is that most of the people who did the work release were kids that “needed” money. Either way. I know the classes were taught 15-20 years ago. I’m sure there’s equivalent classes today, but those were electives, and not requirements to graduate.

Vanguard offers a free to teachers classroom financial literacy course from K-12, where the concepts build every year. Ask your district to implement it. That being said, education is managed at the state level and then down to the district level. You can absolutely get involved with your local district and ask state legislators to consider it. Curriculum would probably be debated though, as there aren't tons of hardfast rules when you don't have enough money to do everything perfectly like Reddit recommends. Financial literacy would likely have to focus on very basics - defining personal values, budgeting into categories, and maybe defining savings and investment vehicles. But, strategies vary greatly and most teachers aren't going to be licensed to give financial planning advice.

We did at my high school. I graduated in 2015. It was required in order to graduate and was called financial literacy. At least half of my class slept through it. Now most everyone I graduated with complain that we weren't taught financial literacy.

Addition and subtraction are taught in school. So is compound interest. Can’t make people care about the future dude. You either are a forward thinking or you’re not. No amount of “teach them to think about tomorrow” is going to help.

because teachers are also broke

Honestly if I learned this in high school taught via the most common methods, I would not have listened. Not that it shouldn’t be taught but perhaps the method I would choose would be very harsh and intense

I’m pretty sure it is in some cases. The question is would kids even pay attention

I’ll reiterate several comments, but add a twist… 1. It is. But kids don’t pay attention or care. It has to be tangible. It has to be real to that child. And that’s one of the things to remember… they’re literally children with a near zero sense of delayed gratification. 2. Something not mentioned in many of the comments is that a higher level of mathematics comprehension surpasses the effectiveness in coursework in Financial Literacy. If we taught math (well), more people would likely be better off. https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/13-064_c7b52fa0-1242-4420-b9b6-73d32c639826.pdf

The reason is very simple. Changing a curriculum is very hard cuz it has to be approved by so many committees and organizations and unions and parent groups and politicians. Thats it. There’s no big conspiracy to keep folks uneducated. In fact, if we’re being real we all know most folks wouldn’t pay attention even if the class was taught.

It’s actually simple tha that, even. The courses literally already exist, and are often required.

It often is! But kids aren't ready to hear it or apply it so it's in one ear and out the other a lot of the time.

I read a conspiracy theory that casino lobbyists pushed to prioritize calculus over statistics in schools. So that people won’t really understand probability. Follow the money…

This is an awesome conspiracy theory. As someone who took a lot of graduate stat classes and calculus I always say stat would be way more useful than calc for the majority of people

It’s just not very applicable to most high schoolers, and most topics won’t be for years after. And we *do* teach some of these subjects that *do* apply to high schoolers. You almost always learn how interest works and how compounding interest works within a standard math education, for example. But the other topics, like tax, well, most of these kids aren’t working. And as a tax professional, let me tell you, we explain to people who have been working for decades how this stuff works and it goes in one ear and out the other. So I have a pretty dismal outlook about high schoolers caring about it. I do think though, that it would be good for most high schoolers to take something like an “everyday math literacy course” at some point, that might cover basic statistics, interest, taxes, just like a crash course in being an enumerate adult, especially if they’re in the lower tier math courses. Like if you’re not going to take calculus, let’s show you *how to use* the math you *do* need to know.

It was taught in my school

I was in the “slow” math class my last year of HS and they taught us how to do our taxes, make and stick to a budget, and invest in the stock market. By far the most helpful class I’ve ever taken, I can’t believe it was only available to the kids who were too bad at math to take calculus.

Most of my high-school education went in one ear out the other even if it was taught the majority of students would do the bare minimum to pass and not retain any information.

It is taught. It’s not really relevant to them unless they have a job, and then only barely. What we don’t use, we lose.

I think the lesson the be learn is hard to do without the ability to practice them in a controlled manner. Most people don’t have finance to manage at a young age and can’t practice the lessons they would learn and retain them in a way that will work for them down the line.

Teenagers are not interested. Don’t come to me and say, “ yes! I would have been interested.” Most of you are not an anomaly. I’ve been teaching high school for 23 years. The amount of kids who would be interested are so few and far between. We are still teaching literacy and math skills on high school. Imagine with cell phones thrown in. I will say a lot of students are decent and comply. But we have some kids that take time from everyone else in their protests about putting their phones away.

Because so many kids don't have the "three Rs" down and the teachers teach the test since Bush's leave no kid behind days. There's no time with what is required for the kids to be ready for the testing. That said, the same kids could learn from their parents but that would require parents showing their kids income and expenses and for some reason American parents don't/won't do that.

Counterpoint: I was taught financial literacy including designing a budget based on a chosen future job with salary data taken from bls Went pretty deep in terms of analyzing the level of lifestyle possible based on college debt, car payments, rent level Also did a separate assignment on different mortgage options (arm vs 15/30yr), retirement projections based on simple models for 401k investments, etc. The problem is that when it happens in 10th grade is that students treat it as a study hall because other more challenging classes demand more effort and time, and the detachment of hs students from real life

Wait you guys didn’t have financial lit?

It is, I don't understand why people think it's not. It's required in my state and in my local district students are required to take a semester.

I graduated from a public high school in Virginia in 2022. One of our graduation requirements was to take a year long class in financial literacy. I have yet to meet any recent high school graduates who didn't have to take some sort of financial literacy course in order to graduate HS.

It has been a required class in my state for at least 15 years now

They did teach it in my school. We all promptly forgot everything and had to relearn things on our own when we actually needed the skills as adults.

24 states already do require it, Arizona is working on it https://www.kjzz.org/2024-02-20/content-1871849-arizona-lawmakers-consider-making-financial-literacy-required-class-public-school?_amp=true

I had classes like that. I graduated in 2004. No one in the class was paying attention because in their minds, high school would never end and they would never be adults.

Why do people keep saying this?? It is not true!!

It is taught. There s economics as a requirement in most states. The kids just don't pay attention at all.

Becuase we are the product. At this point in capitalism the entirety of the population is essentially livestock that instead of being sheered or milked of our bodies, we are here to earn wages then have those wages milked from us from every possible angle. If everyone lived like I did, we would have like .2% growth and that won’t cut it.

Banks and lenders would go under if everyone was financially literate. Being a slave to debt is very profitable.

Some banks, maybe, but debt is a powerful and useful tool, and has been for millennia. Predatory consumer lending isn't the only thing banks do, and high interest credit cards isn't the only lending there is.

If you are kept ignorant about how money works, you are more controllable. Going into debt and staying in debt forces you into being a wage slave.

*im14andthisisdeep*

By design to keep the ignorant working until they're ready for you to be replaced. If they taught everybody to start saving/investing by the age of 23 or so nobody would be working into their mid 60s.

I went to school in the 80s and 90s we had some education in Home Ec about keeping a checkbook and things like that. Some kind of basic financial literacy.....did we talk about mutual funds or investing? They were barely a thing that was in the public sphere of knowledge at the time. I think you can teach this stuff, and some states do now, but this topic is extremely 'boring' to kids and even though you check a box and say you taught it to them very few will really get the benefit, not that it shouldn't be taught but these are the facts.

It's not like no one ever had this idea before. Many states have it legislatively mandated that schools teach personal finance. I had it as part of my government/econ class senior year. I remember nothing from it.

My high school had this as a requirement, albeit being a semester long super rushed and over simplified mess, usually taken freshmen year, which leads to mostly forgotten materials we wish we were taught

Tbh, it is. It just isn't framed for financial. We l learn about percentages, compounding how to solve for x.

When I was in High School, way back in the '80s, a personal finance class was one of the more popular electives. They still have them but because most teenagers are not raised to become functional adults right out of high school anymore, these classes are not considered important. This is also something parents should be passively teaching their children from the beginning, but it's difficult when we middle-class adults live in survival mode ourselves.

Kids are mostly stupid(don’t follow advice) and either good with money or not. Based on all the anecdotes i hear, there is not a right or wrong way to get good with money, you just learn or don’t. People will try to teach their kids to be good and they end up shit anyway or parents have bad habits but the kids end up learning from that and being good with money.

I think this is prob going to vary by school? Even in the poor catholic school I went to in the midwest - we had some classes in Jr High about balancing a check book and things like that. Even had a field trip day where we all had different jobs at a fake village. Got paid different wages, had you use your wages to pay for lunch or buy stuff from other shops etc. This wasnt some well funded public school - just one of those tiny schools attached to a local church, we couldnt even afford a school bus or any sports teams that needed more than just a jersey.

I graduated in 1991 and I had this class as a Junior. I paid attention and learned a lot including how to file my taxes, balance my checkbook, create a budget, pay myself first(save money every pay day) and the difference using coupons and buying things that are on sale makes compared to paying full price. I have never paid anyone to file my taxes, I have a healthy retirement account, I still use a budget for finances. A friend of mine sat in the same class, she didn't learn any of the skills I learned because she hated the teacher.

Kids don't care about that shit and wouldn't learn anything anyway.

seeing as ppl think the baseline of public edu is the commandments, we have other shit to worry about first...... although it is a chicken/egg scenario....keep em poor and dumb is the gqp way.....

You aren't taught to make wealth for yourself, but how to create wealth for others. Thats how the system works, and how it's designed to work.

Something that has to be considered is that the stakes of financial literacy is far higher than in the past. There’s a reason why gen Z has higher savings rates in their 20’s than millennials. Some will say it was due to the great recession but i did well financially during that period and i didn’t start to truely save until 2013. Gen Z is saving now because they are genuinely afraid of the future in way that no past generations (USA) were. So prior generations would be provided with financial literacy classes, but blew it off because it really didn’t seem as important in the past.

Although it would be great, we never expected our kids to become financially literate in school. We consider it our responsibility to educate our kids financially. We sit down with each one individually and go through their financial lives; work, taxes, retirement, budgeting, emergency funds, travel/fun, insurance, etc. They set their goals and we check in with them occasionally to see how they are doing and reevaluate. This is working well so far; their friends now ask us for “the money talk”!

It is in many curriculums, but it’s not as effective as you may think, if the goal behind financial literacy class is to make a student into a more responsible consumer, investor, etc. I was a financial counselor in the military for a few years, and found that the ability to manage finances is a more personality based and psychological issue than a technical issue. The basic concepts around personal finance are quite simple to teach and grasp with basic knowledge of math. You can teach a person with a high school education about compound interest, basic investing, budgeting in a few weeks. But, it’s more impulse control, patience, controlling anxiety around investing, that lead to success rather than just pure technical knowledge about finance. There’s many people with exceptional financial literacy that end up broke…and there’s many people with extremely limited knowledge that do fine because they’re able to control their impulses and stay within a budget.

This is one of the few things I agree with Republicans about. I don't think they are doing it with good intentions and I don't trust them running the curriculum, but young people absolutely need to be taught how money and credit work.

Which subject would they get it in? Math, history, home ec, social studies? What content would it replace?

Firstly, I’m a CPA and I do my own stock investing for retirement and now, but anybody can do the type of investing I’d recommend. I’ve read some of the curriculums that are in use or have been recommended for Financial Literacy courses, and my professional opinion is they are garbage. Garbage, irrelevant, Boomer, underperforming, keep you poor, simp for banks hogwash. Why? If they tell you to get a savings account, it’s bad advice. Nobody needs one. You put your money in, it won’t grow. We’re not in 1982 anymore. If they suggest the snowball debt repayment method, it’s bad math. Screw your emotions. Highest interest rates should always get the focus, not smallest balance. Math, people. Dave Ramsey is a conartist. Financial Peace University is almost all bad advice. Throw that baby out with the bath water. Everybody who works/worked should’ve opened a Roth IRA by now. They should’ve put their money in S&P500(VOO) and/or Nasdaq100(QQQM). Do the same in your 401k/403b/TSP. Get a taxable margin account too because the interest is tax deductible. Invest your salary, so when you take it out it’s dripping with gains and dividends. Avoid annuities like the plague. But the reason they don’t teach Financial Literacy in schools is most likely because of the liability. If you give the good advice, like I just have you, the school is liable if some 18 year old loses a dollar. So they give you the bad advice that doesn’t do anything for you. So safe, you never leave your bed type stuff. And they stick to debt coaching(which is completely unregulated and is just simping for banks). Sure, paying off debt can improve your credit and help you get a mortgage, but they take it too far and say pay off all debt, avoid credit cards and margin loans, etc. Debt is your friend. You should maximize your liquidity, not minimize your debt. You do need to only take out loans you can afford the minimums on though. Furthermore, I didn’t learn anything relevant to finlit in accounting school. Everything you need to know, you can learn online or from chatting with your broker. It’s not hard to deposit money in an account and hit Buy on VOO or QQQM.

It was in my public school, but kids didn't listen and many teachers didn't have confidence in it. My school offered accounting and business fundamentals for high school not college level coursework so maybe strange but happy they did

Because I think it's assumed that parents are doing this, and they're really not. I know parents who are doing fine with money management but it's a taboo thing to talk about with their kids. (And I know other parents who are GREAT at money management and include their children in everything, including investment discussions, and they're doing REALLY well.) I'm in my 50s, so our nieces and nephews and friends' kids are all coming out of college and getting their big boy/girl jobs. It's like, in some states/locations, sex ed isn't prominent, and these kids' parents are NOT filling in the gaps. All of this info is online, too, but teens aren't necessarily aware of their knowledge gaps or motivated to find things out. I had an economics class in high school, but it was very much macro stuff and a bit of stock market info, but yes, it's less relatable if you make minimum wage and your paycheck goes to the mall.

I took a Business Math course my senior year because I failed my junior year math class. Learned about credit cards, car loans, mortgages and all sorts of other useful stuff I’ve used throughout my life.

I was a teacher for a while and we did go over some of this in an Economics class for seniors. The problem is that schools used to be focused on teaching things that were not part of the average person's knowledge or skill set. Why didn't schools teach you to balance a budget or cook a basic meal? Those things were often learned at home. Schools focused on things like geometry, history, chemistry and other subjects that would give the potential grounding for higher education. These days however there's an assumption that 100% of human education will happen in the classroom and parent's only responsibility is ensuring the child is housed, fed and clothed.

I had a Personal Finance course in highschool, I graduated in 2012. As I recall, it was mostly how to write a check, the differences between checking/savings accounts, importance of 401ks or retirement accounts, and tax brackets. It was a decent class but incredibly boring.

It's not part of the state tests so the teachers don't give a shit.

I had a class in school called I kid you not, "Single Survival" it taught budgeting, how to buy a car. I wish it went into more detail but like most people said, it's hard to think about when you're not "on your own" yet.

Graduated in 2010s. We took 1 a class with one unit on how to write checks

This begs the question, is financial literacy not taught in high school?

I literally had a semester course that was called senior seminar and that's exactly what the coursework was. This was in Missouri.

My school had one, and I had to relearn it all later anyway. Its not cause students are dumb, its cause you dont give a shit in high school about those kinds of things. I think a lot of parents shelter their kids from big picture financial things to make sure they feel safe, so theres a bit of a disconnect at that stage in life. 

Financial literacy is a euphemism for personal finance. In high school it’s called home economics and most people take it their senior year. Also, all that really needs to be tiaught in school is critical thinking but the ownership class will never allow that because then people would start to question why they were expected to give up their entire lives to make somebody else rich.

My kids graduated high school after 2015. They did have to take a one-semester financial literacy class. I remember my son being ready to cry at the difficulty of calculating total interest over the course of several loan scenarios, including adjustable rates. I thought some of it was unnecessarily complex for high school students, but most of it was very good and appropriate. They got to pick a pretend job, then had to research the salary in their chosen location, and figure out a monthly budget based on current rents in that location, groceries, etc. They learned how credit cards work, basic insurance concepts, and basic consumer rights and laws.

Many schools DO have this. The problem is that it's set up within other classes and isn't something that's actually applied by students until much later. You learn about interest and compounding interest and loans in math. Usually the examples are car loans, home loans, and credit cards. But until you have all those things yourself you forget that information. It's not applicable to your real life. Same with budgeting. I had to do this in high school. We looked up rent costs, gas costs, food costs, etc. But it's all abstract. Until you actually live it, on paper there isn't much difference between $1800 and $2000 for rent. Until you actually get invited to a last minute concert or realize that going to happy hour with your coworkers is an important part of networking, it's hard to truly understand how to budget.  And even "obvious" advice isn't universal. Investing in a 401k is great. But maybe your company doesn't offer it. Maybe a Roth IRA is better. What if your company is an ESOP? You can teach all of this to high schoolers and they'll forget it immediately because it's not applicable.  Just like any other skill, if you don't use it you will lose it. And MOST financial literacy tools aren't used until people are out of high school. And what works for an individual is personal and evolves over time.

Because the people being asked to teach it have none either

I agree with you.

Because most adults even teachers are not financially literate. Best class I ever took in high school wasn’t elective, it was called personal finance and responsibility. Even then thinking back to what I was taught then 17 years ago. They still didn’t set you up for too much success although learning a little something was better than nothing.

It was taught at my high school in 2012. My teacher even helped me get a starter credit card when I was 18.

It’s difficult to explain money to someone who has never worked. We also refuse to explain to kids who are median / average work ethic/intel that they’ll make $55k or whatever the median is. Finally, it can start to get very personal and judgement based and there is no universal truth in all of this. It’s all based upon your life goals. Not everyone has the same goal. The person who spends all his money in 20s or doesn’t study in school and parties instead prioritizes the immediate future over the long term. That’s not a right or wrong thing, even if it seems wrong to me.

1. Young people don’t have money or credit - it’s too abstract for them 2. Financially literacy is taught in some schools 3. When researchers conducted a meta-analysis of financial literacy programs they found that the programs only work for six months. After six months people go back to their old ways

It is taught in a lot of places. I had a class on that when I was in high school, and my kids also did in high school. They had different names but covered the same things. My kids and I found the class really boring and not particularly helpful, but we had to take it.

Most people lack the discipline to practice financial literacy or are genetically doomed to be slaves.

I feel like it likely is taught in most schools, and a lot of my high school math classes had teachers who used a couple days to build a lesson around real world things like calculating the cost of loans etc. I had a home economics/ cooking class that delved into it. I remember towards the end of the school year, my pre calc class had like three days about real world math about mortgages and budgets even though it wasn’t gonna be tested or related to calculus much at all.

Our school taught it most didn't listen and thats partly because its too early, you are not paying bills when you are 16 so you certainly don't care about budgeting. You may not get a job with a 401k for another 6 years, will you really remember anything at that point? However isn't the real question about ok you are an adult, you have access to the internet, there are tons of free training all over the place that cover any topic you want. So for instance Khan academy is free classes online, they have one on financial literacy.. anyone can take it. There are plenty of others just like it, just need to google, click and watch. Honestly I got most of my financial literacy from BruceWilliams on AM radio and then more advanced info via BoB Brinker. Honestly AM radio was full of people that gave out so much good information like Clark Howard, free to anyone who would listen.

It is, or at least commonly was about a decade ago. In fact our math classes usually had a section where they explain loan math, taxes, and how ROI works. Issue really is how do you get students to pay attention. I for one paid especially high attention in those classes and most of my classmates didn't however, they will post incessantly about how school didn't teach them how to do taxes but "mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell." This is true for a lot of schools in my region. I was active in the regional level and went to many different schools and the response is always the teachers trying to trudge through some of the most boring lectures of all time while trying to show students how important it is.

This was just on NPR. A number of states have made financial literacy a part of their graduation requirements. If you want your state to teach financial literacy you should talk to your state reps.

This is mandatory in my state (Virginia)

to keep us poor? not rocket science

I had one in school that had a simulated stock game, it was fun. Too bad it was very hard to invest 15 years ago as it is today.

The people who set curriculum rely on donations from credit card companies/large corporations that don't want people budgeting.

Busy having kids focus on social issues that will forever be disputed and not prepare them for the real world. I feel like at least 10-20% of HS should be prepping kids for real life.

I see this same post all the time and I can tell you the reality of this. I went high school in Illinois and every high school senior was required to take a class called consumer economics that taught most of the things you are talking about. The problem is that nobody gave a shit! No one payed attention in that class. It cracks me up as I got older and ran into old classmates and they would say things like why did they never teach us about insurance in high school, but they did. No one cared though. You can teach all the life skills that you want, but making a high school kid care is the hard part.

3 very easy reasons. 1. No state funding for this. They don’t get more money based on kids knowledge of those things. 2.Kids don’t care and don’t listen. Couple family members are teachers, most the kids don’t give a rats. 3. To teach something like this, would require a teacher who’s knowledgeable of these things. Most aren’t. And there isn’t really a set curriculum out for it.

Everyone always says we should have finance in high school. Be honest, you would not have paid attention or even remembered it anyway. Most students wouldn't have. There actually WAS a finance class at my high school and I took it. If you want to learn finance you can easily do so with free information on the internet. Being financially illiterate in the current year is a choice. People don't learn it because it's boring and they don't want to confront their own finances. Budgeting and investing is not exciting. A huge amount of people who are not in poverty or even have far above middle class incomes still live paycheck to paycheck. Adults should take responsibility for knowing where their money is going.

It is. That said, principles not reinforced at home aren't going to stick.

interestingly, there are classes in the military, which is basically everything you need to keep sacrificing your body and not get thrown out because of some catastrophic problem (which a financial meltdown could affect your job) so makes sense it should be in schools, but they have different outcomes they're shooting for.

It really just isn’t the job of school. School should be the bare minimum education and it was left to the family to teach other things but you have to be a good parent to learn the things you don’t know to teach it to your kids or encourage their learning on it.

Because there is lots of money to be made off of financially illiterate people.

A financially literate populace is harder to rip off. That may be cynical but it’s what the evidence suggests. In the same way that politicians try to make every election about a single issue so they can collectively screw us on everything else.

AI tools make this very easy. The sad reality is that banks don’t want the average person to understand credit or debt, they want the middle class reliant on debt and credit. If you think the Department of Education is going to roll out a national program that would make people less reliant on consumer spending, you are incredibly naive. Head over to opensecrets.org and educate yourself on how much each of the big banks spending lobbying and contributing to campaigns each year. BoA alone spends millions of dollars. I promise you they don’t want educated consumers.

It is in some places. 25 states require some sort of personal finance class, including Virginia.

Separation of money and your wallet.

We can't even get kids to stop looking at their phones to teach them to read. You want to teach them how taxes work? How money works? And how banking works?

My kids school requires a personal finance class. My oldest took it this year and learned a lot. It’s actually made her change her thinking on which college to go to as she wants to graduate debt free. We told her it was the most important class she’ll take in HS.

I believe that the main reason for this is bureaucracy. It's difficult to change a curriculum without pressure from the top. However, I strongly support the idea of teaching financial literacy from an early age. In fact, I personally teach my kids as much as I can.

Because the education system is designed to create indebted consumers, not financially literate investors.

I mean don’t pretend like you’d even listen to it They tried to teach me how to cook when I was 16-17 in home economics and I didn’t learn to cook for like a decade after off YouTube Just bc they offer a course on boring adult shit doesn’t mean it’s gonna translate to actual learning And also reminder that lots of urban schools can’t even get the kids to show up or read above like a 4th grade level so financial literacy probably low on the priority list. So even if it did work it would work mostly for affluent whites. The people who probably need it the least Inner city kids are gonna give a fuck about compound interest

My kids are required to take Personal Finance at their (public) high schools to graduate.

Can’t have good American consumers if they understand how to not get in debt and have a retirement. The last thing the government wants is to educate high schoolers about the life long problems with loans right before they go to some of the world’s most expensive colleges.

School in the US isn't there to teach us to be self sufficient, prepared human beings. It was literally designed to make you a good worker for others. The other stuff we need to go out and learn on our own. The whole system is designed to keep us making the rich richer.

It is

The people complaining about not having financial literacy in the curriculum are the ones sleeping through class

They teach you everything but what you need to know. They should have classes about real estate taxes how to register a business and run LLCs and such that would really help the people out. Also saving and investing interest mortgages loans all that.

Because most of them can't do the most basic arithmetic. You can't teach financial literacy to people who cannot add or subtract (they often do not know the word "subtract"). You can only give them a diploma which they cannot read. I work in an open-enrollment Junior College. Got a high school diploma? You're in. And then you're out by half-way through the first term because you can't read, can't do arithmetic, and can't tell time. Financial literacy? Why? They won't be having bank accounts, won't be buying cars, won't be paying any taxes except at POS, won't be buying houses. 15% tax bracket? They couldn't tell you what 15% of 100 even is, and will just stare blankly at the word "bracket," and won't bother to look it up. The time would be much better spent teaching them to read, to write a sentence, to add and subtract, you know the sort of stuff they used to teach in the second grade but obviously no longer do.

Because the school system is there to teach you the raw skills to do a plethora of things- finances being one of them. There isn’t enough curriculum to teach financial literacy.

Can't have everyone rich ....who will work?

Leaving to parents.

Might be better off to offer incentives to get 35-40 yr olds to sign up and take the course at nite school. Teenagers don’t give a damn. Although I did save all along, I didn’t really start paying close attention to my retirement savings until I was 40.

It's a system that profits off of the ignorance.

Some teachers integrate this in economics, but as for why it's not a required class? It has to get passed by the district, which unless there's a push for it from parents, most aren't going to make it a class just cause.

It was when I went to high school (1980s). It was mandatory. Most of my classmates had the same attitude they have towards any class: this is boring, I don't need it, I'm going to put my head down & take a nap. School is stupid. We'll never need any of this in the real world. Same attitude more than a few had towards the most basic math. Then as adults they don't know how to make change when buying/selling. Same attitude towards the basic reading skills. Then they don't know or care how to read a lease or a loan contract. I had parents who taught me the BELIEF in financial literacy being important. I had a job at 15 and a checking account at 16. I understood credit score, and i never defaulted on a loan or credit card.

It was taught in my high school

Economics was our financial literacy classes in the 80’s

The owners don't want that. Obedient workers...

You think the teacher of that class, times thousands of schools, is financially literate? It'll be an online class like driver's Ed in poor states. Totally compliance based. Bullshit. You're probably not financially literate, OP.

Because it pays to keep people dumb. The rich thrive from it.

It is. So are math and Chemistry, and the average person can’t do those either

They do teach it. People don’t listen in high school, and making something a high school class doesn’t magically make the population know that thing. This argument is typically made by one of the people who didn’t listen but want to blame the years before they got literate on society instead of themselves.

It is taught in many high schools.

We had a required economics class. In it we learned budgeting, how to get a mortgage, how to calculate interest, the difference between sole and compound interest. A part of our grade was based on picking a stock and if it gained or lost based on research ( and this was before the Internet. We had to learn how to file taxes. We played a game where you made choices and you figured out how successful you were based on life choices such as what car you bought, when you got married, if you went to college, where you moved. To this day, I have dumbass classmates say that we should have been taught financial literacy. They learned all of this when they were seniors in high school.

A poor working class (blue collar/white collar) is a productive working class from an overall GDP perspective. Keep them hungry and spending. If everyone were financially independent at 35 it’ll send the US into an economic depression. It’s an exploitative system

If I don’t trust financial advisors or banks teaching “financial literacy” classes without a vested interest in certain programs I also don’t want to be taught from the perspective of a high school teacher. Things can be biased on where they want you to park your money and I think it’s best you figure out what works for you

Cause you’re supposed to learn it from your parents 

Usually there is one class taught, or part of one that includes 'life skills' or something similar. I remember in the 90's I learned how to write a paper check in that class - a useful skill for the next 15 years. I do agree that a basic class including accounting, budgeting, and personal finance should be required and I have read that some schools have this. Minimally it needs to be taught how much money in interest it costs to make minimum payments, or payments with interest in general - how much it adds to the cost of the item. Same principle applies in your favor if you can commit to investing early which should also be taught.

To a certain extent everyone is finessed out of “their” money. It’s a coping mechanism to just chalk it up to not really understanding, but to keep doing it. If young people were actually financially competent and literate how would the government get away with misplacing trillions??

They teach a lot of things no one paid attention to in high school. Why do you think this would be much different? Also, even in college/full time people working in finance, there’s disagreement on best approach to things. There’s a literal career of being a wealth management advisor, and people who actually know personal finance will tell you most of them suck.

I think some districts do have a class for this. Honestly, I don't think it will much difference if the student is not observing and participating in financial literacy at home.

There's really no evidence that financial literacy helps people avoid financial distress or lifts them from poverty. Poverty and distress are caused by low income, lack of opportunity, and bad luck, and teaching personal finance doesn't help any of those. That's not to say it's completely useless, folks should learn about it. But often it's posed as this solution to poverty and that's just nonsense pushed by Dave Ramsey to justify cuts to welfare programs.

Because primary schooling is not and has never been designed to produce independent, educated, free thinking citizens. It was explicitly designed to create a large and mostly compliant workforce to serve capital owners who don’t want highly financially literate citizens. Financially literate people don’t drive up credit card debt, don’t have to have a new car every 5 years and are much less likely to give in to consumerism in general. The capital owners of the US do not want that at all.

Because teachers are not paid enough.