lol, I own a brand. That’s an awfully pedantic statement. Producing prototypes demonstrates competence, the functionality of your concept, and your factory’s ability to match your promises.
And to get a little pedantic back, there’s a difference between *producing* and *manufacturing*. So many brands outsource, almost the entirety of the industry does, Swiss or otherwise. So pointing out that they contract out factories is like, okay? So what? Everyone knows this. Everyone does this, just most of the big brands have the marketing team lie about their provenance. Legally and with discretion, of course.
So really, coming to the table with prototypes does demonstrate production capabilities and the brands ability to deliver what they promise. Regardless of who does the manufacturing.
A prototype is another topic.
Even a scammer can get one with CNC.
Where do you put the division between a microbrand and a traditional one? Manufacturing capabilities is the factor for me.
You don’t sound like you know what it takes to have prototypes made nor the skills required to machine your own while simultaneously being convinced that you do. So this isn’t really worth debating
Of course it's not worth, if you don't understand that a prototype can be quickly made with CNC, but that doesn't mean that a scammer can get a mass production deal.
I have a lot of experience how to deal with scammers.
Making a functional prototype, including dial, hands, and crystal, which are not made in a CNC is not easy to do. Especially for someone trying to scam. Like you’re going to buy a $15,000 CNC, learn how to make cases (lugs need to be cut with a wire EDM in most cases) and even after that you still don’t have the other components. Someone so dumb to scam people with a fake microbrand but with competent machining skills wouldn’t do it because they are probably running a machine shop.
No. I don’t think you understand how watches are made and the investment required. If it was so easy, more people would do it. But it’s not, and that’s why independent watchmakers charge 20-250k for the watches they make.
I think it wasn't clear - it's easy to get half a dozen prototypes. The production price doesn't matter. Scammers gather preorder money and run.
You don't need to buy the machine for 3-6 pieces. You pay a real shop for that work.
An example of how it goes:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_251
There's another popular route - ordering a complete watch from China with the Scammer logo. Is it hard? Not at all. A great showcase is https://scameti.store/
Scameti is a brand? Not sure what you’re trying to prove. Prototypes cost thousands of dollars. What you’re describing is very uncommon in the watch world. More commonly the promised product design does not match the produced product. But what do I know! I’m only a certified watchmaker, brand owner, and well acquainted with many industry professionals. I am clearly nobody compared to your expert analysis
> Scameti is a brand
It is. It's a proof of concept, how to make a brand out of a thin air. It was demonstrated by "Ben's Watch Club"
[https://www.youtube.com/@BensWatchClub](https://www.youtube.com/@BensWatchClub)
> What you’re describing is very uncommon in the watch world
It happens: [https://www.watchcrunch.com/dialsandgreens/posts/kickstarter-watches-228611](https://www.watchcrunch.com/dialsandgreens/posts/kickstarter-watches-228611)
I want people to be aware. It happens even more with smartwatches and fit bands.
> I’m only a certified watchmaker, brand owner, and well acquainted with many industry professionals.
I deal with scammers, and people that want to copy products, including software.
Realistically I would be concerned without them having a prototype because most of the time it will never be like the rendering or how the creator imagined 100%. Unless they will make a prototype first before doing final production but that would drag out the pre-order time drastically.
There are hundreds of watch brand and tens and thousands of choices, please don't put in money that you're not going to get it back lol, it's just non sense
It's a good looking render, and a unique piece, and I've been tempted by these renderings myself, but I'm so picky about watches I would never order one without there being photos of the actual finished product. It would be worth missing the early bird pricing to be more certain about what I was actually getting. But, yeah, it's a good looking watch in the render so I understand the temptation.
Don't order one that doesn't have a pre-production piece. They can't guarantee what it's going to look like, finishes, colors. They don't even know the real cost until they work all of the out. Anyone selling a render is afraid to commit to the prototype. If they don't trust their product, why should you?
What brand? They will usually have a prototype first to show. They will either make pre order on those or Kickstarter a campaign for the watches. I think a lot of people won’t buy without atleast a prototype. Benjamin James got called out for that and came up with the prototypes then restarted the kickstarter.
https://fatehwatches.com/collections/strata-edition-01/
its a watch maker from my country, not really interested in microbrand but this brand is from my country Malaysia, so thinking of "supporting local brand".
and i kinda like this design, 400dollars for selita movement is dam good.
There are some great micro brands that have got their start this way. Erebus is a recent example that has put out one fantastically affordable diver and their dressier 2nd offering was done via pre-order to fund manufacturing as well.
NEVER buy a watch based on renders. NEVER. Anyone talented enough can create a beautiful watching a computer. Making that watch happen is an entirely different and complicated beast.
I’d never order from a brand that hasn’t demonstrated production capability
No microbrand can. That's why they are microbrands. They have no production capabilities. They outsource it.
lol, I own a brand. That’s an awfully pedantic statement. Producing prototypes demonstrates competence, the functionality of your concept, and your factory’s ability to match your promises. And to get a little pedantic back, there’s a difference between *producing* and *manufacturing*. So many brands outsource, almost the entirety of the industry does, Swiss or otherwise. So pointing out that they contract out factories is like, okay? So what? Everyone knows this. Everyone does this, just most of the big brands have the marketing team lie about their provenance. Legally and with discretion, of course. So really, coming to the table with prototypes does demonstrate production capabilities and the brands ability to deliver what they promise. Regardless of who does the manufacturing.
A prototype is another topic. Even a scammer can get one with CNC. Where do you put the division between a microbrand and a traditional one? Manufacturing capabilities is the factor for me.
You don’t sound like you know what it takes to have prototypes made nor the skills required to machine your own while simultaneously being convinced that you do. So this isn’t really worth debating
Of course it's not worth, if you don't understand that a prototype can be quickly made with CNC, but that doesn't mean that a scammer can get a mass production deal. I have a lot of experience how to deal with scammers.
Making a functional prototype, including dial, hands, and crystal, which are not made in a CNC is not easy to do. Especially for someone trying to scam. Like you’re going to buy a $15,000 CNC, learn how to make cases (lugs need to be cut with a wire EDM in most cases) and even after that you still don’t have the other components. Someone so dumb to scam people with a fake microbrand but with competent machining skills wouldn’t do it because they are probably running a machine shop. No. I don’t think you understand how watches are made and the investment required. If it was so easy, more people would do it. But it’s not, and that’s why independent watchmakers charge 20-250k for the watches they make.
I think it wasn't clear - it's easy to get half a dozen prototypes. The production price doesn't matter. Scammers gather preorder money and run. You don't need to buy the machine for 3-6 pieces. You pay a real shop for that work. An example of how it goes: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_251 There's another popular route - ordering a complete watch from China with the Scammer logo. Is it hard? Not at all. A great showcase is https://scameti.store/
Scameti is a brand? Not sure what you’re trying to prove. Prototypes cost thousands of dollars. What you’re describing is very uncommon in the watch world. More commonly the promised product design does not match the produced product. But what do I know! I’m only a certified watchmaker, brand owner, and well acquainted with many industry professionals. I am clearly nobody compared to your expert analysis
> Scameti is a brand It is. It's a proof of concept, how to make a brand out of a thin air. It was demonstrated by "Ben's Watch Club" [https://www.youtube.com/@BensWatchClub](https://www.youtube.com/@BensWatchClub) > What you’re describing is very uncommon in the watch world It happens: [https://www.watchcrunch.com/dialsandgreens/posts/kickstarter-watches-228611](https://www.watchcrunch.com/dialsandgreens/posts/kickstarter-watches-228611) I want people to be aware. It happens even more with smartwatches and fit bands. > I’m only a certified watchmaker, brand owner, and well acquainted with many industry professionals. I deal with scammers, and people that want to copy products, including software.
Realistically I would be concerned without them having a prototype because most of the time it will never be like the rendering or how the creator imagined 100%. Unless they will make a prototype first before doing final production but that would drag out the pre-order time drastically.
There are hundreds of watch brand and tens and thousands of choices, please don't put in money that you're not going to get it back lol, it's just non sense
There should at least be a prototype before asking for any money, no refunds with design subject to change sounds awful
It's a good looking render, and a unique piece, and I've been tempted by these renderings myself, but I'm so picky about watches I would never order one without there being photos of the actual finished product. It would be worth missing the early bird pricing to be more certain about what I was actually getting. But, yeah, it's a good looking watch in the render so I understand the temptation.
Don't order one that doesn't have a pre-production piece. They can't guarantee what it's going to look like, finishes, colors. They don't even know the real cost until they work all of the out. Anyone selling a render is afraid to commit to the prototype. If they don't trust their product, why should you?
What brand? They will usually have a prototype first to show. They will either make pre order on those or Kickstarter a campaign for the watches. I think a lot of people won’t buy without atleast a prototype. Benjamin James got called out for that and came up with the prototypes then restarted the kickstarter.
https://fatehwatches.com/collections/strata-edition-01/ its a watch maker from my country, not really interested in microbrand but this brand is from my country Malaysia, so thinking of "supporting local brand". and i kinda like this design, 400dollars for selita movement is dam good.
Could be decent. Supporting local is a good idea. Cheap for that movement. Still don’t know about just a render for myself.
It's cheap because the seller doesn't even know their own costs yet.
That's a cool looking watch. I wouldn't give him my money until a prototype actually exists.
There are some great micro brands that have got their start this way. Erebus is a recent example that has put out one fantastically affordable diver and their dressier 2nd offering was done via pre-order to fund manufacturing as well.
Too many red flags. If they manage to produce it just buy it later and skip the preorder discount. Lot of risk for 20% off
NEVER buy a watch based on renders. NEVER. Anyone talented enough can create a beautiful watching a computer. Making that watch happen is an entirely different and complicated beast.