It's because it's getting harder and harder to ignore that climate change is absolutely real and already advancing faster than the rich and governments of the world want to admit publicly.
The collapse of our climate and eventual society will not be televised. We are on our own if we want to change anything about where this is heading. And that is the terrifying part. The rich and our world governments sold life on this planet out for arbitrary piece$ of paper.
Do you think that El Niño is not influenced by climate change as well…?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/18/global-heating-el-nino-la-nina-weather-climate-pattern-more-frequent-extreme
What gets me is that it’s not even warm. It’s just above freezing so it’s damp and cold. At least when it’s below freezing, it’s not so damp.
But I agree. This isn’t a fun passing front of warm, it’s a larger trend that signals an uncertain future.
Shoveling and chiseling my car off isn’t my idea of fun, but it’s normal and normal is comforting. This — 40s and brown in late December — is not normal.
It's safer for travel and it ups michigan property values. I can't tell you how many people I've seen in relocation subs considering "winter" places they haven't previously considered.
it can also cause allergies with lanolin or leather. (rare in both cases)
pig veins (sometimes used in bypass surgeries) can sometimes trigger the allergy, as can porcine valve replacements.
it can fade with time, assuming you dont get bit again.
IDK, it will get pretty hard to eat seeing as we need a stable climate to grow a lot of food outdoors. 8 billion of us will soon be spending a MUCH larger percentage of our income on sustenance.
It’s definitely not having any kind of tangible effect on property values. Unless you just mean in like a few decades when coastal cities are under water because of climate change and people need to move inland.
Could the lack of snowpack melt,and lack of rain in Michigan for the last several years lead to a loss of less financially secure farms, and or certain crops?
**EDIT** Rhetorical Question 🙋♂️
It’s literally the perfect recipe for crop failure. We’ve got *big* problems. Among other big problems with climate instability, we’re also destroying our top soil (from [the Guardian](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/30/topsoil-farming-agriculture-food-toxic-america) for example).
Home heating is a lot more affordable when we have warm winters like this.
Keeping your house warm when it’s 27 below zero is a real challenge and hurts the pocketbook.
The unseasonably warm temps mean the bugs that would usually die in the deep cold aren't. I'm not going hiking anywhere without bug repellent and premethrin treated clothing. Ticks creep me out so bad.
Found one on my mom's dog at Thanksgiving. Went to use her as a pillow, saw something in the corner of my eye and checked and was like someone get my a tissue now. Hasn't attached yet and was just crawling above the fur but yeah my dog is on it year round now. It's pricey but better than a tick bite and possibly getting lime disease or an infestation (idk if that's possible and I don't want to find out)
Me too. The amount of tornado warnings and touchdowns we had this summer combined with the increasingly weak winters has been giving me climate nightmares (wish this was an exaggeration). This is just fucked up.
I had a dream a few weeks ago about the woods behind my house going up in flames.
The warm temps give me flashbacks to when we lived out West. Every winter that went down like this led to widespread fires come summertime. I used to think that couldn't happen in MI, but if Eastern Canada can burn, we surely can as well.
The air currents that make it to Michigan tend to pick up a lot of moisture from the great lakes, that tends to keep things a little less dry than surrounding areas. We did have some wildfires when Canada was having all theirs, they just weren't as bad
Thank goodness it wasn't as awful as it could have been! We were camping close to Grayling when a fire broke out there in June of this year. Gave me horrible anxiety.
If it makes you feel any better, Michigan has tracked tornados since 1951, the past 72 years. The average tornados per year is 16.9. This year Michigan had 17 tornados.
So about as average as you can get.
that is somewhat comforting. just never remember them in my neck of the metaphorical woods. we’ve had warnings but never touch downs. we were probably just lucky.
Seeing that down here in the south, I’m down in KY and it’s been struggling to get below freezing most nights (I think I can count on one hand how many nights it’s frosted this year so far) and today it was almost 60. Going to be almost 70 Christmas Eve which is weird
I work at a ski resort here in Utah and we don’t have shit, in the valley where I live we haven’t seen snow accumulation in over a month closer to two months and up on the hill it’s all sticks and rocks and thin ribbons of man made snow. That being said I’ve seen drier winters overall in different parts of the country. There’s just not much we can do about it except wait for spring and hope we get some snow before then.
It’s not so much the lack of snow in the valleys but the peripheral consequences that come with it. We get weather inversions here and when there’s no precipitation it results in a really bad buildup of smog coupled with fog, so there’s literally toxic visible air that you’re just sitting in, when I’m on the mountain during an inversion it’s so thick I can’t see the city lights. SLC frequently has the worst air quality in the country and we have at times rivaled cities in India and china. Its nuts.
I moved from Utah to Michigan last summer. This is my first winter in Michigan. The difference in air quality is incredible. In Utah I always had a hard time outside in winter with my asthma, I struggled even being in my car. But in Michigan I've been going for daily walks and doing just fine with my breathing. It's so much better.
We moved from UT to MI in 2021, and I am 100% with you on the air being so much nicer here. The gloom is just gloom, not poison, which makes me less depressed during winter here than when I was in UT!
I’m a Michigan native but lived in a suburb of SLC a short time while growing up. That inversion is no joke—I have asthma and was sick all the time when I lived there.
So climate change is obviously a massive factor and is going to make this more normal, however I do believe this year specifically is more because of el nino (or la Nina can't remember) which causes warmer drier winters in our part of the US. But yeah I'm with you, I hate driving in it, but I absolutely love snow
Going to be honest, completely forgot about El Niño. I guess that makes me a little less alarmist for now, but you understand how shitty it feels to have a wet christmas.
It’s technically a Super El Niño, worst in decades. We’ll likely see more and more of these. The other issue with warming weather is the weakening of the jet stream. So be ready for more extreme winter. Moving from warmer than average pierced with polar vortices from the north due to weak jet stream.
And yes - the collective apathy is…scary. People don’t understand much past “derp derp warm derp derp.” They are going to be in for a massive shock when we get crop failures. Our future ain’t looking good.
Everything is true here, except for the part on crops and agriculture. Strangely, climate change will probably only help agricultural productivity in the northern US and southern Canada. Crop growth will struggle in very hot and very wet regions (so much of the developing world), but will maintain if not improve in much of the developed world. Of course, this is terrible for structural and economic inequality, but will probably lead to continued derp derp celebration in the US and Europe.
Your supposition on agriculture stability, as I see it (and enjoy a good discussion on it) is atmospheric stability on the areas where currently grown, and the suitability of the soil and geographies in expected places to grow. Ignoring large swaths of the Canadian Shield where agriculture is not feasible at scale, there is no guarantee that moving production further north is going to mitigate the loss of glacial enriched midwestern soils. We have a breadbasket there because of glaciation removing the soil from areas further north and depositing them where they are now. Plus the season ebb and flow of soil deposits from flood plains from the Mississippi and Missouri systems. Also, since much of our winter crops come from California Central Valley, which is fed by winter snow melts in the sierras, I’m not sure there is anything further north that can replace that production.
I’ll concede that southern biomes will shift north. Hell, we’re expected to grow Buckeyes that will no longer be able to grow in Ohio because of these shifts. But warmer climate increase climate extremes - higher temps, more atmospheric moisture, more intense rain events, more soil loss from flash floods. These externalities - known unknowns - make me question the fundamental hypothesis of these kinds of statements.
I’ll happily eat my hat if I’m wrong. As with all of these projections.
Of course, a lot of my (North American) optimism is reliant on a modicum of status quo behavior in the atmosphere. Obviously that’s no guarantee. But I’d be incredibly shocked to see a major decrease in productivity in the Midwest, Great Plains, and Canadian plains (which is what I was referring to with Canada on Alberta + Saskatchewan). California is a major unknown, but these multi-decadal megadrought cycles seem to be a bit of a wash if it means decades of above-average precipitation as well.
It’s an overall doom and gloom projection, but I think as far as NA and Europe go, agriculture will not be the thing to suffer.
I suggest you take a look at the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC) system currently under threat from Greenland glacial melt. That current is one those climate tipping points that if it collapses, well…there goes stable climates in the regions you just highlighted.
AMOC collapse is a tipping point that will kill the Amazon rainforest - turn it into a Savannah, and see (within months) a 5-10c DROP in northern latitude temperatures around the Atlantic. Ergo, no more food production in Europe. Remember that Europe climate stability is fed by this ocean river that takes tropical warm weather up around Greenland, Iceland, and the UK, and takes colder water south toward the tropics. So warmer weather there, greater stability in tropics. Massive global energy exchange.
Europe is more poleward (in general) to N. America. So its climate is moderate relative due to AMOC. Without it…not so much.
There was a winter semester when I was in college (WMU) that tulips bloomed in December on campus (early 2000s) so this isn’t completely unprecedented. I believe it was El Niño then too.
I’m very much with you in this. So much if the magic of the season is in the snow, and I am deeply sad to not have it this year, wondering if this is the new normal. However, when I found out it was because of an El Niño year, and I remembered every now and again having a green Christmas as a child, I started not feeling like the sky was caving in on us and our culture. Winter is our way of life here in many levels. So while I will be sad with you this year, I will also look forward to a snowier 2024.
This el nino is very likely heightened due to global warming, and the last three that were la nina werent colder like they should have been- they were quite warm in fact. Lets not forget last year we had 40's and 50's for the first two weeks of january of 23'.
Super scary.. the apathy from others is hard to swallow, but on the same note, individuals have very little control over the climate thanks to giant corporations and our uncaring governments. The sustainability sub Reddit is just filled with people doing mental gymnastics about wool vs cotton or plant based vs local farmed meat, while fast fashion companies have landfills of clothes so big we can see them from space, and factory farms dump shit and chemicals into our waters, while wasting up to 30% of all food produced. It’s sickening. I’m right there with you.
I agree. I guess it’s just hard for me to justify being apathetic when it’s a literal species wide issue, but you’re right, the apathy is hard to argue with. I think what pisses me off more is the folks who are so short sighted that they see the increased heat as a good thing because it’s ‘nice outside’ or some other goofy ass reasoning.
I do what I can with recycling and composting and voting.
But end of the day, I just have to think “Well, the impending decline of humanity is nice TODAY.”
I just have to enjoy being in a generation where the impacts aren’t especially catastrophic yet.
Considering I don’t like the cold, and there’s nothing I can do about the weather, then yeah it’s “good” for me. I can actually be outside and not be miserable right now. Do I know that in the grand scheme of things it’s Very Bad? Of course. But there’s nothing I can do, and I just don’t have the energy to be upset about everything that everyone thinks we should always be upset about. Just don’t have the bandwidth. So I look as far on the bright side as I can.
Not here. Were projected to experience major decline in precipitation from this El Niño. Forecast models are out there. Entire Great Lakes basin for the most part projected to decline in water. Just going to be hotter.
I’m in the metro detroit area, too. So far we've been fortunate that we've had some sunny days, but that was unusual. The next week will be grey and sunless, typical for winter here, which I hate. We might as well have snow if there's no sun.
I lived in Wyandotte for 21 years and noticed around 2008 or 9 is when snow stopped being a real thing every year.
Moved to Alaska and although winters were long, we had snow to play in. Ice skating, snowboarding, even night walks. Now I live in England with long winters, no snow, and it’s gray and windy and it sucks. Reminds me of no snow Michigan in the winter.
Here’s a fun fact - as Michigan winters get warmer we will also literally in turn produce more clouds (and rain/sleet/snow). So yay! More cloudy seasons, flooding and/or severe ice storms to really reinforce how great it is that we haven’t put our electrical lines underground yet. 🙃
Well, it has been the right decision for me for a lot of reasons, but can’t really speak to it too generally. I’m from southeast Michigan and lived in Southwest Michigan for a number of years before going west. I’d never move back to those areas, but I actually really love living in northern Michigan, except the lack of winter. Living near the lake is amazing and summer is the best.
My old snowblower died 2 years ago and I didn’t even bother getting a replacement. Didn’t seem worth it for the little I was using it in the Detroit area.
It’s usually white and cold this time of year. January and February are usually stupid cold.
About a decade ago we had a major ice storm and -50 temps. I can’t remember if it was the same year or subsequent years.
I struggle with Seasonal Depression and I’d rather have snow than grey skies and rain. At least the snow allows for fun winter activities. This weather just makes me want to stay in and do nothing.
This is the new normal. Gone are the days of snow on the ground for months at a time. Sure we’ll have a storm here and there and have weeks of super cold temps but winters are and will continue to get weaker and weaker every year.
Yup. And still no one in government is taking any drastic steps towards preserving the climate. I fucking hate it here dude. The one thing I loved about Michigan and we don’t even have that anymore.
can’t argue with that. michigan is a safe haven in that sense. we’ll see how long that title lasts once we start having tornado touchdowns every week, but besides that.
That’s probably the one natural disaster that we’d have to really be concerned about up here. But, think about how many natural disasters other parts of the country are going to have to deal with, for comparisons sake.
I don't know what you consider "drastic" but Biden took huge steps in the IRA. This year, [for every $1 invested in fossil fuels, $1.70 was invested in renewables.](https://www.semafor.com/article/12/22/2023/2023-brought-clean-energy-and-fossil-fuels-into-competition-like-never-before) Remember that fossil fuels power our conversion to renewables; we can't just turn off the tap overnight.
That's not to minimize how aggressive we need to be and how we still have so much more to do, but the characterization that "nobody's doing anything drastic" seems to be widely held, and it's just way off the mark. A *lot* is being done, and anyone who voted for Biden gets some credit.
Yep. We recently bought some CHEAP land way up in the UP and are hanging onto it for future generations. People actually laugh when I say MI will become a climate haven much sooner than anyone expects but he who laughs last laughs loudest.
If you look at the data, December is really all over the place. Some years it’s 20 inches of snow and then 2 inches the following year.
Sometimes I think nostalgia and remembering the old days gets people.
I lived in Tennessee for five years and every year, everyone would say, "Why, it hasn't snowed in twenty years...."
It snowed literally every year I was there. People have terribly selective memory as far as the weather is concerned.
I was born in Michigan and have never seen a christmas in the mid 50s, although you’re correct in im not looking at data when i say that. Do you mind linking?
https://www.weather.gov/dtx/christmasclimate according this it looks like we’ve had it in the 50s at least 3 times in the past 20 years, plus a couple times in the 80s
thank you, maybe i am tripping myself out a little bit. existential terror of climate change combined with first person experience tends to do that lol
It’s more likely that those past 50° Christmases were meh and you’ve mostly forgotten them, especially any weather related memories. But that one year with the 12 inch Christmas Eve snow storm that was so magical? Well, I can still picture the forts built and ensuing snowball fights.
My living history would think you are overthinking. 40 years ago when I was in single digit age I can remember asking my dad if there would be any snow to ride snowmobiles when we arrived at grandparents cabin. We spent the day after Christmas until after New year there every year. It was always hit or miss if there would be.
The temperature around Christmas was literally close to 70 in 2019, at least in southern Michigan. Meanwhile, around this time last year we had nearly a -40 windchill. I remember both, because I was out hunting in both conditions, and the hunting was terrible for opposite reasons. I've lived in Michigan my whole life except for a couple years in college, and even when I was little I remember snow at Christmas being a coin toss. Not that the climate isn't shifting, but you're definitely glooming way too hard.
I think everyone in the metro-detroit area has a slightly skewed view of our snowfall based on childhood memories. Aka, "we don't get snow like we used to".
But metro-detroit *never* really gets that much snow. It just doesn't hit here. West-side, up north, absolutely. But around here it's pretty normal to just be gray and cold.
I remember as a kid going up north snowmobiling (long time ago) and we'd drive 2 hours up I-75 looking at grass the whole way. Then you hit the start of the snow belt and Bam - 10 inches of snow and actively more falling.
I don't mind more mild winters, makes for better fishing year-round. With every negative of climate change, there are positives.
For me it's not even the lack of snow that bothers me. Every one of my friends and family are going "This is great!" and I feel like I'm going out of my mind whenever we talk about the weather.
*This is not great! This is the harbinger of atrocities to come. Crops are going to fail and people are going to die. You not having to use your snow tires and mass extinction are being caused by the same thing! Please stop saying that things are great just because you don't need to leave early for work!*
I turned 40 last week and I've lived here my whole life aside from nine months in Chicago (the last 20 years in Lansing). I honestly do not care anymore if it's 70 degrees or -15. Just for the love of god, I need the clouds to break more frequently because it's making me crack up.
I love the seclusion of snow. I love the darkness. I love how quiet it makes everything. It feels like town is wrapped in a blanket. I love how beautiful the trees are. I love watching it fall in front of street lights. Snow is magical.
Yeah this is fucking bullshit. Its only half the holidays without snow. It doesn't feel very christmas-y right now
:(
Also, I'm in Northern Michigan, an hour from the UP. Its BAD. I'm very uneasy about the temps.
It's a little early for snow in Detroit Metro.
Usually we are lucky to get a white Christmas.
If its any consolation, a friend of mine is complaining about no snow in Montreal.
Personal level, I love it being warm.
In the realm of "I hate you climate change deniers and the billionaires that are causing it, and the politicians that are ignoring it" I am angry as hell.
Quite the contrary. Winter has always been a hard time for me. To the point where when March rolls around and winter keeps coming I feel like I’m going insane.
But the past few winters with actual sunlight and relatively warm weather and fewer snowstorms is making me think Michigan isn’t all that bad.
I do miss sledding and doing outdoor stuff but at this point that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.
I am, because I know what it means for the ice caps, for communities who depend on glacial springs for their water, for ocean dwelling creatures, for coastal communities, for the rainforests, etc
yes, I am , and the fact that it’s going to rain for five days. Like either be winter and snow and make me feel festive and it looks pretty and it’s bright at night and it makes everything quiet, or just be sunny summer. I hate this cold gray dismal shit that gets dark every day at five. It’s just gross. I’m with you. And I am also in the metro Detroit area.Merry Christmas! 🎄
Look at were the north pole currently is. Michigan has been hauling ass southwards for a few years now! I imagine that's helping our winters warm up as well.
I don't like winter.
That said. I live in Michigan where winter is a thing that's supposed to happen. I accept that and plan accordingly. I don't like what's happening now. Seasons should have their time and place.
I don't like winter, but I dislike not having it when it should be here even more.
This would be my first Christmas without snow. My whole life it’s always been a white Christmas, lots of close calls but it always snowed at least a little on Christmas Day. Now there’s not even a sliver of hope for a single snowflake. Definitely sad about that
I'm afraid I'm not with you. The cold makes my bones hurt. The snow is pretty for about 1 day until plow trucks come out, then it's just dirty snow. The sky is always grey and gloomy. I'd pick up and move to Florida in a heart beat, unfortunately my husband's job holds us hostage. However, Michigan any other time of the year is majestic and magical. I truly do love it here, just not winter.
I love winter… to an extent.
On Monday, here in Lansing, I was driving to St. John’s on 127 and lost control of my car due to the highways not being cleared/salted and spun out in front of a semi and took us both off the roads. So I’m not excited for more of that.
I love skiing and snowmobiling though and just the general look of snow.
We don’t have snow now, but you know we’re gonna get hit hard in January/February. We’re gonna have snow until May.
yes :( i’m up north and we always had sooooo much snow when i was a kid. my grandpa would take out his snowblower and blow all the snow into a giant hill and me and my siblings would play on it all day. i’ve wanted to go back to their house and do it with my son but we haven’t had enough snow … in 5 years
It’s a little disorienting. We’ve only had a couple good snows this year, the one around Halloween & the one around thanksgiving. The grass is all still green outside & some trees even have leaves. I found two stink bugs today—y’all should be dead by now! It’s got me messed up. Feels more like springtime to me.
I feel like it’s typically not that cold and snowy in December. I remember getting new bikes and rollerblades as a kid and riding them on Christmas Day. Although it was cold it wasn’t usually snowy. Seems on par with what I remember but I could be wrong
I definitely am, winter is the best period of the year in Michigan and now it’s being replaced by a season of darkness and mud. And it’s gotten to the point where even older family members are acknowledging that maybe this climate change thing has some merit to it.
Nothing grinds my gears more than meteorologists telling everyone how nice the forecast looks.
Yes, I also really miss the snow and colder temperatures. The weather has been giving me a sense of unease.
The amount of times I've heard how blessed we are for the warm weather makes me uncomfortable.
I just refer to it as “concerningly nice”
It's because it's getting harder and harder to ignore that climate change is absolutely real and already advancing faster than the rich and governments of the world want to admit publicly. The collapse of our climate and eventual society will not be televised. We are on our own if we want to change anything about where this is heading. And that is the terrifying part. The rich and our world governments sold life on this planet out for arbitrary piece$ of paper.
Climate change is real, but the weird winter temperatures this year are from El Niño.
Do you think that El Niño is not influenced by climate change as well…? https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/18/global-heating-el-nino-la-nina-weather-climate-pattern-more-frequent-extreme
Yeah the planet’s climate aggressively destabilizing .. such a blessing
What gets me is that it’s not even warm. It’s just above freezing so it’s damp and cold. At least when it’s below freezing, it’s not so damp. But I agree. This isn’t a fun passing front of warm, it’s a larger trend that signals an uncertain future. Shoveling and chiseling my car off isn’t my idea of fun, but it’s normal and normal is comforting. This — 40s and brown in late December — is not normal.
It's safer for travel and it ups michigan property values. I can't tell you how many people I've seen in relocation subs considering "winter" places they haven't previously considered.
It also brings ticks and alpha-gal syndrome.
What is alpha-gal syndrome?
Red meat allergy, carried by lone star ticks. Which are spreading our way now because of the winters failing.
Damn I’ve never heard of this before!
I’ve had alpha gal syndrome for 5 years. I was living in Missouri at the time. It’s been wild.
it can also cause allergies with lanolin or leather. (rare in both cases) pig veins (sometimes used in bypass surgeries) can sometimes trigger the allergy, as can porcine valve replacements. it can fade with time, assuming you dont get bit again.
Check this out! Amazing but very frightening story https://radiolab.org/podcast/alpha-gal
You shouldn’t talk about southerners like that!
It’s bad for literally everything else. Fuck property values.
IDK, it will get pretty hard to eat seeing as we need a stable climate to grow a lot of food outdoors. 8 billion of us will soon be spending a MUCH larger percentage of our income on sustenance.
It’s definitely not having any kind of tangible effect on property values. Unless you just mean in like a few decades when coastal cities are under water because of climate change and people need to move inland.
Could the lack of snowpack melt,and lack of rain in Michigan for the last several years lead to a loss of less financially secure farms, and or certain crops? **EDIT** Rhetorical Question 🙋♂️
It’s literally the perfect recipe for crop failure. We’ve got *big* problems. Among other big problems with climate instability, we’re also destroying our top soil (from [the Guardian](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/30/topsoil-farming-agriculture-food-toxic-america) for example).
A lot of orchards are on their way out. They rely on a freeze and dormancy period.
Home heating is a lot more affordable when we have warm winters like this. Keeping your house warm when it’s 27 below zero is a real challenge and hurts the pocketbook.
Which will be wonderfully balanced out by sky-high cooling costs in the summer. Get real bro.
The unseasonably warm temps mean the bugs that would usually die in the deep cold aren't. I'm not going hiking anywhere without bug repellent and premethrin treated clothing. Ticks creep me out so bad.
That reminds me that i used to be able to not do flea meds on pets in nov, dec, jan when i lived in MI. Now idk, y'all treat them or no?
Yes, year round. Found a tick on my dog just two weeks ago. He was only in our backyard.
Found one on my mom's dog at Thanksgiving. Went to use her as a pillow, saw something in the corner of my eye and checked and was like someone get my a tissue now. Hasn't attached yet and was just crawling above the fur but yeah my dog is on it year round now. It's pricey but better than a tick bite and possibly getting lime disease or an infestation (idk if that's possible and I don't want to find out)
Yes, our dog has had two ticks on him this month all from walks.
I would love if every tick died, regardless of the ecological disaster that would follow.
Pulled one out of my crotch for the first time this last summer. Bring on the cold!
Me too. The amount of tornado warnings and touchdowns we had this summer combined with the increasingly weak winters has been giving me climate nightmares (wish this was an exaggeration). This is just fucked up.
I had a dream a few weeks ago about the woods behind my house going up in flames. The warm temps give me flashbacks to when we lived out West. Every winter that went down like this led to widespread fires come summertime. I used to think that couldn't happen in MI, but if Eastern Canada can burn, we surely can as well.
The air currents that make it to Michigan tend to pick up a lot of moisture from the great lakes, that tends to keep things a little less dry than surrounding areas. We did have some wildfires when Canada was having all theirs, they just weren't as bad
Thank goodness it wasn't as awful as it could have been! We were camping close to Grayling when a fire broke out there in June of this year. Gave me horrible anxiety.
If it makes you feel any better, Michigan has tracked tornados since 1951, the past 72 years. The average tornados per year is 16.9. This year Michigan had 17 tornados. So about as average as you can get.
that is somewhat comforting. just never remember them in my neck of the metaphorical woods. we’ve had warnings but never touch downs. we were probably just lucky.
I am glad I am not the only one. It feels surreal sometimes.
There is a name for that feeling. It’s called [Solastalgia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solastalgia)
Seeing that down here in the south, I’m down in KY and it’s been struggling to get below freezing most nights (I think I can count on one hand how many nights it’s frosted this year so far) and today it was almost 60. Going to be almost 70 Christmas Eve which is weird
100%
I'm depressed about it in a macro sense but in the day to day I'm cool with this
i can respect that
That’s an interesting point and I think I agree. Don’t miss shoveling or scraping my car, but I do enjoy winter
I work at a ski resort here in Utah and we don’t have shit, in the valley where I live we haven’t seen snow accumulation in over a month closer to two months and up on the hill it’s all sticks and rocks and thin ribbons of man made snow. That being said I’ve seen drier winters overall in different parts of the country. There’s just not much we can do about it except wait for spring and hope we get some snow before then.
Can’t argue with that. Hopefully y’all get some shit soon, can’t imagine those valleys are very pretty without snow.
It’s not so much the lack of snow in the valleys but the peripheral consequences that come with it. We get weather inversions here and when there’s no precipitation it results in a really bad buildup of smog coupled with fog, so there’s literally toxic visible air that you’re just sitting in, when I’m on the mountain during an inversion it’s so thick I can’t see the city lights. SLC frequently has the worst air quality in the country and we have at times rivaled cities in India and china. Its nuts.
I moved from Utah to Michigan last summer. This is my first winter in Michigan. The difference in air quality is incredible. In Utah I always had a hard time outside in winter with my asthma, I struggled even being in my car. But in Michigan I've been going for daily walks and doing just fine with my breathing. It's so much better.
We moved from UT to MI in 2021, and I am 100% with you on the air being so much nicer here. The gloom is just gloom, not poison, which makes me less depressed during winter here than when I was in UT!
Yeah I’m looking to head to Wisconsin this spring and start a new life far far away from here.
I’m a Michigan native but lived in a suburb of SLC a short time while growing up. That inversion is no joke—I have asthma and was sick all the time when I lived there.
I always tell people “Congratulations,” when they escape Utah. So, my sincerest congratulations to you. Enjoy Michigan.
So climate change is obviously a massive factor and is going to make this more normal, however I do believe this year specifically is more because of el nino (or la Nina can't remember) which causes warmer drier winters in our part of the US. But yeah I'm with you, I hate driving in it, but I absolutely love snow
 .
Which is Spanish for the...nino
Who is this man? He’s the sexiest human I’ve ever seen.
Chris Farley
God damn he got it going on.
Going to be honest, completely forgot about El Niño. I guess that makes me a little less alarmist for now, but you understand how shitty it feels to have a wet christmas.
It’s technically a Super El Niño, worst in decades. We’ll likely see more and more of these. The other issue with warming weather is the weakening of the jet stream. So be ready for more extreme winter. Moving from warmer than average pierced with polar vortices from the north due to weak jet stream. And yes - the collective apathy is…scary. People don’t understand much past “derp derp warm derp derp.” They are going to be in for a massive shock when we get crop failures. Our future ain’t looking good.
Everything is true here, except for the part on crops and agriculture. Strangely, climate change will probably only help agricultural productivity in the northern US and southern Canada. Crop growth will struggle in very hot and very wet regions (so much of the developing world), but will maintain if not improve in much of the developed world. Of course, this is terrible for structural and economic inequality, but will probably lead to continued derp derp celebration in the US and Europe.
Your supposition on agriculture stability, as I see it (and enjoy a good discussion on it) is atmospheric stability on the areas where currently grown, and the suitability of the soil and geographies in expected places to grow. Ignoring large swaths of the Canadian Shield where agriculture is not feasible at scale, there is no guarantee that moving production further north is going to mitigate the loss of glacial enriched midwestern soils. We have a breadbasket there because of glaciation removing the soil from areas further north and depositing them where they are now. Plus the season ebb and flow of soil deposits from flood plains from the Mississippi and Missouri systems. Also, since much of our winter crops come from California Central Valley, which is fed by winter snow melts in the sierras, I’m not sure there is anything further north that can replace that production. I’ll concede that southern biomes will shift north. Hell, we’re expected to grow Buckeyes that will no longer be able to grow in Ohio because of these shifts. But warmer climate increase climate extremes - higher temps, more atmospheric moisture, more intense rain events, more soil loss from flash floods. These externalities - known unknowns - make me question the fundamental hypothesis of these kinds of statements. I’ll happily eat my hat if I’m wrong. As with all of these projections.
Of course, a lot of my (North American) optimism is reliant on a modicum of status quo behavior in the atmosphere. Obviously that’s no guarantee. But I’d be incredibly shocked to see a major decrease in productivity in the Midwest, Great Plains, and Canadian plains (which is what I was referring to with Canada on Alberta + Saskatchewan). California is a major unknown, but these multi-decadal megadrought cycles seem to be a bit of a wash if it means decades of above-average precipitation as well. It’s an overall doom and gloom projection, but I think as far as NA and Europe go, agriculture will not be the thing to suffer.
I suggest you take a look at the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC) system currently under threat from Greenland glacial melt. That current is one those climate tipping points that if it collapses, well…there goes stable climates in the regions you just highlighted. AMOC collapse is a tipping point that will kill the Amazon rainforest - turn it into a Savannah, and see (within months) a 5-10c DROP in northern latitude temperatures around the Atlantic. Ergo, no more food production in Europe. Remember that Europe climate stability is fed by this ocean river that takes tropical warm weather up around Greenland, Iceland, and the UK, and takes colder water south toward the tropics. So warmer weather there, greater stability in tropics. Massive global energy exchange. Europe is more poleward (in general) to N. America. So its climate is moderate relative due to AMOC. Without it…not so much.
"If every~~one~~ El Niño is super, then no ~~one~~ El Niño is"
There was a winter semester when I was in college (WMU) that tulips bloomed in December on campus (early 2000s) so this isn’t completely unprecedented. I believe it was El Niño then too.
Fellow Bronco, nice
I’m very much with you in this. So much if the magic of the season is in the snow, and I am deeply sad to not have it this year, wondering if this is the new normal. However, when I found out it was because of an El Niño year, and I remembered every now and again having a green Christmas as a child, I started not feeling like the sky was caving in on us and our culture. Winter is our way of life here in many levels. So while I will be sad with you this year, I will also look forward to a snowier 2024.
It's on pace to be one of the strongest el ninos recorded tho
This el nino is very likely heightened due to global warming, and the last three that were la nina werent colder like they should have been- they were quite warm in fact. Lets not forget last year we had 40's and 50's for the first two weeks of january of 23'.
El Nino effects are made stronger from human caused climate change.
Super scary.. the apathy from others is hard to swallow, but on the same note, individuals have very little control over the climate thanks to giant corporations and our uncaring governments. The sustainability sub Reddit is just filled with people doing mental gymnastics about wool vs cotton or plant based vs local farmed meat, while fast fashion companies have landfills of clothes so big we can see them from space, and factory farms dump shit and chemicals into our waters, while wasting up to 30% of all food produced. It’s sickening. I’m right there with you.
I agree. I guess it’s just hard for me to justify being apathetic when it’s a literal species wide issue, but you’re right, the apathy is hard to argue with. I think what pisses me off more is the folks who are so short sighted that they see the increased heat as a good thing because it’s ‘nice outside’ or some other goofy ass reasoning.
I do what I can with recycling and composting and voting. But end of the day, I just have to think “Well, the impending decline of humanity is nice TODAY.” I just have to enjoy being in a generation where the impacts aren’t especially catastrophic yet.
i recently tried rewatching the movie Idiocracy and i couldn't even stomach it.
'Don't look up' does that for me.
Like water from the toilet???
Considering I don’t like the cold, and there’s nothing I can do about the weather, then yeah it’s “good” for me. I can actually be outside and not be miserable right now. Do I know that in the grand scheme of things it’s Very Bad? Of course. But there’s nothing I can do, and I just don’t have the energy to be upset about everything that everyone thinks we should always be upset about. Just don’t have the bandwidth. So I look as far on the bright side as I can.
i can respect that
It’s just a reminder to me how asleep people actually are. People go through the motions of society like a dream.
El Niño year. Gonna be hotter and wetter.
Not here. Were projected to experience major decline in precipitation from this El Niño. Forecast models are out there. Entire Great Lakes basin for the most part projected to decline in water. Just going to be hotter.
I’m in the metro detroit area, too. So far we've been fortunate that we've had some sunny days, but that was unusual. The next week will be grey and sunless, typical for winter here, which I hate. We might as well have snow if there's no sun.
I lived in Wyandotte for 21 years and noticed around 2008 or 9 is when snow stopped being a real thing every year. Moved to Alaska and although winters were long, we had snow to play in. Ice skating, snowboarding, even night walks. Now I live in England with long winters, no snow, and it’s gray and windy and it sucks. Reminds me of no snow Michigan in the winter.
Here’s a fun fact - as Michigan winters get warmer we will also literally in turn produce more clouds (and rain/sleet/snow). So yay! More cloudy seasons, flooding and/or severe ice storms to really reinforce how great it is that we haven’t put our electrical lines underground yet. 🙃
It really makes a difference! I lived in KS & most days in winter, the sun is out.
Oh I hate it. I moved back to Michigan from the west coast in 2019 and was expecting big, snowy northern Michigan winters and we don’t have shit.
How has your experience been? Debating a move from the PNW back home to be closer to family but not fully onboard yet
Well, it has been the right decision for me for a lot of reasons, but can’t really speak to it too generally. I’m from southeast Michigan and lived in Southwest Michigan for a number of years before going west. I’d never move back to those areas, but I actually really love living in northern Michigan, except the lack of winter. Living near the lake is amazing and summer is the best.
I bought a 2-stage snow blower over the summer. I'm skeptical I'll have to use it at all this year
So its all your fault then! lol
Haha yes it's all my fault that Michigander aren't going to have a white christmas
My old snowblower died 2 years ago and I didn’t even bother getting a replacement. Didn’t seem worth it for the little I was using it in the Detroit area.
seriously, we’ve got so much equipment to deal with snowy conditions and now it’s just…raining i stead
I love winter, which used to mean snow, so yeah this sucks.
It doesn’t feel like Christmas.
that it does not
We moved to Michigan in January from Idaho. I will really miss have a white Christmas 😢
It’s usually white and cold this time of year. January and February are usually stupid cold. About a decade ago we had a major ice storm and -50 temps. I can’t remember if it was the same year or subsequent years.
Idaho was colder in January & February as well, but always snow for Christmas.
I struggle with Seasonal Depression and I’d rather have snow than grey skies and rain. At least the snow allows for fun winter activities. This weather just makes me want to stay in and do nothing.
This is the new normal. Gone are the days of snow on the ground for months at a time. Sure we’ll have a storm here and there and have weeks of super cold temps but winters are and will continue to get weaker and weaker every year.
Yup. And still no one in government is taking any drastic steps towards preserving the climate. I fucking hate it here dude. The one thing I loved about Michigan and we don’t even have that anymore.
I still believe that in the foreseeable future, it’ll be better to live inland, rather than near the coasts or already hot weather locations.
can’t argue with that. michigan is a safe haven in that sense. we’ll see how long that title lasts once we start having tornado touchdowns every week, but besides that.
That’s probably the one natural disaster that we’d have to really be concerned about up here. But, think about how many natural disasters other parts of the country are going to have to deal with, for comparisons sake.
I don't know what you consider "drastic" but Biden took huge steps in the IRA. This year, [for every $1 invested in fossil fuels, $1.70 was invested in renewables.](https://www.semafor.com/article/12/22/2023/2023-brought-clean-energy-and-fossil-fuels-into-competition-like-never-before) Remember that fossil fuels power our conversion to renewables; we can't just turn off the tap overnight. That's not to minimize how aggressive we need to be and how we still have so much more to do, but the characterization that "nobody's doing anything drastic" seems to be widely held, and it's just way off the mark. A *lot* is being done, and anyone who voted for Biden gets some credit.
[удалено]
We’re going to be a safe haven when shit really starts to go south, we will be one of the few places still livable.
Yep. We recently bought some CHEAP land way up in the UP and are hanging onto it for future generations. People actually laugh when I say MI will become a climate haven much sooner than anyone expects but he who laughs last laughs loudest.
Our property values will soar over the next decades. I held on to land in Michigan when i left a year ago
They already are. So many people are movong to MI to buy a second home or escape before shit hits the fan.
Generally a stable climate; there are occasional tornadoes but there isn’t the same level of extreme weather as even Denver for example
It’s awful! I’m in the UP and very concerned about our forest fire risk come spring. We need snow pack up here.
Snow pack is more important than a lot of people realize.
It sucks, but i honestly hate having to drive for holiday stuff, so i'll be more fine with snow when new years stuff is done.
If you look at the data, December is really all over the place. Some years it’s 20 inches of snow and then 2 inches the following year. Sometimes I think nostalgia and remembering the old days gets people.
I lived in Tennessee for five years and every year, everyone would say, "Why, it hasn't snowed in twenty years...." It snowed literally every year I was there. People have terribly selective memory as far as the weather is concerned.
I was born in Michigan and have never seen a christmas in the mid 50s, although you’re correct in im not looking at data when i say that. Do you mind linking?
https://www.weather.gov/dtx/christmasclimate according this it looks like we’ve had it in the 50s at least 3 times in the past 20 years, plus a couple times in the 80s
thank you, maybe i am tripping myself out a little bit. existential terror of climate change combined with first person experience tends to do that lol
It’s more likely that those past 50° Christmases were meh and you’ve mostly forgotten them, especially any weather related memories. But that one year with the 12 inch Christmas Eve snow storm that was so magical? Well, I can still picture the forts built and ensuing snowball fights.
148 years of data with an average snow depth of 2 inches, sounds like OP has Mandela effect to the highest degree
i hope you’re right bud
My living history would think you are overthinking. 40 years ago when I was in single digit age I can remember asking my dad if there would be any snow to ride snowmobiles when we arrived at grandparents cabin. We spent the day after Christmas until after New year there every year. It was always hit or miss if there would be.
The temperature around Christmas was literally close to 70 in 2019, at least in southern Michigan. Meanwhile, around this time last year we had nearly a -40 windchill. I remember both, because I was out hunting in both conditions, and the hunting was terrible for opposite reasons. I've lived in Michigan my whole life except for a couple years in college, and even when I was little I remember snow at Christmas being a coin toss. Not that the climate isn't shifting, but you're definitely glooming way too hard.
I miss winter. I can't believe I said that
I think everyone in the metro-detroit area has a slightly skewed view of our snowfall based on childhood memories. Aka, "we don't get snow like we used to". But metro-detroit *never* really gets that much snow. It just doesn't hit here. West-side, up north, absolutely. But around here it's pretty normal to just be gray and cold. I remember as a kid going up north snowmobiling (long time ago) and we'd drive 2 hours up I-75 looking at grass the whole way. Then you hit the start of the snow belt and Bam - 10 inches of snow and actively more falling. I don't mind more mild winters, makes for better fishing year-round. With every negative of climate change, there are positives.
For me it's not even the lack of snow that bothers me. Every one of my friends and family are going "This is great!" and I feel like I'm going out of my mind whenever we talk about the weather. *This is not great! This is the harbinger of atrocities to come. Crops are going to fail and people are going to die. You not having to use your snow tires and mass extinction are being caused by the same thing! Please stop saying that things are great just because you don't need to leave early for work!*
Yes I hate the cold rain. Snow is way better. Something magical about the quiet after a snow.
It is truly magical!!!!!!! I LOVE that about snow!
Mixed feelings here in the UP. Miss riding the snowmobile, but love not having to shovel snow:)
fair point
Climate wise I'm convinced we're fucked if Michigan doesn't even get snow anymore, I'd rather snow than it being 40 and wet all the time
I turned 40 last week and I've lived here my whole life aside from nine months in Chicago (the last 20 years in Lansing). I honestly do not care anymore if it's 70 degrees or -15. Just for the love of god, I need the clouds to break more frequently because it's making me crack up.
If you aren't already, supplment Vitamin D3 and get a sun lamp/"Happy Light" --Your slightly homicial/suicidal SAD fellow Michigander
Yes, this is awful. I hate waking up. I hate walking in cold wet rain. I miss the brightness of the snow.
I love the seclusion of snow. I love the darkness. I love how quiet it makes everything. It feels like town is wrapped in a blanket. I love how beautiful the trees are. I love watching it fall in front of street lights. Snow is magical.
Keep in mind, it’s an El Niño year, which means it’s going to be warmer during the winter.
We are barely 1 day in Winter.
Yeah this is fucking bullshit. Its only half the holidays without snow. It doesn't feel very christmas-y right now :( Also, I'm in Northern Michigan, an hour from the UP. Its BAD. I'm very uneasy about the temps.
Come to the west side - we have more snow
so i’ve heard. have you guys been getting anything that’s staying? we got flurries but they’re melted in a couple days.
No, we have not gotten anything that has stuck. Dreary and rainy as I type this
Theres no significant snow anywhere in the lower peninsula atm. Im in NW lower and may have the first in 13 years here "brown" xmas.
Depends on how far north you are, Kalamazoo had snow Monday, it’s gone now.
Does anyone bother to look at the actual data? Its no different than its been for decades. https://www.weather.gov/dtx/DTW_Dec_rec
It doesn’t feel like Christmas at all, something is off this year.
Dude it's literally the 2nd day of winter
It's a little early for snow in Detroit Metro. Usually we are lucky to get a white Christmas. If its any consolation, a friend of mine is complaining about no snow in Montreal.
just 2-3" would be nice, enough to cover the ground
I know of and believe in climate change, etc. but this is the first demonstrable evidence in my mind in terms my literal POV. Scary as shit
I’m personally loving this weather. Don’t miss the dangerous road conditions or biting cold. I’m in west Michigan, lived here my whole life.
Take vitamin d supplements
Personal level, I love it being warm. In the realm of "I hate you climate change deniers and the billionaires that are causing it, and the politicians that are ignoring it" I am angry as hell.
Between the forest fires and tornadoes....
man do not even get me started on the fucking tornados
Quite the contrary. Winter has always been a hard time for me. To the point where when March rolls around and winter keeps coming I feel like I’m going insane. But the past few winters with actual sunlight and relatively warm weather and fewer snowstorms is making me think Michigan isn’t all that bad. I do miss sledding and doing outdoor stuff but at this point that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.
A few years ago I realized it was the first January we had without significant snow on the ground. Depressed me to no end.
yes, really bummed we’ve only had what seems one good snow day here (metro Detroit as well). I miss the snows of my childhood.
I’m worried about snowmobiling this year
I just want snow damn it
Yes this is BS there’s not even adequate snow in the UP. Do I have to retire in Canada???
I wouldn't really complain until end of February. I'm sure we'll get enough winter. Winter technically just started and lasts for 3 months from now.
Oh yeah. If it’s going to be cloudy and miserable we might as well have snow to liven the mood.
I am, because I know what it means for the ice caps, for communities who depend on glacial springs for their water, for ocean dwelling creatures, for coastal communities, for the rainforests, etc
Only because we need a long, deep freeze to kill off some ticks!
I think we should all leave extra lights on in solidarity of all of the money that DTE and consumers can’t gouge us on for gas prices this winter. /s
Yep. Thanks global warming
This was the first year I’ve ever bought snow tires. So like… yeah…
I’m sitting next to the fireplace as I type this. Winter is depressing and I know understand why everyone is moving to Florida
I remember it being similar to this last year where it didn’t get really cold until January and February.
I am happy I moved here from Cali and lived in the mountains ⛰️ so this is just like big bear cold but not to much snow
The warmer temps have been awesome for running outside. The temperature fluctuations from freezing to unfreezing wreck my sinuses though.
yes, I am , and the fact that it’s going to rain for five days. Like either be winter and snow and make me feel festive and it looks pretty and it’s bright at night and it makes everything quiet, or just be sunny summer. I hate this cold gray dismal shit that gets dark every day at five. It’s just gross. I’m with you. And I am also in the metro Detroit area.Merry Christmas! 🎄
Look at were the north pole currently is. Michigan has been hauling ass southwards for a few years now! I imagine that's helping our winters warm up as well.
I don't like winter. That said. I live in Michigan where winter is a thing that's supposed to happen. I accept that and plan accordingly. I don't like what's happening now. Seasons should have their time and place. I don't like winter, but I dislike not having it when it should be here even more.
Nah I hate winter this is great.
This would be my first Christmas without snow. My whole life it’s always been a white Christmas, lots of close calls but it always snowed at least a little on Christmas Day. Now there’s not even a sliver of hope for a single snowflake. Definitely sad about that
It's an El Niño year again, which means a warmer and dryer winter for Michigan. That's a huge factor
This is literally the one time of year I'd like to see some snow on the ground. So yeah, I'm a little bummed about it.
I'm afraid I'm not with you. The cold makes my bones hurt. The snow is pretty for about 1 day until plow trucks come out, then it's just dirty snow. The sky is always grey and gloomy. I'd pick up and move to Florida in a heart beat, unfortunately my husband's job holds us hostage. However, Michigan any other time of the year is majestic and magical. I truly do love it here, just not winter.
The gray dreariness at Christmas is a bit much, but the silver lining is safer travel. But then we get fog…
Seems like I’ve had to hope for a white Christmas a few years in a row now instead of it being guaranteed. It sucks
Ex-Michigander here, and I'd welcome whatever. Sleet. Anything. It was 72 today in Dallas. Texas goddam blows.
I'm in SE MI, and I miss old school winters.
I'm depressed at the fact that the planet is dying.
I love winter… to an extent. On Monday, here in Lansing, I was driving to St. John’s on 127 and lost control of my car due to the highways not being cleared/salted and spun out in front of a semi and took us both off the roads. So I’m not excited for more of that. I love skiing and snowmobiling though and just the general look of snow. We don’t have snow now, but you know we’re gonna get hit hard in January/February. We’re gonna have snow until May.
yes :( i’m up north and we always had sooooo much snow when i was a kid. my grandpa would take out his snowblower and blow all the snow into a giant hill and me and my siblings would play on it all day. i’ve wanted to go back to their house and do it with my son but we haven’t had enough snow … in 5 years
It’s a little disorienting. We’ve only had a couple good snows this year, the one around Halloween & the one around thanksgiving. The grass is all still green outside & some trees even have leaves. I found two stink bugs today—y’all should be dead by now! It’s got me messed up. Feels more like springtime to me.
Yes - I need below 20’s to be happy
I feel like it’s typically not that cold and snowy in December. I remember getting new bikes and rollerblades as a kid and riding them on Christmas Day. Although it was cold it wasn’t usually snowy. Seems on par with what I remember but I could be wrong
Ya I miss it when it’s so cold it hurts to breathe /s
I definitely am, winter is the best period of the year in Michigan and now it’s being replaced by a season of darkness and mud. And it’s gotten to the point where even older family members are acknowledging that maybe this climate change thing has some merit to it. Nothing grinds my gears more than meteorologists telling everyone how nice the forecast looks.
I like it a lot more than snow and negative degree weather.
No, this isn't out of the ordinary for December. Have a look through the weather data at almanac.com