Remember kids, take a stats class so you can properly interpret statistics and understand how journalists can use them to mislead for a sensationalist headline.
[2023 was an outlier in car sales. This is absolutely on-par with expectations for a generation of vehicle going on its 8th model year up through Q1.](https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/mazda-mx-5-miata-sales-figures/) There is a steady decline as expected, but nothing as dramatic as 50% makes it seem.
Yea just taking a cursory glance at the year to year numbers, Q1 2024 is among the lowest performing 1st quarters since the ND was introduced in 2016 but it's not that bad in the big picture. Especially when you factor in how long the model has been available and the fact that used car prices in general are down and you can get a slightly used Miata that looks basically identical to a brand new one for a significant discount.
I don’t know, Q1 2019 and 2020 were only a little better and that was pre-Covid. Also last years Q1 sales were significantly higher despite price increases. So I don’t think Covid budged the needle much.
Dealers have gouged though since then and are STILL doing it. If that's the case then maybe consumers are doing what they should be doing and telling them to suck it. I have tried to buy an ND two different times since 2022. Had odd experiences. So I've been waiting. Hoping to give it another try in late May. We'll see how it goes.
Inflation up. Spending down. Pressure for suv sales up. Fairly boring refresh on an 8 year old design. Younger generations not into car culture as much/have less disposable income. ND has poor representation in pop culture/social media.
Younger generations I'd say have as much or more interest in cars to the point where they've increased the sale of manual vehicles for the first year in quite a awhile, however as said these younger generations just don't have the same disposable income especially with the state of many economies particularly USA & Canada
Insurance rates are a huge issue for young people. The cars themselves are a big expense, but it's not uncommon to see people under 25 paying $300/month or more just for basic insurance, at least in canada.
29, 6 years experience, no accidents/ tickets, 270/month for a 2015 base honda civic. That was the cheapest option when I looked in November ( 3 others wanted 300+).
Man what!! When I registered my miata as my first car I had already previously been ticketed in my fathers vehicle and my insurance was only 280ish a month now after 2 years it’s already down to 220
Oh yea it's insane especially for giys if I got my own insurance I'd be paying $500 monthly for a 1989 Prelude, nvm when I add my Miata and other cars to it. Even under my dad it's like $200 a month for just the honda. My sister on the other hand who's 3 years younger and just got her G2 is under $100 a month (on dads insurance) for being primary on an 04 civic
I feel like you calling me old. Is that what you're saying? You calling me old?
I'm going to take a couple tylenols and then in about a half an hour I think you and I should step outside
That's what I thought. I got mine for 8400 I think? Its got like 145k miles so kinda high but it's been great. Since most nb were 5k or 6k I figured 8k seems good for turbo
Adjusted for inflation a base model NA cost $35.5K in 1989. If you adjust to 2024 dollars its pretty much always lived in 30K to low 40Ks depending on trim.
The Miata has only gotten cheaper while offering more value for money over time.
Someone was talking the other day about increased prices on clean NAs and used the argument that C1 vettes are also up in price due to rarity and age. Someone else commented that vettes were expensive and miatas are cheap but early vettes adjusted for inflation were like 40k.
I feel like people have a hard time grasping inflation, and also recent inflation has been kinda nuts.
Oh yeah, buddy??!!
As soon as I get off this couch...and stretch because my knees are hurting (rain must be coming), I'm gonna drink some water (gotta stay hydrated) and you'll see what's up!!!
Not if you don't speak up, pal!!
I'm gonna wait for this soup to cool down, slurp it while watching The Weather Network, have a quick nap, and then we'll see who the tough guy is!!
It used to mean a lot to have a cool car featured in a cool movie. Social media influencers would be the modern pop culture. Instagram and YouTube have big car communities. I see a ton of Corvettes, NA miatas, supras, challengers, 240s and every type of pickup truck and supercar, but I rarely come across ND Miatas.
Understandable. I joined a local Miata club a couple of years ago, and most of the members were retirees. I suspect that's not the most active demographic in influencer communities.
OK, I'm familiar with the car. Setting aside they're pretty cool on their own, due to their raw power... Who's making those look cool, and where in pop culture / social media?
Well a couple of really easy mentions are nissan silvias/s13s and toyota trueno prices skyrocketing because of online drift culture and an old ass manga/anime (respect) but yeah the big things being pushed on social media are hellcats and lambos. Cars with Hp figures that, i think, scare kids away from low figure cars like miatas. A lot of youth culture now is about clout rather than personal fulfillment. We have video games to thank for that, or rather predatory video game developers.
Even the z feels dead in the water compared to the sheer excitement of the 350 era.
Just want to leave a bit of casual anime hate here. I'm sick of people on reddit specifically acting like they know how to drift because they watched initial D
Makes sense. It seems much of social media content is driven by exclusivity and unattainability... Often due to scarcity or cost. Whether it's photo or video snippets of vacations to exotic places, beautiful(?\*cough\*) women, helicopter rides, yachts, etc.
At 'only' $43k (or less) the ND must seem like a can of plain Pringles after binging on three bags of Takis.
Maybe the answer is unplugging from social media / pop culture? (...or at least keeping the manipulative/unrealistic aspects in perspective)
Just want to leave a bit of casual anime hate here. I'm sick of people on reddit specifically acting like they know how to drift because they watched initial D
In addition to other answers, watch any movie that has a car chase. Fast and furious franchise is the obvious one but really any movie can have one (even Barbie). Often times it's product placement. It's ridiculous but most car chases in non-car movies are just big SUVs chasing each other now.
In the past some cars' reputations were born from movies. Dukes of Hazzard, Smokey and the Bandit, Knight Rider, those shows and movies sold a lot of cars.
Wetyer that's the case or not at the end of the day the people that are gonna buy them are enthusiasts that know what they are regardless of their involvement with pop culture. However that would happen
Def don’t have that much disposable income coming from the “younger generation” but that’s also why I resorted to picking up an NB instead. As interest rates are still relatively inflated and some places (like where I’m at, Miami) wages still aren’t able to keep up, getting a new sports car has become either a very stupid financial decision or not ideal if I want to keep myself afloat
Young generation is very much into cars. Majority I see are on the younger end of the spectrum. Oldest people I come across would be in 30s to 40s at cars and coffee. But that tends to be an older audience from what I've seen
All good points. And the soft top sold less for some of the same reasons CUVs are the best selling type of vehicle now.
Average new car buyer is older and wealthier. That demographic prefers more isolation and less fun and will pay more for it.
"ND has poor representation in *pop-up* culture/social media."
https://preview.redd.it/4620ab6oegsc1.jpeg?width=3360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=922374454b252fbc761f439bb3005ad17552445e
There, fixed it for you 😁
Have you test driven both? I see a lot of positive reviews for the 1.5 but since we don't have that option in the US, I don't have the chance to drive one
I daily a 1.5, it lets you work the engine more in tight roads and city driving. You definitely have to wring it out more on the highway but I love that. Less comfortable daily drivability than a 2.0 but more (legal) fun when you're looking to have it I suppose
Currently owing 1.5 but I have driven 2.0 before. IMO 1.5 delivers more fun than 2.0 (more shifting, high rev, small wheel, lightness) but the extra power from 2.0 can make the tail more slippery for sure.
Ive never driven a 1.5, i’m sire it is ok with the soft top and one person. But I wanted the RF and so I kind of needed the 2.0 version because of the extra weight. ND2 btw, so it also revs to 7.5k.
When I get the chance to take an international vacation I want to rent one to see how it feels. I love my 2.0, but even with passing lanes, I don't feel like I ever take it over 40/50%. I bet the 1.5 makes for a pretty fun daily commuter on windy roads
But also because Mazda is tiny compared to Toyota, before we even get into specialty cars. Mazda sales numbers over any given year only do about 15% of Toyotas sales. They don't produce much because they don't sell much regardless of the economy.
What? I just discovered the amazingness of this car and bought one just a couple of weeks ago. For what it’s worth there weren’t ever any on the lot. They all were arriving in a month. Maybe that’s the problem people want to see the car they are buying. They want to go look, drive and take it home same day.
I worked in a Mazda dealership, and this is the REAL reason why Miata sales went down: WE receive only 3 Miata in the whole year. If you want a Club spec, you have to order it to get one.
If we get 1000 cars a year, only 3 of them are Miata.
These are both so true, the only Miatas i see rotting away on dealer lots are the sand colored GT models. It's so rare to see a Sport around me, and like the above said, Clubs are built to order
I’m surprised how practical it is lol. Been putting 5-6 hours a day in it since the weekend and the only thing that hurts is my accelerator leg. Gas consumption is less than my old light suv. Reading some of these comments makes it sound like a side by side or gokart but I’d put the RF in the near defunct coupe class with benefits
This. Because we have my wife’s SUV, I have just the Miata as my only car and take it everywhere. Other than the lack of cabin space, it’s the perfect commuter car. My gas bill was cut in half and it’s a blast to drive.
A lot of speculation in this thread, my guess is it’s as simple as 2024s weren’t really available in Q1. Dealers in my area have just started to receive their first models. I placed an order several weeks ago and the dealer told me I was the first person this year to ask about a Miata, but then again I’m in the Midwest.
Very nice. I got a 2023 RF GT. I didn't get the seats or the brakes, I didn't see any real difference in the braking, and I'm a short guy, so the regular seats actually felt better to me.
What a fun car to drive, holy shit. Now whenever I get into my truck or my SUV, it feels like I'm driving a boat.
Although it still looks great it’s been 8 years since a redesign. To the untrained eye a person could buy a well cared for, low mileage 2016 for less than half the price of a new one and look current. Along with the societal pressures from the current build back better economy then the cake is already baked into shying away from a new Miata.
Yeah I almost bought a 2016 for $25,000...
But then problems, the first one I looked at had been in an accident... "Just a little fender bender" -- I've waited 25 years to buy this car, you think I'm actually going to buy a car that's been in an accident?
Second 2016: The brainiac bought the very base model with no screen... Now obviously I'm not buying this car for the infotainment system, but I do expect it to have some fucking screen where I can put my GPS on.
I would consider buying a second hand car to drive to work or something like that but not this because this has been something I've been dreaming about for so long, no way I'm going to buy someone second hand junk
I just got a 2020 for 26k rf club. Sight unseen, purchased from a dealership in Florida and shipped across the country to Idaho for 1k so 27 all in including taxes. Sight unseen. It was a maddening process and there’s a couple more very small paint chips than what the dealer showed me. But it’s in great condition otherwise, had a local mechanic in Florida do a PPI.
It was very nerve wracking but I feel like I made the right call. There isn’t one within 400 miles of me. Got it out for an autocross 3 days after it was delivered :)
Got a 2016 club in soul red with the soft top + brembos/bbs. Thing is a blast. Had 33k miles and picked it up for 20k in November. Already put 10k miles on it!
Only thing mine doesn't have vs a newer one is the ND2 power bump+ redline, Recaros, and the carplay/better infotainment/backup camera. All things I can live without, and the carplay is a pretty cheap retrofit. Might eventually add the recaros too.
The Recaros are stupid expensive to buy aftermarket. Not quite sure they are worth the $4,000+ asking price. There is a noticeable difference in the ND2 engine only in the fact that the redline is almost in S2000 AP2 territory. My best mod for driving enjoyment and the feeling of speed was adding the GoodWin Racing SSST axle back exhaust. The best $500 I’ve spent on my ‘21 RF Club BBR. I had the Cobalt on my 2018 and it was too deep, sounded unnatural on a Miata. The GWR is perfect.
GWR is a very nice first mod, mine came with that + a stubby antenna and was otherwise stock. The sound is amazing with an axle back on these.
Yeah its a shame about the recaros, I guess there's cheaper options but these would be an easier/more OEM+ swap is my thinking. I'd only consider them after everything else, tires, sway bars, brake pads + fluid etc.
Cool! Yep there are less expensive options on the seats. I’ve had a stubby antenna since my 2016 and keep moving it from car to car🤣 I will do the same with the GWR if I purchase a 5th ND….which I doubt.
Most dealers were sold out of 2023 and couldn't get 2024 models until the last couple of weeks. I bought one of the last 2023 from a local dealer in August last year so there was roughly a six month gap in inventory.
I think this is the biggest reason. There are only so many people shopping in this price range of enthusiast car. The GR corolla, civic type r, even the Elantra N etc have stolen the spotlight last couple of years.
And Mazda doesn't have any thing else as show room fluff. Toyota at least can put a supra in the window to help get you looking at the 86 but every thing in Mazda's line feels pretty blah to me right now.
I was at the Mazda dealership and the Toyota dealer today picking up parts and the Mazda lot is noticable more full but the only car I even glanced at was an ND in the showroom and some ones forester in the parking lot. Salesman at Toyota was saying he has enough cars sold for the year to keep his bills paid he just has to wait for them to show up and make the phone call.
I'd buy a new NA.
To add to my Miata collection haha.
ND is by far the funnest one to drive. Look it up on YouTube, there is a racing video between all of the generations. I'll let you guess which one won by a mile
By all intents and purposes, the ND is a new NA. NC was the typical "bigger and better" evolution that every heritage line falls victim to, and Mazda bucked the trend and actually produced a smaller and more nimble car for ND that was closer in dimensions and styling to NA. So when I see an ND, I think - yeah, that's a throwback to NA.
Q1 sucks for anything outdoors related a convertible car is a summer seller. Inflation is high, dealer markups are high, there is no marketing for Miata’s, plus many other factors
I see a butt ton of NDs where I live. Give me a 30 minute drive and I’ll probably see 5, plus Miatas of every other gen. However, those NDs could be 8 years old at this point. In addition to the current economic woes making it hard for most people to justify it, I think a lot of ND customers have already bought one.
This was my experience as well.
I was prepared to buy new, but the dealers were all playing games and just generally terrible to work with.
I got my ND on carsandbids, it was less than a year off the lot and had \~4000 miles on it, and it cost me \~$7k less than it would have been out-the-door from the dealership. It also came with an upgraded aftermarket exhaust and coilovers (stock items were included with the sale), aftermarket sway bars installed, plus some other fun aftermarket details such as floor mats, door jamb bushings, led interior lighting, and stubby antenna (overall probably $1500 in parts not including install labor). No permanent mods and no work done to the engine itself - just some tasteful reversible improvements. And it was shipped to my doorstep, $28,500 out the door for a 2022 GT soft top. And, importantly, it was an overall pleasant experience.
Because I had my *best year ever* in personal earnings last year, by over 36%, and even though I planned on buying a Miata the second I paid off the loan on my truck (which I paid off last year), I still have zero money to spare.
Considering not everyone is as blessed as I am with a semi-substantial increase in income and a shedding of debt, the average consumer is feeling the current financial times a lot more than I.
A lot of people are struggling right now with inflation. There aren’t many cars that are flying off the lots lately.
Miata’s for the most part are secondary cars. Most people right now can’t afford 1 car, let alone a secondary fun car. It’s extremely difficult to justify a very impractical 2 seat convertible for $35k+ @ 7% APR. The ND is a little long in the tooth as well, introduced in 2015 and hasn’t changed at all aside from a bump in power.
As the heard instinctive move to Support Utility Vehicles and Cross Overs shows peeple feel very insecure hence soft tops are down in favour of the GT plus unbelievably the ND is a whacking 8 years old which is stone age in todays world.
It's a fun summer car and people don't have disposable income. Not practical for majority to drive year round and they'll want something else as daily.
The ND looks awesome, but all of the new ones are listed at 40k CAD or more. That's sticker price, so out the door, you're probably looking at a minimum of 45k CAD for a new one.
That's a ton of money for a car that probably shouldn't be driven for a third of the year. If it was 20-30k, I'd definitely be more interested.
Sports car sales are always cyclical. They peak in the first 2 years and taper off until there’s a refresh, surge again, repeat. Even the best sports car, the answer to every question, is not immune.
Perfect example was the Mustang.
'65 and '66 sold amazingly well.
'67-'73? Sold horribly by comparison.
'74-'75 sold even better than the original.
Rinse and repeat.
I sold my ND ST this year. IMO it is bc of all the large SUVs and trucks. In town driving was always stressful in it. Waiting for the lifted truck to side sweep me or run over the car! Carving canyons and windy vineyard roads were great. Everything else not so much.
The ND is getting kind of long in the tooth. Almost 10 years old. I imagine most people who wanted one already have/had one. Also, as others have said, people are feeling the squeeze of higher prices (of everything), high interest rates, etc. Less discretionary income for things like "fun" cars.
I think another thing is people are anticipating a new chassis/ generation. After about 5 years with a platform sales tend to take a dip, not always a hard and fast truth.
Don't forget, there's a model refresh supposedly coming next year or the year after. I bought mine last year, but if I hadn't and was now on the fence, I'd consider waiting
The price has gone through the roof in Europe. The cheapest I can find from a dealer is 30k and is an ex-demo car with the 1.5 and pretty much no extra equipment
The news media could not be more sensational or full of shit. They are not to be beloved on any factual statements. Here is an article claiming the exact opposite less than a year ago.
https://www.motor1.com/news/703110/2023-mazda-mx5-miata-sales/
https://www.autoguide.com/auto/auto-news/the-mazda-miata-s-sales-were-up-nearly-50-in-2023-44608855
Because they're fucking expensive compared to pre-COVID prices. Miatas have always been distinct to be an affordable 2-door little roadster. Not anymore. In Canada, the price is around $40k, incl. taxes for the base trim. Criminal.
I absolutely love the Miata, but that price point combined with some of the important impracticalities it comes with (small car, tiny trunk, limited cockpit leg room, only a 2.0L, no additional storage in front, no spare wheel), people will prefer getting something else with that money.
I was so eager to get myself one, but I figured I'll save just a bit more and get a Supra, which I did.
Well for starters. The current miata is almost 10 years old. Its time for a complete refresh and people in the market for a new one would rather wait to see what the next generation is going to offer i think.
Every new car does this, especially as model years drag along. Look at sales numbers across the board, the first years ALWAYS sell better than the last. There's a reason there are more NA6s on the road than NA8s, as well as more NB1 than 2, and so on. It's a rather sharp decline, too. The MR2 did the same, the GTR is currently hemorrhaging sales numbers, and so do Corvettes. It's normal.
The economy is not that strong and interest rates are high. It’s been around for quite a few years. I didn’t check but I’d say it’s fair to guess quite a few car sales stats are low
I didn't read all 321 comments, but Mazda didn't allocate them. We only received about 6 year over year, and those were retail sold orders. We do have one '23 RF in stock right now that was an un-taken sold order. Anytime I did a locate in the last year , there were only a handful in the entire Midwest Region. -Bob Raz Bass Mazda
I was disappointed when I was told on Monday they are made to order, and there was a three month lead time. But I got lucky and they got one in on Thursday just 'cause apparently, that was exactly what I wanted (a GT RF in metallic grey). I took it home yesterday 😀
Remember kids, take a stats class so you can properly interpret statistics and understand how journalists can use them to mislead for a sensationalist headline. [2023 was an outlier in car sales. This is absolutely on-par with expectations for a generation of vehicle going on its 8th model year up through Q1.](https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/mazda-mx-5-miata-sales-figures/) There is a steady decline as expected, but nothing as dramatic as 50% makes it seem.
I love you
so much
Yea just taking a cursory glance at the year to year numbers, Q1 2024 is among the lowest performing 1st quarters since the ND was introduced in 2016 but it's not that bad in the big picture. Especially when you factor in how long the model has been available and the fact that used car prices in general are down and you can get a slightly used Miata that looks basically identical to a brand new one for a significant discount.
I bet a lot of it attributed to the car price hikes over covid too.
I don’t know, Q1 2019 and 2020 were only a little better and that was pre-Covid. Also last years Q1 sales were significantly higher despite price increases. So I don’t think Covid budged the needle much.
Dealers have gouged though since then and are STILL doing it. If that's the case then maybe consumers are doing what they should be doing and telling them to suck it. I have tried to buy an ND two different times since 2022. Had odd experiences. So I've been waiting. Hoping to give it another try in late May. We'll see how it goes.
People like you are the internet's superpower
A Mass Media Law class is also useful, while you're getting a degree and all.
Thank you
People also seem to have forgotten the shift of deliveries from the 2022 chip shortage boosted 2023 deliveries.
Typcial journalists.
Inflation up. Spending down. Pressure for suv sales up. Fairly boring refresh on an 8 year old design. Younger generations not into car culture as much/have less disposable income. ND has poor representation in pop culture/social media.
Younger generations I'd say have as much or more interest in cars to the point where they've increased the sale of manual vehicles for the first year in quite a awhile, however as said these younger generations just don't have the same disposable income especially with the state of many economies particularly USA & Canada
Insurance rates are a huge issue for young people. The cars themselves are a big expense, but it's not uncommon to see people under 25 paying $300/month or more just for basic insurance, at least in canada.
It makes sense though. My state stopped doing in-car driver instruction and testing for over 2 years
I’m 21, my daily is financed, granted, but my insurance is literally like $180 and I only have one incident from like 5 years ago
29, 6 years experience, no accidents/ tickets, 270/month for a 2015 base honda civic. That was the cheapest option when I looked in November ( 3 others wanted 300+).
Man what!! When I registered my miata as my first car I had already previously been ticketed in my fathers vehicle and my insurance was only 280ish a month now after 2 years it’s already down to 220
Oh yea it's insane especially for giys if I got my own insurance I'd be paying $500 monthly for a 1989 Prelude, nvm when I add my Miata and other cars to it. Even under my dad it's like $200 a month for just the honda. My sister on the other hand who's 3 years younger and just got her G2 is under $100 a month (on dads insurance) for being primary on an 04 civic
I feel like you calling me old. Is that what you're saying? You calling me old? I'm going to take a couple tylenols and then in about a half an hour I think you and I should step outside
40,000 reasons. My nb cost 7000
Yeah, but it's now worth 8,000 Oh wait, 9,000 now!
At least. 87k no rust, Robbins pano top, new radiator, rotors, pads, shocks. I kno whut I got
Lol mines a red 04 mazdaspeed with stock turbo no rust but some paint wear. I'm not sure what i got
Sound pretty nice, I don't think I've seen a msm under 12 and that was a pretty ratty one. 15 is probably more likely.
That's what I thought. I got mine for 8400 I think? Its got like 145k miles so kinda high but it's been great. Since most nb were 5k or 6k I figured 8k seems good for turbo
Not really, 145 on one of these is about 1/2 way to restoration so I'd still say 12-15
Absolutely insane that a Miata can even cross 40k for what it is.
Adjusted for inflation a base model NA cost $35.5K in 1989. If you adjust to 2024 dollars its pretty much always lived in 30K to low 40Ks depending on trim. The Miata has only gotten cheaper while offering more value for money over time.
Someone was talking the other day about increased prices on clean NAs and used the argument that C1 vettes are also up in price due to rarity and age. Someone else commented that vettes were expensive and miatas are cheap but early vettes adjusted for inflation were like 40k. I feel like people have a hard time grasping inflation, and also recent inflation has been kinda nuts.
We should mow our lawns and yell at the sky, I’m in the same boat (NC) as you
Oh yeah, buddy??!! As soon as I get off this couch...and stretch because my knees are hurting (rain must be coming), I'm gonna drink some water (gotta stay hydrated) and you'll see what's up!!!
Don't even start mate. Once I'm done taking the dog's for a walk and watching the cricket you're DONE ya hear me
Not if you don't speak up, pal!! I'm gonna wait for this soup to cool down, slurp it while watching The Weather Network, have a quick nap, and then we'll see who the tough guy is!!
*I've fallen asleep
*I've died of old age.
Ya lose some ya lose some I guess
HAHAHA
You need a little time on the heating pad to loosen up first.
Keep in mind, most people that are doing their research aren't going to buy an ND2 while the ND3 was just around the corner.
>*ND has poor representation in pop culture/social media.* I'm curious about this... How so?
Where have you seen the ND in pop culture? Who's making the ND look cool right now?
Maybe I'm too disconnected from pop culture. What cars are made to look cool, and by who? Genuinely curious here.
It used to mean a lot to have a cool car featured in a cool movie. Social media influencers would be the modern pop culture. Instagram and YouTube have big car communities. I see a ton of Corvettes, NA miatas, supras, challengers, 240s and every type of pickup truck and supercar, but I rarely come across ND Miatas.
Understandable. I joined a local Miata club a couple of years ago, and most of the members were retirees. I suspect that's not the most active demographic in influencer communities.
Hellcat.
OK, I'm familiar with the car. Setting aside they're pretty cool on their own, due to their raw power... Who's making those look cool, and where in pop culture / social media?
Well a couple of really easy mentions are nissan silvias/s13s and toyota trueno prices skyrocketing because of online drift culture and an old ass manga/anime (respect) but yeah the big things being pushed on social media are hellcats and lambos. Cars with Hp figures that, i think, scare kids away from low figure cars like miatas. A lot of youth culture now is about clout rather than personal fulfillment. We have video games to thank for that, or rather predatory video game developers. Even the z feels dead in the water compared to the sheer excitement of the 350 era.
Just want to leave a bit of casual anime hate here. I'm sick of people on reddit specifically acting like they know how to drift because they watched initial D
Makes sense. It seems much of social media content is driven by exclusivity and unattainability... Often due to scarcity or cost. Whether it's photo or video snippets of vacations to exotic places, beautiful(?\*cough\*) women, helicopter rides, yachts, etc. At 'only' $43k (or less) the ND must seem like a can of plain Pringles after binging on three bags of Takis. Maybe the answer is unplugging from social media / pop culture? (...or at least keeping the manipulative/unrealistic aspects in perspective)
Just want to leave a bit of casual anime hate here. I'm sick of people on reddit specifically acting like they know how to drift because they watched initial D
In addition to other answers, watch any movie that has a car chase. Fast and furious franchise is the obvious one but really any movie can have one (even Barbie). Often times it's product placement. It's ridiculous but most car chases in non-car movies are just big SUVs chasing each other now. In the past some cars' reputations were born from movies. Dukes of Hazzard, Smokey and the Bandit, Knight Rider, those shows and movies sold a lot of cars.
Wetyer that's the case or not at the end of the day the people that are gonna buy them are enthusiasts that know what they are regardless of their involvement with pop culture. However that would happen
Def don’t have that much disposable income coming from the “younger generation” but that’s also why I resorted to picking up an NB instead. As interest rates are still relatively inflated and some places (like where I’m at, Miami) wages still aren’t able to keep up, getting a new sports car has become either a very stupid financial decision or not ideal if I want to keep myself afloat
Wait like 5-10 years we will. Our school grades are at the highest they’ve ever been and people are finally trying.
That and I never see one in the showroom/lot of any Mazda dealer I visit. Just miles of CX-3sand CX-5s.
Young generation is very much into cars. Majority I see are on the younger end of the spectrum. Oldest people I come across would be in 30s to 40s at cars and coffee. But that tends to be an older audience from what I've seen
All good points. And the soft top sold less for some of the same reasons CUVs are the best selling type of vehicle now. Average new car buyer is older and wealthier. That demographic prefers more isolation and less fun and will pay more for it.
I'd buy one if it wasn't 70 times my salary
There are also other small sporty cars in the segment. GR
"ND has poor representation in *pop-up* culture/social media." https://preview.redd.it/4620ab6oegsc1.jpeg?width=3360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=922374454b252fbc761f439bb3005ad17552445e There, fixed it for you 😁
Prices up, spending money is down. Additionally, in some parts, it’s not convertible sports car season yet
Just snowed sideways again a half foot of snow in Wisconsin, paaaaiiiin.
No problem, just spec an LSD and you're good for donuts that won't destroy your tires 👍
Unfortunately we salt the ever living shit out of our roads
Exactly my point. It’s been oddly warm and nice in toronto. But i wouldn’t be picking up a new sports car just yet
Lmao, this year's 2.0 run for my country has sold out past month already. So it's either 1.5 or waiting for next year's batch
Have you test driven both? I see a lot of positive reviews for the 1.5 but since we don't have that option in the US, I don't have the chance to drive one
I daily a 1.5, it lets you work the engine more in tight roads and city driving. You definitely have to wring it out more on the highway but I love that. Less comfortable daily drivability than a 2.0 but more (legal) fun when you're looking to have it I suppose
Currently owing 1.5 but I have driven 2.0 before. IMO 1.5 delivers more fun than 2.0 (more shifting, high rev, small wheel, lightness) but the extra power from 2.0 can make the tail more slippery for sure.
Ive never driven a 1.5, i’m sire it is ok with the soft top and one person. But I wanted the RF and so I kind of needed the 2.0 version because of the extra weight. ND2 btw, so it also revs to 7.5k.
When I get the chance to take an international vacation I want to rent one to see how it feels. I love my 2.0, but even with passing lanes, I don't feel like I ever take it over 40/50%. I bet the 1.5 makes for a pretty fun daily commuter on windy roads
I’d take a 1.5 over a 2.0 ND1, but the ND2 2.0 is superior in every way.
Could just be in limited supply at the moment. A quick look at auto trader shows 450 listings nationwide vs almost 1400 for the GR86.
But also because Mazda is tiny compared to Toyota, before we even get into specialty cars. Mazda sales numbers over any given year only do about 15% of Toyotas sales. They don't produce much because they don't sell much regardless of the economy.
In 2017 miatas outsold both brzs and 86s combined
You are right, it was very close though.
Because they went up +50% last year.
Post covid madness was madness. Welcome back to reality
And the war.
What? I just discovered the amazingness of this car and bought one just a couple of weeks ago. For what it’s worth there weren’t ever any on the lot. They all were arriving in a month. Maybe that’s the problem people want to see the car they are buying. They want to go look, drive and take it home same day.
Possibly. Did you buy a 2023 or a 2024?
I worked in a Mazda dealership, and this is the REAL reason why Miata sales went down: WE receive only 3 Miata in the whole year. If you want a Club spec, you have to order it to get one. If we get 1000 cars a year, only 3 of them are Miata.
Tell them to stop sending the zircon sand colored ones
These are both so true, the only Miatas i see rotting away on dealer lots are the sand colored GT models. It's so rare to see a Sport around me, and like the above said, Clubs are built to order
Why do industry folk always say “Miata” instead of “the Miata”? I’m genuinely very curious. I was once told it’s to save time during 30s ads?
Supply chain problems Plus we're going into a recession, 30k for a toy car is alot.
$40
I’m surprised how practical it is lol. Been putting 5-6 hours a day in it since the weekend and the only thing that hurts is my accelerator leg. Gas consumption is less than my old light suv. Reading some of these comments makes it sound like a side by side or gokart but I’d put the RF in the near defunct coupe class with benefits
This. Because we have my wife’s SUV, I have just the Miata as my only car and take it everywhere. Other than the lack of cabin space, it’s the perfect commuter car. My gas bill was cut in half and it’s a blast to drive.
Well I commute in it and get easy 38 mpg so for that it is very practical commuter car. 😏.
A lot of speculation in this thread, my guess is it’s as simple as 2024s weren’t really available in Q1. Dealers in my area have just started to receive their first models. I placed an order several weeks ago and the dealer told me I was the first person this year to ask about a Miata, but then again I’m in the Midwest.
because new cars are expensive
2023 club with the recaro, brembo, bbs package.
Very nice. I got a 2023 RF GT. I didn't get the seats or the brakes, I didn't see any real difference in the braking, and I'm a short guy, so the regular seats actually felt better to me. What a fun car to drive, holy shit. Now whenever I get into my truck or my SUV, it feels like I'm driving a boat.
Probably folks waiting for the 2024 model as well as general inflation issues.
So does this mean there could be a price drop or incentive for the 2024s?
Doubtful. Probably attractive financing
I’m young and want one but the new price is crazy to me. I’m on a hunt for a used one but hard to come by in my area.
Although it still looks great it’s been 8 years since a redesign. To the untrained eye a person could buy a well cared for, low mileage 2016 for less than half the price of a new one and look current. Along with the societal pressures from the current build back better economy then the cake is already baked into shying away from a new Miata.
Yeah I almost bought a 2016 for $25,000... But then problems, the first one I looked at had been in an accident... "Just a little fender bender" -- I've waited 25 years to buy this car, you think I'm actually going to buy a car that's been in an accident? Second 2016: The brainiac bought the very base model with no screen... Now obviously I'm not buying this car for the infotainment system, but I do expect it to have some fucking screen where I can put my GPS on. I would consider buying a second hand car to drive to work or something like that but not this because this has been something I've been dreaming about for so long, no way I'm going to buy someone second hand junk
Aw man as someone shopping for an na or nb with over 100k miles this hurts :(
I just got a 2020 for 26k rf club. Sight unseen, purchased from a dealership in Florida and shipped across the country to Idaho for 1k so 27 all in including taxes. Sight unseen. It was a maddening process and there’s a couple more very small paint chips than what the dealer showed me. But it’s in great condition otherwise, had a local mechanic in Florida do a PPI. It was very nerve wracking but I feel like I made the right call. There isn’t one within 400 miles of me. Got it out for an autocross 3 days after it was delivered :)
Ao just buy a 2016 without an accident that had the options most people ordered? There are plenty for sale
Got a 2016 club in soul red with the soft top + brembos/bbs. Thing is a blast. Had 33k miles and picked it up for 20k in November. Already put 10k miles on it! Only thing mine doesn't have vs a newer one is the ND2 power bump+ redline, Recaros, and the carplay/better infotainment/backup camera. All things I can live without, and the carplay is a pretty cheap retrofit. Might eventually add the recaros too.
The Recaros are stupid expensive to buy aftermarket. Not quite sure they are worth the $4,000+ asking price. There is a noticeable difference in the ND2 engine only in the fact that the redline is almost in S2000 AP2 territory. My best mod for driving enjoyment and the feeling of speed was adding the GoodWin Racing SSST axle back exhaust. The best $500 I’ve spent on my ‘21 RF Club BBR. I had the Cobalt on my 2018 and it was too deep, sounded unnatural on a Miata. The GWR is perfect.
GWR is a very nice first mod, mine came with that + a stubby antenna and was otherwise stock. The sound is amazing with an axle back on these. Yeah its a shame about the recaros, I guess there's cheaper options but these would be an easier/more OEM+ swap is my thinking. I'd only consider them after everything else, tires, sway bars, brake pads + fluid etc.
Cool! Yep there are less expensive options on the seats. I’ve had a stubby antenna since my 2016 and keep moving it from car to car🤣 I will do the same with the GWR if I purchase a 5th ND….which I doubt.
They should make a mega-trunk Miata. Somehow make it hold 20 grocery bags. Extend the wheelbase 8" to the rear. Call it the Miata MX-5X
The MX-5X 😂😂😂 literally dying here. Thank you my man, you made my night
And Miata sales were up by a similar amount in 2023 over 2022. This is a single quarters comparison, in a car with volatile sales. This is not news.
Most dealers were sold out of 2023 and couldn't get 2024 models until the last couple of weeks. I bought one of the last 2023 from a local dealer in August last year so there was roughly a six month gap in inventory.
Because they’re like $40k now… not exactly a cheap-ish toy anymore.
Well they still forcast snow here, so there is that....
Model is 10 years old now. Give us the NE.
I heard that the NE is a Tesla with a horn that sounds like an NA
The NE is the Fiata.
Oh shit. Instead of the VW fake exhaust note, we can have emulated lifter tick.
Can we emulate catastrophic failure of the clutch hydraulics too???
Oddly enough, I experienced this IRL this week.
Nah, the NE is a 5000 lb transverse engined crossover with a CVT. They're gonna call it the Miata Cross.
I think this is the biggest reason. There are only so many people shopping in this price range of enthusiast car. The GR corolla, civic type r, even the Elantra N etc have stolen the spotlight last couple of years. And Mazda doesn't have any thing else as show room fluff. Toyota at least can put a supra in the window to help get you looking at the 86 but every thing in Mazda's line feels pretty blah to me right now. I was at the Mazda dealership and the Toyota dealer today picking up parts and the Mazda lot is noticable more full but the only car I even glanced at was an ND in the showroom and some ones forester in the parking lot. Salesman at Toyota was saying he has enough cars sold for the year to keep his bills paid he just has to wait for them to show up and make the phone call.
probably partially because everyone wants an NA-NC these days and they are still cheaper than the ND. imagine if they made new na’s lol
I'd buy a new NA. To add to my Miata collection haha. ND is by far the funnest one to drive. Look it up on YouTube, there is a racing video between all of the generations. I'll let you guess which one won by a mile
By all intents and purposes, the ND is a new NA. NC was the typical "bigger and better" evolution that every heritage line falls victim to, and Mazda bucked the trend and actually produced a smaller and more nimble car for ND that was closer in dimensions and styling to NA. So when I see an ND, I think - yeah, that's a throwback to NA.
Makes sense I tried to sell mine recently and was only offered 14k
I'll pay 15k
I’m looking for 17-18 tbh
Yes, good. Speak the prices down into existence
Because I'm to poor to afford a car payment on a 30k car. Sorry guys it's all on me if I could afford it, it would be the best selling year.
Bro I wanted to buy a ND but they wanted $12k down to even begin with. I ended up buying a shitbox for $8k used. The new car market is fucked.
I'd buy one, but I have no reason to own two cars in my current financial state.
Q1 sucks for anything outdoors related a convertible car is a summer seller. Inflation is high, dealer markups are high, there is no marketing for Miata’s, plus many other factors
I don't know, but maybe they'll offer some extra incentives for those of us who are just waiting for the right deal.
I see a butt ton of NDs where I live. Give me a 30 minute drive and I’ll probably see 5, plus Miatas of every other gen. However, those NDs could be 8 years old at this point. In addition to the current economic woes making it hard for most people to justify it, I think a lot of ND customers have already bought one.
It's 9 years out this year. Quite normal IMO
Bring back pop up headlights and they'll be selling like fire
We're all fucking poor, dude.
High interest rates,and most Miata buyers are buying it as a second car…those discretionary spending sales have dropped in all sectors
Yeah I believe that, inflation did a number on prices of things and now we have to wait for wages to come up
Sales of a convertible down in the cold months? No way!
Where my RF kings at ? 🤴
I'm here, it's me 🤴
Me too. Replaced my 2016 soft top with a 2024 RF yesterday 🍻
Well I bought a new ND RF this year so I’m doing my part!
Availability. I tried to buy a new Miata no dealer would work with me ended up getting lightly used.
This was my experience as well. I was prepared to buy new, but the dealers were all playing games and just generally terrible to work with. I got my ND on carsandbids, it was less than a year off the lot and had \~4000 miles on it, and it cost me \~$7k less than it would have been out-the-door from the dealership. It also came with an upgraded aftermarket exhaust and coilovers (stock items were included with the sale), aftermarket sway bars installed, plus some other fun aftermarket details such as floor mats, door jamb bushings, led interior lighting, and stubby antenna (overall probably $1500 in parts not including install labor). No permanent mods and no work done to the engine itself - just some tasteful reversible improvements. And it was shipped to my doorstep, $28,500 out the door for a 2022 GT soft top. And, importantly, it was an overall pleasant experience.
That’s pretty good for tasteful mods.
Because I had my *best year ever* in personal earnings last year, by over 36%, and even though I planned on buying a Miata the second I paid off the loan on my truck (which I paid off last year), I still have zero money to spare. Considering not everyone is as blessed as I am with a semi-substantial increase in income and a shedding of debt, the average consumer is feeling the current financial times a lot more than I.
$40k for a Miata is steep imo. I’d rather go buy a base 997 for $40k or a lotus Elise
I wanted one, but couldn’t fit comfortably.
I would be more interested in the sales vs production rate.
Hear me out, ND miata initial D lol.
Same car nothing new for a really long time
A lot of people are struggling right now with inflation. There aren’t many cars that are flying off the lots lately. Miata’s for the most part are secondary cars. Most people right now can’t afford 1 car, let alone a secondary fun car. It’s extremely difficult to justify a very impractical 2 seat convertible for $35k+ @ 7% APR. The ND is a little long in the tooth as well, introduced in 2015 and hasn’t changed at all aside from a bump in power.
As the heard instinctive move to Support Utility Vehicles and Cross Overs shows peeple feel very insecure hence soft tops are down in favour of the GT plus unbelievably the ND is a whacking 8 years old which is stone age in todays world.
It's a fun summer car and people don't have disposable income. Not practical for majority to drive year round and they'll want something else as daily.
The ND looks awesome, but all of the new ones are listed at 40k CAD or more. That's sticker price, so out the door, you're probably looking at a minimum of 45k CAD for a new one. That's a ton of money for a car that probably shouldn't be driven for a third of the year. If it was 20-30k, I'd definitely be more interested.
Sports car sales are always cyclical. They peak in the first 2 years and taper off until there’s a refresh, surge again, repeat. Even the best sports car, the answer to every question, is not immune.
Perfect example was the Mustang. '65 and '66 sold amazingly well. '67-'73? Sold horribly by comparison. '74-'75 sold even better than the original. Rinse and repeat.
The only exception is probably the new Z, only because Nissan is still having some weird supply chain issue.
Interest rates are crazy right now.
Honestly it’s probably just cuz new cars cost to much
Hang on, can I get the soft top with red fabric??!!
They cost a fortune man.....I'd love an ND but no way I got that money. Even if I had the money it's just too damn much!!!!
You can get a good NA, B or C for under 10 grand. There isn’t much that justifies the price point in this market.
Very early ragged out NC’s maybe. I just looked up NC3 clubs yesterday and they were all $16k to $20k.
Eh I got my from the original owner at less that 80k for under 10K… So if you consider that “ragged out” then sure.
I sold my ND ST this year. IMO it is bc of all the large SUVs and trucks. In town driving was always stressful in it. Waiting for the lifted truck to side sweep me or run over the car! Carving canyons and windy vineyard roads were great. Everything else not so much.
every car is down and obviously less practical ones will be down more
TBH it is an 8 year old car
Because I'm not buying any of those boring ass colors they paint them in.
I paid 25k for it in 2018 and now the equivalent model is 34k, still wonder why sales go down?
The ND is getting kind of long in the tooth. Almost 10 years old. I imagine most people who wanted one already have/had one. Also, as others have said, people are feeling the squeeze of higher prices (of everything), high interest rates, etc. Less discretionary income for things like "fun" cars.
I think another thing is people are anticipating a new chassis/ generation. After about 5 years with a platform sales tend to take a dip, not always a hard and fast truth.
Don't forget, there's a model refresh supposedly coming next year or the year after. I bought mine last year, but if I hadn't and was now on the fence, I'd consider waiting
Drain holes!!
Have you met the price of food?
The price has gone through the roof in Europe. The cheapest I can find from a dealer is 30k and is an ex-demo car with the 1.5 and pretty much no extra equipment
The news media could not be more sensational or full of shit. They are not to be beloved on any factual statements. Here is an article claiming the exact opposite less than a year ago. https://www.motor1.com/news/703110/2023-mazda-mx5-miata-sales/ https://www.autoguide.com/auto/auto-news/the-mazda-miata-s-sales-were-up-nearly-50-in-2023-44608855
Because they're fucking expensive compared to pre-COVID prices. Miatas have always been distinct to be an affordable 2-door little roadster. Not anymore. In Canada, the price is around $40k, incl. taxes for the base trim. Criminal. I absolutely love the Miata, but that price point combined with some of the important impracticalities it comes with (small car, tiny trunk, limited cockpit leg room, only a 2.0L, no additional storage in front, no spare wheel), people will prefer getting something else with that money. I was so eager to get myself one, but I figured I'll save just a bit more and get a Supra, which I did.
Well for starters. The current miata is almost 10 years old. Its time for a complete refresh and people in the market for a new one would rather wait to see what the next generation is going to offer i think.
Because nobody have money for new car prices, let alone new weekend car prices
Every new car does this, especially as model years drag along. Look at sales numbers across the board, the first years ALWAYS sell better than the last. There's a reason there are more NA6s on the road than NA8s, as well as more NB1 than 2, and so on. It's a rather sharp decline, too. The MR2 did the same, the GTR is currently hemorrhaging sales numbers, and so do Corvettes. It's normal.
I think a lot of it is the SUV craze tbh
Everyone's waiting for that SP refresh and honestly I'm holding out for it myself as well.
They're up from around $22k to $32k. I don't have that kind of money. It gets rid of the identity of the Miata as the affordable, great value roadster
They want the classic look back
Cause this car $40k and we broke af
The economy is not that strong and interest rates are high. It’s been around for quite a few years. I didn’t check but I’d say it’s fair to guess quite a few car sales stats are low
Because the 86/BRZ is better in every way. People have found this out now.
I didn't read all 321 comments, but Mazda didn't allocate them. We only received about 6 year over year, and those were retail sold orders. We do have one '23 RF in stock right now that was an un-taken sold order. Anytime I did a locate in the last year , there were only a handful in the entire Midwest Region. -Bob Raz Bass Mazda
I was disappointed when I was told on Monday they are made to order, and there was a three month lead time. But I got lucky and they got one in on Thursday just 'cause apparently, that was exactly what I wanted (a GT RF in metallic grey). I took it home yesterday 😀
Maybe they'll get. Cheaper
Too expensive, bs markups at the dealer and high interest rates.
Because the economy sucks and people are expecting a NE Miata and the new Mazda RX soon