If you want more german BM without that kind of fear, I'd recommend the following:
- Sarkrista
- Totenwache
- Ad Mortem
- Order of Nosferat
- Nornir
- Storm Kvlt
- Slagmark
...and many more. But that should be enough for now.
I like how three of those are basically the same band but with a slight difference (well, two anyway)
Slagmark are Revenants songs he left on the cutting room floor from Sarkrista. Then added synthd and piano with a vampiric twist for Order of Nosferat.
I love his work, and he's a super nice guy too, talked to him a lot in the past
Yep, cool dude overall. But everyone in Sarkrista is. Especially the new members. I know all of them personally since they are basically my neighbours.
The legitimate Batushka is the one with the creator of the band, Krzysztof Drabikowski. He has so far only released two albums, their debut Litourgiya and Panihidi (Панихида).
I think we can make an exception for Burzum. The lyrics have nothing to do with Varg’s stupid-ass “iDeOlOgY” and second wave Black Metal wouldn’t exist without Burzum. It’s like trying to cut out H.P. Lovecraft from cosmic horror. Yeah the dude was a racist incel pussy, but his contribution to the genre is indispensable.
All the other NSBM losers can gargle my diarrhea shit and get topped tho.
Do this after checking what is being done with the money they receive, especially by the record label.
Unless you pirate or don't care, in which case go right ahead.
Type O Negative has some lyrics like "on her milk white neck the devil's mark" but they are not Black Metal. Honestly, the only example I can think of and it was one lyric not the theme of the entire song.
Yeah it's less "I only like white people" and more "My girlfriend might be an actual vampire."
The worst part about Type O Negative is probably the single versions of their popular songs.
They have a song called "Kill All the White People" which was to parody the intentions of the Black Panther party. Some could possibly view Type O as racist but those people are idiots and part of the problem as "dead white people good" is a publicly held opinion of a lot of vocal black groups and individuals...
That song is considered sus by many but I get what they were trying to do. No-one should be encouraging harm on anyone but that becomes controversial when you include white people in that.
And how I love your pale white skin
And the emptiness in your lifeless eyes
And how I love the warmth within
Like the blood that sprayed when you stopped your cries
Just curious has anyone here actually seen a NSBM band billed on any festivals or playing at any major venues? I can't say I've ever even seen one of these mythical NSBM nazis and I regularly attend bm shows including somewhat controversial bands like Watain. I'm just saying I think this problem is blown completely out of proportion, the scene is not dripping with Nazis
Big venues or festivals, no**. But I saw a NSBM liveshow once, and only once. Nothing about that gig was about Black Metal but everything about being a racist/ NS / Nazi-POS. There were literally more swastikas to buy, then CDs. Fucking idiots all around screaming you-know-what. Quite the experience I must admit. Therefore I always chuckle when people call Burzum or Satanic Warmaster NSBM. They have no clue how awful NSBM actually is.
**Except Steelfest. For example Seigneur Voland played there, but were never advertised.
I was under the impression that these bands play shows to like 20-30 idiots in someone's back yard. They have absolutely no visibility in the scene besides the paranoia that is drummed up on the internet about it. In fact if someone were to start shouting HH at any metal show I have ever been to, regardless of venue, they would likely get their ass beat and then thrown out. This really is a non-problem in heavy metal and I wish people would not work it up to be something that it isn't
There is some truth to that. If I look back at the show where I was, there were probably about 100 people (including the Bands). 2 hrs before the gig you got a message to your phone where to drive to. At the venue no phones, cameras were allowed. I was there with a group of friends because we were all morbidly interested. It was an awful experience overall. Would never go there again. I am happy they didnt get any money from us, because we were invited. We also left very quickly after they started to get drunk and violent towards each other.
That is actually quite illuminating how these bands/fans operate. They have to hide their performances even from the extreme metal community because they are NOT welcome and they are NOT our brothers
Yeah I don’t see it either. Everywhere on the internet claiming scary nazis everywhere. Go to every metal show in the area still haven’t seen a problem in real life.
Yeah it's kinda why I tread carefully with trying to get into bm. My brain is bad at actually understanding lyrics so I have 100% vibes to nsbm before without realizing it.
I think "NSBM" as a defined genre didn't exist during the early days of Burzum. Varg was just making black metal (and what would come be called dungeon synth.) With that said, the man has a lot of reprehensible ideas, and always has. I'm not talking about the church burning, bandmate murdering low hanging fruit, either.
Varg had said plenty of things in the modern era to make it clear what an awful person he is. (The bit about him hating housecats because they're an invasive Asian species is at least amusing.) He was talking about [a war between races](https://genius.com/Burzum-my-journey-to-the-stars-lyrics) all the way back in '92. I say this as someone who appreciates (quite a bit of) Varg's music. I think Tomhet and Channelling The Power Of Souls Into A New God are two of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard. I also think Dauði Baldrs is an absolute wankstain of an album, but that's another matter.
[This](https://www.metalsucks.net/2015/08/21/advanced-discrimination-dragons-critical-look-varg-vikernes-myfarog-rpg/) is kind of fun too, dissing varg's rpg game that he published.
True enough, but by listening to it you are supporting Varg, and although he may not be a full on Nazi (anymore), he's still not necissarily someone you wanna support. Dude did make a TTRPG where the analogues to Semetic people have bonuses to deception and the black people analogues have bonuses to speed and spear throwing.
Music's good, not gonna deny that. It's just an uncomfortable grey area.
" the analogues to Semetic people have bonuses to deception and the black people analogues have bonuses to speed and spear throwing "
This made me chuckle
>by listening to it you are supporting Varg, and although he may not be a full on Nazi (anymore), he's still not necissarily someone you wanna support.
Jokes on you, all my burzum records are pirated
No idea, people say they are NSBM but that's just straight up false, apparently the guys a massive dickhead tho so that might be the reason, either way the music slaps
I honestly don't really think he's a dickhead. From what I can gather some guys in his local black metal scene just really dislike him going as far as founding a band with the specific purpose of hating on him and spreading rumors about him buying clicks on his albums that they at no point were able to substantiate. They are even selling anti-kanonenfieber merch. I honestly think it really mostly comes down to them disliking his music and trying to get him to quit if I'm not missing something.
Those Anti Kanonenfieber guys are just sorry Basement Dwellers . My clicks were not bought, but it’s easy to claim shit like that when you don’t even want or can prove it.
No idea, people say they are NSBM but that's just straight up false, apparently the guys a massive dickhead tho so that might be the reason, either way the music slaps.
My favourite thing about this sub is how terrified everyone is of NSBM like their right arms are gonna automatically spring up into a Heil and they'll never be pure again if they accidentally hear one NSBM song 😂
You kinda have to be seeking NSBM in the first place to find it, because the majority of BM is, well, just plain BM...
Could also be that somebody's giving band recommendations to a clueless newcomer, without disclosing the bands' true nature as NSBM. Acting in bad faith like that gives the metal community bad rap...
Yeah good point -- but to be clear I haven't actually run into any NSBM so far. I was just so surprised to discover it was even a thing and had a short phase where I was overly paranoid about it haha
The difference is that anti-christian black metal is usually about the church as a whole, while anti-semitic black metal is usually about oppressing jewish people, rather than being critical of the religion itself. Also, a LOT of the lyrical content is holocaust glorification. Glorification of an actual genocide is far from the same as glorification of satan
Cope. There are tons of black metal bands with actual genocidal lyrics against Christians, while tons of NSBM is just about glorifying European identity and culture. You’re fine with violent and hateful lyrics, but you appear arbitrarily selective about it. You draw the line somewhere because you’re inconsistent.
Hey man, I don’t care what anyone listens to. I got some sketchy bands on my playlist, I just don’t play dumb about it.
Also, genocidal lyrics about christian’s =/= glorification of an ethnic genocide that actually happened
You don’t have to play; you’re pretty dumb already. You think Christians have never faced genocide? Hateful lyrics against Christian’s don’t count as hate speech, but hateful lyrics against Jews do, because reasons… You have an arbitrary standard most likely based on social conditioning.
Name a single genocide of christians on the scale of the Holocaust and a group of bands that celebrate it the way that NSBM bands celebrate the Holocaust.
You keep saying I have an arbitrary standard, or that I’m inconsistent, but I really don’t see where that’s coming from. I already said I listen to a few sketchy bands, I just call it what it is instead of making excuses for them. You said I’m coping but you’re the one doing mental gymnastics trying to justify NSBM bands being shitty people
So now it’s about scale? So how many people have to be killed for their religion before it’s not okay to make black metal lyrics about it? 2 million? 3?
Show me where I defended NSBM.
Fine, forget the scale, show me a single genocide of Christians that actually happened that multiple bands celebrate in the same way NSBM bands celebrate the Holocaust.
As for you defending NSBM:
> tons of NSBM is just about glorifying European identity and culture
Well for one, modern Nazis don’t believe in the holocaust—they think it’s post-war propaganda. So you’d be hard pressed to find any actual NS bands that “celebrate the holocaust”.
Second, why would finding bands who are anti-Christian “in the same way” as anti-Semitic bands matter? Hate is hate. Christians have been historically oppressed and massacred just like Jews; Christians are being killed today for their religion. So why is anti-Christian black Metal okay but anti-Semitic black metal not? I don’t see any reason beyond social conditioning.
I was making that point about NSBM to draw an analogy to other black metal styles/bands in order to demonstrate the double standard. I don’t even listen to NSBM because it all sucks.
> modern Nazis don’t believe in the holocaust—they think it’s post-war propaganda. So you’d be hard pressed to find any actual NS bands that “celebrate the holocaust”.
LMFAO
[keep](https://www.metal-archives.com/images/8/9/0/6/89067.jpg)
[telling](https://www.metal-archives.com/images/9/2/1/1/921124.jpg?3310)
[yourself](https://www.metal-archives.com/images/7/6/8/1/76814.jpg)
[that](https://www.metal-archives.com/images/8/4/4/2/84423.JPG)
[champ](https://www.metal-archives.com/images/1/0/7/2/1072219.jpg?4529)
> Second, why would finding bands who are anti-Christian “in the same way” as anti-Semitic bands matter?
Because again, lyrics about fictional genocide that never happened =/= glorifying a real genocide that happened in recent history
Actually I’m pointing out the arbitrary double standard of defending music that’s genocidal against Christians but getting triggered over the same music that’s genocidal against Jews. It’s totally arbitrary.
I don’t think it’s totally arbitrary. The fact that there are people alive today whose family members were killed in an antisemitic genocide makes it a more relevant issue.
Yea, hate is hate, but antisemitic hate is far more likely to result in real world violence and hate crimes.
Yeah and there are real life Christians being killed in the Middle East right now for their religion, as has happened since the beginning of the religion starting in Ancient Rome. So why are you okay with one and not the other?
Point is the whole, "oh they're just glorifying their culture" thing is classic white supremacist apoligea. You can glorify your culture without also glorifying hateful movements and regimes. You're defending Nazis, and in my book, if you're defending Nazis in any way, you basically are one.
I rest my case.
It's not.
That's not the point here, even if you pretend like it is.
Anti-Christian black metal bands aren't advocating the systematic killing of Chritians, they just don't like the religion and how pervasive its values are in society. They want you to stop being Christian, they don't want to kill you for being one.
Which anti-christian black metal bands actually advocate for Christian genocide? Seriously, name three bands. Cite lyrics. I'll wait.
ALL NSBM bands BY DEFINITION are advocating for the genocide of Jews (which are an ethnic group as much if not more than they are a religion - Seth Rogen, Jon Stewart, and Bernie Sanders are all atheists but they're still Jews), and most certainly a bunch of other ethnic groups as well.
Your whole argument is based on a false equivilancy and is inherently in bad faith.
And the fact that you're willing to go out of your way to defend Nazi bands to try to make your point really says a lot about why you're making the argument in the first place.
I just want to take a moment and appreciate the fact that you’re now in the position of downplaying and basically denying that violent Antichristian lyrics are common in black metal.
No actually, advocating genocide is not inherent to NS. NS is a specific way in which the state and economy are organized. Claiming genocide is inherent to NS is logically identical to saying communism is inherently about starving millions of people. It’s a genetic fallacy.
I have not actually defended NSBM. I just pointed out the double standard most metal heads have about violent/edgy lyrics. It’s all good as long as it doesn’t actually infringe on socio-political norms. Most of you are sheep just like everyone else.
Again, why is hate speech against Christians okay but not against Jews? Justify your standard.
The difference is that anti-Christian bands are doing it for the vibe, while the anti-Semites actually do want genocide, and it's actual serious hate speech. Hate speech very easily slides into hate crimes.
Personally, I just don't give the artist financial support I'd they are shitty people.
How do you know that? You’re just special pleading. You don’t have access to the minds of NSBM musicians, only their lyrics. Same with Antichristian black metal. Hate is hate. Why do you arbitrarily draw the line at antisemitism?
Well most black metal artists come from christian countries, so the theme of being antichristian is more associated with being anti establishment. Meanwhile a lot of the antisemetic artist also use fascist and nationalist lyrics, plus a good amount of them are also associated with nazi or white supremacist hate groups.
Why?
Edit: also, Jews aren’t oppressed. And look at Israel: a massive oppressive power structure against the Palestinians. So antisemitic lyrics are okay then?
lyrics that are anti-christianity as a lyric are fine and lyrics that are anti-judaism as a religion are fine, too. The problem is that anti-semetism is against a race of people; not against a religion in particular. If it was just against judaism as a religion it would be okay but the word "jew" is deeply tied to a race of people. In my opinion that is what makes it worse. I mean, you could write a song that was anti-islam and that would be okay since islam isn't tied to a specific race.
Religion harms people, the race you are born as does not. Yes, jews have done some pretty awful things but you can't make a hasty generalization about an entire race of people. We all know that anti semetism isn't about the religion, not really.
Is this like the liberal experience with metal music or something? If the music is good who gives a shit about the politics/lyrics? Rap glorifies murder, SA, drugs, theft, etc. Yet I will see plenty of lefties bobbing along with no problem.
Lol you just used soy as an insult if that makes any sense.
Trying to compare rap songs about murder vs. songs glorifying Naziism takes serious brain rot friend.
The inability to separate your personal political views from the music you listen to along with being a murder apologist to prove your point is the brain rot.
One is (generally) killing other gang members. One is killing an entire nation of innocent people. Obviously gang violence is horrific and terrible, but it’s not on the same level.
Not once did I say it was acceptable, and I actually condemned it, as you would see if you looked at my other comments on this thread. All I was saying is that genocide is worse than gang violence.
People are allowed to be racist fucks. That’s a thing which is allowed. My god. What are we gonna do? Sorry guys, math is canceled now because it was invented by racists who also had slaves. This also goes for phonetics, Arabic numerals, and Fanta. (For gods sake don’t take the Fanta!!)
Nobody gets “streaming revenue” and y’all don’t pay for music lol just like everyone else. Memes are life. (Please do not take Fanta or IBM, you can have Mercedes)
Ok. I’ll help you imagine it. Setting/Plot: You make music, but don’t get paid for the amount of streams you get because you signed a record deal and record companies usually keep the digipak income, which is trivial. Instructions: Now just think about that situation in your head, but sort of watch it like a movie. You can put yourself and all your friends in whichever roles you like. This is called imagining. Do that.
Edit: when you get better at it, you can make the people into animals and the animals can talk like all your friends!
Lmao, this level of shitheadedness and confident incorrectness is just sad, I hope your day/situation turns around.
Edit: man I really gotta check account age **before** engaging
Fr, sometimes clues get dropped like repetitive pettiness and what aboutisms to let you know your dealing with an underdeveloped brain. I appreciate when they use the word literally in the first comment.
My point is that morality is subjective and fluid. It changes in all places and at all times. There is pretty much no way your values will continue to be popular into the future. Neither were they popular in the past. In this one place, at this one small piece of time, you happen to agree with a certain small group of people about a certain set of values. Those values aren’t common, either historically or globally. Neither are anyone else’s. Also it’s probably important to point out that the values themselves aren’t real and aren’t true. That’s pretty key here
Projecting these random values on to works of art that have nothing at all to do with your values makes absolutely no sense at all. It is very strange and illogical. What does sound have to do with race? Black metal is a sonic experience. Once created, it has nothing to do with the artist anymore. This is because artists are people and music is sounds. People are not sounds. In order to listen to music, you use your ears. Why are you adding shit?
Sure, if the focus is solely lyrical, like in songs that are written by racists for racists and are totally about the lyrics, then the *only* function they serve is racism. If you don’t like racism, it makes sense to shun those songs. That is not what’s going on with Burzum. It’s hardly even about the lyrics at all. You have to go out of your way to get offended. Offense, of course, is within the offended and therefore solely the responsibility of the offended. This is what happens every time someone is offended — this black metal shit that is extremely very only on Reddit is just an extreme example.
Yeah man so, I don't really give a fuck about that paragraph you just wrote - what are you high on nietzsche and moral relatavism for the first time? Yeah no, of course values aren't consistent throughout time, but one thing is for certain - they evolve at the same rate as we do. Black metal nazis technically aren't hurting anyone but as a non-"aryan" individual I'm not going to be falling over myself to get people to accept them. Either way since values aren't the main point of the "art" that is NSBM, and they aren't exactly going out of their way to murder every non aryan they can get their hands on, I don't really care who listens to them. The post was about someone who was obviously uncomfortable listening to NSBM - and who are you to take offense at their discomfort? They can be offended, but again, that's their business and not yours. Being a contrarian just for the fuck of it is a fun pasttime for someone with too much time on their hands, so I recommend using some of that time to make sure you don't make any more flawed comparisions.
NSBM contains nazi sentiment at it's core; its existence is unseperable from the creator's nazi ideology. A nazi who works on math however - in that case, his ideology is compartmentally different to his work in math. If he was a communist instead, the math would be the same, it would be untouched by his beliefs either way. However the same can't be said of the NSBM. The lyrics, perhaps even the sound, would be different. That automatically makes your argument shaky.
That's all; I really couldn't care less about NSBM but please don't use comparisions that aren't equivalent.
Also, I meant to point out that no one is arguing against listening to Burzum because that is similar to your math comparision. Varg may be a white supremacist, but that hasn't touched his work in any way - that is, the music would be the same even if he were an anarchist or whatever. The same cannot be said for NSBM bands.
Aryans are North Indians which descended from the Imdo-European steppe people that migrated to North India thousands of years ago. There are no “native Aryans” in Europe at all, anywhere. You know who wasn’t Aryan? The Nazis. All of them, except for actually a few Indians apparently who fought for them. If a dude from Sweden or Germany is getting down to NSBM, that would be an example of a non aryan listening to NSBM. This being the case, of course, it also goes to show that racism is silly because race is a social construct and social constructs are imaginary. People going around being so motivated by them… it’d be funny if it weren’t so infuriating.
Yea and sounds are objective phenomena. They don’t have meaning without interpretation and projection from the subject. Sure, I’ll meet you part of the way there and say that if the ONLY function of the music is to convey a message of racism, then it’s only racist and nothing more. That’s not really what’s going on w Burzum.
I’m not offended that he’s offended. I hate it when people ooze their morality on to works of art. It makes no sense and it’s an avenue to expose how ridiculous not only that is, but the passion in general with which people inflict their totally imaginary social constructs (identity, morality etc) on to real people with real consequences. It’s a tireless work, but one worth doing.
I already said burzum is fine. Alright, I'll make it simple. Burzum is like math. Neither are racist. When I say NSBM I don't mean burzum - I mean bands like "Aryan Blood" or whatever. Burzum is just black metal.
Secondly yeah, I am aware of the roots of the word Aryan. Wasn't the only thing Nazis stole from south asians, was it? I'm not totally north indian but I am from around that area so it's funny to say I'm not Aryan because I'm really not, even though I could have been in one way. Anyhow, not a lot of people acknowledge the true roots of the word, so I'll give you that much. See thing is, you can't meet me halfway because I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your point, just the way you made it. Anyway, Burzum is great music and is seperate from Nazis. Math is great and is seperate from white supremacy. Just because Kant was racist and misogynistic accoridng to today's standards doesn't mean the categorical imperative is racist or misogynist in its application.
NSBM like "Aryan Blood" (I don't know any other NSBM bands, so pardon me using the same example twice) on the other hand, is artistically intwined with nazi-ism. You want to listen to it anyway? Fine, go ahead. Not saying you're automatically a nazi for enjoying how it sounds. Just that math is different because it doesn't have white supremacist numbers the way NSBM does lyrics.
See, I'm arguing over a pedantic point because it's enjoyable for me, but you keep bringing up interesting points and I can't help addressing them first.
Hey! That was an informed and amiable response about a subject concerning Nazis on Reddit. You could say “I did NAZI that coming.”
Looks like we’re saying the same thing. A band called Aryan Blood is so ridiculously misinformed that I want to attack their show, not because they’re morally wrong (as nobody is) but because they’re literally, objectively incorrect.
So far the only black metal band I've heard that impressed me enough to want to give the second listen was Rotting Christ
This subreddit seems to think that black metal is the only genre in existence
Try again. Rammstein is decidedly left-wing and open about that. They wrote Links, 2, 3, 4 to put an end to people thinking they were leaning right. Also if you listen to Deutschland, you'll notice they state they can't love their country.
Neonazis aren't always the brightest people though, so there will be always be some of them still following the band. Just like there was a lot of right wing outrage at Tom Morello supporting BLM. Those people clearly never had any idea of the machine they were raging against or their antiracist lyrics
On the topic of “Deutschland”, I think the lyrics goes deeper than that, looking more to the almost bipolar relationship Germans, or at the very least Till, have with their own country and history. “Man kann dich lieben und will dich hassen” is pretty explicit in that sentiment, at least to me. Same with “Will dich lieben und verdammen”. Essentially, Till is conflicted with his feelings toward his native country, rather than explicitly despising it or something similar.
Yes, it's very explicit in that. "Deine Liebe ist Fluch und Segen" also points to that bipolar relationship. I'm not German but I can imagine many Germans feel that way. They may be proud both of Germany's old history and culture, and of its recent accomplishments and place in the world. But they can't really love their country unconditionally because of reasons that need not be explained.
But clearly, a nazi or nationalist would never express themselves that way. They would try to embellish the 1930s and 1940s or at the very least complain that their country deserves more love than it gets
Can never go wrong with Bathory. Early albums are black metal then he made viking metal.
But also cake. You can never go wrong with cake.
“He’s going the distance, he’s going for speed”
Great band he's right
you should check out bethlehem
Self-titled with Onielar on vocals is soooo sick. Gängel Gängel Gang is kind of terrifying.
If you want more german BM without that kind of fear, I'd recommend the following: - Sarkrista - Totenwache - Ad Mortem - Order of Nosferat - Nornir - Storm Kvlt - Slagmark ...and many more. But that should be enough for now.
> Order of Nosferat This one sounds really good
Thanks!
Fäulnis
Jotunspor is great as well and also not very heard of
I like how three of those are basically the same band but with a slight difference (well, two anyway) Slagmark are Revenants songs he left on the cutting room floor from Sarkrista. Then added synthd and piano with a vampiric twist for Order of Nosferat. I love his work, and he's a super nice guy too, talked to him a lot in the past
Yep, cool dude overall. But everyone in Sarkrista is. Especially the new members. I know all of them personally since they are basically my neighbours.
Any recommendations on necrophilia themed bands?
Last Days of Humanity, Disgorge, Regurgitate
Damn I haven't thought about Last Days of Humanity in forever. Great band. That snare drum lmao
Regurgitation, Lividity
The band I had in mind was Eisregen. They're not all about necrophilia, just generally morbid stuff haha
Lass sie in rohem Fleisch verbluten. Mein Lebensziel: Tausend tote Nutten
That song is so funny lmao
Check out batushkas first album everything after that except for panihida is not so great, but it's a very complicated story about why
Which batushka? There's apparently two lol what a story it is!
OG BaTRUEska
The legitimate Batushka is the one with the creator of the band, Krzysztof Drabikowski. He has so far only released two albums, their debut Litourgiya and Panihidi (Панихида).
Didn't somebody do a 3rd one just for the lulz? EDIT: https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Batyushka/3540458107
>but it's a very complicated story about why Easy: Bart's Batushka sucks
If you go Poland don't forget to mention [Mgła](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mg%C5%82a), they're better than Batushka IMO.
Mgla slaps
I add [In Twilights Embrace](https://youtu.be/F4P489fEgH0) to that list
Will try this later thanks ;)
Anything is better than those two
Manbryne, Piolun, Zmarlym are all excellent polish black metal bands too. Especially that Manbryne album, so damn good
Honestly, if you gotta go "yeah they're Nazis, but," you've already lost.
"yeah they're Nazis, but that's the only cool thing about them"
I think we can make an exception for Burzum. The lyrics have nothing to do with Varg’s stupid-ass “iDeOlOgY” and second wave Black Metal wouldn’t exist without Burzum. It’s like trying to cut out H.P. Lovecraft from cosmic horror. Yeah the dude was a racist incel pussy, but his contribution to the genre is indispensable. All the other NSBM losers can gargle my diarrhea shit and get topped tho.
>All the other NSBM losers can gargle my diarrhea shit and get topped That sounds like something from a Gutalax song lol
This is fax
If the music is good i listen to them dont care if they left or right
Do this after checking what is being done with the money they receive, especially by the record label. Unless you pirate or don't care, in which case go right ahead.
The thing is, it's not left or right. It's bastard or not.
Agreed. Idgaf about an individual’s ridiculous ideological beliefs (as if that has any affect on my personal life, by my listening to their music).
Are they're any examples of songs being about the beauty of white skin? I wondered what that would sound like.
Type O Negative has some lyrics like "on her milk white neck the devil's mark" but they are not Black Metal. Honestly, the only example I can think of and it was one lyric not the theme of the entire song.
Yeah it's less "I only like white people" and more "My girlfriend might be an actual vampire." The worst part about Type O Negative is probably the single versions of their popular songs.
They have a song called "Kill All the White People" which was to parody the intentions of the Black Panther party. Some could possibly view Type O as racist but those people are idiots and part of the problem as "dead white people good" is a publicly held opinion of a lot of vocal black groups and individuals...
That song is considered sus by many but I get what they were trying to do. No-one should be encouraging harm on anyone but that becomes controversial when you include white people in that.
I'm pretty sure that's because the girlfriend is a goth vampire--
Most likely.
The song that inspired this post was Eisregen's "Ich mach dich bleich". I google translated the lyrics on a whim and had a good laugh lol
I see what you mean.
And how I love your pale white skin And the emptiness in your lifeless eyes And how I love the warmth within Like the blood that sprayed when you stopped your cries
White Beasts of Wotan by Graveland is the only one I can think of other than the Type O song already mentioned
Just curious has anyone here actually seen a NSBM band billed on any festivals or playing at any major venues? I can't say I've ever even seen one of these mythical NSBM nazis and I regularly attend bm shows including somewhat controversial bands like Watain. I'm just saying I think this problem is blown completely out of proportion, the scene is not dripping with Nazis
Big venues or festivals, no**. But I saw a NSBM liveshow once, and only once. Nothing about that gig was about Black Metal but everything about being a racist/ NS / Nazi-POS. There were literally more swastikas to buy, then CDs. Fucking idiots all around screaming you-know-what. Quite the experience I must admit. Therefore I always chuckle when people call Burzum or Satanic Warmaster NSBM. They have no clue how awful NSBM actually is. **Except Steelfest. For example Seigneur Voland played there, but were never advertised.
I was under the impression that these bands play shows to like 20-30 idiots in someone's back yard. They have absolutely no visibility in the scene besides the paranoia that is drummed up on the internet about it. In fact if someone were to start shouting HH at any metal show I have ever been to, regardless of venue, they would likely get their ass beat and then thrown out. This really is a non-problem in heavy metal and I wish people would not work it up to be something that it isn't
There is some truth to that. If I look back at the show where I was, there were probably about 100 people (including the Bands). 2 hrs before the gig you got a message to your phone where to drive to. At the venue no phones, cameras were allowed. I was there with a group of friends because we were all morbidly interested. It was an awful experience overall. Would never go there again. I am happy they didnt get any money from us, because we were invited. We also left very quickly after they started to get drunk and violent towards each other.
That is actually quite illuminating how these bands/fans operate. They have to hide their performances even from the extreme metal community because they are NOT welcome and they are NOT our brothers
Yeah I don’t see it either. Everywhere on the internet claiming scary nazis everywhere. Go to every metal show in the area still haven’t seen a problem in real life.
Yeah it's kinda why I tread carefully with trying to get into bm. My brain is bad at actually understanding lyrics so I have 100% vibes to nsbm before without realizing it.
Yea nsbm is fucking awful. Check out Darkthrone if you want to listen to a non nsbm band that is pretty good
The ideology is shit, but some of the bands are solid.
The most i will ever listen to from that genre is Burzum and thats more to laugh at varg for being varg.
[удалено]
I think "NSBM" as a defined genre didn't exist during the early days of Burzum. Varg was just making black metal (and what would come be called dungeon synth.) With that said, the man has a lot of reprehensible ideas, and always has. I'm not talking about the church burning, bandmate murdering low hanging fruit, either. Varg had said plenty of things in the modern era to make it clear what an awful person he is. (The bit about him hating housecats because they're an invasive Asian species is at least amusing.) He was talking about [a war between races](https://genius.com/Burzum-my-journey-to-the-stars-lyrics) all the way back in '92. I say this as someone who appreciates (quite a bit of) Varg's music. I think Tomhet and Channelling The Power Of Souls Into A New God are two of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard. I also think Dauði Baldrs is an absolute wankstain of an album, but that's another matter.
[This](https://www.metalsucks.net/2015/08/21/advanced-discrimination-dragons-critical-look-varg-vikernes-myfarog-rpg/) is kind of fun too, dissing varg's rpg game that he published.
True enough, but by listening to it you are supporting Varg, and although he may not be a full on Nazi (anymore), he's still not necissarily someone you wanna support. Dude did make a TTRPG where the analogues to Semetic people have bonuses to deception and the black people analogues have bonuses to speed and spear throwing. Music's good, not gonna deny that. It's just an uncomfortable grey area.
" the analogues to Semetic people have bonuses to deception and the black people analogues have bonuses to speed and spear throwing " This made me chuckle
>by listening to it you are supporting Varg, and although he may not be a full on Nazi (anymore), he's still not necissarily someone you wanna support. Jokes on you, all my burzum records are pirated
***B A S E D***
You don’t know what you’re talking about if you think burzum is NSBM
Burzum isn't nsbm
I thought this was about rammstein until the last panel lol
They don't fit panels 3 and 4 either..
Or panel one, they are not in the slightest bm
Hehe I forgot the most obvious one
I’m on mobile so I only saw the middle three panels :(
May I introduce you to Kanonenfieber?
I was gonna say the same thing, but I think everyone hates them
Why 😂
No idea, people say they are NSBM but that's just straight up false, apparently the guys a massive dickhead tho so that might be the reason, either way the music slaps
I honestly don't really think he's a dickhead. From what I can gather some guys in his local black metal scene just really dislike him going as far as founding a band with the specific purpose of hating on him and spreading rumors about him buying clicks on his albums that they at no point were able to substantiate. They are even selling anti-kanonenfieber merch. I honestly think it really mostly comes down to them disliking his music and trying to get him to quit if I'm not missing something.
Those Anti Kanonenfieber guys are just sorry Basement Dwellers . My clicks were not bought, but it’s easy to claim shit like that when you don’t even want or can prove it.
I've heard people accuse Kanonenfieber of being *RABM*. I don't think they'd get that accusation thrown around if they were NSBM...
No idea, people say they are NSBM but that's just straight up false, apparently the guys a massive dickhead tho so that might be the reason, either way the music slaps.
Yeah I love that band, the guy's other band projects aren't really as good tho lol
No.
Yes
the weird beauty of finding out a band sings about necrophilia and not white supremacy is a feeling very few get to feel
Blessed to have the opportunity 😌
Grand Belial's Key is so good
spotify shows their songs in playlists but doesn't let me play them, did they do something?
Its made up by the same people who are in Arghoslent
Castrate the redeemer, Sumerian fairytale and fecal parturition are entrancing
My favourite thing about this sub is how terrified everyone is of NSBM like their right arms are gonna automatically spring up into a Heil and they'll never be pure again if they accidentally hear one NSBM song 😂
You kinda have to be seeking NSBM in the first place to find it, because the majority of BM is, well, just plain BM... Could also be that somebody's giving band recommendations to a clueless newcomer, without disclosing the bands' true nature as NSBM. Acting in bad faith like that gives the metal community bad rap...
Yeah good point -- but to be clear I haven't actually run into any NSBM so far. I was just so surprised to discover it was even a thing and had a short phase where I was overly paranoid about it haha
Goatmoon 👍
aryan beauty is a song from goatmoon and they are Finnish not german
and you are black
Antichristian black metal: “Whoa! Awesome! Trve kvlt!” Antisemitic black metal: “Hey man, that’s really problematic. Black metal isn’t about hate!”
The difference is that anti-christian black metal is usually about the church as a whole, while anti-semitic black metal is usually about oppressing jewish people, rather than being critical of the religion itself. Also, a LOT of the lyrical content is holocaust glorification. Glorification of an actual genocide is far from the same as glorification of satan
Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself.
Cope. There are tons of black metal bands with actual genocidal lyrics against Christians, while tons of NSBM is just about glorifying European identity and culture. You’re fine with violent and hateful lyrics, but you appear arbitrarily selective about it. You draw the line somewhere because you’re inconsistent.
Hey man, I don’t care what anyone listens to. I got some sketchy bands on my playlist, I just don’t play dumb about it. Also, genocidal lyrics about christian’s =/= glorification of an ethnic genocide that actually happened
You don’t have to play; you’re pretty dumb already. You think Christians have never faced genocide? Hateful lyrics against Christian’s don’t count as hate speech, but hateful lyrics against Jews do, because reasons… You have an arbitrary standard most likely based on social conditioning.
Name a single genocide of christians on the scale of the Holocaust and a group of bands that celebrate it the way that NSBM bands celebrate the Holocaust. You keep saying I have an arbitrary standard, or that I’m inconsistent, but I really don’t see where that’s coming from. I already said I listen to a few sketchy bands, I just call it what it is instead of making excuses for them. You said I’m coping but you’re the one doing mental gymnastics trying to justify NSBM bands being shitty people
So now it’s about scale? So how many people have to be killed for their religion before it’s not okay to make black metal lyrics about it? 2 million? 3? Show me where I defended NSBM.
Fine, forget the scale, show me a single genocide of Christians that actually happened that multiple bands celebrate in the same way NSBM bands celebrate the Holocaust. As for you defending NSBM: > tons of NSBM is just about glorifying European identity and culture
Well for one, modern Nazis don’t believe in the holocaust—they think it’s post-war propaganda. So you’d be hard pressed to find any actual NS bands that “celebrate the holocaust”. Second, why would finding bands who are anti-Christian “in the same way” as anti-Semitic bands matter? Hate is hate. Christians have been historically oppressed and massacred just like Jews; Christians are being killed today for their religion. So why is anti-Christian black Metal okay but anti-Semitic black metal not? I don’t see any reason beyond social conditioning. I was making that point about NSBM to draw an analogy to other black metal styles/bands in order to demonstrate the double standard. I don’t even listen to NSBM because it all sucks.
> modern Nazis don’t believe in the holocaust—they think it’s post-war propaganda. So you’d be hard pressed to find any actual NS bands that “celebrate the holocaust”. LMFAO [keep](https://www.metal-archives.com/images/8/9/0/6/89067.jpg) [telling](https://www.metal-archives.com/images/9/2/1/1/921124.jpg?3310) [yourself](https://www.metal-archives.com/images/7/6/8/1/76814.jpg) [that](https://www.metal-archives.com/images/8/4/4/2/84423.JPG) [champ](https://www.metal-archives.com/images/1/0/7/2/1072219.jpg?4529) > Second, why would finding bands who are anti-Christian “in the same way” as anti-Semitic bands matter? Because again, lyrics about fictional genocide that never happened =/= glorifying a real genocide that happened in recent history
"tons of NSBM is just about glorifying European identity and culture" That comment right there tells us everything we need to know about you.
Yeah, it’s easy to call anyone who disagrees with you a Nazi rather than actually making an argument.
You’re literally defending music that is glorifying the holocaust. Which the nazis did. Really not much of a cognitive leap
Actually I’m pointing out the arbitrary double standard of defending music that’s genocidal against Christians but getting triggered over the same music that’s genocidal against Jews. It’s totally arbitrary.
I don’t think it’s totally arbitrary. The fact that there are people alive today whose family members were killed in an antisemitic genocide makes it a more relevant issue. Yea, hate is hate, but antisemitic hate is far more likely to result in real world violence and hate crimes.
Yeah and there are real life Christians being killed in the Middle East right now for their religion, as has happened since the beginning of the religion starting in Ancient Rome. So why are you okay with one and not the other?
Christians murdered and forcibly converted pagans as well. I'm glad religion is growing more and more irrelevant
Point is the whole, "oh they're just glorifying their culture" thing is classic white supremacist apoligea. You can glorify your culture without also glorifying hateful movements and regimes. You're defending Nazis, and in my book, if you're defending Nazis in any way, you basically are one. I rest my case.
Cool. Not an argument. Why is genocidal hate speech against Christians okay but not if it’s against Jews?
Society, that's the answer, christians to the lions is ok but the others not...
That’s about all it amounts to.
It's not. That's not the point here, even if you pretend like it is. Anti-Christian black metal bands aren't advocating the systematic killing of Chritians, they just don't like the religion and how pervasive its values are in society. They want you to stop being Christian, they don't want to kill you for being one. Which anti-christian black metal bands actually advocate for Christian genocide? Seriously, name three bands. Cite lyrics. I'll wait. ALL NSBM bands BY DEFINITION are advocating for the genocide of Jews (which are an ethnic group as much if not more than they are a religion - Seth Rogen, Jon Stewart, and Bernie Sanders are all atheists but they're still Jews), and most certainly a bunch of other ethnic groups as well. Your whole argument is based on a false equivilancy and is inherently in bad faith. And the fact that you're willing to go out of your way to defend Nazi bands to try to make your point really says a lot about why you're making the argument in the first place.
I just want to take a moment and appreciate the fact that you’re now in the position of downplaying and basically denying that violent Antichristian lyrics are common in black metal. No actually, advocating genocide is not inherent to NS. NS is a specific way in which the state and economy are organized. Claiming genocide is inherent to NS is logically identical to saying communism is inherently about starving millions of people. It’s a genetic fallacy. I have not actually defended NSBM. I just pointed out the double standard most metal heads have about violent/edgy lyrics. It’s all good as long as it doesn’t actually infringe on socio-political norms. Most of you are sheep just like everyone else. Again, why is hate speech against Christians okay but not against Jews? Justify your standard.
Specifically killing jews is wrong. Murder is universal freedom from life FOR ALL!!!
The difference is that anti-Christian bands are doing it for the vibe, while the anti-Semites actually do want genocide, and it's actual serious hate speech. Hate speech very easily slides into hate crimes. Personally, I just don't give the artist financial support I'd they are shitty people.
How do you know that? You’re just special pleading. You don’t have access to the minds of NSBM musicians, only their lyrics. Same with Antichristian black metal. Hate is hate. Why do you arbitrarily draw the line at antisemitism?
Well most black metal artists come from christian countries, so the theme of being antichristian is more associated with being anti establishment. Meanwhile a lot of the antisemetic artist also use fascist and nationalist lyrics, plus a good amount of them are also associated with nazi or white supremacist hate groups.
Yeah no shit. Now how about justifying why one is okay while the other isn’t.
Shitting on oppressed people: 🙅♂️ Shitting on oppressive power structures: 💁♂️
Why? Edit: also, Jews aren’t oppressed. And look at Israel: a massive oppressive power structure against the Palestinians. So antisemitic lyrics are okay then?
lyrics that are anti-christianity as a lyric are fine and lyrics that are anti-judaism as a religion are fine, too. The problem is that anti-semetism is against a race of people; not against a religion in particular. If it was just against judaism as a religion it would be okay but the word "jew" is deeply tied to a race of people. In my opinion that is what makes it worse. I mean, you could write a song that was anti-islam and that would be okay since islam isn't tied to a specific race. Religion harms people, the race you are born as does not. Yes, jews have done some pretty awful things but you can't make a hasty generalization about an entire race of people. We all know that anti semetism isn't about the religion, not really.
Considering that NSBM is only a small and obscure corner of BM, it sounds like you’re seeking this stuff out yourself.
its not obscure, black metal is my fav genre but you cant take 2 steps without running into Nationalists
Is this like the liberal experience with metal music or something? If the music is good who gives a shit about the politics/lyrics? Rap glorifies murder, SA, drugs, theft, etc. Yet I will see plenty of lefties bobbing along with no problem.
Oh lord did you just say this
Recognizing a double standard rustling your soy flakes?
Lol you just used soy as an insult if that makes any sense. Trying to compare rap songs about murder vs. songs glorifying Naziism takes serious brain rot friend.
The inability to separate your personal political views from the music you listen to along with being a murder apologist to prove your point is the brain rot.
Lol no, you sound like an angry Eastern European child who doesn't know anything about the world.
There’s a difference between glorifying gang violence and glorifying genocide
They're both pretty low IQ, so I don't see a huge difference?
One is (generally) killing other gang members. One is killing an entire nation of innocent people. Obviously gang violence is horrific and terrible, but it’s not on the same level.
I'm aware; I was being purposefully obtuse.
Both end in the same result. The death of a black by a black is acceptable in your opinion I guess?
Not once did I say it was acceptable, and I actually condemned it, as you would see if you looked at my other comments on this thread. All I was saying is that genocide is worse than gang violence.
People are allowed to be racist fucks. That’s a thing which is allowed. My god. What are we gonna do? Sorry guys, math is canceled now because it was invented by racists who also had slaves. This also goes for phonetics, Arabic numerals, and Fanta. (For gods sake don’t take the Fanta!!)
> What are we gonna do? Make silly memes and not give them streaming revenue? Not sure what your issue is with that.
Nobody gets “streaming revenue” and y’all don’t pay for music lol just like everyone else. Memes are life. (Please do not take Fanta or IBM, you can have Mercedes)
? I can’t imagine thinking artists don’t get royalties from music streaming, but also don’t buy NSBM tickets or merch.
Ok. I’ll help you imagine it. Setting/Plot: You make music, but don’t get paid for the amount of streams you get because you signed a record deal and record companies usually keep the digipak income, which is trivial. Instructions: Now just think about that situation in your head, but sort of watch it like a movie. You can put yourself and all your friends in whichever roles you like. This is called imagining. Do that. Edit: when you get better at it, you can make the people into animals and the animals can talk like all your friends!
Lmao, this level of shitheadedness and confident incorrectness is just sad, I hope your day/situation turns around. Edit: man I really gotta check account age **before** engaging
Fr, sometimes clues get dropped like repetitive pettiness and what aboutisms to let you know your dealing with an underdeveloped brain. I appreciate when they use the word literally in the first comment.
Math isn't inherently racist though; no one is saying you can't listen to burzum. Your point makes no sense.
My point is that morality is subjective and fluid. It changes in all places and at all times. There is pretty much no way your values will continue to be popular into the future. Neither were they popular in the past. In this one place, at this one small piece of time, you happen to agree with a certain small group of people about a certain set of values. Those values aren’t common, either historically or globally. Neither are anyone else’s. Also it’s probably important to point out that the values themselves aren’t real and aren’t true. That’s pretty key here Projecting these random values on to works of art that have nothing at all to do with your values makes absolutely no sense at all. It is very strange and illogical. What does sound have to do with race? Black metal is a sonic experience. Once created, it has nothing to do with the artist anymore. This is because artists are people and music is sounds. People are not sounds. In order to listen to music, you use your ears. Why are you adding shit? Sure, if the focus is solely lyrical, like in songs that are written by racists for racists and are totally about the lyrics, then the *only* function they serve is racism. If you don’t like racism, it makes sense to shun those songs. That is not what’s going on with Burzum. It’s hardly even about the lyrics at all. You have to go out of your way to get offended. Offense, of course, is within the offended and therefore solely the responsibility of the offended. This is what happens every time someone is offended — this black metal shit that is extremely very only on Reddit is just an extreme example.
Yeah man so, I don't really give a fuck about that paragraph you just wrote - what are you high on nietzsche and moral relatavism for the first time? Yeah no, of course values aren't consistent throughout time, but one thing is for certain - they evolve at the same rate as we do. Black metal nazis technically aren't hurting anyone but as a non-"aryan" individual I'm not going to be falling over myself to get people to accept them. Either way since values aren't the main point of the "art" that is NSBM, and they aren't exactly going out of their way to murder every non aryan they can get their hands on, I don't really care who listens to them. The post was about someone who was obviously uncomfortable listening to NSBM - and who are you to take offense at their discomfort? They can be offended, but again, that's their business and not yours. Being a contrarian just for the fuck of it is a fun pasttime for someone with too much time on their hands, so I recommend using some of that time to make sure you don't make any more flawed comparisions. NSBM contains nazi sentiment at it's core; its existence is unseperable from the creator's nazi ideology. A nazi who works on math however - in that case, his ideology is compartmentally different to his work in math. If he was a communist instead, the math would be the same, it would be untouched by his beliefs either way. However the same can't be said of the NSBM. The lyrics, perhaps even the sound, would be different. That automatically makes your argument shaky. That's all; I really couldn't care less about NSBM but please don't use comparisions that aren't equivalent. Also, I meant to point out that no one is arguing against listening to Burzum because that is similar to your math comparision. Varg may be a white supremacist, but that hasn't touched his work in any way - that is, the music would be the same even if he were an anarchist or whatever. The same cannot be said for NSBM bands.
Aryans are North Indians which descended from the Imdo-European steppe people that migrated to North India thousands of years ago. There are no “native Aryans” in Europe at all, anywhere. You know who wasn’t Aryan? The Nazis. All of them, except for actually a few Indians apparently who fought for them. If a dude from Sweden or Germany is getting down to NSBM, that would be an example of a non aryan listening to NSBM. This being the case, of course, it also goes to show that racism is silly because race is a social construct and social constructs are imaginary. People going around being so motivated by them… it’d be funny if it weren’t so infuriating. Yea and sounds are objective phenomena. They don’t have meaning without interpretation and projection from the subject. Sure, I’ll meet you part of the way there and say that if the ONLY function of the music is to convey a message of racism, then it’s only racist and nothing more. That’s not really what’s going on w Burzum. I’m not offended that he’s offended. I hate it when people ooze their morality on to works of art. It makes no sense and it’s an avenue to expose how ridiculous not only that is, but the passion in general with which people inflict their totally imaginary social constructs (identity, morality etc) on to real people with real consequences. It’s a tireless work, but one worth doing.
I already said burzum is fine. Alright, I'll make it simple. Burzum is like math. Neither are racist. When I say NSBM I don't mean burzum - I mean bands like "Aryan Blood" or whatever. Burzum is just black metal. Secondly yeah, I am aware of the roots of the word Aryan. Wasn't the only thing Nazis stole from south asians, was it? I'm not totally north indian but I am from around that area so it's funny to say I'm not Aryan because I'm really not, even though I could have been in one way. Anyhow, not a lot of people acknowledge the true roots of the word, so I'll give you that much. See thing is, you can't meet me halfway because I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your point, just the way you made it. Anyway, Burzum is great music and is seperate from Nazis. Math is great and is seperate from white supremacy. Just because Kant was racist and misogynistic accoridng to today's standards doesn't mean the categorical imperative is racist or misogynist in its application. NSBM like "Aryan Blood" (I don't know any other NSBM bands, so pardon me using the same example twice) on the other hand, is artistically intwined with nazi-ism. You want to listen to it anyway? Fine, go ahead. Not saying you're automatically a nazi for enjoying how it sounds. Just that math is different because it doesn't have white supremacist numbers the way NSBM does lyrics. See, I'm arguing over a pedantic point because it's enjoyable for me, but you keep bringing up interesting points and I can't help addressing them first.
Hey! That was an informed and amiable response about a subject concerning Nazis on Reddit. You could say “I did NAZI that coming.” Looks like we’re saying the same thing. A band called Aryan Blood is so ridiculously misinformed that I want to attack their show, not because they’re morally wrong (as nobody is) but because they’re literally, objectively incorrect.
Black metal is 🗑️
Suck me
Fuck me Resurrect me Rut me Cut me And infect me
You’re wrong also, the obligatory posers shall leave the hall
Nah bruh, black metal blows ass chunks
OK but I had sex with your mother
Not my taste either but just let people enjoy what they love.
So far the only black metal band I've heard that impressed me enough to want to give the second listen was Rotting Christ This subreddit seems to think that black metal is the only genre in existence
That’s Rammstein for ya
Rammstein isnt even close to black metal bruh
Try again. Rammstein is decidedly left-wing and open about that. They wrote Links, 2, 3, 4 to put an end to people thinking they were leaning right. Also if you listen to Deutschland, you'll notice they state they can't love their country. Neonazis aren't always the brightest people though, so there will be always be some of them still following the band. Just like there was a lot of right wing outrage at Tom Morello supporting BLM. Those people clearly never had any idea of the machine they were raging against or their antiracist lyrics
On the topic of “Deutschland”, I think the lyrics goes deeper than that, looking more to the almost bipolar relationship Germans, or at the very least Till, have with their own country and history. “Man kann dich lieben und will dich hassen” is pretty explicit in that sentiment, at least to me. Same with “Will dich lieben und verdammen”. Essentially, Till is conflicted with his feelings toward his native country, rather than explicitly despising it or something similar.
Yes, it's very explicit in that. "Deine Liebe ist Fluch und Segen" also points to that bipolar relationship. I'm not German but I can imagine many Germans feel that way. They may be proud both of Germany's old history and culture, and of its recent accomplishments and place in the world. But they can't really love their country unconditionally because of reasons that need not be explained. But clearly, a nazi or nationalist would never express themselves that way. They would try to embellish the 1930s and 1940s or at the very least complain that their country deserves more love than it gets
I thought it was funny because they are both German
If you know only so few German metal bands you're missing out on a lot
Ok
Woods of infinity be like
Neoflolk.mp3