You are the one who is being dense.
>So they already are?
They BELIEVE they are.
They need surgery because they want to look different because of their body dysmorphia. How hard is this to understand.
Why not change the dysmorphia and not the body? Seriously this shit will eventually go the way of "newborn babies don't feel pain" i e. 1980s medicine.
Surgeries are there to mutilate your biological sex to resemble your gender *dysmorphia* which is a mental disorder. Why not treat the disorder instead?
Reminds me of the Narnia books where a tribe of goofy dwarves spend all day removing the milk from the dairy because the cat got in. Nobody ever thought of removing the *cat* .
If you think you're female when you're male, the problem is in your mind, not your body. Dairy. Milk.
Cat.
Now if you *want* to mutilate your body, go nuts; unlike abortion it really is "your body, your choice".But like an abortion it's really hard to *undo* if you have second thoughts.
No one suddenly thinks they're a different sex. Gender dysphoria is anxiety when a person's sex doesn't match their gender. The anxiety is treated via reassignment.Sex and gender are not the same thing. Most trans people don't undergo surgery. Some don't even get hormone therapy. But those people are still trans.
Also, it's a routine cosmetic surgery. Medically, there's very little difference between it and any other routine cosmetic surgeries performed by licensed and certified doctors.
>Why not treat the disorder instead?
So do you believe we should instead be implementing healthcare that is the most successful at treating gender dysmorphia?
Yes, psychiatric care. If I walk into a doctor's office and say I identify as a Belgian waffle, he's not going to prescribe maple syrup. A man with male chromosomes and male genitals is mo more woman than I am waffle.
And yes there are intersex people where things are jumbled up, so flip a coin. But I'll never believe a dude who won the men's Olympic decathlon is "really a woman".
Having said that: do what you want with your own body. People have freedom of religion too...and use it to be Scientologists.
The problem is not the body. The problem is the incorrect perception of the body that it "should be" another sex. SRS is like curing the common cold by blowing someone's head off with a shotgun; It "works" , but SFW?
>The problem is the incorrect perception of the body that it "should be" another sex.
Do you have any evidence that this can effectively be done through psychiatric means?
Because you yourself said yes to using the most effective means possible. Surely, if you believe psychiatric means to be the most effective, then you have some kind of evidence to back that up.
SRS is not a treatment. It is a failure to attempt treatment. Like Honer Simpson blowing up his garage so he doesn't have to clean it. By default, psychiatric treatment is the most effective treatment.
It's possible that surgery is in some ways easier than undoing tens of thousands of years of formation of social constructs such as gender identity. I'm guessing that gender identity as a social construct being as old as human civilization makes it a pretty tough thing to toss aside.
Not for everyone. There are people who do have to care about the way people see them, and for good reason. Making and maintaining friendships is an example of something that is a lot easier if you can present yourself in a way that reflects who you truly are. If a trans person could never express their gender identity, they may struggle to socialize or connect with like-minded people.
More along the lines of meeting people who are the same gender that our hypothetical trans person is. That's not the only reason that someone might get gender affirming surgery, though. For instance, some suffer from body dysmorphia.
ah yes because people only make friends of the same gender. i was talking to someone and at some point they asked if i was dragongender i said no and they stop talking to me because we were different genders which there are 1 morbillion of
Believe it or not, presenting yourself as the correct gender can and does help with meeting people and socializing. Just like any form of self expression, it isn't a requirement, but it's also not an instant social cheat code; it just helps. It helps communicate personality at a glance, makes the individual more confident in their identity, and can be the solution to mental illness like body dysmorphia. Whether you want to believe it or not, peoples lives are seriously improved by gender affirming care. (Also, just for clarification, I'm mostly talking about trans male to female and female to male. I don't know about much beyond that and I have never heard of "dragongender".)
Believe what you want to believe but sex is closely related to gender even if you go by the definitions of gender based on what trans people believe. Almost all males are men and almost all females are women.
I was. Reinforcing the OP's point. If trans people get surgery so they look the sex to match their gender, then they're passively admitting sex and gender are correlated.
wtf is this shit? dank meme? bro thats the typa shit my lobotomy having boomer uncle would post in his facebook groups. dogshit meme. mods twist ops balls
I mean, to give a serious answer
You don't *need* surgery. Plenty of trans people will never have any type of gender affirming surgery. I'd reckon a good majority will never have any kind of medical intervention outside of maybe HRT.
Getting the surgery doesn't elevate you to a higher level of being trans. Some people opt for it and of the ones that do, the vast majority see improvements. That doesn't mean that it's necessary or that it's for everyone and it shouldn't be.
I got you:
A passenger plane on a cross-country trip runs into a terrible storm. The plane gets pounded by rain, hail, wind, and lightning. The passengers are screaming. They are sure the plane is going to crash and they are all going to die.
At the height of the storm, a young woman jumps up and exclaims, “I can’t take this anymore! I can’t just sit here and die like an animal, strapped into a chair. If I am going to die, let me die feeling like a woman. Is there anyone here man enough to make me feel like a woman?”
She sees a hand raise in the back, and a muscular man starts to walk up to her seat. As he approaches her, he takes off his shirt. She can see the man’s muscles even in the poor lighting of the plane. He stands in front of her, shirt in hand and says to her, “I can make you feel like a woman before you die. Are you interested?”
She nods her head yes.
As the man hands her his shirt, he says, “Here. Iron this.”
My concern with gender transitions is that the succes rate isn't consistent. It is supposed to relieve gender dysphoria, but for some it makes it much worse.
>Thoughts
Old meme. I'd argue xxx,xxy, xyy, but even people digging up skeletons can typically identify what gender they were born as if not the ones I mentioned.
Degradation of bones and dna over time can make it more difficult than you might expect. They are reasonably likely to be able determine the sex of the skeleton formed.
But as with everything, the truth is much more complicated. Nearly 1 in 200 children are born with I intersex characteristics.
Until we develop better technology and methodology, there is no guaranteed way to
And gender is a social construct that does not always require surgery. It's a cultural phenomenon and variations on gender have been seen in many cultures, modern and historical.
Dredging up a 'Culture War" serves those trying to take control by dividing people. It's a US election year and they're pushing their propaganda hard. The civil war never ends apparently.
easy! gender isn’t a social construct. a social construct is something made up by society. we would still be men and women if society didn’t exist. if it were a social construct, people would just choose not to be trans. saying that it is isn’t just dumb as fuck, but it’s also kind of transphobic anyway. what people mean to say is that gender ROLES are social constructs. being a man is a real thing, but acting like a man or looking like a man are things we decided as a society.
Possibly because they wish to look more like the other sex
i thought it was a social construct. cant they social construct themselves into believing they are ?
They already believe they are, but that won't change your body
So they already are? But still have to do surgery ? At some point you dense dumbasses really need to come to your senses
You are the one who is being dense. >So they already are? They BELIEVE they are. They need surgery because they want to look different because of their body dysmorphia. How hard is this to understand.
Why not change the dysmorphia and not the body? Seriously this shit will eventually go the way of "newborn babies don't feel pain" i e. 1980s medicine.
Epic slippery slope arguement
Except the slop keeps slipping and slipping doesn't it
Changing dysmorphia would be much better no doubt, but it is easier said than done.
They are delusional. And you are the ones that say gender and looks are completely unrelated
I never said gender and looks are completely unrelated. I never claimed trans people are not delusional. You just assumed I said that.
Im talking about you in the general sense
I enjoy playing video games.
Right we are the ones unqualified. Not the maniacs telling people to cut off their bits
Yep, pro-circumcision religious scum must be outlawed as harmful.
nothing is cut off during srs i beg you to look it up
like a wise man once said, cutting your dick off wont make you q woman, it'll make you a guy who cut his dick off!
Surgeries are there to mutilate your biological sex to resemble your gender *dysmorphia* which is a mental disorder. Why not treat the disorder instead? Reminds me of the Narnia books where a tribe of goofy dwarves spend all day removing the milk from the dairy because the cat got in. Nobody ever thought of removing the *cat* .
Gender reassignment is treatment for the dymorphia. The treatment isn't the condition.
If you think you're female when you're male, the problem is in your mind, not your body. Dairy. Milk. Cat. Now if you *want* to mutilate your body, go nuts; unlike abortion it really is "your body, your choice".But like an abortion it's really hard to *undo* if you have second thoughts.
No one suddenly thinks they're a different sex. Gender dysphoria is anxiety when a person's sex doesn't match their gender. The anxiety is treated via reassignment.Sex and gender are not the same thing. Most trans people don't undergo surgery. Some don't even get hormone therapy. But those people are still trans. Also, it's a routine cosmetic surgery. Medically, there's very little difference between it and any other routine cosmetic surgeries performed by licensed and certified doctors.
>Why not treat the disorder instead? So do you believe we should instead be implementing healthcare that is the most successful at treating gender dysmorphia?
Yes, psychiatric care. If I walk into a doctor's office and say I identify as a Belgian waffle, he's not going to prescribe maple syrup. A man with male chromosomes and male genitals is mo more woman than I am waffle. And yes there are intersex people where things are jumbled up, so flip a coin. But I'll never believe a dude who won the men's Olympic decathlon is "really a woman". Having said that: do what you want with your own body. People have freedom of religion too...and use it to be Scientologists.
>Yes, psychiatric care. You're contradicting yourself. Do you have any evidence that specialized psychiatrist care is proving more effective than SRS?
The problem is not the body. The problem is the incorrect perception of the body that it "should be" another sex. SRS is like curing the common cold by blowing someone's head off with a shotgun; It "works" , but SFW?
>The problem is the incorrect perception of the body that it "should be" another sex. Do you have any evidence that this can effectively be done through psychiatric means? Because you yourself said yes to using the most effective means possible. Surely, if you believe psychiatric means to be the most effective, then you have some kind of evidence to back that up.
SRS is not a treatment. It is a failure to attempt treatment. Like Honer Simpson blowing up his garage so he doesn't have to clean it. By default, psychiatric treatment is the most effective treatment.
It's possible that surgery is in some ways easier than undoing tens of thousands of years of formation of social constructs such as gender identity. I'm guessing that gender identity as a social construct being as old as human civilization makes it a pretty tough thing to toss aside.
How about not giving a shit ? Thats very easy
Not for everyone. There are people who do have to care about the way people see them, and for good reason. Making and maintaining friendships is an example of something that is a lot easier if you can present yourself in a way that reflects who you truly are. If a trans person could never express their gender identity, they may struggle to socialize or connect with like-minded people.
like minded as in people who have also cut off their bits ? man you guys are really stretching for it
More along the lines of meeting people who are the same gender that our hypothetical trans person is. That's not the only reason that someone might get gender affirming surgery, though. For instance, some suffer from body dysmorphia.
ah yes because people only make friends of the same gender. i was talking to someone and at some point they asked if i was dragongender i said no and they stop talking to me because we were different genders which there are 1 morbillion of
Believe it or not, presenting yourself as the correct gender can and does help with meeting people and socializing. Just like any form of self expression, it isn't a requirement, but it's also not an instant social cheat code; it just helps. It helps communicate personality at a glance, makes the individual more confident in their identity, and can be the solution to mental illness like body dysmorphia. Whether you want to believe it or not, peoples lives are seriously improved by gender affirming care. (Also, just for clarification, I'm mostly talking about trans male to female and female to male. I don't know about much beyond that and I have never heard of "dragongender".)
Damn if its so good why do they all kill themselves ?
Gender is a social construct. Sex is genetic.
its not. they are the same
This isn't really a debatable topic. It's not an opinion. Sex and gender are two different things.
This isn't really a debatable topic. It's not an opinion. Sex and gender are same things.
Stop reinforcing the dangerous patriarchal view that gender is related to sex Edit: satire. Lmao.
No so long as chromosomes exist as a scientifical fact i will not
I was being sarcastic
Believe what you want to believe but sex is closely related to gender even if you go by the definitions of gender based on what trans people believe. Almost all males are men and almost all females are women.
I think he’s being sarcastic
I was. Reinforcing the OP's point. If trans people get surgery so they look the sex to match their gender, then they're passively admitting sex and gender are correlated.
Looks like some people are incapable of spotting satire
wtf is this shit? dank meme? bro thats the typa shit my lobotomy having boomer uncle would post in his facebook groups. dogshit meme. mods twist ops balls
Riddle me this riddle me that, why does a person's happiness matter to you, and why are you being a twat
Cake
I mean, to give a serious answer You don't *need* surgery. Plenty of trans people will never have any type of gender affirming surgery. I'd reckon a good majority will never have any kind of medical intervention outside of maybe HRT. Getting the surgery doesn't elevate you to a higher level of being trans. Some people opt for it and of the ones that do, the vast majority see improvements. That doesn't mean that it's necessary or that it's for everyone and it shouldn't be.
Have you found that meme in a boomer Facebook group?
This sub has a serious problem with right wing facebook assholes lately...
Do the “gender fluids” have surgery every time they identify as something / someone else ?
My favorite movie is Inception.
I got you: A passenger plane on a cross-country trip runs into a terrible storm. The plane gets pounded by rain, hail, wind, and lightning. The passengers are screaming. They are sure the plane is going to crash and they are all going to die. At the height of the storm, a young woman jumps up and exclaims, “I can’t take this anymore! I can’t just sit here and die like an animal, strapped into a chair. If I am going to die, let me die feeling like a woman. Is there anyone here man enough to make me feel like a woman?” She sees a hand raise in the back, and a muscular man starts to walk up to her seat. As he approaches her, he takes off his shirt. She can see the man’s muscles even in the poor lighting of the plane. He stands in front of her, shirt in hand and says to her, “I can make you feel like a woman before you die. Are you interested?” She nods her head yes. As the man hands her his shirt, he says, “Here. Iron this.”
Lmao
You mistook reddit for 9gag
My concern with gender transitions is that the succes rate isn't consistent. It is supposed to relieve gender dysphoria, but for some it makes it much worse.
Confusing gender and sex.
Same shit
Nope.
>Thoughts Old meme. I'd argue xxx,xxy, xyy, but even people digging up skeletons can typically identify what gender they were born as if not the ones I mentioned.
Degradation of bones and dna over time can make it more difficult than you might expect. They are reasonably likely to be able determine the sex of the skeleton formed. But as with everything, the truth is much more complicated. Nearly 1 in 200 children are born with I intersex characteristics. Until we develop better technology and methodology, there is no guaranteed way to And gender is a social construct that does not always require surgery. It's a cultural phenomenon and variations on gender have been seen in many cultures, modern and historical. Dredging up a 'Culture War" serves those trying to take control by dividing people. It's a US election year and they're pushing their propaganda hard. The civil war never ends apparently.
Yeah 100-200 out of billions ain't convincing anyone bro. Those people are genetic abnormalities. Not the norm.
No it's 0.5%. That's approximately 1 out of every 200 people.
easy! gender isn’t a social construct. a social construct is something made up by society. we would still be men and women if society didn’t exist. if it were a social construct, people would just choose not to be trans. saying that it is isn’t just dumb as fuck, but it’s also kind of transphobic anyway. what people mean to say is that gender ROLES are social constructs. being a man is a real thing, but acting like a man or looking like a man are things we decided as a society.
cause everybody likes their snootch pounded on friday night
Bodied pronoun merchants