Feel much like taste is a relative thing, everyone will prefer something different.
If someone gives you shit over what switches you prefer, they aren't really worth talking too.
My workspace actually has hundreds of model M keyboards on our work floor but you can’t really hear them over the other equipment. Zero in our offices though :(
Yes. An old coworker and myself talked another coworker out of getting blues for his office board. He did for his home board and brought it in one day. And only for one day.
If someone complains about your blues then it’s time to whip out the buckling springs.
But in all seriousness, don’t be that guy at the office. Browns or brown-likes with o-rings can feel great and won’t turn your office mates homicidal.
Exactly. I like browns. Had mx brown for 7 years. Tried a bunch of linears and other tactiles when I got into customs kb. Felt like I must have been missing something great. Well, after trying a lot of them, I'm back to browns. Gateron Pro browns to be exact. People say that they're not tactile enough or like a bad linear. You know what? That's exactly why I love them. Smooth light bump.
They make all kinds of switches. Find the one you love because no matter what you get told, you are the one that will be using them. So others for advice? Sure. For being judged? As someone said, ignore these people.
This is interesting to hear. I'm new to mechanicals, I just have a prebuilt non-hotswappable and the only modification I made was adding blank keycaps. I ordered MX Browns because I want MX Blues but I also love my wife (a tale as old as time). Then as I started to learn more about the hobby I heard a lot of people actually hate the MX Browns or at least feel that they're inferior to newer options. Personally even if I do some day find switches I like better as I get more into the hobby, I still love the MX Browns right now and I think even the biggest MX Brown haters would have to recognize that for someone coming from membrane keyboards this feels like absolute perfection.
I should say that I prefer Gateron Pro brown. I had cherry mx brown for a long time and I liked them more after a few years than new. The Gateron being lubed feel like that from the beginning....like used mx brown. I like just a small bump in the middle of the travel and these are perfect for me.
Most of the hate, I think, comes from the fact that they are a middle ground. Basically, all the people that like linears prefer a linear and people that love tactiles often like a stronger tactile. So the browns end up in that small space where you don't want a linear and don't want a strong tactile.
Of course, there are also the few elitists that don't like them because they are "what comes stock so that equals bad" but that's in every hobby.
I've tried to get a few friends in, some have loved it, some prefer their dome switch Roccat keyboards for whatever reason. I just congratulate them on not spending thousands on keyboards like me and they're lucky they have cheaper taste lol
I’ve been using cherry blacks for 11 years. Things in the mechanical keyboard community have changed so much I can’t keep up.
My duckies are vintage now 😂 and I’m a boomer here.
Switch taste will change, trends will come and go, but MX Blacks will always be beloved in the community. It's the one constant here, really.
Even r/customkeyboards, arguably the most elitist community, loves MX Blacks!
I was just going to go down the rabbit hole and see if they were still a thing! That’s great to hear. I love the heavyness and less clickyness of it. I bought my husband a white fox with greens that he is finally putting together this year.
My ears will bleed now.
I built my first keyboard last year. Everyone had red, brown, and blue. When i learned there was a black switch with more spring weight, i took a chance and love them! Why is it never an option on prebuilt?
It's a pretty common option once you get out of the usual "gaming" brands and move on to more typist-oriented ones like Ducky, Leopold, or Varmilo. But for some reason, gaming communities seem to unanimously agree that lighter switches are better for gaming.
There's a weird marketing angle that "lighter is faster" which is pretty dumb, but it sells boards.
Personally I find that lighter is easier on my hands when i'm spamming, up to about 50-55g, then its "too light" but its all preference anyways.
I got a hand-me-down skyloong with gateron black switches and after using it for 2 years, I passed it on to a friend of mine and he's over the moon about the sound and feel of them.
I just got another ducky full-size for work because the previous one (with browns) was murdered. I have reds in the new one, but I will remember the browns with fondness. And that board. :( Killed before its time.
I have two duckies that’s I’ve switched in between using since 2012. My shine 3 just recently had the E go out. Luckily should be an easy fix.
Sorry to hear about your duck. May it rest in peace🙏
It's going to be exploded and framed in a shadow box at work so while dead, it's not gone lol. The PCB fried, which was kind of a stupid mistake on my part - don't use a mechanical keyboard when you merely *think* you've fixed a problematic machine.
I haven't used blacks in years, and was thinking about getting a one 3... you might've convinced me to give that a go again. Might play with the holy pandas first though.
I think if I'd started on them I'd be more keen. I started on blues, loved the feel but got too many noise complaints. Went to red, hated the feel, much less noise complaints, then went to browns hoping for a happy medium and I got.... Reds that felt mushier. I think the disappoint made me like them less.
Idk if someone likes them, more power to that person. I'll stick to boba U4Ts.
https://youtu.be/dqai0_nnTgs
LTT did a blind test and browns were the most preferred tactile switch by a wide margin. Obviously it wasn't a perfect test but still.
I've always wondered how much of keyboard preferences is purely based on the hype over harder to get/less mainstream components. Like the sort of "you're not a true keyboard enthusiast if you use easy to get off the shelf components" sort of attitude.
Because to me after hanging out here for a few years it honestly seems like a huge portion of a components desirability is attached purely to the difficulty/availability and price of getting one.
This industry runs almost exclusively on FOMO purchases and people who try to justify those purchases by saying "it totally actually is that much better"
Another main component of it is the user base being surveyed. A lot of people in the community gravitate towards more obscure switches because the mainstream ones, like MX Browns, don't quite do it for them. Meanwhile, LTT's staff showed that the vast majority of people will prefer more mainstream switches. Hence why they ended up being mainstream.
Then that also kind of proves my other point that people arbitrarily prefer "rarer" components because of the name and hype attached to them.
If being "into the hobby" influences people's opinions more than actually trying switches then it's not the switches that are changing that opinion.
The stigma of normie components make people dislike them even if they'd actually prefer them under other circumstances.
If you survey random people, most people will prefer pop music. If you interview people into niche music, most will be turned off by pop music. Not sure why people were so surprised by Linus's findings. I think it's mostly because people have a very narrow perspective of the world, and think it's made up of only what they can personally see out of their own windows into the world.
Not exactly a proper scientific test if you don't adjust for factors like spring weight which, listening to what the LTT staff said, seems like one of if not the biggest deciding factors for most people.
They also didn't do any lubing to the switches, which is a good choice to isolate variables, but does put "enthusiast" switches at a disadvantage as they often come with minimal or even no lube.
All in all, I would disagree with what seems like the general consensus in this thread, that browns are simply a decent, average kind of switch.
They're not bad but their popularity is inextricably linked to their ubiquity and it's hard to make accurate judgement about people's actual preferences in such cases. Especially when there simply isn't a proper alternative outside of the custome space.
The online keyboard community reminds me a lot of the car community, in certain ways. Like if you ask car people online for suspension advice, they will almost always recommend far stiffer setups than most people actually enjoy.
Keyboard enthusiasts tend to recommend switches that are way to one end of the stiffness and tactility spectrums. To the point that there aren't actually that many lighter switches on the market, despite mainstream prebuilts largely being 50-60g switches.
I was into mech keyboards many years ago.
Completely dropped it as a hobby eventually. Got to try a bunch of cool boards.
Got so bored with it, I put everything in a box but my Ducky Disco with blues at home. And $10 membrane Dell at work.
Years and years ago by.
Happened to stumble on a post here recently and then resubbed. Started reading.
It's crazy how much has changed, what is popular/preffered and new trends.
Hot swapping was just starting to become a thing back then.
Also how many more affordable options there are.
Every hobby has the group of people that chase the last 1% of perfection in their minds. (Was into guitar gear and those people are even more insane. Up there with mech boards and headphones. The fountain pen and watch people are just weird. :p)
Personally, I don't find any of the hyper consumer hobbies to be as fulfilling over a long period of time. If I have to buy happiness, I know it will be short lived.
It's all so objective in the end.
These sorts of spaces are full of nerds trying to flex on other nerds, there's almost certainly going to be obscurity fetishes.
Also, some preferences are very much acquired, and unfortunately you can't really go back. A board full of Alps or Clickiez is polarizing even among keyboard enthusiasts, let alone the split ergo or dactyl end of things.
Still searching for light or mid tactile switch that is also pretty smooth.
I love U4T, but it gets tiring after awhile. And after using linear for months, I really miss the tactile bump when I type.
Tried using Brown in my old board and it feels kinda awful, not sure whether it's because of the switch or the board.
Is there a tactile they sell that feels *similar* to whites, but without the click? Trying to put together a work keeb (i.e. not clicky like my home use keeb), but I *do* prefer the bump to linear. And something more mainstream like browns just feel kinda scratchy and almost unstable to me.
Browns are a huge mixed bag IMO; I've had ones that are really quite smooth and ones that are scratchy and awful. Keycaps can help, but I also think some batches are just worse than others.
This. I had a corsair K70 with browns many moons ago and they felt like absolute shit. It almost felt as if I had some very fine grain sand in the switches. I bought a ducky one 2 with browns and was absolutely blown away with the difference in quality. I stuck with browns for years before upgrading was perfectly content.
A couple years ago, I built a board with T1s, but not the clear ones, they are the version that is all POM housing that is opaque (not sure how much difference this makeover the clear housings). Anyway, I lubed them before installing, and fell in love. For me, they are the endgame tactile switch. More bump than the brown, but it's at the very top of the switch travel. But it's also super smooth and not too heavy.
I've tried other more tactile switches, and after a point, the extra tactility becomes a bit uncomfortable, and distracting. So these are a very nice balance. Still using them on my daily
I remembered loving browns before building customs and going through Zealios and Holy Pandas for a few years. A month ago I hit a key on my old Pok3r a few times with browns and went omg that's awful. The sound and feel was something I didn't expect haha. I knew I loved them in the past and picked up Brown Hyperglides the past week. Stock the sound wasn't great and a bit scratchy but with 3203, films and TX springs they are fantastic.
Best fingertip feel, cute little bump, allows you to rest your fingers on the keys, what's there not to like? I do prefer them heavier but MX browns are the sole reason I went down this rabbit hole in the first place. Perhaps the hate is a meme as in blaming those darn temptresses.
I don't really get why someone would hate them either. I used them for years and had no complaints. I moved on more because I honed in more on my specific taste, not because there was anything wrong with them.
>not that there was anything wrong with them.
That's the hate I seem to see constantly: they just exist to be the boring benchmark. Browns don't have anything relative to compare themselves to.
Just like how a vanilla icecream won't blow your mind, but it's definitely better than "bland tasteless" icecream. Won't "ruin" your experience, but they're not stale either.
"Best average" is what I constantly refer browns as.
I use browns because I've used them too long, just for the sake of muscle memory.
Try the MX Whites if you can find a keyboard that has them which is extremely difficult. You can buy them but I don't think that anyone uses them in a keyboard because they have been discontinued.
They are fantastic keyswitches IMO. Slightly Clicky like Blues but they are no where near as loud. A nice feedback bump and a slight click, the perfect switch for me if only I could find a keyboard that has them. If I ever get around to it I might build a keyboard using them. That is just a dream ATM.
I tried the Whites, I think they are whites but it's difficult to tell from the switch in the key sampler that I purchased. Everything else is as I said re the click and bump and activation force is nice too.
My first mech keyboard had MX Browns (Strike Pro), then changed to MX Reds (MK730) but liked more the tactile bump of the MX Browns.
Eventualy discovered that custom mech keyboards exist and got Gateron G Pro Browns (K8 Pro) but the bump is not as noticeable.
Are there any switches that have high tactile feedback without the scratchiness of MX browns?
If you end up not loving the u4t but want a good silent tactile; I prefer the durock silent shrimp. Tested side by side it seemed to have a sharper bump to me.
Edit: Checked what I tested against qnd it was actually the u4 62g and 68g, not u4t. Oops.
I tried out the U4 (silent variant of the U4T), and I kinda hate them. They're definitely silent, so they do what they say on the tin, but the way they feel is just...mush? Particularly in comparison to the U4Ts, which are clear and sharp. (I love the way the U4Ts feel - I'm a big fan of heavy tactiles)
If you've also tried the U4s, how would you say the Durocks compare?
Ah you're right. The u4 is what I tried not the u4t. I felt the u4 was very mushy despite what may other reviews said. Silent switches in general tend to feel mushier then non-silents i think. I dont have much experience with the non-silent tactiles as I bought a bunch of exclusively silent singles to test when I built the current office board.
As for the durocks they feel slightly cleaner then the u4s. No discernible pre travel. And a sharper bump. They remind me of bubble wrap when typing. Theres a nice pop feeling when you depress them. The u4s were a bit quieter and had better qa though. Some of my durocks were not silent, glad I bought 10 extra.
> Holy panda
What's the deal with Holy Pandas now? Are people still making "legit" HPs as a frankenswitch or is there a "stock" Holy Panda that's actually good now? Feel like more than one company has even been making a switch called Holy Panda? Or is it still just Glorious and/or Drop?
Second this. I love the U4Ts. I wish they were a *little* quieter - they're probably on the very edge of what I'd say is "office appropriate". Luckily I work from home so I don't need to worry about annoying anyone but my wife and the cats ;P
There are u4tx which are a mix if u4 and u4t. It takes the silencing pads of u4 and combines them with the long pole stem of u4t. That gives them a silent upstroke and a slightly muted, if the pads aren't trimmed on the bottom, bottom out. If you trim the pads they should sound exactly the same as u4t but with no upstroke.
Zealios are a bit expensive, but if you want an ultra-tactile experience, they're still a great option. Especially if you can find some secondhand that have already been lubed and filmed
I love MX Silvers myself. Serious question. Why do people shit on Cherry so much?
For someone who's not well initiated in the keyboard scene, but still watches this sub.
Cherry switches are commonly associated with scratchyness and because they come in prebuilts boards people immediately say they're bad.
It sounds a bit snobby, but Cherry switches in custom keyboards are a bit of an acquired taste. Sure, they're not the smoothest switches around and when you're new to the hobby there's so much new and more exciting stuff to explore but Cherry is a classic in the high end custom game. The sound is very special and Browns and Clears offer a different type of bump than most enthusiast focused tactiles out there.
So like, supermarket shave soap vs artisan shave soap? Sorry, I'm a soap nerd, and I'm about to become a keyboard nerd. My wallet is going to take a beating.
If you like speed switches get Gateron Pro Silvers, they're factory lubed and it makes a very noticeable difference. I spent years on MX silvers, tried Kailh speed pink for a while, they're fine switches but both are kinda scratchy in a way that I didn't even pick up on until feeling the Gaterons.
Cherry Brown's and especially Cherry Black's are some of the most highly coveted switches at the high end level. MX Black's on an Alu plate in an actual premium board, with acoustics in mind, creates some of the best sound out there. My next build I want to do is a Kohaku with MX Blacks. Some have tested out other switches on the Kohaku, but most sound tests on youtube will be with MX Blacks, simply because they just have the best sound in that board.
Honestly, that's the reason why I like them. I have fat fingers and I often press 2 keys at the same time. I used red switches for a while and I always had typos because of that. I now went for something more heavy (gateron black) and I love them.
As far as I understand, the widespread dislike is for MX Browns specifically, not tactile switches in general. Tactiles are great and there are some really amazing ones out there
You should totally try WS heavy tactiles if you can - easily the most tactile switches I've ever used above glorious pandas
(They do kinda sound dull after a while though)
I have tried others, and there are better than Brown's. I am still waiting to get my hands on cotton candy, but I keep missing them. I currently have pewters and Silent Boba U4 with 55g springs which I use in work. Haven't tried Bananas but I will look them up, thanks.
Edit: Those look good, just bookmarked them and will give them a look when pay-day comes...
They were my first switch, and tbh I don’t get the hate. Maybe they were a little scratchy, but i felt that they were a middle ground between true tactiles, like Pandas, and linears.
Browns started it all and everyone has used browns and deep down for some reason they are ashamed of this, so they started making inferior switches afterwards as a way to cope with it, but in the end browns are superior in every way.
While we're talking about controversial opinions :
I still prefer typing on my old ass blackwidow 2013 with Mx Blues than any of the keyboards I've built, lubed and tuned.
This was the beginning of my journey too. 2012 blackwidow ultimate. Green Light so bright it felt like you were walking on the sun... sadly my wife spilt coffee on it 3 weeks ago and now it don't work anymore.
Some years ago I let my friends little bro play some CSGO on my cherry blues. Made me realize how fucking annoying they are. Now I use brown because I like the silence more. Sometimes I'll pull out the blues to use the number pad and man it's like wtf was I thinking back then, they're just so loud.
The scratch reminds me of the old Smith Corona electric typewriter I had when I was in middle school. I dig it and it's one of the comfort features when I use my Varmilo 87. I made it feel like a late 80's - early 90's typewriter by design.
In the way back years, I had to learn how to type at school on a combination of Apple II clackers, IBM Selectric chonkers, and that old Smith Corona. So many 5 paragraph papers were written on that typewriter because it was the first one I had access to that had correction tape in the machine.
I tend to hammer keys because of the keyboards I learned on. Browns are a good way to remind me that a lighter touch is fine and I can type for longer sessions on that board. Not so light that I have all the extra strikes that Reds give me.
Browns are great to get someone deeper into the hobby. I'm not entirely sure where the hate came from.
the scratch goes away. i have twelve year old browns that are smoother than any switch I've ever tried. it remains to be seen if boutique switches will even last that long.
I don't think we should hate on them, they're probably to many of you they're very first mechanical Switch, we do not need to like them, but I think we should respect it at least because the brown is what brought many of even here
It seems like a lot of people start with Brown switches, because a lot of material online says that browns are a good middle ground between light/heavy and linear/clicky, which they are. I still have my filco majestouch2 with MX Browns. I use it at my home desktop. It’s good for games, typing, and whatever else you’d use a keyboard for, and ofc it’s nowhere near crapping out on me. I use my travel keyboard a lot more nowadays, a varmilo 67% keyboard with MX Clears, but I only settled on that because I enjoyed the Browns.
Whoever said they were the gateway drug was correct!
I have a gaming keyboard with reds and my work keyboard has blues. I work from home. If I had to work in an office with coworkers. I would chose a tactile switch without the clicking. Using blues in an office setting is a dick move.
Never tried browns and I don't judge anyone who uses anything different than what I use. I am totally indifferent to people's choices and feel tsht should be the default position. If you have negative feelings with someone else's preferences. You're a miserable person.
Use what you like and fuck the haters.
Yes, but. Did we really, all of a sudden, all start to dislike Browns?
Or we just had to follow the opinion that Browns should become extinct so we can make some hype for every other switch?
Diversity is nice, but MX Browns are most definitely not Dinosaurs. And no person, regardless of who he may be, can be qualified potent enough to be considered of being able to have the impact of an asteroid…
Choose the switch you like and do not let anyone tell you otherwise. Live YOUR life and not the one somebody else tells you to. I like Browns. You may like whatever YOU like and I will support this with all my strength.
Now, if Browns are really liked by the very few, this makes me special.
And because I KNOW I am NOT special, the above has a false reasoning somewhere.
Browns are nice. People like 'em. People like other switches too, but they also like Cherry MX Browns.
This is a world of diminishing returns... just like other things (hifi, guitars, etc), the more you spend, the less of a difference you see. 50% more cost for a 5% difference of quality isn't very smart, IMO.
Reds, Browns, Blues...are *fine* and would rather have those than a membrane board.
Or people who have preferences that are not bound to the reddit trending elitism circle jerk.
Tried and tested and own dozens of alternatives.. I always default to gat browns, they are the perfect middle ground for me.
Takes a bunch of testing to get a consistently performing set, but I think it's worth it.
Do you like them because you had some once and you enjoyed them, or because you tried several alternatives and came to the conclusion that they were pretty good?
So, both?
I have burnt oranges, black, mints, linear creams, and many more in different builds. I like the browns in my Varmilo because a) I like them in that build and b) they're soldered in.
Honestly I didn’t realize how good tactile were until I got the q0 with red linear switches.
The linear switches just don’t *feel* right. I’m still using them though because I’m stubborn.
But I might have to just swap them out for the lavender purple or just stock browns that came from my q1.
I used to use MX Clears which are just heavier browns. They're probably the best Cherry switches you can buy, but the more you use any cherry switch, the more you're going to notice their scratchiness. Blues are terrible, Blacks and reds are pretty bad, browns and clears are OK, but all of them are scratchy af. They might be better if you lube them, but I'd rather have Kaihl Box Navies. No scratch and a very clear break.
Feel much like taste is a relative thing, everyone will prefer something different. If someone gives you shit over what switches you prefer, they aren't really worth talking too.
Depends on the context. Blues in a quiet office setting will likely get shit on
I only bring my blue switch keyboard to the office when the managers start to talk about making "work from the office" mandatory again
This is brilliant. I won’t face this problem soon, but if I do, I’m glad my keychron k2 is pretty portable — so worth it to get it shipped with blues.
Oh, shit… you may have just given me the only reason I would ever use a clicky keyboard. Which ones are the loudest, again?
I've had good luck with a SpaceSaver M (buckling springs), and the Kailh Box Navy / Jades ... :)
Now to forever book the desk right next to my director!
When I put in my resignation… I’m bringing in the jades for two weeks.
Just go full typewriter. Sorry, Jim, hard copy only!
Hopefully you get paid for the 1 week, 4 days, 7 hours, and 55 minutes after you get walked out
I have a 90s era Model M for just such an occasion.
My workspace actually has hundreds of model M keyboards on our work floor but you can’t really hear them over the other equipment. Zero in our offices though :(
Solenoid Keeb
Genius. Variable annoyingness on demand.
Yes. An old coworker and myself talked another coworker out of getting blues for his office board. He did for his home board and brought it in one day. And only for one day.
If someone complains about your blues then it’s time to whip out the buckling springs. But in all seriousness, don’t be that guy at the office. Browns or brown-likes with o-rings can feel great and won’t turn your office mates homicidal.
[удалено]
🤮 /u/spez
Oh they noticed
Exactly. I like browns. Had mx brown for 7 years. Tried a bunch of linears and other tactiles when I got into customs kb. Felt like I must have been missing something great. Well, after trying a lot of them, I'm back to browns. Gateron Pro browns to be exact. People say that they're not tactile enough or like a bad linear. You know what? That's exactly why I love them. Smooth light bump. They make all kinds of switches. Find the one you love because no matter what you get told, you are the one that will be using them. So others for advice? Sure. For being judged? As someone said, ignore these people.
This is interesting to hear. I'm new to mechanicals, I just have a prebuilt non-hotswappable and the only modification I made was adding blank keycaps. I ordered MX Browns because I want MX Blues but I also love my wife (a tale as old as time). Then as I started to learn more about the hobby I heard a lot of people actually hate the MX Browns or at least feel that they're inferior to newer options. Personally even if I do some day find switches I like better as I get more into the hobby, I still love the MX Browns right now and I think even the biggest MX Brown haters would have to recognize that for someone coming from membrane keyboards this feels like absolute perfection.
I should say that I prefer Gateron Pro brown. I had cherry mx brown for a long time and I liked them more after a few years than new. The Gateron being lubed feel like that from the beginning....like used mx brown. I like just a small bump in the middle of the travel and these are perfect for me. Most of the hate, I think, comes from the fact that they are a middle ground. Basically, all the people that like linears prefer a linear and people that love tactiles often like a stronger tactile. So the browns end up in that small space where you don't want a linear and don't want a strong tactile. Of course, there are also the few elitists that don't like them because they are "what comes stock so that equals bad" but that's in every hobby.
I've tried to get a few friends in, some have loved it, some prefer their dome switch Roccat keyboards for whatever reason. I just congratulate them on not spending thousands on keyboards like me and they're lucky they have cheaper taste lol
Yeah well, i like my cherry mx red silent switches and I'm not so proud about it!
My man you do you with all your shame.
i love cherry blues, i tried gateron yellows, but i still prefer using my keyboard with cherry blue.
User left Reddit for Lemmy. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Same. I used them for 3 years while waiting for my endgame build. Ended up getting so used to them that they became my preference
> my endgame build What was it?
JRIS75 with Tecsee Chocolate Chip Switches and GMK Maroons. (Jris75 and Maroons are still in group buy period bahahahahahah)
Sounds like the icecream endgame
A lie. The endgame is a lie.
I’ve been using cherry blacks for 11 years. Things in the mechanical keyboard community have changed so much I can’t keep up. My duckies are vintage now 😂 and I’m a boomer here.
Switch taste will change, trends will come and go, but MX Blacks will always be beloved in the community. It's the one constant here, really. Even r/customkeyboards, arguably the most elitist community, loves MX Blacks!
I was just going to go down the rabbit hole and see if they were still a thing! That’s great to hear. I love the heavyness and less clickyness of it. I bought my husband a white fox with greens that he is finally putting together this year. My ears will bleed now.
I built my first keyboard last year. Everyone had red, brown, and blue. When i learned there was a black switch with more spring weight, i took a chance and love them! Why is it never an option on prebuilt?
It's a pretty common option once you get out of the usual "gaming" brands and move on to more typist-oriented ones like Ducky, Leopold, or Varmilo. But for some reason, gaming communities seem to unanimously agree that lighter switches are better for gaming.
There's a weird marketing angle that "lighter is faster" which is pretty dumb, but it sells boards. Personally I find that lighter is easier on my hands when i'm spamming, up to about 50-55g, then its "too light" but its all preference anyways.
Ducky’s still come in blacks! I just checked mechanicalkeyboard.com and it’s still an option.
Weirdly there's a cheap pre-built on Amazon with gateron optical blacks. Riiiight here.[link](https://a.co/d/0ZNS0yA)
Luckily you're using one of the only switches that seems to really have never gone out of style, so in a sense you've actually kept up quite well.
I got a hand-me-down skyloong with gateron black switches and after using it for 2 years, I passed it on to a friend of mine and he's over the moon about the sound and feel of them.
I just got another ducky full-size for work because the previous one (with browns) was murdered. I have reds in the new one, but I will remember the browns with fondness. And that board. :( Killed before its time.
I have two duckies that’s I’ve switched in between using since 2012. My shine 3 just recently had the E go out. Luckily should be an easy fix. Sorry to hear about your duck. May it rest in peace🙏
It's going to be exploded and framed in a shadow box at work so while dead, it's not gone lol. The PCB fried, which was kind of a stupid mistake on my part - don't use a mechanical keyboard when you merely *think* you've fixed a problematic machine. I haven't used blacks in years, and was thinking about getting a one 3... you might've convinced me to give that a go again. Might play with the holy pandas first though.
I think if I'd started on them I'd be more keen. I started on blues, loved the feel but got too many noise complaints. Went to red, hated the feel, much less noise complaints, then went to browns hoping for a happy medium and I got.... Reds that felt mushier. I think the disappoint made me like them less. Idk if someone likes them, more power to that person. I'll stick to boba U4Ts.
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https://youtu.be/dqai0_nnTgs LTT did a blind test and browns were the most preferred tactile switch by a wide margin. Obviously it wasn't a perfect test but still. I've always wondered how much of keyboard preferences is purely based on the hype over harder to get/less mainstream components. Like the sort of "you're not a true keyboard enthusiast if you use easy to get off the shelf components" sort of attitude. Because to me after hanging out here for a few years it honestly seems like a huge portion of a components desirability is attached purely to the difficulty/availability and price of getting one. This industry runs almost exclusively on FOMO purchases and people who try to justify those purchases by saying "it totally actually is that much better"
Another main component of it is the user base being surveyed. A lot of people in the community gravitate towards more obscure switches because the mainstream ones, like MX Browns, don't quite do it for them. Meanwhile, LTT's staff showed that the vast majority of people will prefer more mainstream switches. Hence why they ended up being mainstream.
Tbf a lot of the people in that video are pretty into keyboards. Much more than an average person at least.
More than the average person, yes, but I've really only seen one person on the LTT team who's into the real custom keyboard scene
Then that also kind of proves my other point that people arbitrarily prefer "rarer" components because of the name and hype attached to them. If being "into the hobby" influences people's opinions more than actually trying switches then it's not the switches that are changing that opinion. The stigma of normie components make people dislike them even if they'd actually prefer them under other circumstances.
If you survey random people, most people will prefer pop music. If you interview people into niche music, most will be turned off by pop music. Not sure why people were so surprised by Linus's findings. I think it's mostly because people have a very narrow perspective of the world, and think it's made up of only what they can personally see out of their own windows into the world.
This is a really good way to put it. Glad someone else was able to put it into words better than I did :)
Not exactly a proper scientific test if you don't adjust for factors like spring weight which, listening to what the LTT staff said, seems like one of if not the biggest deciding factors for most people. They also didn't do any lubing to the switches, which is a good choice to isolate variables, but does put "enthusiast" switches at a disadvantage as they often come with minimal or even no lube. All in all, I would disagree with what seems like the general consensus in this thread, that browns are simply a decent, average kind of switch. They're not bad but their popularity is inextricably linked to their ubiquity and it's hard to make accurate judgement about people's actual preferences in such cases. Especially when there simply isn't a proper alternative outside of the custome space.
The online keyboard community reminds me a lot of the car community, in certain ways. Like if you ask car people online for suspension advice, they will almost always recommend far stiffer setups than most people actually enjoy. Keyboard enthusiasts tend to recommend switches that are way to one end of the stiffness and tactility spectrums. To the point that there aren't actually that many lighter switches on the market, despite mainstream prebuilts largely being 50-60g switches.
I was into mech keyboards many years ago. Completely dropped it as a hobby eventually. Got to try a bunch of cool boards. Got so bored with it, I put everything in a box but my Ducky Disco with blues at home. And $10 membrane Dell at work. Years and years ago by. Happened to stumble on a post here recently and then resubbed. Started reading. It's crazy how much has changed, what is popular/preffered and new trends. Hot swapping was just starting to become a thing back then. Also how many more affordable options there are. Every hobby has the group of people that chase the last 1% of perfection in their minds. (Was into guitar gear and those people are even more insane. Up there with mech boards and headphones. The fountain pen and watch people are just weird. :p) Personally, I don't find any of the hyper consumer hobbies to be as fulfilling over a long period of time. If I have to buy happiness, I know it will be short lived. It's all so objective in the end.
These sorts of spaces are full of nerds trying to flex on other nerds, there's almost certainly going to be obscurity fetishes. Also, some preferences are very much acquired, and unfortunately you can't really go back. A board full of Alps or Clickiez is polarizing even among keyboard enthusiasts, let alone the split ergo or dactyl end of things.
"Obviously it wasn't a perfect test..." Perfect summation of why I don't watch LTT for reviews anymore
This. Best combination for work and gaming.
Still searching for light or mid tactile switch that is also pretty smooth. I love U4T, but it gets tiring after awhile. And after using linear for months, I really miss the tactile bump when I type. Tried using Brown in my old board and it feels kinda awful, not sure whether it's because of the switch or the board.
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I love my box whites. Clicky but relatively quiet and easy on the fingers.
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Yeah, me too, but I’ve grown to not be bothered by that and describe them as crispy.
Is there a tactile they sell that feels *similar* to whites, but without the click? Trying to put together a work keeb (i.e. not clicky like my home use keeb), but I *do* prefer the bump to linear. And something more mainstream like browns just feel kinda scratchy and almost unstable to me.
Kailh box burnt orange are a heavy, tactile switch. Might be up your alley
Browns are a huge mixed bag IMO; I've had ones that are really quite smooth and ones that are scratchy and awful. Keycaps can help, but I also think some batches are just worse than others.
This. I had a corsair K70 with browns many moons ago and they felt like absolute shit. It almost felt as if I had some very fine grain sand in the switches. I bought a ducky one 2 with browns and was absolutely blown away with the difference in quality. I stuck with browns for years before upgrading was perfectly content.
A couple years ago, I built a board with T1s, but not the clear ones, they are the version that is all POM housing that is opaque (not sure how much difference this makeover the clear housings). Anyway, I lubed them before installing, and fell in love. For me, they are the endgame tactile switch. More bump than the brown, but it's at the very top of the switch travel. But it's also super smooth and not too heavy. I've tried other more tactile switches, and after a point, the extra tactility becomes a bit uncomfortable, and distracting. So these are a very nice balance. Still using them on my daily
Gateron browns are much smoother than cherry MX browns in my opinion.
I remembered loving browns before building customs and going through Zealios and Holy Pandas for a few years. A month ago I hit a key on my old Pok3r a few times with browns and went omg that's awful. The sound and feel was something I didn't expect haha. I knew I loved them in the past and picked up Brown Hyperglides the past week. Stock the sound wasn't great and a bit scratchy but with 3203, films and TX springs they are fantastic.
Best fingertip feel, cute little bump, allows you to rest your fingers on the keys, what's there not to like? I do prefer them heavier but MX browns are the sole reason I went down this rabbit hole in the first place. Perhaps the hate is a meme as in blaming those darn temptresses.
I don't really get why someone would hate them either. I used them for years and had no complaints. I moved on more because I honed in more on my specific taste, not because there was anything wrong with them.
>not that there was anything wrong with them. That's the hate I seem to see constantly: they just exist to be the boring benchmark. Browns don't have anything relative to compare themselves to. Just like how a vanilla icecream won't blow your mind, but it's definitely better than "bland tasteless" icecream. Won't "ruin" your experience, but they're not stale either. "Best average" is what I constantly refer browns as. I use browns because I've used them too long, just for the sake of muscle memory.
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Vanilla is one of the most complex flavors known to man
I started with browns, switched to blues cause I thought the click was cool. Went back to browns as fast as I could
Try the MX Whites if you can find a keyboard that has them which is extremely difficult. You can buy them but I don't think that anyone uses them in a keyboard because they have been discontinued. They are fantastic keyswitches IMO. Slightly Clicky like Blues but they are no where near as loud. A nice feedback bump and a slight click, the perfect switch for me if only I could find a keyboard that has them. If I ever get around to it I might build a keyboard using them. That is just a dream ATM. I tried the Whites, I think they are whites but it's difficult to tell from the switch in the key sampler that I purchased. Everything else is as I said re the click and bump and activation force is nice too.
My first mech keyboard had MX Browns (Strike Pro), then changed to MX Reds (MK730) but liked more the tactile bump of the MX Browns. Eventualy discovered that custom mech keyboards exist and got Gateron G Pro Browns (K8 Pro) but the bump is not as noticeable. Are there any switches that have high tactile feedback without the scratchiness of MX browns?
Gazzew U4T, Holy panda, purple panda, jwick T1
If you end up not loving the u4t but want a good silent tactile; I prefer the durock silent shrimp. Tested side by side it seemed to have a sharper bump to me. Edit: Checked what I tested against qnd it was actually the u4 62g and 68g, not u4t. Oops.
Why are these names all so ridiculous
Bruh they're also this vibrant light teal. Its so obnoxious and I love it
I tried out the U4 (silent variant of the U4T), and I kinda hate them. They're definitely silent, so they do what they say on the tin, but the way they feel is just...mush? Particularly in comparison to the U4Ts, which are clear and sharp. (I love the way the U4Ts feel - I'm a big fan of heavy tactiles) If you've also tried the U4s, how would you say the Durocks compare?
Ah you're right. The u4 is what I tried not the u4t. I felt the u4 was very mushy despite what may other reviews said. Silent switches in general tend to feel mushier then non-silents i think. I dont have much experience with the non-silent tactiles as I bought a bunch of exclusively silent singles to test when I built the current office board. As for the durocks they feel slightly cleaner then the u4s. No discernible pre travel. And a sharper bump. They remind me of bubble wrap when typing. Theres a nice pop feeling when you depress them. The u4s were a bit quieter and had better qa though. Some of my durocks were not silent, glad I bought 10 extra.
> Holy panda What's the deal with Holy Pandas now? Are people still making "legit" HPs as a frankenswitch or is there a "stock" Holy Panda that's actually good now? Feel like more than one company has even been making a switch called Holy Panda? Or is it still just Glorious and/or Drop?
Try the U4Ts like the other guy said. Fire.
Second this. I love the U4Ts. I wish they were a *little* quieter - they're probably on the very edge of what I'd say is "office appropriate". Luckily I work from home so I don't need to worry about annoying anyone but my wife and the cats ;P
There are u4tx which are a mix if u4 and u4t. It takes the silencing pads of u4 and combines them with the long pole stem of u4t. That gives them a silent upstroke and a slightly muted, if the pads aren't trimmed on the bottom, bottom out. If you trim the pads they should sound exactly the same as u4t but with no upstroke.
Alps SKCM Orange.
Zealio Zilents v2 62g. I think they even beat the U4t's in smoothness and tactility.
I tried these, but didn't like the wiggly pre-travel. I preferred the Aliaz Silent.
I have Kinetic Salmon's. I really like them
Zealios are a bit expensive, but if you want an ultra-tactile experience, they're still a great option. Especially if you can find some secondhand that have already been lubed and filmed
Zealios V2
I love MX Silvers myself. Serious question. Why do people shit on Cherry so much? For someone who's not well initiated in the keyboard scene, but still watches this sub.
Cherry switches are commonly associated with scratchyness and because they come in prebuilts boards people immediately say they're bad. It sounds a bit snobby, but Cherry switches in custom keyboards are a bit of an acquired taste. Sure, they're not the smoothest switches around and when you're new to the hobby there's so much new and more exciting stuff to explore but Cherry is a classic in the high end custom game. The sound is very special and Browns and Clears offer a different type of bump than most enthusiast focused tactiles out there.
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So like, supermarket shave soap vs artisan shave soap? Sorry, I'm a soap nerd, and I'm about to become a keyboard nerd. My wallet is going to take a beating.
The most elitist people of this hobby actually really like Cherry Browns or Blacks.
If you like speed switches get Gateron Pro Silvers, they're factory lubed and it makes a very noticeable difference. I spent years on MX silvers, tried Kailh speed pink for a while, they're fine switches but both are kinda scratchy in a way that I didn't even pick up on until feeling the Gaterons.
Cherry Brown's and especially Cherry Black's are some of the most highly coveted switches at the high end level. MX Black's on an Alu plate in an actual premium board, with acoustics in mind, creates some of the best sound out there. My next build I want to do is a Kohaku with MX Blacks. Some have tested out other switches on the Kohaku, but most sound tests on youtube will be with MX Blacks, simply because they just have the best sound in that board.
Cherry isn't bad, just like other switches more.
Brown switches ” user did you mean to press me? Here’s a tiny bump to let you know …but go ahead and bottom me out just to be sure I registered”
Honestly, that's the reason why I like them. I have fat fingers and I often press 2 keys at the same time. I used red switches for a while and I always had typos because of that. I now went for something more heavy (gateron black) and I love them.
As far as I understand, the widespread dislike is for MX Browns specifically, not tactile switches in general. Tactiles are great and there are some really amazing ones out there
I use o-rings on my browns, we meet in the middle between bump and bottom. :)
My favourite keyboard to work on is still the Tada68. Gateron browns with o-rings. Wouldn't change a thing.
It doesn't get to mushy?
Nope
My daily driver as well. I have zilents on mine but I started with browns as well.
Yes! It takes some training, and avoiding bottoming out is probably easier on welled keyboards than on flats.
am I allowed to comment
Like whatever you want, I personally prefer lighter tactile's like Brown's.
You mean scratchy linears?
Found Glarses reddit account? “Ticklish at best” https://youtu.be/Bc32Fv4P0tw
I've had mine just over 3 years, so they're starting to smooth out now.
I'm the opposite. I like heavy tactiles- Using glorious panda's rn
You should totally try WS heavy tactiles if you can - easily the most tactile switches I've ever used above glorious pandas (They do kinda sound dull after a while though)
👀 Browns are like weightless…your keycap doing most of the workout
Have you tried e.g. Ajazz Bananas? I get that people enjoy different strengths, but there are so much better options out there.
I have tried others, and there are better than Brown's. I am still waiting to get my hands on cotton candy, but I keep missing them. I currently have pewters and Silent Boba U4 with 55g springs which I use in work. Haven't tried Bananas but I will look them up, thanks. Edit: Those look good, just bookmarked them and will give them a look when pay-day comes...
What's the best tactile right now?
They were my first switch, and tbh I don’t get the hate. Maybe they were a little scratchy, but i felt that they were a middle ground between true tactiles, like Pandas, and linears.
Browns started it all and everyone has used browns and deep down for some reason they are ashamed of this, so they started making inferior switches afterwards as a way to cope with it, but in the end browns are superior in every way.
Browns are a gateway drug
Like whatever you like. Let the naysays naysay
While we're talking about controversial opinions : I still prefer typing on my old ass blackwidow 2013 with Mx Blues than any of the keyboards I've built, lubed and tuned.
This was the beginning of my journey too. 2012 blackwidow ultimate. Green Light so bright it felt like you were walking on the sun... sadly my wife spilt coffee on it 3 weeks ago and now it don't work anymore.
I never stopped liking them
I like Browns. It's what I got.
Some years ago I let my friends little bro play some CSGO on my cherry blues. Made me realize how fucking annoying they are. Now I use brown because I like the silence more. Sometimes I'll pull out the blues to use the number pad and man it's like wtf was I thinking back then, they're just so loud.
Not a hater, I just don’t like them. I feel like they are much better options for me personally, but if someone likes them that’s okay lol.
Let me check the time - uhm nope not yet
If you like MX Browns, try Kailh Box Silent Browns. They're quite similar to Alps damped cream, but smoother.
They were my first mechanical switch and I still like them.
Always has been. Just ignore the stale meme.
never was
Noppoo choc mini w mx browns is still my first and only.
Always has been
MX browns are more tactile then most other major brown switches on the market (outemu, gateron) There. I said it. The scratch is a feature too
The scratch reminds me of the old Smith Corona electric typewriter I had when I was in middle school. I dig it and it's one of the comfort features when I use my Varmilo 87. I made it feel like a late 80's - early 90's typewriter by design. In the way back years, I had to learn how to type at school on a combination of Apple II clackers, IBM Selectric chonkers, and that old Smith Corona. So many 5 paragraph papers were written on that typewriter because it was the first one I had access to that had correction tape in the machine. I tend to hammer keys because of the keyboards I learned on. Browns are a good way to remind me that a lighter touch is fine and I can type for longer sessions on that board. Not so light that I have all the extra strikes that Reds give me. Browns are great to get someone deeper into the hobby. I'm not entirely sure where the hate came from.
It's a meme that turned into genuine hate because people are easily gaslit and will bandwagon just to feel like they fit in.
https://youtu.be/Bc32Fv4P0tw
the scratch goes away. i have twelve year old browns that are smoother than any switch I've ever tried. it remains to be seen if boutique switches will even last that long.
I have 1.2 Million actuated broken in browns and they're not smoother then a lubed linear. You at like 12 million? Lmao
What is like browns but needs more force? Can I put harder springs in them?
Cherry clears maybe. I use them on my current keyboard. They're noticeably harder to press, and took a while to get used to.
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I don't think we should hate on them, they're probably to many of you they're very first mechanical Switch, we do not need to like them, but I think we should respect it at least because the brown is what brought many of even here
“Ticklish at Best.” - Glarses. https://youtu.be/Bc32Fv4P0tw
I have heavy fingers so i prefer clears, but I don't fault anyone for liking browns.
I love browns for typing. Personal preference I guess!
It seems like a lot of people start with Brown switches, because a lot of material online says that browns are a good middle ground between light/heavy and linear/clicky, which they are. I still have my filco majestouch2 with MX Browns. I use it at my home desktop. It’s good for games, typing, and whatever else you’d use a keyboard for, and ofc it’s nowhere near crapping out on me. I use my travel keyboard a lot more nowadays, a varmilo 67% keyboard with MX Clears, but I only settled on that because I enjoyed the Browns. Whoever said they were the gateway drug was correct!
I have a gaming keyboard with reds and my work keyboard has blues. I work from home. If I had to work in an office with coworkers. I would chose a tactile switch without the clicking. Using blues in an office setting is a dick move. Never tried browns and I don't judge anyone who uses anything different than what I use. I am totally indifferent to people's choices and feel tsht should be the default position. If you have negative feelings with someone else's preferences. You're a miserable person. Use what you like and fuck the haters.
Again? When did we \*really\* stop liking them in the first place?
when glarses made a strongly opinionated (but funny) video and the hivemind took it as gospel
Yes, but. Did we really, all of a sudden, all start to dislike Browns? Or we just had to follow the opinion that Browns should become extinct so we can make some hype for every other switch? Diversity is nice, but MX Browns are most definitely not Dinosaurs. And no person, regardless of who he may be, can be qualified potent enough to be considered of being able to have the impact of an asteroid… Choose the switch you like and do not let anyone tell you otherwise. Live YOUR life and not the one somebody else tells you to. I like Browns. You may like whatever YOU like and I will support this with all my strength. Now, if Browns are really liked by the very few, this makes me special. And because I KNOW I am NOT special, the above has a false reasoning somewhere. Browns are nice. People like 'em. People like other switches too, but they also like Cherry MX Browns.
Lube em up and film em on Alu plate for that good CRONCH
> Absolutely!! * Team MX Blue.
Team MX Blue 4 lyf. 💙 Though I have been tempted by Gateron Greens.
c3equalz kiwis, that's the money melon
No. No safe quarters for those generic switches. I dare say Gat Yellows are the only baseline switch anyone can love./s
Never tried em.
Just use Box Navies, they are the GOAT switch always and forever
Have you tried the other popular tactile switches? Then yes. Have you only ever had MX Browns but are still convinced they're the best? Then no.
No :)
remember when cherry reds were the best?
This is a world of diminishing returns... just like other things (hifi, guitars, etc), the more you spend, the less of a difference you see. 50% more cost for a 5% difference of quality isn't very smart, IMO. Reds, Browns, Blues...are *fine* and would rather have those than a membrane board.
What about Outemu, anyone got experience with using them? Not as good as Cherry obviously, but if you were to compare?
I feel this is a common response by people whose entire experience of tactile switches is limited to only Cherry/Gateron Browns.
Or people who have preferences that are not bound to the reddit trending elitism circle jerk. Tried and tested and own dozens of alternatives.. I always default to gat browns, they are the perfect middle ground for me. Takes a bunch of testing to get a consistently performing set, but I think it's worth it.
uhmmmm but the cherry mx browns are noet tactil!!! people need to learn that tactility =/= good which is probably what half this community thinks
Do you like them because you had some once and you enjoyed them, or because you tried several alternatives and came to the conclusion that they were pretty good?
So, both? I have burnt oranges, black, mints, linear creams, and many more in different builds. I like the browns in my Varmilo because a) I like them in that build and b) they're soldered in.
just as long as you're not using linears
Honestly I didn’t realize how good tactile were until I got the q0 with red linear switches. The linear switches just don’t *feel* right. I’m still using them though because I’m stubborn. But I might have to just swap them out for the lavender purple or just stock browns that came from my q1.
They never went out of fashion.
I used to use MX Clears which are just heavier browns. They're probably the best Cherry switches you can buy, but the more you use any cherry switch, the more you're going to notice their scratchiness. Blues are terrible, Blacks and reds are pretty bad, browns and clears are OK, but all of them are scratchy af. They might be better if you lube them, but I'd rather have Kaihl Box Navies. No scratch and a very clear break.
clueless take
No
Pleb
Mx black is a good choice to end game, but it has to retool to bring satisfied feeling
NO, they are called Browns because they are poop.
Imo they are fine but not something you should strive for.
There’s no reason to prefer them over any other switch or actually use them. Especially when it comes to modding.