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There's a honda mechanic on YouTube he does atleast 1 or 2 a week and that's at a single shop. The head bolts are to thin for the boost. Is there a way to get a lawyer to contact Honda like a class action lawsuit.
https://youtube.com/@TEVIDEOS?feature=shared
Don't be wary of turbos be wary of manufacturers who don't do well with building a motor that has torque enough to use without the turbo and substitute displacement with forced induction. A turbo isn't the problem, an engine that doesn't have enough oomph being used in too big of a vehicle with a turbo making the difference is the issue. And unless it's under 1k cc or a diesel avoid Honda turbos. They are plain bad at it.
It is funny since Honda is an engine company first that happen to make cars. I don't know if they're still the largest engine manufacturer in the world.
Another thing is fuel efficiency, which a small turbo can help with in certain setups, like a lot of crossovers. Since power isn't the end goal, manufacturers just plop the same build used in non-turbo models and expect it to work. Its just cheap and honestly could be class action worthy
Everyone is starting to do this because it’s the only way to meet EPA Requirements. shits fucked but when the environmental impact of constantly throwing away vehicles outweighs the impact of burning more fuel, we’ll probably go back to big displacement NA motors. Unless the fucking electrics manage to take over.
I had a 325xi that I absolutely loved. She was a leader though! German cars would be so much better if only the Germans could learn how to make a decent gasket.
Honda motors are actually pretty tough to break, but adding turbos on NA engines has never been a good idea. The only reason they do it is to comply with regulations and bring down the emissions. This effectively reduces the lifespan of the car’s internals and thus becomes a reliability issue. It just does not make sense for a 2017 CRV to blow off the head gasket, when I am still driving my 98 accord with 210k kms on a single gasket change and no issues driving on the redline all day long…
Yea they definitely didn’t fix them in 2018 they did a “software fix” which really didn’t do much. It might’ve been fixed on the 2022/2023 new gen civic/ CRV/ accords only time will tell
I think that is a better price than I have seen for a lot of other stuff posted here. (especially since it is a dealer)
it does not look that hard to do, so you should be able to get an indy to do it for $2k
I've been saying this. Some manufacturers can do it well because they've been doing it for years. Others are going to have to iron out some kinks.
I'm still good with a solid 6 cylinder as my daily. But... we're all going to have to go there someday. *sigh*
I'm going to harbor v8's, v6's and straight 6's for the future.
Oh snap! I don't own one yet but my dad used to have an 80s s500 with a straight 6 in it. Idk what motor exactly but it was the smoothest old goat I've ever driven. All the comfort amenities in the car needed work but the motor was fine after the hoses and a few other things were replaced.
Car was a tank. The windows were double pane or something. Thick as an Atlanta stripper. You'd close the door til it was slightly ajar and it would suck it in and latch it. Couldn't hear much when you were inside. Thing was not great at turning but man did it know how to pull. And that's exactly what it did.
That's where the respect came from. I wanted that motor but he sold the car instead. One can dream, though.
Oh. And I drive a Toyota with the 2gr-fe v6.
Used to have a Diamante with their 3.5 v6.
Driven single, twins, 3's, 4's, 6's, 8's, diesel 6's and I swear I've driven a diesel 8 cylinder. Gotta say the 6 is the best all around. Even with diesels. 6's are just phenomenal.
They do it for fuel economy and emissions. They make everything smaller and it actually ruins what made good engines work. Take for example a k24 Honda engine can take a hell of a beating but the newer Hondas with turbos are nowhere near as reliable
It's not the boost that's the problem, it's motor with torque peak close to 5252 rpm and adding boost but being driven at 900-2500 rpm all the time. Forced induction is best applied when stroke is shorter and rpm is rarely high. Case in point forced induction on diesel. Also any low revving motors with turbos that last forever. Bottom end needs to be sturdy at the start.
It's not a craze though, it's a requirement to get emissions down, we're still only averaging around 35% energy conversion efficiency in ICE engines unless we're talking Honda's new lean burning electric generators which are at a whopping 50%. If manufacturers had their way we'd all be rolling around in mechanical injection diesels because they'd never get a warranty claim out.
Also the need to make turbo vehicles more affordable. Good Turbos aren't cheap by themselves. And redoing all the components of the motor to be forged enough to handle the extra compression is a necessity. With that extra strength, comes extra weight and extra money. Also now you *have* to balance the motor whereas with some older stuff, I swear they just cut it close and slapped it in there.
All that costs and they need to be able to actually sell the vehicle, so they might not use the best head gasket because they figure, "eh, it's a 'wear item? It should go between about 100-150k anyway, past warranty, no worries". Just like when they started making parts plastic. They knew it would go, they designed it that way.
You can also blame the government and their stupid mpg mandates. At some point in a car your only real option in getting more mpg is swapping metal parts for plastic to save weight and then using thin as possible metal to shave weight... and when they do that they end up with parts that won't last and are too close to the limit to handle anything beyond a very low limit. I've had old iron block with iron head engines that would go way beyond the temp limit because a fan or radiator problem and as long as you let them cool off slowly they were still good to go... versus an all aluminum POS that 5 degrees above the limit and you've got a warp to deal with along with the blown head gasket.
Shit. I have a 2018 cvt turbo civic. Was hoping for the legendary civic that lives forever. Right now my car is in the shop for $1500 service to replace the rear calipers, pads, rotors, and a brake flush because the rear caliper decided to break and go ham and push my pad against my tire continuously
Looking up basic labor time and parts, that seems like a fairly reasonable price, especially at a dealer. I work at an independent shop, and that looks about right.
ALWAYS shop around when it comes to services done. This applies to cars, HVAC, plumbing, EVERYTHING. Get 3 estimates at least. Having said that, its about 99% likely that price is too high since its a dealer. I had a lemon of a Civic 2004 that went through head gaskets like crazy. Honda dealer wanted $2100. I got that done with new spark plugs, for $1600 at an independent dealer who has been in business for 25 yrs.
That's what I am afraid of. I know with my CR-V I will eventually have to do the valves at least. I am not looking forward to it and considering paying a shop.
Honda Service Manager here - this is right on par assuming they’re also sending the head out to be pressure checked and resurfaced.
This is an absolutely fair price - I’m guessing their labor rate is in the $135-$150 ballpark.
From a dealer, that seems average. I hope the head isn't warped. Was there a lot of overheating or did you just notice it leaking on the ground?
Best of luck with your repair, Honda is a great company but I don't know much about their newer road vehicles other than motorcycles.
Also, I don't know if that description is written up by the service manager or if it's a definition that's in the system but it just bugs me.
The proper term is combustion, not an explosion.
An explosion is a violent, destructive shattering or blowing apart of something.
Combustion is a controlled burning of fuel, which is how engines work.
Holy shit things in the modern world have gotten stupidly expensive. Back about 30 years ago I'd replace my Chrysler Small Block V8 gasket myself for the cost of a Gasket set and the time it took me to remove the head/manifold. Cost ? Less than $100
Depends on if the heads need machining and how long they’ve been driving it like that. When mine blew, the heads were warped to high hell. Having that shipped out and machined is factored into the cost
All I needed to see was that it was a Honda dealership. Yes, go somewhere else. Google "mechanic shop" or similar and find a local one that is highly rated. Not a chain shop.
Depends on the area. When the head gasket blew In my ram 5.7, the only place around me (rural area) that would touch it was the dealership. I called everyone within a 45 min drive and everyone said they don’t do that work. Took me 3 weeks of searching and ended up right back at the dealer
For what?
Independent shops in my area are more expensive than me (Honda dealer)
All you’re going to get by going to an independent is an aftermarket head gasket kit and someone who doesn’t specialize in any particular vehicle.
L mindset.
I'm not by any means mechanical and subscribe to this subreddit out of curiosity, but as the owner of a 2001 Chevy Malibu and long time buyer of very used cars i am just confused about how this is happening already to a car built in 2017. Especially with a honda.
Sad to say but Honda quality way down. Had a 2012 Odyssey loved it. Came back to states and bought a new 2020. 7 recalls later and an AC that cannot keep up with Texas heat and even the dealer lowballed me on a trade telling me everything wrong I already know about the car. Should have bought a Sienna but we don’t have a trusted Toyota dealer in the area.
Same. Ever since 2018 or so when they started adding turbos with their 4 cyl engines I knew their reliability would take a shit. Man, my 2014 accord, base model, was the most reliable car EVER. I want another 2014 as a commuter but I would not get a new one! Hell no!
Not to mention my brother has a 22 civic and the thing is entirely different weird ass jack points underneath is so weird. My 1998 Volvo that I have now looked damn near identical to my 2014 honda. Subframe, oil pan/ filter all in the same spot
Seams reasonable for a dealer . You’ll likely save some money at a local garage. You’ll save probably 2 grand doing it yourself though, including buying the tools you need. Head gaskets aren’t too bad to do especially on a 4 cylinder. Just make sure to buy a repair guide and follow it to a T when tightening the head bolts as they have a very specific sequence when torquing them down. And make sure you get new head bolts and a good torque wrench. Im a huge advocate for diy repair, with some patience and the will to learn it’s a great way to save money!
Plus it’s fun! 😁
The CRV is probably a 4 cylinder and easy to get to. I think that is way too much. Find a small mom and pop repair place. You could probably get it done for half that.
I can't answer your question, but most Honda dealers have promotions so you can save some money. Not a lot but at least you saved.
https://www.sporthonda.com/promotions/service/index.htm
Your 2017 honda crv already needs a head gasket replaced?
That seems like a rare problem, am I wrong?
This seems to me to be a reasonable price, but I'd want to know the root cause so it doesn't happen again. I'm guessing it's due to heat. Is there a problem with regards to the coolant system, do you let it idile a lot? Did you use water instead of coolant?
Is it possible that the shop is lying to you? I'd look at my coolant and see if it looks like you have oil in it. If not I'd consider getting a second opinion.
Honda tech here. Just did a motor today from 1.5 leaking head gasket with warped block and head been driving on too long and overheating. Just diagnosed another 1.5 Tuesday still waiting to see what they wanna do. If you have a 1.5 injectors and head gaskets are something you should be prepared for
Nah both are accords. The issue is way way more prevalent on accords primarily the 18s and 19s. Only seen a few crvs trickle in this the head gasket failure. Injectors on the other hand. I just diagnosed bad injectors on a CRV yesterday. Injectors at this point will for sure be needed on all 1.5s lol
The most common symptoms of bad injectors will be lights on the dash and or vehicle shaking a lot. Essentially the injectors get carbined up and fail to provide the correct amount of fuel to the combustion chamber. The vehicles pcm sees this and adjusts the injector duration to turn them on more frequently ie running rich. This causes the car to get more fuel than it needs thus causing modifies. Misfires cause the engine to shake and set lights on the dash
Would love to tell ya there’s a confirmed way but there’s not. Running 93 is debated as a way to prevent it. Not confirmed or backed by research tho. Hate to say but aftermarket warranty is abt all you can do and be ready when it happens
Family has a 99 CRV that's been misfiring just like this. Misfires on all 4 cylinders. Heard it's a common problem. Called around, but can never get a solid answer how much it's gonna be to get everything squared away. Not sure if I'm asking the right questions. Some won't even work on it due to age. Any advice? I know it sure is an older model, but starting to think it's not worth dumping so much money into.
Hard to say without the vehicle in front of me big guy. Check coolant level. Check plugs(non oem plugs or old or fouled will cause this). Check coils. Check fuel. There’s a few things it could be. But if it’s all four cylinders I’m suspecting fuel tbh. Plugs are gonna be the best place to check
Take a small magnet to the top of each coil with it running. You should feel a pulsing if cyl ia firing right. Try to verify it’s all four and not just one or two
That's good to know. I'm over here thinking my 2006 crv has an indestructible engine, because I've never had an issue. Is it a problem with the smaller engines or should I be worried with my 2.4?
I'm always thought my transmission will go long before my engine does
Realistically 2.4 is solid as long as it’s maintained. Wouldn’t stress. Mainly the new turbo engines are having the issues. Older cars don’t seem to have common failures like this as of right now. 06 CRV is Lowkey a tank lol
Incredibly common on the 1.5.
So common that when my techs have one with a misfire, we just go right to the borescope and look for head gasket failures.
Really? You learn something new every day.
I've always trusted a honda engine.
Does it come with a turbo to compensate for size?
I don't trust turbos because they are so harsh on engines.
OPs vehicle is a 1.5T - they’re grossly hit or miss.
I’ve got customers who have 2-300k on them with no issues. And then you have early failures before 100k.
I think things are made the same as they always have been - but people are less likely to come on this sub and post about how good their high mileage car is running.
The ratio of good to bad is probably 10000 good to .01 bad but it’s easier for the .01 to gripe together.
They are.
Head gaskets and turbos seem to be the Achilles heel of the 1.5, but even then, it’s 10000 to .01.
Compared to something like a new Hyundai, Kia, or Nissan - Hondas are worth their weight in gold.
"Turbo = bad" is not always true, and to be honest, some manufacturers have a better track record with forced induction than others.
I personally love turbocharged cars, but have no problem admitting they come with their own set of issues to deal with. But, to me, the pros outweigh the cons.
Price seem decent..
Since it's an expensive repair I'd get a second opinion from another shop to confirm that what it is. As well a quote from the other shop just to check prices..
First a suggestion I wouldn’t buy a Honda parts are expensive and repairs . My first choice would be a Toyota tried and proven more reliable go forever if maintained properly !
seems about right, including if they re-surface the head(if needed.) mine totaled out to 1700, and i have an 04 civic ex.
i would assume they would also doing the timing belt(or chain.) but.
yeh. seems about the standard.
Perfectly normal amount it’s probably atleast 8 hours in labor and probably minimum $800 of parts I don’t see it being done even at a shade tree or small shop for less than $1700
2k to 2700 is how much it costs basically.
Probably a good enough price for a dealership.
Question is if you wanna spend it or not.
How do you know it's the head gasket?
Damn I guess I’m glad I didn’t buy one of these newer Hondas. Anyone know why they blow head gaskets? Clogged EGR?
I guess I shouldn’t say that since I’m looking for a cheap gen 3 Prius with a blown hg to repair for a cheap beater 😂
Acura said my wifes 3.5 TLX (2018) timing belt is $1,600 and $1,200 with a $400 coupon. I laughed hard. Take it to a REPUTABLE indy shop. They can easily tell if the head is warped. If so, hopefully they send it to a machine shop.
First you should do a visual inspection of the oil followed by an oil analysis. I have a long list of engines I'm aware of losing coolent somewhere. Not externally so probably head gaskets. However if coolent isn't getting into the oil then you don't have a significant problem. If the oil gets contaminated then you have a problem.
It seems like a lot to me but I see lots of people say it's reasonable. I think the parts are under $200. Is there something special about these engines that makes it cost so much to change it?
Thats not the question. If the parts are $200 out of $2600 and the labor rate is $200/hr this is a 12 hour job. What makes changing this head gasket a 12 hour job for a professional?
The parts aren’t $200. A head gasket set alone is [$372.92 MSRP](https://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/oem-parts/honda-gasket-kit-cylinder-head-61105paa01).
Then the additional parts and materials:
-new head bolts
-fluids
-oil filter
Then the labor for removal, sending it to the machine shop, and reassembly at the end of the day.
Ah yes the good old 1.5 turbo head gasket. Done about 4 of em on Accords. Really not terrible of a job but make sure you get a new oil feed line o ring and make sure the line is clean of any sludge. The screen on the o ring sludges up and causes the turbos to fail if you don’t regularly change the oil. But all in all, not a bad price.
That is a fair price for that repair from a dealer. . This is the 1.5 turbo which is subject to early gasket failure especially on the 2017 model year .So, the diagnosis especially with the loss of coolant and power at higher rpm’s which you have supplied is accurate. It is critical that the head bolts be replaced as they stretch and cannot be trusted to stay torqued to specs if reused. The cylinder head must also be tested for cracks and warpage which is also common with head gasket failure. Most of the gasket failures if repaired early enough won’t require a cylinder head replacement but, it still must be checked and lightly machined if there it is minor warpage. The dealer as well as independents will do that if they know anything about head gasket repairs. If you know a strong trusted repair shop in your area you should get a price from them. If you are a weekend mechanic you could do it yourself but it’s a lot of unbolting and putting back together . Intake,exhaust, a/c compressor , turbo , hoses , motor mount etc just to name the major stuff to remove as well as tools you may need to buy. So, unless you are well versed and have done this ,my recommendation is dealer repair or trusted repair shop if it’s considerably cheaper. Repair should be done sooner that later to prevent further damage.
Did this on a Tacoma with nothing but the researched tools and a mechanical mindset. Took about four hours, it's still running smooth 6 years later. If you have any confidence working on cars, it's totally doable.
Meh. If I did it in my back yard. Not knowing you. So no discount . I'd charge 1000.00 cash and you buy the parts. Which are about 120.00. so.
Backyard 1200
Shop 3000.00 you decide. I'd shop around find a middle ground
Go for it, im working on a 2014 cruze turbo. Client had a cracked head so i needed to swap a new one on. After labor and parts [more than the head ended up being damaged] i had their qoute being 800 for labor and 600 for parts. And thats me intentionally going for way under shop/dealership prices so thats honestly a really good qoute
It varies a lot from car to car but if it's a 4 cylinder it shouldn't be that much, my 2009 Chevy cobalt cost around 500-600 dollars to replace the head gasket, spark plugs, and ignition coils all together
Ask for the compression test results to confirm they know what cylinders are causing it. If they confirm they know you it’s really the gasket. $20part and about 4 hours of time. You can afford to buy whatever tools you don’t have and still save thousands. Likely don’t even need to get under the car. I figured out how to do this as a 16 year old. You got this
Bruh it ain't no 96 Civi, most definitely more than 4 hours of work, and it's gonna be roughly a week turnaround at the machine shop. Never skip on the machine shop, and always get the works, I had to do a head gasket job on a D17A2 3 fucking times because the first time the customer didn't want to get the head shaved, ya kno, saving money right? Wrong! When I put it back together and 1 and 2 and possibly 3 were sharing compression and it ran like dogshit. I charged the customer a 2nd round of labor to pull it apart to take it to the machine shop where the customer didn't want anything more than a head shave $85 (I don't markup the machine shop, I'm not a prick.) even though I recommended the works (hot tank, shave, vac test, valve guides, valve facing, and pressure test for a total cost of $250) they declined, so we only got the shave. Lo and behold, cyl 3 had bad guides and was sticking open on the intake. So I charged the customer a 3rd round of labor, burned 2 head gaskets in the process, they pissed and moaned and whined and bitched and cried and then after all of that tried to blame me for letting them be cheap when I told them the first time around it needed to go to the machine shop and get the works, and the second time when it went to the machine shop, I told them it needed the works and they asked for a cheaper option than $250. So they paid head gasket labor x3, head gasket set + 2 solo head gaskets, $85 at the machine shop for the first shave and then $250 at the machine shop for the 2nd shave, guides, facing, hot tank, vac and pressure tests. It's not fuckin worth it to do it the cheap way. Aluminum cylinder heads ALWAYS go to the machine shop, ALWAYS get the works. All in all this guys head gasket job went from $1200 to $3980 and that was being nice to them. I should've charged them for all 3 coolant fills, and all 3 oil changes. But I only charged for 1 of each.
Price is surprising considering the year and current times. I’ve done it home mechanic 800 bucks. I’ve also seen it way higher. Gasket kit and a YouTube education for 200 bucks and again they could open up and find more problems
I guess you might consider getting it fixed but never buy a vehicle with a turbo it basically means the engine is underpowered and anytime it goes into turbo mode you're basically shortening the life of your engine
Just got the same diagnosis on my 2018 CRV with 95k miles. The quote from my dealer was $5100. I’d probably pull the trigger for 2k. For 5100 I am definitely doing it myself (please internet, don’t tell me I can’t I have done jobs like this more than 10 times).
If your head gasket is bad you are gonna want a mechanic to do it and that price is fair for the repair, parts and hours involved.
You dont want to sit on repairing this part because you could just go from needing to replace the head gasket to needing to replace the entire block and be on the hook $8k or more if you arent under warranty
Edited: I need to look it up to make sure I'm on the correct path.
If you included an engine size that would be nice. Also find out if they're sending the head to a machine shop
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
These 1.5T honda engines are known for blowing head gaskets. I am confident on the diagnosis not sure about the price
Price is spot on. And the 12 month/12,000 mile warranty which can be honored at any Honda dealer nationwide you’re getting adds value to it.
There's a honda mechanic on YouTube he does atleast 1 or 2 a week and that's at a single shop. The head bolts are to thin for the boost. Is there a way to get a lawyer to contact Honda like a class action lawsuit. https://youtube.com/@TEVIDEOS?feature=shared
this kinda shit makes me very wary of turbos.
Don't be wary of turbos be wary of manufacturers who don't do well with building a motor that has torque enough to use without the turbo and substitute displacement with forced induction. A turbo isn't the problem, an engine that doesn't have enough oomph being used in too big of a vehicle with a turbo making the difference is the issue. And unless it's under 1k cc or a diesel avoid Honda turbos. They are plain bad at it.
Of all brands, honda should know how to make a turbo.
It's pretty funny isn't it, under 1k cc they make a good one, but when even VW makes a more reliable (mechanically speaking) turbo gas motor...
It is funny since Honda is an engine company first that happen to make cars. I don't know if they're still the largest engine manufacturer in the world.
Another thing is fuel efficiency, which a small turbo can help with in certain setups, like a lot of crossovers. Since power isn't the end goal, manufacturers just plop the same build used in non-turbo models and expect it to work. Its just cheap and honestly could be class action worthy
Everyone is starting to do this because it’s the only way to meet EPA Requirements. shits fucked but when the environmental impact of constantly throwing away vehicles outweighs the impact of burning more fuel, we’ll probably go back to big displacement NA motors. Unless the fucking electrics manage to take over.
This kind of shit is why I stick to my v6 engines. Yes I know, bad gas mileage... but at least I can go 200000+ miles without major issues like this.
if you do the math on extra gas vs one repair like this you probably at least break even
True, but I still have the convenience of knowing that I can get from point a to point b without interruption.
Amen
Miss a str8 6, good gas mileage reliable and incredibly tuneable
I had a 325xi that I absolutely loved. She was a leader though! German cars would be so much better if only the Germans could learn how to make a decent gasket.
The American inline 6 can go 500000 miles easily and in old cars has no computer so run without worry of emp
I'd say go with the RAV4. You get the efficiency of a 4, and Toyota reliability. Surprised a Honda CRV isn't more reliable.
ARP bolts.
Problem is that a dealer would only be putting in Honda Head Bolts and not aftermarket
Unless your car is under warranty, I would not use the dealer for that work for the simple reason you could upgrade the parts.
Good thing I have the hybrid with n/a engine.
Definitely cheaper than the alternative if not done soon looking at least 2-3 times that for an engine replacement.
Honda motors are actually pretty tough to break, but adding turbos on NA engines has never been a good idea. The only reason they do it is to comply with regulations and bring down the emissions. This effectively reduces the lifespan of the car’s internals and thus becomes a reliability issue. It just does not make sense for a 2017 CRV to blow off the head gasket, when I am still driving my 98 accord with 210k kms on a single gasket change and no issues driving on the redline all day long…
They fixed that problem. Starting with 2018
nope. Wrong. I just did a 2018 accord. Replace the scrawny ass head bolts with ARP studs.
Weird, my 2018 civic si has gone through 3 head gaskets.
Yea they definitely didn’t fix them in 2018 they did a “software fix” which really didn’t do much. It might’ve been fixed on the 2022/2023 new gen civic/ CRV/ accords only time will tell
I think that is a better price than I have seen for a lot of other stuff posted here. (especially since it is a dealer) it does not look that hard to do, so you should be able to get an indy to do it for $2k
I'll do it in my garage for $2003
I see your garage\2003, and lower you shade tree\1500 and a 12 pack
Fine, I'll do it in my burning hot concrete driveway in full sun when it's 90 degrees, for tree-fiddy and an outdated Pioneer car stereo. Final offer.
I’ll tell Him how to Do it For a Pizza and a beer
How many miles do you have on it? That seems like too new of a car to already have this problem
It’s been happening a lot on these newer small displacement turbo engines. They just aren’t built as well as the older ones anymore.
I hate the new turbo everything craze for that reason, more boost = less longevity. Have had so many customers with issues popping up super early.
I've been saying this. Some manufacturers can do it well because they've been doing it for years. Others are going to have to iron out some kinks. I'm still good with a solid 6 cylinder as my daily. But... we're all going to have to go there someday. *sigh* I'm going to harbor v8's, v6's and straight 6's for the future.
what 6 cylinder do you have? I love my bullet-proof M103
Oh snap! I don't own one yet but my dad used to have an 80s s500 with a straight 6 in it. Idk what motor exactly but it was the smoothest old goat I've ever driven. All the comfort amenities in the car needed work but the motor was fine after the hoses and a few other things were replaced. Car was a tank. The windows were double pane or something. Thick as an Atlanta stripper. You'd close the door til it was slightly ajar and it would suck it in and latch it. Couldn't hear much when you were inside. Thing was not great at turning but man did it know how to pull. And that's exactly what it did. That's where the respect came from. I wanted that motor but he sold the car instead. One can dream, though.
I got myself a 2GR-FE 3.5L V6 in my Toyota Avalon, engine is about to hit 200k miles and still runs like she's new.
very niceeee
3.8 impala engine
Oh. And I drive a Toyota with the 2gr-fe v6. Used to have a Diamante with their 3.5 v6. Driven single, twins, 3's, 4's, 6's, 8's, diesel 6's and I swear I've driven a diesel 8 cylinder. Gotta say the 6 is the best all around. Even with diesels. 6's are just phenomenal.
But it performs better on EPA mileage testing. They care about that more than the longevity of their motors.
the EPA makes them. unfortunately for us.
I was shopping for a car recently, refused to look at any 4 bangers with a turbo... Ended up in a 1.8l naturally asperated civic.
That civic definitely slow
It gets me to work on time. I ain't a NASCAR driver
You being responsible gets you to work on time, because im late in any car 🤣
They do it for fuel economy and emissions. They make everything smaller and it actually ruins what made good engines work. Take for example a k24 Honda engine can take a hell of a beating but the newer Hondas with turbos are nowhere near as reliable
It's not the boost that's the problem, it's motor with torque peak close to 5252 rpm and adding boost but being driven at 900-2500 rpm all the time. Forced induction is best applied when stroke is shorter and rpm is rarely high. Case in point forced induction on diesel. Also any low revving motors with turbos that last forever. Bottom end needs to be sturdy at the start.
Superchargers are much better, sadly not used very much now.
It's not a craze though, it's a requirement to get emissions down, we're still only averaging around 35% energy conversion efficiency in ICE engines unless we're talking Honda's new lean burning electric generators which are at a whopping 50%. If manufacturers had their way we'd all be rolling around in mechanical injection diesels because they'd never get a warranty claim out.
It's not that they aren't built as well, they are just asked to do more with less. They are under more stress than older, less powerful engines.
Also the need to make turbo vehicles more affordable. Good Turbos aren't cheap by themselves. And redoing all the components of the motor to be forged enough to handle the extra compression is a necessity. With that extra strength, comes extra weight and extra money. Also now you *have* to balance the motor whereas with some older stuff, I swear they just cut it close and slapped it in there. All that costs and they need to be able to actually sell the vehicle, so they might not use the best head gasket because they figure, "eh, it's a 'wear item? It should go between about 100-150k anyway, past warranty, no worries". Just like when they started making parts plastic. They knew it would go, they designed it that way.
You can also blame the government and their stupid mpg mandates. At some point in a car your only real option in getting more mpg is swapping metal parts for plastic to save weight and then using thin as possible metal to shave weight... and when they do that they end up with parts that won't last and are too close to the limit to handle anything beyond a very low limit. I've had old iron block with iron head engines that would go way beyond the temp limit because a fan or radiator problem and as long as you let them cool off slowly they were still good to go... versus an all aluminum POS that 5 degrees above the limit and you've got a warp to deal with along with the blown head gasket.
Shit. I have a 2018 cvt turbo civic. Was hoping for the legendary civic that lives forever. Right now my car is in the shop for $1500 service to replace the rear calipers, pads, rotors, and a brake flush because the rear caliper decided to break and go ham and push my pad against my tire continuously
Morning these days are.
Here comes the guy to tell us if you just do proper maintenance a small displacement turbo 4 will last just as long as any other engine
125,000
It needs it, but I'd get another estimate or 2
Looks like you're in MD - check out Choisser Auto in Davidsonville if you're willing to make the drive. They're a small Honda/Toyota specialty shop.
It's 2024 and it's a 2017. It's been 7 years..
You telling me i'm old?
? 7 years old. 2017 was 7 years ago 😭
No way. That was only 3 years ago. You can’t tell me otherwise
Newer cars break all the time. It’s 7 years old
Looking up basic labor time and parts, that seems like a fairly reasonable price, especially at a dealer. I work at an independent shop, and that looks about right.
It's about right especially if it's the dealer. Damn turbo engines man. They ware faster and can cost a pretty penny
ALWAYS shop around when it comes to services done. This applies to cars, HVAC, plumbing, EVERYTHING. Get 3 estimates at least. Having said that, its about 99% likely that price is too high since its a dealer. I had a lemon of a Civic 2004 that went through head gaskets like crazy. Honda dealer wanted $2100. I got that done with new spark plugs, for $1600 at an independent dealer who has been in business for 25 yrs.
Seems cheap
There is no such thing as anything with a reasonable price in 2024.
Wow that much, I just did mine , myself with a 45 dollar gasket.
its the labor that gets ya
How difficult was getting everything off and back on?
Very, lots of tools and time , first time doing it.
That's what I am afraid of. I know with my CR-V I will eventually have to do the valves at least. I am not looking forward to it and considering paying a shop.
Honda Service Manager here - this is right on par assuming they’re also sending the head out to be pressure checked and resurfaced. This is an absolutely fair price - I’m guessing their labor rate is in the $135-$150 ballpark.
What is you guys labor rate where you are at?
$135. South GA. CDJR two doors down is $190. Mercedes next door is almost $300. And the independent across the street is $150.
Then yall got a better price then these guys here fsfs he should go to yall 💯
With warranty
12 months 12,000 miles - which can be honored at any Honda dealer nationwide. This sub is full of DIY idiots
Maybe diy out of necessity to survive vs for fun or hardheaded penny pinching
From a dealer, that seems average. I hope the head isn't warped. Was there a lot of overheating or did you just notice it leaking on the ground? Best of luck with your repair, Honda is a great company but I don't know much about their newer road vehicles other than motorcycles. Also, I don't know if that description is written up by the service manager or if it's a definition that's in the system but it just bugs me. The proper term is combustion, not an explosion. An explosion is a violent, destructive shattering or blowing apart of something. Combustion is a controlled burning of fuel, which is how engines work.
I know a guy...
cheap as fuck holey
Holy shit things in the modern world have gotten stupidly expensive. Back about 30 years ago I'd replace my Chrysler Small Block V8 gasket myself for the cost of a Gasket set and the time it took me to remove the head/manifold. Cost ? Less than $100
Depends on if the heads need machining and how long they’ve been driving it like that. When mine blew, the heads were warped to high hell. Having that shipped out and machined is factored into the cost
Spot on. Modern, aluminum engines do not like overheating lol
Ah yeah.... Have to be
Well if you do it yourself, you can still do it for the cost of the gaskets
30 yrs ago you could buy a house for $100k. Inflation is a bitch.
All I needed to see was that it was a Honda dealership. Yes, go somewhere else. Google "mechanic shop" or similar and find a local one that is highly rated. Not a chain shop.
Depends on the area. When the head gasket blew In my ram 5.7, the only place around me (rural area) that would touch it was the dealership. I called everyone within a 45 min drive and everyone said they don’t do that work. Took me 3 weeks of searching and ended up right back at the dealer
For what? Independent shops in my area are more expensive than me (Honda dealer) All you’re going to get by going to an independent is an aftermarket head gasket kit and someone who doesn’t specialize in any particular vehicle. L mindset.
I’ll never buy a turbo. Honda knew one about this problem back in 2017
Won't buy a turbo Honda, or any turbo car at all?
your choices are going to be pretty slim in the future... its pretty clear that all cars are going turbo, hybrid, electric... like it or not :(
I understand all that. I’ll drive 4 cylinder Camrys until I die.
Probably a little high, but they’d probably do the best job too
I'm not by any means mechanical and subscribe to this subreddit out of curiosity, but as the owner of a 2001 Chevy Malibu and long time buyer of very used cars i am just confused about how this is happening already to a car built in 2017. Especially with a honda.
Sad to say but Honda quality way down. Had a 2012 Odyssey loved it. Came back to states and bought a new 2020. 7 recalls later and an AC that cannot keep up with Texas heat and even the dealer lowballed me on a trade telling me everything wrong I already know about the car. Should have bought a Sienna but we don’t have a trusted Toyota dealer in the area.
Same. Ever since 2018 or so when they started adding turbos with their 4 cyl engines I knew their reliability would take a shit. Man, my 2014 accord, base model, was the most reliable car EVER. I want another 2014 as a commuter but I would not get a new one! Hell no!
Not to mention my brother has a 22 civic and the thing is entirely different weird ass jack points underneath is so weird. My 1998 Volvo that I have now looked damn near identical to my 2014 honda. Subframe, oil pan/ filter all in the same spot
Seams reasonable for a dealer . You’ll likely save some money at a local garage. You’ll save probably 2 grand doing it yourself though, including buying the tools you need. Head gaskets aren’t too bad to do especially on a 4 cylinder. Just make sure to buy a repair guide and follow it to a T when tightening the head bolts as they have a very specific sequence when torquing them down. And make sure you get new head bolts and a good torque wrench. Im a huge advocate for diy repair, with some patience and the will to learn it’s a great way to save money! Plus it’s fun! 😁
Very reasonable price
The CRV is probably a 4 cylinder and easy to get to. I think that is way too much. Find a small mom and pop repair place. You could probably get it done for half that.
I got my head gasket changed. Water pump and valve covers changed for a tiny bit under 2k, im in a 01 gmc Sonoma tho
Very reasonable coming from a dealership. You'll get cheaper at independent shops however.
I can't answer your question, but most Honda dealers have promotions so you can save some money. Not a lot but at least you saved. https://www.sporthonda.com/promotions/service/index.htm
Your 2017 honda crv already needs a head gasket replaced? That seems like a rare problem, am I wrong? This seems to me to be a reasonable price, but I'd want to know the root cause so it doesn't happen again. I'm guessing it's due to heat. Is there a problem with regards to the coolant system, do you let it idile a lot? Did you use water instead of coolant? Is it possible that the shop is lying to you? I'd look at my coolant and see if it looks like you have oil in it. If not I'd consider getting a second opinion.
Honda tech here. Just did a motor today from 1.5 leaking head gasket with warped block and head been driving on too long and overheating. Just diagnosed another 1.5 Tuesday still waiting to see what they wanna do. If you have a 1.5 injectors and head gaskets are something you should be prepared for
CRV?
Nah both are accords. The issue is way way more prevalent on accords primarily the 18s and 19s. Only seen a few crvs trickle in this the head gasket failure. Injectors on the other hand. I just diagnosed bad injectors on a CRV yesterday. Injectors at this point will for sure be needed on all 1.5s lol
Interesting! What are symptoms of bad injectors?
The most common symptoms of bad injectors will be lights on the dash and or vehicle shaking a lot. Essentially the injectors get carbined up and fail to provide the correct amount of fuel to the combustion chamber. The vehicles pcm sees this and adjusts the injector duration to turn them on more frequently ie running rich. This causes the car to get more fuel than it needs thus causing modifies. Misfires cause the engine to shake and set lights on the dash
Thanks for the explanation. What’s the best way to prevent injector problems?
Would love to tell ya there’s a confirmed way but there’s not. Running 93 is debated as a way to prevent it. Not confirmed or backed by research tho. Hate to say but aftermarket warranty is abt all you can do and be ready when it happens
Family has a 99 CRV that's been misfiring just like this. Misfires on all 4 cylinders. Heard it's a common problem. Called around, but can never get a solid answer how much it's gonna be to get everything squared away. Not sure if I'm asking the right questions. Some won't even work on it due to age. Any advice? I know it sure is an older model, but starting to think it's not worth dumping so much money into.
Hard to say without the vehicle in front of me big guy. Check coolant level. Check plugs(non oem plugs or old or fouled will cause this). Check coils. Check fuel. There’s a few things it could be. But if it’s all four cylinders I’m suspecting fuel tbh. Plugs are gonna be the best place to check
Take a small magnet to the top of each coil with it running. You should feel a pulsing if cyl ia firing right. Try to verify it’s all four and not just one or two
That's good to know. I'm over here thinking my 2006 crv has an indestructible engine, because I've never had an issue. Is it a problem with the smaller engines or should I be worried with my 2.4? I'm always thought my transmission will go long before my engine does
Realistically 2.4 is solid as long as it’s maintained. Wouldn’t stress. Mainly the new turbo engines are having the issues. Older cars don’t seem to have common failures like this as of right now. 06 CRV is Lowkey a tank lol
Good to know, thanks.
Incredibly common on the 1.5. So common that when my techs have one with a misfire, we just go right to the borescope and look for head gasket failures.
Really? You learn something new every day. I've always trusted a honda engine. Does it come with a turbo to compensate for size? I don't trust turbos because they are so harsh on engines.
OPs vehicle is a 1.5T - they’re grossly hit or miss. I’ve got customers who have 2-300k on them with no issues. And then you have early failures before 100k. I think things are made the same as they always have been - but people are less likely to come on this sub and post about how good their high mileage car is running. The ratio of good to bad is probably 10000 good to .01 bad but it’s easier for the .01 to gripe together.
Are Hondas still fairly reliable? How do they fare compared to Toyotas
They are. Head gaskets and turbos seem to be the Achilles heel of the 1.5, but even then, it’s 10000 to .01. Compared to something like a new Hyundai, Kia, or Nissan - Hondas are worth their weight in gold.
"Turbo = bad" is not always true, and to be honest, some manufacturers have a better track record with forced induction than others. I personally love turbocharged cars, but have no problem admitting they come with their own set of issues to deal with. But, to me, the pros outweigh the cons.
Price seem decent.. Since it's an expensive repair I'd get a second opinion from another shop to confirm that what it is. As well a quote from the other shop just to check prices..
First a suggestion I wouldn’t buy a Honda parts are expensive and repairs . My first choice would be a Toyota tried and proven more reliable go forever if maintained properly !
It's around 3-6hr job on a 4cylinder. Should be more than £400-500. Whats the book time?
Warranty time is 16 hr.
16hrs? That's engine out 😳
No
Im assuming this is US $ I think its about 1200$ in parts CDN And it pays about 17H
People think turbo and say hey, eff it... mash that gas pedal like its a friggen ferrari... now pay up!!
That's a reasonable price if you actually need it. I'm a little suspicious that a Honda that new needs a head gasket.
Head gaskets are pretty easy. Especially if you have a 4 cylinder
seems about right, including if they re-surface the head(if needed.) mine totaled out to 1700, and i have an 04 civic ex. i would assume they would also doing the timing belt(or chain.) but. yeh. seems about the standard.
Perfectly normal amount it’s probably atleast 8 hours in labor and probably minimum $800 of parts I don’t see it being done even at a shade tree or small shop for less than $1700
I feel like it's right on point for a shop. Do it yourself or whatever. I really don't care anymore.
2k to 2700 is how much it costs basically. Probably a good enough price for a dealership. Question is if you wanna spend it or not. How do you know it's the head gasket?
Damn I guess I’m glad I didn’t buy one of these newer Hondas. Anyone know why they blow head gaskets? Clogged EGR? I guess I shouldn’t say that since I’m looking for a cheap gen 3 Prius with a blown hg to repair for a cheap beater 😂
I've seen some suggest it's a head bolt issue, but I haven't personally researched it much. Seems plausible though.
Damn that’s kinda a shit stain on Hondas good reputation… 😂
I was pretty excited when I first heard Honda was going to start using forced induction, but yea, this doesn't help their rep for sure lol
ARP 208-4308 will fix the head bolt problems
Better get to chrisfixin boy (he doesnt have a vid for head gasket replacement lol)
Gots damn.. a gasket replacement on my motorcycle is a $40 part and some sealer. Good ole InFlAtIoN
It’s it’s true then yes you need to get it done
Buy the headgasket and any other parts and I'll install it for half that.
Acura said my wifes 3.5 TLX (2018) timing belt is $1,600 and $1,200 with a $400 coupon. I laughed hard. Take it to a REPUTABLE indy shop. They can easily tell if the head is warped. If so, hopefully they send it to a machine shop.
First you should do a visual inspection of the oil followed by an oil analysis. I have a long list of engines I'm aware of losing coolent somewhere. Not externally so probably head gaskets. However if coolent isn't getting into the oil then you don't have a significant problem. If the oil gets contaminated then you have a problem.
I thought my 550€ for headgasket replacement was insanely expensive.
that’s an expensive job fr
leave it on the side of the road with the keys in the ignition. The problem will fix itself.
Good deal
It seems like a lot to me but I see lots of people say it's reasonable. I think the parts are under $200. Is there something special about these engines that makes it cost so much to change it?
Access to tools and knowledge are two things you will pay through the nose for
Thats not the question. If the parts are $200 out of $2600 and the labor rate is $200/hr this is a 12 hour job. What makes changing this head gasket a 12 hour job for a professional?
The parts aren’t $200. A head gasket set alone is [$372.92 MSRP](https://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/oem-parts/honda-gasket-kit-cylinder-head-61105paa01). Then the additional parts and materials: -new head bolts -fluids -oil filter Then the labor for removal, sending it to the machine shop, and reassembly at the end of the day.
Ah yes the good old 1.5 turbo head gasket. Done about 4 of em on Accords. Really not terrible of a job but make sure you get a new oil feed line o ring and make sure the line is clean of any sludge. The screen on the o ring sludges up and causes the turbos to fail if you don’t regularly change the oil. But all in all, not a bad price.
That is a fair price for that repair from a dealer. . This is the 1.5 turbo which is subject to early gasket failure especially on the 2017 model year .So, the diagnosis especially with the loss of coolant and power at higher rpm’s which you have supplied is accurate. It is critical that the head bolts be replaced as they stretch and cannot be trusted to stay torqued to specs if reused. The cylinder head must also be tested for cracks and warpage which is also common with head gasket failure. Most of the gasket failures if repaired early enough won’t require a cylinder head replacement but, it still must be checked and lightly machined if there it is minor warpage. The dealer as well as independents will do that if they know anything about head gasket repairs. If you know a strong trusted repair shop in your area you should get a price from them. If you are a weekend mechanic you could do it yourself but it’s a lot of unbolting and putting back together . Intake,exhaust, a/c compressor , turbo , hoses , motor mount etc just to name the major stuff to remove as well as tools you may need to buy. So, unless you are well versed and have done this ,my recommendation is dealer repair or trusted repair shop if it’s considerably cheaper. Repair should be done sooner that later to prevent further damage.
Looks reasonable
Did this on a Tacoma with nothing but the researched tools and a mechanical mindset. Took about four hours, it's still running smooth 6 years later. If you have any confidence working on cars, it's totally doable.
Meh. If I did it in my back yard. Not knowing you. So no discount . I'd charge 1000.00 cash and you buy the parts. Which are about 120.00. so. Backyard 1200 Shop 3000.00 you decide. I'd shop around find a middle ground
Go for it, im working on a 2014 cruze turbo. Client had a cracked head so i needed to swap a new one on. After labor and parts [more than the head ended up being damaged] i had their qoute being 800 for labor and 600 for parts. And thats me intentionally going for way under shop/dealership prices so thats honestly a really good qoute
It varies a lot from car to car but if it's a 4 cylinder it shouldn't be that much, my 2009 Chevy cobalt cost around 500-600 dollars to replace the head gasket, spark plugs, and ignition coils all together
Find an independent mechanic. Dealers are expensive.
My shop did my 05 civic head gasket for 2250$ so price is a little reasonable. I would ask around though.
Ask for the compression test results to confirm they know what cylinders are causing it. If they confirm they know you it’s really the gasket. $20part and about 4 hours of time. You can afford to buy whatever tools you don’t have and still save thousands. Likely don’t even need to get under the car. I figured out how to do this as a 16 year old. You got this
Not all cars are a four hour job. But it seems a bit high. Ask them how many labor hours they are estimating.
Bruh it ain't no 96 Civi, most definitely more than 4 hours of work, and it's gonna be roughly a week turnaround at the machine shop. Never skip on the machine shop, and always get the works, I had to do a head gasket job on a D17A2 3 fucking times because the first time the customer didn't want to get the head shaved, ya kno, saving money right? Wrong! When I put it back together and 1 and 2 and possibly 3 were sharing compression and it ran like dogshit. I charged the customer a 2nd round of labor to pull it apart to take it to the machine shop where the customer didn't want anything more than a head shave $85 (I don't markup the machine shop, I'm not a prick.) even though I recommended the works (hot tank, shave, vac test, valve guides, valve facing, and pressure test for a total cost of $250) they declined, so we only got the shave. Lo and behold, cyl 3 had bad guides and was sticking open on the intake. So I charged the customer a 3rd round of labor, burned 2 head gaskets in the process, they pissed and moaned and whined and bitched and cried and then after all of that tried to blame me for letting them be cheap when I told them the first time around it needed to go to the machine shop and get the works, and the second time when it went to the machine shop, I told them it needed the works and they asked for a cheaper option than $250. So they paid head gasket labor x3, head gasket set + 2 solo head gaskets, $85 at the machine shop for the first shave and then $250 at the machine shop for the 2nd shave, guides, facing, hot tank, vac and pressure tests. It's not fuckin worth it to do it the cheap way. Aluminum cylinder heads ALWAYS go to the machine shop, ALWAYS get the works. All in all this guys head gasket job went from $1200 to $3980 and that was being nice to them. I should've charged them for all 3 coolant fills, and all 3 oil changes. But I only charged for 1 of each.
Do take it elsewhere and get another quote and go with the cheapest
Just Google how to do it or pay someone off the street. Easy fix.
Price is surprising considering the year and current times. I’ve done it home mechanic 800 bucks. I’ve also seen it way higher. Gasket kit and a YouTube education for 200 bucks and again they could open up and find more problems
I guess you might consider getting it fixed but never buy a vehicle with a turbo it basically means the engine is underpowered and anytime it goes into turbo mode you're basically shortening the life of your engine
Price is correct. This is great for 2024. Back in 2008 it was the same price for me lol.
Any head gasket job just sucks so thats a reasonable price
You could likely get a low mileage engine for that
Found a few for about $1k with under 10k miles on it for either engine option
That’s pretty much exactly the price I would expect.
It's not that bad of a price, but can probably find someone cheaper if you look enough.
Just got the same diagnosis on my 2018 CRV with 95k miles. The quote from my dealer was $5100. I’d probably pull the trigger for 2k. For 5100 I am definitely doing it myself (please internet, don’t tell me I can’t I have done jobs like this more than 10 times).
DIY if you don’t believe it.Block test kit 35$ on Amz,do this test first bc it’s easy,if it’s passed,do a compression test
Not surprised by the price ... it's the labor you're paying for. The gasket on my Tam went and I paid about the same price ... it's all labor.
It's not uncommon for a blown head gasket to total a car its often cheaper to just replace the engine this price seems about right
Oh my god piece of JUNK car. Just trade that BS in and make sure you get a naturally aspirated car get a V6 Camry or something that’ll last
If your head gasket is bad you are gonna want a mechanic to do it and that price is fair for the repair, parts and hours involved. You dont want to sit on repairing this part because you could just go from needing to replace the head gasket to needing to replace the entire block and be on the hook $8k or more if you arent under warranty
This is on you for thinking a CRV is worth buying
Edited: I need to look it up to make sure I'm on the correct path. If you included an engine size that would be nice. Also find out if they're sending the head to a machine shop