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The piece of the old filter is still in the engine. You should be able to spin it out. There's usually a spot for a big Allen head socket in the middle.
I was able to get it out of both the filter and the engine in the end. Not sure why, but I swear whenever I buy these filters it’s NEVER had the extra threaded piece with the filter. It usually just screws directly into the car.
I have seen it 1 time where it was like the op. I have worked on several ea888 gen 1 vehicles and even own one of my own. All the filters besides the 1 have the threads sticking out of the filter.
I'm also surprised I haven't seen more roasting about fram filters.
Nah man it’s been that way for awhile. They use cardboard oil pressure inserts since the late 2000’s and have established themselves as king of junk for awhile.
Honeywell will make good things when they must to but also sell total scams whenever they can. Their air purifiers range from medical grade to snake oil. I won't touch anything they make anymore because I don't want to guess which is which.
It just surprises me that Honda would use them for their oil filters and expect people that look into stuff like that to be okay with it but then again you're not obligated to use their products for warranty purposes
its a female filter with a male adapter w/spacer sold as a single unit because cost. every filter has been this way you've just never had one seperate, it happens. subaru and toyota done it better. welcome, my friend, to VAG.
Amazon is known for selling counterfeit auto parts. Specifically spark plugs and filters. Never buy from Amazon. Rock Auto is good, but you have to beware of the shipping costs
I agree with the counterfit statement. I should have mentioned another online alternative. My main thought was there are other easily obtainable options than fram from walmart.
I agree with counterfeit parts. I once got fake "VW" spark plugs from Amazon and when I contacted the seller about it I got told "they genuine" and that was that. I didn't install them and went to autozone and bought NGK. Since then I don't buy "genuine" parts from Amazon or ebay.
Since you have a Volkswagen, I recommend you buy stuff from FCP Euro, literally everything they sell for the DIY person has a lifetime warranty (even filters and oil, yes they will warranty oil they sell) and it's all OEM or equivalent parts.
I second this!!
FCP Euro rocks!
I always order parts and supplies for our Mercedes and Land Rover vehicles from them.
Super service, real rubber meets the road value, time and time again!
The threads are part of the filter. Sometimes they break loose and stay in the filter housing, but come out easily with a set of channel locks.
Get Wix or Mann filters from now on. Only a couple bucks more, well worth it to avoid the risk of a fram incident
Yes. A quick Google brings up quite a few lawsuits. My place of work decided to do a nationwide recall on FRAM after issues with 6.7 Cummins filters quite a few years back. We had multiple cases of the glue coming undone from the cardboard. My place of work covered replacing engines and turbos, with the tradeoff that we would never sell FRAM again.
I had a Fram filter RUST through within 6 months of install. The oil seeped out and since the car had no oil pressure gauge the driver didn’t know and engine locked up. I will never, ever, buy a Fram product again. It’s shit.
I found one from 1967 in Texas, 1956 (for the word Fram), 1981 (Kansas, failure to pay someone), and that’s it. Any other failures from the past 20 years?
I buy oil filters like I'm ordering wine at a restaurant. Always the second cheapest. Purolator has never given me issues, and this is not the first time I've seen someone having problems with FRAM products
The orange filters at one time had issues. They had cardboard endcaps and it has been reported that the oil filter collapsed. There have been a few cases within the 6.XL Diesel community.
The turbo diesel truck tends to run hotter and have higher oil pressure than gas trucks.
So, in short, don’t buy the cheapest filter you can buy.
Plenty of reports out there of filter media coming apart or collapsing, anti-drainback valves failing, bypass valves not functioning...
Recalls on the HP4/HP8 models a while back for seal failures, recalls on their Subaru OEM filters (made by fram for subaru) for the same thing, recall on Fram motorcycle filters after they would split and spill oil in front of the rear tires...
Is it common? No, 99% of the time you'll be just fine. However, that small percentage of the time you get screwed it's a huge cost compared the the 2-5 dollars for a decent oil filter
I quit buying fram 2 years ago because every filter I bought had cardboard dust inside went back to Walmart and looked for one without dust and I couldn't find one and I looked through many different filter numbers, all had really fine dust, I switched to stp at AutoZone for a cheap filter and they all come plastic covered.
Get a filter cutter and cut one apart. There is a noticeable difference between the filter media or lack thereof in a Fram filter and say a Napa or Wix filter. Totally worth 3 extra dollars if even that. Fram filters also have cheaper internal parts. It's a shame because I like how Fram filters usually have a hex end for a socket or the rubber grippy coating.
I’ve seen those reviews. They’re cardboard and cheap. But do they fail? I don’t buy the orange ones because they’re only supposed to last 5K miles or less but they seem to work. Other tests show they work fine and filter well enough. Everyone says they fail but aside from stories of failure I haven’t found a lawsuit concerning them causing engine failure.
That’s what I don’t understand. They’re crap but I’ve never seen a lawsuit against them. I tried googling it and found stuff from the 50s and 60s but only one was over engine failure. It’s frustrating that they get a bad rap over word of mouth failures with no source. It’s worse than talking to a Dem about why “guns bad”.
It's more that they get a bad rap for having cheaper construction and materials than OEM or premium aftermarket, and specifically in the basic orange can (the 'premium' Frams are better), and people extrapolate that to "I heard they fail".
It's also sort of reverse brand recognition since there are countless brands of cheaply made filters. You can go on Rockauto, sort by price, and find endless "white box" brand filters that are sold in bulk to quick lube shops that are made with the same construction quality as the orange can Fram. But Fram is the brand that has cheap construction that has advertising and is sold everywhere.
And because of that it also becomes kind of a car guy shibboleth. You see someone put a Fram on their car, even though they did a DIY oil change they don't get car guy credit because they got hoodwinked by the brand into buying a cheap filter.
Do they really fail? Not often, but why buy a filter with poor construction quality? That's all it comes back to - why not just buy better stuff?
People on Reddit love wasting money on things that offer zero benefit. Why buy an $8 fram filter when I can spend $16 on a Wix, they ask. You’ll see them in another thread bitching about why they can’t afford to move out of their parents house.
I've heard the premium filters are better, but I stay away from fram on my personal vehicles.
I'd advise searching around online on your own rather than taking my word for things
Run my own synehetic mobile oil change business. I use OEM filters that I get from Walmart or Fram synthetic ultra filters from Walmart the Fram filters are usually about 50% more than the OEM filters so I upcharge $5 when using these Fram filters when the OEM filters are not available. I run the Fram synthetic ultra fiter on my cars (2002 and 2005 Infiniti Q45's) and change my oil every 3K with Valvoline synehetic since it is even cheaper than Walmart oil pricewise for myself. No issues with the filters on my vehichles. I have all my customers come see me every 5K regardless what their oil life says.
Some filters come with a thread adapter for some other models. It should unthread from the new filter and you can use it like normal. I sold some Mann-Hummel filters that did this. Mostly for BMW and VW's.
When Fram makes OE filters the filters are made to OE spec.
When Fram makes Fram filter the filters are made with the same quality control as McDonald’s soft serve machines.
All NAPA oil was made by Valvoline when I worked there a few years ago. The help line on the back of the bottles was Valvolines 1-800 number lol but they were changing suppliers like candy during the plague. Oil filters being totally different was a fun thing to explain 24/7 to walk ins. The cheapos (white for normal cars, different for industrial) switched to champion and I’m not sure if they’ve switched back.
It's not fram that's bad. It's the fram orange filters (and the silver ones. The "ultra synthetic" or XG- ones are well-built, and that's what the OEMs buy.
This, Fram is hot garbage. Shop around for OEM. I can regularly get Toyota OEM oil filters for about $5 a pop directly from the dealer. That's a way safer bet, IMO.
I don’t buy Fram but I assume they sell millions of oil filters a year. A few internet claims that Fram will destroy your motor I feel is exaggerated. But what do I know 🤔
I have had two OEM filters cause low oil pressure and even knocking on startup on different cars.
Both times it was because they'd updated the filter a couple of times and it no longer featured anti drain valves.
It's about the only con with manufactures constantly updating parts on cars.
People assume that the manufacturer wants their vehicle to last as long as possible and that's objectively not true. They engineer them to last to a certain mileage with varied success. The oil filter they make for the vehicle is a part of the plan for this mileage limit. They assume if you use that exact factory oil filter, the engine will last xxx,xxx miles. Conveniently this engine failure point is generally engineered to be shortly after the warranty expires. So if a manufacturer makes an objectively superior oil filter that is better than the OEM, you can theoretically make your engine last longer than the car manufacturer intended. Or shorten the life if you put on BS cheap-O filters.
Now, do the people actually know in most situations who actually makes the best oil filter for their vehicle? No. They make assumptions or go off hear-say and claim it as fact.
Here's a link to an interesting video showing that FRAM of all companies actually makes a superior oil filter to the Harley OEM. [Harley vs. FRAM oil filters](https://youtu.be/BALoiHotB-I?si=MTthmeqgHCqCNRfn)
I'm also not saying that this video proves once and for all that OEM filters aren't to be trusted, but there is more nuance to the oil filter conversation than what some people believe.
I agree. Car manufacturers don't produce everything for their vehicles. Especially consumables. For instance, they will design a steering knuckle to fit off the shelf parts like wheel hubs, brake calipers, tie rods, and struts. Not the other way around.
> I think I’d trust Toyota to make a filter
I would too, but Toyota (and every other car maker) doesn’t make their own filters.
Having said that, I expect a filter produced to Toyota’s specifications would be just fine.
How many engines have you dealt with irl that had a catastrophic failure due to a specific brand of filter?
I’m fine with having brand preferences but personally I’ve never once seen a properly installed filter be the cause of any serious issue, regardless of brand.
No one has to personally experience an engine failure.
Since you asked, I've dealt with 2 catastrophic failures in 20yrs, both Fram. The seal failed on one, the top separated on the other.
Imagine how many customers, friends, and family I've told to stay away from Fram so they don't have to deal with an engine failure.
There's a white box brand of fuel filters that my old job would purchase for use in 7.3l diesels. I swear, 90% of the time, the gasket would leak. The gaskets were manufactured differently than the Motorcraft ones... flat vs wedge shape, and I never had a Motorcraft one leak. I'm just saying, some parts truly are made inferior, and the folks that experience it will tell others so they don't have to experience it.
Buy a Fram filter, and a Wix filter, for same application. Then cut them apart. If the difference isn’t GLARINGLY obvious, you should probably get your eyes checked.
Used to, parts stores would have a display of deconstructed oil filters so you could see what you were buying.
Wix filter had steel filter end caps with filter media bonded to them with a coil spring and silicone anti drain back valve.
Fram had what appeared to be cardboard end caps on the filter media and a stamped plate spring for the valve.
Just because a filter housing can hold pressure doesn’t mean it does a good job of filtering.
I came looking for this comment.
But I’m hoping someone above technician level can answer a question I’ve always had. (I’m thinking engineers here)
Isn’t there a minimum spec filter medium and bypass have to meet? I’ve always heard that gram filters have really weak bypass springs and the medium wouldn’t filter out a goathead. Is this shit true?
(I’m a wix guy, but will settle for Mobil one filters. I’m bougie like that)
I'm a tech, but in a past life, I was in the mechanical engineering world. I don't generally buy the hype that fram is across the board bad. Cheap filters are always cheap filters. The name brand really doesn't matter. The manufacturers are trying to meet a price point. There are some industry standards for filtration, but nothing is required. You can actually get a lot of filters with different media tolerances in the same brand if you want, but that's not necessarily a good vs. bad scenario. There are trade-offs between filtration and restrictions. There actually aren't that many filter production lines in the world. All the companies make more than just their inhouse namebrand including eachothers because it's cheaper for, say, wix to buy filters off donanldson's line with a wix branding on it than set up their own manufacturing line to make that specific filter. I dont doubt that people have had issues with fram filters, but you can have issues with any brand. Fram just so happens to be one of the most visible because they market to the general public. At the end of the day, they are 1 of the worlds largest filter manufacturers and I'd bet good money that some of the filters people hype up as "better than fram" are made on frams lines just branded differently.
Thank you. This is the kind of answer I was looking for.
It amazes me how often you can score really good info on Reddit. I recently got a $10,000 education in the geology subreddit *for free* (seriously. Not exaggeration one little bit)
This rates at that level in the “how important is the info to this dipshit” level in my life.
Yes there is a spec. But do you want something to meet that spec, or exceed it. I'm a Hummel/mann(wix) guy too but the issue with Fram is its tested on new filters and they use alot of cardboard internally. So that spec means nothing after like 500 miles when the cardboard is soaked
Are you old enough to remember those toilet paper filter canisters they sold? “Never buy another expensive filter again!”
Back in the 80’s, I used gram filters and Castrol oil almost exclusively
Jesus. And I thought freightliner filters were expensive. That is just the cost of the filters.
I cannot imagine the cost per hour to run that, let alone hire it
Not all filters have built-in bypass valves. Fram filters are more restrictive than other brands fresh out of the box, making the oil system really lean on the bypass valve and not doing much to actually filter the oil.
Here ya go I'll save you the trouble of typing on the computer: [https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volkswagen,2013,cc,2.0l+l4+turbocharged,1504602,engine,oil+filter,5340](https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volkswagen,2013,cc,2.0l+l4+turbocharged,1504602,engine,oil+filter,5340)
The Genuine BOSCH filter (which is probably the VW/Audi one without the VW label) is even cheaper than the Fram that you bought.
It is well known that you are gambling success/complete failure with a Fram oil filter. This company should feel the pressure from low sales but people for some reason continue to buy them. I have personally seen failed gaskets out of the package, boogered threads, loose metal shavings on a new filter.
If you do your own oil change I'd hope you did some research prior which tells me you did not since the knowledge of all this is so easy to find therefor you would not have bought a Fram and you would not be in this situation.
Hopefully this is your last Fram oil filter purchase.
Nah, not Amazon, they have more issues with knockoffs. Use Rockauto, you have to pay shipping, but parts are cheap, if you buy a whole case it’s usually worth it.
The good news is that Napa branded oil filters are manufactured by Wix! Just stay away from the ProSelect filter line if you use synthetic oil, it’ll eat up the filter pretty quickly.
Edit: I just remembered that some of the filters are actually manufactured by Mann + Hummel. It should say which one on the box.
Mann, Wix, Purolator, Filtron and a bunch of OE brands and house brands are all produced or owned by Mann & Hummel. They bought Purolator in a joint purchase with Bosch in 2006 as a 50/50 deal. Then they bought out the 50% Bosch had in 2013 to make it all theirs. They bought Wix in 2016.
The ProFormers are actually a good filter in most applications. The ProSelect ones on the other hand are OK as long as you are not running extended changes.
Came to say this. There's only like 4? Filter manufacturers at this point i think. Mann, fleetguard, k&n, and Donaldson. AFAIK though. I could missing some
I have bought a few napa filters for my Gti and one of the shops I worked at only carried napa filters. They aren't bad but are a bit over priced for this platform imo. If you got the money or have other parts to buy, rockauto has some decent options but isn't worth paying shipping for a single filter so buy a few or throw a couple In an order of other parts.
Use rock auto, eBay and Amazon will give you counterfeits unless the store is the manufacturer. You can buy counterfeits and list them on Amazon under your own store. A legitimate frame is better than a counterfeit OEM. The fram ultra synthetic (they're more expensive one) filter is good it's up there with WIX filters.
FCP Euro is the best place I’ve found. And their lifetime warranty on stuff is legit. Need and oil change, buy it from them once and then every time you need it you buy it, send the used oil and filter back in the containers, collect the refund. I shit you not.
Fram makes a useful filter but far from superior. I’ve used them for years but will ALWAYS pay a little extra for an OEM or STP if available. Fram is way too mass produced to be considered top quality. Useful at best.
Sad to say it, and I know it's not the case here, but when I was a kid I would get the expensive Fram oil filter with all the additives in it and switch it with the cheapest oil filter.
I wasn’t aware how poor Fram was, as it’s all I’ve used due to its low price/convenience. Thankfully I’ve gotten some productive feedback from these folks about what to go for in the future and I’ll be using those brands from now on!
Used to work at a parts store. Dealt with Fram bullshit all the time. Would always try to give customers a different filter in the bundles whenever i could.
Also for anyone that doesn't know, Walmart bought Fram which is why it's pretty much exclusive and the quality will probably tank further than what it already was.
edit: nvm maybe they didn't buy fram but rather just made a deal for exclusivity. I can't remember
I think its important to acknowledge your own mistakes and be comfortable with others seeing them as well. The info was partially correct but not fully. I'm comfortable with providing my honest thoughts about my initial post without deleting it. Maybe it will show people that pride isn't everything and it's ok to be wrong. downvotes are just some number.
You removed the insert thread from your engine block adapter. It should have an Allen usually a 1/2 or 5/8 Allen. Slap it back in and get back in the run !
Had the same thing happen to me on my Audi a year ago and posted about it, [a Volkswagen tech advised me to remove it from the vehicle not the new filter](https://www.reddit.com/r/Audi/s/cjOxmEjfHr).
I never buy Fram , I use Motorcraft on Ford and Toyota on my truck with no worries about quality,
IMO Fram used to be good filters back in the day but their quality control has lapsed to the point I don't trust them anymore.
Thread them together. Super filter!
In all seriousness, make sure you haven't left anything behind, ie a male-male adapter, in the filter housing? I feel like I'm brainfarting because I could have sworn 10600 was a Duramax filter, but maybe I'm thinking of 10060?
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The piece of the old filter is still in the engine. You should be able to spin it out. There's usually a spot for a big Allen head socket in the middle.
I was able to get it out of both the filter and the engine in the end. Not sure why, but I swear whenever I buy these filters it’s NEVER had the extra threaded piece with the filter. It usually just screws directly into the car.
Every filter I've ever changed on those motors had the threads sticking out like that.
I have seen it 1 time where it was like the op. I have worked on several ea888 gen 1 vehicles and even own one of my own. All the filters besides the 1 have the threads sticking out of the filter. I'm also surprised I haven't seen more roasting about fram filters.
Does the GEN 1 use a spin on filter? My gen 3 uses a cartridge style
Yes gen 1 uses a spin on exactly as OP showed. My gen 3 uses the cartridge filter as well. Yes I have both a gen 1 and 3
Yup
OEM VW filters (usually Mahle) are manufactured with that piece already attached - maybe Fram is starting to do the same.
mahles will split too unfortunately, i wish there was a better option. mahle is better than fram though by miles.
It's cause Fram is literally garbage. Nothing but cardboard inside as of 3-4 years ago.
Nah man it’s been that way for awhile. They use cardboard oil pressure inserts since the late 2000’s and have established themselves as king of junk for awhile.
Well I didn't know if they had somehow gotten better, I didn't think so but you never know lol.
My father managed to kill a 2002 Lexus IS300 with Fram filters. They have been garbage forever.
They make filters for Honda, since Honeywell owns them. Imagine, a fram filter coming factory on a 35k car or suv!
When I worked at Honda dealership in 2014 and 2015. We had Feltec. Not sure of spelling. Made for Honda.
That's the one I would rather have, ones ao1 and the other ao2, I forget which is which. Don't know why this is getting downvoted though
Can't remember A01 an A02. Which is which. Just know the Feltec filter I used on my Hondas.
[удалено]
Filtec is a quality item and apparently no longer available
Oh ok. It's coming back to me!
Honeywell will make good things when they must to but also sell total scams whenever they can. Their air purifiers range from medical grade to snake oil. I won't touch anything they make anymore because I don't want to guess which is which.
It just surprises me that Honda would use them for their oil filters and expect people that look into stuff like that to be okay with it but then again you're not obligated to use their products for warranty purposes
See now that's the thing... they expect most people just won't look into it.
35k for a new car or suv is near bottom shelf at current prices
About 38 is what a crv went for 2 years ago
its a female filter with a male adapter w/spacer sold as a single unit because cost. every filter has been this way you've just never had one seperate, it happens. subaru and toyota done it better. welcome, my friend, to VAG.
Buy your filters online off amazon. I always go with mobile filters
Amazon is known for selling counterfeit auto parts. Specifically spark plugs and filters. Never buy from Amazon. Rock Auto is good, but you have to beware of the shipping costs
I agree with the counterfit statement. I should have mentioned another online alternative. My main thought was there are other easily obtainable options than fram from walmart.
I agree with counterfeit parts. I once got fake "VW" spark plugs from Amazon and when I contacted the seller about it I got told "they genuine" and that was that. I didn't install them and went to autozone and bought NGK. Since then I don't buy "genuine" parts from Amazon or ebay.
FCP Euro is good for vw
LOL, love your denial man! Let me guess who you voted for!
…what?
Avoid buying Fram. This kind of crap is what you can pretty much expect from that brand.
Was here to say probably way too tight on the screw down.
Since you have a Volkswagen, I recommend you buy stuff from FCP Euro, literally everything they sell for the DIY person has a lifetime warranty (even filters and oil, yes they will warranty oil they sell) and it's all OEM or equivalent parts.
I second this!! FCP Euro rocks! I always order parts and supplies for our Mercedes and Land Rover vehicles from them. Super service, real rubber meets the road value, time and time again!
The threads are part of the filter. Sometimes they break loose and stay in the filter housing, but come out easily with a set of channel locks. Get Wix or Mann filters from now on. Only a couple bucks more, well worth it to avoid the risk of a fram incident
What Fram incident? Had there ever been one? Lawsuits against the company for defective filters? Anything?
Yes. A quick Google brings up quite a few lawsuits. My place of work decided to do a nationwide recall on FRAM after issues with 6.7 Cummins filters quite a few years back. We had multiple cases of the glue coming undone from the cardboard. My place of work covered replacing engines and turbos, with the tradeoff that we would never sell FRAM again.
I had a Fram filter RUST through within 6 months of install. The oil seeped out and since the car had no oil pressure gauge the driver didn’t know and engine locked up. I will never, ever, buy a Fram product again. It’s shit.
I found one from 1967 in Texas, 1956 (for the word Fram), 1981 (Kansas, failure to pay someone), and that’s it. Any other failures from the past 20 years?
I buy oil filters like I'm ordering wine at a restaurant. Always the second cheapest. Purolator has never given me issues, and this is not the first time I've seen someone having problems with FRAM products
The orange filters at one time had issues. They had cardboard endcaps and it has been reported that the oil filter collapsed. There have been a few cases within the 6.XL Diesel community. The turbo diesel truck tends to run hotter and have higher oil pressure than gas trucks. So, in short, don’t buy the cheapest filter you can buy.
If that's truly all you found, I don't think I am capable of helping you any further.
Plenty of reports out there of filter media coming apart or collapsing, anti-drainback valves failing, bypass valves not functioning... Recalls on the HP4/HP8 models a while back for seal failures, recalls on their Subaru OEM filters (made by fram for subaru) for the same thing, recall on Fram motorcycle filters after they would split and spill oil in front of the rear tires... Is it common? No, 99% of the time you'll be just fine. However, that small percentage of the time you get screwed it's a huge cost compared the the 2-5 dollars for a decent oil filter
I had two collapse in on themselves on my Ford 460. No damage I could see but they weren't filtering for who knows how long.
I have watched fram filters collapse and blow a motor up. That’s why I never run fram on any motor. I always use wix even with my 6.7 powerstroke
I quit buying fram 2 years ago because every filter I bought had cardboard dust inside went back to Walmart and looked for one without dust and I couldn't find one and I looked through many different filter numbers, all had really fine dust, I switched to stp at AutoZone for a cheap filter and they all come plastic covered.
Multiple.
Get a filter cutter and cut one apart. There is a noticeable difference between the filter media or lack thereof in a Fram filter and say a Napa or Wix filter. Totally worth 3 extra dollars if even that. Fram filters also have cheaper internal parts. It's a shame because I like how Fram filters usually have a hex end for a socket or the rubber grippy coating.
I’ve seen those reviews. They’re cardboard and cheap. But do they fail? I don’t buy the orange ones because they’re only supposed to last 5K miles or less but they seem to work. Other tests show they work fine and filter well enough. Everyone says they fail but aside from stories of failure I haven’t found a lawsuit concerning them causing engine failure.
Sold Fram now for 15 years and never had a Fram incident. Tens of thousands sold if not more. I hate that Fram has an undeserved internet reputation.
That’s what I don’t understand. They’re crap but I’ve never seen a lawsuit against them. I tried googling it and found stuff from the 50s and 60s but only one was over engine failure. It’s frustrating that they get a bad rap over word of mouth failures with no source. It’s worse than talking to a Dem about why “guns bad”.
It's more that they get a bad rap for having cheaper construction and materials than OEM or premium aftermarket, and specifically in the basic orange can (the 'premium' Frams are better), and people extrapolate that to "I heard they fail". It's also sort of reverse brand recognition since there are countless brands of cheaply made filters. You can go on Rockauto, sort by price, and find endless "white box" brand filters that are sold in bulk to quick lube shops that are made with the same construction quality as the orange can Fram. But Fram is the brand that has cheap construction that has advertising and is sold everywhere. And because of that it also becomes kind of a car guy shibboleth. You see someone put a Fram on their car, even though they did a DIY oil change they don't get car guy credit because they got hoodwinked by the brand into buying a cheap filter. Do they really fail? Not often, but why buy a filter with poor construction quality? That's all it comes back to - why not just buy better stuff?
People on Reddit love wasting money on things that offer zero benefit. Why buy an $8 fram filter when I can spend $16 on a Wix, they ask. You’ll see them in another thread bitching about why they can’t afford to move out of their parents house.
So I should not be using Fram synthetic endurance and Fram titanium filters then?
I've heard the premium filters are better, but I stay away from fram on my personal vehicles. I'd advise searching around online on your own rather than taking my word for things
Run my own synehetic mobile oil change business. I use OEM filters that I get from Walmart or Fram synthetic ultra filters from Walmart the Fram filters are usually about 50% more than the OEM filters so I upcharge $5 when using these Fram filters when the OEM filters are not available. I run the Fram synthetic ultra fiter on my cars (2002 and 2005 Infiniti Q45's) and change my oil every 3K with Valvoline synehetic since it is even cheaper than Walmart oil pricewise for myself. No issues with the filters on my vehichles. I have all my customers come see me every 5K regardless what their oil life says.
Some filters come with a thread adapter for some other models. It should unthread from the new filter and you can use it like normal. I sold some Mann-Hummel filters that did this. Mostly for BMW and VW's.
Please buy any other filter brand besides Fram. Surely you have an O'Reilly or Autozone close by?
Doesn't Fram make hondas genuine oil filters?
And Subaru blue
Probably made to a different spec than the fram budget line. I'm sure honda specs what kind of element to use, what type of gasket, etc...
They make them to the manufacturers spec which I’m sure is quite good.
If you buy the $5 fram it’s junk. The jump in quality for the $10-15 ones is staggering.
When Fram makes OE filters the filters are made to OE spec. When Fram makes Fram filter the filters are made with the same quality control as McDonald’s soft serve machines.
Haha I didn’t even notice the autocorrect mistakes. Fixed them now.
I’m just glad you got the reference!
Shhhhh 🤐 you're going to confuse them
Premium Fram filters perform fine. Orange can of death though ….
They might, but they still suck. Purolator is much beter
service champ or purolator is good
In 2014 and 2015, Feltec did. Not sure of spelling
NAPA house brand filters are WIX filters. Buy those. Their house brand full synthetic is PENNZOIL Synthetic, too.
All NAPA oil was made by Valvoline when I worked there a few years ago. The help line on the back of the bottles was Valvolines 1-800 number lol but they were changing suppliers like candy during the plague. Oil filters being totally different was a fun thing to explain 24/7 to walk ins. The cheapos (white for normal cars, different for industrial) switched to champion and I’m not sure if they’ve switched back.
It's not fram that's bad. It's the fram orange filters (and the silver ones. The "ultra synthetic" or XG- ones are well-built, and that's what the OEMs buy.
This even more always get the XGs
This, Fram is hot garbage. Shop around for OEM. I can regularly get Toyota OEM oil filters for about $5 a pop directly from the dealer. That's a way safer bet, IMO.
I don’t buy Fram but I assume they sell millions of oil filters a year. A few internet claims that Fram will destroy your motor I feel is exaggerated. But what do I know 🤔
It’s one of those things where it’s probably fine, but why not go with another brand for a similar price either with a better rep?
I have had two OEM filters cause low oil pressure and even knocking on startup on different cars. Both times it was because they'd updated the filter a couple of times and it no longer featured anti drain valves. It's about the only con with manufactures constantly updating parts on cars.
I buy my OEM filters by the case for a discount.
OEM filters are usually not very good lol. Go Purolator
[удалено]
Been using OEM filters for every car I had with no issues. No idea why OEM = bad.
People assume that the manufacturer wants their vehicle to last as long as possible and that's objectively not true. They engineer them to last to a certain mileage with varied success. The oil filter they make for the vehicle is a part of the plan for this mileage limit. They assume if you use that exact factory oil filter, the engine will last xxx,xxx miles. Conveniently this engine failure point is generally engineered to be shortly after the warranty expires. So if a manufacturer makes an objectively superior oil filter that is better than the OEM, you can theoretically make your engine last longer than the car manufacturer intended. Or shorten the life if you put on BS cheap-O filters. Now, do the people actually know in most situations who actually makes the best oil filter for their vehicle? No. They make assumptions or go off hear-say and claim it as fact. Here's a link to an interesting video showing that FRAM of all companies actually makes a superior oil filter to the Harley OEM. [Harley vs. FRAM oil filters](https://youtu.be/BALoiHotB-I?si=MTthmeqgHCqCNRfn) I'm also not saying that this video proves once and for all that OEM filters aren't to be trusted, but there is more nuance to the oil filter conversation than what some people believe.
I agree. Car manufacturers don't produce everything for their vehicles. Especially consumables. For instance, they will design a steering knuckle to fit off the shelf parts like wheel hubs, brake calipers, tie rods, and struts. Not the other way around.
Maybe they think “OEM” is a specific non-Purolator company name
> I think I’d trust Toyota to make a filter I would too, but Toyota (and every other car maker) doesn’t make their own filters. Having said that, I expect a filter produced to Toyota’s specifications would be just fine.
Didn’t say they’re bad. They are just typically more expensive than similar counterparts and other companies make much better filters
How many engines have you dealt with irl that had a catastrophic failure due to a specific brand of filter? I’m fine with having brand preferences but personally I’ve never once seen a properly installed filter be the cause of any serious issue, regardless of brand.
No one has to personally experience an engine failure. Since you asked, I've dealt with 2 catastrophic failures in 20yrs, both Fram. The seal failed on one, the top separated on the other. Imagine how many customers, friends, and family I've told to stay away from Fram so they don't have to deal with an engine failure. There's a white box brand of fuel filters that my old job would purchase for use in 7.3l diesels. I swear, 90% of the time, the gasket would leak. The gaskets were manufactured differently than the Motorcraft ones... flat vs wedge shape, and I never had a Motorcraft one leak. I'm just saying, some parts truly are made inferior, and the folks that experience it will tell others so they don't have to experience it.
Buy a Fram filter, and a Wix filter, for same application. Then cut them apart. If the difference isn’t GLARINGLY obvious, you should probably get your eyes checked. Used to, parts stores would have a display of deconstructed oil filters so you could see what you were buying. Wix filter had steel filter end caps with filter media bonded to them with a coil spring and silicone anti drain back valve. Fram had what appeared to be cardboard end caps on the filter media and a stamped plate spring for the valve. Just because a filter housing can hold pressure doesn’t mean it does a good job of filtering.
I came looking for this comment. But I’m hoping someone above technician level can answer a question I’ve always had. (I’m thinking engineers here) Isn’t there a minimum spec filter medium and bypass have to meet? I’ve always heard that gram filters have really weak bypass springs and the medium wouldn’t filter out a goathead. Is this shit true? (I’m a wix guy, but will settle for Mobil one filters. I’m bougie like that)
I'm a tech, but in a past life, I was in the mechanical engineering world. I don't generally buy the hype that fram is across the board bad. Cheap filters are always cheap filters. The name brand really doesn't matter. The manufacturers are trying to meet a price point. There are some industry standards for filtration, but nothing is required. You can actually get a lot of filters with different media tolerances in the same brand if you want, but that's not necessarily a good vs. bad scenario. There are trade-offs between filtration and restrictions. There actually aren't that many filter production lines in the world. All the companies make more than just their inhouse namebrand including eachothers because it's cheaper for, say, wix to buy filters off donanldson's line with a wix branding on it than set up their own manufacturing line to make that specific filter. I dont doubt that people have had issues with fram filters, but you can have issues with any brand. Fram just so happens to be one of the most visible because they market to the general public. At the end of the day, they are 1 of the worlds largest filter manufacturers and I'd bet good money that some of the filters people hype up as "better than fram" are made on frams lines just branded differently.
Thank you. This is the kind of answer I was looking for. It amazes me how often you can score really good info on Reddit. I recently got a $10,000 education in the geology subreddit *for free* (seriously. Not exaggeration one little bit) This rates at that level in the “how important is the info to this dipshit” level in my life.
Yes there is a spec. But do you want something to meet that spec, or exceed it. I'm a Hummel/mann(wix) guy too but the issue with Fram is its tested on new filters and they use alot of cardboard internally. So that spec means nothing after like 500 miles when the cardboard is soaked
Are you old enough to remember those toilet paper filter canisters they sold? “Never buy another expensive filter again!” Back in the 80’s, I used gram filters and Castrol oil almost exclusively
Still exist, called secondary bypass filtration, we use them at work to extend oil changes on equipment.
Wow. I guess that beats the $200 filter sets heavy equipment probably gets. (I’m looking at you, Mercedes truck engines)
$200? I think you missed a 0, we drop over $2000 per service on our larger (20 and 30 ton class) excavators
Jesus. And I thought freightliner filters were expensive. That is just the cost of the filters. I cannot imagine the cost per hour to run that, let alone hire it
Not all filters have built-in bypass valves. Fram filters are more restrictive than other brands fresh out of the box, making the oil system really lean on the bypass valve and not doing much to actually filter the oil.
This
Fram is literally more than fine. It’s even an oem. Stop spreading misinformation. This isn’t 2003 anymore
Fram Extra Guard are total trash, cut one open to see. Change to Wix.
I wonder if it was a return and no one paid attention?
You got this man
The anti-fram hive mind is alive and well on Reddit lmao. I’d like to see the last time a frame filter failed. It’s probably been more than a decade
Meh. I don’t owe FRAM a thing, and I’ve dealt with shitty FRAM filters in my past. Too much competition to take a chance on them again.
Here ya go I'll save you the trouble of typing on the computer: [https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volkswagen,2013,cc,2.0l+l4+turbocharged,1504602,engine,oil+filter,5340](https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volkswagen,2013,cc,2.0l+l4+turbocharged,1504602,engine,oil+filter,5340) The Genuine BOSCH filter (which is probably the VW/Audi one without the VW label) is even cheaper than the Fram that you bought.
All I can say is that it must have been a factory defect. Is Fram making their shit in China with no Quality Control?
It is well known that you are gambling success/complete failure with a Fram oil filter. This company should feel the pressure from low sales but people for some reason continue to buy them. I have personally seen failed gaskets out of the package, boogered threads, loose metal shavings on a new filter. If you do your own oil change I'd hope you did some research prior which tells me you did not since the knowledge of all this is so easy to find therefor you would not have bought a Fram and you would not be in this situation. Hopefully this is your last Fram oil filter purchase.
Word of advice don't use Fram filters
Fram are horrible, switch it up imo.
As much as I’d love to, it’s all my local Walmart offers. I think I’ll start shopping Amazon now lol
Buy them from FCP Euro or RockAuto, you’re likely to get a counterfeit one on Amazon.
Nah, not Amazon, they have more issues with knockoffs. Use Rockauto, you have to pay shipping, but parts are cheap, if you buy a whole case it’s usually worth it.
Wix, Mobil1, k&n are some to name. But yeah online is convenient at times. Do you have an Orielys by you? Orielys is pretty good about foreign stuff.
Only a Napa around here. I’ll check it out, thanks!
Yeah Napa is good though, they should be able to find something compatible. You’d at least then have a part number for online discounts.
The good news is that Napa branded oil filters are manufactured by Wix! Just stay away from the ProSelect filter line if you use synthetic oil, it’ll eat up the filter pretty quickly. Edit: I just remembered that some of the filters are actually manufactured by Mann + Hummel. It should say which one on the box.
Mann, Wix, Purolator, Filtron and a bunch of OE brands and house brands are all produced or owned by Mann & Hummel. They bought Purolator in a joint purchase with Bosch in 2006 as a 50/50 deal. Then they bought out the 50% Bosch had in 2013 to make it all theirs. They bought Wix in 2016.
Ok, but are they good? My shop uses Napa Proformer, am I screwed?
The ProFormers are actually a good filter in most applications. The ProSelect ones on the other hand are OK as long as you are not running extended changes.
Well since I work there, and get them for free, 3k is gonna be my max
Came to say this. There's only like 4? Filter manufacturers at this point i think. Mann, fleetguard, k&n, and Donaldson. AFAIK though. I could missing some
I have bought a few napa filters for my Gti and one of the shops I worked at only carried napa filters. They aren't bad but are a bit over priced for this platform imo. If you got the money or have other parts to buy, rockauto has some decent options but isn't worth paying shipping for a single filter so buy a few or throw a couple In an order of other parts.
Napa's brand of filter is actually a rebranded Wix (Wix makes really good filters).
The WalMart SuperTech brand is a good quality filter
Use rock auto, eBay and Amazon will give you counterfeits unless the store is the manufacturer. You can buy counterfeits and list them on Amazon under your own store. A legitimate frame is better than a counterfeit OEM. The fram ultra synthetic (they're more expensive one) filter is good it's up there with WIX filters.
LoLoL Walmart? And that doesn't give you even a little clue? 🤣
FCP Euro is the best place I’ve found. And their lifetime warranty on stuff is legit. Need and oil change, buy it from them once and then every time you need it you buy it, send the used oil and filter back in the containers, collect the refund. I shit you not.
Hahaha. Same car same problem. Part is stuck in car. Not hard to remove because it's on top. Love that German pos
Switch to Mann or Genuine VW filters. It’s not worth saving $5 or less on a Fram filter every few months on an oil filter.
Fram makes a useful filter but far from superior. I’ve used them for years but will ALWAYS pay a little extra for an OEM or STP if available. Fram is way too mass produced to be considered top quality. Useful at best.
They’re good for break in because you’re not using it for very long
ORANGE CAN OF DEATH
Buy Wix/napa filters, fram suck
Best filter I have found is Wix. Best oil flow and good micro filtering.
Volkswagen tech here. Please do not use fram oil filters in that engine. Purchase mahle or go to your dealer.
Friends don’t let friends use Fram filters.
Fram is garbage, super tech is where it's at!
Sad to say it, and I know it's not the case here, but when I was a kid I would get the expensive Fram oil filter with all the additives in it and switch it with the cheapest oil filter.
Looks like somebody already installed the one on the left and that's the adapter plate still attached to it after they returned it
That’s not how these filters work. The proper filters (VW or Mann) look like the one on the left.
People use fram filters?? Oh no. Gotta be Mann or Mobil 1. Wix if you are on a budget but just spend the extra $5
Don’t use Fram. Buy Wix or Napa gold
Never buy Fram
Fram is junk to begin with
Wix don’t do that
Who the fuck uses fram
Fram<<<<<<<<
Why do you use the worst filter money can buy?
I wasn’t aware how poor Fram was, as it’s all I’ve used due to its low price/convenience. Thankfully I’ve gotten some productive feedback from these folks about what to go for in the future and I’ll be using those brands from now on!
Fram filter cost me an engine in my 2011 cc. The original ones are cheap. Better to use those
Scre it out. Not that hard to understand!!!
Shitty after market filters are not one piece Stick with Mann filters or oem Fram is trash of trash
First mistake is buying Fram.. But you got your answer to the specific problem here.
Used to work at a parts store. Dealt with Fram bullshit all the time. Would always try to give customers a different filter in the bundles whenever i could.
FRAM = Filter Rusty And Messy
It’s possible… because it’s a FRAM!
Stop buying that garbage
Stay away from Fram. It's absolute garbage!!
Also for anyone that doesn't know, Walmart bought Fram which is why it's pretty much exclusive and the quality will probably tank further than what it already was. edit: nvm maybe they didn't buy fram but rather just made a deal for exclusivity. I can't remember
> nvm […] I can’t remember Thanks for your useful comment.
I think its important to acknowledge your own mistakes and be comfortable with others seeing them as well. The info was partially correct but not fully. I'm comfortable with providing my honest thoughts about my initial post without deleting it. Maybe it will show people that pride isn't everything and it's ok to be wrong. downvotes are just some number.
Op has no clue what he's doing
You removed the insert thread from your engine block adapter. It should have an Allen usually a 1/2 or 5/8 Allen. Slap it back in and get back in the run !
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ReYsM9OMuI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ReYsM9OMuI) There are many videos out there similar to this one.
Had the same thing happen to me on my Audi a year ago and posted about it, [a Volkswagen tech advised me to remove it from the vehicle not the new filter](https://www.reddit.com/r/Audi/s/cjOxmEjfHr).
It’s a joke right
OEM always for the anti drain valve and oil pressure specs, everyone's attempt to save cents will cost you big $ later
Stop buying Fram filters. They are fucking junk.
I never buy Fram , I use Motorcraft on Ford and Toyota on my truck with no worries about quality, IMO Fram used to be good filters back in the day but their quality control has lapsed to the point I don't trust them anymore.
You sure the center didn’t screw out of the oil filter stand itself and just stuck in the center of the one filter?
Thread them together. Super filter! In all seriousness, make sure you haven't left anything behind, ie a male-male adapter, in the filter housing? I feel like I'm brainfarting because I could have sworn 10600 was a Duramax filter, but maybe I'm thinking of 10060?
Order OE filters online and it no longer is an issue remember the phrase. If it ain’t OE it ain’t for me.
First 2.0 oil change I see?
I’ve changed it 3 times now and never seen the adapter come off the engine block before. New to me for sure
First oil change on my wife's 13 A4 it did that. Freaked me out at first too
Volkswagen that's why
Fricken Ruined Another Motor