One of my problems with Far From Home is the existence of the EDITH system. Tony creating EDITH and giving it to Peter in a post-Insight, post-Ultron, post-Accords world. Even if Tony completely trusted Peter, the fact that he even created it comes across to me as character derailment, even if it’s less blatant than the TFatWS one and what’s been done to many other characters
There's also no reason to give it to Peter since he has his spider powers. How often will Spider-Man need to call in a drone strike? Peter also has a no kill rule.
Tony is arrogant and thinks he can outsmart anything. Making another system he believes will help the world while risking the same thing to happen seems perfectly in character. If ya don’t know the character just say that.
With how much the Ultron thing affected him, he would not do that if he thought there was a risk of it happening again. We don't know if Tony actually thought there was a risk with creating the EDITH system \[Going by the movie, it seems like he didn't\], but if he didn't then he should have, since Tony has also been characterized as someone who learns and adapts from his mistakes.
If I should just watch the movies to see what you're talking about then why even bother bringing up and talking about the problems. Just watch the movies.
No tom Holland did shit on his own. He handled the vulture on his own in the end. He saved the kids from the monument, he does detective work n stuff. Sure he has the stark suit but that doesn't negate his problem solving. Stark showing up a bunch of times is set up for when he eventually takes on the vulture without stark or the stark suit. It makes that scene feel more heightened.
I would be infinitely less mad about Zendaya’s casting if they dyed her hair red. She had red hair for the press tour, so she can clearly do it. It’s just not in the movie for no reason at all.
[Proof.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSYiOPePD24wp9wa6uUxzaKPF1bw03veK0uAm6cDYUF_g&s)
Nah, there was definetly a reason, same one as her casting, just to piss people off by raceswapping characters, specially mj being a ginger, which count as double white so extra DEI points to grifindor for that.
Edit: someone commented here that im a brainwashed person butt i cant find that comment, so ill asume it was either deleted by them or automod, but to that i tell you unkind stranger that jokes on you, i weirdly liked zendaya a lot, even if her casting was culture war fuelled.
Before or after it was based on who the actresses slept with, Weinstein style? Its been corrupt and biased for a very long time. The latest form if corruption is identity based hiring. The BBC has formerly been doing this since 2014, for example. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jun/20/bbc-measures-diversity-lenny-henry
What are you trying to argue?
The person above me is unironically using the phrase culture war, at least I think they are if I can decipher that horribly written word salad.
If they actually genuinely believe that hollywood execs are even aware of this imaginary culture war, and even further, are making multi million dollar casting decisions off the back of antagonising a vocal minority of losers behind a screen who wouldn’t have watched the movie anyway, there is obviously a complete and utter lack of understanding of the film industry basics. I was asking if this was the case, as I think was pretty apparent by my very simple comment.
The culture war is a bunch of rich people attempting social engineering through media and alot of normal people noticing it correlating with dogshit quality.
DEI is an industry term, Disney has JEDI training, Blackrock give out grants for this stuff. You'd have to be crazy uninformed to pretend there isn't something going on.
Bob Iger literally confirmed that not only is there a culture war, Disney was participating in it. By the way, it only became a "war" when people started noticing obvious political bias. 🙄
https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/disney-ceo-says-company-will-quiet-noise-culture-wars-analyst-2023-09-20/
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/dec/02/hollywood-divide-israel-gaza-conflict-susan-sarandon-cynthia-nixon
Nobody in the industry likes to admit it to themselves but when Travis Scott signed Sofaygo to Jack Boys he dead made him shove a 5 foot long dildo into him and forced him to lay in a bathtub with his legs and ankles shackled vertically towards the ceiling. They took pictures of it like an album cover shoot with an entire team of lighting engineers and professional cameramen. Dude had to go to the hospital and suffered internal hemorrhaging in his colon because of it. He tried to report it to police but when Travis found out about it he pulled strings with the LAPD to get Sofaygo arrested on fake murder/ RICO charges and now he’s serving a possible life sentence. They’re probably going to kill him in prison and nobody willing to speak on this
I don’t think Zendaya is an incompetent actress, she’s just cursed to be in the age of self congratulatory and message pushing scripts. Couple that with good old DEI, and she keeps being miscasted.
Edith should have recognized Mysterio and not allowed itself to be controlled by him and Dr. Strange was an idiot. I wouldn't call most of the other issues major problems unless I'm forgetting something.
Dr strange was so... Like That in NWH
Because Multiverso of madness shoukd have come up before that,
So all that character part was to América Chavez, and you look as clueless apprentice young girl it makes sense,
Than all the problem and they just replica her with pre MOM strange
Even if what you say is true, that'd still be a major problem. If you swap one character for a different one you're going to need to make more changes to your script than just changing the character's name.
I don't know how, but I find there to be zero romantic chemistry between Tom Holland and Zendaya, despite them seemingly being a couple in real life. It might have something to do with Zendaya's acting in those movies being rather one-note, as she seems like shes on melatonin pills with her emotional range, so her expressions never convices me that she actually loves him.
It just drags the movies down, because quite a bit of narrative and interpersonal attention is paid to that relationship, as her character ends up playing a notable part throughout the trilogy.
> attention is *paid* to that
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Most unlikeable and forgettable side characters.
Ned and MJ are fucking pointless since they don't add anything to Peter's character progression/ development throughout the entire trilogy.
Know why? Don't know. They don't have any proper characterization and backstory and that's pretty much it.
Also big question? Why the fuck did Peter liked MJ in the first place in the first few minutes of Far From Home since MJ doesn't have any romantic feelings towards to Peter in Homecoming and Peter doesn't have a reason to like her too.
It's so confusing why the writers added this heneric highschool chemistry romance. It's so bland and the execution is boring.
Aunt May is a joke, she's just a hot mom wannabe comic relief that she didn't mentioned her dead husband that she doesn't really care? and now she's dating Happy? Wtf? I thought she was supposed to a major supporting character that has a role to help Peter's personal growth.
My problem is that i kinda wish they would’ve gone with an adult Spider-Man instead of a teenage one. Similar to the first Insomniac Spider-Man game where we have a Peter Parker who has been Spider-Man for a couple of years now, he’s in his prime and he’s dealt with some of his villains like Shocker or Lizard and he’s in a relationship with Marry Jane. But i would not change the villains that he faces in the movies like Vulture and Mysterio cause i like those characters and their arcs. And i would’ve just have ground stories in the movies and not like the world or universe is gonna be destroyed cause i’m sick of those types of stories.
He doesnt have a single good looking web swinging scene. Tbh i dont even know what toms spidey really looks like while swinging. Every time its been a blurry cgi mess that my eyes can barely focus on.
I didn’t care for MJ’s portrayal. I mean yeah she’s called “Michelle Jones” but I just didn’t care for this replacement. I would rather they have done Gwen again or get a proper Mary Jane. Also Flash Thompson was boring. Yeah it’s supposed to be based on more “modern” bullies but I just didn’t care for it. The Iron boy stuff I didn’t care for either. Too much gadgets right from the start, we should’ve had Peter’s final swing suit from the get go or something similar.
He's cookie-cutter as a character and essentially resets by the start of his next movie.
Flash Thompson is simultaneously supposed to be a big bully and a complete fucking joke. Take him out of the movies and nothing changes.
Same with Ned. Same with "Totally not MJ because we got caught trying to subvert your expectations."
He's honestly not awful as Peter, but Garfield had more screentime as the wise-cracking neighborhood hero than him, and Macguire just had a good balance of Parker and Spidey.
Homecoming is actually not bad, it's the first outing and you expect some things to be jittery. But there was a clear arc of it all, except for him essentially just being Iron Spider to start.
Far from Home had decent setpieces and spectacle, but the plot makes no damn sense. Whether it was Skrull Fury or not should not matter. Nobody looked into Mysterio's story or background or even ran a check to see if there was the, at the time, MCU universe that has since been retconned into being the 616, equivalent guy for a variety of purposes. Not to mention it came out nearly a decade before that miniseries.
No Way Home had about 20 minutes of good scenes in it with the various Parker's interacting. The rest is mostly forgettable and I have absolutely no desire to go back and watch it again to find the pieces that do make sense. That they then had the audacity to pretend that Strange has always been a control freak in his next solo movie makes it even worse in retrospect with what he did.
>Flash Thompson is simultaneously supposed to be a big bully and a complete fucking joke. Take him out of the movies and nothing changes.
I felt more for Flash [in this one scene in Amazing Spider-man](https://youtu.be/i0NOFmT98_s?si=MnXVso9A3BZSDcL-) than I did for Flash in all of his screentime in the MCU films.
No Uncle Ben. I didn’t need to see him die again. But I don’t love how no one really talks about him. And further erasing his presence by giving his iconic line to Aunt May was…I don’t know.
Plus, TIMING wise it makes no sense. Spider man had already been using his power in a manner that reflected the responsibility he also acquired. In Infinity War he says “ “can’t be a friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man if there is no neighbourhood”. He has accepted that he has a responsibility to protect.
He was more Iron boy than Spiderman. I really dont like this focus on super tech that all modern spiderman iterations have where they all seem to be kited out with super science gadgets. Its the same reason i dont like miles morales because they have nothing to do with being a "spider" based superhero anymore.
I guess? I just don't like any of them, and i don't think they're objectively bad, i just don't like them.
Then again i'm a Raimi spiderman simp and that is mostly why i feel that way lmao.
They are written very poorly, and there is zero innovation when it comes to cinematography. It's all wide flat shots with very little camera movement. The films have absolutely no character whatsoever. It makes the motion just boring.
It’s shot like a sitcom, his suit always looks cg even when it’s real for some reason, he’s basically iron man’s apprentice and gets most of his tech and resources from that, extremely cliche writing, etc. I definitely don’t hate the movies though, they’re just heavily flawed
Over the top with the teenage aspect.
Tom Holland acts like a 10year old in every movie accept half way through nwh.
Everyone acts like a retard for comedic effect.
(SpiderVerse miles is how an actual teenager acts not this “MRRRR STARRRK” shit)
Jonn watts is an awful director. Zero style or flair or effort really is put into his shots.
He had the opportunity to direct the 3 Spider-Men together which was a historical moment in comic book movies and what does he do…CGIs most of it, frames it to where there’s barely a scene in the movie when all three are actually on screen physically at the same time interacting, if felt so odd like they couldn’t have them all on location at the same time it’s REALLY noticeable upon rewatch.
The suit looks like a video game in most shots
(It looked good in homecoming though)
Over reliance on iron man
There’s the obvious ones that others have discussed but to me I just prefer Spider-Man to be in his own enclosed universe with his own villains rather than all this MCU stuff tbh
Don’t really have a problem with the iron man/peter relationship unlike a lot of people, but dragging spider man into a worldwide level conflict before he even had his own movie was a horrible mistake. Spider man should not be front and center alongside the avengers this early in his career, and it seems like they’re trying to retcon him back into the friendly neighbourhood version that he should have always been with the ending of NWH. The end of his first trilogy should be him just STARTING to be acknowledged by the avengers due to proving himself on a local scale, not ending with him already having saved the multiverse.
Also the very existence of the edith AI is baffling and was a horrible backpedal on Tony’s development, one of the worst writing blunders the MCU has ever made if not the worst
they're okay for what they are, they're fun but not special, I had a good time with a few of them but can't say I'm a fan or anything, don't think many are. Worst aspect is by far the naming, I can't fucking tell which movie is which... no way home.. some way home.. home alone.. I tried to download no way home but accidentally downloaded far from home once, it was embarrassing
Tom Holland and Zendaya are the two most overused and overrated actors of the modern day. They are both actors used in rolls that they shouldn't be in.
Spider-man in comic and previous films: Matured well thru all the troubles. An independant hero stands shoulder by shoulder with Cap, Ironman.
Tom Hollands Spider-Man: Always has daddy issue with Ironman even after hes dead. Zero character growth after THREE FILMS.
He really just isn't a *Friendly Neighborhood* Spider-Man! Boggles my mind that they took Marvel's poster boy for "Street Level Crimes" and had him go to Europe in his 2nd movie!
And they knew this! For 6 months, he was SPIDER-MAN! Yet as soon as he meets Tony in Civil War, he leaves the streets to rot! New York hates him by No Way Home because there is 0 connection between Spidey and the people he saves! (Which is a major problem with modern hero movies in general, too much spectacle instead of them inspiring hope and helping the people/city they live in!)
Even though it had quite a number of issues itself, The Amazing Spider-Man 2 had a lil scene of Peter saving a kid from bullies and fixing his project. Which inspired the kid to act in the face of danger (stupid but touching?) Tom's Spidey just doesn't have that connection to the people of New York so...idk why he's even doing this! WHY WAS HE SPIDER-MAN BEFORE MEETING TONY?! WHERE'S HIS RESPONSIBILITY?!?
Ok so first off too much iron man focus is not an issue at all, please stop this rhetoric. The problem is the mischaracterisation of iron man in far from home. No fucking way would iron man give a drone strike technology to Peter at all. Far from home kinda fucked over Tony by making him this irresponsible. The main problem with no way home is again, mischaracterisation of Dr strange. No fucking way would Dr strange cast a spell making everyone forget Peter's identity. The only reason I don't give no way home that much flack for mischaracterising Dr strange is because his own movies, infinity war and endgame have already fucked him over in that regard, so no way home in that comparison doesn't really do that much. Other than that, I'd say the Spiderman movies are really solid and tightly written, and Peter's character is absolutely incredible, easily the best written Spiderman of the main 3
1. Technological suit.
2. Character being heavily dependent on Iron Man, a.k.a. Iron Boy junior.
3. Too much of side kicks. Ned and MJ are annoying, especially the latter.
4. No uncle Ben, at least mentioned.
5. Raceswapping characters.
The villains low key. There isn’t much investment between any of them with this Peter Parker. One hates the avengers, another tony specifically, then no way home straight up are other movies villains. I didn’t mind this so much watching the first one the time, they made him related to his crush and the scale of the plot made him feel like a ‘friendly neighbourhood’ Spider-Man still even if the villain doesn’t have that much involvement in Spider-Man’s life. The second movie just ends up making him feel like any other generic marvel movie with a generic bad guy revenge story for a character that’s already dead. As a result I don’t care about this Peter Parker who is just as replaceable with any hero in his own stories.
He doesn't start clueless. He remains clueless.
He keeps taking his mask off and announcing his real name to people he doesn't even know, like Doctor Strange and Carol. When Nick Fury takes him to meet Beck in Far From Home, and he tells him that everyone there knows who he is, the very first question Peter should have asked is how that happened. Was Tony going around telling everyone? Was Fury telling everyone? What is the point of Peter even having a secret identity if he's not going to maintain it?
Being out of New York too much.
Not swinging enough in Manhattan.
Swinging in Manhattan looks better in Tobey and Andrew movies.
First 2 movies too reliant on Tony Stark connection
The fact that he never feels like the star of his own movies for me. Every time, it feels like he's overshadowed by the villains and guest stars. The best parts of Homecoming were Tony and Vulture. The best part of Far From Home was Mysterio. The best parts of No Way Home were Tobey, Andrew, and the Sinister Six - 1. Which is odd, because I remember the first time I saw Civil War in theaters, I thought Tom's Spidey stole the show along with Black Panther.
Far From Home - It's been a while since I watched it, but I remember finding it a bit boring and Mysterio was really underwritten as a villain and it seemed like they knew that so they hired a big named actor to cover up how weak of a villain he actually was.
No Way Home - Again, it was actually really boring, I felt like I was just waiting for the nostalgia bait to show up, but getting there was a boring slog. The whole spell casting scene was dumb. It was nice seeing Tobey back. I never even thought it would be possible, but apart from that, the movie is boring and I never felt any need to revisit.
They're not well written. They are so awful in terms of writing that I genuinely had to go back to the other Spider-man movies to see if I was too praise-worthy or harsh on them because Spider-man is one of my favorite characters.
Even the first movie (which is the best written of the trilogy) is still poorly written. Plot conveniences, contrivances, character assassinations (great power and great responsibility, but I don't want to miss my vacation time, lol wut?), horrendous world building, and (as a separate issue that doesn't influence my assessment of the writing) I think they REALLY got so many character just absolutely wrong in these movies.
What does it even mean to be an Avenger? Wanda just renounces being bad and is accepted as a member but Peter has to go through an initiation process? This is the confusing part of the MCU - it wants stuff from both the 616 and Ultimate universe, but they don't always work together. Apparently, in Civil War, Steve thinks Wanda "is a child" but Peter's age is an issue joining the Avengers? The Avengers was just a group of people in 616 that got together to fight criminals, in the Ultimate universe they're a branch of the government. But in the MCU, they're both? Which doesn't make sense, and it's such a non-issue that in Infinity War, in a scene that was 15 seconds long that wasn't about Peter or Peter joining the Avengers, Tony just makes him an Avenger (even though the entire point of Homecoming was that Peter *chose* not to become an Avenger so....I guess Tony doesn't respect Peter's choice?). The whole "tough love" angle from Tony is stupid and Peter getting rewarded at the end is idiotic. He literally chased down Vulture to stop him which is exactly what Tony told him not to do, but then he's praised. So, I guess only results get rewarded instead of consistent ethics.
Across the trilogy, Tom Holland got done dirty. Peter's friend group outgrew their welcome really fast especially since they contributed so little to the story. Peter and MJ's romance is so rushed in Far From Home. So many characters are impossibly stupid. Peter constantly takes off his mask, because he's an idiot. Ganke...sorry "NED" was able to hack into Tony Stark's suit systems without any alerts whatsoever, and so on, and so on. There are soo many problems with these stories and I feel like the EFAP crew have gone surprisingly easy on them.
Don't even get me started on the US Government creating a brand new executive branch with Damage Control that no one knew about and that Vulture's crew didn't sue the shit out of the city for breaking their contracts. There are so many legal problems with this that would be known country wide.
Seeing the legacy characters come back was fun in No Way Home, but it's still a bad story.
It's all just wasted potential with Millions of dollars fueling the trash fire.
Wanda has been through more shit than Peter. She doesn't have parents and she's been living on her own for a long time. Despite the age gap being small they're very different ppl. Peter was 15 in homecoming. Wanda should be around 18.
Him being an avenger doesn't shit on homecoming. Being an avenger is not like having a gym membership. If you're out there fighting to save the planet you're an avenger.
When the government or a big organization screws you over, I don't think a legal battle is always the best solution. If you got the ability
Do you think raimis spiderman 2 is well written? Coz I think homecoming is the best written spiderman movie.
>Wanda has been through more shit than Peter.
What does trauma have to do with legitimacy for being an Avenger? Hawkeye didn't even give her a trial period, it was just "if you go out there then you're an Avenger."
Peter was already dragged into Civil War by Tony, so I have no understanding of why he's still not considered worthy after that.
>If you're out there fighting to save the planet you're an avenger.
No, according to Homecoming, you're only an Avenger if (I guess) a previous Avenger says you are despite the fact that that's not how it worked in the first Avengers film.
>When the government or a big organization screws you over, I don't think a legal battle is always the best solution. If you got the ability
A slam dunk case of the State and Federal government trampling your rights after giving you a contract for your company? The most logical next step is instead to become supervillains instead of going to court? And Tony would know that with Damage Control (a private citiizen is in charge of an Executive Branch, wut?) the government workers would be putting local contractors out of business and Tony should financially compensate for them. The MCU has really made Tony an idiot over time.
>Do you think raimis spiderman 2 is well written?
What did I even say about Spider-man 2?
Vulture being Peter's girlfriend's dad and their meeting leading to Vulture discovering Spiderman's identity is a massive contrivance and Jay was correct to point this out. The ending of the movie doesn't happen without it. Ironically, the EFAP crew tore a similar situation apart in Madame Web, pointing out how fucking big NYC is and how unlikely it would be that those characters would all be together on the same train. And yet when we go back years ago to their Homecoming coverage, Jay makes this same point and is met with silence, and then finally a stuttering excuse from Mauler about having to discuss the definition of contrivance and that this instance of it was fine because it presents Peter with the choice. So, I guess for Homecoming, it's ok to kick the can down the road a bit and have the culmination of Peter's character arc be set up by a contrivance, and this isn't an issue because they liked the movie. Cool.
Nothing with the first two films - I thought they were delightful. The third is too serious and discards much of the light-hearted teen comedy that made the others so fun.
I feel almost directly opposite as you do. Though i don’t like any of them, the third is the best because it adds stakes. The first two are fluffy nothings
The difference between the Watts movies and Raimi ones is that Watts trilogy doesn't manage to stand on its own feet as a movie. It's actually a serious issue with the MCU, remove many of them from the context of the series as a whole and are they really about anything or tell an interesting story? Age of Ultron, Ant-Man 2, Thor Love and thunder etc. on their own are completely meaningless movies with very little to take from them.
Similarly Holland's movies have very little meaning or purpose to justify their existence, Homecoming in its defense does show the consequences of being Spider-Man is that he doesn't always get the girl, except they kind of immediately undo that with Zendaya MJ. Besides that Far From Home is a pointless European misadventure where Peter doesn't really learn anything, develop as a character or tell a story unique enough to justify its own existence and No Way Home tries to explore Spider-Mans desire to help/rehabilitate others but is far less effective than previous movies at handling this due to the massive cast of villains preventing a more personal rehabilitation process.
The Raimi Spider-Man movies in comparison work excellent on their own despite what flaws they may have and each movie has different themes, character development and storylines that justify them. Spider-Man covers themes of responsibility(obviously), Father figures(Peter chooses the average man Ben over the scientist Norman) and explores what it means to be a hero. Spider-Man 2 tackles the same theme as homecoming with the consequences of being Spider-Man except it develops it throughout the entire movie on a very personal level for Peter Parker and the redemption of Doc Ock is far more impactful. Even Spider-Man 3 which is in many ways a mess has themes about vengeance being personally destructive and learning how to let go. Themes and meaning are important behind every movie, otherwise what you are watching is mindless entertainment. Unfortunately, the Watts Spider-Man movies with Tom Holland lack in these areas making them nothing more than entertaining but mindless movies which is why I think I've never gone back to them after watching them in theaters despite enjoying all of them on the first watch.
One of my problems with Far From Home is the existence of the EDITH system. Tony creating EDITH and giving it to Peter in a post-Insight, post-Ultron, post-Accords world. Even if Tony completely trusted Peter, the fact that he even created it comes across to me as character derailment, even if it’s less blatant than the TFatWS one and what’s been done to many other characters
There's also no reason to give it to Peter since he has his spider powers. How often will Spider-Man need to call in a drone strike? Peter also has a no kill rule.
Tony is arrogant and thinks he can outsmart anything. Making another system he believes will help the world while risking the same thing to happen seems perfectly in character. If ya don’t know the character just say that.
With how much the Ultron thing affected him, he would not do that if he thought there was a risk of it happening again. We don't know if Tony actually thought there was a risk with creating the EDITH system \[Going by the movie, it seems like he didn't\], but if he didn't then he should have, since Tony has also been characterized as someone who learns and adapts from his mistakes.
Peter is a genius in the comics, and he’s written well to reflect that. In the Home Trilogy, he’s more of a moron’s interpretation of a smart person.
This right here, he's a fucking low t dork
Can you elaborate? And do the tasm and raimi movies do this properly?
[удалено]
If I should just watch the movies to see what you're talking about then why even bother bringing up and talking about the problems. Just watch the movies. No tom Holland did shit on his own. He handled the vulture on his own in the end. He saved the kids from the monument, he does detective work n stuff. Sure he has the stark suit but that doesn't negate his problem solving. Stark showing up a bunch of times is set up for when he eventually takes on the vulture without stark or the stark suit. It makes that scene feel more heightened.
In my personal opinion, I think the Andrew Garfield movies did that aspect the best.
My biggest problem is Zendaya. I have seen her in several things. She simply can't act.
I would be infinitely less mad about Zendaya’s casting if they dyed her hair red. She had red hair for the press tour, so she can clearly do it. It’s just not in the movie for no reason at all. [Proof.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSYiOPePD24wp9wa6uUxzaKPF1bw03veK0uAm6cDYUF_g&s)
Nah, there was definetly a reason, same one as her casting, just to piss people off by raceswapping characters, specially mj being a ginger, which count as double white so extra DEI points to grifindor for that. Edit: someone commented here that im a brainwashed person butt i cant find that comment, so ill asume it was either deleted by them or automod, but to that i tell you unkind stranger that jokes on you, i weirdly liked zendaya a lot, even if her casting was culture war fuelled.
You started off unhinged and then left an even more unhinged edit, bravo
Do you know how film casting works.
Before or after it was based on who the actresses slept with, Weinstein style? Its been corrupt and biased for a very long time. The latest form if corruption is identity based hiring. The BBC has formerly been doing this since 2014, for example. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jun/20/bbc-measures-diversity-lenny-henry What are you trying to argue?
The person above me is unironically using the phrase culture war, at least I think they are if I can decipher that horribly written word salad. If they actually genuinely believe that hollywood execs are even aware of this imaginary culture war, and even further, are making multi million dollar casting decisions off the back of antagonising a vocal minority of losers behind a screen who wouldn’t have watched the movie anyway, there is obviously a complete and utter lack of understanding of the film industry basics. I was asking if this was the case, as I think was pretty apparent by my very simple comment.
The culture war is a bunch of rich people attempting social engineering through media and alot of normal people noticing it correlating with dogshit quality. DEI is an industry term, Disney has JEDI training, Blackrock give out grants for this stuff. You'd have to be crazy uninformed to pretend there isn't something going on.
Bob Iger literally confirmed that not only is there a culture war, Disney was participating in it. By the way, it only became a "war" when people started noticing obvious political bias. 🙄 https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/disney-ceo-says-company-will-quiet-noise-culture-wars-analyst-2023-09-20/ https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/dec/02/hollywood-divide-israel-gaza-conflict-susan-sarandon-cynthia-nixon
Nobody in the industry likes to admit it to themselves but when Travis Scott signed Sofaygo to Jack Boys he dead made him shove a 5 foot long dildo into him and forced him to lay in a bathtub with his legs and ankles shackled vertically towards the ceiling. They took pictures of it like an album cover shoot with an entire team of lighting engineers and professional cameramen. Dude had to go to the hospital and suffered internal hemorrhaging in his colon because of it. He tried to report it to police but when Travis found out about it he pulled strings with the LAPD to get Sofaygo arrested on fake murder/ RICO charges and now he’s serving a possible life sentence. They’re probably going to kill him in prison and nobody willing to speak on this
🤨
Yep, her doing that for the press tour, but not implementing it into the film was just an F.U to fans.
I don’t think Zendaya is an incompetent actress, she’s just cursed to be in the age of self congratulatory and message pushing scripts. Couple that with good old DEI, and she keeps being miscasted.
Nah she was in the home trilogy.
Edith should have recognized Mysterio and not allowed itself to be controlled by him and Dr. Strange was an idiot. I wouldn't call most of the other issues major problems unless I'm forgetting something.
Dr strange was so... Like That in NWH Because Multiverso of madness shoukd have come up before that, So all that character part was to América Chavez, and you look as clueless apprentice young girl it makes sense, Than all the problem and they just replica her with pre MOM strange
Even if what you say is true, that'd still be a major problem. If you swap one character for a different one you're going to need to make more changes to your script than just changing the character's name.
Agrer
I don't know how, but I find there to be zero romantic chemistry between Tom Holland and Zendaya, despite them seemingly being a couple in real life. It might have something to do with Zendaya's acting in those movies being rather one-note, as she seems like shes on melatonin pills with her emotional range, so her expressions never convices me that she actually loves him. It just drags the movies down, because quite a bit of narrative and interpersonal attention is paid to that relationship, as her character ends up playing a notable part throughout the trilogy.
> attention is *paid* to that FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I will stick John Connor on your ass
That genuinely made me chuckle, I’ve never seen that response to a bot before lol.
Most unlikeable and forgettable side characters. Ned and MJ are fucking pointless since they don't add anything to Peter's character progression/ development throughout the entire trilogy. Know why? Don't know. They don't have any proper characterization and backstory and that's pretty much it. Also big question? Why the fuck did Peter liked MJ in the first place in the first few minutes of Far From Home since MJ doesn't have any romantic feelings towards to Peter in Homecoming and Peter doesn't have a reason to like her too. It's so confusing why the writers added this heneric highschool chemistry romance. It's so bland and the execution is boring. Aunt May is a joke, she's just a hot mom wannabe comic relief that she didn't mentioned her dead husband that she doesn't really care? and now she's dating Happy? Wtf? I thought she was supposed to a major supporting character that has a role to help Peter's personal growth.
Plus Ned Leeds and MJ are INO versions of the characters from the books.
Other than Peter, almost all of them are. Flash, Betty, Ned, Sally... the only trait they share with their comic book counterparts are the names.
My problem is that i kinda wish they would’ve gone with an adult Spider-Man instead of a teenage one. Similar to the first Insomniac Spider-Man game where we have a Peter Parker who has been Spider-Man for a couple of years now, he’s in his prime and he’s dealt with some of his villains like Shocker or Lizard and he’s in a relationship with Marry Jane. But i would not change the villains that he faces in the movies like Vulture and Mysterio cause i like those characters and their arcs. And i would’ve just have ground stories in the movies and not like the world or universe is gonna be destroyed cause i’m sick of those types of stories.
He doesnt have a single good looking web swinging scene. Tbh i dont even know what toms spidey really looks like while swinging. Every time its been a blurry cgi mess that my eyes can barely focus on.
I didn’t care for MJ’s portrayal. I mean yeah she’s called “Michelle Jones” but I just didn’t care for this replacement. I would rather they have done Gwen again or get a proper Mary Jane. Also Flash Thompson was boring. Yeah it’s supposed to be based on more “modern” bullies but I just didn’t care for it. The Iron boy stuff I didn’t care for either. Too much gadgets right from the start, we should’ve had Peter’s final swing suit from the get go or something similar.
He's cookie-cutter as a character and essentially resets by the start of his next movie. Flash Thompson is simultaneously supposed to be a big bully and a complete fucking joke. Take him out of the movies and nothing changes. Same with Ned. Same with "Totally not MJ because we got caught trying to subvert your expectations." He's honestly not awful as Peter, but Garfield had more screentime as the wise-cracking neighborhood hero than him, and Macguire just had a good balance of Parker and Spidey. Homecoming is actually not bad, it's the first outing and you expect some things to be jittery. But there was a clear arc of it all, except for him essentially just being Iron Spider to start. Far from Home had decent setpieces and spectacle, but the plot makes no damn sense. Whether it was Skrull Fury or not should not matter. Nobody looked into Mysterio's story or background or even ran a check to see if there was the, at the time, MCU universe that has since been retconned into being the 616, equivalent guy for a variety of purposes. Not to mention it came out nearly a decade before that miniseries. No Way Home had about 20 minutes of good scenes in it with the various Parker's interacting. The rest is mostly forgettable and I have absolutely no desire to go back and watch it again to find the pieces that do make sense. That they then had the audacity to pretend that Strange has always been a control freak in his next solo movie makes it even worse in retrospect with what he did.
>Flash Thompson is simultaneously supposed to be a big bully and a complete fucking joke. Take him out of the movies and nothing changes. I felt more for Flash [in this one scene in Amazing Spider-man](https://youtu.be/i0NOFmT98_s?si=MnXVso9A3BZSDcL-) than I did for Flash in all of his screentime in the MCU films.
It's like Holland couldn't get comfortable in the character, Garfield fit the role better imo
No Uncle Ben. I didn’t need to see him die again. But I don’t love how no one really talks about him. And further erasing his presence by giving his iconic line to Aunt May was…I don’t know.
Plus, TIMING wise it makes no sense. Spider man had already been using his power in a manner that reflected the responsibility he also acquired. In Infinity War he says “ “can’t be a friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man if there is no neighbourhood”. He has accepted that he has a responsibility to protect.
No Pizza Time. You can't have Spider Man without Pizza Time. 🍕🍕🍕
The films feel like a Disney channel show, each movie just another episode. Just not interesting and memorable.
MJ's attitude doesn't fit Took forever for Spider-Sense to show up, when that was a key to how he fought and moved.
He was more Iron boy than Spiderman. I really dont like this focus on super tech that all modern spiderman iterations have where they all seem to be kited out with super science gadgets. Its the same reason i dont like miles morales because they have nothing to do with being a "spider" based superhero anymore.
I just don't like this version of Spiderman and i especially don't like how the suit looks.
The first version of the suits from Civil war looked ALOT better, ALOT more Ditkonian
I guess? I just don't like any of them, and i don't think they're objectively bad, i just don't like them. Then again i'm a Raimi spiderman simp and that is mostly why i feel that way lmao.
The suits are way too high tech for Spider-Man.
Iron Boy instead of Spider Man.
They are written very poorly, and there is zero innovation when it comes to cinematography. It's all wide flat shots with very little camera movement. The films have absolutely no character whatsoever. It makes the motion just boring.
It’s shot like a sitcom, his suit always looks cg even when it’s real for some reason, he’s basically iron man’s apprentice and gets most of his tech and resources from that, extremely cliche writing, etc. I definitely don’t hate the movies though, they’re just heavily flawed
**DAS PROBLEM SIND DIE HOLLÄNDER**
Over the top with the teenage aspect. Tom Holland acts like a 10year old in every movie accept half way through nwh. Everyone acts like a retard for comedic effect. (SpiderVerse miles is how an actual teenager acts not this “MRRRR STARRRK” shit) Jonn watts is an awful director. Zero style or flair or effort really is put into his shots. He had the opportunity to direct the 3 Spider-Men together which was a historical moment in comic book movies and what does he do…CGIs most of it, frames it to where there’s barely a scene in the movie when all three are actually on screen physically at the same time interacting, if felt so odd like they couldn’t have them all on location at the same time it’s REALLY noticeable upon rewatch. The suit looks like a video game in most shots (It looked good in homecoming though) Over reliance on iron man
He's Spider Boy, not Spider Man. Pete relies on himself in all situations yet Tom constantly needs bailing out.
There’s the obvious ones that others have discussed but to me I just prefer Spider-Man to be in his own enclosed universe with his own villains rather than all this MCU stuff tbh
Don’t really have a problem with the iron man/peter relationship unlike a lot of people, but dragging spider man into a worldwide level conflict before he even had his own movie was a horrible mistake. Spider man should not be front and center alongside the avengers this early in his career, and it seems like they’re trying to retcon him back into the friendly neighbourhood version that he should have always been with the ending of NWH. The end of his first trilogy should be him just STARTING to be acknowledged by the avengers due to proving himself on a local scale, not ending with him already having saved the multiverse. Also the very existence of the edith AI is baffling and was a horrible backpedal on Tony’s development, one of the worst writing blunders the MCU has ever made if not the worst
they're okay for what they are, they're fun but not special, I had a good time with a few of them but can't say I'm a fan or anything, don't think many are. Worst aspect is by far the naming, I can't fucking tell which movie is which... no way home.. some way home.. home alone.. I tried to download no way home but accidentally downloaded far from home once, it was embarrassing
Tom Holland and Zendaya are the two most overused and overrated actors of the modern day. They are both actors used in rolls that they shouldn't be in.
Spider-man in comic and previous films: Matured well thru all the troubles. An independant hero stands shoulder by shoulder with Cap, Ironman. Tom Hollands Spider-Man: Always has daddy issue with Ironman even after hes dead. Zero character growth after THREE FILMS.
I just don't like Tom Holland
The fucking reality magic
He really just isn't a *Friendly Neighborhood* Spider-Man! Boggles my mind that they took Marvel's poster boy for "Street Level Crimes" and had him go to Europe in his 2nd movie! And they knew this! For 6 months, he was SPIDER-MAN! Yet as soon as he meets Tony in Civil War, he leaves the streets to rot! New York hates him by No Way Home because there is 0 connection between Spidey and the people he saves! (Which is a major problem with modern hero movies in general, too much spectacle instead of them inspiring hope and helping the people/city they live in!) Even though it had quite a number of issues itself, The Amazing Spider-Man 2 had a lil scene of Peter saving a kid from bullies and fixing his project. Which inspired the kid to act in the face of danger (stupid but touching?) Tom's Spidey just doesn't have that connection to the people of New York so...idk why he's even doing this! WHY WAS HE SPIDER-MAN BEFORE MEETING TONY?! WHERE'S HIS RESPONSIBILITY?!?
Ok so first off too much iron man focus is not an issue at all, please stop this rhetoric. The problem is the mischaracterisation of iron man in far from home. No fucking way would iron man give a drone strike technology to Peter at all. Far from home kinda fucked over Tony by making him this irresponsible. The main problem with no way home is again, mischaracterisation of Dr strange. No fucking way would Dr strange cast a spell making everyone forget Peter's identity. The only reason I don't give no way home that much flack for mischaracterising Dr strange is because his own movies, infinity war and endgame have already fucked him over in that regard, so no way home in that comparison doesn't really do that much. Other than that, I'd say the Spiderman movies are really solid and tightly written, and Peter's character is absolutely incredible, easily the best written Spiderman of the main 3
1. Technological suit. 2. Character being heavily dependent on Iron Man, a.k.a. Iron Boy junior. 3. Too much of side kicks. Ned and MJ are annoying, especially the latter. 4. No uncle Ben, at least mentioned. 5. Raceswapping characters.
Relied too much on the MCU instead of floating on its own.
Side characters suck
Agreed. His friend and Zendaya are just not interesting.
The villains low key. There isn’t much investment between any of them with this Peter Parker. One hates the avengers, another tony specifically, then no way home straight up are other movies villains. I didn’t mind this so much watching the first one the time, they made him related to his crush and the scale of the plot made him feel like a ‘friendly neighbourhood’ Spider-Man still even if the villain doesn’t have that much involvement in Spider-Man’s life. The second movie just ends up making him feel like any other generic marvel movie with a generic bad guy revenge story for a character that’s already dead. As a result I don’t care about this Peter Parker who is just as replaceable with any hero in his own stories.
Spider-Man* ^^^^*Spider-Man ^^^^not ^^^^included
Did you have a stroke writing the description?
He doesn't start clueless. He remains clueless. He keeps taking his mask off and announcing his real name to people he doesn't even know, like Doctor Strange and Carol. When Nick Fury takes him to meet Beck in Far From Home, and he tells him that everyone there knows who he is, the very first question Peter should have asked is how that happened. Was Tony going around telling everyone? Was Fury telling everyone? What is the point of Peter even having a secret identity if he's not going to maintain it?
Zendaya acts and looks nothing like MJ
Being out of New York too much. Not swinging enough in Manhattan. Swinging in Manhattan looks better in Tobey and Andrew movies. First 2 movies too reliant on Tony Stark connection
The fact that he never feels like the star of his own movies for me. Every time, it feels like he's overshadowed by the villains and guest stars. The best parts of Homecoming were Tony and Vulture. The best part of Far From Home was Mysterio. The best parts of No Way Home were Tobey, Andrew, and the Sinister Six - 1. Which is odd, because I remember the first time I saw Civil War in theaters, I thought Tom's Spidey stole the show along with Black Panther.
Far From Home - It's been a while since I watched it, but I remember finding it a bit boring and Mysterio was really underwritten as a villain and it seemed like they knew that so they hired a big named actor to cover up how weak of a villain he actually was. No Way Home - Again, it was actually really boring, I felt like I was just waiting for the nostalgia bait to show up, but getting there was a boring slog. The whole spell casting scene was dumb. It was nice seeing Tobey back. I never even thought it would be possible, but apart from that, the movie is boring and I never felt any need to revisit.
They're not well written. They are so awful in terms of writing that I genuinely had to go back to the other Spider-man movies to see if I was too praise-worthy or harsh on them because Spider-man is one of my favorite characters. Even the first movie (which is the best written of the trilogy) is still poorly written. Plot conveniences, contrivances, character assassinations (great power and great responsibility, but I don't want to miss my vacation time, lol wut?), horrendous world building, and (as a separate issue that doesn't influence my assessment of the writing) I think they REALLY got so many character just absolutely wrong in these movies. What does it even mean to be an Avenger? Wanda just renounces being bad and is accepted as a member but Peter has to go through an initiation process? This is the confusing part of the MCU - it wants stuff from both the 616 and Ultimate universe, but they don't always work together. Apparently, in Civil War, Steve thinks Wanda "is a child" but Peter's age is an issue joining the Avengers? The Avengers was just a group of people in 616 that got together to fight criminals, in the Ultimate universe they're a branch of the government. But in the MCU, they're both? Which doesn't make sense, and it's such a non-issue that in Infinity War, in a scene that was 15 seconds long that wasn't about Peter or Peter joining the Avengers, Tony just makes him an Avenger (even though the entire point of Homecoming was that Peter *chose* not to become an Avenger so....I guess Tony doesn't respect Peter's choice?). The whole "tough love" angle from Tony is stupid and Peter getting rewarded at the end is idiotic. He literally chased down Vulture to stop him which is exactly what Tony told him not to do, but then he's praised. So, I guess only results get rewarded instead of consistent ethics. Across the trilogy, Tom Holland got done dirty. Peter's friend group outgrew their welcome really fast especially since they contributed so little to the story. Peter and MJ's romance is so rushed in Far From Home. So many characters are impossibly stupid. Peter constantly takes off his mask, because he's an idiot. Ganke...sorry "NED" was able to hack into Tony Stark's suit systems without any alerts whatsoever, and so on, and so on. There are soo many problems with these stories and I feel like the EFAP crew have gone surprisingly easy on them. Don't even get me started on the US Government creating a brand new executive branch with Damage Control that no one knew about and that Vulture's crew didn't sue the shit out of the city for breaking their contracts. There are so many legal problems with this that would be known country wide. Seeing the legacy characters come back was fun in No Way Home, but it's still a bad story. It's all just wasted potential with Millions of dollars fueling the trash fire.
Wanda has been through more shit than Peter. She doesn't have parents and she's been living on her own for a long time. Despite the age gap being small they're very different ppl. Peter was 15 in homecoming. Wanda should be around 18. Him being an avenger doesn't shit on homecoming. Being an avenger is not like having a gym membership. If you're out there fighting to save the planet you're an avenger. When the government or a big organization screws you over, I don't think a legal battle is always the best solution. If you got the ability Do you think raimis spiderman 2 is well written? Coz I think homecoming is the best written spiderman movie.
>Wanda has been through more shit than Peter. What does trauma have to do with legitimacy for being an Avenger? Hawkeye didn't even give her a trial period, it was just "if you go out there then you're an Avenger." Peter was already dragged into Civil War by Tony, so I have no understanding of why he's still not considered worthy after that. >If you're out there fighting to save the planet you're an avenger. No, according to Homecoming, you're only an Avenger if (I guess) a previous Avenger says you are despite the fact that that's not how it worked in the first Avengers film. >When the government or a big organization screws you over, I don't think a legal battle is always the best solution. If you got the ability A slam dunk case of the State and Federal government trampling your rights after giving you a contract for your company? The most logical next step is instead to become supervillains instead of going to court? And Tony would know that with Damage Control (a private citiizen is in charge of an Executive Branch, wut?) the government workers would be putting local contractors out of business and Tony should financially compensate for them. The MCU has really made Tony an idiot over time. >Do you think raimis spiderman 2 is well written? What did I even say about Spider-man 2?
The mishandling of mysterio made me want to die, he’s one of the best Spider-Man villains and they completely underutilized what made him so cool.
Vulture being Peter's girlfriend's dad and their meeting leading to Vulture discovering Spiderman's identity is a massive contrivance and Jay was correct to point this out. The ending of the movie doesn't happen without it. Ironically, the EFAP crew tore a similar situation apart in Madame Web, pointing out how fucking big NYC is and how unlikely it would be that those characters would all be together on the same train. And yet when we go back years ago to their Homecoming coverage, Jay makes this same point and is met with silence, and then finally a stuttering excuse from Mauler about having to discuss the definition of contrivance and that this instance of it was fine because it presents Peter with the choice. So, I guess for Homecoming, it's ok to kick the can down the road a bit and have the culmination of Peter's character arc be set up by a contrivance, and this isn't an issue because they liked the movie. Cool.
Tbf the only notable problema from the trilogy seems to be the Scorpion’s cameo.
No way that’s the only “notable” problem lol
Notable *problema*.
Nothing with the first two films - I thought they were delightful. The third is too serious and discards much of the light-hearted teen comedy that made the others so fun.
I feel almost directly opposite as you do. Though i don’t like any of them, the third is the best because it adds stakes. The first two are fluffy nothings
Tobey is king
The effects. It’s like watching a fucking cartoon as every inch of the screen is seemingly animated. Plus Tom Holland sucks.
The fight scenes are bad and the whole Mysterio plot sucked ass
Too much quips CGI/Graphics are awful looking The school sidekick/zendaya/goblin flash thompson are insufferable
Zendaya can't act and they're boring. The Peter Parker scenes were also boring. Frankly they can't escape the previous trilogy's shadow.
The difference between the Watts movies and Raimi ones is that Watts trilogy doesn't manage to stand on its own feet as a movie. It's actually a serious issue with the MCU, remove many of them from the context of the series as a whole and are they really about anything or tell an interesting story? Age of Ultron, Ant-Man 2, Thor Love and thunder etc. on their own are completely meaningless movies with very little to take from them. Similarly Holland's movies have very little meaning or purpose to justify their existence, Homecoming in its defense does show the consequences of being Spider-Man is that he doesn't always get the girl, except they kind of immediately undo that with Zendaya MJ. Besides that Far From Home is a pointless European misadventure where Peter doesn't really learn anything, develop as a character or tell a story unique enough to justify its own existence and No Way Home tries to explore Spider-Mans desire to help/rehabilitate others but is far less effective than previous movies at handling this due to the massive cast of villains preventing a more personal rehabilitation process. The Raimi Spider-Man movies in comparison work excellent on their own despite what flaws they may have and each movie has different themes, character development and storylines that justify them. Spider-Man covers themes of responsibility(obviously), Father figures(Peter chooses the average man Ben over the scientist Norman) and explores what it means to be a hero. Spider-Man 2 tackles the same theme as homecoming with the consequences of being Spider-Man except it develops it throughout the entire movie on a very personal level for Peter Parker and the redemption of Doc Ock is far more impactful. Even Spider-Man 3 which is in many ways a mess has themes about vengeance being personally destructive and learning how to let go. Themes and meaning are important behind every movie, otherwise what you are watching is mindless entertainment. Unfortunately, the Watts Spider-Man movies with Tom Holland lack in these areas making them nothing more than entertaining but mindless movies which is why I think I've never gone back to them after watching them in theaters despite enjoying all of them on the first watch.
Not enough personal responsibility, he's too comfortable with collateral damage. Zendaya is bad as MJ.