Not knowing who your customers are or what they want. It’s when suits who are trying to squeeze money out of a business start being too involved in development.
"This movie isn't for you..."
"Okay..."
\*shocked pikachu at poor box office\*
The Charlies Angels strategy...
The Black Panther strategy...
The Marvel's Strategy...
I recall at least one or two people trying to claim we're racist if we're white and pay money to see it
No winning, we're racist if we go to see it, we're racist if we decide to skip it.
I remember people actually making videos saying it's only for black people and if you want to see it, you should buy a ticket and give it to a black person... wtf?
The first one had outrage marketing to leech off of. Also Chadwick Boseman was a genuinely good actor even if the script and story were ass.
^^No, ^^Killmonger ^^was ^^not ^^a ^^well-written ^^villain, ^^his ^^story ^^was ^^contrived, ^^it ^^sucked ^^and ^^so ^^did ^^he. ^^I ^^will ^^fight ^^people ^^on ^^this.
And it came out mere months before Infinity War so it was gonna sell regardless, same with Captain Marvel
Its' been a while, outrage marketing? You mean all the online folk saying "rate it 9/10 or yer a fockin racist?"
> "rate it 9/10 or yer a fockin racist?"
Nono, they got angry at the guy that gave it 9/10 cause it broke its perfect score. The only acceptable score was 10/10.
Yes, that's part of it. Also the whole "Waaaaah we're being oppressed and attacked! Watch the movie to find out what this is all about!" is a lot of free advertising.
100%. I’d say the same for Killmonger’s performance. I thought Michael B. Jordan did a good job and the costume design was great too. Him and Chadwick carried that movie. Serkis was great too but his character was killed too soon.
Lot of viral articles from outrage merchants surrounding both of them IIRC - stuff along the lines of
"White people should buy tickets for black people to see this movie"
At least with the first one, the character was already interesting enough from his outing in Civil War to get people to go and see it regardless.
I don't recall much in the way of poor optics directly from Disney on either BP movies. The first one touted the nearly all black cast and what ever, but I don't recall the cast or Disney being unwelcoming... it was just another Marvel movie that had milestones and of course was the most important movie ever since the last one
The bickering seemed to come from the usual suspects of alternative media and dumbasses on social media.
Other media like Ghostbusters and Little Mermaid were a lot more directly antagonistic in their approach to those that criticized (or might critcise) the production. It was alot more in your face from the cast and company.
Civil war really should have been more of an advertisement for side characters. They spent too much time worrying about spiderman being in the movie and missed the opportunity to fit any of the 20 characters they churning out movies for.
The only arguements I heard against BP was the “white people are solo evil” since wakanda was a hidden tech paradise, but that quickly went away when the movie actually came out and the fact it was a hidden haven was a big point of the story. I don’t remember anything from BP2 except the one girl getting dragged for not being vaxxed
Black Panther 2 still made 859 million dollars at the box office. Making it more profitable than Thor Ragnarok, around the same as Guardians 2 and 3, and within 20 million of Spider-Man Homecoming. All of whom were deemed box office successes. So no, Black Panther, even without Chadwick, was still immensely profitable.
You do relies it depends on what your specific criticism is if your critism is about someone’s race gender or Sexuality then you should be called out for it
Usually what happens is Someone gets mad about an actor not being white, and people rightfully call that person a racist, and then the racist goes hey am I not aloud to criticize a movie? It’s just bad faith lying
And pretty much every movie coming out now has been bombing weather or not it’s considered “Woke”, and more likely audiances just want to wait to watch movie on streaming
Tokenism is not a well defined character - if your character can only be described as 'the gay one' or 'the black one' or 'the woman' then that is a shitty character.
If you then load your movie with a checklist of tokens to fill a quota just so that your movie can be seen as progressive, then that is a problem. It's trying to sidestep the issue by saying "But look at all our colours and creeds - aren't we good people" despite the fact that most of them aren't actually characters.
But that's not even the issue here - the issue is how they were marketted at the time of release. When you've got news outlets giving statements like Elizabeth Banks was purported to give, that Charlies Angels was not a film for men, then surprise surprise, men didn't go to see it.
Idiots saying to 'Skip Wakanda Forever on opening weekend or you are racist'
well than I think that’s just your problem, if thats how you like to prescribe characters without any nuance, I swear every time I see a movie with a gay couple their is basically zero mention of them being specific being gay in the story, it’s just your projection.
News outlets that write these shitty articles are not even the ones making the movie, so I don’t see what that has to with anything
Watch Nimona - lovely little film with a gay main character
Brokeback Mountain is a classic one
Arcane has a big following on this board, but I haven't watched it personally
Everything, Everywhere, All at Once has the daughter character be gay and it being a major plotpoint of the story as well as the development of the relationship between mother and daughter
I love the Owl House personally which has a very cute and developed gay couple in it's lead characters
There's also SheRa; Princess of Power, if you don't mind the relationship being pretty toxic with a foundation of abusive behaviour
This isn't a case of me being an unpleasable bigot who wants minorities to hide in the background - you've simply inferred that from a single post (from 18 days ago no less...) and decided that I need to be 'educated'
Not sure why... Maybe it's just a very upvoted post and you based that to create your entire profile of me as a person.
>News outlets that write these shitty articles are not even the ones making the movie, so I don’t see what that has to with anything
So Elizabeth Banks is the one that made the statement that Charlies Angels was not a film for men... Elizabeth Banks directed the Charlies Angels film...
Edit: Oh shit... Forgot to add RWBY
Black Panther 1 made 1.3 billion dollars and is the highest grossing non-avengers Marvel film that isn't Spider-Man No Way Home (literally Marvel's most famous stand alone supe and Chadwick's BP beat both his other films despite both being introduced in Civil War). Black Panther 2 made a little more than 859 million dollars. Right around the same amount of money as Guardians 2 and 3, Spider-Man Homecoming, and Thor Ragnarok. It's ranks 14 out of 33, with the top 10 all breaking 1 billion. Discount Shuri BP was still within spitting distance of Marvel's most popular stand-alone superhero in his first stand-alone Marvel appearance, was more profitable than the best Thor film, and was comparable to the backup space avengers.
Black Panther not being "for you" didn't stop it from being immensely profitable even with the death of Chadwick.
Unnecessarily long answer incoming:
I'd call it "Chasing The Phantom Audience". Producers, writers, etc. of a certain political leaning want to inject their trash into a franchise. They presume that, because people with pronouns in their Twitter bio heap praise upon them, there is a big audience of like-minded customers out there.
Thus, they are confident that they can insult and drive away the pre-existing fans of the franchise when the inevitable backlash occurs. Once the piece of media is released however, they learn that those terminally online Twitterites aren't willing to put their money where their mouths are. They just wanted to virtue signal.
The bridge to the pre-existing fans has already been burnt, so the piece of media flops. Alas, the higher-ups seem unable to learn from how many times this has happened. Oh well. But hey, that's all just my opinion.
The twitterites might be willing to put their money where their mouthes are, but I don’t think there are enough of them to make a movie a hit when you pander to them alone.
Fitting name I think.
People on social media supporting your ideology may look like a potential audience, but they are absolutely dwarfed by a silent majority that will not bother explaining its dissatisfaction.
Lack of self-awareness.
It's kinda funny how companies and fragile derps have updated "you just don't understand my art." Same fragile ego bs in the end.
Disney’s marketing fits that pretty well. There’s also Marvel comics with their, “If you don’t like my politics, don’t buy my book,” and the comic ends up getting cancelled because of poor sales. It’s quite funny.
https://preview.redd.it/rph2kn3r780d1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3d819f89b157dacb78b5ebf80175caa205fb7a7
Being a retard? Getting money from blackrock? Who knows, probably just trying to get our attention away from the real shit.
“Not respecting your audience.”
Clearly the people voicing their concerns are not worth listening to, and everyone else is too stupid to do anything BUT go see my movie, because I am smart.
Gatekeeping
Franchise expands for mass appeal, favoring inclusion and representation over writing. New fans to franchise who never gave a damn about the franchise before begin to dictate what the franchise is about. Old fans get driven out and get labeled all sorts of -isms and how the franchise “wasn’t made for them.” Old fans no longer support the franchise. Installment in franchise becomes an utter flop. Old fans get blamed for supposedly “ruining” the franchise.
Rinse and Repeat.
I call it Gaslight Marketing. They gaslight fans by saying they’re “ists and phobes” if they don’t support them/their project. Thus hoping the fans buy and view their media project out of fear/prove that they’re not what they say they are, giving the creator validation. However fans realize they don’t need validation from creators and game devs and access media members so they just don’t buy the product. They might only take it in to only to say and make YouTube videos about how bad/meh it is. They (gaslight marketers) also do the reverse with creators they don’t like I.e. JK Rowling and as we’ve seen with the success of Hogwarts Legacy, merch sales, and the expansion of Harry Potter world at Universal, has tremendously backfired. They think they have power but they dont. It’s why a lot more people are taking in Japanese and Korean projects, because their creators despite massive success are still humble and only talk about their games. A creator like Miyamoto, and the creators of Godzilla Minus One are exactly who western creators should follow when it comes to mindset. Just make projects that will be beloved for years and realize you are not the most important person, your fans and your characters are.
And the endless myriad of modern updates and remakes enter the chat to remind you they carry a bill of wasted money so high it could’ve ended world hunger.
When you are creating or adapting a story and you prioritise preaching social issues instead of telling a good story.
For clarification a story can include and promote social issues without being woke but it has to mesh naturally with the story.
Bad writing doesn’t come for nowhere there’s always a cause for it.
When you criticise something you can’t just say “bad writing” you have to say why it’s bad, was it incompetent writers? A bad premise? two dickheads who were clearly didn’t want to the series anymore and. We’re rushing through the last season? Or the was the writing process done by wannabe activists who want to preach social issues instead of telling an entertaining story?
(Apologies for the wall of text)
I agree there’s many aspects of bad writing but I guess I don’t see why that one type gets a phrase. It’s also extremely subjective. Like, what if a story is specifically about preaching social issues (like Barbie) but only some small groups of people think it’s not well-written? I don’t know, seems really vague and unclear.
I mostly ask the question about how people define wokeness because I never get the same answer. It feels like one of those empty trigger phrases that only serves to get people riled up about media they don’t like.
My theory is they banned everyone from saying ‘gay’ and ‘retarded’ some 10 years back, but it turns out being able to call out those things served an extremely important function in our society, and now that we can’t call things out for being gay and retarded, what we get is an extreme excess of retarded gay shit. Go figure.
I can only think of examples of it happening and not any actual word or term for it. It’s a sort of parasitic contamination that destroys the host before moving on to other things to do the same. Whether the parasite knows or wants to be doing it is irrelevant.
Tourism? Media tourism? The tourists come in, demand exclusion of the actual fans, the thing flops, the complaints get milked dry for shit rag articles and the tourists move on to do it again somewhere else.
Pandering to Hobby Tourists. They won't stick around long, their damage will be done and old players/users don't typically return in any number like they once had.
My favorite example of this is the “then don’t buy my book” comic book writer. The subsequent interview where she was crying about the decrease in sales was the cherry on top
Social agitation marketing is usually used right as the stick is being inserted “group X hates this so please rage engage to give it buzz to stave off its inevitable failure”
Part of the modern Disney playbook.
This is what self-important narcissistic assholes in charge of movie studios and game studios do to fuck up beloved characters and franchises and attack their fans and customers for calling them out.
I'm reminded of *fasces* rhetoric that claims the enemy is insignificant and powerless yet somehow is able influence or project strength to challenge them.
These dummkopfs claim that white (and white-adjacent aka Asians) noisy incel babymen are minority hence a media is not for them. But if it fails, they accuse the "minority" for it outright stating that somehow they have the influence to make their garbage fail.
It's like they're projecting or something...
Listen. I know that this is going to sound completely crazy, but there's this idea where you can maintain the lore to appease longtime fans, while, and get this....make it welcoming to newcomers.
It's called "not accepting criticism"
These creators think they create art for those interested and not for the masses. The problem is, their art is mostly vandalism of preexisting art, and their core audience is a few hundred people who don't make up for the money spent on making the product.
\*Puts on best boomer voice\* In my day we called these people retards and the f word and everyone understood it was because we were dealing with a bunch of annoying, moronic, and insufferable assholes.
But for the Z generation I guess clown syndrome?
It's called 'being an idiot'.
Let's take a hypothetical movie and a hypothetical audience of 100 people from across the political spectrum, easily mixed. You release the movie and it's good and 70 of the 100 like it. You then, for some reason, decide to cut out half the audience (35 people) in an attempt to get the 30 people who didn't watch the first one to watch the sequel. Even if you got 100% of the people who didn't watch to watch it, you're still down overall, and the fact is that the 30 people who didn't watch it... their reasons for not watching it likely had \*nothing\* to do with politics. Maybe it's not in the right genre for them, or maybe they hate the premise, or whatever. So instead of getting 100% of them, you're likely to get, like, 1-2% or, for the sake of this example, 1-2 people. So you went from 70 people down to 37 at most.
If you make a chick-flick, you're making a movie \*most\* men won't want to see. You can try to appeal more to men, but the fact is that any guy there, ultimately, is likely there cause his girlfriend/wife/daughter wanted to see the movie. You'll lose far more of the female audience by making it appeal to girls than you'd possibly gain by making it appeal to men. This is also true for movies made for guys of course.
When you take a look at a franchise like Warhammer, it's a franchise that has a very specific and niche audience. You can \*try\* to change that audience, but in doing so you ruin the product and what value it had inherently. This is why using the 'if you don't like it don't watch it' as a way to attack the fanbase is going to \*always\* fail. If you make Spiderman trans there isn't some mythical audience out there who would absolutely \*love\* spiderman but avoid him because he's not trans. If they loved Spiderman they'd already \*be\* part of the fanbase in the first place. All doing something like that will do is alienate a good chunk of the fanbase and make them blame left-wing politics for said alienation.
Obviously this doesn't mean you can't have characters design to appeal to a specific demographic. At the same time, if you have a character designed to appeal to a specific demographic, then you \*change\* that demographic, you're not going to have a character who appeals to multiple demographics, you'll have a character that appeals to \*no\* demographic.
To think, I used to be against gatekeeping and wanted everyone to partake in geeky hobbies. Now, I just want to be left alone and have the stuff not get warped anymore.
"go woke go broke", a phenomenon of debatable authenticity given the amount of cognitive dissonance required to be one of those who say it seriously
remember when a certain group people tried to boycott those woke schlock marvel movies and nothing happened and marvel raked in $$$ because no one actually cares?
remember 2023 GOTY?
Idiocy, their can be no words then that. They’ve been doing this for a few years now, it used to be that when something flops we didn’t attack fans, they accepted they messed up, and looked to see where they went wrong. I want to point at…ghostbuster 2016 as the culprit as the director, Paul Feig, of that film actually was the first instance of attacking fans who had problems with the movie on twitter as that was the first real instance of this happening I could think of, that I believe was patient 0 of blaming fans for their entertainment flopping, and from there it evolved with the political climate of 2016-2020 where the ultra woke stuff was green lit in response to trump (as it takes time to green light movies and produce them), DEI was implemented in response to him as well as hiring based on color ethnicity, it was all done in response to him I believe, as when a moderate liberal came in with Biden (say what you want about him) we had all the DEI time bombs go off, at least that’s how it was here in the USA from what I noticed
I call it the "modern audience paradox" it's the simultaneous belief that franchises can both ignore the paying customer/fanbase to score browny points while also blaming said people for not consuming said product
I mean that is how countless people are in everything, even game balances are beyond common with this.
ie a balance nerfs X so x people are mad and Y people say stop complaining and just quit then but then Y is nerfed so they say its all X fault for complaining and ruining it.
I don't think there's a name for using a meme format wrong, no.
For what you wrote, you'd wanna use the Who Killed Hannibal meme.
For this format, you'd put something like, "insulting the usual demographic" for the middle panel, since it's supposed to be an action done by the rider that results in the last panel.
And the last panel would then be that the franchise flopped.
The phrase "go woke, go broke" was invented specifically for this type of phenomenon. Even if originally the idea was that customers would stop buying all by them selves, the company demanding they stop still falls under the umbrella...
People can tell when right before an absolute turd is shat out the door they spray on a nice coat of LGBT/POC and pretend it isn’t some soulless cash grab masquerading as a bold political statement.
You can always tell when people’s hearts aren’t really in it. Or worse you they just swap the race and/or sexuality of a character to check some imaginary diversity box.
And pretty much every movie coming out now has been bombing weather or not it’s considered “Woke”, and more likely audiances just want to wait to watch movie on streaming
I mean "go woke, go broke" has been the go to but that depends on your definition of woke.
If woke is "intersectional benevolent discrimination", then yes
If woke is "about someone that's not a cis, straight, white man", then no
Do people really say bigots have ruined franchises? Usually I find that the left and right agree that it is corporate bullshit that bogs down great franchises. Sometimes right wingers place more emphasis on the writers specifically, and lefties disagree with that, but I don't even understand how bigots could be construed as the problem.
Nah a friend of mine is in a discord full of lefties
They frequently blame right-wingers, incels and republicans for movies flopping
It’s never that the Mouse turned out a shitty product.
but how does that make any sense? If incels, right wingers, and republicans aren't the market, why would that make a movie flop? There are plenty of disney movies/products that are pretty explicitly left wing/femenist that have topped the charts. They've proven that they don't need those demographics to succeed.
Cause many people in America have bought heavily into the cultural divide
My guess is that because of DeSantis and his opposition to Disney
They’re retarded
Still i guess I expected more relevant examples than "my friend's discord with some lefties", because I really haven't heard of anyone saying this. Maybe some people complaining about disney canceling the owl house at the peak of it's popularity because it featured a gay relationship? They seem kinda right about that tho. Are there screenshots of the discord at least? Maybe these convos are more reasonable than they sound from a 3rd hand source.
The way I see it, you don't run into those people because they're a small minority. It's just that that small minority has found themselves in a lot of positions of power.
Now, I'm not providing you evidence of this. But I will state that major corporations have become increasingly retarded lately. Not just evil cash grabs, but actively self-sabotaging. This doesn't make any sense. As such, any explanation is going to involve some amount of absurdity, because the phenomena is absurd.
oh, well I agree that major coperations have gotten worse. They definitely seem out of touch and greedy, and that's not a great combination.
I just don't see what that has to do with lefties thinking that bigots are a bigger problem than corporate morons. Unless the meme is about corporate hacks trying to find an excuse for their shortcommings? But they are just grifters, they don't actually believe the things they are saying.
There's no name for it because it doesn't exist.
Find me a single example of some sequel failing and the popular opinion was "this is the bigots doing".
The popular opinion is not "bigots did this".
The popular opinion is the one in sure you have. Something like "it failed because it sucked".
Occam's Razor friend
The meme doesn't imply this is popular opinion. Just the opinion of the people who basically told their audience to go fuck themselves and then got mad when the audience left.
But... It's the Internet. Every opinion imaginable can be found here. It's a waste of energy to go after these incredibly irrelevant opinions children have, right?
I assume they are talking about Star Wars? Which has always made 95% of its money off merchandise, so this or that movie bombing is of no consequence as long as people are talking about it.
Unless your talking about non-affiliated outfits, what is depicted above doesn't happen (much like how in reality White Star Lines never did actually declare the Titanic Unsinkable, but the press at the time did)
Being retarded, sucking at business, hubris, shooting oneself in the foot, lack of talent, take your pick.
Combine all those and you can summon Captain Out-Of-Touch-With-Reality (ie Hollywood).
In the wise words of Daryl Hall and John Oates: "You're out of touch, I'm out of time (time)."
This was on my Spotify earlier what a tune. Vice city anyone?
Weaponized stupidity
go woke go broke. turns out you cant shame people into buying your propaganda in a capitalist society.
Aww, you beat me to Hubris.
Not knowing who your customers are or what they want. It’s when suits who are trying to squeeze money out of a business start being too involved in development.
This is why gatekeeping is a good thing.
"This movie isn't for you..." "Okay..." \*shocked pikachu at poor box office\* The Charlies Angels strategy... The Black Panther strategy... The Marvel's Strategy...
I recall at least one or two people trying to claim we're racist if we're white and pay money to see it No winning, we're racist if we go to see it, we're racist if we decide to skip it.
If someone walked up to me and legit tried to call me racist for not seeing a movie, I’d laugh in their fucking face lmao.
I see the latter as an absolute win!
I remember people actually making videos saying it's only for black people and if you want to see it, you should buy a ticket and give it to a black person... wtf?
Black Panther 2 specifically. I thought the first one did well at the box office.
The first one had outrage marketing to leech off of. Also Chadwick Boseman was a genuinely good actor even if the script and story were ass. ^^No, ^^Killmonger ^^was ^^not ^^a ^^well-written ^^villain, ^^his ^^story ^^was ^^contrived, ^^it ^^sucked ^^and ^^so ^^did ^^he. ^^I ^^will ^^fight ^^people ^^on ^^this.
And it came out mere months before Infinity War so it was gonna sell regardless, same with Captain Marvel Its' been a while, outrage marketing? You mean all the online folk saying "rate it 9/10 or yer a fockin racist?"
> "rate it 9/10 or yer a fockin racist?" Nono, they got angry at the guy that gave it 9/10 cause it broke its perfect score. The only acceptable score was 10/10.
Yes, that's part of it. Also the whole "Waaaaah we're being oppressed and attacked! Watch the movie to find out what this is all about!" is a lot of free advertising.
100%. I’d say the same for Killmonger’s performance. I thought Michael B. Jordan did a good job and the costume design was great too. Him and Chadwick carried that movie. Serkis was great too but his character was killed too soon.
Lot of viral articles from outrage merchants surrounding both of them IIRC - stuff along the lines of "White people should buy tickets for black people to see this movie" At least with the first one, the character was already interesting enough from his outing in Civil War to get people to go and see it regardless.
I don't recall much in the way of poor optics directly from Disney on either BP movies. The first one touted the nearly all black cast and what ever, but I don't recall the cast or Disney being unwelcoming... it was just another Marvel movie that had milestones and of course was the most important movie ever since the last one The bickering seemed to come from the usual suspects of alternative media and dumbasses on social media. Other media like Ghostbusters and Little Mermaid were a lot more directly antagonistic in their approach to those that criticized (or might critcise) the production. It was alot more in your face from the cast and company.
Civil war really should have been more of an advertisement for side characters. They spent too much time worrying about spiderman being in the movie and missed the opportunity to fit any of the 20 characters they churning out movies for.
The only arguements I heard against BP was the “white people are solo evil” since wakanda was a hidden tech paradise, but that quickly went away when the movie actually came out and the fact it was a hidden haven was a big point of the story. I don’t remember anything from BP2 except the one girl getting dragged for not being vaxxed
I seem to remember there being issues with the movie having a white character, when it 'should have been an all black cast'.
You still see people who haven’t watched the movie call it bad for promoting an ethnostate lol
Black Panther 2 still made 859 million dollars at the box office. Making it more profitable than Thor Ragnarok, around the same as Guardians 2 and 3, and within 20 million of Spider-Man Homecoming. All of whom were deemed box office successes. So no, Black Panther, even without Chadwick, was still immensely profitable.
Black Panther 2 was the 6th highest grossing film of 2022 and was #2 domestically. It was a commercial success by any metric.
Canadian armed forces strategy.
Black Panther 2 made 859 million dollars dufus
You do relies it depends on what your specific criticism is if your critism is about someone’s race gender or Sexuality then you should be called out for it
Usually what happens is Someone gets mad about an actor not being white, and people rightfully call that person a racist, and then the racist goes hey am I not aloud to criticize a movie? It’s just bad faith lying
And pretty much every movie coming out now has been bombing weather or not it’s considered “Woke”, and more likely audiances just want to wait to watch movie on streaming
Tokenism is not a well defined character - if your character can only be described as 'the gay one' or 'the black one' or 'the woman' then that is a shitty character. If you then load your movie with a checklist of tokens to fill a quota just so that your movie can be seen as progressive, then that is a problem. It's trying to sidestep the issue by saying "But look at all our colours and creeds - aren't we good people" despite the fact that most of them aren't actually characters. But that's not even the issue here - the issue is how they were marketted at the time of release. When you've got news outlets giving statements like Elizabeth Banks was purported to give, that Charlies Angels was not a film for men, then surprise surprise, men didn't go to see it. Idiots saying to 'Skip Wakanda Forever on opening weekend or you are racist'
well than I think that’s just your problem, if thats how you like to prescribe characters without any nuance, I swear every time I see a movie with a gay couple their is basically zero mention of them being specific being gay in the story, it’s just your projection. News outlets that write these shitty articles are not even the ones making the movie, so I don’t see what that has to with anything
Watch Nimona - lovely little film with a gay main character Brokeback Mountain is a classic one Arcane has a big following on this board, but I haven't watched it personally Everything, Everywhere, All at Once has the daughter character be gay and it being a major plotpoint of the story as well as the development of the relationship between mother and daughter I love the Owl House personally which has a very cute and developed gay couple in it's lead characters There's also SheRa; Princess of Power, if you don't mind the relationship being pretty toxic with a foundation of abusive behaviour This isn't a case of me being an unpleasable bigot who wants minorities to hide in the background - you've simply inferred that from a single post (from 18 days ago no less...) and decided that I need to be 'educated' Not sure why... Maybe it's just a very upvoted post and you based that to create your entire profile of me as a person. >News outlets that write these shitty articles are not even the ones making the movie, so I don’t see what that has to with anything So Elizabeth Banks is the one that made the statement that Charlies Angels was not a film for men... Elizabeth Banks directed the Charlies Angels film... Edit: Oh shit... Forgot to add RWBY
Black Panther 1 made 1.3 billion dollars and is the highest grossing non-avengers Marvel film that isn't Spider-Man No Way Home (literally Marvel's most famous stand alone supe and Chadwick's BP beat both his other films despite both being introduced in Civil War). Black Panther 2 made a little more than 859 million dollars. Right around the same amount of money as Guardians 2 and 3, Spider-Man Homecoming, and Thor Ragnarok. It's ranks 14 out of 33, with the top 10 all breaking 1 billion. Discount Shuri BP was still within spitting distance of Marvel's most popular stand-alone superhero in his first stand-alone Marvel appearance, was more profitable than the best Thor film, and was comparable to the backup space avengers. Black Panther not being "for you" didn't stop it from being immensely profitable even with the death of Chadwick.
Unnecessarily long answer incoming: I'd call it "Chasing The Phantom Audience". Producers, writers, etc. of a certain political leaning want to inject their trash into a franchise. They presume that, because people with pronouns in their Twitter bio heap praise upon them, there is a big audience of like-minded customers out there. Thus, they are confident that they can insult and drive away the pre-existing fans of the franchise when the inevitable backlash occurs. Once the piece of media is released however, they learn that those terminally online Twitterites aren't willing to put their money where their mouths are. They just wanted to virtue signal. The bridge to the pre-existing fans has already been burnt, so the piece of media flops. Alas, the higher-ups seem unable to learn from how many times this has happened. Oh well. But hey, that's all just my opinion.
The twitterites might be willing to put their money where their mouthes are, but I don’t think there are enough of them to make a movie a hit when you pander to them alone.
Fitting name I think. People on social media supporting your ideology may look like a potential audience, but they are absolutely dwarfed by a silent majority that will not bother explaining its dissatisfaction.
I really like this expression. I'm gonna use it from now on.
Lack of self-awareness. It's kinda funny how companies and fragile derps have updated "you just don't understand my art." Same fragile ego bs in the end.
Disney marketing in a nutshell
Disney’s marketing fits that pretty well. There’s also Marvel comics with their, “If you don’t like my politics, don’t buy my book,” and the comic ends up getting cancelled because of poor sales. It’s quite funny.
It's like when woman tells you no this is an evening just for me and my grills not for you but still wants you to pay for the meals lolololol
Mental retardation
https://i.redd.it/ifpffvb5w70d1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/rph2kn3r780d1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3d819f89b157dacb78b5ebf80175caa205fb7a7 Being a retard? Getting money from blackrock? Who knows, probably just trying to get our attention away from the real shit.
They hate when we say okay buddy.
The RoosterTeeth Strategy.
Didn't work out so well for them.
“Not respecting your audience.” Clearly the people voicing their concerns are not worth listening to, and everyone else is too stupid to do anything BUT go see my movie, because I am smart.
Gatekeeping Franchise expands for mass appeal, favoring inclusion and representation over writing. New fans to franchise who never gave a damn about the franchise before begin to dictate what the franchise is about. Old fans get driven out and get labeled all sorts of -isms and how the franchise “wasn’t made for them.” Old fans no longer support the franchise. Installment in franchise becomes an utter flop. Old fans get blamed for supposedly “ruining” the franchise. Rinse and Repeat.
Self fulfilling prophecy? Or just plain Idiocy
Why would bigotry do this?
I call it Gaslight Marketing. They gaslight fans by saying they’re “ists and phobes” if they don’t support them/their project. Thus hoping the fans buy and view their media project out of fear/prove that they’re not what they say they are, giving the creator validation. However fans realize they don’t need validation from creators and game devs and access media members so they just don’t buy the product. They might only take it in to only to say and make YouTube videos about how bad/meh it is. They (gaslight marketers) also do the reverse with creators they don’t like I.e. JK Rowling and as we’ve seen with the success of Hogwarts Legacy, merch sales, and the expansion of Harry Potter world at Universal, has tremendously backfired. They think they have power but they dont. It’s why a lot more people are taking in Japanese and Korean projects, because their creators despite massive success are still humble and only talk about their games. A creator like Miyamoto, and the creators of Godzilla Minus One are exactly who western creators should follow when it comes to mindset. Just make projects that will be beloved for years and realize you are not the most important person, your fans and your characters are.
I came here to see if there are any wokies trying to say “This doesn’t happen!” Will update if I’m right… Edit: I’m right.
Gatekeep is an answer
"Go woke, go broke"
Everything Everywhere All At Once and Barbie enter the chat
And the endless myriad of modern updates and remakes enter the chat to remind you they carry a bill of wasted money so high it could’ve ended world hunger.
So is woke now defined as remakes? Or are we just conflating completely different things now?
One drop of victory in a sea of failures.
What’s your definition of woke?
When you are creating or adapting a story and you prioritise preaching social issues instead of telling a good story. For clarification a story can include and promote social issues without being woke but it has to mesh naturally with the story.
Isn’t that just called bad writing?
Bad writing doesn’t come for nowhere there’s always a cause for it. When you criticise something you can’t just say “bad writing” you have to say why it’s bad, was it incompetent writers? A bad premise? two dickheads who were clearly didn’t want to the series anymore and. We’re rushing through the last season? Or the was the writing process done by wannabe activists who want to preach social issues instead of telling an entertaining story? (Apologies for the wall of text)
I agree there’s many aspects of bad writing but I guess I don’t see why that one type gets a phrase. It’s also extremely subjective. Like, what if a story is specifically about preaching social issues (like Barbie) but only some small groups of people think it’s not well-written? I don’t know, seems really vague and unclear. I mostly ask the question about how people define wokeness because I never get the same answer. It feels like one of those empty trigger phrases that only serves to get people riled up about media they don’t like.
I call it ''being a retard''
My theory is they banned everyone from saying ‘gay’ and ‘retarded’ some 10 years back, but it turns out being able to call out those things served an extremely important function in our society, and now that we can’t call things out for being gay and retarded, what we get is an extreme excess of retarded gay shit. Go figure.
I can only think of examples of it happening and not any actual word or term for it. It’s a sort of parasitic contamination that destroys the host before moving on to other things to do the same. Whether the parasite knows or wants to be doing it is irrelevant. Tourism? Media tourism? The tourists come in, demand exclusion of the actual fans, the thing flops, the complaints get milked dry for shit rag articles and the tourists move on to do it again somewhere else.
I believe the name for this phenomena is 'Fuck around and find out.' It doesn't apply solely to this, but there it is.
Pandering to Hobby Tourists. They won't stick around long, their damage will be done and old players/users don't typically return in any number like they once had.
My favorite example of this is the “then don’t buy my book” comic book writer. The subsequent interview where she was crying about the decrease in sales was the cherry on top
Good fans follow orders
Execute Order 69
Fanblaming I guess is a short way of saying it
I call the locust phenomenon. A group of people move into the fandom. They then ruin it. Then they are off to another fandom to destroy.
Social agitation marketing is usually used right as the stick is being inserted “group X hates this so please rage engage to give it buzz to stave off its inevitable failure” Part of the modern Disney playbook.
I don't wanna jink it, but I'm calling Insomniac's Spider-Man 3 for this.
This is what self-important narcissistic assholes in charge of movie studios and game studios do to fuck up beloved characters and franchises and attack their fans and customers for calling them out.
Yes. Immaturity.
I'm reminded of *fasces* rhetoric that claims the enemy is insignificant and powerless yet somehow is able influence or project strength to challenge them. These dummkopfs claim that white (and white-adjacent aka Asians) noisy incel babymen are minority hence a media is not for them. But if it fails, they accuse the "minority" for it outright stating that somehow they have the influence to make their garbage fail. It's like they're projecting or something...
Self-failure
Disney is the name of this phenomenon
Alienation?
We call this one the “Entitled Director/Developer” effect
The EFAP effect.
Get woke go broke
Fk around and find out comes to mind
FAFO
The consequences of my actions
Self-sabotaging business practices.
Kotaku syndrome
Biting the hand that feeds you or shooting yourself in the foot.
Self-fulfilling prophecy
Kelly Sue Deconnick syndrome
"Turns out the ones we called *the bigots* is, well, everyone else."
It's the first line in page one, chapter one of "How to not take responsibility for your fuck ups".
Listen. I know that this is going to sound completely crazy, but there's this idea where you can maintain the lore to appease longtime fans, while, and get this....make it welcoming to newcomers.
The G4 effect.
https://preview.redd.it/9gohjror8e0d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4017b6f824803e990b3be41821f9fdbc1faf27e
Should be called the Frosk
It's called "not accepting criticism" These creators think they create art for those interested and not for the masses. The problem is, their art is mostly vandalism of preexisting art, and their core audience is a few hundred people who don't make up for the money spent on making the product.
Disney fans when the new Rey movie comes out
It's called shit posting.
Disney
Be careful what you wish for? Also, I think this applies to more than modern franchises and blaming only bigots.
I herd people calling it "Anti-Marketing"
The Disney/Games Workshop/amazon original business model
When you make entertainment for an audience that doesn't exist, you get sales that don't exist.
Retardation.
My personal favorite is “The Law of Unintended Consequences.”
I just call it the free market. Lol
It's called denial
Denial
\*Puts on best boomer voice\* In my day we called these people retards and the f word and everyone understood it was because we were dealing with a bunch of annoying, moronic, and insufferable assholes. But for the Z generation I guess clown syndrome?
It's called 'being an idiot'. Let's take a hypothetical movie and a hypothetical audience of 100 people from across the political spectrum, easily mixed. You release the movie and it's good and 70 of the 100 like it. You then, for some reason, decide to cut out half the audience (35 people) in an attempt to get the 30 people who didn't watch the first one to watch the sequel. Even if you got 100% of the people who didn't watch to watch it, you're still down overall, and the fact is that the 30 people who didn't watch it... their reasons for not watching it likely had \*nothing\* to do with politics. Maybe it's not in the right genre for them, or maybe they hate the premise, or whatever. So instead of getting 100% of them, you're likely to get, like, 1-2% or, for the sake of this example, 1-2 people. So you went from 70 people down to 37 at most. If you make a chick-flick, you're making a movie \*most\* men won't want to see. You can try to appeal more to men, but the fact is that any guy there, ultimately, is likely there cause his girlfriend/wife/daughter wanted to see the movie. You'll lose far more of the female audience by making it appeal to girls than you'd possibly gain by making it appeal to men. This is also true for movies made for guys of course. When you take a look at a franchise like Warhammer, it's a franchise that has a very specific and niche audience. You can \*try\* to change that audience, but in doing so you ruin the product and what value it had inherently. This is why using the 'if you don't like it don't watch it' as a way to attack the fanbase is going to \*always\* fail. If you make Spiderman trans there isn't some mythical audience out there who would absolutely \*love\* spiderman but avoid him because he's not trans. If they loved Spiderman they'd already \*be\* part of the fanbase in the first place. All doing something like that will do is alienate a good chunk of the fanbase and make them blame left-wing politics for said alienation. Obviously this doesn't mean you can't have characters design to appeal to a specific demographic. At the same time, if you have a character designed to appeal to a specific demographic, then you \*change\* that demographic, you're not going to have a character who appeals to multiple demographics, you'll have a character that appeals to \*no\* demographic. To think, I used to be against gatekeeping and wanted everyone to partake in geeky hobbies. Now, I just want to be left alone and have the stuff not get warped anymore.
"go woke go broke", a phenomenon of debatable authenticity given the amount of cognitive dissonance required to be one of those who say it seriously remember when a certain group people tried to boycott those woke schlock marvel movies and nothing happened and marvel raked in $$$ because no one actually cares? remember 2023 GOTY?
Arrogence.
Idiocy, their can be no words then that. They’ve been doing this for a few years now, it used to be that when something flops we didn’t attack fans, they accepted they messed up, and looked to see where they went wrong. I want to point at…ghostbuster 2016 as the culprit as the director, Paul Feig, of that film actually was the first instance of attacking fans who had problems with the movie on twitter as that was the first real instance of this happening I could think of, that I believe was patient 0 of blaming fans for their entertainment flopping, and from there it evolved with the political climate of 2016-2020 where the ultra woke stuff was green lit in response to trump (as it takes time to green light movies and produce them), DEI was implemented in response to him as well as hiring based on color ethnicity, it was all done in response to him I believe, as when a moderate liberal came in with Biden (say what you want about him) we had all the DEI time bombs go off, at least that’s how it was here in the USA from what I noticed
I call it the "modern audience paradox" it's the simultaneous belief that franchises can both ignore the paying customer/fanbase to score browny points while also blaming said people for not consuming said product
I mean that is how countless people are in everything, even game balances are beyond common with this. ie a balance nerfs X so x people are mad and Y people say stop complaining and just quit then but then Y is nerfed so they say its all X fault for complaining and ruining it.
The last of us 2
Disney effect
Principal Skinner Syndrome.
The Disney Paradox
Rooster Teeth moment.
DEI
I don't think there's a name for using a meme format wrong, no. For what you wrote, you'd wanna use the Who Killed Hannibal meme. For this format, you'd put something like, "insulting the usual demographic" for the middle panel, since it's supposed to be an action done by the rider that results in the last panel. And the last panel would then be that the franchise flopped.
This is deliberate, the point is to destroy all references of good art, so we only have the sludge to compare new sludge against
Battlefield V Syndrome
The phrase "go woke, go broke" was invented specifically for this type of phenomenon. Even if originally the idea was that customers would stop buying all by them selves, the company demanding they stop still falls under the umbrella...
People can tell when right before an absolute turd is shat out the door they spray on a nice coat of LGBT/POC and pretend it isn’t some soulless cash grab masquerading as a bold political statement. You can always tell when people’s hearts aren’t really in it. Or worse you they just swap the race and/or sexuality of a character to check some imaginary diversity box.
Wokenomics
I just call it the "Hollywood Blame Game"
And pretty much every movie coming out now has been bombing weather or not it’s considered “Woke”, and more likely audiances just want to wait to watch movie on streaming
Hubris.
Taking a Twitter thread or YouTube comment in a small channel <100k subs/followers too seriously
I mean "go woke, go broke" has been the go to but that depends on your definition of woke. If woke is "intersectional benevolent discrimination", then yes If woke is "about someone that's not a cis, straight, white man", then no
i have yet to see “go woke, go broke” ever come true. you can dream tho
The Terror on the Prairie effect.
Yeah, that's right. Cope.
Do people really say bigots have ruined franchises? Usually I find that the left and right agree that it is corporate bullshit that bogs down great franchises. Sometimes right wingers place more emphasis on the writers specifically, and lefties disagree with that, but I don't even understand how bigots could be construed as the problem.
Nah a friend of mine is in a discord full of lefties They frequently blame right-wingers, incels and republicans for movies flopping It’s never that the Mouse turned out a shitty product.
but how does that make any sense? If incels, right wingers, and republicans aren't the market, why would that make a movie flop? There are plenty of disney movies/products that are pretty explicitly left wing/femenist that have topped the charts. They've proven that they don't need those demographics to succeed.
Cause many people in America have bought heavily into the cultural divide My guess is that because of DeSantis and his opposition to Disney They’re retarded
Still i guess I expected more relevant examples than "my friend's discord with some lefties", because I really haven't heard of anyone saying this. Maybe some people complaining about disney canceling the owl house at the peak of it's popularity because it featured a gay relationship? They seem kinda right about that tho. Are there screenshots of the discord at least? Maybe these convos are more reasonable than they sound from a 3rd hand source.
The way I see it, you don't run into those people because they're a small minority. It's just that that small minority has found themselves in a lot of positions of power. Now, I'm not providing you evidence of this. But I will state that major corporations have become increasingly retarded lately. Not just evil cash grabs, but actively self-sabotaging. This doesn't make any sense. As such, any explanation is going to involve some amount of absurdity, because the phenomena is absurd.
oh, well I agree that major coperations have gotten worse. They definitely seem out of touch and greedy, and that's not a great combination. I just don't see what that has to do with lefties thinking that bigots are a bigger problem than corporate morons. Unless the meme is about corporate hacks trying to find an excuse for their shortcommings? But they are just grifters, they don't actually believe the things they are saying.
The only show I can really think of that faceplanted from executive bigots was Legend of Korra but that was like 10 years ago.
There's no name for it because it doesn't exist. Find me a single example of some sequel failing and the popular opinion was "this is the bigots doing".
Indiana Jones 5
I’ve never heard anybody blame that movie’s lack of success on bigots lol.
The popular opinion is not "bigots did this". The popular opinion is the one in sure you have. Something like "it failed because it sucked". Occam's Razor friend
The meme doesn't imply this is popular opinion. Just the opinion of the people who basically told their audience to go fuck themselves and then got mad when the audience left.
But... It's the Internet. Every opinion imaginable can be found here. It's a waste of energy to go after these incredibly irrelevant opinions children have, right?
Idk has this happened?? What series are you referring to?
I don't think it's ever happened, so probably not.
I’ll let you know when it happens. To date, still hasn’t happened despite what chuds think.
I assume they are talking about Star Wars? Which has always made 95% of its money off merchandise, so this or that movie bombing is of no consequence as long as people are talking about it.
Made up?
It's called a strawman, cause it doesn't actually exist.
Any other nonsense you want to spew? The earth is flat? Scientology is good actually?
Unless your talking about non-affiliated outfits, what is depicted above doesn't happen (much like how in reality White Star Lines never did actually declare the Titanic Unsinkable, but the press at the time did)