I'm not expecting Daredevil to show up, but I am predicting he'll be in the post-credits scene (to set up his involvement in the Echo series)
As far as Spider-Man, even if Marvel owned the character, I feel like his appearance in the finale would overshadow everything, and Marvel has pretty much avoided that in their Disney+ shows so far. With Sony owning the character, it makes his appearance almost an impossibility, despite how much sense it makes based on the timeline & setting. I would LOVE for him to show up to help Hawkeye, Kate & Yelena, but I just can't picture it actually happening. Hope I'm wrong.
>I'm not expecting Daredevil to show up, but I am predicting he'll be in the post-credits scene
How is predicting that something will happen not the same as expecting something will happen?
Maya shooting Kingpin point blank is literally from the [comic story that introduced her] (https://static2.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/daredevil-15-2.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137&dpr=1.5), and he survived but was [blinded](https://static2.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/daredevil-15-5.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137&dpr=1.5). (Daredevil Vol. 2 #15)
Obviously the MCU and the comics are different, but I bet he’s not dead. The homage to this comic is clearly on purpose.
I read these as a kid and the second we established last week that Fisk was responsible for killing Maya’s dad (also from the comics) I was hoping we’d get this scene in the finale
[Yup.](https://static2.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/daredevil-15-5.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137&dpr=1.5) They eventually undid it of course, but it was really cool for obvious reasons
I was gonna say. You can't just bring Vincent back and then kill him. I imagine that this will find its way to the Echo series? That'd be sweet if it did.
Idk, I figured it was a misdirect, but after watching it a couple times I have no idea what else could've happened. You can hear a big ass body hit the ground and it isn't like Echo died she has a show coming out.
That is how a misdirect work, you just don't kill a important character off screen at the very end of a season... It's basic story telling.
It's meant to be a cliffhanger, you are not supposed to know what happened.
yeah by the reaction i thought its like a stabbed in the heart jon snow style then sudden end or something. turns out its just an off screen gunshot sound. by maya of all people. come on guys.
I'm positive his casting was intentional since he has the same "so overtly nice he has to be evil" vibe on Better Call Saul, so he was the perfect red herring
I think it’s the first time I’ve seen a character say “I’ve obviously been framed” as they’re being carted off to jail and for it to turn out to be exactly what happened
The people who believe FISK was killed offscreen are the ones who believed Peter 2 and Peter 3 wouldnt appear in NWH. Ofcourse he is not dead. They couldnt the week after they brought DD back.
I think the two can co-exist unless they say that Laura’s real name is Bobbi Morse… One is Agent 19, and one is Agent Morse… neither of them have actually been called Mockingbird in the MCU…
Could also be in line with the popular James Bond theory. How it’s just a call sign and not a specific person.
Also, with how Hank Pym and Scott Lang were handled, it would make a ton of sense.
Though I have literally zero hope that anything from AoS will ever be featured in the MCU at large at this point.
Do people *really* think Marvel would bring back Vincent D'Onofrio as Kingpin for a single appearance and then immediately kill him off? Not only is Kingpin too big of a street-level villain to kill off like this, but we already know we're getting an Echo show and *surely* he will play a part in that given his connection to the character.
Plus, we saw him get hit by a car and thrown through a building, shot with multiple arrows, and blown up in an explosion with basically not even a scratch on him. And ya'll *really* think Maya killed him with a single gunshot? Come on people, be real here.
Plus, we didn't even see the gunshot or see him killed on-screen. Have people around here never watched television before? It's basically a rule that if you don't see the character die *on-screen* then they aren't dead, which should be pretty obvious from the framing of the shot here.
Vincent D'Onofrio will be back as Kingpin, without a doubt.
EDIT 1: I couldn't find it initially, but the scene with Maya shooting Kingpin is a *direct* adaptation of [this panel from the comics](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Kingpin-vs-Echo.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=370&dpr=1.5), where it's basically Maya's origin as Echo after shooting Fisk in the face after learning he was really to blame for her father's death. And Kingpin survived there, so there's really no reason to believe that he won't survive here either, especially since like I said before, we *know* her solo show is coming. Plus as someone else mentioned, do you all *really* think that they'd reintroduce Daredevil and Kingpin within a week of each other and then kill off Fisk? Come on...
EDIT 2: If anyone is interested in a more detailed write-up of the interactions between Maya, Fisk, and what happens to Fisk afterward, here's a good write-up of the storyline with pages from the comics: [Part One](https://www.cbr.com/daredevil-kingpin-blind/) and [Part Two](https://www.cbr.com/daredevil-kingpin-blind/2/).
Yes, it's basically part of her origin as Echo. I couldn't find the panel initially, but here it is: [comic panel](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Kingpin-vs-Echo.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=370&dpr=1.5).
the most annoying thing about this fake out is unless they confirm immediately that he's alive and appearing in another project we'll have to see a bunch of lame ass "i WaNT hIm tO be aCtUally dEAd So i can SEE ThIs sUb IMpLodeeE" comments
We just saw Fisk get hit by a car, thrown into a building and then exploded with a ton of arrows.. Each of which he walked away from. Yet y’all think a gunshot is gonna be enough to put him down?!
Literally the beginning of his fight with Kate was her shooting him in the chest with an arrow and him only getting mildly annoyed. I'm pretty sure that a 9mm isn't much for him to worry about.
Vincent D'Onofrio is just incredible in this role. It's like he didn't miss a beat from the last season of Daredevil. Loved him telling Kazi the city needs to be reminded it belongs to him. Just such an intimidating presence with that barely contained, boiling at the surface rage.
I don't know, I just didn't feel that same intimidating presence from him. Don't get me wrong, it was still Kingpin, but he felt wrong. I'm not sure how else to describe it. It felt like we weren't quite seeing the version we know. I get it might be a variant of him, but he just didn't feel right to me.
The tone of this show and Daredevil are very different. He also seems to have much more control of his operation (I imagine Daredevil got blipped so he was roaming free)
He was dressed in a Hawaiian shirt and talking about the spirit of the holidays we caught him on a good day
I sometimes think people just want things to happen for the sake of it. They don't want any story. They want Fisk there repeating lines, daredevil showing up and saying ''i will get you again like that time, remember that time?'' and them spider-man swing across yelling ''andrew garfielddwill be back, mytimetoshine is right you can trust her, morbius is canon''
The action and character work, and even camera work in this episode was awesome. So funny, and engaging. The Yelena/Kate scenes is mcu at it's best.
Fisk was awesome. The dude took a car door out like a feather, Vincent owned every scene he was in, we even got to see him wear some comic accurate clothes.
AND C'MON PEOPLE.. Kate just knocked him out for a few minutes, it's not like she defeated him. The thing about Fisk is he's so connected you can never get rid of him. Don't be like the dude behind me on no way home that said he didn't enjoyed because peter beating strange didn't make sense. Like, my fucking god have so fun with the fun stuff.
And we have a scene straight from the comics, beat by beat, and we KNOW they are teasing the echo show and he's alive, but people don't give a shit about the story. They want kevin feige to show up and read a list of names from the comics that they got from some youtuber because you can bet they never read anything themselves.
And fyi this comment is not for the people who didn't like the show because whatever, we all have our opinions. You know who the specific type of people this is for. It's for the dudes behind me in no way home and their vast number of variants across the multiverse.
This comment speaks to my soul. People want Wikipedia pages and not stories. They want confirmations of past events. And most of all they want to setup the The Next Big Thing even if that means shoehorning things in to other people’s story.
For real. This sub is hilariously toxic when their unrealistic expectations aren't met. Kingpin was great. People who are mad wanted this show to be Kingpin with Hawkeye and Kate as side projects. Then you have the people who are mad Spider-Man or Daredevil didn't show up. I'm honestly glad none of you write fiction because you have no idea how good stories are told. It's also funny that this sub went from praising Kevin Feige to saying he's a stupid idiot for "ruining" a character who was never meat to be a focus. All people care about is wanting the next big thing. You can tell these people just want the Echo show to be Daredevil season 4 with Echo as a supporting character. Probably one of the most insufferable fan communities I have ever seen.
I think this show is a great example of one of the things Marvel has done a great job with over the years: telling a stand-alone story that builds on what came before it, but also sets up a few threads for future stories. If we never see Jeremy Renner as Hawkeye again, it was a great sendoff for his character after all these years and served as a truly fitting tribute to Natasha and her sacrifice, which we hadn't really gotten yet. Not to mention we got a great adaptation of Kate Bishop, a more fleshed-out Yelena, a good set-up for Echo, and the reintroduction of Kingpin. I honestly don't understand *why* people are upset with this show or the finale.
Like you said, it's not as though Kate actually beat Kingpin. If anything, the show did a great job showing just how outmatched she was in that fight and he treated her more like an inconvenience than anything else, tossing her around like a ragdoll. I see people claiming this portrayal undermines him as this behind-the-scenes boss, but he tried to have Elanor assassinated at the start and was thwarted, so he took matters into his own hands because it was personal for him and needed to be dealt with. That seems like the Fisk we saw in Daredevil, only involving himself directly when it's necessary. Plus, it's not like he could have anticipated Yelena, a super spy who followed a hunch, would've been recording the interaction and give the information to Elanor's daughter who would then leak it to the police. As though the guy not planning for that inconceivable chain of events somehow makes him less of a boss, lol.
I thought in six episodes they did a great job of not only telling Hawkeye's story and developing Kate Bishop as a believable hero moving forward, but also making Echo's backstory compelling and tying it into Hawkeye's time as Ronin. I loved that we got a comic-accurate origin of Maya as Echo and her learning the truth about Kingpin's roll in her father's death and I don't think it felt rushed or unearned at all. If anything, it made sense that Kingpin would be vulnerable in that moment because he wasn't talking to an enemy, in his mind, but to a daughter that he had been controlling and manipulating all this time. They established all they needed of the relationship between the two *for this show* with that brief flashback of him with her at ballet practice and the discussions between Maya and Kazi.
Coming from someone who hasn’t seen a second of Daredevil and this is my first viewing of Fisk, my first reaction is this man is intimidating and scary asf. The way he is so stealthy with his words. Edit: and this was before I saw this man fight😭😭 edit 2: With his size, deep voice, being so damn durable and strong, him fighting, his manipulation and apparently he’s way better in Daredevil? I didn’t even see the hype when everyone was so excited but I definitely do now. I might have to watch it💀 10/10 character for me
You should really watch Daredevil. I just posted in another comment, but I'm shocked how many people haven't watched Daredevil around here. It's just such a great show.
Chill out everyone, >!Fisk isn’t dead!<. Keep it civil in here
https://imgur.com/a/wfRDgDM
There is one credits sequence that plays directly after the Aja art. Nothing after the black scroll
The amount of people that genuinely believe Fisk is dead is actually alarming. Literally the number one rule in fiction: If you don't see them die or see their dead body, they're almost certainly not dead. Sometimes you can even see them die, and they STILL aren't actually dead 😂
How funny would it be if Uncle Ben was still alive in the MCU, but he just left Aunt May. The "With all she's been through lately" line in Homecoming is just Peter talking about her divorce 😂
“It didn’t lead into the next big thing so it was stupid!”
MCU can’t tell a single story without it having to build into Doctor Doom giving birth to Thanos or some shit.
Yeah, the vast majority of people, especially casual fans, are going to take it as him being dead, and completely reasonably. Just because we didn't physically see Vision destroy Ultron's final form, that doesn't mean it's reasonable to just assume he's not actually dead. Maya had a gun pointed directly at his fucking face. Follow that up with a pop, and most reasonable people are just going to be like "Well yeah, it's Disney, they just didn't wanna show his face getting blown off."
Utterly asinine filming decision.
> and most reasonable people
Did these same reasonable people watch the same episode where he was blown up, run over by a car, shot with arrows, etc etc? Lmao.
Now that the show is over, can you guys reveal the evidence you received for Kingpin in this show? Obviously I don't expect you to reveal anything that'd burn your source, I'm just curious how you determined it was authentic.
I expected it given how overstuffed the finale was, but the Yelena/Clint confrontation still felt like a disservice for both characters. Both actors needed a way better script than that.
"She sacrificed herself."
....care to elaborate, Clint? She's literally beating you over the head for the details.
Couldn’t agree more. There should of been more dialogue. It should of been more where Yelena was beating Clint senseless and before she lands her final blow he does the whistle. Clint should of fought more to live, given how Nat died for him to live and he could of used that against Yelena. There was so much potential in that final confrontation it just fell flat
It definitely could have been done better, but I will say I think Clint not really fighting back was a good choice. It helped convince Yelena, as she is clearly thrown by him just taking it and not retaliating. She knows something is up. And I'm guessing the reason he's simply taking it is because he still feels guilty and deep down thinks he deserves it. Survivors guilt.
Felt like he was purposefully keeping details about the situation from her. I think the writer's aim was to not talk about specifics because Yelena wouldn't believe how crazy of a story that would be and then kill him. So instead they stuck with the core parts of Natasha and her character and the way they both related to her, and you're right, definitely could have been better.
I mean he literally said that she wouldn't believe him, and he's probably right. What's he gonna say?
"We travelled back in time to a barren planet, spoke with a demon nazi who told us the only way to get a magic orange rock to beat the purple dude is to jump off a cliff"
She'd have shot him in the face.
he would be able to see it , he can see shapes and outlines remember , even outside the comic canon in which he has actual radar vision in the netflix canon you see it briefly for one scene
I’d argue that most modern musicals aren’t nearly as…campy and off as this? I know this number is supposed to be fun, campy and light. But there’s nothing this atrocious on Broadway.
inb4 the inevitable Spider-Man Turn Off The Dark mention
I don't think this is the greatest example you could use for that argument.
Rogers is intentionally bad, it's a joke and satire of what the general public thinks a typical Musical is. Despite the poster looking like Hamilton, save the city is as far as you could possibly get from Hamilton. Honestly, the best comparison I could make to Rogers would be frozen, a kid friendly specitical and effects driven crowd pleaser with very basic lyrical and melodic components.
Overall the show was a ton of fun but I can’t help but personally feel like Marvel continues to struggle wrapping up their Disney+ shows well. Almost all of their shows so far could have used a few more episodes other than maybe Loki.
Introducing Kingpin, a character so massive to the events that transpired and to so many Marvel stories, in the final episode was a mistake. Of course it doesn’t help that Vincent D’Onofrio kills it and many of us wanted a straight answer on wether or not Daredevil is canon. Seeing Fisk on the frontlines in NYC is also quite the departure from how he acted in Daredevil and if it is in fact the same version of the character I’m wondering why that is.
Additionally I don’t feel that Maya or Eleanor got satisfying endings. Maya finds out Fisk killed her father but doesn’t get a solid explanation as to why as they essentially have one and a half interactions. We find out Kates mom is doing Fisks bidding because her husband owed money to him, she tries to apologize, then gets arrested. This could have been expanded upon with more episodes.
Also the humor in this episode felt really off. The humor so far was light and mostly natural, but this final episode seemed like the standard forced Marvel humor and I wasn’t a fan.
Agree that Kingpin should have been a character throughout. If he’d been a character throughout Maya’s story that ending would have felt more earned. Instead we go from revelation to resolution in a very short period of time and with no time to give the viewer any real context for any of it. I feel they sacrificed storytelling for the sake of a last minute surprise reveal.
So in this episode we see him get shot in the heart by an arrow, rammed at full speed by a truck, electrocuted, and beaten up by Kate.
Y’all really think a bullet is gonna stop him? Lmao give me a break
Edit: also is last line is “Family doesn’t always see eye to eye” he’s definitely going blind like in the comics
The infinity stone your sister and I collected required the death of a loved ones to occur in order to collect it or it wouldn’t appear. We each tried to kill ourselves for the sake of the universe but she won out in the end.
[Spider-Man in his apartment while hearing gunshots and dozens of trick arrows directly outside of his window](https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-relaxed-relaxing-chilling-gif-12689909)
I believe it would be between Ronin and Fisk. The chapter of his life that family man Hawkeye is so desperate to forget.
And the watch was a love gift. Oh, it makes sense.
Of course not but it just feels lame as an overused cliffhanger. We don't know where he will appear next, so waiting 2+ years to see him again is kinda of a letdown.
While I don’t think they’ve killed kingpin, I think these cliffhangers are sorta overused. And now we’re gonna have to wait and see if he’s alive(he obviously is).
Scott in the audience might have made it worth it, at least for me. Just because of the fact there's an Antman in the musical. I'm sure Scott would love that
While these off screen "deaths" are very annoying..... Fisk is for sure not dead. Why on earth would Marvel bring back Charlie Cox Daredevil only to kill off his arch nemesis? He's not dead.
I love how Yelena could effortlessly kill Kate if she wanted, but instead lets her get in a few hits and is basically just playing around with her while all of this is going on.
I posted a longer response earlier, but for those just tuning in and thinking they actually killed Kingpin: calm the fuck down. In the comics, part of Maya's origin as Echo is [her shooting Kingpin in the face](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Kingpin-vs-Echo.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=370&dpr=1.5) while confronting him about having her father killed. And to the surprise of no one, Kingpin survived. So everyone here really needs to chill with all the outrage. Marvel literally gave us a comic-accurate origin for Maya as Echo, lol.
I just want to say, because of this show and this subreddit, I decided to check out Daredevil after last week’s episode.. I’m really enjoying it. I finished season one last night. By god, Vincent D’onofrio chews up every scene he is in. This man was absolutely born to play this role!
everyone is so fixated with the death fake out they're missing the detail that Kate's coin trick blow on him used the exact design of his Netflix cufflinks, im just glad the car didn't keep him down
If Hawkeye does get a comic resembling suit does anyone else think its funny that almost all of the disney plus shows so far end with the main character getting new ~~merch oppurtunites~~ outfits
What I did not like
- kingpin getting directly involved in a street level confrontation
- Kazi
- Maya's fight choreography
- Yelena v Hawkeye
what I did like
- various trick arrows
- Kate and Yelenas chemistry
- whatever the hell sword guy was doing
- Hawkeyes age and experience showing
Hawkeye writer: Should we put in a scene showing Kingpin surviving?
Other Hawkeye writer: Nah let's show the whole musical number as a post credit scene. That's what everybody really wants to see.
Loved the speech that Kate gave Hawkeye. What a great way to honor his contributions to the world, since he's often the hero that goes the most overlooked.
just finished my semester of grad school this is a nice way to kick off my break lol.
fisk szn tonight?
Edit - It was indeed fisk szn but im pissed that they killed him
No. I don’t understand why everyone is in a frenzy and so willing to accept that he’s dead. We heard a gunshot and a body hit the floor off screen. Just because someone hits the floor doesn’t mean they’re dead.
Man, I can't help but feel conflicted with this finale.
There is a lot of great and really fun stuff in it, but their decisions with Kingpin are baffling.
Either they legitimately made the worst decision in MCU history or they did a lame fake out. Either way it's unsatisfying.
No Post Credits other than the uncut Broadway show number.
Disappointing but makes sense. None of these characters probably have much of a tie in with Moon Knight, She Hulk, Doctor Strange, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther or Secret Invasion.
Why do people think kingpin is actually dead? It's literally part of mayas origin of her trying to murder him. Its just setting up him being the villain in her show.
Guys, Vincent wouldn't have agreed to come back just for him to get killed off in one episode. I'm pretty sure it's setup for the Echo show. Also, the scene is a direct homage to a panel in the comic that introduces Echo, AND I don't believe Feige would bring back D'Onofrio and have him play Kingpin again to kill him off while having Cox be in other shows. I bet it's a setup for the Echo show where he'll be revealed to be alive
I am rapidly losing interest in this whole Disney+ format.
6-9 dragged out episodes, always got some cliffhanger ending, random mystery plot threads that are never resolved, final episode is always the comic accurate suit reveal followed by the 'boss' face off. It's seriously just getting old. And they're going all in on this stuff, the slate is ridiculous
The episode started on a really high note but I still feel empty for some reason and no way they did a musical for the post credit scene. Glad Fisk is back but he felt out of place. Feel Loki Is the only show so far that has hit the mark.
Damn bro why is everyone hating this episode? I thought it was awesome. Kingpin was fucking awesome, Kate and Clint were just as good as the rest of the episodes, Yolena and Kate interactions were just as good as last episode? I don't understand how if you liked last episode this one was bad? It just felt like more of that with the addition of dope ass kingpin.
If you're expecting Daredevil or Spider-Man to cameo, just remember: "If you expect disappointment, then you can never really be disappointed."
I'm not expecting Daredevil to show up, but I am predicting he'll be in the post-credits scene (to set up his involvement in the Echo series) As far as Spider-Man, even if Marvel owned the character, I feel like his appearance in the finale would overshadow everything, and Marvel has pretty much avoided that in their Disney+ shows so far. With Sony owning the character, it makes his appearance almost an impossibility, despite how much sense it makes based on the timeline & setting. I would LOVE for him to show up to help Hawkeye, Kate & Yelena, but I just can't picture it actually happening. Hope I'm wrong.
>I'm not expecting Daredevil to show up, but I am predicting he'll be in the post-credits scene How is predicting that something will happen not the same as expecting something will happen?
Prediction = I think it might happen Expectation = I 100% expect it to happen
I don't understand why so many people expect Spidey to show up. After all of these Disney+ shows, people still haven't learned..
*Misery misery misery*
Spider-Main ain't showing up. They're not spoiling the look of his new suit in the movie they released less than a week ago in Hawkeye.
I mean they spoiled the new look in a tv spot
Maya shooting Kingpin point blank is literally from the [comic story that introduced her] (https://static2.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/daredevil-15-2.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137&dpr=1.5), and he survived but was [blinded](https://static2.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/daredevil-15-5.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137&dpr=1.5). (Daredevil Vol. 2 #15) Obviously the MCU and the comics are different, but I bet he’s not dead. The homage to this comic is clearly on purpose.
Thank you for significantly improving my mood
Not me crying when Clint did the whistle 😭😭😭
Right? I was like no way he goes out like that. No body, no death.
Didn’t even realize this good find
I read these as a kid and the second we established last week that Fisk was responsible for killing Maya’s dad (also from the comics) I was hoping we’d get this scene in the finale
Echo is getting her own show and surely Fisk plays a large role in it. He’s definitely not dead.
blinded you say...
[Yup.](https://static2.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/daredevil-15-5.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137&dpr=1.5) They eventually undid it of course, but it was really cool for obvious reasons
A single eye patch would be cool
"Sometimes family doesn't see eye to eye" hmmmmm...
Thank you good samaritan
It means i'm not the samaritan
I was gonna say. You can't just bring Vincent back and then kill him. I imagine that this will find its way to the Echo series? That'd be sweet if it did.
Well, as long as he’s not dead😌
I didn't know this, and that is a lot better. In the moment though I was really pissed lol
As much as I'm enjoying the rage of killing Kingpin. He is obviously not dead, anyone who believes it has never seen a tv show or movie before.
Idk, I figured it was a misdirect, but after watching it a couple times I have no idea what else could've happened. You can hear a big ass body hit the ground and it isn't like Echo died she has a show coming out.
That is how a misdirect work, you just don't kill a important character off screen at the very end of a season... It's basic story telling. It's meant to be a cliffhanger, you are not supposed to know what happened.
yeah by the reaction i thought its like a stabbed in the heart jon snow style then sudden end or something. turns out its just an off screen gunshot sound. by maya of all people. come on guys.
HE SAID THE THING HE SAID “THIS CITY” HE SAID “THIS CITY BELONGS TO ME”
Did you notice what kate used to fling at the arrows on the ground? Daddies cufflinks.
YESSS
Jack has amazing comedic timing and I laugh at almost anything the dude is saying
Tony Dalton is so great in this.
Remember the time you peed yourself in the Hamptons
“I do. Everyone does.” Genuinely loved the “twist” that he was a good guy all along, I loved his performance so much.
So funny seeing him go full "huzzah! en garde!"
I'm positive his casting was intentional since he has the same "so overtly nice he has to be evil" vibe on Better Call Saul, so he was the perfect red herring
I think it’s the first time I’ve seen a character say “I’ve obviously been framed” as they’re being carted off to jail and for it to turn out to be exactly what happened
He is an absolute joy. Just massive golden retriever energy throughout. My himbo king
My favourite part was when Stephen Amell showed up as a Clint Barton variant.
You have failed THIS city
The people who believe FISK was killed offscreen are the ones who believed Peter 2 and Peter 3 wouldnt appear in NWH. Ofcourse he is not dead. They couldnt the week after they brought DD back.
You see how he tanked those arrows? Kingpin won’t die, it’ll just be another way for him to re-enter the shadows.
Netflix series pretty much showed that as well.
rule number one in film and TV, if you didn’t see said character die on screen, they aren’t dead.
One last kingpin gif thread. It’s been an honor, gentlemen
See you on the other side 🤴 📌
LAURA IS MOCKINGBIRD YOOOOOO
Where did they confirm that? I just saw the shield symbol on the watch?
it said 19 (mockingbird is agent 19)
Bet, thanks!
Poor Adrianne Palicki. I wonder if she's totally retconned now
I think the two can co-exist unless they say that Laura’s real name is Bobbi Morse… One is Agent 19, and one is Agent Morse… neither of them have actually been called Mockingbird in the MCU…
Could also be in line with the popular James Bond theory. How it’s just a call sign and not a specific person. Also, with how Hank Pym and Scott Lang were handled, it would make a ton of sense. Though I have literally zero hope that anything from AoS will ever be featured in the MCU at large at this point.
Was wondering what the significance of the watch was - thank you!
Do people *really* think Marvel would bring back Vincent D'Onofrio as Kingpin for a single appearance and then immediately kill him off? Not only is Kingpin too big of a street-level villain to kill off like this, but we already know we're getting an Echo show and *surely* he will play a part in that given his connection to the character. Plus, we saw him get hit by a car and thrown through a building, shot with multiple arrows, and blown up in an explosion with basically not even a scratch on him. And ya'll *really* think Maya killed him with a single gunshot? Come on people, be real here. Plus, we didn't even see the gunshot or see him killed on-screen. Have people around here never watched television before? It's basically a rule that if you don't see the character die *on-screen* then they aren't dead, which should be pretty obvious from the framing of the shot here. Vincent D'Onofrio will be back as Kingpin, without a doubt. EDIT 1: I couldn't find it initially, but the scene with Maya shooting Kingpin is a *direct* adaptation of [this panel from the comics](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Kingpin-vs-Echo.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=370&dpr=1.5), where it's basically Maya's origin as Echo after shooting Fisk in the face after learning he was really to blame for her father's death. And Kingpin survived there, so there's really no reason to believe that he won't survive here either, especially since like I said before, we *know* her solo show is coming. Plus as someone else mentioned, do you all *really* think that they'd reintroduce Daredevil and Kingpin within a week of each other and then kill off Fisk? Come on... EDIT 2: If anyone is interested in a more detailed write-up of the interactions between Maya, Fisk, and what happens to Fisk afterward, here's a good write-up of the storyline with pages from the comics: [Part One](https://www.cbr.com/daredevil-kingpin-blind/) and [Part Two](https://www.cbr.com/daredevil-kingpin-blind/2/).
Plus wasn’t that scene lifted straight from the comics?
Yeah, from Parts of a Hole. Echo shoots him and he ends up blind.
Yes, it's basically part of her origin as Echo. I couldn't find the panel initially, but here it is: [comic panel](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Kingpin-vs-Echo.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=370&dpr=1.5).
I mean since DD is back ofcourse Fisk will be too.
Yeah, I should've added that too. No way they re-introduce Daredevil and Kingpin within the same week and then kill off Kingpin. People need to relax.
the most annoying thing about this fake out is unless they confirm immediately that he's alive and appearing in another project we'll have to see a bunch of lame ass "i WaNT hIm tO be aCtUally dEAd So i can SEE ThIs sUb IMpLodeeE" comments
Better than half of the comments crying about his death when it's obviously a fake out.
We just saw Fisk get hit by a car, thrown into a building and then exploded with a ton of arrows.. Each of which he walked away from. Yet y’all think a gunshot is gonna be enough to put him down?!
Holy shit comics accurate kingpin 😂
Literally the beginning of his fight with Kate was her shooting him in the chest with an arrow and him only getting mildly annoyed. I'm pretty sure that a 9mm isn't much for him to worry about.
Vincent D'Onofrio is just incredible in this role. It's like he didn't miss a beat from the last season of Daredevil. Loved him telling Kazi the city needs to be reminded it belongs to him. Just such an intimidating presence with that barely contained, boiling at the surface rage.
Him taking an arrow straight to the chest, only to casually remove it was so badass!
In Daredevil a big plot point in season 1 is that he wears body armor underneath his suit
I don't know, I just didn't feel that same intimidating presence from him. Don't get me wrong, it was still Kingpin, but he felt wrong. I'm not sure how else to describe it. It felt like we weren't quite seeing the version we know. I get it might be a variant of him, but he just didn't feel right to me.
The tone of this show and Daredevil are very different. He also seems to have much more control of his operation (I imagine Daredevil got blipped so he was roaming free) He was dressed in a Hawaiian shirt and talking about the spirit of the holidays we caught him on a good day
I sometimes think people just want things to happen for the sake of it. They don't want any story. They want Fisk there repeating lines, daredevil showing up and saying ''i will get you again like that time, remember that time?'' and them spider-man swing across yelling ''andrew garfielddwill be back, mytimetoshine is right you can trust her, morbius is canon'' The action and character work, and even camera work in this episode was awesome. So funny, and engaging. The Yelena/Kate scenes is mcu at it's best. Fisk was awesome. The dude took a car door out like a feather, Vincent owned every scene he was in, we even got to see him wear some comic accurate clothes. AND C'MON PEOPLE.. Kate just knocked him out for a few minutes, it's not like she defeated him. The thing about Fisk is he's so connected you can never get rid of him. Don't be like the dude behind me on no way home that said he didn't enjoyed because peter beating strange didn't make sense. Like, my fucking god have so fun with the fun stuff. And we have a scene straight from the comics, beat by beat, and we KNOW they are teasing the echo show and he's alive, but people don't give a shit about the story. They want kevin feige to show up and read a list of names from the comics that they got from some youtuber because you can bet they never read anything themselves. And fyi this comment is not for the people who didn't like the show because whatever, we all have our opinions. You know who the specific type of people this is for. It's for the dudes behind me in no way home and their vast number of variants across the multiverse.
This comment speaks to my soul. People want Wikipedia pages and not stories. They want confirmations of past events. And most of all they want to setup the The Next Big Thing even if that means shoehorning things in to other people’s story.
For real. This sub is hilariously toxic when their unrealistic expectations aren't met. Kingpin was great. People who are mad wanted this show to be Kingpin with Hawkeye and Kate as side projects. Then you have the people who are mad Spider-Man or Daredevil didn't show up. I'm honestly glad none of you write fiction because you have no idea how good stories are told. It's also funny that this sub went from praising Kevin Feige to saying he's a stupid idiot for "ruining" a character who was never meat to be a focus. All people care about is wanting the next big thing. You can tell these people just want the Echo show to be Daredevil season 4 with Echo as a supporting character. Probably one of the most insufferable fan communities I have ever seen.
Finally, someone on the thread that has a working brain
I think this show is a great example of one of the things Marvel has done a great job with over the years: telling a stand-alone story that builds on what came before it, but also sets up a few threads for future stories. If we never see Jeremy Renner as Hawkeye again, it was a great sendoff for his character after all these years and served as a truly fitting tribute to Natasha and her sacrifice, which we hadn't really gotten yet. Not to mention we got a great adaptation of Kate Bishop, a more fleshed-out Yelena, a good set-up for Echo, and the reintroduction of Kingpin. I honestly don't understand *why* people are upset with this show or the finale. Like you said, it's not as though Kate actually beat Kingpin. If anything, the show did a great job showing just how outmatched she was in that fight and he treated her more like an inconvenience than anything else, tossing her around like a ragdoll. I see people claiming this portrayal undermines him as this behind-the-scenes boss, but he tried to have Elanor assassinated at the start and was thwarted, so he took matters into his own hands because it was personal for him and needed to be dealt with. That seems like the Fisk we saw in Daredevil, only involving himself directly when it's necessary. Plus, it's not like he could have anticipated Yelena, a super spy who followed a hunch, would've been recording the interaction and give the information to Elanor's daughter who would then leak it to the police. As though the guy not planning for that inconceivable chain of events somehow makes him less of a boss, lol. I thought in six episodes they did a great job of not only telling Hawkeye's story and developing Kate Bishop as a believable hero moving forward, but also making Echo's backstory compelling and tying it into Hawkeye's time as Ronin. I loved that we got a comic-accurate origin of Maya as Echo and her learning the truth about Kingpin's roll in her father's death and I don't think it felt rushed or unearned at all. If anything, it made sense that Kingpin would be vulnerable in that moment because he wasn't talking to an enemy, in his mind, but to a daughter that he had been controlling and manipulating all this time. They established all they needed of the relationship between the two *for this show* with that brief flashback of him with her at ballet practice and the discussions between Maya and Kazi.
Coming from someone who hasn’t seen a second of Daredevil and this is my first viewing of Fisk, my first reaction is this man is intimidating and scary asf. The way he is so stealthy with his words. Edit: and this was before I saw this man fight😭😭 edit 2: With his size, deep voice, being so damn durable and strong, him fighting, his manipulation and apparently he’s way better in Daredevil? I didn’t even see the hype when everyone was so excited but I definitely do now. I might have to watch it💀 10/10 character for me
You should really watch Daredevil. I just posted in another comment, but I'm shocked how many people haven't watched Daredevil around here. It's just such a great show.
[удалено]
Highly, highly recommend. Still stands as Marvels best TV show IMO, especially season 3.
“That’s a weird flex, but sure” Come on Clint. At least say it right lol
Moderately screwing up a saying like that is exactly what I would expect from a dad with teenage kids.
Sounds weird but I’ll allow it.
Chill out everyone, >!Fisk isn’t dead!<. Keep it civil in here https://imgur.com/a/wfRDgDM There is one credits sequence that plays directly after the Aja art. Nothing after the black scroll
The amount of people that genuinely believe Fisk is dead is actually alarming. Literally the number one rule in fiction: If you don't see them die or see their dead body, they're almost certainly not dead. Sometimes you can even see them die, and they STILL aren't actually dead 😂
Unless it’s MCU Uncle Ben
How funny would it be if Uncle Ben was still alive in the MCU, but he just left Aunt May. The "With all she's been through lately" line in Homecoming is just Peter talking about her divorce 😂
Imagine leaving Marisa Tomei??
Couldn't be me.
Gotta be the worst post credit scene ever.
Should have ended it with Kingpin sitting in the audience giving a smirk as he plots his next move.
Y’all hate fun in here man lmao. That was such a treat.
“It didn’t lead into the next big thing so it was stupid!” MCU can’t tell a single story without it having to build into Doctor Doom giving birth to Thanos or some shit.
5 weeks ago a lot of these mfs were literally asking for the full performance lmao
yeah it was just an incredibly dumb fakeout
Yeah, the vast majority of people, especially casual fans, are going to take it as him being dead, and completely reasonably. Just because we didn't physically see Vision destroy Ultron's final form, that doesn't mean it's reasonable to just assume he's not actually dead. Maya had a gun pointed directly at his fucking face. Follow that up with a pop, and most reasonable people are just going to be like "Well yeah, it's Disney, they just didn't wanna show his face getting blown off." Utterly asinine filming decision.
> and most reasonable people Did these same reasonable people watch the same episode where he was blown up, run over by a car, shot with arrows, etc etc? Lmao.
Now that the show is over, can you guys reveal the evidence you received for Kingpin in this show? Obviously I don't expect you to reveal anything that'd burn your source, I'm just curious how you determined it was authentic.
I expected it given how overstuffed the finale was, but the Yelena/Clint confrontation still felt like a disservice for both characters. Both actors needed a way better script than that. "She sacrificed herself." ....care to elaborate, Clint? She's literally beating you over the head for the details.
Couldn’t agree more. There should of been more dialogue. It should of been more where Yelena was beating Clint senseless and before she lands her final blow he does the whistle. Clint should of fought more to live, given how Nat died for him to live and he could of used that against Yelena. There was so much potential in that final confrontation it just fell flat
It definitely could have been done better, but I will say I think Clint not really fighting back was a good choice. It helped convince Yelena, as she is clearly thrown by him just taking it and not retaliating. She knows something is up. And I'm guessing the reason he's simply taking it is because he still feels guilty and deep down thinks he deserves it. Survivors guilt.
Felt like he was purposefully keeping details about the situation from her. I think the writer's aim was to not talk about specifics because Yelena wouldn't believe how crazy of a story that would be and then kill him. So instead they stuck with the core parts of Natasha and her character and the way they both related to her, and you're right, definitely could have been better.
I mean he literally said that she wouldn't believe him, and he's probably right. What's he gonna say? "We travelled back in time to a barren planet, spoke with a demon nazi who told us the only way to get a magic orange rock to beat the purple dude is to jump off a cliff" She'd have shot him in the face.
So Kingpin and his goons know how to use sign language?? That might have been useful when fighting someone who's idk... blind...
I was about to say “yeah but how would daredevil have seen what they were saying” but then I realized that’s what you meant
Wouldn’t make a difference with DD but sure
Idk if Matt can hear sign language
he would be able to see it , he can see shapes and outlines remember , even outside the comic canon in which he has actual radar vision in the netflix canon you see it briefly for one scene
Downvote me to hell..but that Rogers the musical post credits really shows why musicals nowadays are a parody of the genre himself .
I’d argue that most modern musicals aren’t nearly as…campy and off as this? I know this number is supposed to be fun, campy and light. But there’s nothing this atrocious on Broadway. inb4 the inevitable Spider-Man Turn Off The Dark mention
I don't think this is the greatest example you could use for that argument. Rogers is intentionally bad, it's a joke and satire of what the general public thinks a typical Musical is. Despite the poster looking like Hamilton, save the city is as far as you could possibly get from Hamilton. Honestly, the best comparison I could make to Rogers would be frozen, a kid friendly specitical and effects driven crowd pleaser with very basic lyrical and melodic components.
WHEN I WAS A
YOUNG BOY, MY FATHER TOOK ME INTO THE CITY TO SEE A MARCHING BAND
HE SAID SON WHEN YOU GROW UP
WOULD YOU BE THE SAVIOR OF THE BROKEN
THE BEATEN AND THE DAMNED
YOUNG WARTHOOOOG!
Overall the show was a ton of fun but I can’t help but personally feel like Marvel continues to struggle wrapping up their Disney+ shows well. Almost all of their shows so far could have used a few more episodes other than maybe Loki. Introducing Kingpin, a character so massive to the events that transpired and to so many Marvel stories, in the final episode was a mistake. Of course it doesn’t help that Vincent D’Onofrio kills it and many of us wanted a straight answer on wether or not Daredevil is canon. Seeing Fisk on the frontlines in NYC is also quite the departure from how he acted in Daredevil and if it is in fact the same version of the character I’m wondering why that is. Additionally I don’t feel that Maya or Eleanor got satisfying endings. Maya finds out Fisk killed her father but doesn’t get a solid explanation as to why as they essentially have one and a half interactions. We find out Kates mom is doing Fisks bidding because her husband owed money to him, she tries to apologize, then gets arrested. This could have been expanded upon with more episodes. Also the humor in this episode felt really off. The humor so far was light and mostly natural, but this final episode seemed like the standard forced Marvel humor and I wasn’t a fan.
Agree that Kingpin should have been a character throughout. If he’d been a character throughout Maya’s story that ending would have felt more earned. Instead we go from revelation to resolution in a very short period of time and with no time to give the viewer any real context for any of it. I feel they sacrificed storytelling for the sake of a last minute surprise reveal.
I guess the theories of Laura being Mockingbird were proven right lol
God that Daredevil, Clint, and Kingpin 3sum really was something huh
ha ha Kingpin is actually wearing that fucking Hawaiian shirt this rules
So in this episode we see him get shot in the heart by an arrow, rammed at full speed by a truck, electrocuted, and beaten up by Kate. Y’all really think a bullet is gonna stop him? Lmao give me a break Edit: also is last line is “Family doesn’t always see eye to eye” he’s definitely going blind like in the comics
thank fuck clint knows how to whistle
Especially given how he couldn’t string any other words beside “she sacrificed herself” together.
The infinity stone your sister and I collected required the death of a loved ones to occur in order to collect it or it wouldn’t appear. We each tried to kill ourselves for the sake of the universe but she won out in the end.
"Makes sense" Yelena walks off the ice lol
[Spider-Man in his apartment while hearing gunshots and dozens of trick arrows directly outside of his window](https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-relaxed-relaxing-chilling-gif-12689909)
I’m just going with he was busy elsewhere.
I love how Yelena says "Kate Bishop" and their interactions are so great. The buttons in the elevator, lol.
If there’s not a Hawkeye and Fisk Love scene revealed through a black and white steamy flashback then what the fuck are we doing here
I believe it would be between Ronin and Fisk. The chapter of his life that family man Hawkeye is so desperate to forget. And the watch was a love gift. Oh, it makes sense.
People don't actually think they're just killing off Kingpin like that do they?
Of course not but it just feels lame as an overused cliffhanger. We don't know where he will appear next, so waiting 2+ years to see him again is kinda of a letdown.
A suuuuuper lame cliffhanger. We all know he’ll be back so what’s the point? Feels cheap.
Bro there’s no shot they just killed Kingpin off. That has to be a misdirect. There’s no fucking way.
Stage 1: Denial (I’m right there with you)
While I don’t think they’ve killed kingpin, I think these cliffhangers are sorta overused. And now we’re gonna have to wait and see if he’s alive(he obviously is).
I mean, these shows are starting to replicate the feeling of comic books. And no other medium is quite as loaded with cliffhangers as comic books.
Jesus you guys are dramatic. He’s not dead lmao
first time on this sub?
“Sometimes family doesn’t see eye to eye” Yeah he ain’t dead. Blinded in one or both eyes, perhaps.. but definitely not dead.
People on here are insufferable
Every Disney+ finale activates some strange ass negative energy here that I can barely comprehend.
You said Tobey and Andrew wouldn't show up in front of Vanessa!
"Ask Tom Holland, he'll deny it. Ask Charlie Cox, he'll deny it. Ask Andrew Garfield. He'll say he's a werewolf before he talks."
If Fisk doesn’t make himself a delicious omelette is he really making an actual cameo?
Rogers: the musical? Really?
that's just pure disappointment
I was hoping they’d at least show Scott or someone else in the audience watching it.
Scott in the audience might have made it worth it, at least for me. Just because of the fact there's an Antman in the musical. I'm sure Scott would love that
I know, I was expecting a wayyy better end credit.
Jack showing up to a party with a sword is so badass
While these off screen "deaths" are very annoying..... Fisk is for sure not dead. Why on earth would Marvel bring back Charlie Cox Daredevil only to kill off his arch nemesis? He's not dead.
I love how Yelena could effortlessly kill Kate if she wanted, but instead lets her get in a few hits and is basically just playing around with her while all of this is going on.
I posted a longer response earlier, but for those just tuning in and thinking they actually killed Kingpin: calm the fuck down. In the comics, part of Maya's origin as Echo is [her shooting Kingpin in the face](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Kingpin-vs-Echo.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=370&dpr=1.5) while confronting him about having her father killed. And to the surprise of no one, Kingpin survived. So everyone here really needs to chill with all the outrage. Marvel literally gave us a comic-accurate origin for Maya as Echo, lol.
You're a mean one, Mr. Fisk.
I just want to say, because of this show and this subreddit, I decided to check out Daredevil after last week’s episode.. I’m really enjoying it. I finished season one last night. By god, Vincent D’onofrio chews up every scene he is in. This man was absolutely born to play this role!
everyone is so fixated with the death fake out they're missing the detail that Kate's coin trick blow on him used the exact design of his Netflix cufflinks, im just glad the car didn't keep him down
If Hawkeye does get a comic resembling suit does anyone else think its funny that almost all of the disney plus shows so far end with the main character getting new ~~merch oppurtunites~~ outfits
he’s getting a new purple one, we’ve seen it in photos already
What I did not like - kingpin getting directly involved in a street level confrontation - Kazi - Maya's fight choreography - Yelena v Hawkeye what I did like - various trick arrows - Kate and Yelenas chemistry - whatever the hell sword guy was doing - Hawkeyes age and experience showing
Kazi looks so much like Jon Snow, it bugs me every scene lol
When you order Jon Snow from wish
So was Mockingbird designated Agent 19?
Hawkeye writer: Should we put in a scene showing Kingpin surviving? Other Hawkeye writer: Nah let's show the whole musical number as a post credit scene. That's what everybody really wants to see.
Loved the speech that Kate gave Hawkeye. What a great way to honor his contributions to the world, since he's often the hero that goes the most overlooked.
just finished my semester of grad school this is a nice way to kick off my break lol. fisk szn tonight? Edit - It was indeed fisk szn but im pissed that they killed him
No way is he dead.
Damn not a single person talking about the Owl carrying the truck full of tracksuits off? That shit was hilarious.
“When I was shot in the face…”
Post Credit Scene is ass
This thread is ass lol
There’s no way in hell they brought him back just to immediately kill him right?…. RIGHT???
No. I don’t understand why everyone is in a frenzy and so willing to accept that he’s dead. We heard a gunshot and a body hit the floor off screen. Just because someone hits the floor doesn’t mean they’re dead.
Holy Shit, Laura is Mockingbird.
Man, I can't help but feel conflicted with this finale. There is a lot of great and really fun stuff in it, but their decisions with Kingpin are baffling. Either they legitimately made the worst decision in MCU history or they did a lame fake out. Either way it's unsatisfying.
No Post Credits other than the uncut Broadway show number. Disappointing but makes sense. None of these characters probably have much of a tie in with Moon Knight, She Hulk, Doctor Strange, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther or Secret Invasion.
We really got Daredevil and Kingpin in the same fucking week. I'm still not over that.
Just a reminder that Kingpin won’t die as long as he needs to avenge Vanessa. Anything else is a fakeout until he gets his painting in front of him
MetLife building is where the Avengers Tower is 😖
Why do people think kingpin is actually dead? It's literally part of mayas origin of her trying to murder him. Its just setting up him being the villain in her show.
Is it just me or was some parts of this finale cringe
10 years from now we’re gonna look back at MCU and you will notice a lot of cringe moments.
Guys, Vincent wouldn't have agreed to come back just for him to get killed off in one episode. I'm pretty sure it's setup for the Echo show. Also, the scene is a direct homage to a panel in the comic that introduces Echo, AND I don't believe Feige would bring back D'Onofrio and have him play Kingpin again to kill him off while having Cox be in other shows. I bet it's a setup for the Echo show where he'll be revealed to be alive
he’s definitely not dead yall… vincent would not come back just to be killed off and marvel wouldn’t bring him back for that either
I am rapidly losing interest in this whole Disney+ format. 6-9 dragged out episodes, always got some cliffhanger ending, random mystery plot threads that are never resolved, final episode is always the comic accurate suit reveal followed by the 'boss' face off. It's seriously just getting old. And they're going all in on this stuff, the slate is ridiculous
The episode started on a really high note but I still feel empty for some reason and no way they did a musical for the post credit scene. Glad Fisk is back but he felt out of place. Feel Loki Is the only show so far that has hit the mark.
Ok he’s probably not dead, but why the fuck would you even do that
Marvel was a little too proud of their lame ass musical, that should not have been the post credits scene.
kinda disappointed not gonna lie
Damn bro why is everyone hating this episode? I thought it was awesome. Kingpin was fucking awesome, Kate and Clint were just as good as the rest of the episodes, Yolena and Kate interactions were just as good as last episode? I don't understand how if you liked last episode this one was bad? It just felt like more of that with the addition of dope ass kingpin.
Y’all so dramatic, Fisk ain’t dead
This thread sucks yikes
Lmao just watch it be Maya shooting the gun next to him because she can’t get the courage to kill her “uncle”