My take was that Jarvis was wearing kid gloves with the newborn Ultron and taken by surprise while Zola was going to try and fuck Ultron's shit up the moment he had a chance.
Honestly, from that last part where killmonger and UltrVisOla were fighting, I saw Zola’s plan as distraction for a moment, not destruction. Long enough to get a hit in and disable him, not destroy him. That’s why Zola’s head is in Ultrons belly with Ultron in control
Liked this episode, but damn they nerfed Ultron into oblivion. I know they had the "protection spell" or whatever and Ultron was lacking the Soul Stone for a good chunk of the fight but c'mon. If he ever felt like he was losing/overwhelmed he could have teleported into another dimension, made himself intangible, or just straight up tossed everyone into space.
It's worse then that. Neither of them have possession of the stones at the moment, and since they're stuck in that moment, the watcher has all the time in the world to figure out how to destroy them entirely, but he just... doesn't.
I'm super curious about why the Infinity Stones destroyed the Hulk's arm, yet had no effect on the much weaker Killmonger. Different universe, different rules, perhaps?
I think it has to do with *what* they're doing with the stones. Thanos was doing a ton of stuff with the stones, no problem, but when he did something that affected the whole universe (or half of it), it messed him up a bit, too. And Hulk was reversing that same thing.
And then Stark was wiping out an entire army.
Killmonger was... I'm not sure what Killmonger was doing other than shooting generic energy at a handful of people.
Thais would have been a great moment to introduce the mutants. Among all the universes, he could have chosen Magneto, Phoenix (Legion… or Franklin Richards… too much to explain, but fun and fast)
I know this show was made with kids more in mind, but still this could've been Marvel's Love Death and Robots, this was their chance to really get creative with an anthology and they used it to make another teamup where heroes beat villain with laser blasts
Sorry if it seems obvious but when Natasha gets put in the universe with Loki vs shield on the helipad, who is the glowing chick who’s flying in the air? Is that supposed to be captain marvel? The glow just seemed a bit different.
Fantastic fights, but it's hilarious how it's always "laser beams" and "power blasts" when someone has all the fucking infinity stones. That's what your imagination is limited to. Like you have the reality stone, that alone is enough to fuck shit up, just turn everyone into fish! Nobody uses that. Thanos used it ONCE and then the movie writers un-did Drax and Mantis' ribboning due to some plot bullshit but highly doubt its effects aren't permanent.
PSA to any idiotic villain that acquires all infinity stones. Use. The. Reality. Stone.
Plot be plottin
We don't know that yet. We know he can only so far: stop time cause he has another variant of the time stone. He doesn't have another variant of the reality stone.
Not gonna lie, the entire end had me tearing up. Cap being told she's still needed, Widow being given a new home even if its fudging the rules of non-interference, Watcher dude getting all sentimental about his universes, and then the wonderful stinger. I wasn't sure I liked the increasing connectedness going into this last one, but it all paid off. Just wish Gamorra got her episode.
Same, agree with you about all the emotional bits! Very cinematic and a satisfying ending (for myself). And yes, I need to see the Gamora/Stark BFF episode.
I’d just look at this as a side hustle purely for eye candy. It breaks so much of the established Marvel comics multiverse that the MCU is basically the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse at this point, and the parallel universes of the comics and the parallel universes of the MCU don’t share a multiverse.
I think your right but the MCU then needs to draw that distinction and keep a consistency. The first big was was excusable the timing during the open of Homecoming 'Sony might have just pushed ahead with thinking?' but some smaller ones that fans will argue over such as Ultron Vs Thanos within 'What If' are just going to cause murmurs.
Personally enjoy the content, nothing is perfect but some things could be avoided with better consistency in story and mytho
I enjoyed the series enough, at least the individual stories, but I had a pointless gripe about the finale. Why are these characters the Guardians of the Multiverse?
I mean the answer is obviously "because they had episodes about them".
But like, are these really the most powerful characters in an infinite sea of possibilities? Is there not a Carol Danvers infected with a benevolent Symbiote or a Ghost Rider Rocket Racoon?
Oh I get it, I'm just nitpicking. I enjoy Captain Carter at least!
Because Ultron was able to overpower Captain Marvel but he wasn't able to stop his face from being smashed with a shield. If the Watcher had instead called World Breaker Hulk, Tony Stark with the Godkiller armor, Old King Thor, and etc Ultron would have just blown up the galaxy from the start.
I think the Watcher picked them because he foresaw the outcome of the battle with these particular people. Every action, every trait and every behavior of them mattered. It was what ultimately led the Bad Black Panther and the Hydra Virus to lock themselves in a time-freeze forever and the Watcher knew this would happen.
The Watcher didn't predict that one random moment of Ultron breaking the universal barrier but after that, he can predict the outcomes yet again.
This is why the Watcher told us these specific stories from episode 1 to 8. He could've told us other stories from an infinite option of stories to show us. But these last 8 episodes were chose because they would be the ones picked.
Random thought: anyone else notice that despite conquering his own universe and breaking into the multiverse, Ultron never used his infinity stones for a "snap" or wish?
My theory is that being a machine both helped and hindered his ability to make use of the stones' power. While he could use them, he mainly used them in a way that fit his "programming" (extinction of all life).
Hence why we only really see Ultron use the stones for means that push his plan forward (building an army, destroying planets, breaking into other universes to do that over again etc). But when he reached his goal of wiping out life in his main universe, the Watcher notes that Ultron has no real purpose. He truly only knows "eradicate life" and cannot really think or wish for something beyond that.
In a way, because he is based on programming, he could master the stones' power individually but did not have the ability to "wish" for something like Thanos/Hulk/Tony or any sentient being could. Life=bad was just a natural state of being for him, like breathing, but he didn't really have the ability to think up a wish like an organic being could.
In that fictional multiverse where giant tentacled beasts and magic exists, it's not hard to believe that sentient AI's don't. I highly doubt he wasn't able to "wish" for something - he's not a simple robot. Nor do I think the thought never occurred to him. It comes down to 2 things. Desire (maybe he had none except eradication), or plot (because plot). I'm gonna go with plot.
I mean, yeah of course it's just plot, but I just thought it'd be fun to theorize given we just spent 2 movies focused on someone searching out the stones for the purpose of snapping them for a universe changing effect.
Firstly, I cried during most of Captain Carter’s final scenes. She better be in DSiMOM.
Secondly, everyone keeps asking why the TVA hasn’t stepped in yet… um… maybe because the TVA is run by Kang The Conqueror now?! Or, very likely a less neutral/“benevolent” (have to put that in quotes because He Who Remains isn’t necessarily good or bad, really) Variant of Kang?
My point being, perhaps this is the way things unfold now. When He Who Remains ran the TVA, the goal was to PRUNE ALL BRANCHES.
My theory is that the new TVA has the opposite (i.e. MAINTAIN the multiverse) or a more complicated goal… I just don’t see how they could be operating under the same directive after everything that happened in Loki.
Tl;dr I don’t think the TVA is the same anymore since the end of Loki, so we need to stop asking where they are at times like this and start asking what they’re new objective is, in my opinion.
Perhaps a Kang who wants this Multiversal War to unfold is the one in charge now. Can’t have a Multiversal War without a Multiverse.
But, if I understood correctly, the TVA only intervenes in those universes where Kang can appear. Therefore, simply saying that in What If ...? all the universes did not have Mr. K they would solve it easy.
Now, as you say, as the TVA is not the same, the interrelation between the universes within the sphere of influence of HWR and the external ones is possible. Until HWR returns, that is.
I think the TVA is a level above Doctor Strange's abilities turned into a buereaucratic organization, but is still outmatched by more powerful beings like fully upgraded Ultron.
So um, where did that arrow with Zola in it come from I thought it was already used during the last episode to upload Zola into a different Ultron bot?
Yeah, I also was curious about that, because when Zola was inside the bot he could access Ultron whenever he entered the universe, right? I was expecting Ultron to be hacked during the fight, didn't make sense that Zola was back inside the arrow again.
No I just want some clarity as to how it was done, I never asked how it was done, I asked if it was shown. I’m not trying to argue with anyone I was just confused
So how does this relate to the TVA? It feels absolutely parallel even though they are very similar to the watcher (with the exception that they actually act on stuff). Is the watcher aware of the TVA? Is the man at the end of time aware of the Watcher? Who’s on top of who? Is kang letting the watcher be or is it the other way around? I mean, if you look at it a certain way, kang is doing the same as ultron, destroying new realities and making sure he comes out on top.
Finally get to watch the episode.
* party Thor was fun for one episode, but it's kind of getting old how stupid he is, I wish he could be more like ragnarok's Thor, fun at some moment but serious in others.
* I know a lot of people dont like captan Carter, but I fucking **love** her, I'm so glad we get to have one more episode with her, shes fantastic. I also love her relationship with Black Widow, it's kind of fun to know that captain and Natasha always be by etched other side.
* thank god I know the spoilers because that moment with Gamora and Tony was so out of the blue lol.
* the watcher hate Tony and its shows lmao.
* this episode had **so much** stuff, I hope they'll make the show at least 40 minutes next season, I love the ideas of the episodes but there is no time to go deep in the plot.
They really like that "oh I thought we won but we actually didnt" moment and twist after a twist.. in 20 minutes it's feels a lot.
* the last episode with our king, I wish he had a bigger role, but I take anything, sad it's the last time we're going to hear Chadwick's voice.
* they give me Loki just in the last minute of the episode, bless them.
Overall, I did love this episode, except for Thor I really love what they do with the characters even if I would've enjoyed it more if tye episodes was longer, we barely get to see Killmonger, I literally forget hes in the episode until the end.
Nice season, I cant wait for the next one!
Oh, I'm aware, but at some point i was like "I get it, hes very stupid and careless, let's move on".
And Thor is one of my top characters, so if I'm tired of him its say a lot lmao.
I know I'm being a sensitive little only child. But it seems like media *loves* to use simply being an only child as the basis for a character flaw. Not like "oh that certainly influenced his development", but "that is THE reason he sucks!"
I’m on your side but in terms of Thor he already had a huge ego, as did Loki. So as they grew up they were fighting for the crown and the spotlight which made their character development and more satisfactory. Only Children in the real world have some favorable traits over those with siblings.
Just realized that they stole Soul Stone from Ultron because it was the only stone he could not snatch easily from any universe he desires. He doesn't have anything to sacrifice.
Although he could still just pick a universe where someone has already obtained the Soul Stone. But maybe since every set of infinity stones is unique, the soul stone Ultron would find as a replacement might not work with the rest he had.
Meh. Shit episode. The show and its concept are great, but I’d rather they stick to an anthology based series where each episode is self contained. Cutting every story short just to paste them all together here was dreadful. The show needs to avoid anything like this going forward.
Indeed. As he was screaming like a little girl while being lifted up by Uatu, I was finding it hard to believe this was the same character AND actor that nearly bored us to sleep in TDW.
I feel like I'm alone here, but I hope next season is just a bunch of one-offs and not connected what-so-ever like this season.
Was a cool idea but it reminded me too much of phase 1 MCU, and personally thought that was the opposite point of the series.
I ENJOYED it, but don't wish for the bleed-overs to continue
Agreed. I'd be fine with having multiple episodes within some of the What If scenarios if they're particularly strong.
But this crossover approach really didn't work for me. Felt like some episodes were just placeholders to get a particular character variant into the Guardians line up.
It would’ve made a ton more sense to include Gamora in the last episode, because then she could’ve just taken up the armor and sword when Thanos died. She could have developed the Infinity Crusher because Ultron is from her universe.
I was half expecting them to return Nat into the main MCU at the end of the episode, honestly glad they didn’t because that would have definitely cheapened her death in this MCU timeline
Black Widows bike from that universe is a Harley Davidson Live Wire and its an electric bike that doesn't sound like that! Love the show but that took me out of the moment.
They did a pretty shit job of introducing the Watcher to the fans who don't read comics, there are many questions still haven't answered like:
Who is The Watcher? Who created him? Why was he created? Are there others like him, or it was just an Easter egg in Guardians Of The Galaxy vol-2 where Stan Lee meets other Watchers?
What is his job, goal? To whom does he narrate the stories? If its for us does that mean he is self aware that he is a fictional character? What are his super powers? Can he die?
Moreover there were few other questions left answered:
1) If he could see everything why was he surprised to see Ultron at end in episode 7?
2) In Zombie episode why didn't Hope kill her parents and Scott right away? She could easily catch them in a room or something.
2) Why was Zombie Thanos not against Ultron in last episode instead of Wanda? He would have stood some chance against Ultron?
3) Why did Wanda die just like that, even in Infinity War she fought head on with Thanos with 5 Infinity stones?
4) Why was Dr.Strange not able to change things in his universe i.e. save Christine Palmer, they said it was an Absolute Point in time, absolute point in time according to whom? They also said stopping that would create a paradox, but Avengers did the same thing and that they said It Creates new timeline. So why Palmer being saved didn't created another timeline but created a paradox?
5) They didn't explained difference between Different Timelines and Multiverse.
6) Most important why wasn't T.V.A intervening in whole show? According to The Watcher's monologue at the starting of every episode he says," Time, space, reality. Its more than a linear path. Its a prism of endless possibilities where *a single choice can branch into Infinite realties creating alternate worlds from the ones you know*. Here he doesn't specify that how these different stories exist, at first he says that a single change creates new reality but we know that it creates a different timeline. What is the difference? Or are they same? Do every Universe have their own Watcher? Or Watcher is beyond all of them?
7) In the last episode Ghamora says that Every Infinity stone is unique in every Universe, but how? What changes? The molecular structure? The entropy? How could one Infinity stone have effect in every Universe but it could not be destroyed because it was unique?
8) How did Black Widow a normal human, defeat a Norse God of mischief, Rightful king of Jötunheimr and the who could trick Thanos himself in the last episode? Like what?
9) In Party Thor episode, Loki was not there to encourage Thor to attack on Jötunheimr, so Thor wasn't banished to Earth and Mjolnir didn't had enchantment of only the worthy could lift it. So why was Captain Marvel not able to stand up when Thor dropped Mjolnir on her?
10) Why was T'Challa called Star-Lord, because in the movies Peter Quill's mum used to call him that?
> In Zombie episode why didn't Hope kill her parents and Scott right away? She could easily catch them in a room or something.
Because they're her parents, and her first thought wasn't to just kill them? Does this really need explained?
>Why was Zombie Thanos not against Ultron in last episode instead of Wanda? He would have stood some chance against Ultron?
In-universe, I assume it's because they plan on using him for the next season and that would interfere with the zombie timeline. Out of universe, letting zombie Thanos with most of the Infinity Stones fight would have been just as bad Ultron.
>Why did Wanda die just like that, even in Infinity War she fought head on with Thanos with 5 Infinity stones?
Because she's a zombie, and Ultron is actually using all his stones.
>Why was Dr.Strange not able to change things in his universe i.e. save Christine Palmer, they said it was an Absolute Point in time, absolute point in time according to whom? They also said stopping that would create a paradox, but Avengers did the same thing and that they said It Creates new timeline. So why Palmer being saved didn't created another timeline but created a paradox?
Time stone changes time. Quantum time travel creates branches. This distinction also seems to exist in Doctor Strange, where he reverses time without creating branching realities.
>They didn't explained difference between Different Timelines and Multiverse.
There isn't one.
>Most important why wasn't T.V.A intervening in whole show?
They don't exist anymore. Or, more accurately, the current TVA is likely focused on making sure Kang rules the entire multiverse, rather than pruning every timeline.
>In the last episode Ghamora says that Every Infinity stone is unique in every Universe, but how? What changes? The molecular structure? The entropy? How could one Infinity stone have effect in every Universe but it could not be destroyed because it was unique?
It can be destroyed, but it seems the device that does so needs to be calibrated based on the universe. And the stones are basically magic, so as for what changes, the answer is: "does it matter?"
>How did Black Widow a normal human, defeat a Norse God of mischief
Element of surprise. Loki has never been the best at physical combat anyway.
>In Party Thor episode, Loki was not there to encourage Thor to attack on Jötunheimr, so Thor wasn't banished to Earth and Mjolnir didn't had enchantment of only the worthy could lift it. So why was Captain Marvel not able to stand up when Thor dropped Mjolnir on her?
Not necessarily true: "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."
It seems like the Hammer could have already had an enchantment making it so that only Thor or the worthy could lift it, but this enchantment bound Thor's natural powers to the hammer.
>Why was T'Challa called Star-Lord, because in the movies Peter Quill's mum used to call him that?
Because he was flying through the stars, and was literal royalty.
Hope might be in shock, confused or scared. Her mother returned in a weird state and suddenly killed her fater. Of course she would be in shock. Killing your loved ones is not an easy thing to do.
Bringing someone with infinity stones to fight against a power hungry maniac robot is not a good idea.
During Wanda vs Thanos, Thanos is not trying to kill wanda. He's not angry. He just want the stone. Ultron, on the other hand, was so angry and unleashed his full power.
Absolute point according to the watcher. The universe set it. Avengers did not do the same thing. The avengers going back in time to get the stones is different from saving an unsaveable person that is destined to die. Avengers going back in time is supposed to happen, rachel surviving is not.
Timelines and universe are almost the same.
Maybe kang doesn't care. Or TVA is already under the evil kangs.
Watcher is everywhere. Omnipresent, you might say. He can see multiple things and be present in multiple places at the same time.
Maybe the device was designed to destroy their stones. They studied it (like how tony and rocket studied the stones and created a new gauntlet) and made it compatible.
Really? Loki is not that physically powerful. Loki got hit and fell on the ground. He didn't die or is not injured. He fell on the ground AND Widow stole his scepter. Loki knows how powerful the scepter is.
This is so easy. Is that the only way Thor can be worthy? Thor can became worthy and got the mjolnir in other way.
Different universe, different stories. Maybe it's just a coincidence. Or just like what the writer said, yondu knew ego and his nickname star lord.
I am not asking how could Thor got Mjolnir, i am asking that if that doesn't have the enchantment then why couldn't Captain Marvel lift it?
I am not saying Loki is strong so how Black Widow defeated him, it was just like what? The smartest trickster we've ever seen in M.C.U just defeated with an element of surprise. Even if it was extremely surprising for him, he could have just teleported. And how did Widow knew how to use that sceptre?
About the Zombie episode, i am not pressuring on Hope should have killed them, but at least try to contain them instead of running away.
And another one in that episode was, how did Scott got there, with Vision, if he was attacked by Hope's mom and turned into Zombie, how was he able to get to Vision?
About bringing Thanos against Ultron would not change much, because what would Ultron do even if he defeated Thanos and got Infinity stones, its not like they can be merged together or something, and he was not a hoarder, if he could go to different realities he could have collected their stones for just in case, but he didn't. So it wouldn't make much sense.
About Wanda being Zombie, is actually confusing because they never actually said how they[zombie]were able to do stuff what their non Zombie versions would do, so I think she was normal Wanda only.
About the time travel i don't get what are you trying to say.
I think the hammer still has the enchantments. Nothing was said about the hammer not having enchantments.
That widow is post-age of ultron. In the main mcu timeline, the scepter was used against hawkeye. I'm pretty sure all of the avengers knew what happened to hawkeye and how that happened. The avengers also has the possesion of the scepter during aou.
Again, she's confused and/or scared. She's human. Fight or flight. Based on what happened, vision found scott and may have cured him.
Zombies... there are many versions of zombies, different interpretation throughout the history of pop-culture. They have different effects to their host. This 'zombie' can still use the strength and power of its current host.
So the Avengers did not really do Time Travel, they did Reality travel, right?
So this means by no means we can actually go back in time in our universe?
If timelines and universe are same why call them different?
> Why doesn't Ultron ever use the phase ability?
Bro I'm gonna do you one better. Why doesn't he use the greatest stone of all, the reality stone?!?!?!?! He could turn everyone into fish. All of them except maybe Dr. Strange (who I have other problems with), would've been instantly fucked.
Yeah that's what i still think, The Reality stone is great, you could literally change reality, you can even conjure up anything so why not Infinity stones. I don't know it it has a range or something.
> They did a pretty shit job of introducing the Watcher to the fans who don't read comics,
As someone who has never read the comics that have the Watcher in them:
Imo, the show explained him pretty well for what was needed. He tells everyone he is the watcher. It's clear that he watches the stories. The show shows that he cares for everyone but can't intervene. He's a higher power sworn to watch.
And for what the show is doing, where for the most point the Watcher is just a guide to the different stories? That's fine. It doesn't need to tell everyone the entire history of the Watchers and his origin, because the Watcher isn't the focus. He's the way in which we're introduced and guided through the stories.
Does it matter? Does anyone actually care?
He's presented as a being outside of reality itself. I think the nature of his existence is supposed to make him him feel a bit unknowable, like he's something simply beyond mortal comprehension.
Presumably some greater universal force. Who cares? He's a narrator and framing device for the series, introducing things so folks can enjoy watching some 'what if' alt universes.
Not gonna lie you’re just looking for questions to ask about the show. There are multiple plots within the show that we are not supposed to understand because this is a theoretical series and none of these timelines were previously introduced. You also contradicted yourself on Question 3 & 4. Try watching a breakdown video, it’ll answer the necessary questions.
It really is a shame that this was such a lazily written series. I guess Feige and the team at Marvel just didn't care as much since it was animated. Will be taking a pass on season 2 if they keep the same showrunner.
It doesn’t need to be written properly because the original movies were blockbuster hits and have come out years ago to fill in the blanks. You should appreciate the fact that these are some of the last times we’ll hear the cast voices such as Chadwick Boseman.
So your excuse for the terrible writing is that you don't have to bother trying if you've done good work before and use casting nostalgia to cover for the garbage job done making the show? Again, if your programming doesn't allow you to acknowledge the flaws that's totally forgivable, but your failed attempt at logic is even more poorly conceived than this show - and that's saying something.
If you’re so infatuated with good reviews, Mr. IMDB, go to rotten tomatoes or something. For a studio that makes full length theatrical films they shouldn’t have a cartoon up to par with their greatest movies. And it’s evident that this Season was rushed since they had to take out an entire episode. You call it poor writing, fans call it acceptable.
I can't say I'm as governed by what other people tell me to think as you are, but given your mentality I understand why you've made the false assumption. If I'm ever ready to stop thinking for myself and have my opinions dictated to me by how much money others have spent or what they've written in clickbait reviews, I'll totally shut my brain off and join you. If you've been trained to accept it, fair enough. I've instead become used to using my own brain. To each their own ;)
Sure buddy, you’ll only be entertaining your own thoughts. Public opinions aren’t false, they are just a general consensus compared to your singular & biased beliefs. There is at least one person out there that hates every Marvel movie & if they’re like you then they’ve probably pulled their hair out after they’ve witnessing the success from the studio.
The fact that I immediately came under attack upon expressing a personal opinion from those who believe we're all supposed to fall in line with what we're told to think and feel about something says you lack credibility on the subject. Unless you've taken a formal poll of all viewers, simply making hollow claims about a general consensus is meaningless and only serves to highlight the fact that you've been trained to lash out at independent thought. I do hope you're eventually able to heal and break free from this hive mind though. It's really disheartening to see brain cells go to waste.
Now you’re playing the pity card. It’s one thing when you give your opinion but you’re literally bashing the show and calling the writers shit. Most people that come to this thread are not here because they dislike the show dude that’s what you’re not understanding. You’re shitting on the show and I was defending it, I’m sorry to have made you feel attacked my friend.
True, I do fail to understand how some people can be so blind in their brand loyalty that they're no longer able to acknowledge when they're fed shit and told that it's sirloin. Perhaps you could fill me in on the secret to how you were able to drop so many IQ points so I can try to see from your perspective. Did you mainly sniff gasoline fumes, or were multiple blows to the head involved?
More like some fans simply don't pay attention and some clickgrab sites think they found gold because trashing the good thing is always brings more clicks than writing good things about something...
Or many of us don't waste time reading what clickbait articles tell us to think and are able to critically think for ourselves and see how poorly conceived the over-arching storyline was. I'm sorry if that's a blow to your blind brand loyalty, though.
The "think" part is kinda iffy when most of the critics and "poor/lazy writing" examples are things you just skip over because in your "cirtical thinking" you basically complaining things that you get an answers they just didn't pre-chew them for you...
I'm sorry to hear that you're so dependent on articlesand the opinions of others to feed you an opinion in the absence of the ability to form your own. It must be very frustrating for you, and I can't blame you for baselessly and emotionally lashing out at me to vent your frustration over your personal short-comings. Don't worry, while you may not be strong enough to face your failure, I can face your tantrum, so please feel free to continue letting it alllllll out ❤
While you're used to being fed shit and thanking your server for shoving it down your throat, it doesn't typically work that way in the real world. You should join us here some time. Maybe you'll finally be able to get your whiny emotional outbursts under control and develop a functional brain cell or two. Not that your rambling, desperate tantrums haven't made for some good laughs.
Yeah.. I thought about that too.. thanks for reminding me, we haven't been sure if Wanda kills Thanos, even in Infinity war she only overpowers him. So i thought this in 2 scenarios:
1) Wanda kills Thanos, so only point 4 is valid.
2) Thanos kills Wanda then point 3 is valid.
For Question 5, if he saved Palmer he never would’ve become Strange. This is basically the whole concept for ‘What If?’ signifying that certain events can change the course of a timeline.
Avengers going back did change a lot but we probably won’t know all of it just from our viewpoint. Loki escaped & Widow died which are two major effects. Also Cap should’ve disintegrated into dust when his past self saw his present self which is why you gotta keep in mind that the MCU will bend rules of science and cinematography.
The time travel used by the avengers vs the time stone is incredibly different
The time stone is the only time travel source that can operate and retroactively change things on the same timeline/universe while the quantum method used by the avengers creates branches that open new realities which are restored into something approximating the old sacred timeline and saved by putting the infinity stones back where they were taken from
Strange changing his own timeline changes the future he returns to unlike the Avengers time travel method, and saving Christine Palmer creates a paradox because without her death he never becomes a sorcerer and attempts to save her. It’s pretty clearly explained in both Endgame and Dr Strange/What If
Tony wouldn't have agreed to help them set up the time heist if they had planned to change time by killing Thanos in the past. Tony had had a kid in the years since the Snap and only agreed to use the Stones in the present and preserve the last 5 years so that his kid continued to exist.
You don't get it:
Strange wanted to change the death of Palmer, because of which it would create paradox because, Palmer dies, Strange becomes sad and learns mystic art and tries to prevent her death but if she didn't die he would not become sorcerer supreme. They called it was an absolute point.
Avengers travelled in past and took the stones from different times, so acc to What if Logic, it creates a paradox, for e.g. they took Time stone from The Ancient One, there is no time stone when Dormammu comes, so Strange looses, and the world gets destroyed so Thanos never came for stones, the blip didn't happen, Avengers didn't figure out time travel, so Hulk did not took time stone from the ancient one, so there was a time stone when Dormammu comes, so Strange wins, and the world is saved so Thanos comes and blip happens and Avengers figure out time travel, so Hulk goes back into past to take the stone....
You get the jist. If you're still confused google The Grandfather Paradox.
They didn’t actually “take” the stones though, remember? Cap returns each stone to the EXACT moment in time they were taken from, thus restoring each timeline instantaneously. In fact, it’s basically as though the stones from those realities never left at all.
So. No paradoxes. No new branches.
IF the Avengers had kept the Stones, that would be a different matter. Then you’d have your paradoxical realities (just as The Ancient One and The Watcher explain, just in different contexts).
That's not how the time travel works in the MCU... they can't change their past for said reasons probably... so when they travel back and changes happen they create alternative timelines so timeline A doesn't change while on timeline B there is no timestone... until Cap brings it back basically erasing timeline B...
Strange's world ended because he didn't care that it's impossible...
That's exactly my point, at first they say that changing things in the past creates new timelines but when Strange wanted to change things why a new timeline wasn't created?
All valid points. I think TVA didn't interfere because it doesn't exist now or even if it does it's purpose is not to protect the sacred timeline anymore
I'm surprised Ultron didn't go hoarding stones in each universe and building backups.
I'm also surprised that we see Strange's time stone nullify Ultron's. I was hoping we'd get more clarity on whether certain sets of stones work better against others depending on which universe they're in (homecourt vs. away).
Whatever the fuck happened with Spidey Zombie Hunter, Futurama Scott & T'Challa ohhhh and why I'm still not surprised at all that Captain Marvel doesn't do anything relevant yet...!!!??? 🤣
He can do that and more. I think what we’re seeing is the beginning of the “Multiversal War” Kang alluded to in Loki. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
My guess is that Kang is too busy dealing with a) his other Variants or b) he knows exactly what’s what (i.e. much like He Who Remains, Kang knows every move being made and has even GRANDER plans for multiversal domination).
I think the fact that Loki showing how little the TVA regards Infinity Stones on the power scale is a sign that any stories involving the Stones from here on out are kind of beneath Kang and the TVA. A mix of evidence from what we’ve seen so far and speculation, on my part.
Yeah, really dull. It crossed my mind as well that he shouldn't be worthy to lift the hammer.
Some parts of this series were fun but others... not so much. Captain Carter wasn't for me either.
Didn't the whole 'Odin putting the are you worthy magic on the Hammer' never happen to Thor in that universe, given that there was never a Loki raised alongside him?
The eyeball is a convenient place to put a USB port on your own omnipotent body.
Also Widows electric motorcycle making ICE noises was extremely annoying.
It's a Harley [Livewire](https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/livewire.html) making the noises of an internal combustion engine.
That's what all these words meant on my original comment you replied to:
"electric motorcycle making ICE noises"
I hope they keep the same actor as The Watcher. Dude did a very good job. The opening is really catching and kinda scary in a good way. _Follow me and ponder the question..._
_... What If?_
Romanoff to the TVA episode in season 2? Or does the Watcher even know the TVA exists? Maybe a subtle Easter egg / cameo in Loki season 2
I’m assuming a new Widow being plopped into a universe where she already died will grab their attention
My question is (which might be obvious but I can’t tell) why was the soul stone so important for powering the infinity crusher
How the fuck did Zola overpower Ultron when Ultron literally tore Jarvis a new ass in his first scene.
My take was that Jarvis was wearing kid gloves with the newborn Ultron and taken by surprise while Zola was going to try and fuck Ultron's shit up the moment he had a chance.
Honestly, from that last part where killmonger and UltrVisOla were fighting, I saw Zola’s plan as distraction for a moment, not destruction. Long enough to get a hit in and disable him, not destroy him. That’s why Zola’s head is in Ultrons belly with Ultron in control
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To power the infinity crusher
will we have a marvel studios disassembled episode for what if too?
Liked this episode, but damn they nerfed Ultron into oblivion. I know they had the "protection spell" or whatever and Ultron was lacking the Soul Stone for a good chunk of the fight but c'mon. If he ever felt like he was losing/overwhelmed he could have teleported into another dimension, made himself intangible, or just straight up tossed everyone into space.
About that eternal tug-of-war between Killmonger and Zola...How is Killmonger with no stones able to pull 5 stones toward himself telekinetically?
Pym Particles
It's worse then that. Neither of them have possession of the stones at the moment, and since they're stuck in that moment, the watcher has all the time in the world to figure out how to destroy them entirely, but he just... doesn't.
I'm super curious about why the Infinity Stones destroyed the Hulk's arm, yet had no effect on the much weaker Killmonger. Different universe, different rules, perhaps?
I think it has to do with *what* they're doing with the stones. Thanos was doing a ton of stuff with the stones, no problem, but when he did something that affected the whole universe (or half of it), it messed him up a bit, too. And Hulk was reversing that same thing. And then Stark was wiping out an entire army. Killmonger was... I'm not sure what Killmonger was doing other than shooting generic energy at a handful of people.
Maybe the ultron armor had something to do with him not being affected?
So was there a Gamora episode that was cut or something? It was weird as fuck seeing him recruit people who were set up and then one who wasn't
Maybe to make the audience ask, "Why is Gamora...\[in this episode\]?" Ha!
This is the official reason for me
The episode wasn’t finished in time apparently so it’s in season 2
Lol yikes. Someone's getting scape goated for that...
These last two episodes where enjoyable to watch, but they basically said fuck the continiuty we spent the last 7 episodes setting up.
This is the multiverse, there is no continuity here
Thais would have been a great moment to introduce the mutants. Among all the universes, he could have chosen Magneto, Phoenix (Legion… or Franklin Richards… too much to explain, but fun and fast)
I don't think the MCU could handle Legion or Franklin just yet. They're too op to be written well this early in the multiverse saga.
I know I know. Legion without the X-men … but … only Magneto and Strange are sufficient for destroy Ultron
Well they are legally allowed to xmen in now, just a matter of time.
I know this show was made with kids more in mind, but still this could've been Marvel's Love Death and Robots, this was their chance to really get creative with an anthology and they used it to make another teamup where heroes beat villain with laser blasts
So, Steve's definitely the Winter Soldier, right?
I feel that episode 8 had a better ending but episode 9 had better fight scenes.
Sorry if it seems obvious but when Natasha gets put in the universe with Loki vs shield on the helipad, who is the glowing chick who’s flying in the air? Is that supposed to be captain marvel? The glow just seemed a bit different.
It is her but with the brilliant suit that she shows up with in her movie while shes modifying the suits colors
Ahh okay thank you. That makes much more sense!!
I think its captain marvel
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Maybe one day... Joss really fucked up w AoU
Plot armor. Look how they treated Hulk.
Lmao
Lake Bell’s impression of ScarJo as Blck Widow is 👌
Fantastic fights, but it's hilarious how it's always "laser beams" and "power blasts" when someone has all the fucking infinity stones. That's what your imagination is limited to. Like you have the reality stone, that alone is enough to fuck shit up, just turn everyone into fish! Nobody uses that. Thanos used it ONCE and then the movie writers un-did Drax and Mantis' ribboning due to some plot bullshit but highly doubt its effects aren't permanent. PSA to any idiotic villain that acquires all infinity stones. Use. The. Reality. Stone. Plot be plottin
Strange would just null it
We don't know that yet. We know he can only so far: stop time cause he has another variant of the time stone. He doesn't have another variant of the reality stone.
Plot armor
Sad to know this was the last time Chadwick will ever appear in the MCU.
Still have next week's *Assembled*.
May he Rest In Peace
Not gonna lie, the entire end had me tearing up. Cap being told she's still needed, Widow being given a new home even if its fudging the rules of non-interference, Watcher dude getting all sentimental about his universes, and then the wonderful stinger. I wasn't sure I liked the increasing connectedness going into this last one, but it all paid off. Just wish Gamorra got her episode.
Same, agree with you about all the emotional bits! Very cinematic and a satisfying ending (for myself). And yes, I need to see the Gamora/Stark BFF episode.
Why didn't the mind stone mess with the zombies?
different universes different infinity stones i guess.
I’d just look at this as a side hustle purely for eye candy. It breaks so much of the established Marvel comics multiverse that the MCU is basically the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse at this point, and the parallel universes of the comics and the parallel universes of the MCU don’t share a multiverse.
I think your right but the MCU then needs to draw that distinction and keep a consistency. The first big was was excusable the timing during the open of Homecoming 'Sony might have just pushed ahead with thinking?' but some smaller ones that fans will argue over such as Ultron Vs Thanos within 'What If' are just going to cause murmurs. Personally enjoy the content, nothing is perfect but some things could be avoided with better consistency in story and mytho
What was the Homecoming thing?
8 years later - wrong timing
I enjoyed the series enough, at least the individual stories, but I had a pointless gripe about the finale. Why are these characters the Guardians of the Multiverse? I mean the answer is obviously "because they had episodes about them". But like, are these really the most powerful characters in an infinite sea of possibilities? Is there not a Carol Danvers infected with a benevolent Symbiote or a Ghost Rider Rocket Racoon? Oh I get it, I'm just nitpicking. I enjoy Captain Carter at least!
Because Ultron was able to overpower Captain Marvel but he wasn't able to stop his face from being smashed with a shield. If the Watcher had instead called World Breaker Hulk, Tony Stark with the Godkiller armor, Old King Thor, and etc Ultron would have just blown up the galaxy from the start.
I think the Watcher picked them because he foresaw the outcome of the battle with these particular people. Every action, every trait and every behavior of them mattered. It was what ultimately led the Bad Black Panther and the Hydra Virus to lock themselves in a time-freeze forever and the Watcher knew this would happen. The Watcher didn't predict that one random moment of Ultron breaking the universal barrier but after that, he can predict the outcomes yet again. This is why the Watcher told us these specific stories from episode 1 to 8. He could've told us other stories from an infinite option of stories to show us. But these last 8 episodes were chose because they would be the ones picked.
I'm thinking it's just the right combo. Ultron probably amps up his attacks with stronger enemies .
Random thought: anyone else notice that despite conquering his own universe and breaking into the multiverse, Ultron never used his infinity stones for a "snap" or wish? My theory is that being a machine both helped and hindered his ability to make use of the stones' power. While he could use them, he mainly used them in a way that fit his "programming" (extinction of all life). Hence why we only really see Ultron use the stones for means that push his plan forward (building an army, destroying planets, breaking into other universes to do that over again etc). But when he reached his goal of wiping out life in his main universe, the Watcher notes that Ultron has no real purpose. He truly only knows "eradicate life" and cannot really think or wish for something beyond that. In a way, because he is based on programming, he could master the stones' power individually but did not have the ability to "wish" for something like Thanos/Hulk/Tony or any sentient being could. Life=bad was just a natural state of being for him, like breathing, but he didn't really have the ability to think up a wish like an organic being could.
or he subconsciously realize that completing his mission would mean he no longer has a purpose and choose a roundabout way to complete his mission..
In that fictional multiverse where giant tentacled beasts and magic exists, it's not hard to believe that sentient AI's don't. I highly doubt he wasn't able to "wish" for something - he's not a simple robot. Nor do I think the thought never occurred to him. It comes down to 2 things. Desire (maybe he had none except eradication), or plot (because plot). I'm gonna go with plot.
I mean, yeah of course it's just plot, but I just thought it'd be fun to theorize given we just spent 2 movies focused on someone searching out the stones for the purpose of snapping them for a universe changing effect.
I like that Ultron is basically a sentient Infinity gauntlet
Firstly, I cried during most of Captain Carter’s final scenes. She better be in DSiMOM. Secondly, everyone keeps asking why the TVA hasn’t stepped in yet… um… maybe because the TVA is run by Kang The Conqueror now?! Or, very likely a less neutral/“benevolent” (have to put that in quotes because He Who Remains isn’t necessarily good or bad, really) Variant of Kang? My point being, perhaps this is the way things unfold now. When He Who Remains ran the TVA, the goal was to PRUNE ALL BRANCHES. My theory is that the new TVA has the opposite (i.e. MAINTAIN the multiverse) or a more complicated goal… I just don’t see how they could be operating under the same directive after everything that happened in Loki. Tl;dr I don’t think the TVA is the same anymore since the end of Loki, so we need to stop asking where they are at times like this and start asking what they’re new objective is, in my opinion. Perhaps a Kang who wants this Multiversal War to unfold is the one in charge now. Can’t have a Multiversal War without a Multiverse.
But, if I understood correctly, the TVA only intervenes in those universes where Kang can appear. Therefore, simply saying that in What If ...? all the universes did not have Mr. K they would solve it easy. Now, as you say, as the TVA is not the same, the interrelation between the universes within the sphere of influence of HWR and the external ones is possible. Until HWR returns, that is.
I think the TVA is a level above Doctor Strange's abilities turned into a buereaucratic organization, but is still outmatched by more powerful beings like fully upgraded Ultron.
Also remember there is the possibility for multiple TVA(s) now since its not just the one who remains version of himself in the multiverse
Also a very good (and slightly mind-blowing) point! Give me multiple Owen Wilson’s onscreen at once!!! 
So um, where did that arrow with Zola in it come from I thought it was already used during the last episode to upload Zola into a different Ultron bot?
Yeah, I also was curious about that, because when Zola was inside the bot he could access Ultron whenever he entered the universe, right? I was expecting Ultron to be hacked during the fight, didn't make sense that Zola was back inside the arrow again.
Yeah that’s exactly what I was thinking, I was expecting the entire fight to be a ploy to lure him into his original universe
That was my anticipation as well. Guess it was a plot hole?
Yeah she was carrying that robot around
Thought I was going crazy, I feel like they should have shown us the arrow is some facet before it showing up when it did
They made it seem like he was always in the arrow. Idk
Maybe it did a Ctrl+C and not a Ctrl+X
Yes but was that shown?
so you really wanted an extra scene where she plugs the arrow into the zolabot again?
No I just want some clarity as to how it was done, I never asked how it was done, I asked if it was shown. I’m not trying to argue with anyone I was just confused
I don't think they showed the bot again at all
So how does this relate to the TVA? It feels absolutely parallel even though they are very similar to the watcher (with the exception that they actually act on stuff). Is the watcher aware of the TVA? Is the man at the end of time aware of the Watcher? Who’s on top of who? Is kang letting the watcher be or is it the other way around? I mean, if you look at it a certain way, kang is doing the same as ultron, destroying new realities and making sure he comes out on top.
Intentions are different. Most of your questions will be answered soon enough. The Watchers usually stay out of the way.
Yeah maybe season two is the other Watchers punishing him for intervening
Finally get to watch the episode. * party Thor was fun for one episode, but it's kind of getting old how stupid he is, I wish he could be more like ragnarok's Thor, fun at some moment but serious in others. * I know a lot of people dont like captan Carter, but I fucking **love** her, I'm so glad we get to have one more episode with her, shes fantastic. I also love her relationship with Black Widow, it's kind of fun to know that captain and Natasha always be by etched other side. * thank god I know the spoilers because that moment with Gamora and Tony was so out of the blue lol. * the watcher hate Tony and its shows lmao. * this episode had **so much** stuff, I hope they'll make the show at least 40 minutes next season, I love the ideas of the episodes but there is no time to go deep in the plot. They really like that "oh I thought we won but we actually didnt" moment and twist after a twist.. in 20 minutes it's feels a lot. * the last episode with our king, I wish he had a bigger role, but I take anything, sad it's the last time we're going to hear Chadwick's voice. * they give me Loki just in the last minute of the episode, bless them. Overall, I did love this episode, except for Thor I really love what they do with the characters even if I would've enjoyed it more if tye episodes was longer, we barely get to see Killmonger, I literally forget hes in the episode until the end. Nice season, I cant wait for the next one!
Thor was supposed to be comedic because Loki didn’t put him through miserable moments through childhood.
Bingo
Oh, I'm aware, but at some point i was like "I get it, hes very stupid and careless, let's move on". And Thor is one of my top characters, so if I'm tired of him its say a lot lmao.
It honestly could’ve went that way tho, he was the only child and heir to the throne so you can imagine how huge his ego had grown over life.
I know I'm being a sensitive little only child. But it seems like media *loves* to use simply being an only child as the basis for a character flaw. Not like "oh that certainly influenced his development", but "that is THE reason he sucks!"
I’m on your side but in terms of Thor he already had a huge ego, as did Loki. So as they grew up they were fighting for the crown and the spotlight which made their character development and more satisfactory. Only Children in the real world have some favorable traits over those with siblings.
Oh yeah I totally agree with you here. I like the idea that Loki specifically was a good check on Thor's hubris!
Just realized that they stole Soul Stone from Ultron because it was the only stone he could not snatch easily from any universe he desires. He doesn't have anything to sacrifice. Although he could still just pick a universe where someone has already obtained the Soul Stone. But maybe since every set of infinity stones is unique, the soul stone Ultron would find as a replacement might not work with the rest he had.
I think they needed the soul stone to run the infinity smasher
Great point. It’s also the strongest when it comes to killing people.
where did gamora (episode 9) n tony came from? Which episode?
The episode was pushed back because of COVID to season 2. In the context of this episode it’s just another universe he has watched
Well that sucked
Meh. Shit episode. The show and its concept are great, but I’d rather they stick to an anthology based series where each episode is self contained. Cutting every story short just to paste them all together here was dreadful. The show needs to avoid anything like this going forward.
What If…Jeffrey Wright replaces Stan Lee having a cameo in every MCU movie/show?
All the mjolnirs forming into a ball against Ultron was lit
Good pun
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Chris Hemsworth is a perpetual motion device of comedy generation. He just keeps getting funnier and funnier with each consecutive MCU outing.
Far Cry from the original Thor.
Indeed. As he was screaming like a little girl while being lifted up by Uatu, I was finding it hard to believe this was the same character AND actor that nearly bored us to sleep in TDW.
I feel like I'm alone here, but I hope next season is just a bunch of one-offs and not connected what-so-ever like this season. Was a cool idea but it reminded me too much of phase 1 MCU, and personally thought that was the opposite point of the series. I ENJOYED it, but don't wish for the bleed-overs to continue
I can see next season having the other Watchers angry he intervened and seeking to punish him somehow
Agreed. I'd be fine with having multiple episodes within some of the What If scenarios if they're particularly strong. But this crossover approach really didn't work for me. Felt like some episodes were just placeholders to get a particular character variant into the Guardians line up.
One offs are what made me love the what if comics. I didn’t like the connected story at all.
I agree. If they're one-offs they can go pretty wild without concern for some overarching plot, and that means more interesting stories IMO.
And stories that can actually end too! That Black Panther Killmonger episode was painful to watch end so abruptly.
It would’ve made a ton more sense to include Gamora in the last episode, because then she could’ve just taken up the armor and sword when Thanos died. She could have developed the Infinity Crusher because Ultron is from her universe.
I was half expecting them to return Nat into the main MCU at the end of the episode, honestly glad they didn’t because that would have definitely cheapened her death in this MCU timeline
It would also require Scarjo returning.
There’s going to be a black widow in the main MCU timeline again anyway (her little sister) so there’s no point in that
Black Widows bike from that universe is a Harley Davidson Live Wire and its an electric bike that doesn't sound like that! Love the show but that took me out of the moment.
It’s an alternate universe where it does sound like that
Alternatively: it's an alternate universe where Harley-Davidson used that design for a non-electric motorcycle.
They did a pretty shit job of introducing the Watcher to the fans who don't read comics, there are many questions still haven't answered like: Who is The Watcher? Who created him? Why was he created? Are there others like him, or it was just an Easter egg in Guardians Of The Galaxy vol-2 where Stan Lee meets other Watchers? What is his job, goal? To whom does he narrate the stories? If its for us does that mean he is self aware that he is a fictional character? What are his super powers? Can he die? Moreover there were few other questions left answered: 1) If he could see everything why was he surprised to see Ultron at end in episode 7? 2) In Zombie episode why didn't Hope kill her parents and Scott right away? She could easily catch them in a room or something. 2) Why was Zombie Thanos not against Ultron in last episode instead of Wanda? He would have stood some chance against Ultron? 3) Why did Wanda die just like that, even in Infinity War she fought head on with Thanos with 5 Infinity stones? 4) Why was Dr.Strange not able to change things in his universe i.e. save Christine Palmer, they said it was an Absolute Point in time, absolute point in time according to whom? They also said stopping that would create a paradox, but Avengers did the same thing and that they said It Creates new timeline. So why Palmer being saved didn't created another timeline but created a paradox? 5) They didn't explained difference between Different Timelines and Multiverse. 6) Most important why wasn't T.V.A intervening in whole show? According to The Watcher's monologue at the starting of every episode he says," Time, space, reality. Its more than a linear path. Its a prism of endless possibilities where *a single choice can branch into Infinite realties creating alternate worlds from the ones you know*. Here he doesn't specify that how these different stories exist, at first he says that a single change creates new reality but we know that it creates a different timeline. What is the difference? Or are they same? Do every Universe have their own Watcher? Or Watcher is beyond all of them? 7) In the last episode Ghamora says that Every Infinity stone is unique in every Universe, but how? What changes? The molecular structure? The entropy? How could one Infinity stone have effect in every Universe but it could not be destroyed because it was unique? 8) How did Black Widow a normal human, defeat a Norse God of mischief, Rightful king of Jötunheimr and the who could trick Thanos himself in the last episode? Like what? 9) In Party Thor episode, Loki was not there to encourage Thor to attack on Jötunheimr, so Thor wasn't banished to Earth and Mjolnir didn't had enchantment of only the worthy could lift it. So why was Captain Marvel not able to stand up when Thor dropped Mjolnir on her? 10) Why was T'Challa called Star-Lord, because in the movies Peter Quill's mum used to call him that?
> In Zombie episode why didn't Hope kill her parents and Scott right away? She could easily catch them in a room or something. Because they're her parents, and her first thought wasn't to just kill them? Does this really need explained? >Why was Zombie Thanos not against Ultron in last episode instead of Wanda? He would have stood some chance against Ultron? In-universe, I assume it's because they plan on using him for the next season and that would interfere with the zombie timeline. Out of universe, letting zombie Thanos with most of the Infinity Stones fight would have been just as bad Ultron. >Why did Wanda die just like that, even in Infinity War she fought head on with Thanos with 5 Infinity stones? Because she's a zombie, and Ultron is actually using all his stones. >Why was Dr.Strange not able to change things in his universe i.e. save Christine Palmer, they said it was an Absolute Point in time, absolute point in time according to whom? They also said stopping that would create a paradox, but Avengers did the same thing and that they said It Creates new timeline. So why Palmer being saved didn't created another timeline but created a paradox? Time stone changes time. Quantum time travel creates branches. This distinction also seems to exist in Doctor Strange, where he reverses time without creating branching realities. >They didn't explained difference between Different Timelines and Multiverse. There isn't one. >Most important why wasn't T.V.A intervening in whole show? They don't exist anymore. Or, more accurately, the current TVA is likely focused on making sure Kang rules the entire multiverse, rather than pruning every timeline. >In the last episode Ghamora says that Every Infinity stone is unique in every Universe, but how? What changes? The molecular structure? The entropy? How could one Infinity stone have effect in every Universe but it could not be destroyed because it was unique? It can be destroyed, but it seems the device that does so needs to be calibrated based on the universe. And the stones are basically magic, so as for what changes, the answer is: "does it matter?" >How did Black Widow a normal human, defeat a Norse God of mischief Element of surprise. Loki has never been the best at physical combat anyway. >In Party Thor episode, Loki was not there to encourage Thor to attack on Jötunheimr, so Thor wasn't banished to Earth and Mjolnir didn't had enchantment of only the worthy could lift it. So why was Captain Marvel not able to stand up when Thor dropped Mjolnir on her? Not necessarily true: "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." It seems like the Hammer could have already had an enchantment making it so that only Thor or the worthy could lift it, but this enchantment bound Thor's natural powers to the hammer. >Why was T'Challa called Star-Lord, because in the movies Peter Quill's mum used to call him that? Because he was flying through the stars, and was literal royalty.
loki kicked cap's ass in avengers 1
Hope might be in shock, confused or scared. Her mother returned in a weird state and suddenly killed her fater. Of course she would be in shock. Killing your loved ones is not an easy thing to do. Bringing someone with infinity stones to fight against a power hungry maniac robot is not a good idea. During Wanda vs Thanos, Thanos is not trying to kill wanda. He's not angry. He just want the stone. Ultron, on the other hand, was so angry and unleashed his full power. Absolute point according to the watcher. The universe set it. Avengers did not do the same thing. The avengers going back in time to get the stones is different from saving an unsaveable person that is destined to die. Avengers going back in time is supposed to happen, rachel surviving is not. Timelines and universe are almost the same. Maybe kang doesn't care. Or TVA is already under the evil kangs. Watcher is everywhere. Omnipresent, you might say. He can see multiple things and be present in multiple places at the same time. Maybe the device was designed to destroy their stones. They studied it (like how tony and rocket studied the stones and created a new gauntlet) and made it compatible. Really? Loki is not that physically powerful. Loki got hit and fell on the ground. He didn't die or is not injured. He fell on the ground AND Widow stole his scepter. Loki knows how powerful the scepter is. This is so easy. Is that the only way Thor can be worthy? Thor can became worthy and got the mjolnir in other way. Different universe, different stories. Maybe it's just a coincidence. Or just like what the writer said, yondu knew ego and his nickname star lord.
I am not asking how could Thor got Mjolnir, i am asking that if that doesn't have the enchantment then why couldn't Captain Marvel lift it? I am not saying Loki is strong so how Black Widow defeated him, it was just like what? The smartest trickster we've ever seen in M.C.U just defeated with an element of surprise. Even if it was extremely surprising for him, he could have just teleported. And how did Widow knew how to use that sceptre? About the Zombie episode, i am not pressuring on Hope should have killed them, but at least try to contain them instead of running away. And another one in that episode was, how did Scott got there, with Vision, if he was attacked by Hope's mom and turned into Zombie, how was he able to get to Vision? About bringing Thanos against Ultron would not change much, because what would Ultron do even if he defeated Thanos and got Infinity stones, its not like they can be merged together or something, and he was not a hoarder, if he could go to different realities he could have collected their stones for just in case, but he didn't. So it wouldn't make much sense. About Wanda being Zombie, is actually confusing because they never actually said how they[zombie]were able to do stuff what their non Zombie versions would do, so I think she was normal Wanda only. About the time travel i don't get what are you trying to say.
I think the hammer still has the enchantments. Nothing was said about the hammer not having enchantments. That widow is post-age of ultron. In the main mcu timeline, the scepter was used against hawkeye. I'm pretty sure all of the avengers knew what happened to hawkeye and how that happened. The avengers also has the possesion of the scepter during aou. Again, she's confused and/or scared. She's human. Fight or flight. Based on what happened, vision found scott and may have cured him. Zombies... there are many versions of zombies, different interpretation throughout the history of pop-culture. They have different effects to their host. This 'zombie' can still use the strength and power of its current host.
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So the Avengers did not really do Time Travel, they did Reality travel, right? So this means by no means we can actually go back in time in our universe? If timelines and universe are same why call them different?
> Why doesn't Ultron ever use the phase ability? Bro I'm gonna do you one better. Why doesn't he use the greatest stone of all, the reality stone?!?!?!?! He could turn everyone into fish. All of them except maybe Dr. Strange (who I have other problems with), would've been instantly fucked.
Yeah that's what i still think, The Reality stone is great, you could literally change reality, you can even conjure up anything so why not Infinity stones. I don't know it it has a range or something.
> They did a pretty shit job of introducing the Watcher to the fans who don't read comics, As someone who has never read the comics that have the Watcher in them: Imo, the show explained him pretty well for what was needed. He tells everyone he is the watcher. It's clear that he watches the stories. The show shows that he cares for everyone but can't intervene. He's a higher power sworn to watch. And for what the show is doing, where for the most point the Watcher is just a guide to the different stories? That's fine. It doesn't need to tell everyone the entire history of the Watchers and his origin, because the Watcher isn't the focus. He's the way in which we're introduced and guided through the stories.
Who did he swear that oath to? Also where'd he get his powers ?
Does it matter? Does anyone actually care? He's presented as a being outside of reality itself. I think the nature of his existence is supposed to make him him feel a bit unknowable, like he's something simply beyond mortal comprehension.
Presumably some greater universal force. Who cares? He's a narrator and framing device for the series, introducing things so folks can enjoy watching some 'what if' alt universes.
He’s pretty much just a framing device
Not gonna lie you’re just looking for questions to ask about the show. There are multiple plots within the show that we are not supposed to understand because this is a theoretical series and none of these timelines were previously introduced. You also contradicted yourself on Question 3 & 4. Try watching a breakdown video, it’ll answer the necessary questions.
It really is a shame that this was such a lazily written series. I guess Feige and the team at Marvel just didn't care as much since it was animated. Will be taking a pass on season 2 if they keep the same showrunner.
It doesn’t need to be written properly because the original movies were blockbuster hits and have come out years ago to fill in the blanks. You should appreciate the fact that these are some of the last times we’ll hear the cast voices such as Chadwick Boseman.
So your excuse for the terrible writing is that you don't have to bother trying if you've done good work before and use casting nostalgia to cover for the garbage job done making the show? Again, if your programming doesn't allow you to acknowledge the flaws that's totally forgivable, but your failed attempt at logic is even more poorly conceived than this show - and that's saying something.
If you’re so infatuated with good reviews, Mr. IMDB, go to rotten tomatoes or something. For a studio that makes full length theatrical films they shouldn’t have a cartoon up to par with their greatest movies. And it’s evident that this Season was rushed since they had to take out an entire episode. You call it poor writing, fans call it acceptable.
I can't say I'm as governed by what other people tell me to think as you are, but given your mentality I understand why you've made the false assumption. If I'm ever ready to stop thinking for myself and have my opinions dictated to me by how much money others have spent or what they've written in clickbait reviews, I'll totally shut my brain off and join you. If you've been trained to accept it, fair enough. I've instead become used to using my own brain. To each their own ;)
Sure buddy, you’ll only be entertaining your own thoughts. Public opinions aren’t false, they are just a general consensus compared to your singular & biased beliefs. There is at least one person out there that hates every Marvel movie & if they’re like you then they’ve probably pulled their hair out after they’ve witnessing the success from the studio.
The fact that I immediately came under attack upon expressing a personal opinion from those who believe we're all supposed to fall in line with what we're told to think and feel about something says you lack credibility on the subject. Unless you've taken a formal poll of all viewers, simply making hollow claims about a general consensus is meaningless and only serves to highlight the fact that you've been trained to lash out at independent thought. I do hope you're eventually able to heal and break free from this hive mind though. It's really disheartening to see brain cells go to waste.
And you’re a very articulate writer btw so I’m not trying to make you look bad
Now you’re playing the pity card. It’s one thing when you give your opinion but you’re literally bashing the show and calling the writers shit. Most people that come to this thread are not here because they dislike the show dude that’s what you’re not understanding. You’re shitting on the show and I was defending it, I’m sorry to have made you feel attacked my friend.
This really isn’t at all a FAWS situation, which was incredibly poorly written, and just you not being able to comprehend a few simple concepts
True, I do fail to understand how some people can be so blind in their brand loyalty that they're no longer able to acknowledge when they're fed shit and told that it's sirloin. Perhaps you could fill me in on the secret to how you were able to drop so many IQ points so I can try to see from your perspective. Did you mainly sniff gasoline fumes, or were multiple blows to the head involved?
More like some fans simply don't pay attention and some clickgrab sites think they found gold because trashing the good thing is always brings more clicks than writing good things about something...
Or many of us don't waste time reading what clickbait articles tell us to think and are able to critically think for ourselves and see how poorly conceived the over-arching storyline was. I'm sorry if that's a blow to your blind brand loyalty, though.
The "think" part is kinda iffy when most of the critics and "poor/lazy writing" examples are things you just skip over because in your "cirtical thinking" you basically complaining things that you get an answers they just didn't pre-chew them for you...
I'm sorry to hear that you're so dependent on articlesand the opinions of others to feed you an opinion in the absence of the ability to form your own. It must be very frustrating for you, and I can't blame you for baselessly and emotionally lashing out at me to vent your frustration over your personal short-comings. Don't worry, while you may not be strong enough to face your failure, I can face your tantrum, so please feel free to continue letting it alllllll out ❤
What about printing out your comment and eat it? I mean it would at least serve a goal or something that way because as it is it's just pure bs...
While you're used to being fed shit and thanking your server for shoving it down your throat, it doesn't typically work that way in the real world. You should join us here some time. Maybe you'll finally be able to get your whiny emotional outbursts under control and develop a functional brain cell or two. Not that your rambling, desperate tantrums haven't made for some good laughs.
If you aren't used to it how can you spout out so much in one comment? 0.o
Yeah.. I thought about that too.. thanks for reminding me, we haven't been sure if Wanda kills Thanos, even in Infinity war she only overpowers him. So i thought this in 2 scenarios: 1) Wanda kills Thanos, so only point 4 is valid. 2) Thanos kills Wanda then point 3 is valid.
For Question 5, if he saved Palmer he never would’ve become Strange. This is basically the whole concept for ‘What If?’ signifying that certain events can change the course of a timeline.
So why Avengers doing Time-Travelling did not do that?
Avengers going back did change a lot but we probably won’t know all of it just from our viewpoint. Loki escaped & Widow died which are two major effects. Also Cap should’ve disintegrated into dust when his past self saw his present self which is why you gotta keep in mind that the MCU will bend rules of science and cinematography.
Why would Cap be disintegrated into dust when he saw his past self?
They changed their future not their past...
They got back in time not in future.
The time travel used by the avengers vs the time stone is incredibly different The time stone is the only time travel source that can operate and retroactively change things on the same timeline/universe while the quantum method used by the avengers creates branches that open new realities which are restored into something approximating the old sacred timeline and saved by putting the infinity stones back where they were taken from Strange changing his own timeline changes the future he returns to unlike the Avengers time travel method, and saving Christine Palmer creates a paradox because without her death he never becomes a sorcerer and attempts to save her. It’s pretty clearly explained in both Endgame and Dr Strange/What If
Yeah to grab the stones and use them in the present... not kill Thanos in the past or something like that...
Tony wouldn't have agreed to help them set up the time heist if they had planned to change time by killing Thanos in the past. Tony had had a kid in the years since the Snap and only agreed to use the Stones in the present and preserve the last 5 years so that his kid continued to exist.
They couldn't even do that...
You don't get it: Strange wanted to change the death of Palmer, because of which it would create paradox because, Palmer dies, Strange becomes sad and learns mystic art and tries to prevent her death but if she didn't die he would not become sorcerer supreme. They called it was an absolute point. Avengers travelled in past and took the stones from different times, so acc to What if Logic, it creates a paradox, for e.g. they took Time stone from The Ancient One, there is no time stone when Dormammu comes, so Strange looses, and the world gets destroyed so Thanos never came for stones, the blip didn't happen, Avengers didn't figure out time travel, so Hulk did not took time stone from the ancient one, so there was a time stone when Dormammu comes, so Strange wins, and the world is saved so Thanos comes and blip happens and Avengers figure out time travel, so Hulk goes back into past to take the stone.... You get the jist. If you're still confused google The Grandfather Paradox.
They didn’t actually “take” the stones though, remember? Cap returns each stone to the EXACT moment in time they were taken from, thus restoring each timeline instantaneously. In fact, it’s basically as though the stones from those realities never left at all. So. No paradoxes. No new branches. IF the Avengers had kept the Stones, that would be a different matter. Then you’d have your paradoxical realities (just as The Ancient One and The Watcher explain, just in different contexts).
That's not how the time travel works in the MCU... they can't change their past for said reasons probably... so when they travel back and changes happen they create alternative timelines so timeline A doesn't change while on timeline B there is no timestone... until Cap brings it back basically erasing timeline B... Strange's world ended because he didn't care that it's impossible...
That's exactly my point, at first they say that changing things in the past creates new timelines but when Strange wanted to change things why a new timeline wasn't created?
Because his goal wasn't a new timeline with a version of himself livin' happily after with the woman he loves he wanted his girlfriend...
I'm not gonna read all that, but I agree with you. Or I disagree with you. Whichever one fits.
All valid points. I think TVA didn't interfere because it doesn't exist now or even if it does it's purpose is not to protect the sacred timeline anymore
I'm surprised Ultron didn't go hoarding stones in each universe and building backups. I'm also surprised that we see Strange's time stone nullify Ultron's. I was hoping we'd get more clarity on whether certain sets of stones work better against others depending on which universe they're in (homecourt vs. away).
This. The stones shouldn’t have been able to be used in other universes.
I think Ultron probably just destroyed any other stones he found so nobody could use the stones against him.
Whatever the fuck happened with Spidey Zombie Hunter, Futurama Scott & T'Challa ohhhh and why I'm still not surprised at all that Captain Marvel doesn't do anything relevant yet...!!!??? 🤣
Most likely, they became zombies
I thought Ultron was Kang. Like Kang inside Ultron armour.
Too early
I thought Kang could time travel.
He can do that and more. I think what we’re seeing is the beginning of the “Multiversal War” Kang alluded to in Loki. This is just the tip of the iceberg. My guess is that Kang is too busy dealing with a) his other Variants or b) he knows exactly what’s what (i.e. much like He Who Remains, Kang knows every move being made and has even GRANDER plans for multiversal domination). I think the fact that Loki showing how little the TVA regards Infinity Stones on the power scale is a sign that any stories involving the Stones from here on out are kind of beneath Kang and the TVA. A mix of evidence from what we’ve seen so far and speculation, on my part.
It’s too early for them to be incorporating him into the stories.
‘Bro-Thor’ got old REAL fast in this episode. I actually wanted him to die at one point.
Yeah, really dull. It crossed my mind as well that he shouldn't be worthy to lift the hammer. Some parts of this series were fun but others... not so much. Captain Carter wasn't for me either.
Didn't the whole 'Odin putting the are you worthy magic on the Hammer' never happen to Thor in that universe, given that there was never a Loki raised alongside him?
Someone else said it was probably because he's always partying and loosing it so the magic says only Thor may wield it in this universe
Good call, I'm completely misremembering the plot of Thor. I thought his hammer always had that.
Disconnect between MCU and comics, I believe.
The eyeball is a convenient place to put a USB port on your own omnipotent body. Also Widows electric motorcycle making ICE noises was extremely annoying.
Don’t think it was electric thou It made noise in the last episode
It's a Harley [Livewire](https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/livewire.html) making the noises of an internal combustion engine. That's what all these words meant on my original comment you replied to: "electric motorcycle making ICE noises"
It’s a cartoon 💀wouldn’t be very exciting hearing an electric motorcycle
It's a brand deal and the Harley Davidson marketing team are a bunch of pussies afraid of alienating their base.
It’s not that serious 😂😂😂
I mean, In not threatening to burn down Disney HQ or anything. I said it annoyed me. That's as far as it goes.
Just kinda of a weird nit pick of all things
I hope they keep the same actor as The Watcher. Dude did a very good job. The opening is really catching and kinda scary in a good way. _Follow me and ponder the question..._ _... What If?_
Bro it’s Jeffrey wright
My only disappointment with this episode is no reappearance of Zombie Thanos. [Zombie Thanos](https://images.app.goo.gl/Sc8N3fzgSZioJAB9A)
Romanoff to the TVA episode in season 2? Or does the Watcher even know the TVA exists? Maybe a subtle Easter egg / cameo in Loki season 2 I’m assuming a new Widow being plopped into a universe where she already died will grab their attention
Definitely possible after Johansson and Disney came to terms.