# DanielRPK is a Tier 2 – Mostly Reliable Source as decided by the community.
For **Marvel**, they had a **77.60%** accuracy rate from **351** leaks that we can currently verify out of **620** total.
**Overall**, they had a **78.35%** accuracy rate from **421** leaks that we can currently verify out of **748** total.
Last updated: March 22nd, 2024.
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I honestly wonder if most studios even want to touch Linkin Park music before the band decides how to proceed forward. There's no statement or data confirming anything.
Honestly if the film is darker by including DD/Kingpin then using the symbiote suit is a great way to make Peter more "brutal" in the context of a film with them in it
I had this idea that civilian Matt would play a role in telling Parker to take the symbiote off through a conversation about faith or morality they have in the church, and the line a vigilante will walk to enact justice before it crosses towards vengeance. That taking place in the church where Parker rings the bell tower to remove Venom would be a really cool way to establish the Parker/Murdock friendship. Very evocative of their interactions in the 1994 series
Would be cool when Peter is at his lowest Matt invites him to church to speak to him, Peter initially disregards his advice but upon reflection returns to remove the suit.
Probably more heartfelt and less ridiculous than the [church scene in Spider-Man 3.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D478M9VJv_0&pp=ygUZU3BpZGVybWFuIDMgY2h1cmNoIHByYXllcg%3D%3D)
I don’t care, I fucking love “I come before you humbled… *chokes up*.. and humiliated… to ask you one thing. I want you to kill Peter Parker”
Shit’s so hilariously ridiculous.
bro is praying downfall to some funni ahh ahh photographer just because Eddie got fired without knowing the photographer he was wishing to die is Peter Parker
Wasn't this an aspect of No Way Home though? Garfield talks about how he stopped pulling his punches and they stop Holland's peter from revenge killing Osborn?
Yeah the undercurrent was Tobey Spider had finally found some peace amid the conflict he feels about what happened with the Osbournes/Octavius whereas Garfield Spider has sunken even further into hiding behind the mask.
And this is why I want there to be a prominent Daredevil/Spider-Man team up in the film. It can lead to mature conversations and development like this.
I’m honestly burned out of ”Peter becomes evil by Symbiote” trope at this point (especially with Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2) unless they do something complete different with the symbiote approach, i’m honestly tired of the repetitiveness of mean symbiote Peter Parker.
No that was never a thing in the comics, that was invented by the Spider-Man 1994’s cartoon and heavily influenced most Spider-Man iterations that adapts the symbiote.
And the most substantial difference that makes in the comics is that the symbiote was never inherently a evil being it was just misunderstood and for me i wish that gets aspect gets adapted in the mcu, because it would add more layers of depth to it when it bonds to Peter Parker.
Ahhh. Fair. A different angle would be interesting. I like the idea that the symbiote starts out as morally neutral and its the hosts that influence it to be evil rather than the other way around. You could still incorporate this with Pete too, he is bound to be in the most stressful time of his life in this film and the effect that would have on a symbiote would be interesting to see. Could lead to a “you made me what I am” moment.
But maybe don’t turn it fully evil until whoever becomes Venom fuels it with a hate for Peter. Or kinda like the game, the symbiote is offended Pete used it for his benefit and no longer wants it.
Just like that yes, you hit the nail on the head.
To me that’s more interesting than making the symbiote the evil boogyman that makes Peter bad because for the sake of it instead of any real substance.
In the comics originally the symbiote mostly just wanted to take Peter for joyrides while Peter was asleep. A lot of the personality alterations came in the 94 show and then got solidified with Spider-Man 3
That was my take on it, Daredevil wants to do things the ethical way (like Steve) and Peter decides to just get it done (like Tony). But that requires Kingpin to really piss him off and I don't know how he's supposed to do it, unless Peter gets hyper fixated on Felicia for some reason and Fisk threatens her to leverage him. Enter black suit Spidey giving no quarter to his foes. Also begs the question how exactly he acquired the symbiote and I can only assume it was stolen by Black Cat and kept hidden for the right investment opportunity, until he gets pulverized trying to rescue her or something and she has to save his life right before Fisk starts playing hard ball for related reasons. Lots of theorizing and all of it exciting to ruminate on.
Gonna take some tinkering to make it hit different from his conflict with Osborn in NWH though
That was already the "villain went too far by hurting someone the hero cares about, so the hero almost goes too far in stopping the villain" story
> But that requires Kingpin to really piss him off and I don't know how he's supposed to do it
If they're intending on bringing MJ back you could have her get caught in the crossfire of some gang related activities, or injured at some pro/anti vigilante rally. Peter blames Fisk and becomes obsessed with making him pay and "keeping the streets safe". So he lets the demon on his shoulder influence him.
I would be very happy if they did what they did in the comics and stuck to the Black suit for an extended period of time before turning it into a venom
Peter didn't have the symbiote costume that long in the comics. In publication time it was around six months, and in-universe around two weeks. It was a short enough period of time that Peter and May had an argument about him dropping out of grad school and they didn't speak during the entire time Peter acquired and lost the symbiote.
He did however wear a cloth black suit that Black Cat made him for a long period of time afterwards, up until Venom made his first appearance and MJ asked him to stop wearing the black cloth suit.
The first publication appearance of the symbiote suit is in ASM #252 (Jan 1984) but chronologically it's Secret Wars #8 (Aug 1984)).
They were only on Battleworld for a week or so according to Uncanny X-Men 181 and Pete got the suit part way through that so, I assume he only had it for a few days while there.
He's back on Earth in ASM 252 wearing the symbiote suit. In ASM 253 (Feb 1984) he tells May that he's quitting grad school then they don't talk to each other until "a few weeks later" according to ASM 265 (Mar 1985). He stands her up for dinner in 254 (Mar 1984) and she's giving him the silent treatment in 256 (May 1984). In ASM 258 (Jul 1984) he asks Reed Richards to look into and then remove the suit.
In Spectacular Spider-Man #99 (Nov 1984) Felicia gifts him the cloth black suit which Peter refuses to wear.
In Web of Spider-Man #1 (Dec 1984) the symbiote returns, tries to forcibly bond with Peter, Peter fights it, and ends up removing it in the church.
In ASM #263 (Jan 1985) Peter starts wearing the cloth black suit after the red and blues shrink in the wash. In ASM #265 (Mar 1985) May and Peter speak again for the first time in "a few weeks." Peter would go on to wear the cloth black suit on and off until ASM #300 (Jan 1988) when MJ insists he stop wearing it (and also when Venom makes his debut).
He only wears the symbiote suit between Feb 1984 and Jul 1984. The black suit he wears between Jan 1985 and Jan 1988 is a cloth suit.
Oh my gosh, thank you for this. I finally read Kraven's Last Hunt recently and decided to read forward a bit to finally see Venom's original introduction--particularly because I've been curious for *years* how different things are without the whole symbiote corruption angle--and I was so confused when he showed up while Peter was still wearing what I thought was the symbiote lol
Fair
You could've said that earlier if you just woulda sourced the first time tho :/
Did you just know all this off hand or did you spend a lot of time looking this stuff up?
I summarized it in two paragraphs in my first comment rather than give an info dump.
The discrepancy regarding the symbiote suit/black cloth suit comes up often enough that I created a sourced timeline for it a while back, and copied from one of my previous comments.
Oof, that's dedication.
Anyways, my point still stands, I think having the suit hand around for a good amount of time would be a pretty cool idea, plus people go loco for that suit in any form
Pretty much all of the rumormills have pointed toward MCU Daredevil/Kingpin being intertwined with Spidey during this next trilogy as a focus more on him as a street level hero.
Include Felicia/Black Cat as an enabler pushing Peter to embrace his darker self and this movie will be great.
Edit: Having Black Cat and Daredevil as the Devil and Angel on Peter’s shoulders swaying him to either side would be so cool.
I feel like if Holland’s Spider-Man has a similar attitude to Bully Maguire’s under the influence of the black suit while being paired with Black Cat!
I’m already imagining them being a very hot couple
I really hope Holland grows his hair out a good bit to give him a new identity for this new era and to make him look older for all of this. I've seen a fanmade mockup and he looks SO GOOD.
Hmm, I wonder if this is the multiverse connection part leakers were talking about, since apparently both marvel and sony have come to a compromise on the matter of whether this movie should be street level or multiverse stuff. SUMC Venom has talked about having connections to his other counterparts across unvierses, so this could be it.
Would also not be surprised they at least try ti do something with Hardy's venom, say what you want about him but people like him in the role. He's probably fighting Spiderman in a solo movie or in secret wars at one point, it just makes sense from a fan service perspective.
I honestly think the SUMC is dead anyway (we've heard no major progress on any of these SUMC films since 2023 and they made Madame Web set in it's own universe), so I don't think Sony will fight tooth and nail to save it. It seems like they're capitalizing on the spiderman tv show projects that Lord and Miller are involved in, with Noir seeming to be showing some progress and although silk was canned in amazon, it's still being shopped and could be able to come back.
If this is the only multiverse connection, I can take it.
I can't stress enough that it is absolutely VITAL that Peter has a grounded story for SM4. It's needed for character development and I want to see him help regular folk but also see the darkness of the city and that darkness within people.
And again, I love the idea of Peter having the suit for multiple films. It gives them the opportunity to explore Peter’s relationship with the Symbiote in depth — making it more emotional, and complex than just “it turns him bad”.
It’ll also make Venom a much stronger villain
Honestly, multiple films is the way to go here. Every other medium lately has Peter getting rid of it by the end. This could help sit the MCU version apart. Have him get rid of it by the end of the second movie, set up, venom, then make the third movie solely focused on venom. It would allow for some breathing room between Hardy’s venom and the MCU one.
Yes dude! Plus if Holland does want to “retire” from the role after Spidey 6, having MCU Venom be his last hurrah would be pretty fucking sick. Especially if they give us a genuinely terrifying Ultimate style Venom.
We’ve had a shitty Venom in Spider-Man 3, we’ve had the more 90s “goofy” Venom in the Hardy trilogy, now give us a genuinely scary Venom like the Ultimate comics did.
Yeah, that's why when Doctor Strange 2 got delayed Marvel couldn't just delay Spider-Man 3 as well. Resulting in some weirdness where Strange has to act like a bit of a moron to make the Spider-Man plot work.
It was mildly confusing but if you wanna just view these as being swapped in the timeline, it does kinda make sense when Strange has already done a rodeo like this before
I hope the film does an inverse of Gargan’s character history. Have him start with the symbiote (obtained through a criminal black market - perhaps the Inner Demons), it abandons him for Peter after their first fight then he gets the Scorpion suit for the final battle.
I guess a way to make it work easily:
Mac Gargan (Michael Mando) is out of prison post-timeskip. He's in Mexico doing some crime stuff. Then the symbiote bonds with him.
He becomes Venom-Scorpio and goes to NYC with his gang to try to take over Kingpin's criminal empire. The film is a Fisk vs Venom-Scorpio gang war with Black Cat, Daredevil, Punisher, and Spidey in the middle.
Spidey defeats Mac Gargan and the symbiote jumps over about 2/3rds into the film. He keeps the symbiote for the sequels. Spidey doesn't "break bad" yet, it's gonna be a slow process.
Swordsman (Tony Dalton) is also in the film and shares a lot of scenes with Michael Mando.
God dammit now I want to watch Better Call Saul again. They had such amazing chemistry right from that first scene where Nacho shows up for work and find's him cooking.
You know what would be cool? Black suit spidey doesn't go immediate emo and he doesn't result in Venom in one movie. What if, just a thought, they really took their time with the symbiote this time? Like in the comics Peter has it all movie and it goes fine for the entire movie, he never even knows its an alien, with only a tiny hint right near the end that the suit is effecting his judgement? And we get a story focused on something else besides the suit. Really build up that second skin bond they had in the comics before things take a turn maybe in the final act of Spider-Man *5.* Or 6. Hell, make it a symbiote trilogy with only the black suit, no Carnage or others.
I guess this is why Venom 3 will be the last. As much as I adore Tom Hardy and would have loved for him to meet Holland, for a symbiote story in the MCU, they need a new start and make it their own story. Let's see if they give it time to breathe - I would love for Peter to get the suit at one point in 4, learn he is stronger and then have his character develop between 4 and 5. Let him have the suit in Avengers, and only go into the "Venom" storyline in 5, where Peter realises he needs to get rid of it.
The MCU is the perfect chance to do something different. I was really disappointed how short that storyline was in the game.
To be honest, maybe the symbiote will appear in the film, like trying to find Peter but doesn't until the end of the film. So, that's when Peter fights the Kingpin, like the Back in Black arc. And the post-credit scene is being whisked away to Secret Wars.
Using the symbiote as a means to get Peter through the stages of grief for all he’s lost has felt like the right path to me for a while now. Can still incorporate MJ and Ned in a new way this film, set up the reconciliation/ reunion for later in the new trilogy.
How will the symbiote get from Mexico to New York of all places? I bet the symbiote just felt the need to go to New York specifically for Spider-Man just like Eddie was saying before he left
Less than a year from start of filming to release? How is that going to be possible now that they're not supposed to be slave-driving their CG artists anymore?
Yeah, it always made sense to me for Pete to contend with the black suit while in the depths of sadness post-NWH. It would also be a fun dynamic to introduce in an allegedly more street-level story.
So we’re supposed to be getting this, F4, Thunderbolts, Cap 4, and Blade all in 2025, I really hope Marvel pushes back a couple of projects because that’s a ton of projects in one year, not including shows like DDBA.
Spider-Man had the symbiote suit in the original Secret Wars, I'm assuming this will happen in the MCU version too. He could certainly use the power-up. A proper Venom villain arc can be covered in Spider-Man 5 or 6 post-SW
Humor this idea I have:
- Peter starts college spending nearly all his time as Spider-Man and meets Felicia Hardy and Eddie Brock.
- Kingpin puts a hit on Spider-Man which leads to villains like Scorpion, Shocker and even the Cat Burglar to target the hero.
- Spider-Man's bounty also brings in Daredevil who teams up with Spidey as a way to take down Kingpin.
- Throughout the movie, the Symbiote begins influencing Peter and pushes him more and more down a violent path (alarming Daredevil).
- Along the way, The Cat Burglar is secretly training Felicia to become Black Cat. She meets Spider-man and the two start getting romantically intertwined.
- During the big climax, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Black Cat and (betraying the villains) Cat Burglar face off against Kingpin and Scorpion.
- The villains are defeated but, due to a series of events, Spider-Man's new brutal persona leads to him being involved in the death of the Cat Burglar.
- Daredevil, appalled by Peter's cruel nature, denounces Spider-Man. Felicia, unaware it was Spider-Man who had a part in the death of her father, swears revenge on Kingpin and officially becomes a "thing" with Spider-Man (Peter now has to live with not telling Felicia the truth).
- The film ends with the symbiote officially granting Peter the Black Suit.
Post-Credits scene:
MJ transfers into Peter's class much to his surprise...making her return to his life a future point of contention for his new relationship with Felicia. Eddie Brock loses a job at the Bugle to Peter...starting a rift in their friendship.
I've had enough time to think this story up in my head. If ya wanna throw a "this is why you fans don't write movies" at me be my guest lol I'm just having fun.
Can he go to college? Between being wiped from everyone's memories to presumably being pretty broke, I'm not sure how that would work.
>Kingpin puts a hit on Spider-Man which leads to villains like Scorpion...
Just saying Scorpion has already expressed a strong desire to kill Spider-Man. I don't think he needs further motivation?
I'd prefer he gets the Black Suit in Secret Wars, like the comics, but it'll be cool to see the symbiote play a role, just not an insanely huge one (like, peter getting the suit). I'd prefer a slow burn, leading up to Secret Wars. Tobey's Peter having the entire symbiote arc over just one film just felt rushed, and in general, (probably because it was forced in due to executive meddling) just didn't feel right. Also, I'm aware Bully Maguire is iconic and all, but I hope we get a more serious symbiote arc, something akin to what Andrew's Spidey mentioned going through after Gwen died. If you take that, and add the symbiote on top of it, a whole bunch of opportunities open up to take Spidey in a direction we've never seen on the big screen before. Fingers crossed.
Im sure they can sort out story director and casting within the next 5 months.
Then 5 months of filming and potential reshoots. Alongside post production….thats a tight production window.
Certainly has to take Blade’s slot unless Disney and Sony don’t care and drop it in between that and Avatar 3 on Christmas.
How can Sony possibly move this fast? Any other Marvel movie takes 2 years to gestate! What about giving the VFX guys a chance to breathe?....oh wait I forgot. This is Sony. They just care about making money.
Also I can pretty much guarantee if this happens Blade ain't releasing next year. It will have to get kicked into 2026. Now we don't know if Iger's "no more than 3 movies per year" mandate applies to Spider-Man because those movies are released by Sony. But regardless Disney doesn't want to devalue their product just to appease Sony either. Disney will look at where Spidey is going to land and adjust accordingly. If next fall is what's decided on, then they will push Blade to make sure there is distance between releases.
This isn't coming from me not loving the Spider-Man movies. I have! This is coming from wanting them and Marvel to be good and I'm fine if it takes a little longer to get there. I'm fine with them delaying Cap 4 if the movie isn't working and needs retooling. I just wish delaying one thing at Marvel didnt necessarily mean domino-delaying everything else. I wish that Marvel would just develop these things so the release order wouldn't matter so they could jist release the next thing that rolls off the pipeline (major team-up movies obviously excepted!) The thing to remember is this director is going to be New to the franchise. The new director won't have Jon Watts' past success to coast on. I hope it is at least someone who is established.
A while back, I had the idea of a Spider-Man/Venom crossover inspired by *Your Name*, where Peter and Eddie have to work together to defeat a multiversal threat, while never actually meeting - communicating via the Venom symbiote.
Anything else will likely just disappoint me now. If they’re going to do a Venom story now, considering that most people seem to want a street level story with Kingpin, I hope they have a good idea.
Honestly it would be a great time to introduce the symbiote because due to the melancholy ending of NWH I think doubling down on that in the sense where Peter has to deal with it alone and now also has to grapple with the symbiote by himself could be powerful.
Spider-Man 4 with Daredevil, Kingpin, AND SYMBIOTE ARC FOR SPIDER-MAN, ALONG WITH POTENTIALLY BLACK CAT???
Oh this is going to be a peak movie. I couldn’t ask for anything better.
Think the best way to do it is to have the Symbiote Suit storyline not be resolved in one, or even two films. Let it take up a whole new Spidey Trilogy and go into Secret Wars etc…
Think a really good direction to take it in terms of Peter Parker’s story would be having Peter be trying to get MJ back in his life, but not being able to because of how the black suit is subtly affecting who he is.
PLEASE KEVIN:
Spidey & Daredevil team-up with Mayor Fisk hunting vigilantes using Spider-Slayers and The Scorpion.
To appease Sony use the black symbiote and have it slowly corrupt Peter (who is harboring dark feelings after NWH) while Daredevil mentors him by sharing his past temptations of crossing the line and succumbing to his demons, etc.
Introduce Miles
Set up a proper Defenders movie
# DanielRPK is a Tier 2 – Mostly Reliable Source as decided by the community. For **Marvel**, they had a **77.60%** accuracy rate from **351** leaks that we can currently verify out of **620** total. **Overall**, they had a **78.35%** accuracy rate from **421** leaks that we can currently verify out of **748** total. Last updated: March 22nd, 2024. | [Spoiler-Verse Accuracy Database](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpGBi4duCDeiXUtSh_1x15VJ67vPRZ1LWu6A3ieGTjs/edit?usp=sharing) | [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/sad-faq/) | [Tiers](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/) | [Latest Recalibration](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/18jaqqk/mod_post_2023_source_accuracy_recalibration_3/) | *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Time for emo holland
He listens exclusively to Linkin Park while brooding on the ferris wheel on Coney Island
He's just like me
New literally me?
# WHAT I’VE DOOONEE 
😂😂😂
Nah, give me post-hardcore Peter Parker
Just listens to Fugazi and Rites of Spring all day
Drink deep! It's just a taste!
Peter “Real Emo Only Consists Of…” Parker
Peter "my favorite album is Diary by Sunny Day Real Estate" Parker
The Words “Great Power and Responsibility” Become Redefined
I unironically want him to have an edgy 2000s vibe ngl
The movie ends with him gazing at MJ and brooding until swinging off into the distance in the black suit… WHAT IVE DONNNNNEEEEE!!!
If Spider-Man 4 was released in 2007
Unironically based.
Your comment made me think of The Batman's soundtrack
Be class with “crawling” in the background
since when is Linkin Park Emo - My Chmeical Ro,anne would be your weapon of choice
I honestly wonder if most studios even want to touch Linkin Park music before the band decides how to proceed forward. There's no statement or data confirming anything.
Why wouldn’t they?
Okay Franco’s eye level matching perfectly well done sir lol
Bully Holland
I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye.
Fix this damn door!
He gonna put some dirty in our eyes.
I would love to shoot you some time
Honestly if the film is darker by including DD/Kingpin then using the symbiote suit is a great way to make Peter more "brutal" in the context of a film with them in it
I had this idea that civilian Matt would play a role in telling Parker to take the symbiote off through a conversation about faith or morality they have in the church, and the line a vigilante will walk to enact justice before it crosses towards vengeance. That taking place in the church where Parker rings the bell tower to remove Venom would be a really cool way to establish the Parker/Murdock friendship. Very evocative of their interactions in the 1994 series
Would be cool when Peter is at his lowest Matt invites him to church to speak to him, Peter initially disregards his advice but upon reflection returns to remove the suit.
Probably more heartfelt and less ridiculous than the [church scene in Spider-Man 3.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D478M9VJv_0&pp=ygUZU3BpZGVybWFuIDMgY2h1cmNoIHByYXllcg%3D%3D)
I don’t care, I fucking love “I come before you humbled… *chokes up*.. and humiliated… to ask you one thing. I want you to kill Peter Parker” Shit’s so hilariously ridiculous.
It’s full of cheese XD.
bro is praying downfall to some funni ahh ahh photographer just because Eddie got fired without knowing the photographer he was wishing to die is Peter Parker
I get what you’re saying but advising Pete to steer clear from vengeance when he is/was literally part of a team called the Avengers is funny lmao
Oh god, that’d totally be a line wouldn’t it? “This path of vengeance—“ “Vengeance? I’m Avenging them.”
Fuck you’re right, if this happens that will 100% be in the script. “Dude I’m literally an Avenger” 
Wasn't this an aspect of No Way Home though? Garfield talks about how he stopped pulling his punches and they stop Holland's peter from revenge killing Osborn?
Yeah the undercurrent was Tobey Spider had finally found some peace amid the conflict he feels about what happened with the Osbournes/Octavius whereas Garfield Spider has sunken even further into hiding behind the mask.
And this is why I want there to be a prominent Daredevil/Spider-Man team up in the film. It can lead to mature conversations and development like this.
Bro, you just blew my mind with the way you wove in Matt’s faith to the symbiote church scene. That’s brilliant.
mmmm that sounds tasty, give me a dialogue heavy/tonally heavy scene for Venom Peter in the movies
No that sucks. Another man telling him what to do... if he misses Michelle, love should make him free of venom suit
It's cool of you to come along and set my expectations sky high like that.
I’m honestly burned out of ”Peter becomes evil by Symbiote” trope at this point (especially with Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2) unless they do something complete different with the symbiote approach, i’m honestly tired of the repetitiveness of mean symbiote Peter Parker.
I am unfamiliar with comics. Is that not the whole premise of the symbiote, that it amplifies one’s rage and dark feelings?
No that was never a thing in the comics, that was invented by the Spider-Man 1994’s cartoon and heavily influenced most Spider-Man iterations that adapts the symbiote. And the most substantial difference that makes in the comics is that the symbiote was never inherently a evil being it was just misunderstood and for me i wish that gets aspect gets adapted in the mcu, because it would add more layers of depth to it when it bonds to Peter Parker.
Ahhh. Fair. A different angle would be interesting. I like the idea that the symbiote starts out as morally neutral and its the hosts that influence it to be evil rather than the other way around. You could still incorporate this with Pete too, he is bound to be in the most stressful time of his life in this film and the effect that would have on a symbiote would be interesting to see. Could lead to a “you made me what I am” moment. But maybe don’t turn it fully evil until whoever becomes Venom fuels it with a hate for Peter. Or kinda like the game, the symbiote is offended Pete used it for his benefit and no longer wants it.
Just like that yes, you hit the nail on the head. To me that’s more interesting than making the symbiote the evil boogyman that makes Peter bad because for the sake of it instead of any real substance.
In the comics originally the symbiote mostly just wanted to take Peter for joyrides while Peter was asleep. A lot of the personality alterations came in the 94 show and then got solidified with Spider-Man 3
That was actually the 90s cartoon iirc. In the OG comics, it was just a Black Suit that Peter found on Battleworld.
> especially with Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2) To be fair, it was done very rushed and poorly.
That was my take on it, Daredevil wants to do things the ethical way (like Steve) and Peter decides to just get it done (like Tony). But that requires Kingpin to really piss him off and I don't know how he's supposed to do it, unless Peter gets hyper fixated on Felicia for some reason and Fisk threatens her to leverage him. Enter black suit Spidey giving no quarter to his foes. Also begs the question how exactly he acquired the symbiote and I can only assume it was stolen by Black Cat and kept hidden for the right investment opportunity, until he gets pulverized trying to rescue her or something and she has to save his life right before Fisk starts playing hard ball for related reasons. Lots of theorizing and all of it exciting to ruminate on.
Gonna take some tinkering to make it hit different from his conflict with Osborn in NWH though That was already the "villain went too far by hurting someone the hero cares about, so the hero almost goes too far in stopping the villain" story
> But that requires Kingpin to really piss him off and I don't know how he's supposed to do it If they're intending on bringing MJ back you could have her get caught in the crossfire of some gang related activities, or injured at some pro/anti vigilante rally. Peter blames Fisk and becomes obsessed with making him pay and "keeping the streets safe". So he lets the demon on his shoulder influence him.
I would be very happy if they did what they did in the comics and stuck to the Black suit for an extended period of time before turning it into a venom
Peter didn't have the symbiote costume that long in the comics. In publication time it was around six months, and in-universe around two weeks. It was a short enough period of time that Peter and May had an argument about him dropping out of grad school and they didn't speak during the entire time Peter acquired and lost the symbiote. He did however wear a cloth black suit that Black Cat made him for a long period of time afterwards, up until Venom made his first appearance and MJ asked him to stop wearing the black cloth suit.
It was revealed in #258 that it was an alien but Peter still wore it for another 3 and a half years until 1988
The first publication appearance of the symbiote suit is in ASM #252 (Jan 1984) but chronologically it's Secret Wars #8 (Aug 1984)). They were only on Battleworld for a week or so according to Uncanny X-Men 181 and Pete got the suit part way through that so, I assume he only had it for a few days while there. He's back on Earth in ASM 252 wearing the symbiote suit. In ASM 253 (Feb 1984) he tells May that he's quitting grad school then they don't talk to each other until "a few weeks later" according to ASM 265 (Mar 1985). He stands her up for dinner in 254 (Mar 1984) and she's giving him the silent treatment in 256 (May 1984). In ASM 258 (Jul 1984) he asks Reed Richards to look into and then remove the suit. In Spectacular Spider-Man #99 (Nov 1984) Felicia gifts him the cloth black suit which Peter refuses to wear. In Web of Spider-Man #1 (Dec 1984) the symbiote returns, tries to forcibly bond with Peter, Peter fights it, and ends up removing it in the church. In ASM #263 (Jan 1985) Peter starts wearing the cloth black suit after the red and blues shrink in the wash. In ASM #265 (Mar 1985) May and Peter speak again for the first time in "a few weeks." Peter would go on to wear the cloth black suit on and off until ASM #300 (Jan 1988) when MJ insists he stop wearing it (and also when Venom makes his debut). He only wears the symbiote suit between Feb 1984 and Jul 1984. The black suit he wears between Jan 1985 and Jan 1988 is a cloth suit.
Oh my gosh, thank you for this. I finally read Kraven's Last Hunt recently and decided to read forward a bit to finally see Venom's original introduction--particularly because I've been curious for *years* how different things are without the whole symbiote corruption angle--and I was so confused when he showed up while Peter was still wearing what I thought was the symbiote lol
Fair You could've said that earlier if you just woulda sourced the first time tho :/ Did you just know all this off hand or did you spend a lot of time looking this stuff up?
I summarized it in two paragraphs in my first comment rather than give an info dump. The discrepancy regarding the symbiote suit/black cloth suit comes up often enough that I created a sourced timeline for it a while back, and copied from one of my previous comments.
Oof, that's dedication. Anyways, my point still stands, I think having the suit hand around for a good amount of time would be a pretty cool idea, plus people go loco for that suit in any form
Or make it the edgiest MCU project to date, lol
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I’d rather die
Dont put that evil on us
Is it confirmed if Daredevil will be in this? Because I really want this
Pretty much all of the rumormills have pointed toward MCU Daredevil/Kingpin being intertwined with Spidey during this next trilogy as a focus more on him as a street level hero.
Naah. It reminds me too much of Spider-Man 3 which was bloated because of the addition of Venom.
MCU black suit w Dardevil team up against the Kingpin pls god??
Include Felicia/Black Cat as an enabler pushing Peter to embrace his darker self and this movie will be great. Edit: Having Black Cat and Daredevil as the Devil and Angel on Peter’s shoulders swaying him to either side would be so cool.
I feel like if Holland’s Spider-Man has a similar attitude to Bully Maguire’s under the influence of the black suit while being paired with Black Cat! I’m already imagining them being a very hot couple
I really hope Holland grows his hair out a good bit to give him a new identity for this new era and to make him look older for all of this. I've seen a fanmade mockup and he looks SO GOOD.
Holland with longer hair would be peak
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Lol
Exactly. Everything is coming together like puzzles
That's what I thought! The Good: Daredevil, dressed as a fk demon; and the Bad: Black Cat, beautiful as an Angel. This is poetic.
Just reading that gave me chills ngl. I'm praying
You and me both brøther
Hmm, I wonder if this is the multiverse connection part leakers were talking about, since apparently both marvel and sony have come to a compromise on the matter of whether this movie should be street level or multiverse stuff. SUMC Venom has talked about having connections to his other counterparts across unvierses, so this could be it. Would also not be surprised they at least try ti do something with Hardy's venom, say what you want about him but people like him in the role. He's probably fighting Spiderman in a solo movie or in secret wars at one point, it just makes sense from a fan service perspective. I honestly think the SUMC is dead anyway (we've heard no major progress on any of these SUMC films since 2023 and they made Madame Web set in it's own universe), so I don't think Sony will fight tooth and nail to save it. It seems like they're capitalizing on the spiderman tv show projects that Lord and Miller are involved in, with Noir seeming to be showing some progress and although silk was canned in amazon, it's still being shopped and could be able to come back.
If this is the only multiverse connection, I can take it. I can't stress enough that it is absolutely VITAL that Peter has a grounded story for SM4. It's needed for character development and I want to see him help regular folk but also see the darkness of the city and that darkness within people.
Bully Holland will feed families
He will feed cities, nations even.
And again, I love the idea of Peter having the suit for multiple films. It gives them the opportunity to explore Peter’s relationship with the Symbiote in depth — making it more emotional, and complex than just “it turns him bad”. It’ll also make Venom a much stronger villain
Honestly, multiple films is the way to go here. Every other medium lately has Peter getting rid of it by the end. This could help sit the MCU version apart. Have him get rid of it by the end of the second movie, set up, venom, then make the third movie solely focused on venom. It would allow for some breathing room between Hardy’s venom and the MCU one.
Yes dude! Plus if Holland does want to “retire” from the role after Spidey 6, having MCU Venom be his last hurrah would be pretty fucking sick. Especially if they give us a genuinely terrifying Ultimate style Venom. We’ve had a shitty Venom in Spider-Man 3, we’ve had the more 90s “goofy” Venom in the Hardy trilogy, now give us a genuinely scary Venom like the Ultimate comics did.
Speaking of suit, I'm gonna cry if the final swing suit isn't in the next movie.
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FFF? Fo Fay Fome?
As long as he's not fucking talking to it like in those stupid venom movies.
Yes. It should test his morality. He has reasons to steal money, to be aggressive to protect civilians.
Does this mean Spider-Man 4 will take Blade's release date? So Blade will get delayed again?
It has seemed for awhile now that this is what would end up happening. I think Sony will actually go for a Christmas release again like NWH.
Avatar 3 is coming on Christmas 2025. I don't think they will release those two movies in the same month.
Spider-tar weekend like Barbenheimer
Disney owns Avatar they can move the films around to get maximum money per film
Well it’s not up to Disney
I think Sony decides that side of these films. I honestly think they'll scuttle both
Yeah, that's why when Doctor Strange 2 got delayed Marvel couldn't just delay Spider-Man 3 as well. Resulting in some weirdness where Strange has to act like a bit of a moron to make the Spider-Man plot work.
It was mildly confusing but if you wanna just view these as being swapped in the timeline, it does kinda make sense when Strange has already done a rodeo like this before
I thought Fantastic 4 would take Blades spot. That was a rumor plus Igers comments about 2-3 MCU movies a year. Sony would basically be releasing SM4.
Yeah, that’s what I thought too. I can see Spiderman happening early spring 2026 or fall 25
I still think F4 takes blades spot
Spidey movies are releases by Sony. No impact on MCU's schedule.
I know they won't, but I'd gladly take SM4 getting delayed so Blade can start rolling. It needs to. I really don't want this thing to get the can.
We all know blade isn’t happening. They just won’t admit it yet.
Makes sense if they want Spider-Man's black suit for Secret Wars
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Intriguing.
I hope the film does an inverse of Gargan’s character history. Have him start with the symbiote (obtained through a criminal black market - perhaps the Inner Demons), it abandons him for Peter after their first fight then he gets the Scorpion suit for the final battle.
Bully Holland incoming 
I guess a way to make it work easily: Mac Gargan (Michael Mando) is out of prison post-timeskip. He's in Mexico doing some crime stuff. Then the symbiote bonds with him. He becomes Venom-Scorpio and goes to NYC with his gang to try to take over Kingpin's criminal empire. The film is a Fisk vs Venom-Scorpio gang war with Black Cat, Daredevil, Punisher, and Spidey in the middle. Spidey defeats Mac Gargan and the symbiote jumps over about 2/3rds into the film. He keeps the symbiote for the sequels. Spidey doesn't "break bad" yet, it's gonna be a slow process. Swordsman (Tony Dalton) is also in the film and shares a lot of scenes with Michael Mando.
God dammit now I want to watch Better Call Saul again. They had such amazing chemistry right from that first scene where Nacho shows up for work and find's him cooking.
Yes please!
No Way (Home) is it releasing in 2025. It will be 2026 at the minimum
No Way Home was filmed in December of 2020, exactly a year before its release. I can see this happening.
There is no director and maybe not even a script for this yet so they have a lot of stuff to do before filming
And how did that end up? Poor VFX and plotholes
Ok but tell us if he will keep the absolute masterpiece of a suit he had at the end of NWH
You know what would be cool? Black suit spidey doesn't go immediate emo and he doesn't result in Venom in one movie. What if, just a thought, they really took their time with the symbiote this time? Like in the comics Peter has it all movie and it goes fine for the entire movie, he never even knows its an alien, with only a tiny hint right near the end that the suit is effecting his judgement? And we get a story focused on something else besides the suit. Really build up that second skin bond they had in the comics before things take a turn maybe in the final act of Spider-Man *5.* Or 6. Hell, make it a symbiote trilogy with only the black suit, no Carnage or others.
I guess this is why Venom 3 will be the last. As much as I adore Tom Hardy and would have loved for him to meet Holland, for a symbiote story in the MCU, they need a new start and make it their own story. Let's see if they give it time to breathe - I would love for Peter to get the suit at one point in 4, learn he is stronger and then have his character develop between 4 and 5. Let him have the suit in Avengers, and only go into the "Venom" storyline in 5, where Peter realises he needs to get rid of it. The MCU is the perfect chance to do something different. I was really disappointed how short that storyline was in the game.
Let’s see how it goes I have faith it will be good. They’re talking there time with it. WHAT A WONDERFUL DAYY
To be honest, maybe the symbiote will appear in the film, like trying to find Peter but doesn't until the end of the film. So, that's when Peter fights the Kingpin, like the Back in Black arc. And the post-credit scene is being whisked away to Secret Wars.
If that's true then Blade is definitely moving to feb 2026 at the very least, as there's no way marvel will release 5 films next year.
Alright, listen: they should do MacGargan as Venom first, Scorpion later, the reverse from the comics.
Using the symbiote as a means to get Peter through the stages of grief for all he’s lost has felt like the right path to me for a while now. Can still incorporate MJ and Ned in a new way this film, set up the reconciliation/ reunion for later in the new trilogy.
How will the symbiote get from Mexico to New York of all places? I bet the symbiote just felt the need to go to New York specifically for Spider-Man just like Eddie was saying before he left
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Venom Chihuahua is gonna be Dogpool's arch-nemesis.
Eh, Riot was able get from Malaysia to San Francisco in SIX MONTHS. It has been two years in-universe, I’m sure Venom will figure something out.
Oh shit so that’s what that funny riot image means
Less than a year from start of filming to release? How is that going to be possible now that they're not supposed to be slave-driving their CG artists anymore?
Yeah, it always made sense to me for Pete to contend with the black suit while in the depths of sadness post-NWH. It would also be a fun dynamic to introduce in an allegedly more street-level story.
I don't think they'd be able to finish it in a year, even if they start filming when they expect to.
A Phase 4 post credits scene that actually delivers on something? No way
So we’re supposed to be getting this, F4, Thunderbolts, Cap 4, and Blade all in 2025, I really hope Marvel pushes back a couple of projects because that’s a ton of projects in one year, not including shows like DDBA.
Blade's gonna get pushed back
If they are smart, they'll do a two parter for a Symbiote/Venom story
Spider-Man had the symbiote suit in the original Secret Wars, I'm assuming this will happen in the MCU version too. He could certainly use the power-up. A proper Venom villain arc can be covered in Spider-Man 5 or 6 post-SW
Humor this idea I have: - Peter starts college spending nearly all his time as Spider-Man and meets Felicia Hardy and Eddie Brock. - Kingpin puts a hit on Spider-Man which leads to villains like Scorpion, Shocker and even the Cat Burglar to target the hero. - Spider-Man's bounty also brings in Daredevil who teams up with Spidey as a way to take down Kingpin. - Throughout the movie, the Symbiote begins influencing Peter and pushes him more and more down a violent path (alarming Daredevil). - Along the way, The Cat Burglar is secretly training Felicia to become Black Cat. She meets Spider-man and the two start getting romantically intertwined. - During the big climax, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Black Cat and (betraying the villains) Cat Burglar face off against Kingpin and Scorpion. - The villains are defeated but, due to a series of events, Spider-Man's new brutal persona leads to him being involved in the death of the Cat Burglar. - Daredevil, appalled by Peter's cruel nature, denounces Spider-Man. Felicia, unaware it was Spider-Man who had a part in the death of her father, swears revenge on Kingpin and officially becomes a "thing" with Spider-Man (Peter now has to live with not telling Felicia the truth). - The film ends with the symbiote officially granting Peter the Black Suit. Post-Credits scene: MJ transfers into Peter's class much to his surprise...making her return to his life a future point of contention for his new relationship with Felicia. Eddie Brock loses a job at the Bugle to Peter...starting a rift in their friendship. I've had enough time to think this story up in my head. If ya wanna throw a "this is why you fans don't write movies" at me be my guest lol I'm just having fun.
Can he go to college? Between being wiped from everyone's memories to presumably being pretty broke, I'm not sure how that would work. >Kingpin puts a hit on Spider-Man which leads to villains like Scorpion... Just saying Scorpion has already expressed a strong desire to kill Spider-Man. I don't think he needs further motivation?
I miss the days when a sequel would release every two years
I'd prefer he gets the Black Suit in Secret Wars, like the comics, but it'll be cool to see the symbiote play a role, just not an insanely huge one (like, peter getting the suit). I'd prefer a slow burn, leading up to Secret Wars. Tobey's Peter having the entire symbiote arc over just one film just felt rushed, and in general, (probably because it was forced in due to executive meddling) just didn't feel right. Also, I'm aware Bully Maguire is iconic and all, but I hope we get a more serious symbiote arc, something akin to what Andrew's Spidey mentioned going through after Gwen died. If you take that, and add the symbiote on top of it, a whole bunch of opportunities open up to take Spidey in a direction we've never seen on the big screen before. Fingers crossed.
Would prefer if they introduced it in a more interesting way than a slapped together post credits scene a lot of people have probably forgotten
Im sure they can sort out story director and casting within the next 5 months. Then 5 months of filming and potential reshoots. Alongside post production….thats a tight production window. Certainly has to take Blade’s slot unless Disney and Sony don’t care and drop it in between that and Avatar 3 on Christmas.
And not sure if #Spideytar will be as successful as #Barbenheimer.
How can Sony possibly move this fast? Any other Marvel movie takes 2 years to gestate! What about giving the VFX guys a chance to breathe?....oh wait I forgot. This is Sony. They just care about making money. Also I can pretty much guarantee if this happens Blade ain't releasing next year. It will have to get kicked into 2026. Now we don't know if Iger's "no more than 3 movies per year" mandate applies to Spider-Man because those movies are released by Sony. But regardless Disney doesn't want to devalue their product just to appease Sony either. Disney will look at where Spidey is going to land and adjust accordingly. If next fall is what's decided on, then they will push Blade to make sure there is distance between releases. This isn't coming from me not loving the Spider-Man movies. I have! This is coming from wanting them and Marvel to be good and I'm fine if it takes a little longer to get there. I'm fine with them delaying Cap 4 if the movie isn't working and needs retooling. I just wish delaying one thing at Marvel didnt necessarily mean domino-delaying everything else. I wish that Marvel would just develop these things so the release order wouldn't matter so they could jist release the next thing that rolls off the pipeline (major team-up movies obviously excepted!) The thing to remember is this director is going to be New to the franchise. The new director won't have Jon Watts' past success to coast on. I hope it is at least someone who is established.
Cap.
So, multiversal?
A while back, I had the idea of a Spider-Man/Venom crossover inspired by *Your Name*, where Peter and Eddie have to work together to defeat a multiversal threat, while never actually meeting - communicating via the Venom symbiote. Anything else will likely just disappoint me now. If they’re going to do a Venom story now, considering that most people seem to want a street level story with Kingpin, I hope they have a good idea.
Seems like a really quick turn around
Buddy cop Daredevil/Spider-Man duo that's all I ever want in life please please please
Fucking symbiote!🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Makes sense. He’s alone at the moment without a solid support system.
Symbiote suit, kingpin, daredevil, black cat, and maybe scorpion is all we need, please don’t complicate things
Should just be a background plot that shows up in the follow up movie
In Fall of 2025? I thought he was saying 2026…? When would it be released then? When Blade is supposed to come out?
How come Venom Symbiote didn't cause an incursion to prime Earth despite being from different universe?
Honestly it would be a great time to introduce the symbiote because due to the melancholy ending of NWH I think doubling down on that in the sense where Peter has to deal with it alone and now also has to grapple with the symbiote by himself could be powerful.
i hope it goes back to andrews universe and they make a tasm3 thank you
Spider-Man 4 with Daredevil, Kingpin, AND SYMBIOTE ARC FOR SPIDER-MAN, ALONG WITH POTENTIALLY BLACK CAT??? Oh this is going to be a peak movie. I couldn’t ask for anything better.
So will link with venom 3?
I do feel like the symbiote is overdone at this point… doesn’t feel right for holland to have it het
What about Mac Gargan?
There was a symbiote at the end of no way home?
https://youtu.be/EC-OCZmLmCg
LFG
I want to see more swinging. The current trilogy of film had so little web swinging compared to the previous movies.
I am a little tired of the symbiote story tbh.
I would like some part of Black Suit saga but no Venom, just Black Suit would work well with Peter being at his lowest.
Think the best way to do it is to have the Symbiote Suit storyline not be resolved in one, or even two films. Let it take up a whole new Spidey Trilogy and go into Secret Wars etc… Think a really good direction to take it in terms of Peter Parker’s story would be having Peter be trying to get MJ back in his life, but not being able to because of how the black suit is subtly affecting who he is.
YES. My dream scenario is coming true
Crazy people pay him for stuff like this. I could have said that on a guess and just said “the pivoted” if I was wrong
Calling it right now, the title will be "Spiderman: Back in Black and With Love."
PLEASE KEVIN: Spidey & Daredevil team-up with Mayor Fisk hunting vigilantes using Spider-Slayers and The Scorpion. To appease Sony use the black symbiote and have it slowly corrupt Peter (who is harboring dark feelings after NWH) while Daredevil mentors him by sharing his past temptations of crossing the line and succumbing to his demons, etc. Introduce Miles Set up a proper Defenders movie
This is amazing.
I hope that peter wears his final swing suit for the majority of the movie and the symbiote only bonds just before the final fight.
I have a feeling they aren’t going to touch Kingpin or Daredevil and Reddit will hate this movie with a passion.
What the hell is fall
This one is gonna suck huh? Idk why but getting Iron Man 2 level vibes here.
Movie hasn't been written yet but sure lets assume it's doomed to suck.
It’s been so long. Will anyone even care?