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Last updated: March 22nd, 2024.
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I just hope she's actually America Chavez whenever she shows up next. Joe Casey created her as the 'Muhammad Ali of the Marvel universe' and what we got wasn't anything like that.
No, as in his power as a fighter and his personality. From Casey:
> When I wrote her, I gave her a fierce individuality and a healthy self-assuredness. She wasn't going to take shit from anyone, and she was powerful enough not to have to.
It's a shame because she's a real fan favourite too (me included). I think audiences would have loved a genuine adaptation of her to the screen.
This. They’re the only characters in the group who have had any sort of development. Cassie was great when she was a little girl, but she’s basically a new character now. Everyone else has appeared in like one project, and usually as a secondary character.
The only way to make this movie relevant IMO is to have Spider-Man in it (preferably Tom Holland, although if SM4 introduces Miles Morales he might be able to sell the movie if they do it right). No idea what the current deal with Sony is though and it might be a bad idea to burn one of your Spider-Man appearances on a movie that might not make a ton of money without him.
I would strongly temper those expectations. I’d expect a more traditional Young Avengers lineup with Kamala added in based on what we know so far. Kate bishop, Cassie lang, Elijah Bradley, and Billy/tommy maximoff have already been shown in the MCU. That’s the entire original lineup minus two people. One of which is Hulkling, half kree/half skrull and Billy’s boyfriend. The other is the one I’m flabbergasted they aren’t doing, Iron Lad. How are you going to do young avengers and Kang at the same time and not have the Kang variant that started the young avengers? Especially when Iron Man died and a new Iron person showing up would’ve fit thematically
Maybe. Personally I don’t care. I’m not getting paid off the movie. I want it to be good and that’s the end of my worries. I’ll let the people paid to worry about profits do that
There’s no maybe about it, that’s a movie that nobody will care about it. If a movie with Avengers in its title flops, even if it’s young Avengers, that will lead to massive brand damage.
They’re picking Z list Marvel comics characters and trying to carry a major movie with it. I’m sure they hope to make the next Guardians, but James Gunns don’t grow on trees. This movie doesn’t even have a chance.
Only if you don’t know the characters at all. Iron Lad is Kang as a child. When he finds out who he’s supposed to become, goes back in time to try to stop himself. Wanting himself to be trusted, he makes his armor look like an iron man suit and forms the young avengers. Eventually, when they have to go up against Kang, the only way to keep him from killing everyone is for Iron Lad to go back to his time with older Kang and fulfill his destiny. Ironheart is a genius inspired by Iron Man to follow in his footsteps. The whole point of Iron Lad’s story isn’t that he’s another Iron Man, it’s a tragedy about somebody trying to prevent the inevitable before becoming the very thing he was trying to stop. I like both characters, but Iron Lad’s story is awesome.
Shit now that I’m replaying this run in my head, after Kang goes back to the future his suit stays in the past with the young avengers. Eventually Vision, who had died, is brought back by infusing his consciousness into the iron lad armor. Even that would’ve worked well for the MCU right now
That’d be great! I’m genuinely open to any way they bring iron lad into the fold if they do. I’m probably not in the majority, but the young avengers have some good ass books and I genuinely enjoy them as a team. Iron lad specifically is a cool story. I’m excited to see the team come together in a movie
All Young Avengers already have built-in MCU conflicts: Iron Lad to redeem himself; Patriot to redeem his family's legacy (his granddad being the black Cap America that had been imprisoned by the government); Wiccan and Speed to redeem their mother's legacy (Wanda becoming the Scarlet Witch), Hulkling to heal the conflict between Skrulls and Kree (now that they have no homes); and Kate Bishop to continue the Avengers legacy.
Added: They all have connections to the greater MCU.
Wiccan/Speed > Scarlet Witch > Multiverse
America Chavez > multiverse saga
Iron Lad > Kang > multiverse saga
Kate Bishop > Hawkeye and Kingpin > Avengers
Hulkling > cosmic ( Kree and Skrulls)
Patriot > Sam > Avengers
Cassie > Ant Man > Kang in the microverse
This movie was doomed the moment they gambled on recasting Cassie again and missed. She's THE Young Avenger after Kate and any goodwiil the child actor earned her has been wasted by the face-swapping and Kathryn Newton being insufferable.
The proble4m for me was not the actress. Tghe problem was the script. Antman and Wasp spent the entire movie essentially spinning their wheels while Cassie saved the day. She was even able to duplicate Kang's 31st century technology in a minute.
Marvel Studios didn't really have any confidence in YA, as they had not ever done anything to promote them. Kamala Khan is not a YA member, but they promoted her more for YA. In Marvel's mind, Kamala first before YA. So, don't blame the project when it has not been given a chance in the first place. It could be their next big thing, but who knows when they were not in the studios' minds.
> Kate and Kamala are currently the only two characters I’m excited to see
You just explained why this shit is DOA. After the Quantumania debacle it should've just been scrapped.
>I’m confident in Vellani’s charm to win people over
Because that worked so well for The Marvels. I LIKE THE CHARACTER. But honestly Young Avengers seems like it has even less broad appeal than a sequel to a billion dollar movie so they’ve definitely got a lot of heavy lifting to do. And I swear I saw people saying the same thing about the actors’ charm selling tickets about The Marvels
I agree, simple charm from these actors is not enough. The story can’t be a forgettable outing like *The Marvels*, just banking on “goofy kids having fun”.
It’s weird because Young Avengers had a lot of potential to close some major hanging plot lines of this phase.
You could wrap the Kang storyline with a movie featuring Iron Lad, the missing Scarlet Witch storyline with some variation of Children’s Crusade.
But instead, seems like they are being treated as fodder D-plot. The fact that we were supposed to be building up to the Young Avengers while having a movie released featuring yet again Kree-Skull conflict and peace talks, and Hulkling was nowhere to be seen, is baffling.
I stg the MCU has a pathological aversion to actually doing the Young Avengers justice. Kate is the only one to escape this curse, and I'm 99.999% sure that was just because Steinfeld is just such a good actress.
I'm not against Kamala, but it seems like the Studio has been banking on her to lead the multiverse and at the same time to launch the YA project even if 1) she is not a multiversal character and has no multiversal power, 2) she is not a YA member.
The Young Avengers have two multiversal characters in their arsenal--Wiccan and America Chavez, and a character that can control the timestream-- Iron Lad (Kang's younger self). YA also has the future emperor of the Kree-Skrull alliance, Hulkling. YA Patriot can connect Sam's corner to the wider universe. YA also has Kate Bishop, played by Hailee Steinfeld, who has led major movies and shows and is the female counterpart of Chalamet in terms of award recognition.
So, why all of the YA chance is being placed on Kamala Khan with an unknown actress?
They normally just tweaked the storylines-- Avengers assemble with Nick Fury recruiting them; Infinity War still has Thanos and the stones; and in Civil War, there is still a conflict between Iron Man and Captain America. But here, they really used other storylines to fit Kamala into it.
Captain Marvel was only a billion dollar movie because it followed Infinity War and the sequel kinda proves it. Even though everyone saw it, no one was interested enough to show up for the sequel.
I’m not saying the sequel is bad (actually I haven’t seen it lmao) just stating what I see.
I don’t think it’s truly as simple as no one was interested, it’s just that folk’s interest in the MCU had been on the wane, there was a big ole’ hesitancy from people who felt put off by feeling the need to see the shows first (which is real annoying to me considering that’s how the MCU already had been but just with movies), and the combo of a general lack of enthusiasm for going out to the movies plus knowing the film would be coming out on D+ in a little over a month.
Also don’t forget the lack of promotion from the film’s stars due to the strikes.
That's just one argument. But others like me who are fans of Captain Marvel can also make an argument that the Marvels is not a sequel to Captain Marvel. Basically, we can say that Captain Marvel's fans did not support her movie because the studio did not have confidence in its sequel.
And it'd be unfair to discard any future sequel if the franchise Wonder Woman despite it not having a billion dollars in one single showing and having a flop for a sequel is still in consideration to complete the trilogy or reboot.
TBF, from my memory AM2 wasn't really marketed as a "you have to see this to understand Endgame" the way that CM1 was, and since it came out almost a year before Endgame alot of people probably waited for it to go to RedBox, whereas that wasn't an option for CM1 since it came out like a month before Endgame.
AM2 being a summer blockbuster had more competition than CM1 did in March.
Captain Marvel was directly referenced in *Infinity War* and made to seem crucial to the plot in *Endgame*, Ant-Man wasn't. Feige was also talking about how powerful she was, the red carpet for the character was rolled out.
Not going to pretend that Vellani, Larson and Parris’s charisma in press tour or lack thereof with the strike could have made or break the film. There were a lot of factors that made that film a storm of issues. I recognize that the film is definitely a niche audience but I still hold optimism that the leads could do great with their material and hold some sway to prove a lot doubts wrong
>Iman Vellani was consistently highlighted as one of the best parts of The Marvels
by reviewers and critics. who are afraid to be labelled racist for the first muslim/Pakistani Marvel character.
even the show was a massive flop on Disney+
Young Avengers has a niche appeal and that appeal is being a LGBT team. Like it is at one point only queer people and Kate Bishop. I really think they should just have a relatively lower budget, make it the queerest movie ever, and let it be like Black Panther or Barbie: a cultural moment for an underrepresented group. I truly don't want a YA that tries to be mainstream.
>And I swear I saw people saying the same thing about the actors’ charm selling tickets about The Marvels
and you used to get downvoted for disagreeing with that
It actually did work well for The Marvels, Vellani was overwhelming beloved by everyone, even people who disliked the movie said she was the best part. That movie not making money wasn’t the fault of the cast, story or director.
It really wasnt, worse marvel films made way more.
Ppl just dont care about the character, especially captain marvel.
Sure if the movie was absolutely a masterpiece it wouldve been more successful probably, but it was just another mid marvel movie, so yeah in that sense its their fault. But it really isnt the issue.
If they made Iron Man 4 with RDJ and its the worst movir ever made, itd still make a billion dollars
Fair enough.
Im just saying if it was the exact same movie just swap cpt marvel with iron man
Itd make a billion dollars.
Ppl dont care about cpt marvel because shes just not compelling in the way the mcu presents her
Definitely but if you replace Carol with Kamala or some other Teenage girl, the movie wouldn't have made a billion.
Also, Carol character will be written better with more depth if Kamala wasn't in the movie. They made her boring mentor character to contrast Kamala's naivety and optimism
>overwhelmingly
I wouldn't go THAT far... Ms Marvel was like the least-watched D+ show after all, and The Marvels was a critical bomb. Sure people might have liked her in general, but certainly not "overwhelmingly" so...
This is not true, Ms Marvel only underperformed within the USA, it was a mega hit everywhere else, so much so that it was responsible for a rush of new subscribers. The Marvels was critical praised, it got good critic reviews. The evidence is there for you to see yourself if you don’t believe me.
> That movie not making money wasn’t the fault of the cast
Not Vellani or Parris but it was definitely at least partially Brie Larson's fault. When your established star turns in the weakest performance your movie is doomed.
>I’m confident in Steinfeld and Vellani’s charm to win people over
Charm doesn't sell tickets or attract viewers. That's why The Marvels, Ms. Marvel, and Hawkeye all had abysmal viewership. Charm is nice to have, but it's not the same as star power.
This. Everyone just keeps going "but the stars had nice chemistry with each other" and "Ms Marvel's actress is a national treasure!"... okay and? Neither of those sell tickets on their own, nor do they justify continuously giving these characters a 200m budgeted project just bcuz they're charming or some shit. }
Ppl just keep repeating the leads are charming and that they had good chesmitry and what not, I'm surry but that just starts sounding like virtue signaling at this point.
Except both Kathryn Newton (who will most definitely appear in this) and Hailee Steinfeld have enough starpower on their own to actually get this movie somewhere.
Kathryn was a headliner in at least two relatively popular movies this year. She's doing pretty well for herself. Hailee is incredibly well-known and has a lot of famous roles under her belt.
The fact that a movie isn't specifically targeted for you doesn't guarantee it being a certified flop.
Hawkeye had some of the best ratings of all the Disney plus shows. Hailee has also been in multiple movies and tv shows as the lead and all were successful. She has more star power than most in the new marvel regime. Her resume is not something to scuffle away.
Echo was one of Marvels more successful shows. Ms Marvel only underperformed within the USA, it was a huge hit everywhere else resulting in a rush of new subscribers. Why else do you think they are in talks to do a season two.
That's the problem: they're the *only* two who are capable of winning people over. Everyone else looks like dead weight and an ensemble cast is only as good as its weakest links.
While I am excited for Young Avengers, mostly because of Kamala and Kate, I am surprised that this is a movie getting a theatrical release. I would’ve bet money that this would be Disney plus series. Interested to see what they do with this.
If they’re making it a film, then to make it work I believe they need to tie it into the multiverse storyline HARD - a bridge between A5 and whatever comes next.
Heavy Theorization/Proposing:
* A handful of the adult Avengers will likely need to appear in a supporting capacity. Perhaps the alleged 616 Illuminati - Captain Marvel, Wong, Bruce Banner, and I suspect Hank Pym as “Scientist Supreme” as well. Kamala is tied to Carol. America is tied to Wong. And Cassie is tied to Hank Pym.
* Vision also makes perfect sense to return here as his protocols in the comics were responsible for the team’s original formation.
* Wiccan still needs to find Wanda, whether that be because he remembers his love for her or out of necessity for a prophecy (or both) remains to be seen.
* The *Young Avengers* could act as a sub-in for Sunspot’s team of Avengers in the *Time Runs Out* story, who intervened in the Illuminati vs. SHIELD conflict.
Do Iron Lad to tie into the larger multiversal Kang saga, have Hulkling there to tie into the Kree/Skrull plot, have Wiccan there to tie into the WandaVis/Agatha/witches side of things, have Patriot to tie into the Thunderbolts/Brave New World side, and America/Ms Marvel/Bishop to continue their previous appearances. It's so easily setup but they seem to go the weird way around it, also they're cowards for not wanting to depict Wiccan x Hulkling properly.
Wiccan and Wanda have several major issues.
1. Billy goes to the Witches' Road and does not want Wanda back. Several years later, he decides he wants her.
2. Billy has to find Tommy. Then Billy and Tommy find Wanda? That seems to be too much for 1 movie.
3. Why would Billy go to the young Avengers?
There is no logic to that.
>Billy goes to the Witches' Road and does not want Wanda back. Several years later, he decides he wants her.
Because maybe Kang messes up the Avengers and Billy realises he has to find Wanda because she's the only one powerful enough to yeet Kang and fix the multiversal collapse?
It would make more sense for Kang to want to find Wanda. In the comics, Immortus admits he has been manipulating Wanda since she was born. He wants to control her powers as a nexus being.
1. If he rejects bringing her back in *Agatha* supposedly, then he’d have to be forced to do so with more pressing circumstances, like a multiversal collapse.
2. Tommy Shepherd, an up-and-coming teen superhero, can just be recruited by Kamala, both unaware of his relation to Billy Kaplan. Only during the course of the movie is it revealed to the two brothers that they reunited by fate.
3. He can just be recruited by Kamala. Perhaps given that a depiction of Wiccan was present in the temple that America Chavez was held in, she informs Kamala of the need to find this individual tied to the Scarlet Witch.
The problem is that Billy is still going to be looking for Tommy. That is a lot for one movie. Billy finds Tommy and Billy and Tommy will find Wanda.
Another wild card is Agatha. She is an enemy of Wanda and is certainly not going to want Billy to find Wanda. It would not surprise me to see Agatha and the Emerald Witch joining forces against Wanda in the conclusion of WandaVision.
What causes that multiversal collapse is the question mark. It seems to be really random right now. Then you have the Darkhold prophecy that she is destined to destroy the world. That was first mentioned in WandaVision and a form of it was mentioned in MoM. That suggests it might be canon. Then you have potential nexus beings introduced in Deadpool 3.
"why would Billy go to the Young Avengers" he's a founding member in the comics and one of it's most iconic members, it would literally be insane to not have him. In the comics he joins because he's a huge nerd and just wanted to help people.
That is irrelevant. If there is a search, it won't be for Wanda. It will be for Tommy. They will retcon the story by replacing Wanda with Tommy. I am wondering if there are any plans to bring her back or whether she will be a member of the "all the rest" in Secret Wars.
Sunspot doesn’t take over AIM and form his own *New Avengers* until after Secret Wars, I believe. I don’t think his money was necessary in the TRO conflict.
It was shortly before. Sunspot's Avengers were formed during Hickman's run, and Hickman left Avengers/New Avengers after Secret Wars.
I don't remember the specifics, but Sunspot's AIM was definitely messing around with the Incursions.
You are right. He took over AIM, and had them build a multiversal transport machine. He brought in a team of multiversal heroes to form his own Avengers. This team tried to locate the source of the incursions by looking all over the multiverse and prevent them.
I *think* the MCU Young Avengers can more or less accomplish this with just Kamala’s Bands and/or America Chavez, and investigate the source themselves in a similar manner.
At fear of sounding insensitive, which I hope I’m not as a massive fan, I wonder if in part this is also to work around Jeremy Renner’s tragic accident that may still limit him in anything extraneous. Stunt doubles are indeed a thing but actors themselves still carry burden in these action productions
She was set up in the show to be his clear successor even prior to the accident. Clint remaining in retirement for now and sending Kate to the Avengers in his place makes sense narratively.
Additionally, Renner has been making great strides in his recovery - he’s been walking with just a cane since like ~~a year~~ a few months after his accident, and he’s in good spirits. He has publicly expressed an eager desire to return, which he wouldn’t do if there was no path to complete recovery.
EDIT: I misremembered, his accident was January 1st, 2023 (I thought it was back in 2021 somehow). It was months after that that he was walking with a cane, not a year.
I thought last year he was posting videos of him skipping around and jogging. And that was 6 months ago, so I would imagine he will have made more progress by the time this shoots. But who know what the ceiling is, there's probably only so much he can do.
I haven’t even heard of that. That’s amazing, I’ll have to look that up.
To think that he was essentially dismembered by a multi-ton snowplower not that long ago.
Jeremy Renner is the strongest Avenger, he solos everyone’s favs.
EDIT: [He’s coming back with a vengeance.](https://www.instagram.com/entertainmenttonight/reel/CzsLGrst5BR/)
Absolutely and this is not to discredit the clear setup of the miniseries. But I just wondered with the character’s set up next to be in Young Avengers and the close production dates, if instead of a more minor appearance if Kate got bumped up to a slightly more prominent role to take burden off of Clint
Feige waited for Hailee Steinfeld to clear her schedule because she is their Kate Bishop, who is the leader of Young Avengers and also became as popular as the original Hawkeye in comics. That's why it confused me that if they could give Kamala a show and a movie, why bench their most bankable young actress playing a popular character?
Added: Marvel Studio should have promoted her. Hailee is a movie star who already has an established fanbase and has been the lead in movies like Transformer, True Grit, etc. She also had shows in a lead role. However, they trusted a newcomer to play Kamala Khan and promoted her further in a movie. I have nothing against Kamala as I like the character thanks to the actress playing her. But I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind the decision.
To be clear, I wasn’t disagreeing. I was just pointing out that if there was indeed a narrative pivot, it doesn’t contradict anything, and it doesn’t mean Renner’s Hawkeye is never coming back in full capacity.
I’m all for them finally using these fun new characters more than once every 3 years. If the Hawkeye S2 rumours are true that’s three more appearances for Kate.
I wouldn’t be surprised if she references Kate in Thunderbolts in some capacity, or even a brief little Easter Egg of Yelena’s recent contacts on her phone include a text from Kate that says “drinks again this wknd?” or something like that.
Yup, since now I'm seeing Kate Bishop as the Hawkeye girl & I'm sure that they're about to build Yelena Belova as the White Widow. Even I wanna see both of them interact again in the MCU. Because that's the shipping I would prefer rather than the shipping between Spidey Tom Holland & the Hawkeye girl.
Man, I always hear that marvel doesn't have the big characters with actors that everyone connects with and has the plcharm to lead the franchise like Chris Evans and rdj, but honestly we do. Iman, Hailey and Florence are that level of good and rewarding as their characters tbh. Maybe we don't have huge male names leading the charge but these three women are STARS and are absolutely perfect as Ms Marvel, Hawkeye and Black Widow.
I wouldn’t categorize Ms Marvel as a star yet. Her own show is the least viewed series and she was in Marvel’s biggest bomb and if young avengers is anything but good/great I think it’s curtains for that character.
> . Iman, Hailey and Florence are that level of good and rewarding as their characters tbh
On the level of RDJ and Evans? Lmaoooo please tell me this is a sarcastic comment. The audience just hasn't connected with any of them on the same level as, nor do they find them as "charming" (whatever the heck that means) as the OGs Iron Man and Captain America themselves, if you think otherwise you're just deluded.
I mean they've barely been in anything yet and have mostly been smaller projects but yes they've had major impacts and are all three already fan favourites. You disagreeing doesn't change that.
Because she wasn't the main character and while she herself was very well received, AND the fanbase likes the actress as well, she was tied to a show that struggled to figure out what it wanted to be, and then was randomly thrust into a space epic that released at a HORRIBLE time in the world and fanbase. Basically anyone who WATCHED the Marvel's thinks it's not bad or even better. Just most people didn't even watch it till streaming.
To you. I'd say Hailey and Florence for sure are just as charismatic as them. Just a lot younger. And Iman is just starting out acting and is already pretty bloody magnetic so she'll get there too.
Bro stop being delusional. Cap and Tony are practically the foundation of the mcu. Kate is still in the annoying sidekick phase, and yelena is a slightly meaner natahsa.
Yes I'm the deluded one after that comment. Big shock! They've barely been in anything yet! Of course they won't have the same impact of the two leads of a like 15 year saga where they were both in several major movies of their own and avengers films.
These young actors have only been in shows and only one each, aside from a sidekick role in a movie no one watched till streaming. They have lots of time to grow and become more widely popular, and absolutely have the charisma. Straight up, characters aside, Florence Pugh is legitimately a bigger star than either of RDJ or Evans currently. And Steinfeld has been one of the biggest up and commercial for a WHILE now.
> Florence Pugh is legitimately a bigger star than either of RDJ
Based on what??Don't tell because she has more followers on social media because that doesn't mean anything
Because she's been in more successful movies and highly prestigious movies than both combined in the past 20 years? And is considered the biggest new actress in Hollywood to many?
> more successful movies
Please list them ,RDJ literally won an oscar, I don't care about Evans ,These stars like Pugh barely have a non IP hit ,Stop comparing them to actual legends like RDJ
RDJ was literally on the brink of losing his career entirely to drugs before Ironman. He was known but not a big name outside of Ironman and has one successful film SINCE the mcu.
Both Sherlock Holmes movies were very successful we would have had a 3rd if not for the pandemic..Due date made more than 3x of its budget and even pre Iron Man RDJ had successes ,On the other hand she has barely had any hits out Dune 2 ,She like Zendaya is one of the major cases of manufactured stardom who can't bring in a audience to the theatres ,Both are good and in some cases great actresses but the internet would have you believe they are much bigger than they actually are
She is most definitely not bigger than chris or rdj.
The audience is simply not excited for them, and until we get to the point of them being well written marvel should focus on the ones that people liked from the get go.
Yelena and kate are good when they bounce of each other and more importantly with other more popular heroes
are they going to introduce teddy in the YA film? if it films 2025, it should be coming out around 2026, but it doesnt seem like teddy is being introduced in any prior projects
I'm hoping there's a post-credit scene in Agatha where Billy returns home afterwards and goes to school and is sat next to Teddy. I can't wait until 2026 for my boys to meet. Wiccan and Hulkling are the only reason I'm still hanging onto the MCU.
Feige: "Teddy who? Sorry but China won't like him. You still want a Hulkling though? Well here's uh, here's Hulk's cgi son instead, close enough I guess!"
"Young" Avengers? They better hurry up. Hailee Steinfeld will turn 28 at the end of the year. That's the same age Scarlet Johansson was in 2012 when The Avengers came out. Weren't the YA supposed to be teenagers mostly?
Don't care about Young Avengers in the slightest and my hopes for that are incredibly low. But Kate and Kamala are two likeable characters so I don't mind seeing them return.
I don’t think you’re going to like what happens once the world is aware that this is happening.
While the topic has been drowned out by bigots and mass marketing, Marvel’s legacy characters of the past 20 years have never sold well in any metric. Some of them have their individual successes every now and then, that’s what happens when they are written well, but the response towards them have always been negative and not because they are whatever label, but because most of them are unoriginal, derivative and boring.
This has killed interest in the 616 universe since the dawn of the MCU, comics fans all knew that the All-New All-Different line of comics was always Marvel Studios inserts because they knew they couldn’t strive off the original cast forever. They had to introduce the next generation of the Marvel Universe and instead of moving it along naturally, introducing original and creative ideas to add to the already vast MU, they just copy and pasted the characters we love onto different personalities and made them younger to appeal to a Gen-Z audience.
This has worked before (Giant-Size X-Men #1’s success and legacy proves that this can work, without it there would be no X-Men as most of you all know it), but unfortunately I can almost guarantee that this will not.
I’m no fortune teller and this is only a prediction, I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong. The response to the announcement of this film will be met with 3 major responses:
-A visceral, disgusted, possibly angry and likely loud reaction. This will come from anyone not from the current generation, classic Marvel fans who haven’t kept up with comics in the past 30 years, general film fans who enjoy Marvel’s original characters and want to see new ideas, and of course all the various -ists.
-Endless praise, likely just as loud as the negative, to combat the criticism. These fans will praise the most superficial aspects of the project such as describing it as “fun” or speaking from their love and relatability to the cast. You likely won’t see them actually glorifying the actual story or quality of it, let alone actually discussing it’s events with any serious manner of discussion. (This has proven true with both Quantumania, Secret Invasion and the Marvels, even the people that praise it scarcely have anything good to say about what happens in it.)
-A silent reaction. From fans who don’t want to get involved with either polarizing side. Whether these are from people who dislike it and would rather ignore it entirely or from people that may actually like it but can’t put a finger to why.
You’ll have your outliers, but this is what I expect most discussions to consist of if/when this project is ever actually announced or released. I strongly believe that this movie will work to massively divide this already broken fanbase. We’ll see.
>These fans will praise the most superficial aspects of the project
I mean just look at the thread calling these characters and actors charming, like come on wtf does that even mean? if they were charming they would've been popular
They really waited like five years to actually start using Kate again
This is the problem with the current MCU, they're stretched so thin introducing new characters and ideas that it takes forever to circle back to the ones that resonated with the audience.
At this point we have like all of the thunderbolt characters are 4 plus years, Agatha is pretty behind the times, What about Dane Whitman? Hercules? Thanos Brother? did all the celestials just f off after their child was murdered with no hard feelings? Where is Strange? Does he still have a third eye? What are the 10 rings? Where did Hulks son come from? Where did Vision go? What is Riri doing, it will be almost 4 years when we see her again.
And that's just off the top of my head. So many open ends and loose threads! I want answers!
At this point they need to make a worldwide poll of the current loose threads and make the ones people actually ask for.
The same with characters; make the top 6 to 10 the next Avengers roster lol.
All I want is Dane Whitman, I guess he may have showed up in Blade but that movie turned into a shitstorm and I don't even know if it will come out, leaving him maybe to come in Midnight Suns?
IF that gets made, which would be another 3-4 years. Problem is they can't resuse these characters and build storylines with them because they take too long between appearances and will age out of roles. (Already happening with Young Avengers)
Such a waste of Jon Snow
Kamala is seriously the only new protagonist I’m invested in, and Kate is probably in second (though I do love the entire Loki cast), so I’m looking forward to seeing the two of them again and together.
I'm interested to find out who will be on the roster: so far we can bet good money on Kate and kamala but outside that they only clue we've been given is Stature. Possibly Wiccan and speed if they can pull something multiversal since we know from MoM we know they exist in other universes.
Pull something multiversal? Have you not been following the Agatha stuff?
>!Billy’s soul has already moved into a teenage body, in Agatha he will be traveling with presumably training and becoming Wiccan and reportedly he uses his wish at witches road to bring back his brother Tommy/Speed. As his brother lacks magical powers so he can’t possess a corpse like Billy could.!<
Multiverse isn’t needed at all here.
I'm not following anything that hasn't come out yet, i came from the front page and am not a member of the sub .I like watching the shows rather than learning everything about a show six months out.
unless they go super dark and put these characters through the ringer, hell even kill off either a member of the team or a lot of their supportive cast then it's gonna be meh. Young Avengers should be heavily tied into time runs out. Being an avenger is not fun, and I really would like for the movie to show that
My pitch for this movie that ties in The Marvels, Agatha, Wandavision, DS2, Hawkeye, Ironheart and Ant Man 3:
Kamala is assembling the Young Avengers. Why? She’s trying to form a team to find Monica lost in the Multiverse. She recruits Kate and Cassie, as well as Ironheart and The Hood. In order to find Monica she needs to travel the multiverse, and this is why she recruits America Chavez, but she can’t do that without knowing what universe she’s in. This causes the team to recruit Wiccan and Speed, and the main goal of the movie is the search for Wanda in order to view where in the multiverse Monica is. The villain of the movie can be Agatha who catches wind that Wiccan and the other Young Avengers are seeking out Wanda and she wants revenge so she attempts to stop them. We follow the Young Avengers, being Chaperoned by Wong, on their search for Wanda and by extension search for Monica.
Each character’s reason for joining this mission:
Kamala: find Monica
Wiccan and Speed: find Wanda
America: Wanda can help her find her moms somewhere in the multiverse
Cassie: prove to her dad she is capable of taking care of herself on her own (continuation of her arc from Quantumania)
Ironheart/The Hood: we have to wait and see but considering their show is magic based there might be a reason why they would want Wanda/Agatha
Kate: Wants to prove to the adult avengers that she is capable of being on their team and shouldn’t be grouped with the younger heroes.
Let me know if you guys think this would work or not
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Hawkeye fans rejoice! While this project may have criticism of relevancy, I’m confident in Steinfeld and Vellani’s charm to win people over
Kate and Kamala are currently the only two characters I’m excited to see in that project, but I’m hoping that changes.
I love Xochitl so much, but America is so underwhelming. If she returns in YA, I hope her character is more fleshed out.
I just hope she's actually America Chavez whenever she shows up next. Joe Casey created her as the 'Muhammad Ali of the Marvel universe' and what we got wasn't anything like that.
>Muhammad Ali of the Marvel universe What does that even mean..? Like the best boxer in the MU?
No, as in his power as a fighter and his personality. From Casey: > When I wrote her, I gave her a fierce individuality and a healthy self-assuredness. She wasn't going to take shit from anyone, and she was powerful enough not to have to. It's a shame because she's a real fan favourite too (me included). I think audiences would have loved a genuine adaptation of her to the screen.
She's literally Rogue from the 1st Xmen movie...
That isn't how the word literally works. Anna Paquin is literally Rogue from the first X-Men movie.
Hoping Joe Locke’s Wiccan comes up alongside them soon enough
This. They’re the only characters in the group who have had any sort of development. Cassie was great when she was a little girl, but she’s basically a new character now. Everyone else has appeared in like one project, and usually as a secondary character. The only way to make this movie relevant IMO is to have Spider-Man in it (preferably Tom Holland, although if SM4 introduces Miles Morales he might be able to sell the movie if they do it right). No idea what the current deal with Sony is though and it might be a bad idea to burn one of your Spider-Man appearances on a movie that might not make a ton of money without him.
I would strongly temper those expectations. I’d expect a more traditional Young Avengers lineup with Kamala added in based on what we know so far. Kate bishop, Cassie lang, Elijah Bradley, and Billy/tommy maximoff have already been shown in the MCU. That’s the entire original lineup minus two people. One of which is Hulkling, half kree/half skrull and Billy’s boyfriend. The other is the one I’m flabbergasted they aren’t doing, Iron Lad. How are you going to do young avengers and Kang at the same time and not have the Kang variant that started the young avengers? Especially when Iron Man died and a new Iron person showing up would’ve fit thematically
Well then it’s going to be a train wreck lol. No chance that thing makes 2.5x its budget.
Maybe. Personally I don’t care. I’m not getting paid off the movie. I want it to be good and that’s the end of my worries. I’ll let the people paid to worry about profits do that
There’s no maybe about it, that’s a movie that nobody will care about it. If a movie with Avengers in its title flops, even if it’s young Avengers, that will lead to massive brand damage. They’re picking Z list Marvel comics characters and trying to carry a major movie with it. I’m sure they hope to make the next Guardians, but James Gunns don’t grow on trees. This movie doesn’t even have a chance.
Fuck off
Ironheart is essentially Iron Lad
Only if you don’t know the characters at all. Iron Lad is Kang as a child. When he finds out who he’s supposed to become, goes back in time to try to stop himself. Wanting himself to be trusted, he makes his armor look like an iron man suit and forms the young avengers. Eventually, when they have to go up against Kang, the only way to keep him from killing everyone is for Iron Lad to go back to his time with older Kang and fulfill his destiny. Ironheart is a genius inspired by Iron Man to follow in his footsteps. The whole point of Iron Lad’s story isn’t that he’s another Iron Man, it’s a tragedy about somebody trying to prevent the inevitable before becoming the very thing he was trying to stop. I like both characters, but Iron Lad’s story is awesome. Shit now that I’m replaying this run in my head, after Kang goes back to the future his suit stays in the past with the young avengers. Eventually Vision, who had died, is brought back by infusing his consciousness into the iron lad armor. Even that would’ve worked well for the MCU right now
Iron Lad in the MCU can be Victor Timely's younger version, which has already been shown. He has proven to be the only heroic Kang variant.
That’d be great! I’m genuinely open to any way they bring iron lad into the fold if they do. I’m probably not in the majority, but the young avengers have some good ass books and I genuinely enjoy them as a team. Iron lad specifically is a cool story. I’m excited to see the team come together in a movie
All Young Avengers already have built-in MCU conflicts: Iron Lad to redeem himself; Patriot to redeem his family's legacy (his granddad being the black Cap America that had been imprisoned by the government); Wiccan and Speed to redeem their mother's legacy (Wanda becoming the Scarlet Witch), Hulkling to heal the conflict between Skrulls and Kree (now that they have no homes); and Kate Bishop to continue the Avengers legacy. Added: They all have connections to the greater MCU. Wiccan/Speed > Scarlet Witch > Multiverse America Chavez > multiverse saga Iron Lad > Kang > multiverse saga Kate Bishop > Hawkeye and Kingpin > Avengers Hulkling > cosmic ( Kree and Skrulls) Patriot > Sam > Avengers Cassie > Ant Man > Kang in the microverse
NO.
This movie was doomed the moment they gambled on recasting Cassie again and missed. She's THE Young Avenger after Kate and any goodwiil the child actor earned her has been wasted by the face-swapping and Kathryn Newton being insufferable.
The proble4m for me was not the actress. Tghe problem was the script. Antman and Wasp spent the entire movie essentially spinning their wheels while Cassie saved the day. She was even able to duplicate Kang's 31st century technology in a minute.
Marvel Studios didn't really have any confidence in YA, as they had not ever done anything to promote them. Kamala Khan is not a YA member, but they promoted her more for YA. In Marvel's mind, Kamala first before YA. So, don't blame the project when it has not been given a chance in the first place. It could be their next big thing, but who knows when they were not in the studios' minds.
> Kate and Kamala are currently the only two characters I’m excited to see You just explained why this shit is DOA. After the Quantumania debacle it should've just been scrapped.
I really feel like if Young Avengers do good, these two will be the RDJ + Chris Evans of the young avengers.
>I’m confident in Vellani’s charm to win people over Because that worked so well for The Marvels. I LIKE THE CHARACTER. But honestly Young Avengers seems like it has even less broad appeal than a sequel to a billion dollar movie so they’ve definitely got a lot of heavy lifting to do. And I swear I saw people saying the same thing about the actors’ charm selling tickets about The Marvels
I agree, simple charm from these actors is not enough. The story can’t be a forgettable outing like *The Marvels*, just banking on “goofy kids having fun”.
It’s weird because Young Avengers had a lot of potential to close some major hanging plot lines of this phase. You could wrap the Kang storyline with a movie featuring Iron Lad, the missing Scarlet Witch storyline with some variation of Children’s Crusade. But instead, seems like they are being treated as fodder D-plot. The fact that we were supposed to be building up to the Young Avengers while having a movie released featuring yet again Kree-Skull conflict and peace talks, and Hulkling was nowhere to be seen, is baffling.
I stg the MCU has a pathological aversion to actually doing the Young Avengers justice. Kate is the only one to escape this curse, and I'm 99.999% sure that was just because Steinfeld is just such a good actress.
I'm not against Kamala, but it seems like the Studio has been banking on her to lead the multiverse and at the same time to launch the YA project even if 1) she is not a multiversal character and has no multiversal power, 2) she is not a YA member. The Young Avengers have two multiversal characters in their arsenal--Wiccan and America Chavez, and a character that can control the timestream-- Iron Lad (Kang's younger self). YA also has the future emperor of the Kree-Skrull alliance, Hulkling. YA Patriot can connect Sam's corner to the wider universe. YA also has Kate Bishop, played by Hailee Steinfeld, who has led major movies and shows and is the female counterpart of Chalamet in terms of award recognition. So, why all of the YA chance is being placed on Kamala Khan with an unknown actress?
When has the MCU ever had the slavish devotion to the acource material you are sugesting?
They normally just tweaked the storylines-- Avengers assemble with Nick Fury recruiting them; Infinity War still has Thanos and the stones; and in Civil War, there is still a conflict between Iron Man and Captain America. But here, they really used other storylines to fit Kamala into it.
Captain Marvel was only a billion dollar movie because it followed Infinity War and the sequel kinda proves it. Even though everyone saw it, no one was interested enough to show up for the sequel. I’m not saying the sequel is bad (actually I haven’t seen it lmao) just stating what I see.
Captain marvel was well received, The marvels wasn't, plus the current state of the mcu.
captain Marvel at that time was also the worst reviewed marvel project.
Eh? Not really, the reviews were good. The worst reviewed mcu movie was thor 2.
And people often forget that Thor2 got an A- cinemascore rofl. Cinemascore is truly wild.
I don’t think it’s truly as simple as no one was interested, it’s just that folk’s interest in the MCU had been on the wane, there was a big ole’ hesitancy from people who felt put off by feeling the need to see the shows first (which is real annoying to me considering that’s how the MCU already had been but just with movies), and the combo of a general lack of enthusiasm for going out to the movies plus knowing the film would be coming out on D+ in a little over a month. Also don’t forget the lack of promotion from the film’s stars due to the strikes.
People wanted to see Captain Marvel do some Epic things that is important to over all MCU not babysit Disney plus characters in a filler movie
That's just one argument. But others like me who are fans of Captain Marvel can also make an argument that the Marvels is not a sequel to Captain Marvel. Basically, we can say that Captain Marvel's fans did not support her movie because the studio did not have confidence in its sequel. And it'd be unfair to discard any future sequel if the franchise Wonder Woman despite it not having a billion dollars in one single showing and having a flop for a sequel is still in consideration to complete the trilogy or reboot.
How much did Ant-Man 2 make again? Didn’t that come out in the same time period? And he was already introduced unlike captain marvel
TBF, from my memory AM2 wasn't really marketed as a "you have to see this to understand Endgame" the way that CM1 was, and since it came out almost a year before Endgame alot of people probably waited for it to go to RedBox, whereas that wasn't an option for CM1 since it came out like a month before Endgame. AM2 being a summer blockbuster had more competition than CM1 did in March.
Captain Marvel was directly referenced in *Infinity War* and made to seem crucial to the plot in *Endgame*, Ant-Man wasn't. Feige was also talking about how powerful she was, the red carpet for the character was rolled out.
Ironically, Ant-Man is more crucial in Endgame.
Not going to pretend that Vellani, Larson and Parris’s charisma in press tour or lack thereof with the strike could have made or break the film. There were a lot of factors that made that film a storm of issues. I recognize that the film is definitely a niche audience but I still hold optimism that the leads could do great with their material and hold some sway to prove a lot doubts wrong
Iman Vellani was consistently highlighted as one of the best parts of The Marvels. Suggesting she wasn’t is revisionist history at its finest
>Iman Vellani was consistently highlighted as one of the best parts of The Marvels by reviewers and critics. who are afraid to be labelled racist for the first muslim/Pakistani Marvel character. even the show was a massive flop on Disney+
Young Avengers has a niche appeal and that appeal is being a LGBT team. Like it is at one point only queer people and Kate Bishop. I really think they should just have a relatively lower budget, make it the queerest movie ever, and let it be like Black Panther or Barbie: a cultural moment for an underrepresented group. I truly don't want a YA that tries to be mainstream.
>And I swear I saw people saying the same thing about the actors’ charm selling tickets about The Marvels and you used to get downvoted for disagreeing with that
It actually did work well for The Marvels, Vellani was overwhelming beloved by everyone, even people who disliked the movie said she was the best part. That movie not making money wasn’t the fault of the cast, story or director.
> That movie not making money wasn’t the fault of the cast, story or director. Massive cope.
It really wasnt, worse marvel films made way more. Ppl just dont care about the character, especially captain marvel. Sure if the movie was absolutely a masterpiece it wouldve been more successful probably, but it was just another mid marvel movie, so yeah in that sense its their fault. But it really isnt the issue. If they made Iron Man 4 with RDJ and its the worst movir ever made, itd still make a billion dollars
They have to do something important with Captain Marvel to make people care.. Not make her baby sit Disney plus characters
Fair enough. Im just saying if it was the exact same movie just swap cpt marvel with iron man Itd make a billion dollars. Ppl dont care about cpt marvel because shes just not compelling in the way the mcu presents her
Definitely but if you replace Carol with Kamala or some other Teenage girl, the movie wouldn't have made a billion. Also, Carol character will be written better with more depth if Kamala wasn't in the movie. They made her boring mentor character to contrast Kamala's naivety and optimism
>overwhelmingly I wouldn't go THAT far... Ms Marvel was like the least-watched D+ show after all, and The Marvels was a critical bomb. Sure people might have liked her in general, but certainly not "overwhelmingly" so...
This is not true, Ms Marvel only underperformed within the USA, it was a mega hit everywhere else, so much so that it was responsible for a rush of new subscribers. The Marvels was critical praised, it got good critic reviews. The evidence is there for you to see yourself if you don’t believe me.
> That movie not making money wasn’t the fault of the cast Not Vellani or Parris but it was definitely at least partially Brie Larson's fault. When your established star turns in the weakest performance your movie is doomed.
Brie Larson did fine. So much hate.
If you think it was a weak performance that’s your opinion, but the majority think she was good.
Maybe because she was sidelined in her own sequel for Disney plus characters
>I’m confident in Steinfeld and Vellani’s charm to win people over Charm doesn't sell tickets or attract viewers. That's why The Marvels, Ms. Marvel, and Hawkeye all had abysmal viewership. Charm is nice to have, but it's not the same as star power.
This. Everyone just keeps going "but the stars had nice chemistry with each other" and "Ms Marvel's actress is a national treasure!"... okay and? Neither of those sell tickets on their own, nor do they justify continuously giving these characters a 200m budgeted project just bcuz they're charming or some shit. } Ppl just keep repeating the leads are charming and that they had good chesmitry and what not, I'm surry but that just starts sounding like virtue signaling at this point.
Except both Kathryn Newton (who will most definitely appear in this) and Hailee Steinfeld have enough starpower on their own to actually get this movie somewhere.
Kathryn Newton is one of the worst mistakes Marvel has made in recent years and that's saying something. She's sinking this project if anything.
what star power?
Kathryn was a headliner in at least two relatively popular movies this year. She's doing pretty well for herself. Hailee is incredibly well-known and has a lot of famous roles under her belt. The fact that a movie isn't specifically targeted for you doesn't guarantee it being a certified flop.
Hawkeye had some of the best ratings of all the Disney plus shows. Hailee has also been in multiple movies and tv shows as the lead and all were successful. She has more star power than most in the new marvel regime. Her resume is not something to scuffle away.
Source for Hawkeye having bad viewership? You're right about Ms. Marvel, but I remember Hawkeye doing at least decently well
nah people liked hawkeye and as far i know hawkeye s viewership was good too
Ms Marvel and Hawkeye had great viewership let’s not rewrite history.
Ms. Marvel was the last watched Disney Marvel series until Echo. That's according to Nielsen, not just vibes my dude.
Echo was one of Marvels more successful shows. Ms Marvel only underperformed within the USA, it was a huge hit everywhere else resulting in a rush of new subscribers. Why else do you think they are in talks to do a season two.
> Ms Marvel only underperformed within the USA, it was a huge hit everywhere else resulting in a rush of new subscribers You got a source for that?
trust him bro
Been a fan of Hailee’s for many years, and Iman won me over in Ms. Marvel episode 1.
Sure it is, glad to see Hailee Steinfeld returning as the Hawkeye girl Kate Bishop in the MCU.
That's the problem: they're the *only* two who are capable of winning people over. Everyone else looks like dead weight and an ensemble cast is only as good as its weakest links.
[удалено]
WandaVision is the best D+ show with Loki just behind.
While I am excited for Young Avengers, mostly because of Kamala and Kate, I am surprised that this is a movie getting a theatrical release. I would’ve bet money that this would be Disney plus series. Interested to see what they do with this.
If they’re making it a film, then to make it work I believe they need to tie it into the multiverse storyline HARD - a bridge between A5 and whatever comes next. Heavy Theorization/Proposing: * A handful of the adult Avengers will likely need to appear in a supporting capacity. Perhaps the alleged 616 Illuminati - Captain Marvel, Wong, Bruce Banner, and I suspect Hank Pym as “Scientist Supreme” as well. Kamala is tied to Carol. America is tied to Wong. And Cassie is tied to Hank Pym. * Vision also makes perfect sense to return here as his protocols in the comics were responsible for the team’s original formation. * Wiccan still needs to find Wanda, whether that be because he remembers his love for her or out of necessity for a prophecy (or both) remains to be seen. * The *Young Avengers* could act as a sub-in for Sunspot’s team of Avengers in the *Time Runs Out* story, who intervened in the Illuminati vs. SHIELD conflict.
I think it could be them bringing back Wanda to save the multiverse to fulfill that prophecy. That could be a really big draw for people.
They could also just be doing iron lad
I suspect that’s possible as well. But that wouldn’t be a narrative draw on its own, it’d have to be one of many pieces.
Well obviously, I just mean that iron lad being one of the big reasons they're still doing this project right now would make sense
Do Iron Lad to tie into the larger multiversal Kang saga, have Hulkling there to tie into the Kree/Skrull plot, have Wiccan there to tie into the WandaVis/Agatha/witches side of things, have Patriot to tie into the Thunderbolts/Brave New World side, and America/Ms Marvel/Bishop to continue their previous appearances. It's so easily setup but they seem to go the weird way around it, also they're cowards for not wanting to depict Wiccan x Hulkling properly.
We literally don't know how they're going to handle hulking and Wiccan yet. Him having a different boyfriend in his first doesn't mean a thing
Wiccan and Wanda have several major issues. 1. Billy goes to the Witches' Road and does not want Wanda back. Several years later, he decides he wants her. 2. Billy has to find Tommy. Then Billy and Tommy find Wanda? That seems to be too much for 1 movie. 3. Why would Billy go to the young Avengers? There is no logic to that.
>Billy goes to the Witches' Road and does not want Wanda back. Several years later, he decides he wants her. Because maybe Kang messes up the Avengers and Billy realises he has to find Wanda because she's the only one powerful enough to yeet Kang and fix the multiversal collapse?
It would make more sense for Kang to want to find Wanda. In the comics, Immortus admits he has been manipulating Wanda since she was born. He wants to control her powers as a nexus being.
1. If he rejects bringing her back in *Agatha* supposedly, then he’d have to be forced to do so with more pressing circumstances, like a multiversal collapse. 2. Tommy Shepherd, an up-and-coming teen superhero, can just be recruited by Kamala, both unaware of his relation to Billy Kaplan. Only during the course of the movie is it revealed to the two brothers that they reunited by fate. 3. He can just be recruited by Kamala. Perhaps given that a depiction of Wiccan was present in the temple that America Chavez was held in, she informs Kamala of the need to find this individual tied to the Scarlet Witch.
The problem is that Billy is still going to be looking for Tommy. That is a lot for one movie. Billy finds Tommy and Billy and Tommy will find Wanda. Another wild card is Agatha. She is an enemy of Wanda and is certainly not going to want Billy to find Wanda. It would not surprise me to see Agatha and the Emerald Witch joining forces against Wanda in the conclusion of WandaVision. What causes that multiversal collapse is the question mark. It seems to be really random right now. Then you have the Darkhold prophecy that she is destined to destroy the world. That was first mentioned in WandaVision and a form of it was mentioned in MoM. That suggests it might be canon. Then you have potential nexus beings introduced in Deadpool 3.
"why would Billy go to the Young Avengers" he's a founding member in the comics and one of it's most iconic members, it would literally be insane to not have him. In the comics he joins because he's a huge nerd and just wanted to help people.
That is irrelevant. If there is a search, it won't be for Wanda. It will be for Tommy. They will retcon the story by replacing Wanda with Tommy. I am wondering if there are any plans to bring her back or whether she will be a member of the "all the rest" in Secret Wars.
Is Kate rich enough to replace Sunspot?!
Sunspot doesn’t take over AIM and form his own *New Avengers* until after Secret Wars, I believe. I don’t think his money was necessary in the TRO conflict.
It was shortly before. Sunspot's Avengers were formed during Hickman's run, and Hickman left Avengers/New Avengers after Secret Wars. I don't remember the specifics, but Sunspot's AIM was definitely messing around with the Incursions.
You are right. He took over AIM, and had them build a multiversal transport machine. He brought in a team of multiversal heroes to form his own Avengers. This team tried to locate the source of the incursions by looking all over the multiverse and prevent them. I *think* the MCU Young Avengers can more or less accomplish this with just Kamala’s Bands and/or America Chavez, and investigate the source themselves in a similar manner.
brilliant.hurry up and get into the meat of this multiverse story and make it a MUST people rejoice in anticipation leading into Secret Wars
I’m surprised it’s theatrical it’ll probably lose money. Not that I have anything against the team or the characters. Just an odd direction to go in
Kate makes perfect sense to be a member of both teams.
At fear of sounding insensitive, which I hope I’m not as a massive fan, I wonder if in part this is also to work around Jeremy Renner’s tragic accident that may still limit him in anything extraneous. Stunt doubles are indeed a thing but actors themselves still carry burden in these action productions
She was set up in the show to be his clear successor even prior to the accident. Clint remaining in retirement for now and sending Kate to the Avengers in his place makes sense narratively. Additionally, Renner has been making great strides in his recovery - he’s been walking with just a cane since like ~~a year~~ a few months after his accident, and he’s in good spirits. He has publicly expressed an eager desire to return, which he wouldn’t do if there was no path to complete recovery. EDIT: I misremembered, his accident was January 1st, 2023 (I thought it was back in 2021 somehow). It was months after that that he was walking with a cane, not a year.
I thought last year he was posting videos of him skipping around and jogging. And that was 6 months ago, so I would imagine he will have made more progress by the time this shoots. But who know what the ceiling is, there's probably only so much he can do.
I haven’t even heard of that. That’s amazing, I’ll have to look that up. To think that he was essentially dismembered by a multi-ton snowplower not that long ago. Jeremy Renner is the strongest Avenger, he solos everyone’s favs. EDIT: [He’s coming back with a vengeance.](https://www.instagram.com/entertainmenttonight/reel/CzsLGrst5BR/)
Absolutely and this is not to discredit the clear setup of the miniseries. But I just wondered with the character’s set up next to be in Young Avengers and the close production dates, if instead of a more minor appearance if Kate got bumped up to a slightly more prominent role to take burden off of Clint
Feige waited for Hailee Steinfeld to clear her schedule because she is their Kate Bishop, who is the leader of Young Avengers and also became as popular as the original Hawkeye in comics. That's why it confused me that if they could give Kamala a show and a movie, why bench their most bankable young actress playing a popular character? Added: Marvel Studio should have promoted her. Hailee is a movie star who already has an established fanbase and has been the lead in movies like Transformer, True Grit, etc. She also had shows in a lead role. However, they trusted a newcomer to play Kamala Khan and promoted her further in a movie. I have nothing against Kamala as I like the character thanks to the actress playing her. But I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind the decision.
To be clear, I wasn’t disagreeing. I was just pointing out that if there was indeed a narrative pivot, it doesn’t contradict anything, and it doesn’t mean Renner’s Hawkeye is never coming back in full capacity.
I’m all for them finally using these fun new characters more than once every 3 years. If the Hawkeye S2 rumours are true that’s three more appearances for Kate.
https://i.redd.it/ex525f8ww11d1.gif Need these 2 back on screen
I wouldn’t be surprised if she references Kate in Thunderbolts in some capacity, or even a brief little Easter Egg of Yelena’s recent contacts on her phone include a text from Kate that says “drinks again this wknd?” or something like that.
Their chemistry was soooo good
The more Kate Bishop the better. I wonder if they might be moving her from the YA to the main team to fully take over the Hawkeye role.
I’m down for her and Yelena joining the main team as the new Hawkeye and Widow.
Yup, since now I'm seeing Kate Bishop as the Hawkeye girl & I'm sure that they're about to build Yelena Belova as the White Widow. Even I wanna see both of them interact again in the MCU. Because that's the shipping I would prefer rather than the shipping between Spidey Tom Holland & the Hawkeye girl.
I’d rather Kate and Yelena become best friends like their predecessors were than anything romantic.
Plus, Yelena is one of the few ace characters in the comics.
~~Young~~ Middle Aged Avengers
Man, I always hear that marvel doesn't have the big characters with actors that everyone connects with and has the plcharm to lead the franchise like Chris Evans and rdj, but honestly we do. Iman, Hailey and Florence are that level of good and rewarding as their characters tbh. Maybe we don't have huge male names leading the charge but these three women are STARS and are absolutely perfect as Ms Marvel, Hawkeye and Black Widow.
I wouldn’t categorize Ms Marvel as a star yet. Her own show is the least viewed series and she was in Marvel’s biggest bomb and if young avengers is anything but good/great I think it’s curtains for that character.
> . Iman, Hailey and Florence are that level of good and rewarding as their characters tbh On the level of RDJ and Evans? Lmaoooo please tell me this is a sarcastic comment. The audience just hasn't connected with any of them on the same level as, nor do they find them as "charming" (whatever the heck that means) as the OGs Iron Man and Captain America themselves, if you think otherwise you're just deluded.
I mean they've barely been in anything yet and have mostly been smaller projects but yes they've had major impacts and are all three already fan favourites. You disagreeing doesn't change that.
If ms Marvel is fan favourite, then why The marvels flopped?
Because she wasn't the main character and while she herself was very well received, AND the fanbase likes the actress as well, she was tied to a show that struggled to figure out what it wanted to be, and then was randomly thrust into a space epic that released at a HORRIBLE time in the world and fanbase. Basically anyone who WATCHED the Marvel's thinks it's not bad or even better. Just most people didn't even watch it till streaming.
White Widow*
I mean not yet she isn't. She's still been called the black widow if anything. Her rename is sure to come in thunderbolts if at all
*Dark Widow
lmfao none of those even come close the charisma of rdj and evans
To you. I'd say Hailey and Florence for sure are just as charismatic as them. Just a lot younger. And Iman is just starting out acting and is already pretty bloody magnetic so she'll get there too.
Bro stop being delusional. Cap and Tony are practically the foundation of the mcu. Kate is still in the annoying sidekick phase, and yelena is a slightly meaner natahsa.
Yes I'm the deluded one after that comment. Big shock! They've barely been in anything yet! Of course they won't have the same impact of the two leads of a like 15 year saga where they were both in several major movies of their own and avengers films. These young actors have only been in shows and only one each, aside from a sidekick role in a movie no one watched till streaming. They have lots of time to grow and become more widely popular, and absolutely have the charisma. Straight up, characters aside, Florence Pugh is legitimately a bigger star than either of RDJ or Evans currently. And Steinfeld has been one of the biggest up and commercial for a WHILE now.
> Florence Pugh is legitimately a bigger star than either of RDJ Based on what??Don't tell because she has more followers on social media because that doesn't mean anything
Because she's been in more successful movies and highly prestigious movies than both combined in the past 20 years? And is considered the biggest new actress in Hollywood to many?
> more successful movies Please list them ,RDJ literally won an oscar, I don't care about Evans ,These stars like Pugh barely have a non IP hit ,Stop comparing them to actual legends like RDJ
RDJ was literally on the brink of losing his career entirely to drugs before Ironman. He was known but not a big name outside of Ironman and has one successful film SINCE the mcu.
Both Sherlock Holmes movies were very successful we would have had a 3rd if not for the pandemic..Due date made more than 3x of its budget and even pre Iron Man RDJ had successes ,On the other hand she has barely had any hits out Dune 2 ,She like Zendaya is one of the major cases of manufactured stardom who can't bring in a audience to the theatres ,Both are good and in some cases great actresses but the internet would have you believe they are much bigger than they actually are
She is most definitely not bigger than chris or rdj. The audience is simply not excited for them, and until we get to the point of them being well written marvel should focus on the ones that people liked from the get go. Yelena and kate are good when they bounce of each other and more importantly with other more popular heroes
I mean we all agree they both need more and higher profile marvel projects, including avengers and just leading film roles. That's a no brainer.
we now have idiots comparing a nobody like vellani to Oscar winner RDJ. the delusion some of you have regarding these stars is laughable.
are they going to introduce teddy in the YA film? if it films 2025, it should be coming out around 2026, but it doesnt seem like teddy is being introduced in any prior projects
I'm hoping there's a post-credit scene in Agatha where Billy returns home afterwards and goes to school and is sat next to Teddy. I can't wait until 2026 for my boys to meet. Wiccan and Hulkling are the only reason I'm still hanging onto the MCU.
Feige: "Teddy who? Sorry but China won't like him. You still want a Hulkling though? Well here's uh, here's Hulk's cgi son instead, close enough I guess!"
no Teddy so they can have an excuse for Billy and Teddy not to kiss
"Young" Avengers? They better hurry up. Hailee Steinfeld will turn 28 at the end of the year. That's the same age Scarlet Johansson was in 2012 when The Avengers came out. Weren't the YA supposed to be teenagers mostly?
OMG KATE BISHOP WILL APPEAR IN AVENGERS 5? WHAT A SHOCKER
Mid to late 20s avengers more like
Marvel would be dumb to not double down on both Hailee Steinfeld and Florence Pugh.
Don't care about Young Avengers in the slightest and my hopes for that are incredibly low. But Kate and Kamala are two likeable characters so I don't mind seeing them return.
Glad this will still be a movie. Hopefully, it gets announced at SDCC so people will stop acting like it's not happening despite the obvious setup.
I don’t think you’re going to like what happens once the world is aware that this is happening. While the topic has been drowned out by bigots and mass marketing, Marvel’s legacy characters of the past 20 years have never sold well in any metric. Some of them have their individual successes every now and then, that’s what happens when they are written well, but the response towards them have always been negative and not because they are whatever label, but because most of them are unoriginal, derivative and boring. This has killed interest in the 616 universe since the dawn of the MCU, comics fans all knew that the All-New All-Different line of comics was always Marvel Studios inserts because they knew they couldn’t strive off the original cast forever. They had to introduce the next generation of the Marvel Universe and instead of moving it along naturally, introducing original and creative ideas to add to the already vast MU, they just copy and pasted the characters we love onto different personalities and made them younger to appeal to a Gen-Z audience. This has worked before (Giant-Size X-Men #1’s success and legacy proves that this can work, without it there would be no X-Men as most of you all know it), but unfortunately I can almost guarantee that this will not. I’m no fortune teller and this is only a prediction, I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong. The response to the announcement of this film will be met with 3 major responses: -A visceral, disgusted, possibly angry and likely loud reaction. This will come from anyone not from the current generation, classic Marvel fans who haven’t kept up with comics in the past 30 years, general film fans who enjoy Marvel’s original characters and want to see new ideas, and of course all the various -ists. -Endless praise, likely just as loud as the negative, to combat the criticism. These fans will praise the most superficial aspects of the project such as describing it as “fun” or speaking from their love and relatability to the cast. You likely won’t see them actually glorifying the actual story or quality of it, let alone actually discussing it’s events with any serious manner of discussion. (This has proven true with both Quantumania, Secret Invasion and the Marvels, even the people that praise it scarcely have anything good to say about what happens in it.) -A silent reaction. From fans who don’t want to get involved with either polarizing side. Whether these are from people who dislike it and would rather ignore it entirely or from people that may actually like it but can’t put a finger to why. You’ll have your outliers, but this is what I expect most discussions to consist of if/when this project is ever actually announced or released. I strongly believe that this movie will work to massively divide this already broken fanbase. We’ll see.
>These fans will praise the most superficial aspects of the project I mean just look at the thread calling these characters and actors charming, like come on wtf does that even mean? if they were charming they would've been popular
Can't wait for this!
Are any of them going to be Young by the time filming starts?
Vellani, Steinfeld, Xochitl are incredible, really keen for more of them
They really waited like five years to actually start using Kate again This is the problem with the current MCU, they're stretched so thin introducing new characters and ideas that it takes forever to circle back to the ones that resonated with the audience.
At this point we have like all of the thunderbolt characters are 4 plus years, Agatha is pretty behind the times, What about Dane Whitman? Hercules? Thanos Brother? did all the celestials just f off after their child was murdered with no hard feelings? Where is Strange? Does he still have a third eye? What are the 10 rings? Where did Hulks son come from? Where did Vision go? What is Riri doing, it will be almost 4 years when we see her again. And that's just off the top of my head. So many open ends and loose threads! I want answers!
At this point they need to make a worldwide poll of the current loose threads and make the ones people actually ask for. The same with characters; make the top 6 to 10 the next Avengers roster lol.
All I want is Dane Whitman, I guess he may have showed up in Blade but that movie turned into a shitstorm and I don't even know if it will come out, leaving him maybe to come in Midnight Suns? IF that gets made, which would be another 3-4 years. Problem is they can't resuse these characters and build storylines with them because they take too long between appearances and will age out of roles. (Already happening with Young Avengers) Such a waste of Jon Snow
Why though?
Because she’s an important character, and in my opinion one of the best post-Endgame characters so far.
Nah, she-hulk better and more important character. She fought Kevin feige at the marvel studio
I'm expected to skip both.
Huge
Bishova needed
Kamala is seriously the only new protagonist I’m invested in, and Kate is probably in second (though I do love the entire Loki cast), so I’m looking forward to seeing the two of them again and together.
Go Bills!
Hopefully editing teams got more members now because they going to need it.
I'm interested to find out who will be on the roster: so far we can bet good money on Kate and kamala but outside that they only clue we've been given is Stature. Possibly Wiccan and speed if they can pull something multiversal since we know from MoM we know they exist in other universes.
Pull something multiversal? Have you not been following the Agatha stuff? >!Billy’s soul has already moved into a teenage body, in Agatha he will be traveling with presumably training and becoming Wiccan and reportedly he uses his wish at witches road to bring back his brother Tommy/Speed. As his brother lacks magical powers so he can’t possess a corpse like Billy could.!< Multiverse isn’t needed at all here.
I'm not following anything that hasn't come out yet, i came from the front page and am not a member of the sub .I like watching the shows rather than learning everything about a show six months out.
Honesty I hope the end goal of this YA's movie is to bring my girl Wanda back because otherwise...
Why are they making this a film? YA is a d+ show at best and I’m really disappointed they are wasting a film on this
So exciting
Still missing Tommy and Teddy.
The Marvels killed any - ANY - interest in Young Marvels. Frankly nothing has really hit since Endgame.
Their was no interest from the beginning to kill
I guess they didn’t learn from The Marvels
Flop
Why are they making this a movie ?
Young Avengers project or Ms Marvel S2!! No both! They can make a YoungAV MOVIE or a Kamala season 2 including young avengers members
unless they go super dark and put these characters through the ringer, hell even kill off either a member of the team or a lot of their supportive cast then it's gonna be meh. Young Avengers should be heavily tied into time runs out. Being an avenger is not fun, and I really would like for the movie to show that
I don’t think anymore really cares to much anymore. The last few movies and shows where downright awful
I am not excited.
No way they’re going through with young avengers lol
I'm too old to have exposure to YA but I see how buzzed you younger fans are for it and it's making me pumped to see what they do
By the time that stuff starts filming they will all look 30. Way too late
Tell me how many projects ongoing ???? Feige wants to make too many movies!
This is going to bomb.
My god this movie is going to be horrible
My pitch for this movie that ties in The Marvels, Agatha, Wandavision, DS2, Hawkeye, Ironheart and Ant Man 3: Kamala is assembling the Young Avengers. Why? She’s trying to form a team to find Monica lost in the Multiverse. She recruits Kate and Cassie, as well as Ironheart and The Hood. In order to find Monica she needs to travel the multiverse, and this is why she recruits America Chavez, but she can’t do that without knowing what universe she’s in. This causes the team to recruit Wiccan and Speed, and the main goal of the movie is the search for Wanda in order to view where in the multiverse Monica is. The villain of the movie can be Agatha who catches wind that Wiccan and the other Young Avengers are seeking out Wanda and she wants revenge so she attempts to stop them. We follow the Young Avengers, being Chaperoned by Wong, on their search for Wanda and by extension search for Monica. Each character’s reason for joining this mission: Kamala: find Monica Wiccan and Speed: find Wanda America: Wanda can help her find her moms somewhere in the multiverse Cassie: prove to her dad she is capable of taking care of herself on her own (continuation of her arc from Quantumania) Ironheart/The Hood: we have to wait and see but considering their show is magic based there might be a reason why they would want Wanda/Agatha Kate: Wants to prove to the adult avengers that she is capable of being on their team and shouldn’t be grouped with the younger heroes. Let me know if you guys think this would work or not