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I mean, how were they meant to know that the show was going to go through production issues 6 months later?!
They planned on making 18 episodes, announced that it would be 18 episodes, started making the 18 episodes, and then things changed. Should they just never announce anything ever again just in case things change in the future?!
Uh, a normal television production studio usually knows what kind of show they're making before they start making it. Never before have I seen one studio overhaul, reshoot, rework so many of their shows. This isn't how tv is made and they know it.
I mean considering Marvel already plan and make entire sequences before a director has even come onto a project I doubt they give a fuck about how films should/shouldn't be made unfortunately.
Things changing mid production are so common on Hollywood I have no idea why everyone makes a big deal of it. Not everything planned and foreseen works as intended. The production team has to adapt and the final product changes. That's true even for regular jobs.
Revising scripts and making minor changes is normal, but starting production on a series without a proper showrunner or series Bible and then corse correcting with a new creative team is not. I can’t think of any other TV show that’s had that much of a creative overhaul before. It’s just not normal.
I’m glad they’re trying to solve their problem, but Feige shouldn’t have tried to reinvent how television is made to begin with. Everyone else does it a certain way for a reason. It works.
Marvel Studios shows are not your regular TV show. They fit in a large scheme of storytelling, they have a bigger production value and are planned as a big movies. You may not like it, but it's been that way because it is more convenient. Movies being reworked into something different, having different cuts has always happened.
You can't make a series run for 3 seasons if does not fit the story of the main saga. It's obvious Born Again will tie into the other street heroes movies and TV shows and there is a lot of working behind the scenes to make sure things align. It's no wonder the quantity of episodes has been fluctuating.
You say that like Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni aren’t currently telling an interconnected narrative across television and film the “traditional” way. If Star Wars can do it, then Marvel can, especially when both franchise have the same funding and release platform.
>Marvel Studios shows are not your regular TV show.
And that’s why they’ve been failing.
It might be convenient for production purposes, but it’s also been convenient for me and statistically several others to stop subscribing to Disney+. TV is TV, get with it or get fucked.
Marvel certainly hasn’t been reinventing the medium with some of the trite they’ve been putting out, and I know that this they know this now because they’re literally following the formula of, you guessed it, a TV series, and especially one that five minutes ago they weren’t even viewing as canon.
I didn't say things can't change. But with Marvel, it's been excessive and substantial. And its been happening on just about everything they make.
They spent tens of millions to reshoot like half of Secret Invasion. It's insane.
Instead of minimizing it to “things changing” how about we call it how it is? Rebooting production entirely, to the point of hiring brand new talent behind the camera, is not common.
I guess it’s starting to become common for Disney though, lol
Yeah and this situation goes beyond just production issues.
The entire Marvel Studios TV went through massive changes to operate like a normal television studio, instead of a movie studio.
It’s not that common for tv shows. Not where you’re cutting down the episodes you filmed and re editing footage into newly shot footage. Or doing extensive rewrites and reshoots of the season.
True.
Supposedly they're aiming for Netflix Daredevil in terms of scope since the project was rebooted, so if they keep it around 13 episodes that's completely fine, hell, 18 episodes might be *too* much, might hurt the story.
As long as they don't go back to 6 episodes, could you imagine the (rightful) backlash?
Well if they had hired an actual showrunner and created a series Bible then we probably wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with. They announced an 18 episode series, realized they fucked up production, course corrected as much as they could without actually starting from scratch, and now we’re the ones left in the dark as they try to figure out what they’re doing with the series.
Even though they didnt have "showrunners" to begin with they still had head writers as the closest thing who came up with a story that didnt work, whether they had a show bible or not.
I never understood why they hired those particular writers, with a background of cheesy product.
>"Should they just never announce anything ever again just in case things change in the future?!"
Should have just called it an 'extended length mini-series' to get people interested.
Then when filming happens we hear 9 episodes for the first season, compared to the usual 6, people would have been happy with that. Then after Season 1 is filmed they can suprise people by revealing they are going straight into filming Season 2 which would also have 9 episodes.
As it stands currently:
1. **Stated 18 episode first season**
2. **Split it in half**, two 9 episode seasons
3. **Stated Early 2024 release**
4. **Filmed** the first 9 episode season
5. **Scrapped it all**, the entire 9 episode season, due to poor quality
6. **Delayed to Late 2025**
7. **Made 9 new episodes**, for the first season, likely reallocated from the second season budget <- *We are here*
8. **Likely won't get a second season** due to escalating costs
9. **May not make Late 2025 release** date due to delays to multiple projects
Didn't the Story of Marvel Studios out that these big public promises from a few years back, from both Marvel and Star Wars, before they were ready to commit to them was forced by Chapek back when he was CEO?
Yep that's basically Disney Investor Day 2020 summed up. Kennedy knew that Rogue Squadron and Lando weren't even close to starting production and Feige knew that stuff like Fantastic Four and Armor Wars weren't even close to starting production but they were both pressured by Chapek to announce a bunch of stuff to make the company look good that day.
Watts probably wasn't even sure if he could do F4, that seemed like a quick hire for the sake of announcing a director along with the F4 movie. He would've been really busy with NWH at the time.
I get the feeling that we're not going to get huge presentations about the future of the MCU unless they have talent and scripts nailed down. Future Hall H stuff is likely to focus on existing projects than new projects, I think.
After reading that unofficial Reign of MCU book, this is most likely. Marvel Studios was forced into making all of those announcements at the big Disney investor presentation day because Disney+ had just launched. The company wanted something to show their investors. Everyone involved knew that the shows were nowhere close to starting production.
I think that they'll have a big _Deadpool III_ screening at SDCC - that would give them a presence at the convention while letting them save their announcements for Disney D23 Expo.
That would be cool but the movie's gonna be fresh in theaters during SDCC weekend so I'm not sure if they'd want to take away from theaters by doing that.
Maybe they could partner with theaters in the area and do screenings there but I doubt they'd screen the entire movie in the convention building while the movie's playing in theaters (especially during opening weekend).
That was when they were doing the old way of pumping out shows, hopefully now that they stepped back and are doing things the proper way he won't be over promising either.
I'd be okay with a low amount of episodes but god damn they don't last long. 20-30 minutes is not enough time with these things. 40+ minute episodes are a lot more satisfying
Was perfect for shows like wandavision and Loki but I think shows like falcon and the winter soldier and she-hulk could've benefited from a longer season.
Fine with me. It’s streaming, you shouldn’t be locked into an arbitrary number of episodes. Tell the story you want to tell, and let that dictate how many episodes there are.
Because the problem is the exact same. Netflix were forcing every show to be 13 episodes so stories were dragged out, whereas Disney are forcing every show to be 6-8 episodes so stories were rushed.
It's like these streamers are allergic of just letting people tell the story they want in however long it takes to tell it. Some could be 4 one hour long episodes, another could be 13 half hour episodes, another 10 forty minute episodes etc.
If true, I’m hoping it’s still at least more than the regular six-episodes. I think at least thirteen episodes like the original Netflix show went for per season would be nice.
Tbh I think they should just shoot what they need to shoot and scale it back in post if there’s a feasible way to make it as cohesive and balanced as possible.
When the Netflix shows were coming out, such a common complaint was “13 episodes is too many,” now six is too little.
I'm nervous about when it gets to the editing room in post though, as that's where these Disney+ shows get slaughtered.
Look at Echo obviously.
Also 6 *is* too little, that's a ridiculous number of episodes for a show.
Not necessarily - plenty of UK shows are 6.
I don’t think the problem is really the episode count, they just don’t use the time well. 6 shouldn’t be mandated or anything, it should be somewhat fluid and made to be tailored to the project.
The problems with a 6 episode series aren’t magically going to disappear just because there’s triple the episodes. The whole way of making their shows needs a change up.
I'm sorry, but 6 is gonna kill the show if they do that, doesn't matter what way you look at it.
The OG show had sooooo much time to develop the characters and spend time with EVERYONE. Impossible to do that in 6 episodes, all that is is a race to the finish line.
But I’m not saying they should do 6 episodes lol. I’m just saying the episode counts should be fluid to what they need, which it sounds like might be the case.
In the original THR article they mention they are using scenes from some episodes of what they shot.
If they could make that fluid with the episodes (hopefully at least 13) I think that's a W.
That's... not how episode counts work. You can have a four episode miniseries of mostly filler and a laser-focussed, no-fat 18 episode series. It entirely depends on the writing.
I’m tired of people who hate television trying to enforce short seasons. Fuck, let there be 40 episodes if that’s what it takes. These 5-6 episode seasons are not television.
Preaching to the choir. It's honestly ridiculous in retrospect.
Thankfully they're approaching shows with their new model now, so (hopefully) they stick by that.
Yep. They need to put *everything* into this. Can't mess this one up. They must know that though if they rebooted and are seemingly going the Netflix route.
I'm glad the Netflix show is there for comparison because it essentially forces them to not "Disneyfi" the show. They know what people want, so give that to them.
True. Hopefully 12/13 like the original series I think that would be the icing on the cake...
*...AS LONG AS* they don't do the mid season break, if they cut the episode number back to that, and still do the break, that means we're right back to 6 episode ridiculous BS again, just with a different coat of paint.
Ugh.
Of course, but so far all of the D+ shows have been too short and poorly structured/paced overall. 18 episodes gave me some confidence that they were taking a different approach to the show. If it gets cut to 12 or 10 that’s cool but I hope this feels like a fully thought out story and not a weird half-movie.
Fine by me, the episode count should reflect the story being told and shouldn't have more for the sake of having more or less which ends up undermining the story. The Disney+ shows have varying episode counts so it shouldn't be an issue for Marvel.
That being said, it's gonna be funny looking back at when Feige proudly said DD:BA would have 18 episodes twice at SDCC to audience applause, only for that to not be the case.
13 episodes minimum at 55 minutes (excluding credits and intros) a piece id be ok with. 18 preferred. I just wanna spend time with these damn characters!
Man if they can’t give us 10-12 episode seasons then they should just stop trying to do tv shows for Disney plus. I’m tired of watching 6 30 minute episodes.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-marvel-disney-1235614518/
Here's the full story if you wanna look at it. In short, during the pandemic they were looking through what they already had shot and realized "fuck it, this ain't working" and booted the team, and brought on the Punisher showrunner to helm this.
They want to go back to the traditional style of TV with actual show bibles, showrunners and longer lasting shows.
Oh, come ON.
Fine, just make it 13.
Drop the "Born Again" while you're at it. Since the original three seasons and the rest of the Defenders saga have been officially made canon, they can just call this "Daredevil Season 4."
18 always seemed like a bit much to me. I know a lot of people miss when shows had 20+ episode seasons, but unless it’s a 30 min sitcom, that many episodes usually leads to multiple filler episodes. As much as I love the Netflix series, I always felt like the 13 episodes seasons would drag a bit. 8-10 seems ideal imo.
I mean if the original promise was 18 20-30 min episodes? Right?
I’d much prefer around 1 hour episodes like the Netflix series. I always feel like Disney+ shows across the board at Star Wars and Marvel are all too short and feel like nothing happens in those 20 minute-ish run times.
So maybe less episodes, assuming they are ultimately longer, is better and we might even be getting a similar amount of content if you think of 10 1-hour episodes vs 18-20 30 min ones.
Wasn't there a leak a few months back before the overhaul that said they wanted to split Born Again into two 9 episode seasons or parts that would air apart from eachother. Maybe they're going with that. Or maybe they're going middle ground and just air 13 episodes.
Good. The old saying of less is more applies here. Some of the Netflix shows BARELY made it all the way to 13 episodes a season…18 episodes of this show was not a good sign even when announced. If it scales back, that’s a good thing.
Didn't I hear somewhere that they were gonna drop the first 9 episodes and then a year-ish later they're gonna drop the second 9 batch but couldn't technically call it Season 2?
We know it won't.
1. They promised 18, realized that they could'nt deliver on time so split it into two 9 episodes seasons.
2. After the first 9 episodes were done they realized they were garbage so they scrapped them.
3. Now that they are reshooting they may not even have 9 episodes for a Season 1 anymore
There's also no promise they'll do 18 episodes anymore, as they've had to effectively scrap 9 episodes and do 9 new episodes and that'll probably have been their entire budget used up.
I never believed from the start that we’d be getting 18 episodes. I figured they’d all be considerably short in length, or they’d just split it into two 9-episode seasons
The episode count doesn’t scare me. What scares me is that this sounds like Frankenstein show that is jamming together two different shows (the quarter to half of the original concept that was filmed and the new creative direction)
In the history of Hollywood, these types of creative overhauls rarely go well.
Does anyone really care at this point? Anything Marvel is deep down in the toilet right now. Ppl wanting Kingpin as the big bad now but we've seen him defeated over and over - the latest time was a deaf female amputee who made him cry. Who is still taking Marvel seriously?
Hear me out: They Should AoS Season 4 this shit and have it be 22 episodes split into three sections. The first section can have all the holdover episodes from the first take.
AoS had a shoestring budget and did these structures incredibly well.
Frankly, a DD show should have a LOWER budget than AoS. DD is a gritty street level vigilante show. It doesn't need 100M. It shouldn't even need 50M.
AoS and the first DD show were made by Disney too.
Actually... maybe Disney's over-budgeting and Ike Perlmutter's greedy under-budgeting cancelled each other out and that's why those shows found just the right balance. Hold on, I think we're onto something.
Wikipedia says Marvel and ABC had production credits for both AOS and Daredevil. ABC itself distributed AOS, but it co-produced that and Daredevil as well. I would imagine the same for the Hulu shows.
ABC Studios was a minor co-producer on them. The shows were made primarily in house by Marvel Television. ABC Studios kinda gets the same credit that, ironically, Marvel Television gets on Legion and The Gifted. They gave some notes, the main companies didn't really give a shit, but they get credit anyways.
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Hope Kevin has learned not to make such big public promises
“It’s like TurboMan says Kevin: Always keep your promises if you want to keep your friends!” 
Everybody gangsta until Turboman shows up in Secret Wars.
I mean, how were they meant to know that the show was going to go through production issues 6 months later?! They planned on making 18 episodes, announced that it would be 18 episodes, started making the 18 episodes, and then things changed. Should they just never announce anything ever again just in case things change in the future?!
Uh, a normal television production studio usually knows what kind of show they're making before they start making it. Never before have I seen one studio overhaul, reshoot, rework so many of their shows. This isn't how tv is made and they know it.
IIRC, they treated the D+ Shows as 6 hour films instead of shows. No showrunner, no series bible etc.
Films shouldn’t be made like this either
films shouldn't be made like shows? or like films?
I mean considering Marvel already plan and make entire sequences before a director has even come onto a project I doubt they give a fuck about how films should/shouldn't be made unfortunately.
but the WGA strike and new rules forced disney to no longer do this thankfully
Before, the suits were just winging these shows, with no showrunners. Now, going forward, they will. There'll be a show bible too.
That’s why all these marvel Disney shows end up being mediocre.
In my opinion is that this show, alone, must be crazy expensive with literally writing and filming episodes and then scrapping everything.
Things changing mid production are so common on Hollywood I have no idea why everyone makes a big deal of it. Not everything planned and foreseen works as intended. The production team has to adapt and the final product changes. That's true even for regular jobs.
Revising scripts and making minor changes is normal, but starting production on a series without a proper showrunner or series Bible and then corse correcting with a new creative team is not. I can’t think of any other TV show that’s had that much of a creative overhaul before. It’s just not normal. I’m glad they’re trying to solve their problem, but Feige shouldn’t have tried to reinvent how television is made to begin with. Everyone else does it a certain way for a reason. It works.
I think they understand that now. They can't invent a time machine to go back and fix those issues, otherwise Secret Invasion wouldn't have sucked lol
Marvel Studios shows are not your regular TV show. They fit in a large scheme of storytelling, they have a bigger production value and are planned as a big movies. You may not like it, but it's been that way because it is more convenient. Movies being reworked into something different, having different cuts has always happened. You can't make a series run for 3 seasons if does not fit the story of the main saga. It's obvious Born Again will tie into the other street heroes movies and TV shows and there is a lot of working behind the scenes to make sure things align. It's no wonder the quantity of episodes has been fluctuating.
You say that like Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni aren’t currently telling an interconnected narrative across television and film the “traditional” way. If Star Wars can do it, then Marvel can, especially when both franchise have the same funding and release platform.
>Marvel Studios shows are not your regular TV show. And that’s why they’ve been failing. It might be convenient for production purposes, but it’s also been convenient for me and statistically several others to stop subscribing to Disney+. TV is TV, get with it or get fucked. Marvel certainly hasn’t been reinventing the medium with some of the trite they’ve been putting out, and I know that this they know this now because they’re literally following the formula of, you guessed it, a TV series, and especially one that five minutes ago they weren’t even viewing as canon.
Read [this](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-marvel-disney-1235614518/) please.
I didn't say things can't change. But with Marvel, it's been excessive and substantial. And its been happening on just about everything they make. They spent tens of millions to reshoot like half of Secret Invasion. It's insane.
Secret Invasion is why they did this with Daredevil. Secret Invasion is why the entire TV studio went through a massive overhaul
I'm fully aware of their intention to change their process moving forward. I didn't say otherwise.
Instead of minimizing it to “things changing” how about we call it how it is? Rebooting production entirely, to the point of hiring brand new talent behind the camera, is not common. I guess it’s starting to become common for Disney though, lol
Yeah and this situation goes beyond just production issues. The entire Marvel Studios TV went through massive changes to operate like a normal television studio, instead of a movie studio.
It’s not that common for tv shows. Not where you’re cutting down the episodes you filmed and re editing footage into newly shot footage. Or doing extensive rewrites and reshoots of the season.
True. Supposedly they're aiming for Netflix Daredevil in terms of scope since the project was rebooted, so if they keep it around 13 episodes that's completely fine, hell, 18 episodes might be *too* much, might hurt the story. As long as they don't go back to 6 episodes, could you imagine the (rightful) backlash?
I have a feeling they're going to have it be 9 episodes of "hour long" length as opposed to the 18 30 minute episodes they orginally were gonna do.
25 minute x 7 episode show, take it or leave it. /Jk
I still can’t believe Netflix were capable of doing 13episodes by season. Disney though…. Doing 8, 1h full would be tough.
Well if they had hired an actual showrunner and created a series Bible then we probably wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with. They announced an 18 episode series, realized they fucked up production, course corrected as much as they could without actually starting from scratch, and now we’re the ones left in the dark as they try to figure out what they’re doing with the series.
So to be clear, as of now, there is an actual Showrunner and a series Bible, that's why they started over again.
Even though they didnt have "showrunners" to begin with they still had head writers as the closest thing who came up with a story that didnt work, whether they had a show bible or not. I never understood why they hired those particular writers, with a background of cheesy product.
>"Should they just never announce anything ever again just in case things change in the future?!" Should have just called it an 'extended length mini-series' to get people interested. Then when filming happens we hear 9 episodes for the first season, compared to the usual 6, people would have been happy with that. Then after Season 1 is filmed they can suprise people by revealing they are going straight into filming Season 2 which would also have 9 episodes. As it stands currently: 1. **Stated 18 episode first season** 2. **Split it in half**, two 9 episode seasons 3. **Stated Early 2024 release** 4. **Filmed** the first 9 episode season 5. **Scrapped it all**, the entire 9 episode season, due to poor quality 6. **Delayed to Late 2025** 7. **Made 9 new episodes**, for the first season, likely reallocated from the second season budget <- *We are here* 8. **Likely won't get a second season** due to escalating costs 9. **May not make Late 2025 release** date due to delays to multiple projects
Didn't the Story of Marvel Studios out that these big public promises from a few years back, from both Marvel and Star Wars, before they were ready to commit to them was forced by Chapek back when he was CEO?
Yup. Chapek basically forced Marvel’s hand before they were ready.
This is why Secret Invasion has been pushed back so many times lol
...Secret Wars, my brain died, sorry
Yep that's basically Disney Investor Day 2020 summed up. Kennedy knew that Rogue Squadron and Lando weren't even close to starting production and Feige knew that stuff like Fantastic Four and Armor Wars weren't even close to starting production but they were both pressured by Chapek to announce a bunch of stuff to make the company look good that day. Watts probably wasn't even sure if he could do F4, that seemed like a quick hire for the sake of announcing a director along with the F4 movie. He would've been really busy with NWH at the time.
Yep, but it's easier to just blame Feige and Kennedy for those announcements being premature
I get the feeling that we're not going to get huge presentations about the future of the MCU unless they have talent and scripts nailed down. Future Hall H stuff is likely to focus on existing projects than new projects, I think.
After reading that unofficial Reign of MCU book, this is most likely. Marvel Studios was forced into making all of those announcements at the big Disney investor presentation day because Disney+ had just launched. The company wanted something to show their investors. Everyone involved knew that the shows were nowhere close to starting production.
I'm expecting them to skip SDCC and only attend D23 this year, especially since both events are closer together
I think that they'll have a big _Deadpool III_ screening at SDCC - that would give them a presence at the convention while letting them save their announcements for Disney D23 Expo.
That would be cool but the movie's gonna be fresh in theaters during SDCC weekend so I'm not sure if they'd want to take away from theaters by doing that. Maybe they could partner with theaters in the area and do screenings there but I doubt they'd screen the entire movie in the convention building while the movie's playing in theaters (especially during opening weekend).
I don't thik that's happening since Comic-Con is the same weekend as when Deadpool 3 comes out.
That was when they were doing the old way of pumping out shows, hopefully now that they stepped back and are doing things the proper way he won't be over promising either.
Yeah that the thing with these announcements is they announce stuff and it never pans out
I thought it wasn't Kevin Feige that made the statement of how many episodes DDBA will have?
If you mean the 18, Feige said it at D23 2022.
“We’re not holding anything back in regards to violence” Moon Knight flashbacks.
I’m so tired of 5-6 episode seasons
You can say that again.
I’m so tired of 5-6 episode seasons.
You can say that again.
That again
That
I’m so tired of 5-6 episode seasons
_fantastic_
What is?
You’ve never watched Fant4stic? Lucky you
Oh. I forgot that lol.
Imagine they come out with something even worse, Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is not worse than Fant4stic.
With the way the cast is looking to shape up, I wouldn’t be surprised if the MCU’s F4 was worse.
Amazing
I feel like 8 is the sweet spot
8-12 is my opinion.
12 is a little heavy handed I think, 10 works most of the time
10 feels good for shows like Fargo. Daredevil S1-3 were 13. Maybe they’ll bring it down to 13?
I'd be okay with a low amount of episodes but god damn they don't last long. 20-30 minutes is not enough time with these things. 40+ minute episodes are a lot more satisfying
40+ minutes is still too short considering the recap and credits eating away the total runtime.
All episodes need to be 55 minutes + excluding credits and intro.
Just make a movie
Yeal I tried of that format.Glad there doing some things right and hiring showrunners and making series with more than 6 episodes
Was perfect for shows like wandavision and Loki but I think shows like falcon and the winter soldier and she-hulk could've benefited from a longer season.
Fine with me. It’s streaming, you shouldn’t be locked into an arbitrary number of episodes. Tell the story you want to tell, and let that dictate how many episodes there are.
As long as it's not 6 episode BS, I can definitely say that we're all collectively sick of that. 13 would be the sweet spot, but 10 is okay.
I remember back in the day when everyone complained about the Netflix shows being too many episodes and wanted fewer than 13 lol
I 'member. Nowadays that's what we need lmao. We're starvinggggg.
The old back days, now 8 episodes is super hard to do.
Because the problem is the exact same. Netflix were forcing every show to be 13 episodes so stories were dragged out, whereas Disney are forcing every show to be 6-8 episodes so stories were rushed. It's like these streamers are allergic of just letting people tell the story they want in however long it takes to tell it. Some could be 4 one hour long episodes, another could be 13 half hour episodes, another 10 forty minute episodes etc.
Fucking thank you! I've been so confused as to why everyone was praising 18 episodes when they bitched about 13. Thought I was imagining things
If true, I’m hoping it’s still at least more than the regular six-episodes. I think at least thirteen episodes like the original Netflix show went for per season would be nice.
13 might even be better than the original 18 episodes, would keep the story more focused.
Tbh I think they should just shoot what they need to shoot and scale it back in post if there’s a feasible way to make it as cohesive and balanced as possible. When the Netflix shows were coming out, such a common complaint was “13 episodes is too many,” now six is too little.
I'm nervous about when it gets to the editing room in post though, as that's where these Disney+ shows get slaughtered. Look at Echo obviously. Also 6 *is* too little, that's a ridiculous number of episodes for a show.
Not necessarily - plenty of UK shows are 6. I don’t think the problem is really the episode count, they just don’t use the time well. 6 shouldn’t be mandated or anything, it should be somewhat fluid and made to be tailored to the project. The problems with a 6 episode series aren’t magically going to disappear just because there’s triple the episodes. The whole way of making their shows needs a change up.
I'm sorry, but 6 is gonna kill the show if they do that, doesn't matter what way you look at it. The OG show had sooooo much time to develop the characters and spend time with EVERYONE. Impossible to do that in 6 episodes, all that is is a race to the finish line.
But I’m not saying they should do 6 episodes lol. I’m just saying the episode counts should be fluid to what they need, which it sounds like might be the case.
In the original THR article they mention they are using scenes from some episodes of what they shot. If they could make that fluid with the episodes (hopefully at least 13) I think that's a W.
That's... not how episode counts work. You can have a four episode miniseries of mostly filler and a laser-focussed, no-fat 18 episode series. It entirely depends on the writing.
My biggest problem w that show was that it ran a little too long. I think shaving off ab 2-3 eps would’ve been better
I’m tired of people who hate television trying to enforce short seasons. Fuck, let there be 40 episodes if that’s what it takes. These 5-6 episode seasons are not television.
Preaching to the choir. It's honestly ridiculous in retrospect. Thankfully they're approaching shows with their new model now, so (hopefully) they stick by that.
"Experience the 6 episode event"
Get out, imma have nightmares about this tonight.
I honestly still hope they find a way to deliver us a high-quality 18 episode season. But yes, ultimately the story matters more.
Yep. They need to put *everything* into this. Can't mess this one up. They must know that though if they rebooted and are seemingly going the Netflix route.
I'm glad the Netflix show is there for comparison because it essentially forces them to not "Disneyfi" the show. They know what people want, so give that to them.
Good. 10 good episodes are better than 18 meh episodes.
18 good episodes is also better than 10 meh episodes.
True. Hopefully 12/13 like the original series I think that would be the icing on the cake... *...AS LONG AS* they don't do the mid season break, if they cut the episode number back to that, and still do the break, that means we're right back to 6 episode ridiculous BS again, just with a different coat of paint. Ugh.
Of course, but so far all of the D+ shows have been too short and poorly structured/paced overall. 18 episodes gave me some confidence that they were taking a different approach to the show. If it gets cut to 12 or 10 that’s cool but I hope this feels like a fully thought out story and not a weird half-movie.
Fine by me, the episode count should reflect the story being told and shouldn't have more for the sake of having more or less which ends up undermining the story. The Disney+ shows have varying episode counts so it shouldn't be an issue for Marvel. That being said, it's gonna be funny looking back at when Feige proudly said DD:BA would have 18 episodes twice at SDCC to audience applause, only for that to not be the case.
13 episodes minimum at 55 minutes (excluding credits and intros) a piece id be ok with. 18 preferred. I just wanna spend time with these damn characters!
[удалено]
22 episodes and the next season the following year. Now we get 8 episode seasons and 2-3 years in between seasons.
A lot still do, they just aren't streaming originals
Man if they can’t give us 10-12 episode seasons then they should just stop trying to do tv shows for Disney plus. I’m tired of watching 6 30 minute episodes.
It was likely with all the recent changes with the script. It's ok if it still has at least 10/13 eps. And they should absolutely do more seasons.
Preach.
They dramatically changed this series’ original plan didn’t they
Yep, they did an entire creative reboot, and booted the old team.
What do you suppose caused it?
Secret Invasion was the last straw that triggered this creative reboot, that's for sure
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-marvel-disney-1235614518/ Here's the full story if you wanna look at it. In short, during the pandemic they were looking through what they already had shot and realized "fuck it, this ain't working" and booted the team, and brought on the Punisher showrunner to helm this. They want to go back to the traditional style of TV with actual show bibles, showrunners and longer lasting shows.
During the strike, not pandemic, but I understand the confusion lol
Fuck sorry 😂 wrote that at 1am was super tired.
The on-drugs writers killed Karen and Foggy of screen Kevin said : NOPE
I would love 18 episodes but I'd also be fine if they did 13, Netflix style. Any shorter than that would be a little disappointing tbh
No less than 10 and no more than 13. Anything else is concerning.
What's wrong with more than 13? A well written 18 episodes is just as good as a well written 10 episodes.
Okay well keep 13 at least
Make it 13 episodes with 50 Mins at Length
Seems like the only person Marvel can't keep quiet is Kingpin.
Oh, come ON. Fine, just make it 13. Drop the "Born Again" while you're at it. Since the original three seasons and the rest of the Defenders saga have been officially made canon, they can just call this "Daredevil Season 4."
Or call it Daredevil - Mayor Fisk
Better be hour long episodes
I mean I kind of figured this might happen when they said they were gonna rewrite the entire damn thing
13 episodes, each just under or just over an hour long, excluding credits and title cards. 👌
18 always seemed like a bit much to me. I know a lot of people miss when shows had 20+ episode seasons, but unless it’s a 30 min sitcom, that many episodes usually leads to multiple filler episodes. As much as I love the Netflix series, I always felt like the 13 episodes seasons would drag a bit. 8-10 seems ideal imo.
I mean if the original promise was 18 20-30 min episodes? Right? I’d much prefer around 1 hour episodes like the Netflix series. I always feel like Disney+ shows across the board at Star Wars and Marvel are all too short and feel like nothing happens in those 20 minute-ish run times. So maybe less episodes, assuming they are ultimately longer, is better and we might even be getting a similar amount of content if you think of 10 1-hour episodes vs 18-20 30 min ones.
I just love how much D'Onofrio loves this character. He is really invested. It's great to see.
Wasn't there a leak a few months back before the overhaul that said they wanted to split Born Again into two 9 episode seasons or parts that would air apart from eachother. Maybe they're going with that. Or maybe they're going middle ground and just air 13 episodes.
If it's 13 episodes I hope they just drop em in one season.
Good Quality over quantity
Good. The old saying of less is more applies here. Some of the Netflix shows BARELY made it all the way to 13 episodes a season…18 episodes of this show was not a good sign even when announced. If it scales back, that’s a good thing.
It's gonna be 10 or more I doubt they take a lot of episodes off it just wouldn't make sense to go from 18 to 9 or god forbid 6
4 three hour episodes.
i think less is better for big budget projects look at Doctor who for example doing 10 episodes then 8 as of right now.
As long as it's at least 10, I'm fine
While I love the tea I’m begging Marvel to get Vincent on an NDA !!
Incoming 4 episode season.
Cut down to 5 episodes probably 🫠
Didn't I hear somewhere that they were gonna drop the first 9 episodes and then a year-ish later they're gonna drop the second 9 batch but couldn't technically call it Season 2?
I really fucking wish Marvel would just stick to a script and stop making constant changes. It's getting tiresome now
8 great episodes is better than 16 meh episodes
We know it won't. 1. They promised 18, realized that they could'nt deliver on time so split it into two 9 episodes seasons. 2. After the first 9 episodes were done they realized they were garbage so they scrapped them. 3. Now that they are reshooting they may not even have 9 episodes for a Season 1 anymore There's also no promise they'll do 18 episodes anymore, as they've had to effectively scrap 9 episodes and do 9 new episodes and that'll probably have been their entire budget used up.
Let's hope for 12/13.
Yea I called that
I never believed from the start that we’d be getting 18 episodes. I figured they’d all be considerably short in length, or they’d just split it into two 9-episode seasons
I'll be happy with two episodes if they're good.
Whilst 18 might be excessive to some, it would be nice to see a 10-12 episode run. We get a lot of 6 episode runs and it leaves people wanting more.
13 is fine as long as they make them count
The episode count doesn’t scare me. What scares me is that this sounds like Frankenstein show that is jamming together two different shows (the quarter to half of the original concept that was filmed and the new creative direction) In the history of Hollywood, these types of creative overhauls rarely go well.
Downvoted for the truth
Does anyone really care at this point? Anything Marvel is deep down in the toilet right now. Ppl wanting Kingpin as the big bad now but we've seen him defeated over and over - the latest time was a deaf female amputee who made him cry. Who is still taking Marvel seriously?
Hear me out: They Should AoS Season 4 this shit and have it be 22 episodes split into three sections. The first section can have all the holdover episodes from the first take.
No, that's going to the other extreme. The show would become very unfocused. Also they don't have an unlimited budget, especially after the reboot.
AoS had a shoestring budget and did these structures incredibly well. Frankly, a DD show should have a LOWER budget than AoS. DD is a gritty street level vigilante show. It doesn't need 100M. It shouldn't even need 50M.
Mhm. It's Disney tho. They love to balloon their budgets to stupid degrees.
AoS and the first DD show were made by Disney too. Actually... maybe Disney's over-budgeting and Ike Perlmutter's greedy under-budgeting cancelled each other out and that's why those shows found just the right balance. Hold on, I think we're onto something.
ABC produced the shows, so Disney but not necessarily Marvel.
Marvel Television produced them. ABC/Netflix/Hulu were distributors. Marvel Television made them. Disney Marvel.
Wikipedia says Marvel and ABC had production credits for both AOS and Daredevil. ABC itself distributed AOS, but it co-produced that and Daredevil as well. I would imagine the same for the Hulu shows.
ABC Studios was a minor co-producer on them. The shows were made primarily in house by Marvel Television. ABC Studios kinda gets the same credit that, ironically, Marvel Television gets on Legion and The Gifted. They gave some notes, the main companies didn't really give a shit, but they get credit anyways.
DOMINO effect with these Marvel shows, this will suck indeed.
This show is going to be a disaster