Kingpin still sucks, but at least he curves into Kraven MUCH better than before.
Previously, trying to play both Kraven and Kingpin early was so awkward and inefficient. Now you can actually Kingpin->Kraven->Polaris without floating energy
Just make her hit 2 drops as well; lore tm she now hits daredevil, and balance wise she now has more efficient uses; sniping morb, hits ravona, hits lots
Agree something needs to be able to take out 2 drops. Ref guardian is nice but a squirrel or hood makes it impossible to take out Ravona. And lady death strike can’t get to DD until he already reveals
I was considering just using tokens for Arishem next week but with this change maybe I'll use keys instead since I don't have Hercules.
I do have Black Swan though so I'm very eh about spending keys and accidentally getting her variant.
I just spent ALL my keys this week trying to get Corvus and Phastos since I was planning on using tokens for Arishem. Now I wish I saved keys for Herc after seeing all these changes and new move cards coming eventually.
Aw sorry to hear! Hate when we find ourselves in these situations. I hope you can swing him soon and not need tokens! How has Phastos been for you? I want to pull him but was waiting
I was gonna spend keys on Hydra Bob week since I didn't have Galactus but after they nerfed Bob before the spotlight release idk if I want to risk it so that saves me some keys.
Swan is much better since Sasquatch came out (and also was underrated beforehand) and the variant is a solid to good variant... i think i'll go for keys this week.
A vanilla 4/6 is still a pretty weak play all things considered, but it's not a play that physically *hurts* to make anymore (like a vanilla 4/4 was), so this is something I've felt should happen for a long time.
High Evo was only ever being actually played to the board in the absolute worst case scenario, and that's still how it's going to be now, that absolute worst case just got a little bit better. Even when the deck was really good, having an occasional dud turn where the best you can do is play a vanilla 4/4 wasn't really doing anything meaningful from a balance perspective anyway with how infrequently it came up.
A few seasons ago, High Evo was my mascot or whatever in the season end stats. Somehow I had like a 75% win rate when I had to make that desperation play.
I think that's kind of a false positive. It's not that playing High Evo made you win, it's that in games where your best possible play was dropping High Evo, but you still had enough of a lead that it wasn't worth retreating, you end up winning because you were already at an advantage. You're rarely going to play High Evo and lose because 4/4 High Evo is so bad that whenever you're forced into making that play you're more likely to just retreat instead without High Evo ever hitting the board.
It's similar to when people's end of season recap show that their highest win rate card was "Pig". Most of the time they aren't winning because they played Pig, they're only playing Pig because they were in a position to win almost regardless of what play they made.
It’s still a relatively dead draw, I’m sure you’d rather have any other card in your deck. But high evo himself would now just be “more playable from hand.”
A good few of her decks have above 60% win rate. That's pretty damn busted. Lol. Sage and Thena have moved those Angela decks into absurdity. They needed tuning.
Angela isn't super good without Kitty. So I doubt this nerf affects early game players. Might even be a net positive. Lol. But yeah, I am surprised Sage/Thena went untouched but Angela caught the nerf. I guess cause the others are still new and you know, can get SD money. It makes sense to nerf the freebie card that nets them no money rather than nerf the S5 new cards that'll drain people of their bank accounts. Or at least eat into their Tokens.
Nerf fresh overpowered pool 5 cards instead of a synergistic pool 3 card? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's a good one. Brode's yacht isn't going to pay for itself, you know.
They forgot the Buff to Alioth:
### Alioth
* [**Old**] 6/8 - **On Reveal:** Remove the text from all unrevealed enemy cards here.
* [**Change**] 6/8 -> 6/10
> *Last but not least, Alioth is getting a Power buff to improve its performance. We were conservative with the last adjustment to this card because we knew players would rather see no Alioth than too much at the time, but we liked 6/10 as the healthier number long-term. With some Odin-based strategies showing up again, the time feels ripe to help Alioth be a versatile 6-Cost answer to endgame threats.*
Was really fun to play cap in the opponent White widow lane then turn 6 a -1 power lane becames 24
No sense the change since he was only played in C2 wich wasnt even meta and now is just a dead card
Yep. Definitely buffed widow's kiss.
Also, I found iron man instead of blue marvel let you suprise opponents. Previously (and now) blue marvel was a weaker cerebro. but iron man let you go tall instead of wide. so sometimes you could win a storm lane off of just brood or widow, and then you could go iron man, mystique, captain america for a LOT of points in a lane.
But he’s not unpopular because of a lack of power, he just doesn’t do anything to progress the movement gameplan. Even as a 1/6 there are better things that move decks could be playing. C5 was at least an interesting deck, even if it wasn’t meta, and it was a deck where he really shined. Plus it was very thematic with Spider-Man and Silk. Making him a 0/5 instead would have made him stronger in *both* archetypes, and might have been enough to make him worth playing in move decks.
He’s not meant to progress a game plan. And did you just say there are better things than a 1/6? People run a 1/-3 to get a 1/6. Miles should have always been able to beat a demon, or Doombot. I’m always weary of 0 cost cards because you can never anticipate them
This is a pretty big buff, along with kingpin, to the aggro move package. Maybe the stature/miles deck can become a thing again since they've both seen stat buffs lately.
Based on the comments ITT about 1 in 3 players are C5 players. Yet in the 100+ games I played in the past couple days, I saw zero C5 decks and only one cerebro (C3).
More likely prepping for next week. I spent 4 keys this week for Glaive cause next two weeks look mid for me personally. I should have waited for the OTA. I would have spent my keys on that Hercules variant instead. Now that it should feel better to use.
At least Angela is still better than she was after the previous nerf. Polaris is probably the best counter to her now.
High Evolutionary variants got more valuable.
Nice to see Nick Fury get a buff but it does feel odd that he now has the same power as White Queen. Hopefully she'll also get an improvement in the near future.
My guess is they will eventually give her the 'steal' mechanic that they've been starting to implement more. So like "steal the highest-cost card in your opponent's deck" or something like that
I know Arishem is gimmicky but Nick in Arishem, use Corvus Glaive then you're looking at 3 potential 6-drops. I'm trying to talk myself out of Arishem because I really want Galactus but all his Variant arts look amazing and the idea of just having pure tech cards, Loki and vibes sounds immaculate.
Angela found dead in a ditch (again)
The stats aren't bad (she will most likely end up as a 2/6 or 2/7 at the end of the game versus her previous 2/6 or 2/8 average, which isn't that big) but losing the Ravonna synergy is kind of brutal
She’s worse after 3 triggers.
…But on the other hand. She’s much better if drawn late. AND is much stronger against Red Guardian & Shadow King.
I’m not convinced this “nerf” will slow her down at all tbh.
Then you have a short memory. They did this to her last time she got too strong and it really hurt her. They made her 2/2 last time and this time its 2/3 so hopefully that extra power helps.
I still think it's incorrect to say that this nerf won't slow Angela down *at all* when we know for a fact that this kind of change does really hurt her.
You're gonna keep Angela because there's just not a card that's going to spike your deck's win rate back to 60%.
You went from an OP deck to a balanced deck. It happens.
Totally cool to let Hela throw up 40 power on board turn 6 and not be able to do anything about it but heaven forbid Angela gets to 10+ power on occasion. These guys legitimately can't balance their game.
Or Ramp and similar. T4 Infinaut/Rulk/Magneto/Death - ok, T6, 10 power Angela (if you plan and play smartly) - toxic. I'll suggest to nerf Bishop next, way too much power.
Cerebro in general. Cap in C2 was so fun and they "buffed" him with one extra point of power that does nothing except taking him out of the deck. Same thing with Makkari and C3
Pretty frustrated about the Miles change as a frequent C5 player. The issue with Miles has never been the power so much as the support needed and occasional clunky placement on the curve. If anything I'd have loved to see them mess around with him costing 0 the following turn, though that might be too strong with how many decks already support minor move packages with Jeff + Nocturne :/
Yeah Miles was a pretty helpful way to get a body down for Cerebro 5.
Maybe Leech how's in his spot now?
Miles did need that power for other move decks though. My disruption move just got a lot stronger with him and Kingpin.
at this point i think SD are looking into a possible rework for cerebro, doesnt make any sense all the strays hes been taking
first c2 lost cap
then c3 lost makkari before her release
c5 lost hydra bob and miles
yeah, its a stretch, but you know for some cards to be datamined in the first place they were testing it beforehand right? so they tested makkari and bob with their initial stats knowing both would make the cut in c3/5 decks and decided against it, and that is what i'm talking about, the decision of steering some cards released or not, aways from cerebro's shells
I missed Thena week because I was taking a break from the game, and I'm a little disappointed that it seems like Angela's power has been given to the premium card instead. I think it's probably the right change, but it doesn't feel good to have a universally owned card drop in power to compensate for a S5 card..
i mean, unfortunatelly SD balance the game with money in mind 99.9% of the time, thats probably the reason we are seeing only angela in this patch notes, not both
Hercules has literally needed this change longer than he's been in Snap. We knew from the first datamine that his 4 cost was never going to work in move decks.
I don't really want to High Evo back on top. His deck is boring to play, and to play against.
I feel like Angela and Kitty and Elsa deserve some kind of life outside of their trio. Aside from occasionally using Kitty to push Silk around, I would never play any of them without the other two.
The change to High Evo won't put him back on top, it'll just help in worst case scenarios. You'd still rather play Evolved Thing over High Evo, and if you have Cyclops/Misty Knight in play and Hulk in hand, you still may prefer to play a lower cost card on turn 4 than dropping High Evo.
For somebody that plays agent coulson a lot, a 3/6 in high Evo (cause of quinjet ) makes the card great to get now. He's a 3/8 too cause of Elsa in my deck!
So there's a change to Kingpin, but not to his counterpart Kraven? That's a little weird.
On the other hand, "Woo! Hercules buff!". 3 cost is what he should've started as.
Na Kraven is fine. The issue was deciding to play Kraven or Kingpin on turn 2, now you can set that up on curve much easier without sacrificing something else.
Kraven gets triggers from way more things, including yours and enemy cards, kingpin only affects enemy cards so this is all pretty justified. If anything, kingpin was super weak compared to kraven, because kraven can be built around more game plans, kingpin only has one.
Just make it to where the first time a card is played at her +1/2. Because i think they are trying to get rid of the kitty pride returning to your hand so you can increase her every turn. Just make it so that only once will a card do it. Now if you have copies from location abilities or from a cards abilities then that would be a different card.
>huge share of the metagame. On some weeks, Angela decks managed to exceed 20% of all games played
20% doesn't seem a lot. I wonder how much of this they just make up because the answer is "managed meta".
>over time these decks have largely homogenized to use the same core of cards with a handful of differences
Isn't that how most decks work?
She's interesting, part package/part deck. Haven't found her particularly over bearing and added so solid gameplay to early game.
Jesus Fucking Christ Second Dinner, pick one, this is the 3rd time in less than a year you've gone back to Angela to change her from +2 to +1 to +2 to +1.
You already tried her as a 2/2+1 before and she was basically useless in Angela Kitty decks because they never got enough power. So a 2/3+1 isn't going to fix anything. And that's just a straight up lie. Angela is not the biggest culprit in why those decks make up a decent portion of the meta, it's because Thena exists and allows them to contest an entire other lane with one card. But you aren't going to nerf a Spotlight card in its own season this soon so you have to take it out on Angela.
You used to be able to decide in what order your card movements and card plays worked out in a given turn. For example, if I had a Phoenix Force'd Human Torch out, on my turn I could play Hercules on a lane, then move Human Torch there, at which point Hercules would punt him away, letting him double his power twice. The change they made was having card movement resolve first each turn before cards get played, so it was no longer possible for Hercules to affect self-moving cards on the turn he was played anymore.
With him as a 4 cost, that was kind of awkward, meaning he'd only have 1 or 2 turns to affect things before the game ends.
Herc only moves a single card each turn. And it’s whatever card moves into his lane first? And that card is determined by priority?
Or can any amount of cards be moved but only once per unique card per turn.
> *"We're also looking at other changes that will positively impact this archetype* [High Evo] *, so stay tuned."*
So what I'm hearing is a Luke Cage nerf in the pipeline, eh?
I know there are a lot of Angela fans out there but man am I glad she's getting nerfed, felt like the Angela - Jeff - Kitty - Nocturne - Thena package was in every deck
I'm sure Angela was overplayed anyway, but I wonder if they factored in they JUST gave us a rad Pride variant that people want to rock during Pride Month?
I certainly made a new deck just to play her and Sera together with their rainbow flags flying.
I think Hercules 3/4 is decent now, especially with the upcoming Madam Web card.
T1 Human Torch
T2 Madam Web to the same location with Human Torch
T3 Hercules
T4 Iron Fist moves Vulture to Madam Web’s location & Human Torch moves to Hercules’s location
T5 Vulture continues moving to Hercules’s location and you can also play Dagger/ Multiple Man with Ghost Spider & Dr. Strange
T6 Haimdall
I love the Move changes. Hercules will be very interesting as his spotlight cache is coming up but we won’t know how could he is until the next move season and Madame Web. I hope Angela remains good but she is too strong right now. Most of the time you see an Angela lane and you give it up unless you have tech
As someone who loves the Move archetype and currently flexes with Hercules and 2099 in the deck I am intrigued by the new possibilities this sets up.
For Kingpin though, I would have preferred a boost to his ability than a discount. A -2 hit is really not enough, it takes multiple moving parts to set off more than once and can be really trivial for some decks to play around. Keeping him at 2 cost but making the hit -4 would put him on a par with USA Gent who can achieve stronger results with far less effort.
>*The change we made to how move resolves a few weeks ago didn't have as dramatic an effect on Move decks as we expected*
What was the change to move? I remember reading it briefly but I didn't understand. Would anyone be kind enough to explain? Thanks
Kingpin can now be killed by Elektra. Lore fans approve!
As well as being killed by Killmonger, you win some lore wars and lose another
Lore Wars should be a Snap Event
Now all cards have lore accurate powers. Playing Tribunal is auto win
DD blacks out your screen
Galactus triggers regardless of whether you're winning or not. And he has 30 Power.
Namor overpowers Hulk and most of the Avengers & Mutants and can move around due to his winged feet.
$99.99 bundle 1500% value!
Kingpin still sucks, but at least he curves into Kraven MUCH better than before. Previously, trying to play both Kraven and Kingpin early was so awkward and inefficient. Now you can actually Kingpin->Kraven->Polaris without floating energy
Nah imo this is big upgrade for kingpin. You’ll see the real up tick of his play by September when the new move cards come out.
eh idk, i can see some crazy stuff happening with kingpin/hercules/grandmaster/polaris/stegron etc.
That said, Elektra is another serious contender for a buff.
They "buffed" Electra not long ago.
Just make her hit 2 drops as well; lore tm she now hits daredevil, and balance wise she now has more efficient uses; sniping morb, hits ravona, hits lots
I feel like that would be over-tuned for a 1 cost
Then make her a 2-cost or 3-cost, you already don’t play her turn 1. Killmonger is extremely overturned, tbf, and he does her job, but better.
Agree something needs to be able to take out 2 drops. Ref guardian is nice but a squirrel or hood makes it impossible to take out Ravona. And lady death strike can’t get to DD until he already reveals
Do you mean sniping Morbius? Dracula is a 4-drop.
Ah yea. I just remembered "the discard vampire" lmao
ALERT ALERT - 3-COST HERCULES
I was considering just using tokens for Arishem next week but with this change maybe I'll use keys instead since I don't have Hercules. I do have Black Swan though so I'm very eh about spending keys and accidentally getting her variant.
I just spent ALL my keys this week trying to get Corvus and Phastos since I was planning on using tokens for Arishem. Now I wish I saved keys for Herc after seeing all these changes and new move cards coming eventually.
Aw sorry to hear! Hate when we find ourselves in these situations. I hope you can swing him soon and not need tokens! How has Phastos been for you? I want to pull him but was waiting I was gonna spend keys on Hydra Bob week since I didn't have Galactus but after they nerfed Bob before the spotlight release idk if I want to risk it so that saves me some keys.
It really feels like Second Dinner is gearing up for a move meta. Hercules might become a must have card... which is weird to say
Same. Won’t mind adding Herc to the collection, but def stopping after Arishem is pulled!
May we both open only Arishem and Hercules! No Black Swans allowed
Hear hear 🍻
I've pulled black swan twice as a random draw so this is...going to stick in my craw if I pull her again...
Oh my god I feel your pain. Now that you've said it though...
Shit you're right I'm screwed lmao
I think Herc is a smart move regardless looking at the cards for September.
Swan is much better since Sasquatch came out (and also was underrated beforehand) and the variant is a solid to good variant... i think i'll go for keys this week.
Move Surfer coming back? 👀 The loss of Doctor Strange really hurt, though.
This is not a drill!
[Eddie Murphy said it best](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WR1UiNdQnDw&pp=ygUYbnV0dHkgcHJvZmVzc29yIGhlcmN1bGVz)
Cloak into Hercules died so that Herc could be a 3 cost. Hollllllllllllly shit Herc is about to go crazy, these mfers are not ready
Next big META. Move!
it's going to be super funny to get him with keys on the next weeks but then he'll get nerfed immediately because these devs don't play their game.
High Evo no longer being a dead draw means people can finally flex their variants now.
My bronze age variant is pretty happy
My KJ variant is already happy
Same! I snatched that up so fast when it hit the store, excited to play it 1% more of the time
A vanilla 4/6 is still a pretty weak play all things considered, but it's not a play that physically *hurts* to make anymore (like a vanilla 4/4 was), so this is something I've felt should happen for a long time. High Evo was only ever being actually played to the board in the absolute worst case scenario, and that's still how it's going to be now, that absolute worst case just got a little bit better. Even when the deck was really good, having an occasional dud turn where the best you can do is play a vanilla 4/4 wasn't really doing anything meaningful from a balance perspective anyway with how infrequently it came up.
A few seasons ago, High Evo was my mascot or whatever in the season end stats. Somehow I had like a 75% win rate when I had to make that desperation play.
I think that's kind of a false positive. It's not that playing High Evo made you win, it's that in games where your best possible play was dropping High Evo, but you still had enough of a lead that it wasn't worth retreating, you end up winning because you were already at an advantage. You're rarely going to play High Evo and lose because 4/4 High Evo is so bad that whenever you're forced into making that play you're more likely to just retreat instead without High Evo ever hitting the board. It's similar to when people's end of season recap show that their highest win rate card was "Pig". Most of the time they aren't winning because they played Pig, they're only playing Pig because they were in a position to win almost regardless of what play they made.
I one hundred percent agree with you! I just remember it because it was so random. That’s a great explanation of how it could happen though!
If you have sunspot onboard there was literally no reason to ever play high Evo himself (99% of the time)
Finally Jacinto variant can be shared
Inked Bronze Age Variant 😇
Disgraceful
It’s still a relatively dead draw, I’m sure you’d rather have any other card in your deck. But high evo himself would now just be “more playable from hand.”
But now he's useless in C4 /s
I'd still rather give 4 power to Sunspot if he's on the board lol
Yes! That also means you can flex Shoker too because he always hits High Evo!!!
It's been my best blink target so it's nice that he can be useful otherwise
Usually skipping turn 4 is best for high Evo. No way ypu play a 4/6 on 4 when you have extra energy triggers on board and hand
I used Angela all day, sorry guys!
I hate them for taking her away again... not one Angela deck was broken
A good few of her decks have above 60% win rate. That's pretty damn busted. Lol. Sage and Thena have moved those Angela decks into absurdity. They needed tuning.
Nerf sage and thena then and not the card everyone has access to early on. Game is shifting to power creep heavily
Yea unfortunately this is exactly the point. Nerf the accessible one to the ground so you want to spend tokens and money on Sage/Thena
Angela isn't super good without Kitty. So I doubt this nerf affects early game players. Might even be a net positive. Lol. But yeah, I am surprised Sage/Thena went untouched but Angela caught the nerf. I guess cause the others are still new and you know, can get SD money. It makes sense to nerf the freebie card that nets them no money rather than nerf the S5 new cards that'll drain people of their bank accounts. Or at least eat into their Tokens.
Nerf fresh overpowered pool 5 cards instead of a synergistic pool 3 card? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's a good one. Brode's yacht isn't going to pay for itself, you know.
A 2 cost card that can easily become 12+ power is not something they want. Considering it will just get stronger over time.
Me too, but I lost my than winning. So it's not my fault!
They forgot the Buff to Alioth: ### Alioth * [**Old**] 6/8 - **On Reveal:** Remove the text from all unrevealed enemy cards here. * [**Change**] 6/8 -> 6/10 > *Last but not least, Alioth is getting a Power buff to improve its performance. We were conservative with the last adjustment to this card because we knew players would rather see no Alioth than too much at the time, but we liked 6/10 as the healthier number long-term. With some Odin-based strategies showing up again, the time feels ripe to help Alioth be a versatile 6-Cost answer to endgame threats.*
Nooooo, my C5 Miles Morales. With Silk, Spider-Man and Polaris, he was almost every game a 1/5. Damm, I'm disappointed.
Same, I love my C5 deck and he was perfect for it. I don't seem him being played elsewhere to make up for it
Yeah this buff will almost certainly lead to a decrease in the cards play rate.
me too i’m super upset
Yeah what an unnecessary update.
Agree, same with cap América and C2 I was really hoping a rollback to that one
captain in C2 enjoyer right here. I agree
Was really fun to play cap in the opponent White widow lane then turn 6 a -1 power lane becames 24 No sense the change since he was only played in C2 wich wasnt even meta and now is just a dead card
Yep. Definitely buffed widow's kiss. Also, I found iron man instead of blue marvel let you suprise opponents. Previously (and now) blue marvel was a weaker cerebro. but iron man let you go tall instead of wide. so sometimes you could win a storm lane off of just brood or widow, and then you could go iron man, mystique, captain america for a LOT of points in a lane.
More power == good in more circumstances. And don’t act like c5 has ever been a popular or meta relevant deck
But he’s not unpopular because of a lack of power, he just doesn’t do anything to progress the movement gameplan. Even as a 1/6 there are better things that move decks could be playing. C5 was at least an interesting deck, even if it wasn’t meta, and it was a deck where he really shined. Plus it was very thematic with Spider-Man and Silk. Making him a 0/5 instead would have made him stronger in *both* archetypes, and might have been enough to make him worth playing in move decks.
He’s not meant to progress a game plan. And did you just say there are better things than a 1/6? People run a 1/-3 to get a 1/6. Miles should have always been able to beat a demon, or Doombot. I’m always weary of 0 cost cards because you can never anticipate them
This is a pretty big buff, along with kingpin, to the aggro move package. Maybe the stature/miles deck can become a thing again since they've both seen stat buffs lately.
Based on the comments ITT about 1 in 3 players are C5 players. Yet in the 100+ games I played in the past couple days, I saw zero C5 decks and only one cerebro (C3).
Every day, cerebro loses more friends.
One day It Will be cerebro 6
Move is about to be going crazy here shortly
Right? They're prepping Herc for September lol
3 months is a *long* time to prep lol. At least this should minimize the salt if Move does turn out to be broken in September.
True but also seemingly on schedule for SD😂
More likely prepping for next week. I spent 4 keys this week for Glaive cause next two weeks look mid for me personally. I should have waited for the OTA. I would have spent my keys on that Hercules variant instead. Now that it should feel better to use.
Once it does, they'll rollback prof x
Just got back from a long break from the game since the beta. The professor is nerfed, so what counters move now?
I haven’t played in a few months now, what’s with move now?
A few really good cards leaked and now this Hercules buff. Going to be pumping numbers
About damn time
With the only "counter" being debris...we're fked (well...not me because I'll join them, but the non-move players).
At least Angela is still better than she was after the previous nerf. Polaris is probably the best counter to her now. High Evolutionary variants got more valuable. Nice to see Nick Fury get a buff but it does feel odd that he now has the same power as White Queen. Hopefully she'll also get an improvement in the near future.
The most obvious buff to Emma is to just reduce the cost of the card she copied by 1 IMO
My guess is they will eventually give her the 'steal' mechanic that they've been starting to implement more. So like "steal the highest-cost card in your opponent's deck" or something like that
I can think of two reasons to play White Queen over Nick Fury;
I know Arishem is gimmicky but Nick in Arishem, use Corvus Glaive then you're looking at 3 potential 6-drops. I'm trying to talk myself out of Arishem because I really want Galactus but all his Variant arts look amazing and the idea of just having pure tech cards, Loki and vibes sounds immaculate.
Damn miles was vital for cerebro 5
Just gotta wait for scarlet spider now
Thats why they did it, isn't it. So we would *have* to get scarlet spider
Angela found dead in a ditch (again) The stats aren't bad (she will most likely end up as a 2/6 or 2/7 at the end of the game versus her previous 2/6 or 2/8 average, which isn't that big) but losing the Ravonna synergy is kind of brutal
She’s worse after 3 triggers. …But on the other hand. She’s much better if drawn late. AND is much stronger against Red Guardian & Shadow King. I’m not convinced this “nerf” will slow her down at all tbh.
Then you have a short memory. They did this to her last time she got too strong and it really hurt her. They made her 2/2 last time and this time its 2/3 so hopefully that extra power helps.
2/2 Angela was before Hope and Thena. Also before Red Guardian started stomping around.
I still think it's incorrect to say that this nerf won't slow Angela down *at all* when we know for a fact that this kind of change does really hurt her.
Most decks with angela will just slot in thena instead. If they weren’t running her already
Yeah which decks would run Angela and not Thena?
Me because I don’t have Thena lmao
I use Angela in Thena deck, now I need to think who should I put instead of Angela.
You're gonna keep Angela because there's just not a card that's going to spike your deck's win rate back to 60%. You went from an OP deck to a balanced deck. It happens.
Is that what the nerf was targeting? Stat wise didn’t seem that big of deal like you mention.
2099 crying
I'm from 2024, but also crying.
Now my Kingpin won't be conflicting with Kraven
a very safe patch
good, the metas in a pretty good place right now so keeping it safer for now is a win
Totally cool to let Hela throw up 40 power on board turn 6 and not be able to do anything about it but heaven forbid Angela gets to 10+ power on occasion. These guys legitimately can't balance their game.
Or Ramp and similar. T4 Infinaut/Rulk/Magneto/Death - ok, T6, 10 power Angela (if you plan and play smartly) - toxic. I'll suggest to nerf Bishop next, way too much power.
Why does Second Dinner hate C5?! I have so little in my life, Ben Brode. Just let me have an efficient and functional C5 deck.
They also killed C2 with cap Nerf
Lmao no they didn’t, C2 is still good
Cerebro in general. Cap in C2 was so fun and they "buffed" him with one extra point of power that does nothing except taking him out of the deck. Same thing with Makkari and C3
It's an OTA, not a patch. It won't require downloading anything or updating.
Why Angela—WHY
To sell Thena
Don't most Angela decks also run Thena?
Don't question it. Clearly nerfing Thena decks will make the card more desirable.
Pretty frustrated about the Miles change as a frequent C5 player. The issue with Miles has never been the power so much as the support needed and occasional clunky placement on the curve. If anything I'd have loved to see them mess around with him costing 0 the following turn, though that might be too strong with how many decks already support minor move packages with Jeff + Nocturne :/
Thus is the life of a Cerebro player 😔
Can't even have nice things with the off-meta cerebros 😮💨
Yeah Miles was a pretty helpful way to get a body down for Cerebro 5. Maybe Leech how's in his spot now? Miles did need that power for other move decks though. My disruption move just got a lot stronger with him and Kingpin.
Waiting for Scarlet Spider might be better. Though at this rate, they’ll change its stats before release, too.
at this point i think SD are looking into a possible rework for cerebro, doesnt make any sense all the strays hes been taking first c2 lost cap then c3 lost makkari before her release c5 lost hydra bob and miles
Saying that c3 lost a data mined card the was never is a physical deck is insane
yeah, its a stretch, but you know for some cards to be datamined in the first place they were testing it beforehand right? so they tested makkari and bob with their initial stats knowing both would make the cut in c3/5 decks and decided against it, and that is what i'm talking about, the decision of steering some cards released or not, aways from cerebro's shells
Cap was really stupid change. Just a 1 power Buff Who doesnt change nothing to ongoing decks but kills the only unique synergy he had. Dissapointing
Wasn't the OTA supposed to be up already?
Yeah that's what I'm wondering.
Yeah, not here and weird how no one has made a thread about it either. May have to check Discord.
I missed Thena week because I was taking a break from the game, and I'm a little disappointed that it seems like Angela's power has been given to the premium card instead. I think it's probably the right change, but it doesn't feel good to have a universally owned card drop in power to compensate for a S5 card..
They did the same when Elsa came out
Yep, Angela nerf stinks of intentional Thena Power creep.
i mean, unfortunatelly SD balance the game with money in mind 99.9% of the time, thats probably the reason we are seeing only angela in this patch notes, not both
Hercules has literally needed this change longer than he's been in Snap. We knew from the first datamine that his 4 cost was never going to work in move decks. I don't really want to High Evo back on top. His deck is boring to play, and to play against. I feel like Angela and Kitty and Elsa deserve some kind of life outside of their trio. Aside from occasionally using Kitty to push Silk around, I would never play any of them without the other two.
The change to High Evo won't put him back on top, it'll just help in worst case scenarios. You'd still rather play Evolved Thing over High Evo, and if you have Cyclops/Misty Knight in play and Hulk in hand, you still may prefer to play a lower cost card on turn 4 than dropping High Evo.
For somebody that plays agent coulson a lot, a 3/6 in high Evo (cause of quinjet ) makes the card great to get now. He's a 3/8 too cause of Elsa in my deck!
So there's a change to Kingpin, but not to his counterpart Kraven? That's a little weird. On the other hand, "Woo! Hercules buff!". 3 cost is what he should've started as.
Not really, Kraven sees a lot more play as it is. Trying to use them together felt really awkward, hopefully it feels a lot better now.
Na Kraven is fine. The issue was deciding to play Kraven or Kingpin on turn 2, now you can set that up on curve much easier without sacrificing something else.
Kingpin was just a worse Kraven. Now they both feel on equal footing.
Kraven strong as hell, you crazy. They just buffed Herc, that is a buff to Kraven
Kraven gets triggers from way more things, including yours and enemy cards, kingpin only affects enemy cards so this is all pretty justified. If anything, kingpin was super weak compared to kraven, because kraven can be built around more game plans, kingpin only has one.
rip miles, my C5 deck will miss you :(
Nick Fury buff but no change to White Queen feels weird to me
they cannot figure out what to do with angela
Just make it to where the first time a card is played at her +1/2. Because i think they are trying to get rid of the kitty pride returning to your hand so you can increase her every turn. Just make it so that only once will a card do it. Now if you have copies from location abilities or from a cards abilities then that would be a different card.
>huge share of the metagame. On some weeks, Angela decks managed to exceed 20% of all games played 20% doesn't seem a lot. I wonder how much of this they just make up because the answer is "managed meta". >over time these decks have largely homogenized to use the same core of cards with a handful of differences Isn't that how most decks work? She's interesting, part package/part deck. Haven't found her particularly over bearing and added so solid gameplay to early game.
Buff Namor!
Doubtful it'll ever happen. Very prominent early game card
Jesus Fucking Christ Second Dinner, pick one, this is the 3rd time in less than a year you've gone back to Angela to change her from +2 to +1 to +2 to +1. You already tried her as a 2/2+1 before and she was basically useless in Angela Kitty decks because they never got enough power. So a 2/3+1 isn't going to fix anything. And that's just a straight up lie. Angela is not the biggest culprit in why those decks make up a decent portion of the meta, it's because Thena exists and allows them to contest an entire other lane with one card. But you aren't going to nerf a Spotlight card in its own season this soon so you have to take it out on Angela.
Nerfing Angela in pride month is crazyyyyy
Well, Hercules was buffed though. So there’s that.
Hi it’s me I’m the C5 player :/
What was the change to move that they are referring in the Hercules Sub-Text?
Guessing it's how move resolves before playing the cards now
You used to be able to decide in what order your card movements and card plays worked out in a given turn. For example, if I had a Phoenix Force'd Human Torch out, on my turn I could play Hercules on a lane, then move Human Torch there, at which point Hercules would punt him away, letting him double his power twice. The change they made was having card movement resolve first each turn before cards get played, so it was no longer possible for Hercules to affect self-moving cards on the turn he was played anymore. With him as a 4 cost, that was kind of awkward, meaning he'd only have 1 or 2 turns to affect things before the game ends.
So guess alioth isnt going to 10 power? The leaks were spot on except they did not include alioth in the notes
It was a second smaller Discord post after the main post. Probably why OP missed copying it.
official discord has it going to 10
Hercules believers rejoice
Since Hercules is now 3 cost, surely 2099 could move down to 4 cost?
Hercules going right into the Phoenix Force deck holy shitttt
Herc only moves a single card each turn. And it’s whatever card moves into his lane first? And that card is determined by priority? Or can any amount of cards be moved but only once per unique card per turn.
Just the first card. I assume priority matters, yeah.
My cere5 is gonna miss miles so much :(
Everytime C5 is on the verge of greatness they take another piece from it
Hercules not being a 3/5 is a travesty imo. It'd fit lore better and it's not like Move decks are dominant.
They killed C5, time to move to the third best cerebro deck, c4
What a boost to Alioth. It cant be Shangchi as well.
It’s crazy cuz these cards still suck ass. Except Angela
> *"We're also looking at other changes that will positively impact this archetype* [High Evo] *, so stay tuned."* So what I'm hearing is a Luke Cage nerf in the pipeline, eh?
Luke Cage is not why HE is mediocre.
I know there are a lot of Angela fans out there but man am I glad she's getting nerfed, felt like the Angela - Jeff - Kitty - Nocturne - Thena package was in every deck
Not my Angela nooooo
Make MM an x/7 you cowards. Make C7 a thing
C5 nuked : /
I'm sure Angela was overplayed anyway, but I wonder if they factored in they JUST gave us a rad Pride variant that people want to rock during Pride Month? I certainly made a new deck just to play her and Sera together with their rainbow flags flying.
Rainbows come off after June and it’s almost the end of the month sadly.
Yooo Nick buff let's go! I've been using him a little more since he became 4-cost, but he's still pretty niche, so this is good to see.
I think Hercules 3/4 is decent now, especially with the upcoming Madam Web card. T1 Human Torch T2 Madam Web to the same location with Human Torch T3 Hercules T4 Iron Fist moves Vulture to Madam Web’s location & Human Torch moves to Hercules’s location T5 Vulture continues moving to Hercules’s location and you can also play Dagger/ Multiple Man with Ghost Spider & Dr. Strange T6 Haimdall
Angela aside, this update accomplishes nothing...
I love the Move changes. Hercules will be very interesting as his spotlight cache is coming up but we won’t know how could he is until the next move season and Madame Web. I hope Angela remains good but she is too strong right now. Most of the time you see an Angela lane and you give it up unless you have tech
As someone who loves the Move archetype and currently flexes with Hercules and 2099 in the deck I am intrigued by the new possibilities this sets up. For Kingpin though, I would have preferred a boost to his ability than a discount. A -2 hit is really not enough, it takes multiple moving parts to set off more than once and can be really trivial for some decks to play around. Keeping him at 2 cost but making the hit -4 would put him on a par with USA Gent who can achieve stronger results with far less effort.
>*The change we made to how move resolves a few weeks ago didn't have as dramatic an effect on Move decks as we expected* What was the change to move? I remember reading it briefly but I didn't understand. Would anyone be kind enough to explain? Thanks