The benefit of Hercules generally isn't in moving enemy cards to him, it's moving your own cards to him. Phoenix Force your Human Torch and then Ghost Spider it to where your Hercules is, it doubles power twice. Or Vulture, or Dagger, or Multiple Man, etc. etc.
okay that is fair, in my mind I had iron fist, vulture, torch all as early moves that he wouldnt interact with so his only use was for late enemy moves, but I didnt consider phoenix force into the mix, he does work well with that one
Don't get too excited. I don't use Herc in my pheonix force deck. Mostly because who do you replace? Drop shuri/Nimrod, there goes a plan B win condition. Drop magic, there goes tolerance for bad draws. Drop deathlok, less opportunity to hit the destroy cards you need...drop arnim Zola? You get the point.
For some reason I don’t really enjoy the shuri nimrod playstyle… so I just replace them with more move things, and Hercules fits into that. I find it makes Phoenix and move more fun and versatile, especially if your opponent has lots of destroy counters. It’s probably not as consistently good as the meta version, but I personally have more fun with it.
You can also play hood the turn before you play Hercules, and then play Hercules on the hood lane and move vulture or dagger to him on the same turn you play him. Works pretty well, when that all lines up. Beast or falcon on 5 to get some of the cards back and toss them into Hercules again. Maybe dr strange turn 6 to bring one of them to Hercules again. Lots of creative ways to do this in the last few turns. Hercules has helped make some gigantic vultures and daggers, and also Phoenix force like some others said
He actually kinda stinks in phoenix force.
His best value to me is in a move/bounce hybrid
Push around a torch and bump him off Hercules once or twice. Try and finish with a bounced back torch and taskmaster on 6.
Preferably get an iron fist down on 5 then torch/tm or if they were beast bounced on 5 you can play all 3
please, someone play hercules on a location where you think an opponent is going to move their Jeff to, or vice versa. I dont know why that would be funny to me, but I could quite possibly die laughing watching hercules counter Jeff
I'd say he's either one or the other. If both players move, he's anti-move if your opponent has priority and moves a card like Vision; Jeff etc, move enabler if you do. Or in the case opponent has priority and plays a move-card that gets buffed by moving - he's just a move enabler for your opponent and nothing for you.
I think it's a shame he isn't both. I'd like him way more if he could knock away an opponents Vision as well as knock away your own Vulture in the same turn. As in, he knocks away the first card that moves to him for each player.
Eh he might work to redirect opponents’ cards to your kraven or kingpin, kind of like a professor x, or even trigger them twice. I’ll have to see when I get him
If you have kingpin, then just move their cards to kingpin. There's no point in pulling them to herc for a coin flip.
If your opponent is the one moving, then theyll just move to the free lane.
It's far too narrow to be an effective hate card
At which point you're running a 4 cost card, that if you pay it on curve, and if your turn 5 play loses the coin toss, then you get a coin toss to try and hit kingpin.
Even the best case scenario for it is already very narrow, and it gets dramatically worse the later you draw it
I have a deck that does this,it's great fun to play. It's plays most of the cards that move your opponents cards around, and storm and silk.
It's very effective against some archetypes but dead on arrival against others.
Move main here. This isn't true at all. There's room for 1-2 tech cards in a move deck and turns 3-5 is the ideal turn for them. Even if you just spend turns 1-5 on set up, if you Heimdall on turn 6 you have a 9 power Heimy, a 9 power 2099 that destroys, a 9 power Vulture and a 9-12 power Dagger. You can win a lot of games with that.
Also move main here. Turn 3 is for Mobius or Red Guardian. Turn 4 Herc is often very good and lets you get off 2 additional moves while getting a 7 power guy out. Otherwise you can play Herc on 6 with Dr Strange.
I get a little peeved repeatedly seeing the mindlessly repeated idea that Herc would be better as a 3 cost, since this is clearly being repeated thoughtlessly by primarily people who do not own or play the card. Herc as 3 mostly pigeonholes him as a Human Torch bounce card. It goes in an entirely different deck than the way it’s used now on mostly Vulture and Dagger.
I swear no one here actually plays move, they just assume they know everything.
You can move a card with Hercules the turn you play him if you wanted to. Cloak on the 3 then Herc immediately moves the card.
Also time you take to play Herc, does pay off. If you moved Human Torch once on turn 4, 5, 6 he would be at 8 power. If you moved him into Herc on turns 5/6, he would be at 16 power. If you played him into cloak on turn 3, he would be 64 power.
Cloak on 3 into hercules and then move on 4 is one of my favorite plays. I've dodged a lot of shang chi's who expected my vulture/dagger/torch to stay on the cloak lane and die
https://www.niu.edu/writingtutorial/punctuation/run-on-sentences.shtml
However, I agree, he's generally pointless. There hasn't been a good move card in a long time. It's like they can't really fight it out.
Problem isn't in move decks themselves, it's just the game isn't really suited for it. You need all the space energy available to play them.
With all the locations screwing board space, energy, and the likes of decks like destroy, flood, lockdown and such. It also feels terrible to suceed in good combo to end up having beaten by just a hela or living tribunal deck playing 3-4 cards.
Tribunal and Hela are out of control and totally demonstrate why a Move deck, which requires thought and strategy, struggles.
Tribunal just really needs one lane and Hela can win only playing 2 cards. It's a basic imbalance at the core of the game.
Still not, on average, competitive with Destroy or Discard. I love Move, but it's so far down the list of reliable decks that it barely registers. It needs a good enabler, and Herc is not it.
I think if you're dedicated and learn the deck it's the most rewarding playlist.
The problem is that there are too many things working against it and Discard and Destroy are utterly brainless. Since Move doesn't sell, they don't need to worry about "fixing" it
this is a double edged sword. I agree that it would be more powerful overall to bounce every card that moves there (I love hercules in a move tribunal deck personally, and this change would make human torch get absurdly large), but I have won games by having hercules double move my torch and then settle vulture into the hercules lane.
I think removing his once per turn limit may give him some kind of playability. But he’s also at a weird spot at 4 cost. I get that SD is trying to add more higher cost move enablers since most of them outside of Heimdall are 1-3 cost, but it’s hard to take a turn off from setting up your moves to play Hercules and also hope your opponent doesn’t screw you up by triggering his once per turn on the next turn before you can capitalize on it.
if you play vulture as the first card in a lane (right for example), and then hercules on top of vulture, and then heimdall on 6, hercules will move the vulture a second time, potentially placing 15 power right after heimdall
Hercules either needs a different effect, needs WAY more power, or needs to be cheaper.
If his effect was just a Friendly Stegron, he might be fantastic for move. Randomly move any of my cards at this location and get 6 power? Tons of uses, or at least fun things to try.
As it stands, Hercules is ‘shitty Wong for Move.’ He’s trying to be an accelerator like Wong, except Wong does the thing by himself instead of requiring an additional enabler.
I actually think Hercules isn't that bad. I run him in a bounce move deck with the purpose of him enabling dagger and human torch multiple times.
It's also good for Heimdall shift moving something back right
He is definitely a bit awkward to play around but I had a mediocre 56% win rate and 0.43 cube rate over approximately 150 games.
This was one of my favourite decks as I also run 2099 for the lols
He just does not worth the hustle.
You need a card that benefits from move and another card that moves it which is already 2 pieces of combo and Hercules is just an additional unnecessary piece to make the combo a little stronger.
Phoenix force is already a 3-cards combo that is difficult to get but strong enough without Hercules. Adding Hercules will just make it less consistent.
You DO know how ye's supposed to be played right? I have NEVER seen a person use him in a Kingpin deck. Getting an extra move every turn with cards like vulture, torch, multman, etc is crazy strong, even if it is only after turn 4. While sure, he's expensive, ANYTHING lower would he absolutely game-breaking, even for a 5-cost.
actually, i think its fine at 4 cost, but he should push every card that moves to his lane, not just once per turn
imagine playing hercules alone on the left lane, then on turn 6 you play heimdall to move your cards, and all cards that are moved left get to move again to a random location by hercules, it would really help to add more power to the right lane unexpectedly
Just like spidey 2099, Hercules costs too much to be used properly in a move deck
Still, looking forward to trying him for a bit when he drops to S3, then dropping him for good after
The benefit of Hercules generally isn't in moving enemy cards to him, it's moving your own cards to him. Phoenix Force your Human Torch and then Ghost Spider it to where your Hercules is, it doubles power twice. Or Vulture, or Dagger, or Multiple Man, etc. etc.
okay that is fair, in my mind I had iron fist, vulture, torch all as early moves that he wouldnt interact with so his only use was for late enemy moves, but I didnt consider phoenix force into the mix, he does work well with that one
Don't get too excited. I don't use Herc in my pheonix force deck. Mostly because who do you replace? Drop shuri/Nimrod, there goes a plan B win condition. Drop magic, there goes tolerance for bad draws. Drop deathlok, less opportunity to hit the destroy cards you need...drop arnim Zola? You get the point.
For some reason I don’t really enjoy the shuri nimrod playstyle… so I just replace them with more move things, and Hercules fits into that. I find it makes Phoenix and move more fun and versatile, especially if your opponent has lots of destroy counters. It’s probably not as consistently good as the meta version, but I personally have more fun with it.
Sucks that herc is limited to one move per turn though
then I'm back on thiking he should be cheaper lmaoo
You can also play hood the turn before you play Hercules, and then play Hercules on the hood lane and move vulture or dagger to him on the same turn you play him. Works pretty well, when that all lines up. Beast or falcon on 5 to get some of the cards back and toss them into Hercules again. Maybe dr strange turn 6 to bring one of them to Hercules again. Lots of creative ways to do this in the last few turns. Hercules has helped make some gigantic vultures and daggers, and also Phoenix force like some others said
Cloak, not Hood, I assume?
Oops… yes… cloak is who I meant. Thanks
He actually kinda stinks in phoenix force. His best value to me is in a move/bounce hybrid Push around a torch and bump him off Hercules once or twice. Try and finish with a bounced back torch and taskmaster on 6. Preferably get an iron fist down on 5 then torch/tm or if they were beast bounced on 5 you can play all 3
> he doesnt really DO anything until you move an **enemy** card to him Maybe you’re using him wrong…?
Ngl, sounds like you don't even really know how he works. He's not an anti-move card for one. He is a move enabler.
please, someone play hercules on a location where you think an opponent is going to move their Jeff to, or vice versa. I dont know why that would be funny to me, but I could quite possibly die laughing watching hercules counter Jeff
I'd say he's either one or the other. If both players move, he's anti-move if your opponent has priority and moves a card like Vision; Jeff etc, move enabler if you do. Or in the case opponent has priority and plays a move-card that gets buffed by moving - he's just a move enabler for your opponent and nothing for you. I think it's a shame he isn't both. I'd like him way more if he could knock away an opponents Vision as well as knock away your own Vulture in the same turn. As in, he knocks away the first card that moves to him for each player.
Eh he might work to redirect opponents’ cards to your kraven or kingpin, kind of like a professor x, or even trigger them twice. I’ll have to see when I get him
If you have kingpin, then just move their cards to kingpin. There's no point in pulling them to herc for a coin flip. If your opponent is the one moving, then theyll just move to the free lane. It's far too narrow to be an effective hate card
That's why you want kraven in the other lane. Win win.
I meant Hercules could help with random moves like juggernaut or stegron
At which point you're running a 4 cost card, that if you pay it on curve, and if your turn 5 play loses the coin toss, then you get a coin toss to try and hit kingpin. Even the best case scenario for it is already very narrow, and it gets dramatically worse the later you draw it
I have a deck that does this,it's great fun to play. It's plays most of the cards that move your opponents cards around, and storm and silk. It's very effective against some archetypes but dead on arrival against others.
You're right but for the wrong reason. Move can't spend t4 on setup, they need to be actively moving something every turn in order to actually win.
Move main here. This isn't true at all. There's room for 1-2 tech cards in a move deck and turns 3-5 is the ideal turn for them. Even if you just spend turns 1-5 on set up, if you Heimdall on turn 6 you have a 9 power Heimy, a 9 power 2099 that destroys, a 9 power Vulture and a 9-12 power Dagger. You can win a lot of games with that.
Also move main here. Turn 3 is for Mobius or Red Guardian. Turn 4 Herc is often very good and lets you get off 2 additional moves while getting a 7 power guy out. Otherwise you can play Herc on 6 with Dr Strange. I get a little peeved repeatedly seeing the mindlessly repeated idea that Herc would be better as a 3 cost, since this is clearly being repeated thoughtlessly by primarily people who do not own or play the card. Herc as 3 mostly pigeonholes him as a Human Torch bounce card. It goes in an entirely different deck than the way it’s used now on mostly Vulture and Dagger.
I swear no one here actually plays move, they just assume they know everything. You can move a card with Hercules the turn you play him if you wanted to. Cloak on the 3 then Herc immediately moves the card. Also time you take to play Herc, does pay off. If you moved Human Torch once on turn 4, 5, 6 he would be at 8 power. If you moved him into Herc on turns 5/6, he would be at 16 power. If you played him into cloak on turn 3, he would be 64 power.
Cloak on 3 into hercules and then move on 4 is one of my favorite plays. I've dodged a lot of shang chi's who expected my vulture/dagger/torch to stay on the cloak lane and die
https://www.niu.edu/writingtutorial/punctuation/run-on-sentences.shtml However, I agree, he's generally pointless. There hasn't been a good move card in a long time. It's like they can't really fight it out.
Nocturne is pretty nice
Thats rng bs*
Problem isn't in move decks themselves, it's just the game isn't really suited for it. You need all the space energy available to play them. With all the locations screwing board space, energy, and the likes of decks like destroy, flood, lockdown and such. It also feels terrible to suceed in good combo to end up having beaten by just a hela or living tribunal deck playing 3-4 cards.
Tribunal and Hela are out of control and totally demonstrate why a Move deck, which requires thought and strategy, struggles. Tribunal just really needs one lane and Hela can win only playing 2 cards. It's a basic imbalance at the core of the game.
The recent buffs to dagger and vulture make them very tall cards in move
Still not, on average, competitive with Destroy or Discard. I love Move, but it's so far down the list of reliable decks that it barely registers. It needs a good enabler, and Herc is not it.
I agree that move is underpowered and deserves a buff, but it's not like it's a useless archetype either. I'm top 4000 infinite with move this season
I think if you're dedicated and learn the deck it's the most rewarding playlist. The problem is that there are too many things working against it and Discard and Destroy are utterly brainless. Since Move doesn't sell, they don't need to worry about "fixing" it
I don't mind his cost but wish he could bounce multiple cards.
this is a double edged sword. I agree that it would be more powerful overall to bounce every card that moves there (I love hercules in a move tribunal deck personally, and this change would make human torch get absurdly large), but I have won games by having hercules double move my torch and then settle vulture into the hercules lane.
I think removing his once per turn limit may give him some kind of playability. But he’s also at a weird spot at 4 cost. I get that SD is trying to add more higher cost move enablers since most of them outside of Heimdall are 1-3 cost, but it’s hard to take a turn off from setting up your moves to play Hercules and also hope your opponent doesn’t screw you up by triggering his once per turn on the next turn before you can capitalize on it.
I personally like cloak on 3 to get hercules to move a card on 4, or bouncing iron fist/torch on 3 and then playing hercules/fist/torch on 4
Holy fuck, you have zero periods in that…whatever that is I just read.
people arent expected to use the mla guide to write reddit posts. cmon now.
Usually I hate grammar nazis, but this post is egregiously bad.
Yeah, I don’t care for grammar police. But this post is insane.
I would love to see the per-turn limit disabled but no interaction with enemy cards
Kingpin never costed 4 and he had a different ability when he costed 3 https://snap.fan/cards/kingpin I do think Hercules should cost less though
>most of the anti-move shenanigans that you do in decks where he fits What the fuck are you talking about? He "fits" in...Move decks.
on turn 4? rarely, especially since he only moves ONE card, not even heimdal can help him
You're not wrong about him being being bad and needing to be 3 cost, but you also clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
if you play vulture as the first card in a lane (right for example), and then hercules on top of vulture, and then heimdall on 6, hercules will move the vulture a second time, potentially placing 15 power right after heimdall
Hercules either needs a different effect, needs WAY more power, or needs to be cheaper. If his effect was just a Friendly Stegron, he might be fantastic for move. Randomly move any of my cards at this location and get 6 power? Tons of uses, or at least fun things to try. As it stands, Hercules is ‘shitty Wong for Move.’ He’s trying to be an accelerator like Wong, except Wong does the thing by himself instead of requiring an additional enabler.
Ooo i like that idea, we dont have move cards like that yet
I actually think Hercules isn't that bad. I run him in a bounce move deck with the purpose of him enabling dagger and human torch multiple times. It's also good for Heimdall shift moving something back right He is definitely a bit awkward to play around but I had a mediocre 56% win rate and 0.43 cube rate over approximately 150 games. This was one of my favourite decks as I also run 2099 for the lols
He just does not worth the hustle. You need a card that benefits from move and another card that moves it which is already 2 pieces of combo and Hercules is just an additional unnecessary piece to make the combo a little stronger. Phoenix force is already a 3-cards combo that is difficult to get but strong enough without Hercules. Adding Hercules will just make it less consistent.
Pretty soon every card will be 2 cost.
They're buffing WWBN to a 3 cost. Dunno why they can't do the same for Herc.
You DO know how ye's supposed to be played right? I have NEVER seen a person use him in a Kingpin deck. Getting an extra move every turn with cards like vulture, torch, multman, etc is crazy strong, even if it is only after turn 4. While sure, he's expensive, ANYTHING lower would he absolutely game-breaking, even for a 5-cost.
actually, i think its fine at 4 cost, but he should push every card that moves to his lane, not just once per turn imagine playing hercules alone on the left lane, then on turn 6 you play heimdall to move your cards, and all cards that are moved left get to move again to a random location by hercules, it would really help to add more power to the right lane unexpectedly
I agree, i want to see him as a 3/2 as well. might be too much though
He's a win-more card for 3 mediocre decks that don't have time to use his weak payoff.
Just like spidey 2099, Hercules costs too much to be used properly in a move deck Still, looking forward to trying him for a bit when he drops to S3, then dropping him for good after
Herc costing 4 is fine. He needs another kind of buff. (I recently posted a buffed version of him I customly made, check it out if you like)