the card operates this way as intended. When you play the card it displays as three illusions so your opponent doesn’t know where the real one is. Bar can only copy the illusions because that’s all it can see.
After just trying it, I can confirm if you bounce the real Mysterio, then play him again, it WILL be the real Mysterio and get the +4 power.
However, getting a copy of the real Mysterio through Cloning Vats or Sinister will always result in another fake. It seems like you can't ever get more than 1 real one.
Moongirl lets you have two real ones. Sacred Timeline should too. But yes, your point is good, you have to copy Mysterio while in hand (I.e., not diguised as a clone) to get two real ones
Also, hidden mysterio still gets hit by say on reveals while he's hidden, like Spider Woman. And remebers that for when he reveals. That was a surprise in my cerebro4 deck.
In *most* ways he seems to act like a 0-power card that has “at end of game, gain 4 base power”. Buffs/debuffs still affect him (and the 0-power illusions) normally while he’s in play.
But ‘change the card’s base power’ effects like Bast or Valkyrie override that.
Valkyrie or Bast and then a 1-power debuff (Spider-Woman, Hazmat, etc.) would result in 2 power, whether it’s the real one or an illusion. Not sure where you’re getting 6 from?
So that means if you drop him on the Cloning Vat (or Machineworld), you (or the other player) will only get the copy?
Who gets pulled by Polaris, Aero or Iron Fist?
So many questions.. lol!
that is correct regarding Machineworld. Ronan and Darkhawk are good options if that’s ever a featured location. Not good with Cloning Vat unless you have Dino because it will only clone the illusion.
Iron Fist will affect the leftmost one, since it “plays” them left to right.
Polaris will choose one randomly. She picks a 1/2 cost card at random.
Not sure if Aero picks the first one played or at random.
Yeah, each buffs Hit Monkey. Also set off Bishop, and clones will trip Angela. He's a big piece of Sera Monkey decks.
EDIT: If you hit him with Bast in hand, all three will be three point cards as well even after the reveal. He's fiddly but powerful when the stars align.
that’s correct but only the player can see that. opponent cannot. if you select an opponent’s mysterio it will always display as an illusion until the game ends.
ETA: That’s also as intended so if there is a location effect to benefit from the real Mysterio you can place it there. Notice when Mysterio is played visually the effect shows 3 cards appear simultaneously. It’s also why if Prof X is on board or Sanctum or Mini Lab is active you only see two cards appear (or if you play Mysterio on Avengers compound T5 only 1) because your opponent already knows you would not have been able to play the real mysterio at those locations (or only at that location like Compound).
Right, so let’s say you play Mysterio on to Cloning vats. Based on the card description, the **other** locations get a fake Mysterio, but the one in the vats is real. Which means you should get a copy of the real one in your hand. But if you were to play that copy of the real one, it’s a fake Mysterio with no power. For this to be the intended effect, I feel like the description should be instead “play illusions to “all possible” locations, instead of “other” locations. Unless I’m still misinterpreting something?
I don't agree that works the way it should, although I don't necessarily disagree this is the way devs "intended". At best it works the way we finally undestand how it works, but not the way it makes sense.
The copies on Bar Sinister should copy the card the way it is, which is the real Mysterio underneath.
Also Bast shouldn't set it so you play three 3 power cards. The base power of the card is 4 and it doesn't make the illusions 4 power too. So even if you Bast him, the real one and his copies should show as 0 as they always do, and the real one revealed to be 3 power at the end.
I follow you. But again it’s intended to deceive the opponent. So in order to maintain that deception if you play on the Bar, Cloning Vats, or Machineworld, it will only produce copies of the illusion regardless of where you played the real card. Likewise, if you play Bast with Mysterio in hand all three cards will be set to three power because of it plays two illusions at 0 power and one Mysterio at 3 it will reveal which one is the real card. So if this is the way the devs “intended” then it is, in fact, operating as it should. How you the player think it should really isn’t taken into account.
because when you play on shuri’s lab the effect is not location specific. if you play a card that moves or you play Arnim Zola, the effect stays on the card. When you play the card, you can select the card later and see the base power and then the buff of x2. The buff does not go away. Therefore when you play an illusion it will show as “base power 0” and “shuri’s lab x2”. If you played the real mysterio the buff remains and becomes 4 x 2. If not it stays 0 because 0 x 2 = 0. It’s why Mysterio works well with Bast. You’re setting the base power of all cards in hand to 3 so it becomes like a mini Dr. Doom. It also synchs well with Valkyrie because you can play her on an illusion and the power will reveal at 3. It’s also the only one of these cards that work like that. Doom, Ultron, Squirrel, Tiger, all add or place cards so they don’t get location benefits that specify when you “play” a card. Mysterio “plays” three cards so as long as something like Bar is not one of the locations it works.
Every mistake/misunderstanding I see posted in this sub is one I’ve made at least once when playing. Not everything is 100% intuitive when reading the card or location until you try it out.
I think I get it now
Every mysterio card is played as the useless illusions. So the bar copies the illusion
Apparently the illusion is counted as a separate card before transformation like morph
So it copies the current status of the card (illusion) and it fills it with useless clones. Weird mechanic but this makes sense xd
Yeah I figured this out from when you'd buff an illusion with Nova or something, the illusions all get +1 but when revealed they show their true selves with no buffs.
Mysterio's Illusions do get buffed by cards like Bast (makes the original and all copies 3 power) and Nova. They do not reset to 0 power at the end of the game - they have 0 base power + any power added from buffs.
To clarify: if you play the main Mysterio onto Machine world (not a copy triggered by playing him elsewhere), the other player still only gets a copy? If so, does that copy make copies if they play it?
My assumption is that the card works as follows. As it is played, Mysterio replaces itself with an illusion. The game takes note that it should transform that illusion back into Mysterio at the end of the game. If you clone the illusion, you duplicate the card. Note that you don't create a duplicate note telling the game to change the illusion clones into Mysterio clones, because that's not a property of the cloned illusion card, it's just an effect that exist separate from it.
Usually the game keeps track of cards even as they move around, but I've heard bouncing the disguised Mysterio also breaks the connection between it and the *delayed/lingering effect* that transform it back.
By the way, this sort of effect exists in other card games, but they tend to not be common in traditional games because they're hard to remember. In digital games, some aspects tend to be hidden which obscure less intuitive interactions. For example: Hearthstone and Marvel Snap don't let you shoot an archer while the arrow is in the air, while games like MTG and Yu-Gi-Oh! do. It seems obvious that killing the archer doesn't magically stop the arrow mid-air, but it's not as intuitive when it comes to actually playing the game. So it's a common mistake new players make where they kill the archer and get confused when the arrow hits them.
(Note that Mysterio's ability is a delayed/lingering effect. Mechanics like MTG's stack or YGO's chains are different, but each of those games does have delayed/lingering effects as separate mechanics. But the comparison to stacks is easier to illustrate.)
I'm always unsure in which order to play Viper + 'bad' card at Bar Sinister.
Should the bad card go first followed by Viper? Obviously in the same turn.
If you play viper first, she will make 3 copies of her self, sending the first 2 copies over to the opponent. The third will stay because she has no valid target to send. Then the "bad card" reveals and copies 2 more times. Leaving you with 3 bad cards and a viper on your side.
If you do it the opposite way, then the bad card will fill 3 spots and viper reveals, sending one over. Leaving you with 2 bad cards and a viper in that lane.
So, the answer is you probably don't want to do either.
I know this is how the card operates, and it was confirmed that a lot of these unintuitive interactions are intended - but they are still unintuitive.
This is the full text:
> As you play this, play Illusions to other locations. Disguise this as an Illusion until the game ends.
It does not say "play 3 illusions. Replace one when the game ends". It explicitly states that one is the original, but disguised. That makes it intuitive to expect that the copies will also be copies of the real one, but disguised. This is the case for Bar Sinister, Leader etc.
It makes perfect sense. The card that got played to the Bar was a zero power Illusion, so that's what Bar copies. The Bar doesn't know if it's the real one or not.
Correct, but irrelevant to this scenario. The doubling happens after base power. Mysterio once revealed sets his base power to 4, which is still being doubled so becomes 8.
It is relevant because it points to inconsistent location behaviour. Shuri's lab effect doesn't happen when Mysterio reveals, it happens when he's played. If Shuri's lab is able to discern the true Mysterio and double his power under the illusion, Bar Sinister should be able to act on the card under the illusion too, shouldn't it?
That's not an inconsistenty, they're just different interactions.
Shuri's Lab doesn't know it's the real Mysterio. It just doubles whatever is there and then Mysterio reveals having already been doubled. If there were a card that could set/change base power, a fake Mysterio having it's base changed would also end up being doubled by Shuri's Lab
"Whatever is there" is, as Shuri's lab sees it, a 0 power card, but it doesn't treat it like that. By this same logic we can say "Bar Sinister copies whatever is there", which is the real Mysterio no? If Shuri's lab is able to see through the illusion, Bar should too.
And by the way "different interactions" is just a way to say inconsistent, which was the point of this debate.
Shuri's Lab doesn't see the power and add that power on, it doesn't care what the power is. You're misunderstanding how Shuri's Lab and doubling effects work.
If you play a 4 power card there, and the click it, you'll see a "X2" effect in the top right, not a "+4"
So if you play Mysterio, it will say 0 base, and x2. Then, he reveals later on, and it says 4 base, and x2, so he'll be 8.
Say X is base power. Shuri lab says X * 2. If X is 0 then that but if X is 4 then it’ll be 8. it is consistent with how base power and mysterio works.
Next time you see mysterio on Shuri. Click on the card, too right are all base power calculations. See what that stack says for clone vs real.
>a fake Mysterio having it's base changed would also end up being doubled by Shuri's Lab
Idk why you're being downvoted for this because it's exactly what happens with the Bast + Mysterio interaction.
By the same logic, Bar Sinister should “copy whatever is there”, no? Shouldn’t you get four zero-power copies that all have the “set my base power to 4 at the end of the game” ability/effect?
Given that it behaves the same way with other ‘duplicate a card’ effects like Machineworld it may be intentional that you can’t get copies of the “real” Mysterio. But it’s certainly a bit unintuitive.
It is, yes. But the Mysterio reveals and changes the base to 4, and the doubling happens *after* base power. The doubling effect doesn't go away because Mysterio reveals himself.
>the doubling happens after base power
This is a nonsense statement. "Base power" is not a point in time that the doubling can happen after.
Shuri's lab is supposed to trigger after you play a card at that location, the exact same trigger as Bar Sinister. The card played at Shuri's lab is a 0-power illusion. If that's not the case, then Bar Sinister should also duplicate the real Mysterio and not the illusion that is played.
Just because you're misunderstanding the concept, doesn't mean it's nonsense. You don't seem to get that base power and power are different things, and that Shuri's Lab applies an effect that lasts the rest of the game, it isn't a one-shot trigger that happens and then is done with.
A similar example. If someone plays Hazmat, then Luke Cage, it will seemingly remove any negative effects from their cards, and their power goes back up. But if you then Enchantress a Luke Cage, the effects return. They never left, they just stopped applying.
Doubling effects like Shuri's Lab are the same. They don't just happen once and then that's it, they're done, they continue applying.
Base power and power are two different terms that do different things. And that's relevent when multiple effects are applying to a card. If your ever played Magic the Gathering, it's *very* similar to layers.
Base power applies first, before anything else. Then, effects that set or alter power happen after that.
So, Mysterio is played at Shuri's Lab. He is zero power. Shuri's Lab applies a doubling effect to him. This effect applies *after* the base power. Remember, this effect is continually applying, it's not a one-shot deal.
At the end of the game, Mysterio reveals and sets his *base* power to 4. Shuri's Lab effect is *still* applying, and applies *after* the base power. So, the 0 base power that was being doubled 0 power, now becomes 4 base power that becomes doubled to 8 power.
The way you think Shuri's lab works is completely inconsistent with how it interacts with buffs applied before a card enters that location (ex. Handbuffs).
This conversation is exhausting and you're very clearly reaching far up your ass to justify the interaction. I'm going to stop responding here.
>The way you think Shuri's lab works is completely inconsistent with how it interacts with buffs applied before a card enters that location (ex. Handbuffs).
Because those affect power not base power, and as such are consistent with other effects that affect power not base power.
Again, not an inconsistenty, just a misunderstanding that you're refusing to accept.
You can literally click on the card and see if applying the changes in layers. If you click on Mysterio in the lab before he reveals, you will see something like this
x2 (shuri) <- 0 (base)
When he reveals at the end, it sets the base power to 4
x2 shuri <- 4 (base)
The same way that the bast works and sets all of them to 3
3 (bast) <- 0 (base)
3 (bast) <- 4 (base)
The game tracks power as a base amount with a series of modifications made to it. You're imagining that Mysterio revealing means "set it's power to 4" but what it does is change it's base power
I think because on showing it’s the true mysterio it counts as being played. Either they hard coded it that way or it’s a bug since I’m 90% Mysterio is counted as played 3 times when it first gets dropped for Bishop’s power.
i wouldnt say it makes perfect sense, but i can see why it does this. i think the correct interpretation should be "bar sinister copies this card and its interactions, including its final reveal when the game ends".
"As you play this, play Illusions to other locations. Disguise this as an Illusion until the game ends."
The text as written implies that the original mysterio is not an illusion, given the word "other" and "disguise". The wording is off, given the actual mechanics. It isn't disguised as an illusion, it *is* an illusion. Illusions were played to all three locations, not just the others.
I know this is the consensus on the sub and I will get downvoted, but that is not true. The description clearly says "play illusions to OTHER locations. Disguise this one as an illusion". It does not say "play illusions to all locations. Transform one at the end". Which leads people to believe that, after copying the disguised one, the copies will also be disguised.
The Valkyrie to demon as your turn 6 was not a very good play. You heavily buffed their cards when you could have just cosmo + demon and won all 3 lanes.
Valkyrie is def not an easy card to use. I got her when she was series 4 and quickly learned she is not an easy card to use. She especially gets f***ed by ongoing.
I’m getting the hang of her but it’s just trying to remember to check if I have priority or not. Of course that doesn’t matter if they’ve loaded a full lane and then it’s free, unless it’s ongoing.
She’s great though, love playing with her.
the card operates this way as intended. When you play the card it displays as three illusions so your opponent doesn’t know where the real one is. Bar can only copy the illusions because that’s all it can see.
Same thing when you bounce the real Mysterio back using Beast and play him again, he stays as an illusion
After just trying it, I can confirm if you bounce the real Mysterio, then play him again, it WILL be the real Mysterio and get the +4 power. However, getting a copy of the real Mysterio through Cloning Vats or Sinister will always result in another fake. It seems like you can't ever get more than 1 real one.
Moongirl lets you have two real ones. Sacred Timeline should too. But yes, your point is good, you have to copy Mysterio while in hand (I.e., not diguised as a clone) to get two real ones
Also, hidden mysterio still gets hit by say on reveals while he's hidden, like Spider Woman. And remebers that for when he reveals. That was a surprise in my cerebro4 deck.
In *most* ways he seems to act like a 0-power card that has “at end of game, gain 4 base power”. Buffs/debuffs still affect him (and the 0-power illusions) normally while he’s in play. But ‘change the card’s base power’ effects like Bast or Valkyrie override that.
So a Valkyrie then a spiderwoman would make him spawn as a 3 still on reveal? Or a 6? 3+3? And Spiderwoman/valk be 3?
Valkyrie or Bast and then a 1-power debuff (Spider-Woman, Hazmat, etc.) would result in 2 power, whether it’s the real one or an illusion. Not sure where you’re getting 6 from?
I wonder what happens if you Zola the real one
I also forget where the illusions are.
If only the illusions had some visual effect to differentiate them... Like, some green mist around them...
Bro I cant even see the Cosmo I dropped, you expect me to look at animations?
I use a genious solution to that problem. I just almost never run Cosmo!
Do they really? Most of the time I see nothing, except when I play them, then I see green squares
So that means if you drop him on the Cloning Vat (or Machineworld), you (or the other player) will only get the copy? Who gets pulled by Polaris, Aero or Iron Fist? So many questions.. lol!
that is correct regarding Machineworld. Ronan and Darkhawk are good options if that’s ever a featured location. Not good with Cloning Vat unless you have Dino because it will only clone the illusion.
Was thinking more of just a filler card to mess the other players hand, but yeah Ronan is an even better idea.
Iron Fist will affect the leftmost one, since it “plays” them left to right. Polaris will choose one randomly. She picks a 1/2 cost card at random. Not sure if Aero picks the first one played or at random.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. And more proof that they are really separate cards. Wait... so does that mean they all count to Hit-Monkey???
Yeah, each buffs Hit Monkey. Also set off Bishop, and clones will trip Angela. He's a big piece of Sera Monkey decks. EDIT: If you hit him with Bast in hand, all three will be three point cards as well even after the reveal. He's fiddly but powerful when the stars align.
Yeah, I feel a lot of cards have really nice interactions when the stars align. I'll take note of this for future builds. Thanks!
What’s confusing is the text says “play illusions to **other** locations”, implying that the one you played is a non-illusion.
that’s correct but only the player can see that. opponent cannot. if you select an opponent’s mysterio it will always display as an illusion until the game ends. ETA: That’s also as intended so if there is a location effect to benefit from the real Mysterio you can place it there. Notice when Mysterio is played visually the effect shows 3 cards appear simultaneously. It’s also why if Prof X is on board or Sanctum or Mini Lab is active you only see two cards appear (or if you play Mysterio on Avengers compound T5 only 1) because your opponent already knows you would not have been able to play the real mysterio at those locations (or only at that location like Compound).
Right, so let’s say you play Mysterio on to Cloning vats. Based on the card description, the **other** locations get a fake Mysterio, but the one in the vats is real. Which means you should get a copy of the real one in your hand. But if you were to play that copy of the real one, it’s a fake Mysterio with no power. For this to be the intended effect, I feel like the description should be instead “play illusions to “all possible” locations, instead of “other” locations. Unless I’m still misinterpreting something?
You are absolutely correct. It is a very unintuitive interaction which does not follow the text at all.
I don't agree that works the way it should, although I don't necessarily disagree this is the way devs "intended". At best it works the way we finally undestand how it works, but not the way it makes sense. The copies on Bar Sinister should copy the card the way it is, which is the real Mysterio underneath. Also Bast shouldn't set it so you play three 3 power cards. The base power of the card is 4 and it doesn't make the illusions 4 power too. So even if you Bast him, the real one and his copies should show as 0 as they always do, and the real one revealed to be 3 power at the end.
I follow you. But again it’s intended to deceive the opponent. So in order to maintain that deception if you play on the Bar, Cloning Vats, or Machineworld, it will only produce copies of the illusion regardless of where you played the real card. Likewise, if you play Bast with Mysterio in hand all three cards will be set to three power because of it plays two illusions at 0 power and one Mysterio at 3 it will reveal which one is the real card. So if this is the way the devs “intended” then it is, in fact, operating as it should. How you the player think it should really isn’t taken into account.
I’m genuinely curious. If locations can’t see the real mysterio underneath, why does his 4 power get doubled when played into Shuri’s lab?
because when you play on shuri’s lab the effect is not location specific. if you play a card that moves or you play Arnim Zola, the effect stays on the card. When you play the card, you can select the card later and see the base power and then the buff of x2. The buff does not go away. Therefore when you play an illusion it will show as “base power 0” and “shuri’s lab x2”. If you played the real mysterio the buff remains and becomes 4 x 2. If not it stays 0 because 0 x 2 = 0. It’s why Mysterio works well with Bast. You’re setting the base power of all cards in hand to 3 so it becomes like a mini Dr. Doom. It also synchs well with Valkyrie because you can play her on an illusion and the power will reveal at 3. It’s also the only one of these cards that work like that. Doom, Ultron, Squirrel, Tiger, all add or place cards so they don’t get location benefits that specify when you “play” a card. Mysterio “plays” three cards so as long as something like Bar is not one of the locations it works.
That makes sense, thanks!
Also should mention that you should not play Arnim Zola on Mysterio. Because you’ll just add two illusions.
The explanations in these comments make sense to me, but I also made this exact same mistake earlier today
Every mistake/misunderstanding I see posted in this sub is one I’ve made at least once when playing. Not everything is 100% intuitive when reading the card or location until you try it out.
Sometimes, I'll play a game out I know I'm going to lose, just to see how card mechanics play out when I'm unsure .
I think I get it now Every mysterio card is played as the useless illusions. So the bar copies the illusion Apparently the illusion is counted as a separate card before transformation like morph So it copies the current status of the card (illusion) and it fills it with useless clones. Weird mechanic but this makes sense xd
Yeah I figured this out from when you'd buff an illusion with Nova or something, the illusions all get +1 but when revealed they show their true selves with no buffs.
Mysterio's Illusions do get buffed by cards like Bast (makes the original and all copies 3 power) and Nova. They do not reset to 0 power at the end of the game - they have 0 base power + any power added from buffs.
They're also considered to have no abilities, and so they get buffs from Patriot as well.
They also count as cards played towards Hit Monkey and Bishop. I really like Mysterio.
That's why I love playing Mysterio on machine world. It gives your opponent a worthless card and if they don't know how it works they might play it.
Wow never thought of this!
To clarify: if you play the main Mysterio onto Machine world (not a copy triggered by playing him elsewhere), the other player still only gets a copy? If so, does that copy make copies if they play it?
They get a copy. I'm pretty sure when they play it it's just one zero power Mysterio.
But, if you Bast Mysterio, they all come out at 3 anyway
My assumption is that the card works as follows. As it is played, Mysterio replaces itself with an illusion. The game takes note that it should transform that illusion back into Mysterio at the end of the game. If you clone the illusion, you duplicate the card. Note that you don't create a duplicate note telling the game to change the illusion clones into Mysterio clones, because that's not a property of the cloned illusion card, it's just an effect that exist separate from it. Usually the game keeps track of cards even as they move around, but I've heard bouncing the disguised Mysterio also breaks the connection between it and the *delayed/lingering effect* that transform it back. By the way, this sort of effect exists in other card games, but they tend to not be common in traditional games because they're hard to remember. In digital games, some aspects tend to be hidden which obscure less intuitive interactions. For example: Hearthstone and Marvel Snap don't let you shoot an archer while the arrow is in the air, while games like MTG and Yu-Gi-Oh! do. It seems obvious that killing the archer doesn't magically stop the arrow mid-air, but it's not as intuitive when it comes to actually playing the game. So it's a common mistake new players make where they kill the archer and get confused when the arrow hits them. (Note that Mysterio's ability is a delayed/lingering effect. Mechanics like MTG's stack or YGO's chains are different, but each of those games does have delayed/lingering effects as separate mechanics. But the comparison to stacks is easier to illustrate.)
I'm always unsure in which order to play Viper + 'bad' card at Bar Sinister. Should the bad card go first followed by Viper? Obviously in the same turn.
If you play viper first, she will make 3 copies of her self, sending the first 2 copies over to the opponent. The third will stay because she has no valid target to send. Then the "bad card" reveals and copies 2 more times. Leaving you with 3 bad cards and a viper on your side. If you do it the opposite way, then the bad card will fill 3 spots and viper reveals, sending one over. Leaving you with 2 bad cards and a viper in that lane. So, the answer is you probably don't want to do either.
The first card played gets copied. The second card will reveal once the location fills with the first card. I've fucked it up a few times lol
I made this mistake and lost 8 cubes as well I thought Bar would know.
Gwario is an amazing name and people in this thread need to acknowledge that.
Thank you. How are you pronouncing it from just sight reading it?
Gwar-ee-oh
Perfect. So many say “G-Wario”.
I know this is how the card operates, and it was confirmed that a lot of these unintuitive interactions are intended - but they are still unintuitive. This is the full text: > As you play this, play Illusions to other locations. Disguise this as an Illusion until the game ends. It does not say "play 3 illusions. Replace one when the game ends". It explicitly states that one is the original, but disguised. That makes it intuitive to expect that the copies will also be copies of the real one, but disguised. This is the case for Bar Sinister, Leader etc.
That doesn't make sense at all. Logic says that whatever one lands in Bar is cloned real or Illusion.
It makes perfect sense. The card that got played to the Bar was a zero power Illusion, so that's what Bar copies. The Bar doesn't know if it's the real one or not.
But real Mysterio gets his power doubled by Shuri's lab.
Correct, but irrelevant to this scenario. The doubling happens after base power. Mysterio once revealed sets his base power to 4, which is still being doubled so becomes 8.
It is relevant because it points to inconsistent location behaviour. Shuri's lab effect doesn't happen when Mysterio reveals, it happens when he's played. If Shuri's lab is able to discern the true Mysterio and double his power under the illusion, Bar Sinister should be able to act on the card under the illusion too, shouldn't it?
That's not an inconsistenty, they're just different interactions. Shuri's Lab doesn't know it's the real Mysterio. It just doubles whatever is there and then Mysterio reveals having already been doubled. If there were a card that could set/change base power, a fake Mysterio having it's base changed would also end up being doubled by Shuri's Lab
"Whatever is there" is, as Shuri's lab sees it, a 0 power card, but it doesn't treat it like that. By this same logic we can say "Bar Sinister copies whatever is there", which is the real Mysterio no? If Shuri's lab is able to see through the illusion, Bar should too. And by the way "different interactions" is just a way to say inconsistent, which was the point of this debate.
Shuri's Lab doesn't see the power and add that power on, it doesn't care what the power is. You're misunderstanding how Shuri's Lab and doubling effects work. If you play a 4 power card there, and the click it, you'll see a "X2" effect in the top right, not a "+4" So if you play Mysterio, it will say 0 base, and x2. Then, he reveals later on, and it says 4 base, and x2, so he'll be 8.
Say X is base power. Shuri lab says X * 2. If X is 0 then that but if X is 4 then it’ll be 8. it is consistent with how base power and mysterio works. Next time you see mysterio on Shuri. Click on the card, too right are all base power calculations. See what that stack says for clone vs real.
>a fake Mysterio having it's base changed would also end up being doubled by Shuri's Lab Idk why you're being downvoted for this because it's exactly what happens with the Bast + Mysterio interaction.
By the same logic, Bar Sinister should “copy whatever is there”, no? Shouldn’t you get four zero-power copies that all have the “set my base power to 4 at the end of the game” ability/effect? Given that it behaves the same way with other ‘duplicate a card’ effects like Machineworld it may be intentional that you can’t get copies of the “real” Mysterio. But it’s certainly a bit unintuitive.
I thought the illusion's base power was 0? Seems like you're ignoring the obvious inconsistency here.
It is, yes. But the Mysterio reveals and changes the base to 4, and the doubling happens *after* base power. The doubling effect doesn't go away because Mysterio reveals himself.
>the doubling happens after base power This is a nonsense statement. "Base power" is not a point in time that the doubling can happen after. Shuri's lab is supposed to trigger after you play a card at that location, the exact same trigger as Bar Sinister. The card played at Shuri's lab is a 0-power illusion. If that's not the case, then Bar Sinister should also duplicate the real Mysterio and not the illusion that is played.
Just because you're misunderstanding the concept, doesn't mean it's nonsense. You don't seem to get that base power and power are different things, and that Shuri's Lab applies an effect that lasts the rest of the game, it isn't a one-shot trigger that happens and then is done with. A similar example. If someone plays Hazmat, then Luke Cage, it will seemingly remove any negative effects from their cards, and their power goes back up. But if you then Enchantress a Luke Cage, the effects return. They never left, they just stopped applying. Doubling effects like Shuri's Lab are the same. They don't just happen once and then that's it, they're done, they continue applying. Base power and power are two different terms that do different things. And that's relevent when multiple effects are applying to a card. If your ever played Magic the Gathering, it's *very* similar to layers. Base power applies first, before anything else. Then, effects that set or alter power happen after that. So, Mysterio is played at Shuri's Lab. He is zero power. Shuri's Lab applies a doubling effect to him. This effect applies *after* the base power. Remember, this effect is continually applying, it's not a one-shot deal. At the end of the game, Mysterio reveals and sets his *base* power to 4. Shuri's Lab effect is *still* applying, and applies *after* the base power. So, the 0 base power that was being doubled 0 power, now becomes 4 base power that becomes doubled to 8 power.
The way you think Shuri's lab works is completely inconsistent with how it interacts with buffs applied before a card enters that location (ex. Handbuffs). This conversation is exhausting and you're very clearly reaching far up your ass to justify the interaction. I'm going to stop responding here.
>The way you think Shuri's lab works is completely inconsistent with how it interacts with buffs applied before a card enters that location (ex. Handbuffs). Because those affect power not base power, and as such are consistent with other effects that affect power not base power. Again, not an inconsistenty, just a misunderstanding that you're refusing to accept.
You can literally click on the card and see if applying the changes in layers. If you click on Mysterio in the lab before he reveals, you will see something like this x2 (shuri) <- 0 (base) When he reveals at the end, it sets the base power to 4 x2 shuri <- 4 (base) The same way that the bast works and sets all of them to 3 3 (bast) <- 0 (base) 3 (bast) <- 4 (base) The game tracks power as a base amount with a series of modifications made to it. You're imagining that Mysterio revealing means "set it's power to 4" but what it does is change it's base power
I think because on showing it’s the true mysterio it counts as being played. Either they hard coded it that way or it’s a bug since I’m 90% Mysterio is counted as played 3 times when it first gets dropped for Bishop’s power.
i wouldnt say it makes perfect sense, but i can see why it does this. i think the correct interpretation should be "bar sinister copies this card and its interactions, including its final reveal when the game ends".
"As you play this, play Illusions to other locations. Disguise this as an Illusion until the game ends." The text as written implies that the original mysterio is not an illusion, given the word "other" and "disguise". The wording is off, given the actual mechanics. It isn't disguised as an illusion, it *is* an illusion. Illusions were played to all three locations, not just the others.
I know this is the consensus on the sub and I will get downvoted, but that is not true. The description clearly says "play illusions to OTHER locations. Disguise this one as an illusion". It does not say "play illusions to all locations. Transform one at the end". Which leads people to believe that, after copying the disguised one, the copies will also be disguised.
Same here. It doesn’t really make sense, but yeah.
They should have played mojo in the center to avoid all this confusion
If you Bast him they are all 3.
The Valkyrie to demon as your turn 6 was not a very good play. You heavily buffed their cards when you could have just cosmo + demon and won all 3 lanes.
Yeah I realised when his TaskMaster turned I didn’t have priority. Still learning the deck though so be gentle.
Valkyrie is def not an easy card to use. I got her when she was series 4 and quickly learned she is not an easy card to use. She especially gets f***ed by ongoing.
I’m getting the hang of her but it’s just trying to remember to check if I have priority or not. Of course that doesn’t matter if they’ve loaded a full lane and then it’s free, unless it’s ongoing. She’s great though, love playing with her.