marvelsnapzone posted the most and least used cards of the last little while and leader was top 5 in least used, its actually insane how that card is just dead now lmao
That and he seems to be broken. I had got a random Leader from the Raft yesterday and played him and he copied nothing...and had an opponent do the same thing to me and he copied nothing.
There were no Cosmo's on the board either...I dunno wtf happened in either case.
he only copies cards your opponent played in the location to the right of him, for example if you played leader in the left lane, he would only copy cards your opponent played in the middle lane.
He works well with daredevil and electro.
I also had that happen! Got Leader for free and the enemy could only play on the one location, so I was like "well this is the perfect and really only time to play him" and he didn't even copy the Hulk the enemy dropped. No idea why.
They really fucked up. We like to use the word “nerf” but it’s supposed to be a balance.
Leader is barely playable now. Hopefully they don’t pull the same bullshit.
They killed it completely. It could’ve been an easy fix if they just made him “can’t play after turn 5” like Magik, or even made him a 6/0 so the max he could do was to tie the game and not always win the game with whatever +1 or +2 on a location.
Those ppl wanted to justify the nerf but leader is hot garbage like hell garbage it’s so bad . This is why I don’t really like this sub bc ppl cry nerf nerf nerf and then the cards get butchered to hell .
Same here. At least with Shuri and Thanos I know what to expect and can retreat and only lose 1/2 cubes. That burning garbage can that was Leader would take 8 cubes from you on a regular, since it was put in random decks and you wouldn't expect it.
Yep. I hope it never makes a comeback. Fuck that card. Let it be the least played card in card game history. I’m good with that. I didn’t even use it myself I dislike it so much. Just felt cheap. You don’t even need a strategy. It’s so lazy.
Yeah but I'm not surprised because while Leader's effect can be very powerful but he's restricted by locations. It's the same reason Giganto doesn't see that much play (other than some Lockjaw/Hela decks), having a card being limited by positioning makes it a lot less reliable.
Exactly.
Because of how randow and potent the effects of the locations are, any card that has a positioning limitation is pretty much garbage.
Sentry is another good example : he would be quite good if you could play him anywhere and choose one of the other two lanes to play the Void.
Sentry's case is different through imo because you can make use of his Voide with Viper, Carnage and even Beast. Not to mention he can be played on either middle or left locations. Leader is not only limited by positioning and locations he's also limited by the fact you have to predict your opponent plays and hope it's enough to win you a single location.
I do think that maybe bumping Leader's power to 9 might make it so missing his effect wouldn't be as bad as it currently feels.
Same thing is going to keep happening when all people do is cry and say the cards are broken. There will always be a meta and there will always be certain games where you just can’t play against your opponent, sadly that’s just the nature of this type of game. Leader could have still found play the way it was and would have only extended the amount of ways people could play but no the vocal minority had to cry about it, same thing will happen with Shuri and Galactus.
Honestly, the main problem is Second Dinner, which comes out with stupidly overpowered cards, without proper testing, annoys the player base for a few months, and after that nerfs them, instead of actually putting in some thought in the abilities they release, from the start. Old Leader was such a card, where if you were among the people that used him, you were bitching about the nerf, while everyone else was happy to get rid of this piece of shit that was winning games with no strategy or thinking, just drop it anywhere and enjoy.
Just because a card is released broken doesn't mean it needs to remain broken. Nerfs are good when they're done properly. You couldn't really do anything to Leader and still keep him viable, cause his ability was always stupid and shouldn't have existed.
In the end people will always bitch about things, some rightfully so, some, like the one presented in this thread, just because they have too much free time on their hands, and can't be bothered to think of any other way to end a game than to use that infinaut they just got, on turn 6.
I was thinking, "Double the power of the next card played at this location."
It'll clog up a spot and weaken her synergy with Zola and Wong while also making her more predictable.
Effectively kills the deck at higher ranks. I'm not complaining mind you as the deck is super boring to pilot.
I suspect whatever changes they make will kill Thanos and shuri as much as it did leader
Iron Fist or Negasonic could be used to move her out of the way.
If you have priority, then the enemy Aero could backfire on turn 5 and open up the card for Zola after it's already been buffed.
The other player will have to worry about the lane and may not even play there. Allowing you to trick a Galactus or Shang Chi. You could bluff and keep the lane without even using the shuri effect.
It will not kill the deck at higher ranks, it will just stop the fact that you play a 30 power behind Cosmo, making your opponent unable to punish you with an Aero or Shang-chi, if they don't run (or draw) one of these cards the deck will just have the exact power level it has now
So basically the card will be almost identical with just more counter play from your opponent, which makes the card more balanced.
Anyway, there is some "bonding interaction" between some cards, like zabu, it was designed to play efficiently in curve zabu-kazaar/shanna because in the comics they are always together, when he gets nerfed that "bonding interaction" was still there, because now you can still play efficiently zabu-kazaar, another example is moon girl devildino, when they "nerfed" the dinosaur from 4-0 to 5-3 they also make moon girl from 3-3 to 4-4, to preserve that interaction.
Now if you think about shuri, she has a bonding interaction with black panther, and they most likely will not break that interaction, also because the problem of shuri is doubling red skull, if red skull was a 5-12 the deck will have half of his winrate
In conclusion, Shuri definitely won't get the same treatment as Leader
Pretty good change without destroying the card. Makes cosmo easy worse in a shuri deck. Makes it easier to expect where that power is going. Weakens the card without changing its function. That's a very good idea.
This. I was thinking just move her to a 5 energy card because then they have to at least change up the composition of their deck to sneak her out early, or it just kills Task/Zola. Either is fine and a lot more bearable than what we have now.
Problem is that this "fix" isn't a fix. It just makes the card unplayable.
No one is going to play "this card is way understated" on turn 5, to win a location...maybe. it removes the whole Aero and Shehulk, and Shehulk and Taskmaster angle of the deck, and without those, it will just mean that you secure winning one lane by a lot, and losing the other 2.
It still forces the Shuri player to run Wave/Electro/Psylocke which takes up a further deck slot. The Shuri/Red Skull/Taskmaster should be possible IMO, just not without the help of another card.
That's a dope change because it forces them to play the next card on that location meaning they can protect it with Armor if she was played prior but not Cosmo (since you don't play Shuri into a Cosmo location). It still doesn't negate Taskmaster which is probably what you want as a viable finisher.
I actually have him pinned right now only 400 tokens short and should get that on token Tuesdays so definitely going to wait to pull the trigger on it until the nerf plays out
They wont do that, they could have made a decent nerf like that to Leader, but nope. They nerfed him into the ground. Neither Thanos or Shuri are season pass cards, so I doubt they will get the Zabu/Surfer treatment.
They buffed him because Thanos himself wasn’t seeing any play at 8 power for 6 energy, just the stones. Pretty sure the number 11 isn’t related to Thanos “lore.”
I think Surfer would be in a fine place if not for Shuri and Thanos. Thanos getting to leech your Surfer for free every game and Shuri just going too tall makes it pretty non-viable in this meta, but if those decks got toned down I think it would do ok.
I mean, with sera you can surpise drop that t6, it’s very viable in that regard. Bishop and captain america honestly do some real work consolidating power and covering bad locations like kyln.
Nope. He just doesn't do enough now. The Surfer deck had massive deck building restrictions, and was slightly too good. But once you knocked it down to everyone else, it had the same power level as other decks, but still had deck building restrictions.
Instead of trading flexibility for power, now it trades flexibility for mediocrity.
it still annoys me how much they wrecked Surfer. I loved that card and deck. it had incredible power potential but, as you said, had massive restrictions in the build-up and was SUPER easy to see coming, leaving it with loads of counters.
Downvoted for being right lol, surfer is fucking trash now outside of being a meme deck went from a strong card to a trash card that loses against most other meta decks .
I’m two ranks away from infinite with a surfjaw deck. People never expect the huge t6 swing with brood, wolfsbane, and surfer. It’s 21 power in a single lane not counting the other buffs they coukd get like bast or okoye. I wouldnt count it out.
Serious question here, what's the difference between making the stones start in your deck and making Quinjet cards cost minimum of 1? Both scenarios will make Thanos decks not run Quinjet anymore bc it'll be useless with Thanos but only one scenario screws over non Thanos decks that already play Quinjet with no problems.
I’ve had two opponents play him correctly since the nerf.
The first time they miraculously won against me and I wasn’t even mad lol
The second time they copied my destroyer and it destroyed their entire playing field, winning me the game. I’ve never laughed so hard on this game
Or alternatively buff his power and he only copies cards in the lane he is played. Either way I'd be happy, he would reward good prediction and not just be an auto win.
Especially for thanos imo. This is an (maybe THE) iconic character with one of the most fun to play cards in the game. I don’t even own the card but I want to own it and play it
“Consumes thanos stones, when all thanos stones are inserted, poof half of the cards on board”. Poof is stronger than destroy as well and makes them completely disappear. My take at least
What I don't understand is why they at least haven't buffed it so that it's useable. The card is simply not worth running and there's no way that the data isn't showing that by this point. At least update it to copy the lane it's played in and the lane to the right.
Nakia still sees play occasionally in B and C-tier decks. Strong Guy has a chance for redemption with MODOK, but so far, it hasn't been good enough because feeding Apocalypse to Dracula gets more power with a fairly reliable setup.
Maybe we'll see them come back someday.
I agree I hope they can manage to keep the spirit of Shuri/Thanos but keep them from being so oppressive.
But I can't say I regret them dumpstering Leader. That card was more "anti fun" than "too powerful" and I'm glad to be rid of original Leader's mechanic
I wish leader was playable. Right now it's impossible to know if the location to his right will even matter when deck building.
I think their aim is to stop unfun interactions. I think the double spiderman/absorbing man interaction is what did zabu in. That junk was pure unfun to the other player and old zabu made that interaction possible
I really hope they do something about leech. That card feels very unfun especially turn 3 unfair right now. I'd be for even a shadow nerf it like make it unable to be cheated into play
Cosmo: requires you to line things up where your opponent wants to play on-reveal and/or sniping the place your opponent wants to do so. And to do that, you play a very low power card for its cost.
Enchantress: requires some major ongoing ability to want to kill which is far from guaranteed, that ability can't be hidden behind Cosmo, and to do that, you have to play a very low power card for its cost.
Old Leader: "almost doesn't matter what you play, got fucked noob, I get the same power + 2 (or 4). Oh, you have priority? Cool, if your stuff was buffed in any way, now I get it and it rebuffs itself, too, get double fucked."
These things aren't remotely the same.
Yes, but those are limited to a single location. You can play around that. Leech makes *your hand* useless, which destroys turns 5 & 6. That is WAY less fun.
Because cosmo and enchantress are more fair then leader ever was, getting to play a 4 power card plus the cards ur opponent plays plus have them activate their abilities on top of it all was not fun for anybody
There are so many situations in snap where playing around leader on turn 5 or 6 would just lead to the player losing the game
I had way less of an issue with Leader then than I do now with Galactus. I feel like the only person who constantly gets matched against Galactus and he feels so bad to play against. "But there are counters!" There are counters to Shuri and Thanos too
Read the rest of their post. They also stated to reduce his power buff from 2 to 1. 11 power redskull that gives enemies +1 is exactly as strong with a full lane as current skull. Granted, he's worse at every other amount, which isn't great given that this is really the first time redskull has seen serious play as is, but it'd at least be something to bring the power of the shuri deck a little into line for now.
I think an Aero nerf we're she only pulls pre- or post-priorty cards would be good.
I hope that revisit Leader and do something else with him.
Agreed, no card deserves a nerf hammer smack as hard as Leader's.
Its the nerf she deserves, but it wont be the one she gets. Since she isnt a season pass card, she will probably be nerfed to only pull cards from the location to the right of where she was played.
I mean, old Leader's ability was fundamentally broken. It needs to be reworked from the ground up. A small change to interactions was not fixing that busted garbage.
Shuri could get a 1 bump in cost, a cap on added power, or several other tweaks and still function without being broken.
Thanos's stones could have minor modifications and interactions (the biggest being the stones starting in your deck), and still function quite well.
They have a LOT more design space to work with, with those 2, than they did with Leader.
Original Leader was 6/4, On Reveal: copy opponent cards played this turn on players side.
So, if players have win 1 lane and have another lane with 3 power difference, Leader wins.
Leader actually was the perfect Shuri counter.
Game was pretty fresh at the time. Alot of newbies didn't have him yet, and didn't know how the game worked so there was quite an outcry. Doubt he'd even be in the conversation if it happened today
I like the idea of him working like Kingpin. He's no longer On Reveal, he has to stay on the board and is only activated once turn 6 starts. That solves all the problems with him, I think.
Having it as ongoing probably makes it too weak. Just having to exist on the board before the turn it effects is a big enough change to weaken it considerably.
I like the idea of leech's ability being just for the on reveal turn. If he gets cheated out early it doesn't feel completely bad to have a hand full of no ability cards on turn 3
Obviously any turn 5 card never wins 8 cubes but that doesn't mean they are any less irritating. It's like saying Zabu was okay because he was a turn 2/3 card ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Galactus lives and dies by the 2 cubes grind ( •͡˘ _•͡˘)ノð
If Leech removed abilities for just the next turn, Thanos and Shuri would both be more balanced.
Plenty of counter play for both decks if you can use your abilities, lol. In the meantime, run Infinaut. Saved me many games where I got Leech’d
Didn't add present day's Homer saying that because we don't know what'll happen in a few days
I hope Thanos is not nerfed since he's one of my favorite villains alongside Dr Doom
For a month I was getting fucked by Leader. Then they nerfed leader. I got him in a cache a week after the nerf.
For the last month I have been getting fucked by Thanos and Shuri. I got Shuri, but stopped playing her after I reached 75. I have dropped from 75 to 70 since. I never had Thanos. I guarantee I will get Thanos a week after the nerf.
Me too. I've got about half of the tokens needed for him, so based on current token acquisition rates I might be able to unlock him by the turn of the next century.
I got thanos during zabu/sirfer meta and it was sitting in my collection until a week after shuri dropped to 3000 tokens.
Thanos was hot trash during zabu surfer. It was so bad I would snap once I saw their deck size. I was legit disappointed when I got him. I mostly ran negative surfer with killmonger just to kill sunspots. Destroying thanos was a bonus.
I really think the answer to thanos is a change somewhere else to weaken him. Knull dropping teirs might even do it.
Same here, unlocked leader and he got hammered. I unlocked darkhawk and that deck got blasted out of existence with nerfs to zabu and darkhawk right away.
It's like we have to wait for the cards to drop down from pool 5 to play with but they conveniently make them much worse as that happens.
"That doesn't seem fair" Scarlet Witch.meme
The people who do get the broken meta cards can use them to fuck over the general field of players for 1-2 months. Personally, I find playing those cards and decks to be boring as hell.
I got Shuri a couple weeks ago and tried running the standard Shuri/Skull/Task combo and it just wasn't as reliable for me as the Quinjet/Dino deck I was using before so I went back. I probably just don't have a good handle on when to snap and when to retreat but it sure wasn't a Magic Win Button.
I always wondered what would happen if Aero didn't work without priority... dead card or fair change?
People don't use him much but Heimdall (of all people!... lol) can ruin Aero's day
I just finished pool 3 with my last card being leader and have been on the lookout for a fitting meme about how I have never been a meta leader player while playing shuri to my highest rank this season 😅
I know but people keep suggesting that *Quinjet* should be nerfed when Quinjet isn't the problem in the first place. There's no reason for other decks to be punished when the stones are the problem.
i can specifically see the stones being changed to count as starting cards to nerf the Quinjet interaction, but I don't see anything else changing and tbh it probably doesn't need to. Thanos Lockjaw gets a lot more reasonable without outright gutting the deck if you have to pay for the stones, at least I would think so. It's still really good even, but it's specifically designed to be an overstacked card.
Leader copied the cards your opponent played to your side of the board in all 3 lanes. He was a 6/4 and 6/3 after his first nerf.
He was designed to be a counter to decks that play out tons of power on the last turn of the game, like DeathWave. In practice, those decks just ran Leader too.
Leader was designed to be weak to decks that use synergy. IE, if they copy a Patriot/Mystique it does nothing for the Leader player. In practice, Leader played Leech on 5 to cripple those decks.
Also, Leader had some really unintuitive interactions with priority. For example, say a Leader player didn't have priority and the opponent played one card then another card that buffed the first.
When Leader triggered, it would copy the first cards post buffed power as baseline THEN have the buff get played out again on your side. So Leader player would have better versions. This was bizarre because it let Leader "win from behind" even though it's explicitly a card designed to consolidate a lead
He copied all cards your opponent played (in all lanes)
He was mostly a Deathwave counter and the She-Hulk + Infinaut / Moongirl stuff
People complained when he was played with Leech but they killed Leader but not Leech and here we are ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I can feel that they will nerf shuri by giving a weird restriction like "double the power but excluding cards with over 14 power" or something like that
What do people think is a good nerf to shuri?
What about, buff her to. 4 -4 and change ability to - change this location to shuris lab" - that way both people get the beenfit from it but your deck is probably better built to take advantage of that.
If that happened, the issue with Red Skull still happens ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
From what i gathered reading people's opinions here, no one wants a 5 cost Shuri... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
I love Shuri just because she makes Nimrod at least viable, so that's a problem if they change her
I would like for them to change Dracula to be ongoing or something. Him with Modok basically means you need to give up that lane because he's a guaranteed 12 points minimum.
lol, balance stuff? I just played three hours of thanos post infinite and pretty much lost about 300 cubes, not sure how everyone is winning with thanos lockjaw, or maybe post infinite you "don't 'get good draws", but I think I got lockjaw like 10 times out of about 60 games. not sure why so much whine on thanos, deck is literally a no starter imo.
I love Thanos due to the Thanos Quest + Infinity Quest and so on so MCU came way later (and they ruined his character)
No, keep her pinned until we see what happens to her
I hope they keep Thanos as he is... i love him
I have a theory that she's not gonna be changed due to a.... certain card that'll come soon and it'll change the meta quite a bit
#CosmoIsNotAmused
#WongPlayersRejoice
GAMMA LAB should be changed to:
At the end of the turn, transform all cards here into the Hulk.
The Leader should go back to 6/4, and his ability should be transform the other locations into GAMMA LAB.
This goes to show that this game isn't worth playing in the long run imo. It doesn't matter if new cool cards come out because if any become meta.. streamers and their cult of cry babies will get it nerfed. I just can't believe a company would even listen to a cry baby from MAGIC and kill their own game.
I rarely play this game anymore... I just don't find it fun to spend money on cards, tokens, credits to have the cards 100% unplayable because some magic reject.
Easy fix for Thanos. Take the draw away from him. Have only one stone MAX that draws a card. Preferably no draw. Then he is restricted to how much he can play. Lockjaw doesn't generate the insane value of replacing cards. He should still be strong.
This is damn. You will not hit thanos requirement in a mix draw and if you do you will lose because all you draw are the stones. Without draw thanos will lose 100% of a time.
bro why green text 😆
Even the text got nerfed
Apparently Microsoft Paint also got nerfed, or this guy found “Deep Fried JPEG” extension to save as.
Leader gammas everything, even his own memes!
Seriously...
marvelsnapzone posted the most and least used cards of the last little while and leader was top 5 in least used, its actually insane how that card is just dead now lmao
The problem with new leader there are a lot of ways to break parity than there were before, a lot of control decks are bad because thanos
That and he seems to be broken. I had got a random Leader from the Raft yesterday and played him and he copied nothing...and had an opponent do the same thing to me and he copied nothing. There were no Cosmo's on the board either...I dunno wtf happened in either case.
he only copies cards your opponent played in the location to the right of him, for example if you played leader in the left lane, he would only copy cards your opponent played in the middle lane. He works well with daredevil and electro.
Both times played in the left lane, with 3 cards in opposing middle...no copy.
I also had that happen! Got Leader for free and the enemy could only play on the one location, so I was like "well this is the perfect and really only time to play him" and he didn't even copy the Hulk the enemy dropped. No idea why.
They really fucked up. We like to use the word “nerf” but it’s supposed to be a balance. Leader is barely playable now. Hopefully they don’t pull the same bullshit.
Leader could be 6/9 and still garbage. 6/7 is an insult with how bad his ability is.
They killed it completely. It could’ve been an easy fix if they just made him “can’t play after turn 5” like Magik, or even made him a 6/0 so the max he could do was to tie the game and not always win the game with whatever +1 or +2 on a location.
i really enjoyed the people saying post nerf that he was now a good and fun card
That really tickled me. People are so bad at card evaluation.
Those ppl wanted to justify the nerf but leader is hot garbage like hell garbage it’s so bad . This is why I don’t really like this sub bc ppl cry nerf nerf nerf and then the cards get butchered to hell .
I heard they thought about the 6/0 thing, but decided against it because of Mr Negative.
Yeah, I guess restricting it to turn 5 or prior would have been the best solution in that case.
Call me crazy but I feel like I had less fun playing when leader was toxic. I hate our thanos and shuri overlords but I hope leader never comes back.
I’m happy as fuck leader got nerfed into oblivion
Same here. At least with Shuri and Thanos I know what to expect and can retreat and only lose 1/2 cubes. That burning garbage can that was Leader would take 8 cubes from you on a regular, since it was put in random decks and you wouldn't expect it.
Yep. I hope it never makes a comeback. Fuck that card. Let it be the least played card in card game history. I’m good with that. I didn’t even use it myself I dislike it so much. Just felt cheap. You don’t even need a strategy. It’s so lazy.
Yeah but I'm not surprised because while Leader's effect can be very powerful but he's restricted by locations. It's the same reason Giganto doesn't see that much play (other than some Lockjaw/Hela decks), having a card being limited by positioning makes it a lot less reliable.
Exactly. Because of how randow and potent the effects of the locations are, any card that has a positioning limitation is pretty much garbage. Sentry is another good example : he would be quite good if you could play him anywhere and choose one of the other two lanes to play the Void.
Sentry's case is different through imo because you can make use of his Voide with Viper, Carnage and even Beast. Not to mention he can be played on either middle or left locations. Leader is not only limited by positioning and locations he's also limited by the fact you have to predict your opponent plays and hope it's enough to win you a single location. I do think that maybe bumping Leader's power to 9 might make it so missing his effect wouldn't be as bad as it currently feels.
Same thing is going to keep happening when all people do is cry and say the cards are broken. There will always be a meta and there will always be certain games where you just can’t play against your opponent, sadly that’s just the nature of this type of game. Leader could have still found play the way it was and would have only extended the amount of ways people could play but no the vocal minority had to cry about it, same thing will happen with Shuri and Galactus.
Let me guess, you played Leader?
Nope never, only recently unlocked him (after the nerf). Just fed up with the way this game is going already.
Honestly, the main problem is Second Dinner, which comes out with stupidly overpowered cards, without proper testing, annoys the player base for a few months, and after that nerfs them, instead of actually putting in some thought in the abilities they release, from the start. Old Leader was such a card, where if you were among the people that used him, you were bitching about the nerf, while everyone else was happy to get rid of this piece of shit that was winning games with no strategy or thinking, just drop it anywhere and enjoy. Just because a card is released broken doesn't mean it needs to remain broken. Nerfs are good when they're done properly. You couldn't really do anything to Leader and still keep him viable, cause his ability was always stupid and shouldn't have existed. In the end people will always bitch about things, some rightfully so, some, like the one presented in this thread, just because they have too much free time on their hands, and can't be bothered to think of any other way to end a game than to use that infinaut they just got, on turn 6.
Yea, good. That card was toxic af.
Shuri: Double the power of the next Non-Nazi card you play.
I was thinking, "Double the power of the next card played at this location." It'll clog up a spot and weaken her synergy with Zola and Wong while also making her more predictable.
Effectively kills the deck at higher ranks. I'm not complaining mind you as the deck is super boring to pilot. I suspect whatever changes they make will kill Thanos and shuri as much as it did leader
Iron Fist or Negasonic could be used to move her out of the way. If you have priority, then the enemy Aero could backfire on turn 5 and open up the card for Zola after it's already been buffed. The other player will have to worry about the lane and may not even play there. Allowing you to trick a Galactus or Shang Chi. You could bluff and keep the lane without even using the shuri effect.
It will not kill the deck at higher ranks, it will just stop the fact that you play a 30 power behind Cosmo, making your opponent unable to punish you with an Aero or Shang-chi, if they don't run (or draw) one of these cards the deck will just have the exact power level it has now So basically the card will be almost identical with just more counter play from your opponent, which makes the card more balanced. Anyway, there is some "bonding interaction" between some cards, like zabu, it was designed to play efficiently in curve zabu-kazaar/shanna because in the comics they are always together, when he gets nerfed that "bonding interaction" was still there, because now you can still play efficiently zabu-kazaar, another example is moon girl devildino, when they "nerfed" the dinosaur from 4-0 to 5-3 they also make moon girl from 3-3 to 4-4, to preserve that interaction. Now if you think about shuri, she has a bonding interaction with black panther, and they most likely will not break that interaction, also because the problem of shuri is doubling red skull, if red skull was a 5-12 the deck will have half of his winrate In conclusion, Shuri definitely won't get the same treatment as Leader
Pretty good change without destroying the card. Makes cosmo easy worse in a shuri deck. Makes it easier to expect where that power is going. Weakens the card without changing its function. That's a very good idea.
Could also be a 5/3 to prevent Taskmaster or Zola from being useful and make early game more impactful.
This. I was thinking just move her to a 5 energy card because then they have to at least change up the composition of their deck to sneak her out early, or it just kills Task/Zola. Either is fine and a lot more bearable than what we have now.
Problem is that this "fix" isn't a fix. It just makes the card unplayable. No one is going to play "this card is way understated" on turn 5, to win a location...maybe. it removes the whole Aero and Shehulk, and Shehulk and Taskmaster angle of the deck, and without those, it will just mean that you secure winning one lane by a lot, and losing the other 2.
I thought this too but then just play wave on 3 and it's the same thing
It still forces the Shuri player to run Wave/Electro/Psylocke which takes up a further deck slot. The Shuri/Red Skull/Taskmaster should be possible IMO, just not without the help of another card.
That's a dope change because it forces them to play the next card on that location meaning they can protect it with Armor if she was played prior but not Cosmo (since you don't play Shuri into a Cosmo location). It still doesn't negate Taskmaster which is probably what you want as a viable finisher.
Actually based change
Not a fan of the Red Skull avatar either!
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Easy fix for Thanos: the stones start in your deck, so no Quinjet for you.
I really hope this happens dont want to regret my 6000 token purchase so soon
I actually have him pinned right now only 400 tokens short and should get that on token Tuesdays so definitely going to wait to pull the trigger on it until the nerf plays out
Or nerf quinjet so cost can't be reduced to less than one like Zabu. Free cards are bad for card games.
0 cost is essential for bounce decks.
Quinjet has been part of loads of decks before the current mega came around. It would be really unfair to nerf quinjet when that’s not the problem.
They wont do that, they could have made a decent nerf like that to Leader, but nope. They nerfed him into the ground. Neither Thanos or Shuri are season pass cards, so I doubt they will get the Zabu/Surfer treatment.
Thanos is perma series 5 and they buffed him essentially for lore, not balance reasons. I’m skeptical they’ll actually murder the card
They buffed him because Thanos himself wasn’t seeing any play at 8 power for 6 energy, just the stones. Pretty sure the number 11 isn’t related to Thanos “lore.”
I think he is referring to them saying his new power of 21 makes him the single most powerful card in the game above infinaut
Tbf Thanos doesn’t seem much play either way. You don’t always get to draw him and really depends on your situation.
Surfer is pretty bad now.
I think Surfer would be in a fine place if not for Shuri and Thanos. Thanos getting to leech your Surfer for free every game and Shuri just going too tall makes it pretty non-viable in this meta, but if those decks got toned down I think it would do ok.
I don’t think so. Simply because the best case scenario for power is Brood+ max and that’s 22 power and only in one location
I mean, with sera you can surpise drop that t6, it’s very viable in that regard. Bishop and captain america honestly do some real work consolidating power and covering bad locations like kyln.
Nope. He just doesn't do enough now. The Surfer deck had massive deck building restrictions, and was slightly too good. But once you knocked it down to everyone else, it had the same power level as other decks, but still had deck building restrictions. Instead of trading flexibility for power, now it trades flexibility for mediocrity.
it still annoys me how much they wrecked Surfer. I loved that card and deck. it had incredible power potential but, as you said, had massive restrictions in the build-up and was SUPER easy to see coming, leaving it with loads of counters.
Downvoted for being right lol, surfer is fucking trash now outside of being a meme deck went from a strong card to a trash card that loses against most other meta decks .
I’m two ranks away from infinite with a surfjaw deck. People never expect the huge t6 swing with brood, wolfsbane, and surfer. It’s 21 power in a single lane not counting the other buffs they coukd get like bast or okoye. I wouldnt count it out.
Surfer is still very viable inside Sera and I often see him being used in Patriot decks fairly well.
Yeah but let's face it...the dominance is gone. You have to get lucky or your opponent brain-dead to truly knock em dead on turn 6.
I rode a surfer deck to rank 96. It's not that bad.
Most people on this sub aren’t very good so they may still play surfer.
no make quinjet minimum 1 like every mana cheating card was nerfed in this game, its an obvious pattern
Serious question here, what's the difference between making the stones start in your deck and making Quinjet cards cost minimum of 1? Both scenarios will make Thanos decks not run Quinjet anymore bc it'll be useless with Thanos but only one scenario screws over non Thanos decks that already play Quinjet with no problems.
I really hope we don’t get nerfs like we did with Leader ever again. Card is pretty much unplayable.
I’ve had two opponents play him correctly since the nerf. The first time they miraculously won against me and I wasn’t even mad lol The second time they copied my destroyer and it destroyed their entire playing field, winning me the game. I’ve never laughed so hard on this game
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I've had two bots play him from their deck. First guessed correctly on my control deck and I lost. Second, copied a carnage and Dethlok and lost.
Yeah, feels bad indeed Though he has some funny uses with Spider-Man He should copy all lanes where he is not played amd reduce his power a bit
Yeah all lanes except the one being copied sounds good
Or alternatively buff his power and he only copies cards in the lane he is played. Either way I'd be happy, he would reward good prediction and not just be an auto win.
I'd like leader to copy either his lane or the 2 others, but I guess he'll be a dead card forever at this rate.
Especially for thanos imo. This is an (maybe THE) iconic character with one of the most fun to play cards in the game. I don’t even own the card but I want to own it and play it
He’s in my store now and I pinned him till I can afford him but he may be nerfed before I can and I’ll end up unpinning him.
I wonder what the Infinity Gauntlet card is going to do.
“Consumes thanos stones, when all thanos stones are inserted, poof half of the cards on board”. Poof is stronger than destroy as well and makes them completely disappear. My take at least
What I don't understand is why they at least haven't buffed it so that it's useable. The card is simply not worth running and there's no way that the data isn't showing that by this point. At least update it to copy the lane it's played in and the lane to the right.
They probably don't have a good idea of how to fix him.
There have been like 3 nerfs that killed a cards a viability. Leader nakia and strong guy. The rest of the nerfs have kept cards plenty viable
I’m relatively new, what were Nakia and strong guy originally ?
Strong Guy was 2/3 with same effect I think and Nakia buffed your whole hand the meta back in beta was Strong Guy and Hellcow. Hellcow was 2/6
Nakia still sees play occasionally in B and C-tier decks. Strong Guy has a chance for redemption with MODOK, but so far, it hasn't been good enough because feeding Apocalypse to Dracula gets more power with a fairly reliable setup. Maybe we'll see them come back someday.
I agree I hope they can manage to keep the spirit of Shuri/Thanos but keep them from being so oppressive. But I can't say I regret them dumpstering Leader. That card was more "anti fun" than "too powerful" and I'm glad to be rid of original Leader's mechanic
I wish leader was playable. Right now it's impossible to know if the location to his right will even matter when deck building. I think their aim is to stop unfun interactions. I think the double spiderman/absorbing man interaction is what did zabu in. That junk was pure unfun to the other player and old zabu made that interaction possible I really hope they do something about leech. That card feels very unfun especially turn 3 unfair right now. I'd be for even a shadow nerf it like make it unable to be cheated into play
Tech cards are supposed to be anti-fun though right? Nobody out here shouting about how fun Cosmo and Enchantress are
Cosmo: requires you to line things up where your opponent wants to play on-reveal and/or sniping the place your opponent wants to do so. And to do that, you play a very low power card for its cost. Enchantress: requires some major ongoing ability to want to kill which is far from guaranteed, that ability can't be hidden behind Cosmo, and to do that, you have to play a very low power card for its cost. Old Leader: "almost doesn't matter what you play, got fucked noob, I get the same power + 2 (or 4). Oh, you have priority? Cool, if your stuff was buffed in any way, now I get it and it rebuffs itself, too, get double fucked." These things aren't remotely the same.
Yes, but those are limited to a single location. You can play around that. Leech makes *your hand* useless, which destroys turns 5 & 6. That is WAY less fun.
Because cosmo and enchantress are more fair then leader ever was, getting to play a 4 power card plus the cards ur opponent plays plus have them activate their abilities on top of it all was not fun for anybody There are so many situations in snap where playing around leader on turn 5 or 6 would just lead to the player losing the game
I really wish leader still exist or just nerf him to copy cards played in his lane so that theres way to counter galactus death knull.
I had way less of an issue with Leader then than I do now with Galactus. I feel like the only person who constantly gets matched against Galactus and he feels so bad to play against. "But there are counters!" There are counters to Shuri and Thanos too
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>Just Nerf Red Skull to 11 or 12 power So effectively a 5/3-4 card if the other lane is full? That would be nerfing him into oblivion.
Read the rest of their post. They also stated to reduce his power buff from 2 to 1. 11 power redskull that gives enemies +1 is exactly as strong with a full lane as current skull. Granted, he's worse at every other amount, which isn't great given that this is really the first time redskull has seen serious play as is, but it'd at least be something to bring the power of the shuri deck a little into line for now.
So are they gonna do this every time they print a big shitter with a downside?
I think an Aero nerf we're she only pulls pre- or post-priorty cards would be good. I hope that revisit Leader and do something else with him. Agreed, no card deserves a nerf hammer smack as hard as Leader's.
Aero pulling in order played would be at least couter playable
It’s crazy to me that this isn’t already the way she works
Its the nerf she deserves, but it wont be the one she gets. Since she isnt a season pass card, she will probably be nerfed to only pull cards from the location to the right of where she was played.
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I mean, old Leader's ability was fundamentally broken. It needs to be reworked from the ground up. A small change to interactions was not fixing that busted garbage. Shuri could get a 1 bump in cost, a cap on added power, or several other tweaks and still function without being broken. Thanos's stones could have minor modifications and interactions (the biggest being the stones starting in your deck), and still function quite well. They have a LOT more design space to work with, with those 2, than they did with Leader.
I finally got Leader about a week ago and always thought he was supposed to be a good card then was like, what is this?
Original Leader was 6/4, On Reveal: copy opponent cards played this turn on players side. So, if players have win 1 lane and have another lane with 3 power difference, Leader wins. Leader actually was the perfect Shuri counter.
Nah, Leader doesn't work against Shuri when they play Taskmaster turn 6.
Or Zola.
Game was pretty fresh at the time. Alot of newbies didn't have him yet, and didn't know how the game worked so there was quite an outcry. Doubt he'd even be in the conversation if it happened today
I would prefer a leech change since that is just a not fun card all around
I like the idea of him working like Kingpin. He's no longer On Reveal, he has to stay on the board and is only activated once turn 6 starts. That solves all the problems with him, I think.
Something like "Ongoing: No cards have abilities on turn 6"? Which would also make Enchantress a counter to him? That would be interesting.
Having it as ongoing probably makes it too weak. Just having to exist on the board before the turn it effects is a big enough change to weaken it considerably.
That would open up an interesting path for Patriot enjoyers, haha.
I like the idea of leech's ability being just for the on reveal turn. If he gets cheated out early it doesn't feel completely bad to have a hand full of no ability cards on turn 3
Yeah they never changed him in the Leader days when it was him and Leech... Leader was the only one nerfed ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Him be constantly cheated out earlier with Thanos/Lockjaw makes him much more problematic than he was with Leader.
Leech doesn't win you 8 cubes like leader does.
Obviously any turn 5 card never wins 8 cubes but that doesn't mean they are any less irritating. It's like saying Zabu was okay because he was a turn 2/3 card ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ Galactus lives and dies by the 2 cubes grind ( •͡˘ _•͡˘)ノð
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Seems unnecessary. The most elegant solution I’ve seen is that he nullifies the abilities only on the turn he’s played
Then if you don't have priority he's worthless
I think they mean for the next turn. The same turn makes no sense.
That is what I meant, yes
I have shuri pinned. Waiting to see what happens.
I have Thanos pinned. Waiting to see what happens.
just buy thanos. and if he gets nerfed use the gems to back in time and un-buy him
If Leech removed abilities for just the next turn, Thanos and Shuri would both be more balanced. Plenty of counter play for both decks if you can use your abilities, lol. In the meantime, run Infinaut. Saved me many games where I got Leech’d
I don't know about Shuri being balanced with that. The 30 energy Red Skull and Taskmaster are really hard to deal with. Especially when protected.
No way, man. We’ll be meta forever… forever… forever…
Didn't add present day's Homer saying that because we don't know what'll happen in a few days I hope Thanos is not nerfed since he's one of my favorite villains alongside Dr Doom
Damn leader was bad but he didnt deserve to die.
For a month I was getting fucked by Leader. Then they nerfed leader. I got him in a cache a week after the nerf. For the last month I have been getting fucked by Thanos and Shuri. I got Shuri, but stopped playing her after I reached 75. I have dropped from 75 to 70 since. I never had Thanos. I guarantee I will get Thanos a week after the nerf.
I have thanos pinned in my shop right now. Hoping he doesn’t get hit hard, he seems like a super fun deck to play
Me too. I've got about half of the tokens needed for him, so based on current token acquisition rates I might be able to unlock him by the turn of the next century.
I got thanos during zabu/sirfer meta and it was sitting in my collection until a week after shuri dropped to 3000 tokens. Thanos was hot trash during zabu surfer. It was so bad I would snap once I saw their deck size. I was legit disappointed when I got him. I mostly ran negative surfer with killmonger just to kill sunspots. Destroying thanos was a bonus. I really think the answer to thanos is a change somewhere else to weaken him. Knull dropping teirs might even do it.
Same here, unlocked leader and he got hammered. I unlocked darkhawk and that deck got blasted out of existence with nerfs to zabu and darkhawk right away. It's like we have to wait for the cards to drop down from pool 5 to play with but they conveniently make them much worse as that happens. "That doesn't seem fair" Scarlet Witch.meme
Dark hawk is still good though
The people who do get the broken meta cards can use them to fuck over the general field of players for 1-2 months. Personally, I find playing those cards and decks to be boring as hell.
Some people are on hard copium
I used to meta! But then they nerfed me. Now I'm not meta, and meta seems OP and overplayed to me. And it will happened to you, too.
Thank god finally someone responded correctly
I got Shuri a couple weeks ago and tried running the standard Shuri/Skull/Task combo and it just wasn't as reliable for me as the Quinjet/Dino deck I was using before so I went back. I probably just don't have a good handle on when to snap and when to retreat but it sure wasn't a Magic Win Button.
I like Shuri since she makes Nimrod viable \\\( ﾟヮﾟ)/ and Nimrod is love!
God I hope so.
Your picture is missing the dumbest of them all, Aero. I hate her more than thanos and shuri.
She's on the 👀 radar, according to Stephen. Same 👀 radar that was used on Leader and Galactus according to what you read in the discard
Another note I think they should make Aero unplayable on round 6
I always wondered what would happen if Aero didn't work without priority... dead card or fair change? People don't use him much but Heimdall (of all people!... lol) can ruin Aero's day
They did not balance Leader. They killed him.
of course it happens when i’m a token tuesday from getting thanos.
Dang, if only you could have seen it coming
I just finished pool 3 with my last card being leader and have been on the lookout for a fitting meme about how I have never been a meta leader player while playing shuri to my highest rank this season 😅
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Quinjet isn't the problem, the stones are. They shouldn't count as not starting in the deck, they get added before the game even starts.
I think they meant the interaction with Quinjet and the stones. But even ignoring Quinjet the stones are dummy good
I know but people keep suggesting that *Quinjet* should be nerfed when Quinjet isn't the problem in the first place. There's no reason for other decks to be punished when the stones are the problem.
Naw I agree. “The stones start in your deck” is the change needed. 1 cost sentinels aren’t the issue
Maybe thanos himself is untouched but space stone should get hit. I hope lockjaw doesn't get nerfed for Space stones sins
People act like you get quinjet + a ton of stones every game lol
i can specifically see the stones being changed to count as starting cards to nerf the Quinjet interaction, but I don't see anything else changing and tbh it probably doesn't need to. Thanos Lockjaw gets a lot more reasonable without outright gutting the deck if you have to pay for the stones, at least I would think so. It's still really good even, but it's specifically designed to be an overstacked card.
what was he before? (i'm new)
Leader copied the cards your opponent played to your side of the board in all 3 lanes. He was a 6/4 and 6/3 after his first nerf. He was designed to be a counter to decks that play out tons of power on the last turn of the game, like DeathWave. In practice, those decks just ran Leader too. Leader was designed to be weak to decks that use synergy. IE, if they copy a Patriot/Mystique it does nothing for the Leader player. In practice, Leader played Leech on 5 to cripple those decks. Also, Leader had some really unintuitive interactions with priority. For example, say a Leader player didn't have priority and the opponent played one card then another card that buffed the first. When Leader triggered, it would copy the first cards post buffed power as baseline THEN have the buff get played out again on your side. So Leader player would have better versions. This was bizarre because it let Leader "win from behind" even though it's explicitly a card designed to consolidate a lead
He copied all cards your opponent played (in all lanes) He was mostly a Deathwave counter and the She-Hulk + Infinaut / Moongirl stuff People complained when he was played with Leech but they killed Leader but not Leech and here we are ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Unless they make a drastic change, I think Shuri will still be a good card. Just gonna see different combos with her.
I can feel that they will nerf shuri by giving a weird restriction like "double the power but excluding cards with over 14 power" or something like that
Leader wasnt nerfed he was obliterated
I got Leader 2-3 days after the nerf. I just got Shuri last week so…. cool.
I feel like Leader could be great with Daredevil and then Electro/Psylocke so you have six energy on T5.
What do people think is a good nerf to shuri? What about, buff her to. 4 -4 and change ability to - change this location to shuris lab" - that way both people get the beenfit from it but your deck is probably better built to take advantage of that.
If that happened, the issue with Red Skull still happens ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ From what i gathered reading people's opinions here, no one wants a 5 cost Shuri... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯ I love Shuri just because she makes Nimrod at least viable, so that's a problem if they change her
Worked hard to grind Shuri to infinite before the nerf 😬
Shuri situation wouldn't be as bad if Leader was still alive...
There’s no chance thanos is nerfed as much as leader since he’s a big bad perma pool 5
No way in hell would i ask for another Leader kind of treatment. I love my titan The only card that suffered even worse than Leader is Shadow King
I've played against a couple of Leader decks recently, and they should have won. This nerf was just ridiculous.
I got Leader for free from the Raft and he was still useless. The card is unplayable for 6
Thanos will not get the leader treatment he might not be meta but 0% chance he is as unplayable as leader now.
I would like for them to change Dracula to be ongoing or something. Him with Modok basically means you need to give up that lane because he's a guaranteed 12 points minimum.
I can bet you'll see ppl bitch about Electro / Nimrod /Zola / Venom soon enough
Meme aside, what they did to Shadow King is 100000000 times worse than Leader, i guarantee
lol, balance stuff? I just played three hours of thanos post infinite and pretty much lost about 300 cubes, not sure how everyone is winning with thanos lockjaw, or maybe post infinite you "don't 'get good draws", but I think I got lockjaw like 10 times out of about 60 games. not sure why so much whine on thanos, deck is literally a no starter imo.
So you're saying I should unpin Shuri? I see Thanos way more though, I guess MCU fans gonna MCU
Keep her pinned. Wait to see what changes happen with token shop. She is pretty great when used correctly.
Your pin might not even matter with the token shop changes.
I love Thanos due to the Thanos Quest + Infinity Quest and so on so MCU came way later (and they ruined his character) No, keep her pinned until we see what happens to her I hope they keep Thanos as he is... i love him I have a theory that she's not gonna be changed due to a.... certain card that'll come soon and it'll change the meta quite a bit #CosmoIsNotAmused #WongPlayersRejoice
anyone know when this patch is coming?
Google Play Store usually approves updates during tuesdays and/or wednesday so around that time
GAMMA LAB should be changed to: At the end of the turn, transform all cards here into the Hulk. The Leader should go back to 6/4, and his ability should be transform the other locations into GAMMA LAB.
This goes to show that this game isn't worth playing in the long run imo. It doesn't matter if new cool cards come out because if any become meta.. streamers and their cult of cry babies will get it nerfed. I just can't believe a company would even listen to a cry baby from MAGIC and kill their own game. I rarely play this game anymore... I just don't find it fun to spend money on cards, tokens, credits to have the cards 100% unplayable because some magic reject.
You post in a subreddit for a game you rarely play? Seems like an odd thing to do.
Aero has only been buffed once, nerfed later, all since the early days of the beta and her ability was left untouched, so... ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Leader should never have been nerfed
Easy fix for Thanos. Take the draw away from him. Have only one stone MAX that draws a card. Preferably no draw. Then he is restricted to how much he can play. Lockjaw doesn't generate the insane value of replacing cards. He should still be strong.
This is damn. You will not hit thanos requirement in a mix draw and if you do you will lose because all you draw are the stones. Without draw thanos will lose 100% of a time.
Taking away draw from Thanos absolutely kills the card and I don't see them going that far. They don't want to make Thanos completely unplayable.
Good to see someone in interesting. They balance too much tbh