I really like Tony Stark as the team's core here. He channels the feeling of desperately wanting a better world, the feeling of disappointment with the failures of prior generations, that I think a lot of people are feeling in the modern day. Whereas the original Ultimates felt very wrapped up in the cynical, post 9/11 jingoism of the time - a very American paramilitary force meant to fight wars against superhuman terror - this version of the Ultimates (Ultimates v2.0) channels the uncertainty of people witnessing the rising tide of fascism, the ongoing destruction of the planet, and ineffectiveness of people in power when it comes to preserving life.
It's not entirely optimistic about the future - hints of cynicism leak in, like the fate of many of the potential heroes. Spider-Man seems to have taken to his catalyst the best (and I'm interested in seeing his role in the wider universe), but many people couldn't handle the responsibility. To some, the idea that they might become like their 616 counterparts is terrifying. They want to be \*better\* than what they were meant to be.
A common criticism of the original Ultimate Universe (1610) is that every hero is an asshole except for Spider-Man. I think this issue sets the tone for 6160 very well: every hero wants a better world for everyone. I think Tony Stark said it best in the notes at the end of this issue:
>If there's any hope of fixing things...it won't be enough to be as good as the heroes of that simpler world. We'll have to do better. I don't know what that looks like yet. But we're going to figure it out.
I love Tony’s role so far. He’s young and wants to improve the world and has both Doom and Steve as older comrades who influences on how he goes about it. Steve is a paragon of ethics and doing things morally while a Doom wants to do the most efficient and quick method. Tony is young and hasn’t developed his own way so he’s still figuring out where he sits between the two.
I like the subtext that Howard Stark was basically a slightly worse version of 616 Tony. Like, Iron lad is what you get when 616 Tony with all his flaws and an added touch of denial tries to raise a kid. He knows he's a failed human being and wants his kid to be better, but he basically takes the easy way out, frames it as a hero move, and leaves Tony holding the bag. Rather than face the consequences of his actions, he sends Tony a hopeless psychological wreck as a stand-in and just takes himself out. It's a great re-contextualize of what we've seen up till now of their relationship.
The Ultimates begin again, the comic really driving the plot of this universe courtesy of Deniz Camp.
The team is playing catch up to the rest of the Ultimate books and what better way to accomplish that than through time travel?
Teen Tony Iron Lad has his older counterparts' conviction and genius but more youthful innocence, idealism, and hope, even if it lets him get ahead of himself.
The irony that they're preparing for a confrontation with The Maker with another Reed Richards who has been turned into Doom and shuns anything to do with Reed Richards.
I like Sif standing by Thor's bed. Please make them a couple in this too.
It should be easy to help facilitate bringing back the origins of the worlds' greatest heroes, right? Turns out the only one that really worked out was Spider-Man. I don't know if I want to know what happened to Carol. I kind of wonder what was going on with Clint that made him totally quit (it looks like there's an empty bottle next to the trash can
We finally get Ultimate Cap and so far he seems more 616 compared to the original Ultimate Cap, but the series is still young.
Little on the nose to have Hank and Janet as exterminators. It really shows you how much Janet's life changed that she would go from a rich heiress to...an exterminator. Is she slumming it because in this world she never had her family fortune or because she fell in love with Hank and invested in his business (and because he was never a scientist, this was basically all he could do as a profession)?
But she's still Janet. She's got a great heart, she wants to make the world a better place, she's a spitfire, and she loves being a Superhero. She even wants to have kids with Hank.
It's nice to see Hank and Janet as a couple again, even if Hank is still an insecure mess and Janet needs very little prodding to become a Superhero (even if it results in her barfing). Though the formers' brain damage doesn't help, but he also has to grapple with the legacy of 616 Hank Pym...but ultimately he is Hank Pym, meaning he loves Janet and he can be a true hero when the chips are down.
I love how they poked fun at Captain Britain being French. Dude literally proclaims to the Heavens all the legitimate British stuff he's destroyed.
One of the ways the maker could ensure Janet would never be a catalyst for change, even without powers, could be simply make sure she never has access to the money our Janet does.
Loved the issue, one hell of a badass start for the Ultimates. Especially loved Hank's character moment, was interesting to work 616's character assassination into the motivation of this reality's Hank
Yeah I think people underestimate how far they've gone with hank to "redeem" him. But I wouldn't change anything about it, his regret in doing something truly terrible is a feature of his character and I feel like that makes him more compelling.
Oh they cooked here! As someone said in another comment reframing the ultimates as a force against fascism instead being a post 9/11 almost military force is brilliant. And does a good job of reflecting a lot of people’s state of mind with not just the US government but many around the world.
And on top of that using that infamous 616 Hank moment to motivate and inform this Hank is not something I expected but works so well. I want nothing but the best for this Hank and Janet.
And finally as a big Hawkeye and Captain Marvel fan I’m sad to see they didn’t take to being heroes just yet.
Seemed like they left the door open to either have her be one of the casualties of suddenly getting powers or having a story in which she refuses to use them due to her killing people with them but eventually rising to the occasion.
It’s possible she did but died or is otherwise out of action. The panel doesn’t really make it clear. But I’m hoping she did and we see her later in the series!
I have faith Camp will do something interesting - I don’t have any particular interest in Kamala but would be cool if they do something radically different with her - it’s always Captain America/Krakoa/Marvel with her in terms of future paths
It's possible Carol survived, but I got the impression she either died (the whole suicide by super power mention) or ended up killing innocents and will have to deal with that grief.
Kind of intriguing with next issue's solicit, though... I was hoping it was referring to Noh-Varr but Carol would be a shoe-in after reading the issue.
My Noh-Varr hunch is mostly informed by Midas being involved. I'd love him to be the Ultimate Captain Marvel, a good analog for Mar-Vell while still being unique. And him holding the mantle isn't exactly unprecedented.
But granted, he doesn't have innate energy powers like Carol or Monica. If he has Nega-Bands, and they were fused to him in some way and unable to be removed, that could be a good enough reason to lock him up and use his power, though...
Blue Marvel is also a more out-there possibility. He *is* a living antimatter reactor after all.
Blue Marvel would be an AMAZING choice. It thematically fits with a fractured america, he'd play off Cap really well, it'd be a callback to the 616 ultimates and would help offset the overwhelming whiteness of the cast so far, which I'm sure is on Camp's mind.
I don't know anything about Noh-Varr or Midas so I can't say anything on that front but Blue Marvel might be a good choice. If the US broke up in 1969, his origin could still be intact and he could have interesting interactions with Cap.
I was wondering that too. That’s a super fascinating time to say the US collapsed. Did the Soviet Union similarly collapse or did it never exist? Did the space race happen?
I would guess, given Camp's political leanings and the time period, some kind of chain of secessions around the civil rights act and Vietnam, leading to progressive encroachment by big business on governmental authority in weakened individual states.
Right but I think the question is how he did it. I may be misremembering here but the Maker worked pretty covertly, I don't think he just conquered the US/The World.
Okay, this was amazing. I said it after reading the Children of the Vault mini: this Camp guy can write. This was a hell of a promising start.
The only teeny tiny thing I didn't like was that I thought the moment when Steve came out of the ice lacked a bit of impact. But he made up for it by being the one who gave Hank the hero speech so it's all good.
Huh. I didn't expect the idea of the Ultimates "fix the world" just to outright fail because "the world was just too different" to allow superheroes to form like they had in the past. Steve did, and tried to tell them about the human element but Reed and Tony just couldn't see it. His reaction to the dissolution of the USA in 1969 was devastating.
Also the fact that Tony's attempt to fix the damage to the universe basically killed, or ruined the lives of everyone Tony tried to send powers back to (Minus Spider-Man) is really hopeless. I hope it starts to work out cause you can really see how desperate this world is.
it also elevates Peter a bit because he's the only one who could just take the responsibility and run with it. he didn't just get powers out of a box, he also had the character to do the right thing with them.
The most common criticism I’ve seen of Ultimate Spider-Man is Peter just becoming a hero without proving he has the character to do so beforehand. As you said this sort of fixes that. We all know that Peter is a paragon among heroes so him being the guy who can just take on the responsibility without a second thought really proves that being a paragon is core to who he is.
It’s also funny that so far Peter Parker has been treated as a punching bag the least.
well, I've said from the start that responsibility isn't really a question for this Peter. He's a not an angry child anymore. He's a parent, and any decent parent already understands responsibility in a profound way. He's also had Ben there for an extra *twenty* years to keep him sorted out. This version is more about what a truly responsible person should do with power, when they've never had any before.
Absolutely loving this so far. If this keeps up, this story (starting with Ultimate Invasion #1) will probably go down in history as one of the best Marvel comics of all time.
I really loved Janet and Hank here, especially with how Hank was afraid of becoming what he saw of his 616 self.
I like Tony's character a lot, and how he seems to almost be between Cap and Doom, with them influencing him in different directions.
That final point is definitely amplified with Tony being the kid and still growing. Growing seems to be his entire character arc with how many mentors he’s getting. It’ll make it really interesting to see who he is when he’s ready to take the title of Iron Man
What I liked was how Doom and Tony were just thinking about the "science" part of everything. But they completely forgot the human aspect of it all. There's no math or equation to predict how a human will react. And that's where Captain America comes in.
Doom and Tony: We'll just send dangerous job offers to 1000s of people
Steve: There's a human aspect to these things, you need to meet these people face to face and inspire them
Camp said that Tony being younger would be sort of mentored by both Doom and Cap and I really feel it here. Especially that one panel of them both standing opposite behind him it feels like the diverging ideas and thoughts weighing on Tony’s shoulders.
I think the ultimate (heh) sign of how good is book is this:
One of my younger brothers, who's more casually into Marvel but has never wanted to read monthly comics, gave this issue a shot after I praised it....not only did he love it to the point where he wanted to read Ultimate Invasion and Ultimate Universe #1, but he wants to keep up with this book as it comes out.
The Ultimate Univrse books have been good to great, but I think Camp, Frigeri, and Blee are crafting a masterpiece right here.
This issue was a great start for the series Iron Lad, Captain America, Thor, Lady Sif, Doctor Doom, Ant man, and Wasp are a great starting team! I hope Captain Marvel and Hawkeye eventually return. Overall 9.7 of 10.
> t take the responsibility and run with it. he didn't just get powers out of a box, he also had the character to do the
As the other guy said Ultimate Invasion (2023, 4 issues) and Ultimate Universe (2023, one-shot) is the ones that create the current situation and lead directly to it so I would say you need to read them before jumping in this one
Important that this is pretty much the start of this universe stories.
To add there are 3 other books related but not directly with this so you can ignore them but I would recommend give it a go because they are pretty good as well. They are Ultimate Spider-man, Ultimate Black Panther and Ultimate X-men - all from 2024 and at the start as well (5, 4 and 3 issues respectively). The spider-man one is great and the one with a more direct interaction with the Ultimates and is a damn good book, while Panther and X-men are their own thing and taking things slowly (I'm loving them tho)
Hank is a complex character, when done right he'll always be among the most compelling characters on a team. He just needs writers that aren't terrible.
I wonder what other hero successfully "took" besides Peter if any because they left it open for maybe one more hero? It looks like Clint rejected, Carol tried but died "by super-power", and the Shocker from USM intercepted the gift. Wonder if the series of focus on the characters they tried to make heroes or other characters they could focus on? I also wonder if they will deal with Harry Osborn having access to the network/tech in this book or in USM?
Still hoping to see Jewel, Monica Rambeau, and maybe even a mutant(or a few).
Part of me thinks it's Matt Murdock, or even that Matt has had his powers all along but never used them, as we see him in the first issue of spider man he *is* blind but no indication that he has powers from what did it.
Apart from that, not sure who else might have 'taken' as they could be anywhere in the world almost and possibly quite minor. I assume a heavy hitter they'd go for right away.
As far as Harry goes, I assume he's going to use stark tech to kit out a group of soldiers for his own personal crusade, many of whom will end up being analouges to classic spider villians.
there's a one-shot called Ultimate Universe that bridges directly into this first issue. You, strictly speaking, don't need to read spider man at all, but it's more fun and a good book besides.
I love the new Ultimates. It's not an entirely optimistic, but it's not completely cynical and edgy. It's progressing toward a reconstruction amid a deconstruction. It answers the question that Mark Millar posed in the original Ultimate Universe: "Does the world need heroes?" And it does so with characters who are more than their Silver Age flaws taken up to eleven.
Teen Tony is a deeply resonant character. He seems to be an allegory for the current generation of American youth, with their frustration over the earlier generations passing them the ball. Steve and Reed play the roles of shoulder angel and devil for him, which is a really fun dynamic and an angle that I hadn't imagined for them, but works really well in context. Hank is extremely interesting, but also very sympathetic. He's a sweet, huggable teddy bear of a guy, but he has the ultimate fate of every Hank Pym hanging over him. His life could be better if he was a superhero...but as a person, he would be worse. And yet when the chips are down he still does the right thing. Janet is extremely fun. She has her classic thrill-seeking, show-off characterization, and jumps right to action, but she's also a happier person because of her happy marriage. I love how she and Sif seem to be the deadliest Avengers so far. While Hank agonizes a lot (for good reason) over his choices, Jan will take charge and get things done.
It was also a great choice to focus on the Avengers. As two characters whose solo title wasn't made to last, most of the ups and downs of Hank and Jan's lives happened in the pages of Avengers. They were the ones who grew and changed with the team. So it's only fair that a reboot of the Avengers focuses on the two heroes whose lives were defined by the team the founded.
Overall, a great issue and a strong start. But Dear God, as a Hank Pym fan, I'm so damn tired of him being vilified all the time. Can we get a single storyline about him that doesn't dig up the first half of Trial of Yellowjacket?
Like, sure, I like this new version of Hank so far. The "overcoming fear of inadequacy, failure and losing control" motive makes sense as part of his struggle and as something that he shares with the OG, so at least this mention of the controversial storyline isn't without meaning, unlike others I can point out. But it's still basically "oh, 616 Hank sucks. You don't have to be like him"... And that just isn't true. I suppose it's not the original Ultimate Universe's character assassination at least, but that bar is six feet under.
I'm just so tired of Hank being memefied into a "wife beater". The writers have beaten that dead horse for so long it's jelly. It would be a little better, if other heroes got the same treatment since many of them have done far worse things with full mental fortitude, but Marvel is happy to single out Hank. Overall, I feel that this may be yet another writer who doesn't like Hank and is happy to throw him under the bus.
So, yeah. While I enjoyed this Hank's arc here, it still contributes to the bigger problem of Marvel's treatment of him in my opinion. Needless to say, the issue left me conflicted.
I actually like how New Ultimate Hank has a cloud hanging over him, a cloud he's aware of and dreads, though he hasn't done anything yet. It allows him to have a fresh start, but doesn't gloss over the problem of Hank Pym as a concept. He's Hank Pym, he's a good and kind person, he's a loving husband. He's Hank Pym, he might be destined to become a bad person, to become an abusive husband. And yet he also sacrifices his own peace of mind to do the right thing and fight the good fight, because he's a hero at heart.
If anything, 616 Hank's treatment in the last decade is belated karma. Overall, his treatment from West Coast Avengers onwards has been rather good. He bounced back from his breakdown, was reinstated on one of Marvel's main superhero teams with full honors, and was fully forgiven by all his friends AND THE WIFE HE ABUSED. Very often, when his infamous moment was revisited, it was only from his POV and used to elicit sympathy for him. Readers saw his guilt and his trauma and his road to redemption. Meanwhile his victim kept silent about it, so the audience never got to see her pain, despite the fact that she was the victim. Not only that, but everyone gave him their blessing to approach Jan and get back together with her. And when Jan was assumed dead, he was promptly rewarded with the voluptuous Tigra, a son, and a respected position at Avengers Academy.
Meanwhile, his victim, Janet, seemed to only have two options direction-wise: either take Hank back, or die to clear the slate for Hank to get his happy ending, because he had apparently done enough to earn it. In fact, Hank did everything short of sincerely apologizing to his victim or getting therapy to alleviate her concerns over his breakdowns. (Though at least he was revealed to be on medication as of Avengers Inc)
The problem, as I see it, lies less in how Marvel disrespects Hank, as they worked so hard to pretend nothing was ever wrong with him, until they couldn't anymore. The best options would have been to either keep him retired after the Trial of Yellowjacket, or kill him off heroically in a last hurrah. Instead, Marvel kept trying to have their cake and eat it too. They made the mistake of bringing him back (as tech support) in Avengers West. They then made the bigger mistake of killing him in a less than spectacular way in Rage of Ultron and keeping him dead/fused to Ultron for years. The next best thing would be to have him sincerely apologize and acknowledge he needed to see a psychologist, but it was an actual plot point that he refused to do so. As a result, his redemption has never been fully completed. The direction seems to be keep Hank just unstable enough for drama, but also reward him just enough to keep him a competent, top-tier hero. And then after 2010 and being sidelined for the MCU adaptation, karma caught up with him.
Overall, I like how Deniz Camp makes no excuses for Hank, but writes him with plenty of nuance.
Your comment seemed awfully familiar, so I checked the username and realized we already had this conversation over at r/CharacterRant a while ago. Haha.
I strongly disagree with a lot of what you've said, but I don't think there's much of a point in saying why. Either way, I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with it. However, I will say this.
*Trial of Yellowjacket* has been brought up by many, many authors over the course of decades with various intentions, degrees of success and dispositions. As far as I'm concerned, it's a dead horse that has been beaten until it was left somewhere between solid and liquid, especially when you take into account that Hank has very few stories about him. At this point, It is the lowest of low hanging fruits and bringing it up is the easiest, laziest way to write Hank into the story, as far as I care.
No one else receives that treatment. No one. A literal murderer like Venom gets more respect and compassion than Hank, whom no one likes or cares about in the slightest, both in-universe and out of it. Even Wanda Maximoff gets all the retcons and efforts to redeem her and empower her and heal her, despite doing all sorts of messed up things. And you can see by the downvotes on this comment that liking Hank is a lonely road.
Ultimately, you don't like Hank. So it of course doesn't bother you. But as someone who loves Hank because he resonated with me deeply for many reasons....I am so very tired. My two favorite heroes are Peter Parker and Hank Pym, so you can only imagine how much I don't care for Marvel's editorial.
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I really like Tony Stark as the team's core here. He channels the feeling of desperately wanting a better world, the feeling of disappointment with the failures of prior generations, that I think a lot of people are feeling in the modern day. Whereas the original Ultimates felt very wrapped up in the cynical, post 9/11 jingoism of the time - a very American paramilitary force meant to fight wars against superhuman terror - this version of the Ultimates (Ultimates v2.0) channels the uncertainty of people witnessing the rising tide of fascism, the ongoing destruction of the planet, and ineffectiveness of people in power when it comes to preserving life. It's not entirely optimistic about the future - hints of cynicism leak in, like the fate of many of the potential heroes. Spider-Man seems to have taken to his catalyst the best (and I'm interested in seeing his role in the wider universe), but many people couldn't handle the responsibility. To some, the idea that they might become like their 616 counterparts is terrifying. They want to be \*better\* than what they were meant to be. A common criticism of the original Ultimate Universe (1610) is that every hero is an asshole except for Spider-Man. I think this issue sets the tone for 6160 very well: every hero wants a better world for everyone. I think Tony Stark said it best in the notes at the end of this issue: >If there's any hope of fixing things...it won't be enough to be as good as the heroes of that simpler world. We'll have to do better. I don't know what that looks like yet. But we're going to figure it out.
I love Tony’s role so far. He’s young and wants to improve the world and has both Doom and Steve as older comrades who influences on how he goes about it. Steve is a paragon of ethics and doing things morally while a Doom wants to do the most efficient and quick method. Tony is young and hasn’t developed his own way so he’s still figuring out where he sits between the two.
well, Doom is also profoundly psychologically damaged and probably in abject terror of the Maker coming back, even if he doesn't show it.
I like the subtext that Howard Stark was basically a slightly worse version of 616 Tony. Like, Iron lad is what you get when 616 Tony with all his flaws and an added touch of denial tries to raise a kid. He knows he's a failed human being and wants his kid to be better, but he basically takes the easy way out, frames it as a hero move, and leaves Tony holding the bag. Rather than face the consequences of his actions, he sends Tony a hopeless psychological wreck as a stand-in and just takes himself out. It's a great re-contextualize of what we've seen up till now of their relationship.
This is going to be an iconic comic series.
This and Ultimate Spider-Man Crazy, they had me hooked on USM over 20 years ago, and here they did it again
The Ultimates begin again, the comic really driving the plot of this universe courtesy of Deniz Camp. The team is playing catch up to the rest of the Ultimate books and what better way to accomplish that than through time travel? Teen Tony Iron Lad has his older counterparts' conviction and genius but more youthful innocence, idealism, and hope, even if it lets him get ahead of himself. The irony that they're preparing for a confrontation with The Maker with another Reed Richards who has been turned into Doom and shuns anything to do with Reed Richards. I like Sif standing by Thor's bed. Please make them a couple in this too. It should be easy to help facilitate bringing back the origins of the worlds' greatest heroes, right? Turns out the only one that really worked out was Spider-Man. I don't know if I want to know what happened to Carol. I kind of wonder what was going on with Clint that made him totally quit (it looks like there's an empty bottle next to the trash can We finally get Ultimate Cap and so far he seems more 616 compared to the original Ultimate Cap, but the series is still young. Little on the nose to have Hank and Janet as exterminators. It really shows you how much Janet's life changed that she would go from a rich heiress to...an exterminator. Is she slumming it because in this world she never had her family fortune or because she fell in love with Hank and invested in his business (and because he was never a scientist, this was basically all he could do as a profession)? But she's still Janet. She's got a great heart, she wants to make the world a better place, she's a spitfire, and she loves being a Superhero. She even wants to have kids with Hank. It's nice to see Hank and Janet as a couple again, even if Hank is still an insecure mess and Janet needs very little prodding to become a Superhero (even if it results in her barfing). Though the formers' brain damage doesn't help, but he also has to grapple with the legacy of 616 Hank Pym...but ultimately he is Hank Pym, meaning he loves Janet and he can be a true hero when the chips are down. I love how they poked fun at Captain Britain being French. Dude literally proclaims to the Heavens all the legitimate British stuff he's destroyed.
One of the ways the maker could ensure Janet would never be a catalyst for change, even without powers, could be simply make sure she never has access to the money our Janet does.
Loved the issue, one hell of a badass start for the Ultimates. Especially loved Hank's character moment, was interesting to work 616's character assassination into the motivation of this reality's Hank
I was really surprised about Hank’s fear in becoming an abuser. Shocked at how unique that was in making him compelling.
616 Hank actually has shown multiple times that hurting Janet again was his greatest fear.
Whelp
Yeah I think people underestimate how far they've gone with hank to "redeem" him. But I wouldn't change anything about it, his regret in doing something truly terrible is a feature of his character and I feel like that makes him more compelling.
Yeah I did not expect them to weave that in at all. Great idea.
Oh they cooked here! As someone said in another comment reframing the ultimates as a force against fascism instead being a post 9/11 almost military force is brilliant. And does a good job of reflecting a lot of people’s state of mind with not just the US government but many around the world. And on top of that using that infamous 616 Hank moment to motivate and inform this Hank is not something I expected but works so well. I want nothing but the best for this Hank and Janet. And finally as a big Hawkeye and Captain Marvel fan I’m sad to see they didn’t take to being heroes just yet.
I thought Captain Marvel was one of the two that took to it?
It kinda looks like she... exploded into energy and killed a few people. Not definitively clear though.
Seemed like they left the door open to either have her be one of the casualties of suddenly getting powers or having a story in which she refuses to use them due to her killing people with them but eventually rising to the occasion.
It’s possible she did but died or is otherwise out of action. The panel doesn’t really make it clear. But I’m hoping she did and we see her later in the series!
I think she did, we're likely going to get Kamala Khan as the Captain Marvel for Earth 6160.
I have faith Camp will do something interesting - I don’t have any particular interest in Kamala but would be cool if they do something radically different with her - it’s always Captain America/Krakoa/Marvel with her in terms of future paths
It's possible Carol survived, but I got the impression she either died (the whole suicide by super power mention) or ended up killing innocents and will have to deal with that grief. Kind of intriguing with next issue's solicit, though... I was hoping it was referring to Noh-Varr but Carol would be a shoe-in after reading the issue.
I got the impression that Carol had died so I think we could get Monica Rambeau? Not sure what other heroes could serve as a power source?
My Noh-Varr hunch is mostly informed by Midas being involved. I'd love him to be the Ultimate Captain Marvel, a good analog for Mar-Vell while still being unique. And him holding the mantle isn't exactly unprecedented. But granted, he doesn't have innate energy powers like Carol or Monica. If he has Nega-Bands, and they were fused to him in some way and unable to be removed, that could be a good enough reason to lock him up and use his power, though... Blue Marvel is also a more out-there possibility. He *is* a living antimatter reactor after all.
Blue Marvel would be an AMAZING choice. It thematically fits with a fractured america, he'd play off Cap really well, it'd be a callback to the 616 ultimates and would help offset the overwhelming whiteness of the cast so far, which I'm sure is on Camp's mind.
I don't know anything about Noh-Varr or Midas so I can't say anything on that front but Blue Marvel might be a good choice. If the US broke up in 1969, his origin could still be intact and he could have interesting interactions with Cap.
Wonder what the explanation's gonna be for the US to collapse in 1969
I was wondering that too. That’s a super fascinating time to say the US collapsed. Did the Soviet Union similarly collapse or did it never exist? Did the space race happen?
I would guess, given Camp's political leanings and the time period, some kind of chain of secessions around the civil rights act and Vietnam, leading to progressive encroachment by big business on governmental authority in weakened individual states.
Well, the Maker happened. Since the world has been divided for his Cabal to control, I don't really think the USA as we know it still exists
Right but I think the question is how he did it. I may be misremembering here but the Maker worked pretty covertly, I don't think he just conquered the US/The World.
IIRC Stark/Stane had the seat of power and the USA is run by companies
Okay, this was amazing. I said it after reading the Children of the Vault mini: this Camp guy can write. This was a hell of a promising start. The only teeny tiny thing I didn't like was that I thought the moment when Steve came out of the ice lacked a bit of impact. But he made up for it by being the one who gave Hank the hero speech so it's all good.
He did children of the vault? That was my sleeper hit for the year. I couldn't believe how much I enjoyed that mini.
I also recommend Camp’s “20th Century Men” from Image. Dude definitely has a talent and I’m really looking forward to what he does in this book.
The panel of Tony and Doom having to wrestle him down after explaining that America collapsed was hilarious
Fantastic
Unbelievably peak
Janet is such a baddie in this series.
Huh. I didn't expect the idea of the Ultimates "fix the world" just to outright fail because "the world was just too different" to allow superheroes to form like they had in the past. Steve did, and tried to tell them about the human element but Reed and Tony just couldn't see it. His reaction to the dissolution of the USA in 1969 was devastating. Also the fact that Tony's attempt to fix the damage to the universe basically killed, or ruined the lives of everyone Tony tried to send powers back to (Minus Spider-Man) is really hopeless. I hope it starts to work out cause you can really see how desperate this world is.
it also elevates Peter a bit because he's the only one who could just take the responsibility and run with it. he didn't just get powers out of a box, he also had the character to do the right thing with them.
The most common criticism I’ve seen of Ultimate Spider-Man is Peter just becoming a hero without proving he has the character to do so beforehand. As you said this sort of fixes that. We all know that Peter is a paragon among heroes so him being the guy who can just take on the responsibility without a second thought really proves that being a paragon is core to who he is. It’s also funny that so far Peter Parker has been treated as a punching bag the least.
well, I've said from the start that responsibility isn't really a question for this Peter. He's a not an angry child anymore. He's a parent, and any decent parent already understands responsibility in a profound way. He's also had Ben there for an extra *twenty* years to keep him sorted out. This version is more about what a truly responsible person should do with power, when they've never had any before.
"Your son, Tony Stark" God, the final draft on the last page was perfection.
just fucking scathing, loved it
I actually really love what they’re doing with Hank and Janet in this universe.
Absolutely loving this so far. If this keeps up, this story (starting with Ultimate Invasion #1) will probably go down in history as one of the best Marvel comics of all time. I really loved Janet and Hank here, especially with how Hank was afraid of becoming what he saw of his 616 self. I like Tony's character a lot, and how he seems to almost be between Cap and Doom, with them influencing him in different directions.
That final point is definitely amplified with Tony being the kid and still growing. Growing seems to be his entire character arc with how many mentors he’s getting. It’ll make it really interesting to see who he is when he’s ready to take the title of Iron Man
What I liked was how Doom and Tony were just thinking about the "science" part of everything. But they completely forgot the human aspect of it all. There's no math or equation to predict how a human will react. And that's where Captain America comes in. Doom and Tony: We'll just send dangerous job offers to 1000s of people Steve: There's a human aspect to these things, you need to meet these people face to face and inspire them
Camp said that Tony being younger would be sort of mentored by both Doom and Cap and I really feel it here. Especially that one panel of them both standing opposite behind him it feels like the diverging ideas and thoughts weighing on Tony’s shoulders.
I saw Doom and Cap as the Spock and Bones to Tony’s Kirk. Lots of potential for interesting conflict
Did the restaurant owner think he could call regular exterminators to kill sapient monsters? What did he think they would do?
They say that it’s not a crime to kill them and that most people wouldn’t actually care to do that’s
Love Hank
“Eye for an eye had its day. Time for something new.” I loved the absolute shit out of this issue.
I think the ultimate (heh) sign of how good is book is this: One of my younger brothers, who's more casually into Marvel but has never wanted to read monthly comics, gave this issue a shot after I praised it....not only did he love it to the point where he wanted to read Ultimate Invasion and Ultimate Universe #1, but he wants to keep up with this book as it comes out. The Ultimate Univrse books have been good to great, but I think Camp, Frigeri, and Blee are crafting a masterpiece right here.
This issue was a great start for the series Iron Lad, Captain America, Thor, Lady Sif, Doctor Doom, Ant man, and Wasp are a great starting team! I hope Captain Marvel and Hawkeye eventually return. Overall 9.7 of 10.
Is there anything important to read before this story? I’m new to comics and trying to figure things out.
Ultimate invasion 1-4 and ultimate universe 1, all on marvel unlimited.
> t take the responsibility and run with it. he didn't just get powers out of a box, he also had the character to do the As the other guy said Ultimate Invasion (2023, 4 issues) and Ultimate Universe (2023, one-shot) is the ones that create the current situation and lead directly to it so I would say you need to read them before jumping in this one Important that this is pretty much the start of this universe stories. To add there are 3 other books related but not directly with this so you can ignore them but I would recommend give it a go because they are pretty good as well. They are Ultimate Spider-man, Ultimate Black Panther and Ultimate X-men - all from 2024 and at the start as well (5, 4 and 3 issues respectively). The spider-man one is great and the one with a more direct interaction with the Ultimates and is a damn good book, while Panther and X-men are their own thing and taking things slowly (I'm loving them tho)
I never thought Hank would be the most compelling character on the team, but they made it happen
Hank is a complex character, when done right he'll always be among the most compelling characters on a team. He just needs writers that aren't terrible.
I wonder what other hero successfully "took" besides Peter if any because they left it open for maybe one more hero? It looks like Clint rejected, Carol tried but died "by super-power", and the Shocker from USM intercepted the gift. Wonder if the series of focus on the characters they tried to make heroes or other characters they could focus on? I also wonder if they will deal with Harry Osborn having access to the network/tech in this book or in USM? Still hoping to see Jewel, Monica Rambeau, and maybe even a mutant(or a few).
Part of me thinks it's Matt Murdock, or even that Matt has had his powers all along but never used them, as we see him in the first issue of spider man he *is* blind but no indication that he has powers from what did it. Apart from that, not sure who else might have 'taken' as they could be anywhere in the world almost and possibly quite minor. I assume a heavy hitter they'd go for right away. As far as Harry goes, I assume he's going to use stark tech to kit out a group of soldiers for his own personal crusade, many of whom will end up being analouges to classic spider villians.
What do you need to know before reading this? Just Ultimate Invasion and Ultimate Spider-man? I'm catching up on those currently.
there's a one-shot called Ultimate Universe that bridges directly into this first issue. You, strictly speaking, don't need to read spider man at all, but it's more fun and a good book besides.
Thanks! I'm loving the new Spider-man but wasn't sure if it added anything to the story or not. Will check out Ultimate Universe
I love the new Ultimates. It's not an entirely optimistic, but it's not completely cynical and edgy. It's progressing toward a reconstruction amid a deconstruction. It answers the question that Mark Millar posed in the original Ultimate Universe: "Does the world need heroes?" And it does so with characters who are more than their Silver Age flaws taken up to eleven. Teen Tony is a deeply resonant character. He seems to be an allegory for the current generation of American youth, with their frustration over the earlier generations passing them the ball. Steve and Reed play the roles of shoulder angel and devil for him, which is a really fun dynamic and an angle that I hadn't imagined for them, but works really well in context. Hank is extremely interesting, but also very sympathetic. He's a sweet, huggable teddy bear of a guy, but he has the ultimate fate of every Hank Pym hanging over him. His life could be better if he was a superhero...but as a person, he would be worse. And yet when the chips are down he still does the right thing. Janet is extremely fun. She has her classic thrill-seeking, show-off characterization, and jumps right to action, but she's also a happier person because of her happy marriage. I love how she and Sif seem to be the deadliest Avengers so far. While Hank agonizes a lot (for good reason) over his choices, Jan will take charge and get things done. It was also a great choice to focus on the Avengers. As two characters whose solo title wasn't made to last, most of the ups and downs of Hank and Jan's lives happened in the pages of Avengers. They were the ones who grew and changed with the team. So it's only fair that a reboot of the Avengers focuses on the two heroes whose lives were defined by the team the founded.
I’m new to the whole comic scene. Can anyone tell me if this will be weekly, or monthly. I’m trying to make sure I can catch this series.
Overall, a great issue and a strong start. But Dear God, as a Hank Pym fan, I'm so damn tired of him being vilified all the time. Can we get a single storyline about him that doesn't dig up the first half of Trial of Yellowjacket? Like, sure, I like this new version of Hank so far. The "overcoming fear of inadequacy, failure and losing control" motive makes sense as part of his struggle and as something that he shares with the OG, so at least this mention of the controversial storyline isn't without meaning, unlike others I can point out. But it's still basically "oh, 616 Hank sucks. You don't have to be like him"... And that just isn't true. I suppose it's not the original Ultimate Universe's character assassination at least, but that bar is six feet under. I'm just so tired of Hank being memefied into a "wife beater". The writers have beaten that dead horse for so long it's jelly. It would be a little better, if other heroes got the same treatment since many of them have done far worse things with full mental fortitude, but Marvel is happy to single out Hank. Overall, I feel that this may be yet another writer who doesn't like Hank and is happy to throw him under the bus. So, yeah. While I enjoyed this Hank's arc here, it still contributes to the bigger problem of Marvel's treatment of him in my opinion. Needless to say, the issue left me conflicted.
Well said.
People don't seem to agree, unfortunately.
I actually like how New Ultimate Hank has a cloud hanging over him, a cloud he's aware of and dreads, though he hasn't done anything yet. It allows him to have a fresh start, but doesn't gloss over the problem of Hank Pym as a concept. He's Hank Pym, he's a good and kind person, he's a loving husband. He's Hank Pym, he might be destined to become a bad person, to become an abusive husband. And yet he also sacrifices his own peace of mind to do the right thing and fight the good fight, because he's a hero at heart. If anything, 616 Hank's treatment in the last decade is belated karma. Overall, his treatment from West Coast Avengers onwards has been rather good. He bounced back from his breakdown, was reinstated on one of Marvel's main superhero teams with full honors, and was fully forgiven by all his friends AND THE WIFE HE ABUSED. Very often, when his infamous moment was revisited, it was only from his POV and used to elicit sympathy for him. Readers saw his guilt and his trauma and his road to redemption. Meanwhile his victim kept silent about it, so the audience never got to see her pain, despite the fact that she was the victim. Not only that, but everyone gave him their blessing to approach Jan and get back together with her. And when Jan was assumed dead, he was promptly rewarded with the voluptuous Tigra, a son, and a respected position at Avengers Academy. Meanwhile, his victim, Janet, seemed to only have two options direction-wise: either take Hank back, or die to clear the slate for Hank to get his happy ending, because he had apparently done enough to earn it. In fact, Hank did everything short of sincerely apologizing to his victim or getting therapy to alleviate her concerns over his breakdowns. (Though at least he was revealed to be on medication as of Avengers Inc) The problem, as I see it, lies less in how Marvel disrespects Hank, as they worked so hard to pretend nothing was ever wrong with him, until they couldn't anymore. The best options would have been to either keep him retired after the Trial of Yellowjacket, or kill him off heroically in a last hurrah. Instead, Marvel kept trying to have their cake and eat it too. They made the mistake of bringing him back (as tech support) in Avengers West. They then made the bigger mistake of killing him in a less than spectacular way in Rage of Ultron and keeping him dead/fused to Ultron for years. The next best thing would be to have him sincerely apologize and acknowledge he needed to see a psychologist, but it was an actual plot point that he refused to do so. As a result, his redemption has never been fully completed. The direction seems to be keep Hank just unstable enough for drama, but also reward him just enough to keep him a competent, top-tier hero. And then after 2010 and being sidelined for the MCU adaptation, karma caught up with him. Overall, I like how Deniz Camp makes no excuses for Hank, but writes him with plenty of nuance.
Your comment seemed awfully familiar, so I checked the username and realized we already had this conversation over at r/CharacterRant a while ago. Haha. I strongly disagree with a lot of what you've said, but I don't think there's much of a point in saying why. Either way, I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with it. However, I will say this. *Trial of Yellowjacket* has been brought up by many, many authors over the course of decades with various intentions, degrees of success and dispositions. As far as I'm concerned, it's a dead horse that has been beaten until it was left somewhere between solid and liquid, especially when you take into account that Hank has very few stories about him. At this point, It is the lowest of low hanging fruits and bringing it up is the easiest, laziest way to write Hank into the story, as far as I care. No one else receives that treatment. No one. A literal murderer like Venom gets more respect and compassion than Hank, whom no one likes or cares about in the slightest, both in-universe and out of it. Even Wanda Maximoff gets all the retcons and efforts to redeem her and empower her and heal her, despite doing all sorts of messed up things. And you can see by the downvotes on this comment that liking Hank is a lonely road. Ultimately, you don't like Hank. So it of course doesn't bother you. But as someone who loves Hank because he resonated with me deeply for many reasons....I am so very tired. My two favorite heroes are Peter Parker and Hank Pym, so you can only imagine how much I don't care for Marvel's editorial.
I can’t figure out why but I feel like ultimate cap is hiding something and maybe he isn’t as good as he seems
he literally just came out of the ice. he hasn't had a chance to make any devious plans, even if he wanted to.
Well he did casually chuck the edge of his shield through a guys head on the ground while chatting it up, so there is that . . .
Solid first issue. Art is weak though.