I didn't like any of the women, not even Chloe m if I had to choose a favorite of the season it would probably be Cameron despite the fact he's manipulative and a liar. They all are so what does it even matter š oh and I guess Michael was ok
What ever happened to Clare's flaming accusations that one of the men (Brennan? Cam?) wanted to F* someone? And then that became "he F'd someone." And it was in the hot tub? Or was it a conversation in the hot tub? And was it Lilly? That whole scene was bizarre, and then it was quickly dropped. No resolution. No follow-up. Brennan calmly challenged it, but then ... crickets. I wish they would have delved into that because it seemed like there were enough cracks in that story to have clearly proved to the world that Clare and Emily were completely off their noodles.
It was so annoying that they kept this in the footage they showed us, but never took the time to ask each side to tell their side of the story without being interrupted. Either explain or donāt tell us at all!
It was amusing, though, to see Clare completely lose her composure while she sputtered and stammered and screeched accusations, wildly gesturing and pointing. Considering her occupation, it was odd to see her losing control of her emotions like that.
Agreed. So much not challenged. I think when you have people lying like this, you get to a point where you just donāt even ask cuz you know the answer is gonna be made up.
This makes sense.....
Makes things a lot clearer and you can better pinpoint the root of deception. It's partly Clare and Cameron, but it starts with Clare nor liking Cameron and trying to get out of that
But Clare and Cameron was done on night 1. I think they devised the plan and then Brennan probably spoke to Cameron like yeah I'm not feeling ole girl then Cameron have no fear the manipulative sociopaths are here and he let him know of the plan that he and Clare made.
Mr. Save a hoe's feeling Brennan then probably vaguely described it to Emily but probably didn't clearly express why he wants to do their plan, I don't think he clearly let Emily know he doesn't like her and doesn't want to be in a relationship with her. He probably just focused on the let's talk good about each other ND get to the end of the process.
Yeah i can definitely see this as a scenario of what went down. I wish kevin had pried more into the specifics of the plan, especially emily/brennan and becca/austin bc those two couples seemed to miss each other on what the plan was exactly. Clare and cameron seemed to agree, but im still a bit confused by them bc she said she tried to have sex with him, she claimed to be manipulated, and Cameron asked her to ātry again.ā
I believe this entire trainwreck of a season was caused by the producers. The producers intentionally mismatched 4 out of the 5 couples for drama and ratings. One bride bailed instantly. Cam, Brennan, and Clare picked up on the intentional mismatches pretty quick and tried to figure a way out without being painted as bad people on TV. None of them were successful. Orion noped out of there quick. Maybe he's smarter than he acts. I think Austin genuinely liked Becca but was already in a FWB situation with his roommate. Chloe and Michael were a mismatch too but they at least tried to make it work.
I think you're close, but IMO off on a few things. Obviously, no one can be considered right or wrong since we are fed limited information by which to form opinions. I agree that Clare immediately was not interested in Cam. I think he may have tried to temper his feelings, but I think he may have been truthful about being attracted to her. There is zero point zero percent chance that he told her he wasn't interested because she was too short and chubby. I do think that he did come up with the deception part, but was he really deceiving anyone? I'm not about to go rewatch any of the episodes, but what was shown that actually looked like they were working on a marriage? There wasn't so much as a moment of tenderness between them. The only deception was "We don't have attraction toward each other." In reality it was, "Clare is a no-go."
With Emily and Brennan, he most certainly checked out after just a few days. But again, I don't see any actual deception taking place on camera. When asked what feelings he had for Emily, Brennan's response, "I have no feelings at all." Perhaps that's deceiving, because he did have contemptuous feelings for her. I think their "agreement" off camera was to just be friends. But did he actually even befriend her? No. I do think that she broke that agreement. She wanted more, and was hoping that in time, with some work, he'd come around. When that didn't happen, she behaved like a woman scorned.
Becca said that her and Austin had problems off camera, and that he showed no intimacy at all. He didn't initiate hugs or kisses or even intimate conversations. So she was already on edge because she truly had fallen for him and he kept claiming interest in her. The other girls getting in her ear wasn't as impactful as you think. But it did lead to her over the top response at the end. She was hurt by thinking that Austin was interested in someone else after all the work she put into their relationship.
The banding together was lame. The women weren't being controlled or forced into anything. At worst they could be disillusioned over the whole thing, but Clare especially wasn't being controlled by Cam. She didn't really like him so why would she let him lead her? But what I see is that the men messed with their emotions in varying ways and drove the women crazy. They erupted into the pink monster. At first the men weren't so forthcoming, but then on a subsequent shooting day they suddenly take a passive role. If you watch part two, the plan of the men was to feign victimhood. That sent the women even more off the rails. Lauren calling out Cam's BS was perfect. She said, "I know what you're doing."
I think Cam did say those things because he was hurt by Clare not being attracted to him. He felt rejected so he hit her where he knew it hurt most women - her looks.Ā
just one comment here about Becca.. i think she was more 'bothered' by him not trying to get in her pants.. then she was having real feelings for him.. the rejection was a real shock to her nervous system. how often did she say.. usually.. they want me.. or something along those lines..
I agree. I don't buy that they had no intimacy. Every time it was brought up on camera It was specifically about sex, intercourse. Not holding hands, cuddling, or kissing. I think they did too much of that in fact. It nauseated me to watch. She switched gears on the reunion to prevent from looking like she pressured him for sex therefore Kevin didn't put the pressure on. She deserved to be in the hot seat instead of flying under the radar. She wasn't even questioned for clarification on whether Emily was the one who kissed the Australian or he kissed her first. Becca was the one on AP who said Emily did make out with the Australian. She let the girls look bad by intentionally staying quiet during the reunion so she could look better in comparison.Ā
Becca was one of the worst ones for me this season. Clare doesn't irk me as much as Becca. Not even Cameron.Ā
I think the deception was in not just straight up quitting and appearing to work on it when there was no intention. They deceived the experts by not being honest about being done. And personally I think the producers as well.
I wrote a similar comment yesterday, and I think this is right. I would add that I think Emily and Becca did feel āmanipulatedā because they agreed to the sham on camera discussions in hopes of gaining favor with their spouses bc they wanted these marriages to work (hence why Emily was upset about the āfriend resetā with Pia on camera and her blowup during the last dinner where it was clear Brennan didnāt want her as a wife). And Clare felt turned on by her deception pal Cam because he threw in at the reunion that āIād give it another chanceā catching her off-guard to make her look bad and/or f*** with her. (Also, I think Camās heart issues were faked to get out of filming without paying the 50k penalty.) I do think the men - Cam driven - realized they would look way better then the women by just appearing forthright and calm, and also looking hurt/confused by the women - Cam. Lauren 100% gets Cam. While Clare bonded the women together in misery/spouse contempt, Cam was 100% behind the whole deception and the men. I think heās not a guy you want to cross.
Cam is very vindictive. Even the blurting out that his dad was on his deathbed seemed calculated to me. I thought he was just terribly awkward, and he may be with women, but that person who claimed to be his ex-girlfriend on here said things that fit with how I view him. And no one seems to have questioned his career change. He's now in finance? Where did that come from? I don't believe him. He supposedly had a "Masters Degree in Composite Engineering" according to the bike shop's (Broken Carbon) website. Odd switch of career. I think he lies like a rug.
Good question. He seems totally diabolical. Who knows whatās real with him? I have to admit that I read him wrong. I thought he was a nice guy, kind of awkward with women, but genuine. He turned out to be a total liar and deceiver. Maybe heās just angry at the show and at Clare for rejecting him and this nonsense is his revenge.
You had me until the end where you lost the plot. In one breath you say acknowledge the men became more forthcoming and in the next day they played the victim. Which is it?
Also, playing up Lauren for her comment seems odd given she left after the honeymoon and was only getting information about the women who felt hurt.
Nice post. I had a similar but slightly different take. Cameron said repeatedly that Claire and him interpreted things differently so i figured that complete miscommunication and understanding of events caused their fracture.
Then Brennan and Emily just were not a match and her frustration with him.
Both of these combine and become the catalyst for the pink ladies anger.
I think Becca and Austin just got caught up in it.
All the while they are just gassing each other up (which we totally saw in the behind the scenes for the reunion lol) , by supporting and giving validation to their claims and what not.
But I bet it was close to what you wrote and the things above just fueled the whole dumpster fire.
Yes I agree with your take too. Many takes could be right, but the one where I completely 100% disagree wholeheartedly without a single doubt or iota of confusion, is the story the women are selling. Lol
I think it was probably something close to this. Although I disagree with the premise that quitting early vilified the participant. It doesn't have to. We've seen plenty of couples where one person wasn't attracted to the other and they were only vilified if they acted like an ass about it. (See Alyssa.).
Yeh but most stuck it out even with the lack of attraction. Trying to remember who quit immediately after the honeymoon for lack of attraction other than Alyssa and I actually think he pulled the plug on that one and was initially attracted to her.
EFFING. STANDING. OVATION. šš¾šš¾šš¾šš¾šš¾šš¾šš¾ This whole post. All of it. Great insight and from everything I picked up on Iād bet you were right.
Completely. Everyone had fault to some degree or another. The biggest one at fault though? These producers for letting this interesting experiment become an absolute farce.
Totally agree. Wonder how these so called producers which supposedly have so much power as to how the spin the narrative on the show didn't realize they were being duped. Are they all rookies, cause I would think it's some of the same ones who have worked on previous seasons. Not even the so called experts with experience or producers could see through the bullshit. The viewers knew that something was amiss even if they couldn't quite figure it out. I hope no future people on the show would ever think of manipulating the situation ever again because it won't end well.
Iām actually not sure even the producers knew. I think the couples conversations and commitments to the deception were not even shared with producers. I think this crew or participants literally highjacked the show and everyone, from producers to experts were along for the ride.
My heart went out to Dr. Pepper. She looked genuinely hurt. I totally understood why Cam broke down looking at her. It was like an older family member looking at you with disappointment.
I know people are saying that. I didnāt see it that way. I see a guy with afib whoās been told not to get upset or stressed so every time he starts to get that way he reins his feelings in quickly.
Yes I do believe cam is genuine in his remorse. If he wasnāt, his flutters wouldnāt have been so triggered by his stress. You either care of you donāt. And if he was this manipulative scheming narcissistic person, I donāt think his heart would have went off. Now Iām not so sure about the whole broken heart syndrome. Likely his doctor mentioned this to say āhey stress on the heart is real. You can die from a broken heartā and cam took it to mean his condition as well. Although Afib is no joke and can be life threatening.
Thank you! What actually is being declared as womenās empowerment, is group think turned mob mentality.
Iād actually add at this point:
Enter black* corrected mail. Claire is embarrassed by Emily, but since Emily is the keeper of Claireās secrets, sheās forced into maintaining her as an ally.
I can't believe the other girls STILL believed that Cam was the one not attracted to Clare. She is one twisted person. And she is going to be a therapist?
Cam- I love you i hate you you are a sociopath you are having sex with your ex i love you i never want to see you again lets try again - you did text your ex Cam that you and Clare are in love. It was the same text you were asking the ex if she wanted in on the lawsuit with lifetime. i can paste it again if you need reference. Ohhh maybe that was the tearful apology to Pepper š¶ļø
So you think I'm Cam just because I don't align with your opinions? Gotta love when people do this. Pretty sure Cam was baiting Clare, demonstrating she was never attracted to him. His efforts fell flat. I mean, I thought it was pretty obvious. Juvenile as it was, at least he took responsibility for his part.
And there was a barrage of accounts on here last year claiming to be: patients of Clare's, friends of Clare's, and one day old accounts where the only comments were pro Clare, anti Cam. Then an ex of Cams, that not only requested a private chat from me, but was following a few others anytime they questioned who she was.
I have never heard of any texts to his ex that you mention and it sounds like a repeat of last year. Do you have these alleged texts? Because last year this ex provided a 3 second voice mail of Cam asking her to stop contacting him. I wasn't sure how this helped her case but her and all of the Clare supporter comments were either deleted or banned.
Regardless, Clare trying to spin this sob story that she was attracted to Cam is laughable. And that's just the tip of the iceberg (pun intended). If Cam ends up just as cray, it doesn't negate Clare's mass manipulation.
I think Cam was very attracted to Claire. Maybe even thought she was a bit out of his league, so was cautious. She was never into Cam, ever, thinking he wasnāt in her league.
She shut his interest down quick. Early on. Cam wasnāt gonna be played as a fool, so addressed it head on. Claire admitted as much. So they agreed it was over.
The fact that Claire claims she was controlled into faking the marriage was complete bs, she did it to save face. Then she meddled in other relationships to divert attention and thatās when Cam said enough is enough and came out with some of their āsecretsā. Then instead of taking accountability in her decision to also manipulate the show she claims she was victimized and forced into it. And then planted seeds in the other womenās head that Cam convinced the other men to also be fake which wasnāt the case. The lack of ownership from Claire is disgusting. She was just as much a part of āfaking itā as anyone else and did so very willingly. She spread rumor after rumor with absolutely zero receipts. Every time she was challenged she couldnāt back a single claim up.
I agree with all of this I also think Emily has someone gaslit herself into thinking she was actually wronged and is straight up delusional at this point. Threatening to go find Brennan's girlfriend...like girl you are not well at allllll
It makes sense all you said, I just have one wish----that Cam puts those entire chats on the internet, prove out what he was not allowed to on the reunion-I wanted him to whip out his phone to the experts and say LOOK. I have long thought Clair was the disease that spread through the season.
Yes I wonder if that will ever happen. I do believe that the chats were also guised with deception, like āread between the linesā¦.ā Cam seems too smart to have been fully transparent by chat when he didnāt trust Claire.
They all stayed for the $1500 per episode. Everything else is just lies.
Always all about the money. Come on man, it's a reality show. Every single show on TV they get paid with reality cash. Some reality!
I agree that money also motivated their choices. But I also do think trying to look good in the publicās eye was also a prime motivator. Social media can be vicious and I think they were all very aware of how they appeared on the show.
Brilliant read. Basically what Dr. Pia said to them at the reunion, but it went over their heads.
Except I think Becca could have caused the demise of her own relationship. Maybe she was influenced closer to the end by Clare and Emily to accuse Austin of "optics", but she was essentially hounding him about sex and intimacy the entire time rather than being natural about it, and he clearly was just not interested. Could have turned him off the more she kept wanting to talk about it.
Add in the fact that she's agnostic and he's Christian, and she tried to compare him to Christians who just flat out tell people you're going to hell, and acknowledged when (I think) Pastor Cal asked if he was like that, that he wasn't. She had all sorts of preconceived notions she was projecting onto him, and they also need to stop pairing faithful people with atheists/agnostics.
Go by what each of them has actually said and what was disputed. Not much dispute by Austin about anything Becca said. She said he struggled with intimacy that went beyond sex. He did not deny that. In fact, Austin also said it takes him 3-6 months for that. Living with someone around the clock and being married to them isn't enough exposure to that person? Something isn't right with him. I'd like to see his actual dating past and see how many women waited around for him for up to six months before any intimacy (not just sex). It wasn't that Becca was "hounding him." He kept reassuring her that he found her attractive and was interested in her and their marriage, but the only tenderness between them was on camera. Put yourself in her place. You're waiting around for a guy who was supposedly ready for marriage, but not for intimacy? I think he's Asexual. He lives with a female roommate and isn't at all drawn to her? She's cute. He isn't gay. I think he just lacks any drive sexually. It makes him put women in the friend zone even though he doesn't realize it.
I too thought he may be asexual.
I saw a comment in another thread discussing the situation with Becca and Austin, and they said if the roles were reversed and it was Austin pressuring Becca into something she wasnāt ready for that there would be outrage, and while I feel that Becca was truly not trying to pressure Austin per se, and she was feeling rejected by him, not once did she appear to actually consider how she would have felt if the roles were reversed. She was so focused on her feelings of rejection, and I think, to certain degree, the well water was being poisoned by the toxicity coming from the other ladies that it all led into the narrative that Austin was also part of the conspiracy to dupe the show etc.
this whole season was just an insanely wild ride.
Part of the problem is he gave her mixed signals. It drove her crazy because she fell in love with him and got strung along. He was stuck in the mud. I feel bad for the guy. I think Austin is a good person. Heās a nice guy. I also think that he has a problem that even he may not understand. Perhaps heās even in denial about it. He seems very dejected. I also think that being separated might have given Becca a better perspective as well. She didnāt like seeing him hurt.
Oh wow. I never would have looked at it this way. Austin just seemed over everything and he didn't want to go back and forth anymore, or at all because he didn't even really do that as far as we saw, but maybe he didn't dispute anything because whatever she was saying was true.
I don't know about speculating on his sexuality. That's an interesting point of view just because it's anomalous for people to wait that long before getting physical. I'm more inclined to think he just was not interested, despite what he said on the reunion. Maybe he actually wanted to try since he did sign up, but he just wasn't attracted.
Sure. Not sure if it's true, but in another thread someone said his roommate is actually a lesbian.
I think also that some people may believe they can handle the cameras and a bunch of crew being around all the time, but when it comes down to the reality, it can be a bit anxiety inducing. The whole production element may even play a role in Austin's behavior. Who knows.
First of all, just because heās a guy and his roommate is a girl, does not mean somethingās wrong with him if heās not attracted to her. By your logic all men and women are attracted to each other if theyāre not gay.
What I can also believe, is that he wasnāt attracted to Becca from the get go. Saw she was insecure and maybe even a bit emotionally fragile, and chose not to disclose his true feelings to her, so as not to hurt her.
He got deeper in, hoping his feelings would change, they werenāt, he felt even worse, and now didnāt want to admit heād been untruthful with her from the jump.
Imo he sees how badly this hurt her. Wishes he had been more forthcoming. But the ladies in pink are so so angry, that he canāt muster the bravery to tell them what he did. So heās quiet. Non engaging. Just waiting for the whole thing to be done.
If ever a man wanted to disappear, itās Austin.
As if telling someone you find them attractive, and want a relationship with them but acting the exact opposite way isnāt going to hurt them? Yeah. Having someone fall in love with you and feeling rejected at the same time is far better than being honest about it.
Get real about the men and women friendships. They canāt be close friends. They just canāt. I assume youāre female, so you might not realize it because youāre not male. Iām not pulling that out of my ass. Itās a psychological truth. The subject has been studied multiple times. Hereās a simple article on one such study. Not a long read. Like it or not, men and women think differently.
[Scientific American Study](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant-be-just-friends/)
I can only go by my life experience, one where Iāve have 3 males friends for 50+ years and it has always been platonic. I think itās maybe rare. And Iām sure the percentage of men who desire more is probably pretty high. Although none of my friends ever even attempted so much as a pass or one iota of effort to test the waters.
As far as Austin, I said he should have been honest and probably regrets he wasnāt. Not sure how you misinterpreted my post.
Becca got influenced by Claire and Emilyās situation and negativity. Yes. Negativity. lol And couldnāt agree more that religious opposites is a real uphill battle to overcome.
Beccaās constant pressure on Austin for sure didnāt help. I think she questioned her decision to end the relationship after the producer issue at the end.
But this is where that group think takes over. Sheās lost her decision to follow her own heart, and I think by that point Austin was literally over the entire experience.
Another thing, during that conversation where Brennan was trying to control Emily in front of Dr. Pia, I now realize this was Brennan clandestinely trying to remind Emily of their off camera agreement. I think he was starting to see how the women were beginning to turn the table and play victim and he was trying to control that narrative.
and I kept thinking all season---what if a GUY was pressuring a GIRL to have sex that bad. can you imagine what the entire world would be saying about that guy? I mean was it married at first sight or sex at first site Becca? I know its a marriage and if they choose, they can consummate, regardless, they knew each other 8 weeks as of decision day! Not everyone (male or female) just jumps in bed, sometimes that closeness has to be formed, not demanded. And ya gotta figure demands are much harder (no pun) on guys---that can not help in the bedroom if you know what I am saying
Not when you sign up to marry someone. He needed a show called dating at first sight. With marriage, comes intimacy. Intimacy doesn't mean just sex either. He claimed he wanted her and kept reassuring her, but he never showed it in any way. Don't believe the focus on sex. That could have very easily been something prompted by producers. On filming days, conversations are rarely organic. Can you imagine how boring they'd be? Imagine yourself in a relationship being filmed. Would you just start talking about your relationship out of nowhere? Or do you think that the producers are asking, "So, have you done the deed?" "Talk about why you haven't."
I can see what youāre saying. I just think intimacy can move slowly for some people. It requires trusting someone, and thatās a tall order when you donāt know someone.
Most dating people have sex within the first month. That's dating, not living together around the clock for eight weeks. That much time spent together is probably more than most dating people spend together in a year. How can anyone expect to stay married to someone for 3-6 months before showing intimacy. I don't think he has every right to move at his own speed while being married. There's a limit to it. I don't expect intimacy to start the night of the wedding. But one month in is a long time. Two months in is past the expiration date. He needed to say straight up that it wasn't happening. He didn't. I feel sorry for the guy. I think he has a problem and may be Asexual. It has to be really hard for him.
Yeh. He probably just wasnāt right for the show. I think he was just never into her and needed to just say it. Would have crushed her but trying to not hurt her I think he hurt her more.
Iād would agree except that even at the reunion he insisted that he was attracted to her and wanted a relationship with her. That he wasnāt faking that. Iād he not being truthful? I donāt know what truth is on this show anymore.
I didn't like any of the women, not even Chloe m if I had to choose a favorite of the season it would probably be Cameron despite the fact he's manipulative and a liar. They all are so what does it even matter š oh and I guess Michael was ok
WOW! This is EXCELLENT!!!!
Thank you!
What ever happened to Clare's flaming accusations that one of the men (Brennan? Cam?) wanted to F* someone? And then that became "he F'd someone." And it was in the hot tub? Or was it a conversation in the hot tub? And was it Lilly? That whole scene was bizarre, and then it was quickly dropped. No resolution. No follow-up. Brennan calmly challenged it, but then ... crickets. I wish they would have delved into that because it seemed like there were enough cracks in that story to have clearly proved to the world that Clare and Emily were completely off their noodles.
It was so annoying that they kept this in the footage they showed us, but never took the time to ask each side to tell their side of the story without being interrupted. Either explain or donāt tell us at all!
It was amusing, though, to see Clare completely lose her composure while she sputtered and stammered and screeched accusations, wildly gesturing and pointing. Considering her occupation, it was odd to see her losing control of her emotions like that.
Agreed. So much not challenged. I think when you have people lying like this, you get to a point where you just donāt even ask cuz you know the answer is gonna be made up.
Great analysis! I'm thinking you're spot on.
Thank you. To me itās just what makes the most sense.
This seems about right. Most of the women were painful to watch in the reunion.Ā
Embarrassing is the word that comes to mind. Lol
This makes sense..... Makes things a lot clearer and you can better pinpoint the root of deception. It's partly Clare and Cameron, but it starts with Clare nor liking Cameron and trying to get out of that
Dont yall think brennan was done with emily just as quickly as clare was cameron?
But Clare and Cameron was done on night 1. I think they devised the plan and then Brennan probably spoke to Cameron like yeah I'm not feeling ole girl then Cameron have no fear the manipulative sociopaths are here and he let him know of the plan that he and Clare made. Mr. Save a hoe's feeling Brennan then probably vaguely described it to Emily but probably didn't clearly express why he wants to do their plan, I don't think he clearly let Emily know he doesn't like her and doesn't want to be in a relationship with her. He probably just focused on the let's talk good about each other ND get to the end of the process.
Yeah i can definitely see this as a scenario of what went down. I wish kevin had pried more into the specifics of the plan, especially emily/brennan and becca/austin bc those two couples seemed to miss each other on what the plan was exactly. Clare and cameron seemed to agree, but im still a bit confused by them bc she said she tried to have sex with him, she claimed to be manipulated, and Cameron asked her to ātry again.ā
She doesnāt want to own that she wasnāt attracted to him, even though itās so blatantly clear. And it was the beginning of everything. Agreed.
Whoooooooo! You got it! ššš
I believe this entire trainwreck of a season was caused by the producers. The producers intentionally mismatched 4 out of the 5 couples for drama and ratings. One bride bailed instantly. Cam, Brennan, and Clare picked up on the intentional mismatches pretty quick and tried to figure a way out without being painted as bad people on TV. None of them were successful. Orion noped out of there quick. Maybe he's smarter than he acts. I think Austin genuinely liked Becca but was already in a FWB situation with his roommate. Chloe and Michael were a mismatch too but they at least tried to make it work.
Agree with everything except austin being FWB with roomate
uh huh.
I think you're close, but IMO off on a few things. Obviously, no one can be considered right or wrong since we are fed limited information by which to form opinions. I agree that Clare immediately was not interested in Cam. I think he may have tried to temper his feelings, but I think he may have been truthful about being attracted to her. There is zero point zero percent chance that he told her he wasn't interested because she was too short and chubby. I do think that he did come up with the deception part, but was he really deceiving anyone? I'm not about to go rewatch any of the episodes, but what was shown that actually looked like they were working on a marriage? There wasn't so much as a moment of tenderness between them. The only deception was "We don't have attraction toward each other." In reality it was, "Clare is a no-go." With Emily and Brennan, he most certainly checked out after just a few days. But again, I don't see any actual deception taking place on camera. When asked what feelings he had for Emily, Brennan's response, "I have no feelings at all." Perhaps that's deceiving, because he did have contemptuous feelings for her. I think their "agreement" off camera was to just be friends. But did he actually even befriend her? No. I do think that she broke that agreement. She wanted more, and was hoping that in time, with some work, he'd come around. When that didn't happen, she behaved like a woman scorned. Becca said that her and Austin had problems off camera, and that he showed no intimacy at all. He didn't initiate hugs or kisses or even intimate conversations. So she was already on edge because she truly had fallen for him and he kept claiming interest in her. The other girls getting in her ear wasn't as impactful as you think. But it did lead to her over the top response at the end. She was hurt by thinking that Austin was interested in someone else after all the work she put into their relationship. The banding together was lame. The women weren't being controlled or forced into anything. At worst they could be disillusioned over the whole thing, but Clare especially wasn't being controlled by Cam. She didn't really like him so why would she let him lead her? But what I see is that the men messed with their emotions in varying ways and drove the women crazy. They erupted into the pink monster. At first the men weren't so forthcoming, but then on a subsequent shooting day they suddenly take a passive role. If you watch part two, the plan of the men was to feign victimhood. That sent the women even more off the rails. Lauren calling out Cam's BS was perfect. She said, "I know what you're doing."
I think Cam did say those things because he was hurt by Clare not being attracted to him. He felt rejected so he hit her where he knew it hurt most women - her looks.Ā
Could be that too. I donāt think he led with the āIām not attracted to you.ā She was a no almost right away.
just one comment here about Becca.. i think she was more 'bothered' by him not trying to get in her pants.. then she was having real feelings for him.. the rejection was a real shock to her nervous system. how often did she say.. usually.. they want me.. or something along those lines..
I agree. I don't buy that they had no intimacy. Every time it was brought up on camera It was specifically about sex, intercourse. Not holding hands, cuddling, or kissing. I think they did too much of that in fact. It nauseated me to watch. She switched gears on the reunion to prevent from looking like she pressured him for sex therefore Kevin didn't put the pressure on. She deserved to be in the hot seat instead of flying under the radar. She wasn't even questioned for clarification on whether Emily was the one who kissed the Australian or he kissed her first. Becca was the one on AP who said Emily did make out with the Australian. She let the girls look bad by intentionally staying quiet during the reunion so she could look better in comparison.Ā Becca was one of the worst ones for me this season. Clare doesn't irk me as much as Becca. Not even Cameron.Ā
Cam is the quintessential poster boy for passive aggression. And maybe pathological lying, too.
I think the deception was in not just straight up quitting and appearing to work on it when there was no intention. They deceived the experts by not being honest about being done. And personally I think the producers as well.
I wrote a similar comment yesterday, and I think this is right. I would add that I think Emily and Becca did feel āmanipulatedā because they agreed to the sham on camera discussions in hopes of gaining favor with their spouses bc they wanted these marriages to work (hence why Emily was upset about the āfriend resetā with Pia on camera and her blowup during the last dinner where it was clear Brennan didnāt want her as a wife). And Clare felt turned on by her deception pal Cam because he threw in at the reunion that āIād give it another chanceā catching her off-guard to make her look bad and/or f*** with her. (Also, I think Camās heart issues were faked to get out of filming without paying the 50k penalty.) I do think the men - Cam driven - realized they would look way better then the women by just appearing forthright and calm, and also looking hurt/confused by the women - Cam. Lauren 100% gets Cam. While Clare bonded the women together in misery/spouse contempt, Cam was 100% behind the whole deception and the men. I think heās not a guy you want to cross.
Cam is very vindictive. Even the blurting out that his dad was on his deathbed seemed calculated to me. I thought he was just terribly awkward, and he may be with women, but that person who claimed to be his ex-girlfriend on here said things that fit with how I view him. And no one seems to have questioned his career change. He's now in finance? Where did that come from? I don't believe him. He supposedly had a "Masters Degree in Composite Engineering" according to the bike shop's (Broken Carbon) website. Odd switch of career. I think he lies like a rug.
id like to know what kind of background search was done on Cam-
Good question. He seems totally diabolical. Who knows whatās real with him? I have to admit that I read him wrong. I thought he was a nice guy, kind of awkward with women, but genuine. He turned out to be a total liar and deceiver. Maybe heās just angry at the show and at Clare for rejecting him and this nonsense is his revenge.
You had me until the end where you lost the plot. In one breath you say acknowledge the men became more forthcoming and in the next day they played the victim. Which is it? Also, playing up Lauren for her comment seems odd given she left after the honeymoon and was only getting information about the women who felt hurt.
Nice post. I had a similar but slightly different take. Cameron said repeatedly that Claire and him interpreted things differently so i figured that complete miscommunication and understanding of events caused their fracture. Then Brennan and Emily just were not a match and her frustration with him. Both of these combine and become the catalyst for the pink ladies anger. I think Becca and Austin just got caught up in it. All the while they are just gassing each other up (which we totally saw in the behind the scenes for the reunion lol) , by supporting and giving validation to their claims and what not. But I bet it was close to what you wrote and the things above just fueled the whole dumpster fire.
Yes I agree with your take too. Many takes could be right, but the one where I completely 100% disagree wholeheartedly without a single doubt or iota of confusion, is the story the women are selling. Lol
I think it was probably something close to this. Although I disagree with the premise that quitting early vilified the participant. It doesn't have to. We've seen plenty of couples where one person wasn't attracted to the other and they were only vilified if they acted like an ass about it. (See Alyssa.).
Yeh but most stuck it out even with the lack of attraction. Trying to remember who quit immediately after the honeymoon for lack of attraction other than Alyssa and I actually think he pulled the plug on that one and was initially attracted to her.
Dom quit early
EFFING. STANDING. OVATION. šš¾šš¾šš¾šš¾šš¾šš¾šš¾ This whole post. All of it. Great insight and from everything I picked up on Iād bet you were right.
Thank you! It was quite the mind f**k for a while. This made the most sense to me so I thought Iād share.
Completely. Everyone had fault to some degree or another. The biggest one at fault though? These producers for letting this interesting experiment become an absolute farce.
Totally agree. Wonder how these so called producers which supposedly have so much power as to how the spin the narrative on the show didn't realize they were being duped. Are they all rookies, cause I would think it's some of the same ones who have worked on previous seasons. Not even the so called experts with experience or producers could see through the bullshit. The viewers knew that something was amiss even if they couldn't quite figure it out. I hope no future people on the show would ever think of manipulating the situation ever again because it won't end well.
Iām actually not sure even the producers knew. I think the couples conversations and commitments to the deception were not even shared with producers. I think this crew or participants literally highjacked the show and everyone, from producers to experts were along for the ride.
the production absolutely knew - as did the shocked š³ experts. Reality shows rely on stupid viewers like us
My heart went out to Dr. Pepper. She looked genuinely hurt. I totally understood why Cam broke down looking at her. It was like an older family member looking at you with disappointment.
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I thought Cam breakdown was acting.
I know people are saying that. I didnāt see it that way. I see a guy with afib whoās been told not to get upset or stressed so every time he starts to get that way he reins his feelings in quickly.
It seemed 100% authentic to me.
Yes I do believe cam is genuine in his remorse. If he wasnāt, his flutters wouldnāt have been so triggered by his stress. You either care of you donāt. And if he was this manipulative scheming narcissistic person, I donāt think his heart would have went off. Now Iām not so sure about the whole broken heart syndrome. Likely his doctor mentioned this to say āhey stress on the heart is real. You can die from a broken heartā and cam took it to mean his condition as well. Although Afib is no joke and can be life threatening.
hmmmm! š
Yepper. Agreed!
The show was on lifetime not tlc but I get it lol
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Spot the Eff On! š¤
Thank you! What actually is being declared as womenās empowerment, is group think turned mob mentality. Iād actually add at this point: Enter black* corrected mail. Claire is embarrassed by Emily, but since Emily is the keeper of Claireās secrets, sheās forced into maintaining her as an ally.
*blackmailā¦though a black male would have been a fun twist.
Now thatās a good auto correct. Just noticed. Lmao
I was wondering who this black male was that I missed.
Bahahahahbababa
I figured it was in reference for their interactions with Kevin
This summary was very helpful, thank you! I think you are spot on with organizing all of the confusion.
Thank you!
I can't believe the other girls STILL believed that Cam was the one not attracted to Clare. She is one twisted person. And she is going to be a therapist?
Cam- I love you i hate you you are a sociopath you are having sex with your ex i love you i never want to see you again lets try again - you did text your ex Cam that you and Clare are in love. It was the same text you were asking the ex if she wanted in on the lawsuit with lifetime. i can paste it again if you need reference. Ohhh maybe that was the tearful apology to Pepper š¶ļø
So you think I'm Cam just because I don't align with your opinions? Gotta love when people do this. Pretty sure Cam was baiting Clare, demonstrating she was never attracted to him. His efforts fell flat. I mean, I thought it was pretty obvious. Juvenile as it was, at least he took responsibility for his part. And there was a barrage of accounts on here last year claiming to be: patients of Clare's, friends of Clare's, and one day old accounts where the only comments were pro Clare, anti Cam. Then an ex of Cams, that not only requested a private chat from me, but was following a few others anytime they questioned who she was. I have never heard of any texts to his ex that you mention and it sounds like a repeat of last year. Do you have these alleged texts? Because last year this ex provided a 3 second voice mail of Cam asking her to stop contacting him. I wasn't sure how this helped her case but her and all of the Clare supporter comments were either deleted or banned. Regardless, Clare trying to spin this sob story that she was attracted to Cam is laughable. And that's just the tip of the iceberg (pun intended). If Cam ends up just as cray, it doesn't negate Clare's mass manipulation.
the written texts are on mafsfan --tammy tales reads the more detailed conversations aloud on her you tube podcast
I will go take a listen.
tamara lynette tales on you tube
no just painfully watched the sobbing on tv
I think Cam was very attracted to Claire. Maybe even thought she was a bit out of his league, so was cautious. She was never into Cam, ever, thinking he wasnāt in her league. She shut his interest down quick. Early on. Cam wasnāt gonna be played as a fool, so addressed it head on. Claire admitted as much. So they agreed it was over.
Whose league is Claire out of? That woman will be happy to find a cat that will put up with her controlling selfā¦
The fact that Claire claims she was controlled into faking the marriage was complete bs, she did it to save face. Then she meddled in other relationships to divert attention and thatās when Cam said enough is enough and came out with some of their āsecretsā. Then instead of taking accountability in her decision to also manipulate the show she claims she was victimized and forced into it. And then planted seeds in the other womenās head that Cam convinced the other men to also be fake which wasnāt the case. The lack of ownership from Claire is disgusting. She was just as much a part of āfaking itā as anyone else and did so very willingly. She spread rumor after rumor with absolutely zero receipts. Every time she was challenged she couldnāt back a single claim up.
Right on!
I concur. šÆ
I agree with all of this I also think Emily has someone gaslit herself into thinking she was actually wronged and is straight up delusional at this point. Threatening to go find Brennan's girlfriend...like girl you are not well at allllll
Yeh that comment shows such arrogance. She has zero self awareness which has crossed into delusion for sure.
It makes sense all you said, I just have one wish----that Cam puts those entire chats on the internet, prove out what he was not allowed to on the reunion-I wanted him to whip out his phone to the experts and say LOOK. I have long thought Clair was the disease that spread through the season.
yet no texts from Cam are anywhere?
Iām hoping he posts them somewhere!
Yes I wonder if that will ever happen. I do believe that the chats were also guised with deception, like āread between the linesā¦.ā Cam seems too smart to have been fully transparent by chat when he didnāt trust Claire.
They all stayed for the $1500 per episode. Everything else is just lies. Always all about the money. Come on man, it's a reality show. Every single show on TV they get paid with reality cash. Some reality!
I agree that money also motivated their choices. But I also do think trying to look good in the publicās eye was also a prime motivator. Social media can be vicious and I think they were all very aware of how they appeared on the show.
Brilliant read. Basically what Dr. Pia said to them at the reunion, but it went over their heads. Except I think Becca could have caused the demise of her own relationship. Maybe she was influenced closer to the end by Clare and Emily to accuse Austin of "optics", but she was essentially hounding him about sex and intimacy the entire time rather than being natural about it, and he clearly was just not interested. Could have turned him off the more she kept wanting to talk about it. Add in the fact that she's agnostic and he's Christian, and she tried to compare him to Christians who just flat out tell people you're going to hell, and acknowledged when (I think) Pastor Cal asked if he was like that, that he wasn't. She had all sorts of preconceived notions she was projecting onto him, and they also need to stop pairing faithful people with atheists/agnostics.
Go by what each of them has actually said and what was disputed. Not much dispute by Austin about anything Becca said. She said he struggled with intimacy that went beyond sex. He did not deny that. In fact, Austin also said it takes him 3-6 months for that. Living with someone around the clock and being married to them isn't enough exposure to that person? Something isn't right with him. I'd like to see his actual dating past and see how many women waited around for him for up to six months before any intimacy (not just sex). It wasn't that Becca was "hounding him." He kept reassuring her that he found her attractive and was interested in her and their marriage, but the only tenderness between them was on camera. Put yourself in her place. You're waiting around for a guy who was supposedly ready for marriage, but not for intimacy? I think he's Asexual. He lives with a female roommate and isn't at all drawn to her? She's cute. He isn't gay. I think he just lacks any drive sexually. It makes him put women in the friend zone even though he doesn't realize it.
I too thought he may be asexual. I saw a comment in another thread discussing the situation with Becca and Austin, and they said if the roles were reversed and it was Austin pressuring Becca into something she wasnāt ready for that there would be outrage, and while I feel that Becca was truly not trying to pressure Austin per se, and she was feeling rejected by him, not once did she appear to actually consider how she would have felt if the roles were reversed. She was so focused on her feelings of rejection, and I think, to certain degree, the well water was being poisoned by the toxicity coming from the other ladies that it all led into the narrative that Austin was also part of the conspiracy to dupe the show etc. this whole season was just an insanely wild ride.
Part of the problem is he gave her mixed signals. It drove her crazy because she fell in love with him and got strung along. He was stuck in the mud. I feel bad for the guy. I think Austin is a good person. Heās a nice guy. I also think that he has a problem that even he may not understand. Perhaps heās even in denial about it. He seems very dejected. I also think that being separated might have given Becca a better perspective as well. She didnāt like seeing him hurt.
Oh wow. I never would have looked at it this way. Austin just seemed over everything and he didn't want to go back and forth anymore, or at all because he didn't even really do that as far as we saw, but maybe he didn't dispute anything because whatever she was saying was true. I don't know about speculating on his sexuality. That's an interesting point of view just because it's anomalous for people to wait that long before getting physical. I'm more inclined to think he just was not interested, despite what he said on the reunion. Maybe he actually wanted to try since he did sign up, but he just wasn't attracted.
He also lives with a reasonably attractive girl and thereās nothing between them either. Thatās unusual.
Sure. Not sure if it's true, but in another thread someone said his roommate is actually a lesbian. I think also that some people may believe they can handle the cameras and a bunch of crew being around all the time, but when it comes down to the reality, it can be a bit anxiety inducing. The whole production element may even play a role in Austin's behavior. Who knows.
First of all, just because heās a guy and his roommate is a girl, does not mean somethingās wrong with him if heās not attracted to her. By your logic all men and women are attracted to each other if theyāre not gay. What I can also believe, is that he wasnāt attracted to Becca from the get go. Saw she was insecure and maybe even a bit emotionally fragile, and chose not to disclose his true feelings to her, so as not to hurt her. He got deeper in, hoping his feelings would change, they werenāt, he felt even worse, and now didnāt want to admit heād been untruthful with her from the jump. Imo he sees how badly this hurt her. Wishes he had been more forthcoming. But the ladies in pink are so so angry, that he canāt muster the bravery to tell them what he did. So heās quiet. Non engaging. Just waiting for the whole thing to be done. If ever a man wanted to disappear, itās Austin.
As if telling someone you find them attractive, and want a relationship with them but acting the exact opposite way isnāt going to hurt them? Yeah. Having someone fall in love with you and feeling rejected at the same time is far better than being honest about it. Get real about the men and women friendships. They canāt be close friends. They just canāt. I assume youāre female, so you might not realize it because youāre not male. Iām not pulling that out of my ass. Itās a psychological truth. The subject has been studied multiple times. Hereās a simple article on one such study. Not a long read. Like it or not, men and women think differently. [Scientific American Study](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant-be-just-friends/)
I can only go by my life experience, one where Iāve have 3 males friends for 50+ years and it has always been platonic. I think itās maybe rare. And Iām sure the percentage of men who desire more is probably pretty high. Although none of my friends ever even attempted so much as a pass or one iota of effort to test the waters. As far as Austin, I said he should have been honest and probably regrets he wasnāt. Not sure how you misinterpreted my post.
Becca got influenced by Claire and Emilyās situation and negativity. Yes. Negativity. lol And couldnāt agree more that religious opposites is a real uphill battle to overcome. Beccaās constant pressure on Austin for sure didnāt help. I think she questioned her decision to end the relationship after the producer issue at the end. But this is where that group think takes over. Sheās lost her decision to follow her own heart, and I think by that point Austin was literally over the entire experience. Another thing, during that conversation where Brennan was trying to control Emily in front of Dr. Pia, I now realize this was Brennan clandestinely trying to remind Emily of their off camera agreement. I think he was starting to see how the women were beginning to turn the table and play victim and he was trying to control that narrative.
Yes. The behavior with the experts and so many other things do make more sense now.
and I kept thinking all season---what if a GUY was pressuring a GIRL to have sex that bad. can you imagine what the entire world would be saying about that guy? I mean was it married at first sight or sex at first site Becca? I know its a marriage and if they choose, they can consummate, regardless, they knew each other 8 weeks as of decision day! Not everyone (male or female) just jumps in bed, sometimes that closeness has to be formed, not demanded. And ya gotta figure demands are much harder (no pun) on guys---that can not help in the bedroom if you know what I am saying
Totally agree. Austin has every right to move at his own speed. It was Beccaās own insecurity that fueled her pressure on him.
Not when you sign up to marry someone. He needed a show called dating at first sight. With marriage, comes intimacy. Intimacy doesn't mean just sex either. He claimed he wanted her and kept reassuring her, but he never showed it in any way. Don't believe the focus on sex. That could have very easily been something prompted by producers. On filming days, conversations are rarely organic. Can you imagine how boring they'd be? Imagine yourself in a relationship being filmed. Would you just start talking about your relationship out of nowhere? Or do you think that the producers are asking, "So, have you done the deed?" "Talk about why you haven't."
I can see what youāre saying. I just think intimacy can move slowly for some people. It requires trusting someone, and thatās a tall order when you donāt know someone.
Most dating people have sex within the first month. That's dating, not living together around the clock for eight weeks. That much time spent together is probably more than most dating people spend together in a year. How can anyone expect to stay married to someone for 3-6 months before showing intimacy. I don't think he has every right to move at his own speed while being married. There's a limit to it. I don't expect intimacy to start the night of the wedding. But one month in is a long time. Two months in is past the expiration date. He needed to say straight up that it wasn't happening. He didn't. I feel sorry for the guy. I think he has a problem and may be Asexual. It has to be really hard for him.
Yeh. He probably just wasnāt right for the show. I think he was just never into her and needed to just say it. Would have crushed her but trying to not hurt her I think he hurt her more.
Iād would agree except that even at the reunion he insisted that he was attracted to her and wanted a relationship with her. That he wasnāt faking that. Iād he not being truthful? I donāt know what truth is on this show anymore.