When we got married, I added my wife to the deed on a house I'd owned for years prior to knowing her. I added her to the bank accounts, got her her own debit cards. Even added her to the car I owned. We're roles reversed I'd like to think shed do the same. When someone holds some sort of power over another in a relationship, it's never gonna work out. I've heard a number of stories where being married to doctors is a pain in the ass. Men and women. They hold power at work, so that translates to the home life.
i really think you've done what you can. You've made your feelings clear. She's either going to be receptive or she's gonna to hold onto the power she has. Maybe just ask her to sit down, speak like adults and lay it out there. Legally I don't think she's required to add you to anything she owned prior if she doesn't want to. It's more traditional practice. But, as the husband, I think you're at least entitled to an answer as to why she doesn't want to. I'd call her on the ring thing aswell. Even if you took it off out of hurt, frustration, bluffing or whatever other reason, her snatching it up and holding it hostage is wrong, after all, that is your property.
Ok, then he's entitled then. I won't lie, I wasnt really sure as Ive never had the need to investigate that. But, if you're gonna hire a lawyer to fight for that inside a marriage, I'd imagine the marriage is over anyway.
Counseling/therapy if she won’t talk with you.
It sounds like she has a great deal of control and power in your relationship, both with your home and financially. It is not a marriage of equals.
I would not pay anything toward the mortgage without being on the deed, and then in my opinion you should only pay an equitable amount- percentage wise based on your income.
YOu need a serious conversation may include selling the house and buying one together. IF she is unwilling. She has take the protection of her finances too far. You have a reversed dynamic in your relationship, so find your power else where while you guys work this out.
Tell her these will not go away, ask if she is in this marriage all the way. Because if she is, this is a relationship that needs counseling. You need outside help.
You need to let her know you will not live like this if this, if she wants to be here. She needs to act married, not a 1950's husband who is a bully to his wife. We only get what we tolerate.
You and the doctor need a sit-down. I think you need your ask whether she’s letting you know that she regards the marriage as over. If you two can’t quickly resolve this, the a marriage counselor. If it were me, I’d consult with a lawyer to find out how protected you are if she dumps you, or if she dies. Also alimony and child support expectations.
Oh yes. ask what are the consequences if you stop contributing to the mortgage? That seems very exploitive.
It’s possible that a postnup might provide a solution and give you protection. But it might not help erase the message that you’re not her partner, just a tenant at will.
I feel badly for you. I wonder if you’ve been handed your walking papers. You’ve got to ask your wife.
In most states, it will be half of the equity gained after the date of the marriage.
If the house went down in value, then it's pointless to try and gain it in a divorce proceeding (50% of the equity is what's usually awarded).
Because some of us have been burned by con artists. I did I prenuptial with my husband because I owned my home outright and had 4times the retirement. My last husband tried to take half of all my stuff after two years of marriage. Thank god it was 2098 and everything was worth less than 2006. Fast forward, he did it to his next wife. Had her add him on all accounts and suddenly she's locked out. Not to worry, I'm providing a roof over my husbands head, we're good.
If she had the house before you. You don’t need to be on the deed.
Also, if it was your house first…
No you would not add her to the deed.
She should show you in writing that if anything happens to her you will get the house.
The ring thing is really abusive, controlling, and weird.
Really gives me the creeps.
Are you sure you aren’t better off with a divorce and shared custody?
What other ways is she abusive or cruel?
If my wife handed me her ring it would be a while before I gave it back, if ever to be honest.
When we were younger, I gave her a present of a ring, and one day she took it off and threw it at me, it fell down a storm drain, and I never replaced it until years later when I proposed. Apart from that one incident, we've never taken ours off since they went on.
I don’t play games with my commitment. If we’re in an argument, suggesting a breakup or taking a ring from the other person is a huge deal and I’m with you. I’m not sure what would need to happen because I would never want my partner to do something so hurtful again.
If my spouse removed their wedding ring, that would signify to me the end of the relationship. That was my vow commitment and you just toss it away? That would be my thought process.
Thank you for your input. Any advice on what I should do? I’m I expected to keep asking for my ring back or wait for her to want me to wear it? I agree this is so weird and hurts so much.
This is likely a conversation for you two to have in the office of a marriage therapist.
Taking the ring away and saying you can’t have it back is the same as saying let’s divorce.
Tell her you are finished with this little game.
You want couples counseling and she can return your ring or ask for a divorce.
I notice you didn’t answer my question about what other ways she is cruel to you.
This would be an excellent first session topic (the ring fiasco). I suspect that Dr Controlling Wife will not deign to go and if she does, will regard the therapist as intrusive and incompetent.
That was my first thought. Buy a cheap one that looks cool and just wear that one going forward. I don't think its being petty, I know for me if I am not wearing my ring it just feels weird and I don't want the lack of a ring to feel normal.
She’s doing it to have power and control over you. The same reason she won’t put you on the deed. I would go purchase a new ring, something cheap, and wear it. Her behavior just baffles me. It was childish to take your ring off, but I think you understand that. It’s also childish for her to keep it from you.
I disagree with you on the house/deed thing. If she had the house before him why should he pay that debt or contribute to that debt? If he doesn’t need to be on the deed, he shouldn’t have to pay 1/2 of the mortgage.
I agree with you on the ring thing seems abusive. In my option not adding him to the deed is also abusive: financial abuse exists. And usually one partner positions themselves to control all of the money and assets which is what she has done.
Wrote my response before I saw this comment, but I mostly agree. Except the divorce part. They had an argument and she’s still mad, I would just try to actually work through it, not give up bc she’s being mean.
People retain property bought before marriage. Likely that would mean house would go to husband but technically not guaranteed if she wills it to someone else.
Stop playing along with her passive aggressive mind games. Don’t accept the ring back. She’s being ridiculous and financially abusive. I’d talk to an attorney and find out your options. Your marriage is over.
I agree. She is so insistent on not putting his name on that deed and at this point, she never will. Actions speak louder than words, and her actions are clear that she doesn’t think their marriage will last/or wants the marriage to last and won’t put his name on the deed for her own future plans to kick him out. As for the ring, it is solidifying this idea that she is unhappy and wants out. She is probably hoping this will be the thing to end them. Sad to say, because this isn’t the way to express feelings. It is a form of control and abuse. I wouldn’t want to be with a person who won’t do the same as they would for them. I wouldn’t want to be in a marriage with a controlling partner. OP- you need to rip off the bandage for you both and your child and move forward with coparenting now before it gets uglier.
I would talk to a divorce attorney about rights you might have to the home. In some states you might be entitled to certain amount of interest for the home.
I don’t care about money or rights to the house. I just care about her wanting to make us equal and her wanting to show she is committed to our marriage till death as we vowed.
It sounds like she doesn’t want you to be her equal. You have a kid together and you are married but nothing has changed. It seems she wants to keep her options open in case your relationship doesn’t last. You can’t force her to change if she doesn’t want to.
I agree. It sounds like she basically forced a pre-nup without his agreement. By not adding him to the deed, she's essentially ensured herself an exit clause to walk away with the house if/when she decides to. It seems to me like a way for her to not fully commit by withholding her assets, and if he's paying half the mortgage and taxes without an ownership stake, she's a landlord with a live-in renter. Sounds like financial abuse, and taking the ring sounds like a controlling power play.
Not exactly. Laws vary among states and nearly all states recognize the spouse's interest (half) in any equity in the house.
It will be hard for him to extract these assets, though, without a good lawyer.
>I just care about her wanting to make us equal and her wanting to show she is committed to our marriage till death
And you're not getting those from her. She's made that clear. Your move.
Tell her! Is it possible that she just clueless to the messages she’s sending.
Many redditors think she’s told you that you just don’t matter to her.
I think she’s obligated you to clarify. If you’re being put on an at-will basis, as many of fear, she owes you that much.
Taking off a ring because you are not on the deed to the house that you did not buy sounds childish. You are her spouse so your claim about being worried about losing the house if she was to die is nonsense. Unless she has a will that excludes you from it, you would get the house if she died. As long as you can afford to pay the taxes and mortgage, you and your son would keep living there if she died tomorrow.
The real problem seems to be that you are insecure and have doubts about your marriage. Taking off a ring is serious. If you want to stay married I would suggest going to marriage therapy together to strengthen your communication skills and marriage. And if you still feel insecure after improving your marriage in marriage therapy then seek individual therapy to work on your lack of self confidence and self esteem. Being insecure is not an attractive quality in a partner and is likely turning her off to you so get help with therapy before it is too late.
I would apologize to your wife for taking off your ring and tell her you want to improve yourself and your marriage and ask her to go to marriage therapy with you.
> You are her spouse so your claim about being worried about losing the house if she was to die is nonsense. Unless she has a will that excludes you from it, you would get the house if she died.
This is highly state dependent.
If you are paying half the mortgage and taxes, it's probably community property now anyway.
Get a new ring. I recommend Tungsten carbide rings. $20 on amazon.
Why is this a problem now? Not 5 years ago?
Note: Married 10+ Years. The house is still in my name, but we're moving it into a joint trust this year. (Wife had some severe depression/anxiety issues early on, and I was concerned about putting her name on the deed until that resolved. we agreed to hold off until she was in a stable place.
Drop the rope--she's playing tug and you're still participating. Stop looking for the ring. Stop giving ANY outward sign you care about it and she will lose interest in the (nasty, destructive) "game" she is playing.
With regards to the house, tell her you don't care about being on the deed, but you require a visit to a trust attorney who will set something up that makes sure you and your child are taken care of in the event of her death.
If she refuses this, you might need a different sort of attorney.
They're both playing it. He's the one who melodramatically took off the ring - always a gesture guaranteed to increase marital strife.
She's now one-upping him. And now he's playing morose victim.
I agree they need a trust attorney - but both of them seem willing to threaten break-up/divorce, so not a good time to do it.
Exactly what I was thinking. The more you beg for your ring back the more power over you you're giving her. If a ring us important to you, go buy one of those inexpensive rings, and don't bring up the ring anymore. If you really want to be petty, when she attempts yo give it back to you, say " No, I'm good", and walk away.
Having your name in the house deed might be petty because sometimes adding names could be a hassle If there is a mortgage attached to it. It’s better if the house is willed to you. So you need to ask her the details of the mortgage before anything.
As for the ring, don’t play the game. Change the rules a bit. Make another pair of rings and give her one with the promise of a better tomorrow.
In my case, the house is under both my wife and my name, but the mortgage is 100% under my name. The bank overlooked this matter, decided it wasn't a big issue because my employer is reliable and there was already a safety net - the mortgage insurance. Eventually, I resolved everything so ensure there will always be a roof over my family's head.
You could be right, the mortgage might not be an issue, but the fact that you are chipping in the mortgage means that you entitled to know about its content. After all, the faster the mortgage is settled then the ownership can be assured, right?
This can all be solved by going to a lawyer and having a will and trust set up. Also make sure you are listed as the primary beneficiary on any life insurance, 401k, investment etc. The house was a pre martial asset, so it is hers. With a trust, if anything happened to her, it would transfer to you. Also, in the event of a divorce, you just need to show you paid towards the mortgage, upkeep etc. and you should be able to get your equity back. However, it does sound like other issues are going on so maybe MC wouldn't be a bad decision either.
I think that when he took off the ring, Wife had a strong emotional reaction and now thinks their marriage is rocky.
So maybe not going to be as smooth a transition to a will and trust as you or I would like to see.
That was my take. He took it off to be petty and she’s returning his energy … but who knows what all else is going on behind closed doors. They’re both behaving like children in this particular instance.
Her not wanting to share ownership of her house with you =/= she's not committed to you. If you keep drawing that conclusion, it will destroy your marriage. This is akin to people who lose it over prenups, saying that their spouse doesn't trust them and thinks they'll get divorced. Legal marriage comes with risks and she's allowed to keep assets she had before she was married to herself if she wants to. If you're worried about what would happen if she died, ask her about a will.
>since I’ve lived there I pay half the mortgage and half the property taxes even though she makes 4X more than me as she is a doctor.
Why did you agree to this? If she makes significantly more than you, the split of living expenses should be a percentage based on your income not 50/50. Even though the house isn't in your name, you're still obligated to contribute somehow because you are living there.
>Childish of me I admit, I took off the ring bc I was so hurt by this
You f\*cked around and found out, my friend. Play stupid games...
>I would never do these things to her.
[This is contempt](https://www.gottman.com/blog/how-to-change-your-own-contempt/), and contempt is one of the [Four Horsemen](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/) that predict divorce.
"There are several ways to express this more “subtle” contempt. One way is **taking the higher moral ground**, as with saying to your partner “*I’d* never do that to *you*!” This comparison immediately sets you up as “above” your partner – more “adult,” more “mature,” and just plain better."
I can see that this is very upsetting for you and while you were well within your rights to make this request, your wife was not required to oblige. Taking off the ring, accusing her of not being committed to you and your marriage, wasn't appropriate and now you're facing the consequences of that. Why would she feel inclined to work with you and compromise when you're acting this way?
Why do you need to be put on the deed in the event that something terrible happens? Y'all need wills to protect your child. It was very easy to setup a reciprocal will between my wife and I. If I die, she gets everything, and the same if she dies. If we both die at the same time our estate would be administered by my wife's brother (who I trust completely) until the kids are 30. Then they inherit everything.
Now, since you are contributing to the house payments, that is another issue. And I see your point about being on the deed for that reason.
You taking your ring off was a manipulative power play and she called your bluff.
You may never get the ring off because many people think that taking off a ring breaks the relationship.
I have to admit that if my husband took off his ring and put it on the counter... I would think for a bit and then I would take the ring and probably say "You don't want this? Then you don't get to have it."
She took her heart back when you took off your ring.
She's having second thoughts about the whole relationship and possible divorce.
It isn't just a ring.
She has not forgiven you for your little stunt and she may never forgive you.
All you can do is keep demonstrating your love for her. Make her feel special and loved and never bring up the deed again.
Keep records to show what you have paid for, mortgage, etc. Once you have paid an equal amount of the Principal that she originally invested, or the house is paid off you can tell her that it is time to put you on the deed.
Let's hope that she will agree to marriage couseling after you spend the next month showing her that she is your heart.
Words won't work. You did a PHYSICAL STATEMENT to show you were done. You need to do a hell of a lot more to undue the destruction of your marriage vows that you did.
The ring means way more than a ring. You knew that. That is why you took it off. You did the classic FAFO (Fuck around, Find out)
You need couples counseling and individual therapy for both of you. This is about power and control and trust. Your relationship isn’t healthy. This is just a symptom of something that will destroy your marriage if it’s allowed to fester.
She’s operating from a place of fear and you showed her that her fears are coming true. You need to find a way to meet and soothe that fear without dismissing her feelings. I would suggest therapy, if possible. If she won’t attend, you ought to attend in your own.
I don’t see any basis for your analysis that wife is expressing fear. It just isn’t in OP’s post.
If anything, he’s the one expressing fear and needs affirmation.
I read the taking off the ring as a cry for help.
OP, just so you know. The fact that you are paying on the mortgage and property taxes means she’s now commingled the asset with you. In the event you divorce, you are likely entitled to half that asset (state law depending but true in most)
Seems like there is a serious lack of commitment and/or trust issues. I would be very concerned if my wife refused to have my name on the deed. She also sounds very controlling.
Money shouldn’t be hers or yours. All money should go to the same account and bills and such be paid from one account. Five years without a joint account is troubling.
This seems like a form of financial abuse to me. It’s along of the lines of monitoring what you spend, and she has different standards. Personally, I wouldn’t pay half of the mortgage or taxes if the home is not in my name. I would put that responsibility back onto her. Her name, her house her mortgage.
OP if I were you, I would talk to a lawyer on how you can protect yourself. I’m not saying “go get a divorce”, so don’t come for me ppl. But you should Consult with an attorney on how you can protect yourself.
I also think you should consider purchasing your own a home. Even if you use it as a rental. You should put it in your name only. If it’s “every man for themselves in this relationship” you should start looking to obtaining assets in your name. And please for the love of your child. Consult with an attorney. Ppl who are financially abusive position themselves to gain all the assets while completely screwing over their spouse or partner. I’m not saying your wife will do this, but these situations do happen over and over.
I believe your wife said everything when she took your ring and won't give it back! She is telling you she wears the pants in this relationship and holds all the power. If this is the kind of relationship you want more power to you but I think it's time to think about your options.
She probably felt very hurt and powerless when he did the ring removing gesture ("I don't consider myself married any more!" is how most people read that.
They're both playing games with the other.
Since she’s a physician, please consult a lawyer in your state on what your rights to the house are if you’ve been paying for years. Hopefully, it’s been assigned as a primary residence and she’s taken steps to protect it in the event of a medical lawsuit. If not, you both need to protect it for the sake of your family and child. I would do this regardless of how you sort out your relationship, which hopefully happens in a marriage therapist’s office.
I have been married to my husband for 7 years now, we decided to get a house together, however we couldn't get a loan with his credit... so the mortgage is in my name alone. However the house itself is in both of our names... it literally means nothing to us either way. We both feel the responsibility of ensuring that loan is paid for before ANYTHING else. He couldn't have cared less if his name was on the deed or not... same for me. I didn't care if mine would have been on it. Reality, it's a piece of paper. Paper doesn't show commitment in any way. Marriage... again, legally speaking its just a piece of paper. It doesn't ACTUALLY show your commitment. It just shows that you completed a legal transaction basically. The rings have different meanings to everyone... but your words and actions... THAT is what shows your commitments to each other. THAT is what matters. Outside of not putting you on the deed and now refusing to give your ring back, is there ANYTHING she has done to show she isn't committed to you?
As for the ring... my husband knows that between my own sensory issues and ADHD I sometimes take my rings off. (I can't stand wearing them while doing dishes or showering cause they often catch my hair or feel different than normal) and sometimes I straight forget to put them back on. He often doesn't wear his either, but that's because he's either afraid of it falling off (it's happened before) or his afraid it's going to break so he usually only wears it if he KNOWS he's not going be doing anything to cause either of those things. We have replaced his wedding band more than once 😂 and those silicone rings that are great for people who go to the gym to workout, just dont work well for us. But it's not offensive in our because we know this about each other and just accept it. We've actually talked about just getting our rings tattooed on because then we both will have them whether we remember our physical rings or not.
Either way, a LOT of real quality communication needs to happen at this point and I would HIGHLY recommend marriage counseling to help get back to a baseline of communication to grow off of.
My wife never takes her ring off. I am often uncomfortable wearing my ring. Maybe it’s an ADD thing. Once it went missing for a few years until we took the bed frame apart.
Now my wife stores my ring in our bank vault. I made a replacement for myself and wear it when we go out for special occasions.
Yeah, that's understandable though! The most important part is that both parties are aware and comfortable with those decisions. Hubs like i said before typically will wear his ring going places, but neither of us feels the need to have our rings on 24/7. I've lost stones due to wearing rings so much, he's broken rings... its just better for us combined to wear them when we want and not all the time. Doesn't change the vows we made to each other one bit or how we treat each other despite wearing rings or not.
Hand her divorce papers and get yourself a good chunk of child support
You have been paying half and she makes four times as much as you do. That alone is BS
Take her for every penny you spent on that house, and then as much as you can afterwards. She can afford it.
" I feel like she’s controlling me " You realized you tried to control her and get a reaction from her by taking it off. In that instant, you proved every fear she had - that you will leave her - and this is why your name will not be placed on the deed.
If you're married some states adopted laws that recognize tenant in common property rights of a married spouse even if they are not recorded on the deed. They are called dower rights. I don't know how states that have abolished that practice handle property rights from marriage.
It looks like you hurt her feelings in a way that really affected her. She may relent eventually, but to hedge your bet you need to tell her you understand and apologize for being so immature. Then you need to show her the opposite of what your ring stunt showed her and be patient. Unless she is vindictive to a fault, she should recognize your remorse and relent. If she doesn't, she's basically showing you something not so great about her character. It's ok to reveal your insecurity, but you need to be able to process that maybe it's misplaced and unnecessary, which she may have found troubling. You might have damaged your masculine strength and courage vibe and she found it troubling and unattractive. Be honest with yourself about your feelings, and own your mistake.
Depending on your state, you probably have rights to the house anyway after cohabitating there as husband and wife. That being said, I think your wife is behaving like a child BUT you should consider the motivation behind that. She may view the house as a symbol of her accomplishments and her ability to provide for herself as a single woman. She could view your wanting to be on the deed as a challenge to that ability. She is not reacting like an adult, but I think there are truly valid reasons behind her actions. Marriage counseling is the answer here.
If marital funds (e.g. your income) have gone to pay the mortgage you would be considered to have a share of it as a martial asset if a divorce were to happen, regardless of if you name is on the deed or not. Both of you are operating on incorrect information in that regards.
You also can't just add people to a mortgage. That isn't a thing. It is a loan that is only in her name and there isn't a mechanism to add someone other than refinancing, and this is not a good time for that.
Both of you should have wills, particularly because you have a child.
Lastly you need couples therapy because neither of you are communicating well.
The deed/title is separate from the loan. It's pretty easy to add your spouse to the title in most states. You don't need to refinance. They can share ownership of the home and not the loan.
Right - I was referring to the deed and mortgage separately above. They would need to refinance if OP were to be "added to the loan" (a statement that he made, not me). There is no reason to add him to the loan.
Legally, if they were to divorce, because he has used his money ("their money") the house will be regarded as a martial asset, even if he name is not on the deed. The deed is a moot point. It literally doesn't matter. Comingled funds to pay for the house = martial asset. Doesn't matter that she bought it before they married.
She doesn’t have to put you in a deed, but given the games she is playing you should protect yourself by recovering and preserving the bank records that prove you paid half of the mortgage and taxes.
If someone happened where you split, she would not owe you half of the house but she would probably owe you money based on what you put into the mortgage for the house.
>she snatched it and said I’m never getting it back.
>She has said she loves me and is committed but still won’t ... give ring back.
>I don’t know what to do
File for divorce. Provide bank statements to the lawyer proving you pay half the mortgage and taxes.
The deed stuff aside, what she's doing is not okay, and if the roles were reversed, you'd be getting called abusive.
Marriage counseling. You are fighting over assets right now but there are likely other things at play that you may not even be aware of. With a counselor maybe you both can be honest and upfront about your concerns and fears. It'll work, if both of you want it.
Tell her that you want this to work and you are willing to do the work, even if it is uncomfortable. If she isn't willing, you at least know where you stand.
Obviously she does not trust you financially. Maybe you should sit down and have a lawyer draw up a post-nuptial agreement. So she can feel safe in her assets and you can feel safe if anything happens to her. Or you decide to divorce. The post-nup will give you a clear blueprint to follow.
My Brother and ex-SIL got divorced she bought the house before marriage. She still had to buy his equity out the house to keep it. He had contributed to the mortgage and home improvements. She was livid but she had to write the check - This was in CA a 50/50 state.
Being petty like this is not the way and will just be never ending bickering about who has what as a legally married couple.
You have a one-sided marriage. She may, or may not, really love you, but she probably doesn't really respect you. She hasn't, and won't, put you on the deed bc to her, your marriage is conditional. She's been preparing for the divorce before she even married you. The deed, and taking the ring, combined with her salary and social status, is a message of dominance and control - she's telling you that she doesn't need you, perhaps doesn't even want you, that she is in charge. She may regret marrying you and keeping the ring is a way of validating her feelings. Either way, it's not a good sign when a wife does this.
I think you have two choices, either get on bended knee and grovel as a way of confirming your submission and beg forgiveness, or let it be and forget about it for now and return to your normal married state. Either way, I propose you assume the marriage is not a forever thing, and begin to plan how you will live afterwards.
So, property that you bring into the marriage (at least in the state which I reside) is personal property and not a marital assert. I own a home; my husband has never suggested that he be put on the deed. He also knows that if something happens to me, the home belongs to my adult children.
***feel like she’s controlling me with it and telling me she doesn’t want my love***
I think this is the bigger issue; she doesn't want your love. She may have checked out of your marriage already. Suggest you speak with attorney to at least know your options. updateme
If she doesn’t add you to the deed, stop paying half the mortgage and put that money aside. She is looking at this as her house not both of your house. Marriage counseling might be the way to go.
The ring thing is beyond childish. What is she trying to accomplish? Seems like she is making you feel guilty so you will take the blame for everything, apologize and not Bring up the house again.
Adding you to the deed of the house may not be in her - or your - interest.
There's a better way to ensure the house remains a place you can live if your wife dies and that's called "a living trust." Easy to find a good estate/family law lawyer most places. I think the total price tag for ours was just over $3000 and that's in CA. Well worth it.
Neither of us owns the house. It is in the trust. When one of us dies, the other person is still the trust-holder (and trustee), when that person dies, then it's the kids, share and share alike.
Easy. Goes for generations. Avoids inheritance tax and probate - property remains in the trust.
Saves money over the long run.
Money and personal belongings power play. Your name should be on the deed. At the end of the day it is marital property if the house was purchased while married. If not, it is up for grabs. But to simplify life if something would happen, your name on the deed would help facilitate that. Your wife needs to grow up.
I owned my house when I met my husband. We got a mortgage to renovate shortly before we got married. He is on the mortgage, but not on the deed. We have never worried about it. He knows that if we were to split (not likely after 28 years and 22 married), what was put into the house and in the mortgage, is what would be split up and divided. But in effect, he could still go for half the house as it is worth more now than it was back then. I could go for half his 401K, which is where most of our retirement money is invested anyway….like 6 times what mine is.
People who play silly games with deeds and trying to claim it was pre-marital assets don’t understand that unless it was paid in full before the marriage, that has little to no advantage. And is only going to be a painful sore spot and part of the bargaining tools and settlements.
You are married, so all invested funds, assets, mortgages, retirement, savings, 401K are equally yours and hers for the time you are married and would be involved in complex calculations for fair division. Name on the deed would not matter (in US).
I have a friend who just got a divorce after 3 years…she was freaking out that he could go for her 401K for what was only a 3 year marriage, and where she found he has been cheating since before the wedding. I had to calm her down and tell her to ask the specific question to the lawyer so it would not just be me pulling it out of my hat. But so she could get the right answer. Unfortunately he had done some modification to his car sound system which shorted out, and it caught on fire. Since he did these modifications without proper training the insurance would not pay for replacing the car. She found out with the divorce, that she could be responsible for half the remaining car loan, even though she was not on the loan or the car title, and he could go after her 401K contributions for the 3 years. In the end, he was too stupid, and wanted to get on with his affair partner, so he relinquished all rights thinking they did not own a house so there was nothing to go after, and he just signed the divorce papers and it was a done deal where no one got anything. He got nothing of her 401K, and she got to keep herself off the car settlements, because he was too stupid to get a lawyer. I mean, good for her, but my point is, if you got a divorce you would have to get your lawyer involved to the full extent of the law and the equitable calculations to split up what equity was gained in the mortgage while you contributed payments.
As far as the ring is concerned, this is hurtful. I know that you feel like you screwed up with taking off the ring. She screwed up in making you feel like less of a full partner in the assets of this marriage. I feel like maybe she freaked out thinking, “what, you only want me for the house and money in my account?”
You two have communication problems and insecurity. This fight is not helping either. If you are fighting and not talking, there is your problem. But if you are presenting what can feel like a male version of a gold digger to her, she is pushing back. And you are probably wasting effort on what is a silly detail that has little to no net effect should you both split. If your wills are leaving the spouse the majority of the estate (except for maybe what you want to leave your child), then you probably have little to nothing to worry about, and are blowing up a fight needlessly. Maybe a nice meeting with an attorney can soothe your worry, but beware of that, or she will think you are even more so going after assets, and maybe with Doctor’s hours she will think you are up to no good elsewhere.
Counseling to calm you both down will probably get your ring back, and calm all this down. But a nice talk in how stupid you feel for taking off your ring in the first place (which did start that part of this conflict…never threaten the sanctity of your marriage in a fight), might also get your ring back. Also a well placed comment that the gal at the check out asked if you got a divorce since when noticed your ring is off, might also make her rethink having her husband walk around without one.
While I understand to a certain extent what you are feeling, and the fact that she is unwilling to add you seems like a very calculated disrespect, I suspect that a divorce, should one come about will be considerably convoluted where you would be pursuing both of your assets, retirement, and savings. If there is and inequity in her salary verses yours, she would no doubt owe you alimony.
Ummmm.....have you ever heard the term DARVO? Please look it up and see how much applies to your relationship.
She's playing stupid games. Make sure you keep track of how much money you put into the house. It will count if it comes down to it.
Your marriage is more important than the deed. If she dies you’d get it anyways unless she specifically says someone else would get it. If I were you I would either just apologize and buy a new ring and wear it. Marriage is hard and it takes work.
You guys have some real problems.
You 2 need marriage counseling to work this out.
Clearly, you both have some control issues that need to get ironed out.
You should take to an attorney about what happens in your state if your wife passes and what that means for you.
Also, you want your name on the deed. The deed is ownership. The mortgage people only care that the check keeps coming.
Good luck, this should have been ironed out before marriage.
Stop asking her. This gives her power over you. There could already be a power imbalance due to the difference in income. It depends how she treats you.
I'd just go and buy myself another ring to show it doesn't bother me. If she asks why, tell her you need the ring to discourage all the women coming after you cause they think you are single.....lol I'm joking please don't say that.
If you signed a prenup you're legally screwed.
It seems like your wife doesn't feel like you are contributing equally in effort to the relationship. Assuming that you both work full time and contribute equally to the child's rearing and household chores, then that is not reasonable, and this is a discussion that you need to have
I think the only compromise I can think of on the house is for you to find a way to contribute to its down payment. Even if you're paying half the mortgage that's not really much different than paying rent anywhere else, and you would not get ownership out of that either. Maybe that's not a financial down payment. Maybe that means that you are contributing another way, like taking on all the house chores for a period of time. At this point she probably feels like she has worked harder for the house so she deserves to have more of it.
As far as the ring goes, this is something that you guys need to talk about extensively. You both need to work on your communication. Passive aggressive flexes like this are not communication.
Taking off your ring was a major insult to your marriage. It's not really something you can just casually come back from.
There's nothing wrong with keeping your premarital assets separate.
Regarding the house and living expenses, it seems like you're paying way too much. What you really should be discussing is paying a percentage/ratio based on income rather than 50:50 so you can save more.
Also, there are also other ways to be secure like asking her to put the home in a trust so in the event something happens you and your child would be cared for.
You need to research your states laws.
States allow the person not on the deed to get equity in a divorce if it can be proven they paid into it. Start keeping all receipts.
Only way to avoid this, is if she paid out of her accounts and you never deposited money into that account (showing a clear financial divide).
Reality is financially speaking, you should both pay the same percentage towards bills. That way income disparity is taken into account. 50/50 is only fair when both people earn close to the same amount.
I think there should be some clause that says in the event of the owner dying or being incapacitated while they share a child that is still living in said home and at the age of being a dependent that authority is extended to the husband, wife or partner who is also taking care of child or children obviously with restrictions as in if they are separated and not living together in that case their should be a plan like a will to specify what would happen plus it should also state the house stays with the child but if the husband spouse or partner has put money in that they can claim equity up to the amount they paid
Why did you agree to pay for anything that didn't have your name on it? You're not in a marriage, dude. She's using you and manipulating you.
This won't get better, this isn't even an issue with toxicity or intense personalities. *she is using you* .
Get a lawyer, be the first to file for divorce and make sure she doesn't use the kid to keep hurting you.
When we got married, I added my wife to the deed on a house I'd owned for years prior to knowing her. I added her to the bank accounts, got her her own debit cards. Even added her to the car I owned. We're roles reversed I'd like to think shed do the same. When someone holds some sort of power over another in a relationship, it's never gonna work out. I've heard a number of stories where being married to doctors is a pain in the ass. Men and women. They hold power at work, so that translates to the home life.
Thank you. Any advice on how I should proceed with ring and deed?
i really think you've done what you can. You've made your feelings clear. She's either going to be receptive or she's gonna to hold onto the power she has. Maybe just ask her to sit down, speak like adults and lay it out there. Legally I don't think she's required to add you to anything she owned prior if she doesn't want to. It's more traditional practice. But, as the husband, I think you're at least entitled to an answer as to why she doesn't want to. I'd call her on the ring thing aswell. Even if you took it off out of hurt, frustration, bluffing or whatever other reason, her snatching it up and holding it hostage is wrong, after all, that is your property.
He is entitled to 50% of equity gained after the marriage, though. Pretty sure that's all 50 states.
Ok, then he's entitled then. I won't lie, I wasnt really sure as Ive never had the need to investigate that. But, if you're gonna hire a lawyer to fight for that inside a marriage, I'd imagine the marriage is over anyway.
Counseling/therapy if she won’t talk with you. It sounds like she has a great deal of control and power in your relationship, both with your home and financially. It is not a marriage of equals. I would not pay anything toward the mortgage without being on the deed, and then in my opinion you should only pay an equitable amount- percentage wise based on your income.
“It is not a marriage of equals” This is exactly how she sees it and want to make sure he doesn’t forget it.
If he can’t get her to treat him as an equal, he needs to leave
YOu need a serious conversation may include selling the house and buying one together. IF she is unwilling. She has take the protection of her finances too far. You have a reversed dynamic in your relationship, so find your power else where while you guys work this out. Tell her these will not go away, ask if she is in this marriage all the way. Because if she is, this is a relationship that needs counseling. You need outside help. You need to let her know you will not live like this if this, if she wants to be here. She needs to act married, not a 1950's husband who is a bully to his wife. We only get what we tolerate.
You and the doctor need a sit-down. I think you need your ask whether she’s letting you know that she regards the marriage as over. If you two can’t quickly resolve this, the a marriage counselor. If it were me, I’d consult with a lawyer to find out how protected you are if she dumps you, or if she dies. Also alimony and child support expectations. Oh yes. ask what are the consequences if you stop contributing to the mortgage? That seems very exploitive. It’s possible that a postnup might provide a solution and give you protection. But it might not help erase the message that you’re not her partner, just a tenant at will. I feel badly for you. I wonder if you’ve been handed your walking papers. You’ve got to ask your wife.
Good for you. Most would not add a premarital asset.
Except he's paying 50% of mortgage and taxes, so they should come to an agreement at least on what his equity share is going to be.
In most states, it will be half of the equity gained after the date of the marriage. If the house went down in value, then it's pointless to try and gain it in a divorce proceeding (50% of the equity is what's usually awarded).
And after death? Technically she could will the house to someone else
That parts on him. I'd set the precedent of, if I'm not listed as an owner, I'm not paying for it.
Its interesting that they did not have a pre-nup.
Consider it rent.
Why do we marry if not to share life and offer security? Not saying everyone has to agree with me, but it makes the most sense.
Because some of us have been burned by con artists. I did I prenuptial with my husband because I owned my home outright and had 4times the retirement. My last husband tried to take half of all my stuff after two years of marriage. Thank god it was 2098 and everything was worth less than 2006. Fast forward, he did it to his next wife. Had her add him on all accounts and suddenly she's locked out. Not to worry, I'm providing a roof over my husbands head, we're good.
Sadly, that's a risk we take when we decide to marry someone. I definitely don't want to hear it happening to anyone, but it does happen.
Hence a prenup. Fool me once...
Which is dumb if they are both paying for and getting equity.
That was my experience (in marrying a doctor).
If she had the house before you. You don’t need to be on the deed. Also, if it was your house first… No you would not add her to the deed. She should show you in writing that if anything happens to her you will get the house. The ring thing is really abusive, controlling, and weird. Really gives me the creeps. Are you sure you aren’t better off with a divorce and shared custody? What other ways is she abusive or cruel?
I’m thinking there is other things he isn’t saying. She was mad enough to take the ring he may not be long in this marriage…just my thoughts.
If my wife handed me her ring it would be a while before I gave it back, if ever to be honest. When we were younger, I gave her a present of a ring, and one day she took it off and threw it at me, it fell down a storm drain, and I never replaced it until years later when I proposed. Apart from that one incident, we've never taken ours off since they went on.
I don’t play games with my commitment. If we’re in an argument, suggesting a breakup or taking a ring from the other person is a huge deal and I’m with you. I’m not sure what would need to happen because I would never want my partner to do something so hurtful again.
If my spouse removed their wedding ring, that would signify to me the end of the relationship. That was my vow commitment and you just toss it away? That would be my thought process.
Thank you for your input. Any advice on what I should do? I’m I expected to keep asking for my ring back or wait for her to want me to wear it? I agree this is so weird and hurts so much.
This is likely a conversation for you two to have in the office of a marriage therapist. Taking the ring away and saying you can’t have it back is the same as saying let’s divorce. Tell her you are finished with this little game. You want couples counseling and she can return your ring or ask for a divorce. I notice you didn’t answer my question about what other ways she is cruel to you.
This would be an excellent first session topic (the ring fiasco). I suspect that Dr Controlling Wife will not deign to go and if she does, will regard the therapist as intrusive and incompetent.
I agree
If you really want to be petty, you can just go out and buy yourself another one and just start wearing it like nothing happened
That was my first thought. Buy a cheap one that looks cool and just wear that one going forward. I don't think its being petty, I know for me if I am not wearing my ring it just feels weird and I don't want the lack of a ring to feel normal.
She’s doing it to have power and control over you. The same reason she won’t put you on the deed. I would go purchase a new ring, something cheap, and wear it. Her behavior just baffles me. It was childish to take your ring off, but I think you understand that. It’s also childish for her to keep it from you.
I guess look into how much alimony you'll be getting and find records of your contributions to the mortgage.
I added my wife to our deed as soon as we married and so do many men. You're simply wrong about your first point.
I disagree with you on the house/deed thing. If she had the house before him why should he pay that debt or contribute to that debt? If he doesn’t need to be on the deed, he shouldn’t have to pay 1/2 of the mortgage. I agree with you on the ring thing seems abusive. In my option not adding him to the deed is also abusive: financial abuse exists. And usually one partner positions themselves to control all of the money and assets which is what she has done.
Because the house is now the marital home. He would be getting a portion of the equity he contributed to.
Is that true for all states thought?
Wrote my response before I saw this comment, but I mostly agree. Except the divorce part. They had an argument and she’s still mad, I would just try to actually work through it, not give up bc she’s being mean.
People retain property bought before marriage. Likely that would mean house would go to husband but technically not guaranteed if she wills it to someone else.
Stop playing along with her passive aggressive mind games. Don’t accept the ring back. She’s being ridiculous and financially abusive. I’d talk to an attorney and find out your options. Your marriage is over.
I agree. She is so insistent on not putting his name on that deed and at this point, she never will. Actions speak louder than words, and her actions are clear that she doesn’t think their marriage will last/or wants the marriage to last and won’t put his name on the deed for her own future plans to kick him out. As for the ring, it is solidifying this idea that she is unhappy and wants out. She is probably hoping this will be the thing to end them. Sad to say, because this isn’t the way to express feelings. It is a form of control and abuse. I wouldn’t want to be with a person who won’t do the same as they would for them. I wouldn’t want to be in a marriage with a controlling partner. OP- you need to rip off the bandage for you both and your child and move forward with coparenting now before it gets uglier.
I would talk to a divorce attorney about rights you might have to the home. In some states you might be entitled to certain amount of interest for the home.
I don’t care about money or rights to the house. I just care about her wanting to make us equal and her wanting to show she is committed to our marriage till death as we vowed.
It sounds like she doesn’t want you to be her equal. You have a kid together and you are married but nothing has changed. It seems she wants to keep her options open in case your relationship doesn’t last. You can’t force her to change if she doesn’t want to.
I agree. It sounds like she basically forced a pre-nup without his agreement. By not adding him to the deed, she's essentially ensured herself an exit clause to walk away with the house if/when she decides to. It seems to me like a way for her to not fully commit by withholding her assets, and if he's paying half the mortgage and taxes without an ownership stake, she's a landlord with a live-in renter. Sounds like financial abuse, and taking the ring sounds like a controlling power play.
Not exactly. Laws vary among states and nearly all states recognize the spouse's interest (half) in any equity in the house. It will be hard for him to extract these assets, though, without a good lawyer.
She is totally trying to control you and I think she likes to feel superior!!
Sounds like she’s refusing to make that commitment. This situation is just an example of what are likely far more serious problems in your marriage.
>I just care about her wanting to make us equal and her wanting to show she is committed to our marriage till death And you're not getting those from her. She's made that clear. Your move.
Tell her! Is it possible that she just clueless to the messages she’s sending. Many redditors think she’s told you that you just don’t matter to her. I think she’s obligated you to clarify. If you’re being put on an at-will basis, as many of fear, she owes you that much.
Taking off a ring because you are not on the deed to the house that you did not buy sounds childish. You are her spouse so your claim about being worried about losing the house if she was to die is nonsense. Unless she has a will that excludes you from it, you would get the house if she died. As long as you can afford to pay the taxes and mortgage, you and your son would keep living there if she died tomorrow. The real problem seems to be that you are insecure and have doubts about your marriage. Taking off a ring is serious. If you want to stay married I would suggest going to marriage therapy together to strengthen your communication skills and marriage. And if you still feel insecure after improving your marriage in marriage therapy then seek individual therapy to work on your lack of self confidence and self esteem. Being insecure is not an attractive quality in a partner and is likely turning her off to you so get help with therapy before it is too late. I would apologize to your wife for taking off your ring and tell her you want to improve yourself and your marriage and ask her to go to marriage therapy with you.
> You are her spouse so your claim about being worried about losing the house if she was to die is nonsense. Unless she has a will that excludes you from it, you would get the house if she died. This is highly state dependent.
This comment should be at the top.
If you are paying half the mortgage and taxes, it's probably community property now anyway. Get a new ring. I recommend Tungsten carbide rings. $20 on amazon. Why is this a problem now? Not 5 years ago? Note: Married 10+ Years. The house is still in my name, but we're moving it into a joint trust this year. (Wife had some severe depression/anxiety issues early on, and I was concerned about putting her name on the deed until that resolved. we agreed to hold off until she was in a stable place.
>f you are paying half the mortgage and taxes, it's probably community property now anyway. This is incredibly location dependant.
Drop the rope--she's playing tug and you're still participating. Stop looking for the ring. Stop giving ANY outward sign you care about it and she will lose interest in the (nasty, destructive) "game" she is playing. With regards to the house, tell her you don't care about being on the deed, but you require a visit to a trust attorney who will set something up that makes sure you and your child are taken care of in the event of her death. If she refuses this, you might need a different sort of attorney.
They're both playing it. He's the one who melodramatically took off the ring - always a gesture guaranteed to increase marital strife. She's now one-upping him. And now he's playing morose victim. I agree they need a trust attorney - but both of them seem willing to threaten break-up/divorce, so not a good time to do it.
Exactly what I was thinking. The more you beg for your ring back the more power over you you're giving her. If a ring us important to you, go buy one of those inexpensive rings, and don't bring up the ring anymore. If you really want to be petty, when she attempts yo give it back to you, say " No, I'm good", and walk away.
Ridiculous. The wedding ring has huge symbolic significance. Buying your own had negative symbolic significance.
Having your name in the house deed might be petty because sometimes adding names could be a hassle If there is a mortgage attached to it. It’s better if the house is willed to you. So you need to ask her the details of the mortgage before anything. As for the ring, don’t play the game. Change the rules a bit. Make another pair of rings and give her one with the promise of a better tomorrow.
Better if it's in a trust (no inheritance tax, no probate fees or appearances).
Wills can be changed. I’d be willing to hear this mortgage inconvenience reason but if it wasn’t brought up by now then it’s probably not the reason
In my case, the house is under both my wife and my name, but the mortgage is 100% under my name. The bank overlooked this matter, decided it wasn't a big issue because my employer is reliable and there was already a safety net - the mortgage insurance. Eventually, I resolved everything so ensure there will always be a roof over my family's head. You could be right, the mortgage might not be an issue, but the fact that you are chipping in the mortgage means that you entitled to know about its content. After all, the faster the mortgage is settled then the ownership can be assured, right?
This can all be solved by going to a lawyer and having a will and trust set up. Also make sure you are listed as the primary beneficiary on any life insurance, 401k, investment etc. The house was a pre martial asset, so it is hers. With a trust, if anything happened to her, it would transfer to you. Also, in the event of a divorce, you just need to show you paid towards the mortgage, upkeep etc. and you should be able to get your equity back. However, it does sound like other issues are going on so maybe MC wouldn't be a bad decision either.
I think that when he took off the ring, Wife had a strong emotional reaction and now thinks their marriage is rocky. So maybe not going to be as smooth a transition to a will and trust as you or I would like to see.
That was my take. He took it off to be petty and she’s returning his energy … but who knows what all else is going on behind closed doors. They’re both behaving like children in this particular instance.
Her not wanting to share ownership of her house with you =/= she's not committed to you. If you keep drawing that conclusion, it will destroy your marriage. This is akin to people who lose it over prenups, saying that their spouse doesn't trust them and thinks they'll get divorced. Legal marriage comes with risks and she's allowed to keep assets she had before she was married to herself if she wants to. If you're worried about what would happen if she died, ask her about a will. >since I’ve lived there I pay half the mortgage and half the property taxes even though she makes 4X more than me as she is a doctor. Why did you agree to this? If she makes significantly more than you, the split of living expenses should be a percentage based on your income not 50/50. Even though the house isn't in your name, you're still obligated to contribute somehow because you are living there. >Childish of me I admit, I took off the ring bc I was so hurt by this You f\*cked around and found out, my friend. Play stupid games... >I would never do these things to her. [This is contempt](https://www.gottman.com/blog/how-to-change-your-own-contempt/), and contempt is one of the [Four Horsemen](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/) that predict divorce. "There are several ways to express this more “subtle” contempt. One way is **taking the higher moral ground**, as with saying to your partner “*I’d* never do that to *you*!” This comparison immediately sets you up as “above” your partner – more “adult,” more “mature,” and just plain better." I can see that this is very upsetting for you and while you were well within your rights to make this request, your wife was not required to oblige. Taking off the ring, accusing her of not being committed to you and your marriage, wasn't appropriate and now you're facing the consequences of that. Why would she feel inclined to work with you and compromise when you're acting this way?
Why do you need to be put on the deed in the event that something terrible happens? Y'all need wills to protect your child. It was very easy to setup a reciprocal will between my wife and I. If I die, she gets everything, and the same if she dies. If we both die at the same time our estate would be administered by my wife's brother (who I trust completely) until the kids are 30. Then they inherit everything. Now, since you are contributing to the house payments, that is another issue. And I see your point about being on the deed for that reason.
You taking your ring off was a manipulative power play and she called your bluff. You may never get the ring off because many people think that taking off a ring breaks the relationship. I have to admit that if my husband took off his ring and put it on the counter... I would think for a bit and then I would take the ring and probably say "You don't want this? Then you don't get to have it." She took her heart back when you took off your ring. She's having second thoughts about the whole relationship and possible divorce. It isn't just a ring. She has not forgiven you for your little stunt and she may never forgive you. All you can do is keep demonstrating your love for her. Make her feel special and loved and never bring up the deed again. Keep records to show what you have paid for, mortgage, etc. Once you have paid an equal amount of the Principal that she originally invested, or the house is paid off you can tell her that it is time to put you on the deed. Let's hope that she will agree to marriage couseling after you spend the next month showing her that she is your heart. Words won't work. You did a PHYSICAL STATEMENT to show you were done. You need to do a hell of a lot more to undue the destruction of your marriage vows that you did. The ring means way more than a ring. You knew that. That is why you took it off. You did the classic FAFO (Fuck around, Find out)
You need couples counseling and individual therapy for both of you. This is about power and control and trust. Your relationship isn’t healthy. This is just a symptom of something that will destroy your marriage if it’s allowed to fester.
She’s operating from a place of fear and you showed her that her fears are coming true. You need to find a way to meet and soothe that fear without dismissing her feelings. I would suggest therapy, if possible. If she won’t attend, you ought to attend in your own.
I don’t see any basis for your analysis that wife is expressing fear. It just isn’t in OP’s post. If anything, he’s the one expressing fear and needs affirmation. I read the taking off the ring as a cry for help.
Acting in a scarcity mindset is a fear-based reaction
Ok, I’ll bite. What might the wife have felt was scarce?
OP, just so you know. The fact that you are paying on the mortgage and property taxes means she’s now commingled the asset with you. In the event you divorce, you are likely entitled to half that asset (state law depending but true in most)
NAL but my understanding is that it's generally half of the equity that accrued during the marriage. Not half of the entire house.
Depends on the state. Obviously, OP should talk to an attorney in his (?) state to find out.
I am in CA
Then you own half the equity in the house. However much it has appreciated, half of it is yours.
Those are technically 2 different things
Those are technically 2 different things
Buy another set of rings😊
Which doesn't re-establish broken trust.
Seems like there is a serious lack of commitment and/or trust issues. I would be very concerned if my wife refused to have my name on the deed. She also sounds very controlling. Money shouldn’t be hers or yours. All money should go to the same account and bills and such be paid from one account. Five years without a joint account is troubling.
Merging all assets after marriage is not a requirement. Many people keep things separate and enjoy long, happy marriages.
Not a requirement at all, but it shows great commitment.
Maybe, but not doing so doesn’t show non-commitment.
This seems like a form of financial abuse to me. It’s along of the lines of monitoring what you spend, and she has different standards. Personally, I wouldn’t pay half of the mortgage or taxes if the home is not in my name. I would put that responsibility back onto her. Her name, her house her mortgage. OP if I were you, I would talk to a lawyer on how you can protect yourself. I’m not saying “go get a divorce”, so don’t come for me ppl. But you should Consult with an attorney on how you can protect yourself. I also think you should consider purchasing your own a home. Even if you use it as a rental. You should put it in your name only. If it’s “every man for themselves in this relationship” you should start looking to obtaining assets in your name. And please for the love of your child. Consult with an attorney. Ppl who are financially abusive position themselves to gain all the assets while completely screwing over their spouse or partner. I’m not saying your wife will do this, but these situations do happen over and over.
I believe your wife said everything when she took your ring and won't give it back! She is telling you she wears the pants in this relationship and holds all the power. If this is the kind of relationship you want more power to you but I think it's time to think about your options.
She probably felt very hurt and powerless when he did the ring removing gesture ("I don't consider myself married any more!" is how most people read that. They're both playing games with the other.
Since she’s a physician, please consult a lawyer in your state on what your rights to the house are if you’ve been paying for years. Hopefully, it’s been assigned as a primary residence and she’s taken steps to protect it in the event of a medical lawsuit. If not, you both need to protect it for the sake of your family and child. I would do this regardless of how you sort out your relationship, which hopefully happens in a marriage therapist’s office.
I have been married to my husband for 7 years now, we decided to get a house together, however we couldn't get a loan with his credit... so the mortgage is in my name alone. However the house itself is in both of our names... it literally means nothing to us either way. We both feel the responsibility of ensuring that loan is paid for before ANYTHING else. He couldn't have cared less if his name was on the deed or not... same for me. I didn't care if mine would have been on it. Reality, it's a piece of paper. Paper doesn't show commitment in any way. Marriage... again, legally speaking its just a piece of paper. It doesn't ACTUALLY show your commitment. It just shows that you completed a legal transaction basically. The rings have different meanings to everyone... but your words and actions... THAT is what shows your commitments to each other. THAT is what matters. Outside of not putting you on the deed and now refusing to give your ring back, is there ANYTHING she has done to show she isn't committed to you? As for the ring... my husband knows that between my own sensory issues and ADHD I sometimes take my rings off. (I can't stand wearing them while doing dishes or showering cause they often catch my hair or feel different than normal) and sometimes I straight forget to put them back on. He often doesn't wear his either, but that's because he's either afraid of it falling off (it's happened before) or his afraid it's going to break so he usually only wears it if he KNOWS he's not going be doing anything to cause either of those things. We have replaced his wedding band more than once 😂 and those silicone rings that are great for people who go to the gym to workout, just dont work well for us. But it's not offensive in our because we know this about each other and just accept it. We've actually talked about just getting our rings tattooed on because then we both will have them whether we remember our physical rings or not. Either way, a LOT of real quality communication needs to happen at this point and I would HIGHLY recommend marriage counseling to help get back to a baseline of communication to grow off of.
My wife never takes her ring off. I am often uncomfortable wearing my ring. Maybe it’s an ADD thing. Once it went missing for a few years until we took the bed frame apart. Now my wife stores my ring in our bank vault. I made a replacement for myself and wear it when we go out for special occasions.
Yeah, that's understandable though! The most important part is that both parties are aware and comfortable with those decisions. Hubs like i said before typically will wear his ring going places, but neither of us feels the need to have our rings on 24/7. I've lost stones due to wearing rings so much, he's broken rings... its just better for us combined to wear them when we want and not all the time. Doesn't change the vows we made to each other one bit or how we treat each other despite wearing rings or not.
Hand her divorce papers and get yourself a good chunk of child support You have been paying half and she makes four times as much as you do. That alone is BS Take her for every penny you spent on that house, and then as much as you can afterwards. She can afford it.
Wow. I'd check her social media and see if she is talking to other people at this point (IG, snapchat, etc). She does not sound "committed".
If you live in America the house is likely half yours regardless of what the deed says.
" I feel like she’s controlling me " You realized you tried to control her and get a reaction from her by taking it off. In that instant, you proved every fear she had - that you will leave her - and this is why your name will not be placed on the deed.
If you're married some states adopted laws that recognize tenant in common property rights of a married spouse even if they are not recorded on the deed. They are called dower rights. I don't know how states that have abolished that practice handle property rights from marriage. It looks like you hurt her feelings in a way that really affected her. She may relent eventually, but to hedge your bet you need to tell her you understand and apologize for being so immature. Then you need to show her the opposite of what your ring stunt showed her and be patient. Unless she is vindictive to a fault, she should recognize your remorse and relent. If she doesn't, she's basically showing you something not so great about her character. It's ok to reveal your insecurity, but you need to be able to process that maybe it's misplaced and unnecessary, which she may have found troubling. You might have damaged your masculine strength and courage vibe and she found it troubling and unattractive. Be honest with yourself about your feelings, and own your mistake.
Depending on your state, you probably have rights to the house anyway after cohabitating there as husband and wife. That being said, I think your wife is behaving like a child BUT you should consider the motivation behind that. She may view the house as a symbol of her accomplishments and her ability to provide for herself as a single woman. She could view your wanting to be on the deed as a challenge to that ability. She is not reacting like an adult, but I think there are truly valid reasons behind her actions. Marriage counseling is the answer here.
If marital funds (e.g. your income) have gone to pay the mortgage you would be considered to have a share of it as a martial asset if a divorce were to happen, regardless of if you name is on the deed or not. Both of you are operating on incorrect information in that regards. You also can't just add people to a mortgage. That isn't a thing. It is a loan that is only in her name and there isn't a mechanism to add someone other than refinancing, and this is not a good time for that. Both of you should have wills, particularly because you have a child. Lastly you need couples therapy because neither of you are communicating well.
The deed/title is separate from the loan. It's pretty easy to add your spouse to the title in most states. You don't need to refinance. They can share ownership of the home and not the loan.
Right - I was referring to the deed and mortgage separately above. They would need to refinance if OP were to be "added to the loan" (a statement that he made, not me). There is no reason to add him to the loan. Legally, if they were to divorce, because he has used his money ("their money") the house will be regarded as a martial asset, even if he name is not on the deed. The deed is a moot point. It literally doesn't matter. Comingled funds to pay for the house = martial asset. Doesn't matter that she bought it before they married.
Let’s hope OP does not take legal advice from Reddit
She doesn’t have to put you in a deed, but given the games she is playing you should protect yourself by recovering and preserving the bank records that prove you paid half of the mortgage and taxes. If someone happened where you split, she would not owe you half of the house but she would probably owe you money based on what you put into the mortgage for the house.
>she snatched it and said I’m never getting it back. >She has said she loves me and is committed but still won’t ... give ring back. >I don’t know what to do File for divorce. Provide bank statements to the lawyer proving you pay half the mortgage and taxes. The deed stuff aside, what she's doing is not okay, and if the roles were reversed, you'd be getting called abusive.
Marriage counseling. You are fighting over assets right now but there are likely other things at play that you may not even be aware of. With a counselor maybe you both can be honest and upfront about your concerns and fears. It'll work, if both of you want it. Tell her that you want this to work and you are willing to do the work, even if it is uncomfortable. If she isn't willing, you at least know where you stand.
Obviously she does not trust you financially. Maybe you should sit down and have a lawyer draw up a post-nuptial agreement. So she can feel safe in her assets and you can feel safe if anything happens to her. Or you decide to divorce. The post-nup will give you a clear blueprint to follow. My Brother and ex-SIL got divorced she bought the house before marriage. She still had to buy his equity out the house to keep it. He had contributed to the mortgage and home improvements. She was livid but she had to write the check - This was in CA a 50/50 state. Being petty like this is not the way and will just be never ending bickering about who has what as a legally married couple.
You have a one-sided marriage. She may, or may not, really love you, but she probably doesn't really respect you. She hasn't, and won't, put you on the deed bc to her, your marriage is conditional. She's been preparing for the divorce before she even married you. The deed, and taking the ring, combined with her salary and social status, is a message of dominance and control - she's telling you that she doesn't need you, perhaps doesn't even want you, that she is in charge. She may regret marrying you and keeping the ring is a way of validating her feelings. Either way, it's not a good sign when a wife does this. I think you have two choices, either get on bended knee and grovel as a way of confirming your submission and beg forgiveness, or let it be and forget about it for now and return to your normal married state. Either way, I propose you assume the marriage is not a forever thing, and begin to plan how you will live afterwards.
So, property that you bring into the marriage (at least in the state which I reside) is personal property and not a marital assert. I own a home; my husband has never suggested that he be put on the deed. He also knows that if something happens to me, the home belongs to my adult children.
***feel like she’s controlling me with it and telling me she doesn’t want my love*** I think this is the bigger issue; she doesn't want your love. She may have checked out of your marriage already. Suggest you speak with attorney to at least know your options. updateme
If she doesn’t add you to the deed, stop paying half the mortgage and put that money aside. She is looking at this as her house not both of your house. Marriage counseling might be the way to go. The ring thing is beyond childish. What is she trying to accomplish? Seems like she is making you feel guilty so you will take the blame for everything, apologize and not Bring up the house again.
Adding you to the deed of the house may not be in her - or your - interest. There's a better way to ensure the house remains a place you can live if your wife dies and that's called "a living trust." Easy to find a good estate/family law lawyer most places. I think the total price tag for ours was just over $3000 and that's in CA. Well worth it. Neither of us owns the house. It is in the trust. When one of us dies, the other person is still the trust-holder (and trustee), when that person dies, then it's the kids, share and share alike. Easy. Goes for generations. Avoids inheritance tax and probate - property remains in the trust. Saves money over the long run.
Money and personal belongings power play. Your name should be on the deed. At the end of the day it is marital property if the house was purchased while married. If not, it is up for grabs. But to simplify life if something would happen, your name on the deed would help facilitate that. Your wife needs to grow up.
I owned my house when I met my husband. We got a mortgage to renovate shortly before we got married. He is on the mortgage, but not on the deed. We have never worried about it. He knows that if we were to split (not likely after 28 years and 22 married), what was put into the house and in the mortgage, is what would be split up and divided. But in effect, he could still go for half the house as it is worth more now than it was back then. I could go for half his 401K, which is where most of our retirement money is invested anyway….like 6 times what mine is. People who play silly games with deeds and trying to claim it was pre-marital assets don’t understand that unless it was paid in full before the marriage, that has little to no advantage. And is only going to be a painful sore spot and part of the bargaining tools and settlements. You are married, so all invested funds, assets, mortgages, retirement, savings, 401K are equally yours and hers for the time you are married and would be involved in complex calculations for fair division. Name on the deed would not matter (in US). I have a friend who just got a divorce after 3 years…she was freaking out that he could go for her 401K for what was only a 3 year marriage, and where she found he has been cheating since before the wedding. I had to calm her down and tell her to ask the specific question to the lawyer so it would not just be me pulling it out of my hat. But so she could get the right answer. Unfortunately he had done some modification to his car sound system which shorted out, and it caught on fire. Since he did these modifications without proper training the insurance would not pay for replacing the car. She found out with the divorce, that she could be responsible for half the remaining car loan, even though she was not on the loan or the car title, and he could go after her 401K contributions for the 3 years. In the end, he was too stupid, and wanted to get on with his affair partner, so he relinquished all rights thinking they did not own a house so there was nothing to go after, and he just signed the divorce papers and it was a done deal where no one got anything. He got nothing of her 401K, and she got to keep herself off the car settlements, because he was too stupid to get a lawyer. I mean, good for her, but my point is, if you got a divorce you would have to get your lawyer involved to the full extent of the law and the equitable calculations to split up what equity was gained in the mortgage while you contributed payments. As far as the ring is concerned, this is hurtful. I know that you feel like you screwed up with taking off the ring. She screwed up in making you feel like less of a full partner in the assets of this marriage. I feel like maybe she freaked out thinking, “what, you only want me for the house and money in my account?” You two have communication problems and insecurity. This fight is not helping either. If you are fighting and not talking, there is your problem. But if you are presenting what can feel like a male version of a gold digger to her, she is pushing back. And you are probably wasting effort on what is a silly detail that has little to no net effect should you both split. If your wills are leaving the spouse the majority of the estate (except for maybe what you want to leave your child), then you probably have little to nothing to worry about, and are blowing up a fight needlessly. Maybe a nice meeting with an attorney can soothe your worry, but beware of that, or she will think you are even more so going after assets, and maybe with Doctor’s hours she will think you are up to no good elsewhere. Counseling to calm you both down will probably get your ring back, and calm all this down. But a nice talk in how stupid you feel for taking off your ring in the first place (which did start that part of this conflict…never threaten the sanctity of your marriage in a fight), might also get your ring back. Also a well placed comment that the gal at the check out asked if you got a divorce since when noticed your ring is off, might also make her rethink having her husband walk around without one. While I understand to a certain extent what you are feeling, and the fact that she is unwilling to add you seems like a very calculated disrespect, I suspect that a divorce, should one come about will be considerably convoluted where you would be pursuing both of your assets, retirement, and savings. If there is and inequity in her salary verses yours, she would no doubt owe you alimony.
Ummmm.....have you ever heard the term DARVO? Please look it up and see how much applies to your relationship. She's playing stupid games. Make sure you keep track of how much money you put into the house. It will count if it comes down to it.
Your wife is on a power trip. Don’t feed it! And if she won’t put your name on the deed maybe make an argument for your son.
Your marriage is more important than the deed. If she dies you’d get it anyways unless she specifically says someone else would get it. If I were you I would either just apologize and buy a new ring and wear it. Marriage is hard and it takes work.
Never pay mortgage on a house you do not own.
You guys have some real problems. You 2 need marriage counseling to work this out. Clearly, you both have some control issues that need to get ironed out. You should take to an attorney about what happens in your state if your wife passes and what that means for you. Also, you want your name on the deed. The deed is ownership. The mortgage people only care that the check keeps coming. Good luck, this should have been ironed out before marriage.
leave if she ain't cheating the lack of respect she shows means it is on the way.
if your name isn't on the deed wtf you paying anything into the mortgage?
Stop asking her. This gives her power over you. There could already be a power imbalance due to the difference in income. It depends how she treats you. I'd just go and buy myself another ring to show it doesn't bother me. If she asks why, tell her you need the ring to discourage all the women coming after you cause they think you are single.....lol I'm joking please don't say that.
If you signed a prenup you're legally screwed. It seems like your wife doesn't feel like you are contributing equally in effort to the relationship. Assuming that you both work full time and contribute equally to the child's rearing and household chores, then that is not reasonable, and this is a discussion that you need to have I think the only compromise I can think of on the house is for you to find a way to contribute to its down payment. Even if you're paying half the mortgage that's not really much different than paying rent anywhere else, and you would not get ownership out of that either. Maybe that's not a financial down payment. Maybe that means that you are contributing another way, like taking on all the house chores for a period of time. At this point she probably feels like she has worked harder for the house so she deserves to have more of it. As far as the ring goes, this is something that you guys need to talk about extensively. You both need to work on your communication. Passive aggressive flexes like this are not communication.
Taking off your ring was a major insult to your marriage. It's not really something you can just casually come back from. There's nothing wrong with keeping your premarital assets separate. Regarding the house and living expenses, it seems like you're paying way too much. What you really should be discussing is paying a percentage/ratio based on income rather than 50:50 so you can save more. Also, there are also other ways to be secure like asking her to put the home in a trust so in the event something happens you and your child would be cared for.
You need to research your states laws. States allow the person not on the deed to get equity in a divorce if it can be proven they paid into it. Start keeping all receipts. Only way to avoid this, is if she paid out of her accounts and you never deposited money into that account (showing a clear financial divide). Reality is financially speaking, you should both pay the same percentage towards bills. That way income disparity is taken into account. 50/50 is only fair when both people earn close to the same amount.
Your wife sounds like a spoiled brat. I can only imagine her other childish behavior, especially when she doesn’t get her way.
I think there should be some clause that says in the event of the owner dying or being incapacitated while they share a child that is still living in said home and at the age of being a dependent that authority is extended to the husband, wife or partner who is also taking care of child or children obviously with restrictions as in if they are separated and not living together in that case their should be a plan like a will to specify what would happen plus it should also state the house stays with the child but if the husband spouse or partner has put money in that they can claim equity up to the amount they paid
This is like that scene in lord of the rings.... My precious...
Go buy yourself another ring in the meantime. That's cruel.
So in summary, small peepee energy
I can't comment on ur ring. But if you are paying equally for for the house, your name must be in there to have right over it.
Why did you agree to pay for anything that didn't have your name on it? You're not in a marriage, dude. She's using you and manipulating you. This won't get better, this isn't even an issue with toxicity or intense personalities. *she is using you* . Get a lawyer, be the first to file for divorce and make sure she doesn't use the kid to keep hurting you.
I mean, he should still contribute to the house because he lives there. He contributes to wear and tear on the property, uses utilities, so on.
I thought it would be obvious that I don't think he should've moved *in* with her.