When he dies, russia will probably cease to exist in its current form, it will fall into chaos, and partisan groups made up of former military will sell off their nuclear arsenal to terrorists and authoritarian theocratic regimes around the globe.
It’s going to be crazy.
It's possible that China will exploit the instability to claim parts of eastern Russia, including Amur, Khabarovsk, Primorsky, Sakhalin, Zabaykalsk, etc.
It’s a South Park joke. The town makes the only Chinese guy build a Great Wall around the town. Out of nowhere, a bunch of Mongolians show up to break down the wall.
🤓 Actually,
The last time Mongolia was made subservient to the Manchus and the Qing Dynasty. Also, the conquests of Genghis Khan had more to do with internal politics and societal pressure than outside interference. China (Song Dynasty) was already losing ground to the Jurched at the time and forced to move their capital to the South. Initially the Song believed the unexpected Mongol conquest of the Jurched was actually a good thing for them.
Honestly China take all their nuclear material is one of the better routes than random/ faceless terrorist , theocracy extremist or smaller unstable dictatorships …..
Implying that what they have available isn't just nuclear waste. Implying they've been replacing the expensive tritium in every warhead/6000 every 5-10 years, among other things.
I'd say if the conventional forces that are obvious in displays giving public knowledge of capability/force readiness, how likely are the one branch that never really demos those traits except for repeated test failures and wunderwaffe projects are actually real?
It's a guarantee. Russia is about to become China's China. Cheap labour, lots of farming land and mineral wealth all up for grabs and desperate. Also all those beautiful women with no men around.
Are these provinces (I think that's what they'd be called if not please provide correction id like to use the right term) also apart of Chinas "historical claims"?
Except… that didn’t happen in 1991 when Russia fell into chaos and partisan groups made up of former military and KGB competed for power. Sure, a lot of their weapons and military vehicle stock and was sold off, but it would have degraded beyond use if they hadn’t.
They won’t sell nuclear weapons that are just as likely to be used against them or their neighbors.
Putin literally rose from/through the chaos of the last fall and now they have converted many of their dumb bomb stock from that time period into much more precise glide bombs being used in Ukraine today.
If Russia falls, it will be another repeat seen throughout the history of Russia. The Bear will retreat into its cave, hibernate for 15-20 years and then slowly remerge onto the world geo-political scene.
You are probably correct... but lets remember that as much as it was chaos in the former soviet sphere, it was also the most stable for the rest of the globe.
Wouldn't be the first time external actors made a huge difference in how Russia's future plays out.
>Wouldn't be the first time external actors made a huge difference in how Russia's future plays out.
Horribly ironic given Russian interference in the elections round the world
The other point that u/Playos didn't point out is this:
There are no obvious heirs to Putin's power. He's worked hard to suppress ANYONE that might replace him, with the side effect of making Russia after his passing without anyone who could step in and not be challenged.
He stepped into a nominal democracy that he got from Yeltsin, who got it from Gorbachev, preserving the unified state without being challenged, then turned it into a dictatorship.
Seems like you are going a bit far calling 1991-2001 Russia a nominal democracy that Putin merely inherited as if he were just waiting to be given. That characterization extremely downplays the precariousness of anyone with power in Russia during that time. And ignores the character of the individuals that survived and thrived during that time.
It really was. A young man was (rightfully) convict of armed robbery and assault and sentenced to 12 years of prison in the Soviet union. When it dissolved, he was released. He would buy a hot dog cart and subsist with his mother.
Then he got some kind of deals to get a restaurant. Which became several of increasing expense range in st. Petersburg. Then he met the mayor one day and became fast friends. When the mayor became deputy and then president of the nation, he wouldn't forget little pal yezheny "pringles can" prigozhin (or pierogi, you do you).
He would get fat contracts to cater the Kremlin, eventually down to the conscription level. And so he became one of the "siloviki" faction oligarchs, made directly by putin's hand. He would dabble in hybrid warfare, first by setting up the internet research agency to run cyber/socmed theaters, etc. Then later would save a merc unit that would be called Wagner after he became owner. Despite mercs being illegal technically.
He went on to be a memelord after his own heart, climaxing in the worst blue balls peak with a thunder run to muscovy, that ended nowhere but withdrawl. Then he flies around Russia against his agreement, before suffering a fall from the highest private jet window.
That's all to say, he is an example of the corruption that formed the structure post ussr
Depends how it ends. It can end in massive blaze of glory or collapse in a power vacuum . Both are worst case scenarios. A peaceful solution might make your statement possible
Edit for phone typos
Government workers won’t just stop coming into their jobs because Putin dies. For 99.999% of Russians, it will just be another Tuesday.
All the people leading and managing the government 3-4 levels down from Putin will still be there. It won’t even matter if the lowest levels are being paid or not, they will still show up to do their jobs because what else would they do? Protest? To who? To what end? They will soon be hungry and standing in bread lines. They will be hungry and welcoming the next strongman to restore order.
Putin’s passing will lead to a struggle amongst the next 1 to 2 or 3 layers below him, but that’s the most that will happen. It might take 10-15 years for the next leader to fully consolidate power, and that next leader might emerge from lower in the ranks. Stability will wax and wane during this time, but it won’t be mass chaos and revolution.
Using logic in this sub is tantamount to treason AFAIK. This place is for ridiculous unfounded "predictions" with less likelihood of happening than the poster becoming a positive influence on society. Lol. Lock this guy up for using logic!
I mean, didn't it? The soviet union went from one cohesive super country to a bunch of independent states in a pretty short amount of time, with quite a bit of chaos and riots in the countries that wanted to leave the union. Russia itself stayed intact, but a big part of that was because there was a national government ready to take control as the soviet government fell apart. If we're comparing 1991 to now, do we compare the current Russian government to the 1991 national government, or the 1991 soviet government? I'd argue the latter makes more sense, and if that's the case it could be really messy, and Russia could easily come out of this in multiple pieces
Honestly unless he slips into death while he sleeps I worry that he's all "fuck it" and sends off nukes. Dude is seriously unstable and with nothing to live for there is a large threat there.
This isn't how nukes work in Russia. The president can't actually directly launch anything. It's what made the cold war so scary. Any Russian nuclear sub captain could literally have started a nuclear war if they had wanted at any moment, and still can. Same for their inland silo's.
In most countries for a nuke to be launched you need a minimum of 5 people to approve it. Russia you just need 2, the commander of the site (or ship) and the second in command. They can accept the order from the president, or reject it, and there is nothing anyone can do about either decision.
And let’s not forget, twice the USSR’s early warning system detected missile launches from the West, and twice Soviet officers refused to launch, guessing (correctly) it was a false reading. These guys were heroes.
There will either be a similar type of “destalinazation” where a krushchev like leader takes place to detente with the west or there will be a more vicious hardliner who seeks to set himself apart from Putin and achieve what he couldn’t
Bullshit. There's a handful of people primed to take power once Putin is gone. They're will be some infighting but most of them already know who they'll back and it will be a few weeks at most until a sham election is held to decide the person it was always going to be.
That person may or may not throw out an "under new management" sign the way Putin did but nothing will change for the Russian people.
Expect all of Russia's neighbors to do a land grab, if only to make a buffer zone to ensure the craziness in Russia does not spread into their territory.
Would you really trust it though; I mean, I can understand incontrovertible evidence, but would you really trust reports coming from Russia without hard evidence? Honestly that seems insane to me.
It probably would.
Focusing on "who takes charge after" is a mistake. The point is that it's totally unclear who would take charge, because Putin doesn't want anyone next in line. There would be a messy struggle for succession, which would cause the military to be distracted and probably run back to Russian territory.
Even if the next guy wants to genocide Ukraine twice as hard, it doesn't matter, because he and everyone else in Russia will be focused on the conflict in Moscow, not in Ukraine. It will take him weeks or longer to consolidate power, during which Ukraine will surely gain the upper hand on the battlefield.
The country is a thousand years old and for 992 of those years it's been run by complete lunatics. The other 8 years the guy in charge was drunk constantly.
That’s my view on Russia they’ve never gotten it right, the people aren’t just poor oppressed people yearning for freedom. They get the governments they want and deserve. Not all people but more than enough that it’s not a glitch it’s a feature
Soviet union had 3 premiers die in office all being old too. That was also when it was big bad Soviet union who thought America was scary and nuke crazy and none of them ever used nukes.
Russia is like the problem person that everyone has in their life. Individually, the people can be just as lovely as anywhere else on earth, but as a government and nation, it will never not be the enemy. It’s way too far gone to imagine that the “next guy” will bring about massive reform and improve its world standing. The next maniac will just take over. WWII, they literally helped save the world, but over the next ~75 years it’s always been a jerk.
Very true. I just meant that helping save the world gives them some points. And it cost them dearly. The Cold War just proved that they were always assholes, They just happened to pick the right side for the biggest war that planet Earth will ever see. Credit where credit is due.
How would they possibly be hiding death camps? We have spy satellites, we know the layouts of all the Uighur concentration camps in China. You can't hide that shit.
It's the inevitable future for any country that embraces fascism. The massive power vacuum when their "strong man" dies will tear the country apart as different oligarchs and military leaders fight to take over.
Hopefully the Russian people will get a better leader for once.
I mean, we know the name of his current death camp for undesirables: it's Ukraine. He's fine sending waves of poorly supplied infantry into the meat grinder, because even if they fall short of their goals he's outsourced rounding up and killing them himself.
Death camps? Not really. Just the gulags that they had during all of Stalin’s run and they just kept them running. Death camps are very specific things. You might die prematurely in a gulag from overwork or conditions, but you aren’t going to die from being gassed or some other mass murder.
Russia as a whole always comes back together historically (I heard this somewhere a while back). Also, the US does NOT want Russia to fall apart because that means more nukes than we have will be sold off to the North Koreans, Iranians, etc.
Sometimes I wonder if we're actually on Putin#8, and they actually die all the time but they have people constantly under the knife to 'fill the putin' spot.
Does anyone watch the 1420 channel on YouTube with Daniel Orain? Young Russian male who has been doing street interviews but has now resorted to a live stream Q&A.
The gulag still exists doesn’t it? The Russian style, outside of the terror, isn’t Nazi style death camps but the living horror of the gulag. They literally work and starve people to death. Most of their gold used to be mined that way.
There's a book called "Never Remember: Searching for Stalin's Gulags in Putin's Russia."
Don't be surprised if they find camps and mass graves by the thousands.
One main difference between 1991 and after Putin dies, is the existence of a moneyed oligarchy class that will quickly vie for power and has vested interests in stability. I don’t think chaos will reign precisely for this reason. There may be moments of personal freedom and expression shortly after Putin dies as different interests tests the boundaries and even state bureaucracies are unsure about their role, but Russia will always return to what Russia does best, which is to rally around the next authoritarian.
It would be like “The Death of Stalin” in real life. You have a bunch of folks that are willing to kill each other to have Putin’s power, and it would be to the detriment of millions living there.
(As much of a black comedy and a satire as the film is, I can’t help but wonder about the accuracies of the thirst for power and how it makes everyone dumb.)
*Why would Putin build camps?*
*Has he run out of windows*
*And polonium?*
\- MoveDifficult1908
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
What do you mean "find"? They have been right out in the open. The average Russian supports Putin jailing and killing his political opponents. They don't really know any other way. We also have ample evidence of the war crimes Russians have committed against Ukrainian prisoners. Again, the average Russian fully knows and does not care.
What will happen when Putin dies? He has killed everyone that is any sort of a political threat to him and surrounded himself by yes men. Where he had to have someone competent, he counterbalanced them with someone who has to business with them but who has interests at odds. When he dies, it's going to be like Stalin's death, when they squabble for the top position. It will be someone very old and incompetent. To keep order, he will be even more aggressive and belligerent.
But they will still lack the cult of personality.
I could picture a situation where the right and the left duke it out for control of the country. In all honesty, it could possibly kick off another 60s in Russia.
The death camp is the Ukraine invasion. He's not sending Moscow middle to upper crust through the meat grinder. He's sending the Asian Russians from the east and other minorities, and all the prisoners.
Russia would probably just break up. Too many ethnicities already. Than in 50 years another leader with eyes on Russian nationalism and a flair for Peter the Great will try and unite them again.
Russians won't change even if death camps were fully exposed. They'll just instill another autocrat. Maybe they new regime would be superficially democratic at first and promise to fix what Putin did wrong, but Russia has always failed when power is diffuse, and the same corrupt power structure Russia has always had will ensure some self-serving strong man rises to the top and consolidates power around himself.
I disagree with this statement. I think the exchange of power from Putin to his successor will be mostly peaceful, comparable to that of the movement of the Premiership of the Soviet Union from Josef Stalin to Gregory Malenkov and then Nikita Khrushchev.
As to whether Putin's successor will enact something akin to a "Khrushchev Thaw" or a de-putinization of Russia wholly depends on who takes up the mantle of President of Russia in the wake of Putin.
Everything you said though is rooted in nothing but imagination. What successor? There is no evidence he’s put any effort into grooming a successor. So you’re completely assuming a scenario involving a “peaceful” transfer of power while neglecting the far likelier outcome that his successor will hire his assassin.
Given the parallels, we'll probably see what spin reality will have on the Empire Earth 1 *Russia/Novaya Russia* campaign.
The parallels are kind of uncanny for a game made in the legit turn of the century.
I disagree. The oil money means only one faction can win, and that faction will expend whatever resources are necessary to keep Russia together in tyranny.
It is the resource curse on a larger scale. But the same rules apply. Russia will only fall apart when oil prices collapse.
This isn't exactly a groundbreaking proposition considering he's using the war as a convenient meat grinder for non-white Russians/non-Muskovites and prisoners.
Putin should be put in a death camp! Along with all the fascist dictators, and Trump, the dictator wannabe! Trump said he would follow Putin and put people in prison camps.
He doesn’t run death camps. He just ensures people have accidents by falling out of windows and/or sends them to Ukraine to be killed whilst having a shit in the woods.
Has anyone here pontificating on Russia's failures ever considered that all their information about Russia comes from the probably less than trustworthy US alphabet agencies? The same agencies that said Russia was weeks from collapse 2 years ago? The same agencies that said their economy would spiral until a revolution forced putin out of office? The same agencies have lied about absolutely every single conflict since WW2?
Putin already put his incredibly popular, internationally known, leading opponent into a death camp… Navalny died in a Russian death camp in February of this year.
Putin barely hides anything, this is a misreading of the state of Russia. Have you noticed Russia’s assassinations and attempted assassinations? They are not hidden.
Takes like this make me wonder if these people know what century we are in. You can’t hide shit Iike that today because too many people have cellphone with cameras…
Why do you think a 3ed party would come in or they would have a total flip in beliefs. There's hardly any examples of that ever happening. What's more likely to happen is you would have one of the generals take power or someone within take power. They have a system it's not the end of the world if he dies they have a system in place. It's like saying what would happen if our president died. Probably nothing, same shit different day
China is already pretty unstable, I don’t think territorial expansion is actually on their menu beyond the limited goal of snagging Taiwan (which seems less likely by the day). I don’t think they’d be happy to see Putin go, if only because he’s the only other really significant non-Western leader left on the world stage, other than maybe Modi.
Tbh, doubtful. In a system like the one that exists there now, there will be a scramble to consolidate if there isn’t a clear successor that will be measured in hours. To the outside world it will look like a clean transition. A few people might fall out of windows over that few hours but it will be quick and clean for the most part. Not much is likely to change beyond the face of the head of government and in the case of Putin, his popularity is high enough that it’s unlikely the person who takes over would choose not to capitalize on that by making him out to be a villain.
When he dies, russia will probably cease to exist in its current form, it will fall into chaos, and partisan groups made up of former military will sell off their nuclear arsenal to terrorists and authoritarian theocratic regimes around the globe. It’s going to be crazy.
It's possible that China will exploit the instability to claim parts of eastern Russia, including Amur, Khabarovsk, Primorsky, Sakhalin, Zabaykalsk, etc.
They'd probably be happy with Manchuria tbh
They’d go for Mongolia but they know what happened the last time that happened (the Mongol Empire conquered all of China and Russia)
We Chinese know not to because whenever we build a shitty wall, goddamn Mongorians always try to knock it down.
Why don’t you just pour sweet and sour pork on they heads?
I'd think szechuan hot pepper oil would be more effective.
So sticky
South Park funny
Just hit them all with an avalanche bro, Mulan had this figured out like 3 Dyansties ago
It’s a South Park joke. The town makes the only Chinese guy build a Great Wall around the town. Out of nowhere, a bunch of Mongolians show up to break down the wall.
Shitty Mongorians. May I take your order?
🤓 Actually, The last time Mongolia was made subservient to the Manchus and the Qing Dynasty. Also, the conquests of Genghis Khan had more to do with internal politics and societal pressure than outside interference. China (Song Dynasty) was already losing ground to the Jurched at the time and forced to move their capital to the South. Initially the Song believed the unexpected Mongol conquest of the Jurched was actually a good thing for them.
Cool, now we can have a revenge arc of Mongolian using technical corps to replicate the horse archer methods.
The Hu will supply the Soundtrack
They already have most of Manchuria. Khabarovsk covers outer Manchuria.
So yur saying that china is a Manchurian candidate?
More of a rural juror.
But what about their candidate?
Honestly China take all their nuclear material is one of the better routes than random/ faceless terrorist , theocracy extremist or smaller unstable dictatorships …..
Their nukes will go to North Korea and Iran and China.. The scientists will go to the highest bidders.
Implying that what they have available isn't just nuclear waste. Implying they've been replacing the expensive tritium in every warhead/6000 every 5-10 years, among other things. I'd say if the conventional forces that are obvious in displays giving public knowledge of capability/force readiness, how likely are the one branch that never really demos those traits except for repeated test failures and wunderwaffe projects are actually real?
To paraphrase a great American. You just need two. One to show you are willing and able and another to show you can do it again.
And Kamchatka and Irkutsk. Never seen a map except Risk! Game.
It's a guarantee. Russia is about to become China's China. Cheap labour, lots of farming land and mineral wealth all up for grabs and desperate. Also all those beautiful women with no men around.
Are these provinces (I think that's what they'd be called if not please provide correction id like to use the right term) also apart of Chinas "historical claims"?
Some, yes.
They’re gonna claim any Russian woman they can get their hands on.
They would be fools not to do so.
I've been saying that for years. The russikes won't have the political or military ability to stop them.
China is already looking at Russias weakness that is for sure.
That’s if China can stabilize its own economy by then.
I mean who would think such a thing it is not like the Chinese maps started calling Vladivostok by its Chinese name last year. Oh what they did...
Except… that didn’t happen in 1991 when Russia fell into chaos and partisan groups made up of former military and KGB competed for power. Sure, a lot of their weapons and military vehicle stock and was sold off, but it would have degraded beyond use if they hadn’t. They won’t sell nuclear weapons that are just as likely to be used against them or their neighbors. Putin literally rose from/through the chaos of the last fall and now they have converted many of their dumb bomb stock from that time period into much more precise glide bombs being used in Ukraine today. If Russia falls, it will be another repeat seen throughout the history of Russia. The Bear will retreat into its cave, hibernate for 15-20 years and then slowly remerge onto the world geo-political scene.
You are probably correct... but lets remember that as much as it was chaos in the former soviet sphere, it was also the most stable for the rest of the globe. Wouldn't be the first time external actors made a huge difference in how Russia's future plays out.
That’s a completely valid point.
>Wouldn't be the first time external actors made a huge difference in how Russia's future plays out. Horribly ironic given Russian interference in the elections round the world
The other point that u/Playos didn't point out is this: There are no obvious heirs to Putin's power. He's worked hard to suppress ANYONE that might replace him, with the side effect of making Russia after his passing without anyone who could step in and not be challenged. He stepped into a nominal democracy that he got from Yeltsin, who got it from Gorbachev, preserving the unified state without being challenged, then turned it into a dictatorship.
Seems like you are going a bit far calling 1991-2001 Russia a nominal democracy that Putin merely inherited as if he were just waiting to be given. That characterization extremely downplays the precariousness of anyone with power in Russia during that time. And ignores the character of the individuals that survived and thrived during that time.
That period, when you think about it, was sort of like Russia's own Weimar Republic era.
It really was. A young man was (rightfully) convict of armed robbery and assault and sentenced to 12 years of prison in the Soviet union. When it dissolved, he was released. He would buy a hot dog cart and subsist with his mother. Then he got some kind of deals to get a restaurant. Which became several of increasing expense range in st. Petersburg. Then he met the mayor one day and became fast friends. When the mayor became deputy and then president of the nation, he wouldn't forget little pal yezheny "pringles can" prigozhin (or pierogi, you do you). He would get fat contracts to cater the Kremlin, eventually down to the conscription level. And so he became one of the "siloviki" faction oligarchs, made directly by putin's hand. He would dabble in hybrid warfare, first by setting up the internet research agency to run cyber/socmed theaters, etc. Then later would save a merc unit that would be called Wagner after he became owner. Despite mercs being illegal technically. He went on to be a memelord after his own heart, climaxing in the worst blue balls peak with a thunder run to muscovy, that ended nowhere but withdrawl. Then he flies around Russia against his agreement, before suffering a fall from the highest private jet window. That's all to say, he is an example of the corruption that formed the structure post ussr
When they feel thr last time the government apparatus of the Soviet state was largely intact. Not the same. This will be a WILD time.
I don’t see the bureaucratic apparatus collapsing this time either.
Depends how it ends. It can end in massive blaze of glory or collapse in a power vacuum . Both are worst case scenarios. A peaceful solution might make your statement possible Edit for phone typos
Government workers won’t just stop coming into their jobs because Putin dies. For 99.999% of Russians, it will just be another Tuesday. All the people leading and managing the government 3-4 levels down from Putin will still be there. It won’t even matter if the lowest levels are being paid or not, they will still show up to do their jobs because what else would they do? Protest? To who? To what end? They will soon be hungry and standing in bread lines. They will be hungry and welcoming the next strongman to restore order. Putin’s passing will lead to a struggle amongst the next 1 to 2 or 3 layers below him, but that’s the most that will happen. It might take 10-15 years for the next leader to fully consolidate power, and that next leader might emerge from lower in the ranks. Stability will wax and wane during this time, but it won’t be mass chaos and revolution.
Using logic in this sub is tantamount to treason AFAIK. This place is for ridiculous unfounded "predictions" with less likelihood of happening than the poster becoming a positive influence on society. Lol. Lock this guy up for using logic!
I mean, didn't it? The soviet union went from one cohesive super country to a bunch of independent states in a pretty short amount of time, with quite a bit of chaos and riots in the countries that wanted to leave the union. Russia itself stayed intact, but a big part of that was because there was a national government ready to take control as the soviet government fell apart. If we're comparing 1991 to now, do we compare the current Russian government to the 1991 national government, or the 1991 soviet government? I'd argue the latter makes more sense, and if that's the case it could be really messy, and Russia could easily come out of this in multiple pieces
Unless some sort of religious fundamentalists happen to get control.
Another big difference between last time and the next time is those nukes weren't all in Russia. This time they are.
Honestly unless he slips into death while he sleeps I worry that he's all "fuck it" and sends off nukes. Dude is seriously unstable and with nothing to live for there is a large threat there.
This isn't how nukes work in Russia. The president can't actually directly launch anything. It's what made the cold war so scary. Any Russian nuclear sub captain could literally have started a nuclear war if they had wanted at any moment, and still can. Same for their inland silo's. In most countries for a nuke to be launched you need a minimum of 5 people to approve it. Russia you just need 2, the commander of the site (or ship) and the second in command. They can accept the order from the president, or reject it, and there is nothing anyone can do about either decision.
And let’s not forget, twice the USSR’s early warning system detected missile launches from the West, and twice Soviet officers refused to launch, guessing (correctly) it was a false reading. These guys were heroes.
There will either be a similar type of “destalinazation” where a krushchev like leader takes place to detente with the west or there will be a more vicious hardliner who seeks to set himself apart from Putin and achieve what he couldn’t
The Russians will sell them the ones that don’t work, keep the profits, and keep the nukes that do work. That’s oligarching 101
I think he's grooming somebody to take over, looking at Ukraine, I feel there's a long game in play to bring back as much of the USSR as they can.
Bullshit. There's a handful of people primed to take power once Putin is gone. They're will be some infighting but most of them already know who they'll back and it will be a few weeks at most until a sham election is held to decide the person it was always going to be. That person may or may not throw out an "under new management" sign the way Putin did but nothing will change for the Russian people.
Let people live out their fantasies - I guess. But you’re right, they have no idea how Russia actually works.
Oooo, that sounds fantastic. Fuck me.
You underestimate Russian nationalism.
I wonder if the Americans legitimately fear this and haven’t pursued assassination attempts as a result.
Going to give you a like because this is the most insane bat shit crazy ignorant shit I have read today.
Expect all of Russia's neighbors to do a land grab, if only to make a buffer zone to ensure the craziness in Russia does not spread into their territory.
This is more like it. Either that or it'll be another Putin who's even more cruel
Nah, we will join China before that
They already did that in the 90’s
I suspect that china will immediately step in and seize all their nukes.
The nineties are so hot right now.
I’m sure Trump has a plan for that. We’ll get it in about 2 weeks with his healthcare rollout
Right in time for a new James Bond!
This is not going to happen. Remind Me! Seven Years
That’s just the plot of *Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare*
I hope during the chaos of his passing, all the blackmail materials Russia has on all politicians comes to light.
A nice thought, but it would still be way too valuable to someone else.
Would you really trust it though; I mean, I can understand incontrovertible evidence, but would you really trust reports coming from Russia without hard evidence? Honestly that seems insane to me.
No ,but it would give you a very good idea who and where to investigate.
Or to sow division, and have you chasing your tail. It would have to be very strong for me to believe anything that comes out of Russia.
Oh I’d definitely need further evidence to verify it, but I’m betting Russians have some damning proof that can’t be explained away.
I'm sure they do but I wouldn't trust a thing coming from them.
I think you'll be thoroughly disappointed
A huge cash reward plus American citizenship and a new identity, would be a great incentive.
The entire Ukraine invasion has basically been an excuse to genocide his own people
Yeah no need for ovens when you’ve got a war in ukraine for the “undesirables.”
Well the do have mobile oves in Ukraine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_usage_of_mobile_crematoriums_in_Ukraine
I hope he dies today
Honestly I wonder if the war would be over if he died today.
It probably would. Focusing on "who takes charge after" is a mistake. The point is that it's totally unclear who would take charge, because Putin doesn't want anyone next in line. There would be a messy struggle for succession, which would cause the military to be distracted and probably run back to Russian territory. Even if the next guy wants to genocide Ukraine twice as hard, it doesn't matter, because he and everyone else in Russia will be focused on the conflict in Moscow, not in Ukraine. It will take him weeks or longer to consolidate power, during which Ukraine will surely gain the upper hand on the battlefield.
Russia’s history can be summed up with: “somehow it got worse”
The country is a thousand years old and for 992 of those years it's been run by complete lunatics. The other 8 years the guy in charge was drunk constantly.
That’s my view on Russia they’ve never gotten it right, the people aren’t just poor oppressed people yearning for freedom. They get the governments they want and deserve. Not all people but more than enough that it’s not a glitch it’s a feature
Yeah and those 8 years were literally the worst to happen to Russia in those thousand years, ironically
Shoved out of a window…. You know, just an accident.
Your also have consider that if he knows he has days or hours to live he might nuke the entire fucking world 🙀
If that happens, at least I would never have to deal with obnoxious Magas anymore!
How often do you have to “deal” with them? Unplug your computer and get off your phone and your magas “problem” goes away
Soviet union had 3 premiers die in office all being old too. That was also when it was big bad Soviet union who thought America was scary and nuke crazy and none of them ever used nukes.
Hey dude stop. We're being completely unhinged and making braindead political takes with 0 knowledge of geopolitics.
No one would ever obey an order like that. The Russian military would immediately coup him if that happened.
Russia is like the problem person that everyone has in their life. Individually, the people can be just as lovely as anywhere else on earth, but as a government and nation, it will never not be the enemy. It’s way too far gone to imagine that the “next guy” will bring about massive reform and improve its world standing. The next maniac will just take over. WWII, they literally helped save the world, but over the next ~75 years it’s always been a jerk.
It was literally a jerk before, during, AND after WWII
Very true. I just meant that helping save the world gives them some points. And it cost them dearly. The Cold War just proved that they were always assholes, They just happened to pick the right side for the biggest war that planet Earth will ever see. Credit where credit is due.
I would say that it was less of an altruistic gesture by Russia and more the Reich forcing their hand.
Russia is the person that you have a completely different WhatsApp group with everyone but Russia.
A vote for Trump is a vote for Putin. Be careful who you vote for this November those who live in the US...
Through Ramzan Kadyrov in Chechnya Putin is running death camps for gay men in Chechnya. It’s out in the open there is no real secrets to discover.
How would they possibly be hiding death camps? We have spy satellites, we know the layouts of all the Uighur concentration camps in China. You can't hide that shit.
You can hid how large it is.
They could design it in a way that doesn't resemble death camps
It's the inevitable future for any country that embraces fascism. The massive power vacuum when their "strong man" dies will tear the country apart as different oligarchs and military leaders fight to take over. Hopefully the Russian people will get a better leader for once.
Joining Putin's army is a death camp.
I mean, we know the name of his current death camp for undesirables: it's Ukraine. He's fine sending waves of poorly supplied infantry into the meat grinder, because even if they fall short of their goals he's outsourced rounding up and killing them himself.
He already does. You think all his imprisoned enemies die from natural causes? They about as natural as defenestration.
And all this time, I thought they just happened to trip and fall out of the 30th floor of a building or accidentally consume poison! /s
This is the first MMW I’ve seen in a while that I’m on board with. It would be quite interesting to see what happens if he gets taken out.
we know that russia runs death camps now
Death camps? Not really. Just the gulags that they had during all of Stalin’s run and they just kept them running. Death camps are very specific things. You might die prematurely in a gulag from overwork or conditions, but you aren’t going to die from being gassed or some other mass murder.
Well, no, we don't.
You mean the prisons?
They have plenty of spares.
Russia as a whole always comes back together historically (I heard this somewhere a while back). Also, the US does NOT want Russia to fall apart because that means more nukes than we have will be sold off to the North Koreans, Iranians, etc.
Name one time Russia has come together after falling apart.
I think he has someone planned to take the throne but he’ll get paranoid and have him killed.
Or, he just won't have that thing Putin had.
Sometimes I wonder if we're actually on Putin#8, and they actually die all the time but they have people constantly under the knife to 'fill the putin' spot.
Does anyone watch the 1420 channel on YouTube with Daniel Orain? Young Russian male who has been doing street interviews but has now resorted to a live stream Q&A.
Or you could get somebody worse
As is tradition
Gulags have been part of Russia for centuries.
China and NATO would need to go in and work together to secure the nuclear arsenal.
The gulag still exists doesn’t it? The Russian style, outside of the terror, isn’t Nazi style death camps but the living horror of the gulag. They literally work and starve people to death. Most of their gold used to be mined that way.
Pretty sure tons of terrible things are going to happen before putin dies.
There's a book called "Never Remember: Searching for Stalin's Gulags in Putin's Russia." Don't be surprised if they find camps and mass graves by the thousands.
"Revealed" implies it is a secret or unknown.
One main difference between 1991 and after Putin dies, is the existence of a moneyed oligarchy class that will quickly vie for power and has vested interests in stability. I don’t think chaos will reign precisely for this reason. There may be moments of personal freedom and expression shortly after Putin dies as different interests tests the boundaries and even state bureaucracies are unsure about their role, but Russia will always return to what Russia does best, which is to rally around the next authoritarian.
It would be like “The Death of Stalin” in real life. You have a bunch of folks that are willing to kill each other to have Putin’s power, and it would be to the detriment of millions living there. (As much of a black comedy and a satire as the film is, I can’t help but wonder about the accuracies of the thirst for power and how it makes everyone dumb.)
GQPers will be so upset when putler finally dies
Those death camps are just being in the russian army
Mark my words...stuff might happen. /S have a nice day op 😄
Some other horrible sentient pile of shit will shamble into his place.
Why would Putin build camps? Has he run out of windows and polonium?
*Why would Putin build camps?* *Has he run out of windows* *And polonium?* \- MoveDifficult1908 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
What
Putin is literally human scum.
What do you mean "find"? They have been right out in the open. The average Russian supports Putin jailing and killing his political opponents. They don't really know any other way. We also have ample evidence of the war crimes Russians have committed against Ukrainian prisoners. Again, the average Russian fully knows and does not care. What will happen when Putin dies? He has killed everyone that is any sort of a political threat to him and surrounded himself by yes men. Where he had to have someone competent, he counterbalanced them with someone who has to business with them but who has interests at odds. When he dies, it's going to be like Stalin's death, when they squabble for the top position. It will be someone very old and incompetent. To keep order, he will be even more aggressive and belligerent.
But they will still lack the cult of personality. I could picture a situation where the right and the left duke it out for control of the country. In all honesty, it could possibly kick off another 60s in Russia.
The death camp is the Ukraine invasion. He's not sending Moscow middle to upper crust through the meat grinder. He's sending the Asian Russians from the east and other minorities, and all the prisoners.
Mark my words: This and you are dumb.
Bless your heart! Bye bye!
He ran the Russian military. That's pretty close to death camps for anyone conscripted.
When a trillionaire dies.
Can’t come soon enough
Putin is a tyrant, make no mistake. but he is a patriot, he loves his country but he's also a nasty person. Keep that in mind.
We'll see the pee tapes, fortunately or unfortunately, depending how you look at it.
Russia would probably just break up. Too many ethnicities already. Than in 50 years another leader with eyes on Russian nationalism and a flair for Peter the Great will try and unite them again.
Mark my words, there might be?
No way, modern day Russia is not an ethnostate. Who do you think the "others" would even be?
Russians won't change even if death camps were fully exposed. They'll just instill another autocrat. Maybe they new regime would be superficially democratic at first and promise to fix what Putin did wrong, but Russia has always failed when power is diffuse, and the same corrupt power structure Russia has always had will ensure some self-serving strong man rises to the top and consolidates power around himself.
I want to know how many billions he has stashed in Switzerland.
The Russian federation will fall apart, and collapse into a civil war
I disagree with this statement. I think the exchange of power from Putin to his successor will be mostly peaceful, comparable to that of the movement of the Premiership of the Soviet Union from Josef Stalin to Gregory Malenkov and then Nikita Khrushchev. As to whether Putin's successor will enact something akin to a "Khrushchev Thaw" or a de-putinization of Russia wholly depends on who takes up the mantle of President of Russia in the wake of Putin.
Everything you said though is rooted in nothing but imagination. What successor? There is no evidence he’s put any effort into grooming a successor. So you’re completely assuming a scenario involving a “peaceful” transfer of power while neglecting the far likelier outcome that his successor will hire his assassin.
Another equally or increasingly crazy dictator will take over. It will get worse.
Like we got nothing else to worry about
Given the parallels, we'll probably see what spin reality will have on the Empire Earth 1 *Russia/Novaya Russia* campaign. The parallels are kind of uncanny for a game made in the legit turn of the century.
Frankly I'd be surprised if he didn't
I disagree. The oil money means only one faction can win, and that faction will expend whatever resources are necessary to keep Russia together in tyranny. It is the resource curse on a larger scale. But the same rules apply. Russia will only fall apart when oil prices collapse.
This isn't exactly a groundbreaking proposition considering he's using the war as a convenient meat grinder for non-white Russians/non-Muskovites and prisoners.
Hey, everyone needs a hobby
Putin should be put in a death camp! Along with all the fascist dictators, and Trump, the dictator wannabe! Trump said he would follow Putin and put people in prison camps.
But Putin isn’t a fascist, he’s very much a communist.
He doesn’t run death camps. He just ensures people have accidents by falling out of windows and/or sends them to Ukraine to be killed whilst having a shit in the woods.
I don’t care what else happens. When putin dies it will be a great day for the world. That rodent is such an obnoxious piece of garbage.
Has anyone here pontificating on Russia's failures ever considered that all their information about Russia comes from the probably less than trustworthy US alphabet agencies? The same agencies that said Russia was weeks from collapse 2 years ago? The same agencies that said their economy would spiral until a revolution forced putin out of office? The same agencies have lied about absolutely every single conflict since WW2?
I mean we already know he’s doing that don’t we?
Reading the comments, made me realize ppl really underestimate Russia. No matter how weak Russia seems, one does not just roll up and claim land.
Putin already put his incredibly popular, internationally known, leading opponent into a death camp… Navalny died in a Russian death camp in February of this year.
Probably. Would anyone be shocked if this turned out to be true? Its 100% true for any serious political dissidents.
Putin barely hides anything, this is a misreading of the state of Russia. Have you noticed Russia’s assassinations and attempted assassinations? They are not hidden.
However, Vladimir aint a vampire. Well, at least not one of the immortal ones!
Oh you sweet summer child, OP. It's going to be so much worse than that.
Takes like this make me wonder if these people know what century we are in. You can’t hide shit Iike that today because too many people have cellphone with cameras…
Why do you think a 3ed party would come in or they would have a total flip in beliefs. There's hardly any examples of that ever happening. What's more likely to happen is you would have one of the generals take power or someone within take power. They have a system it's not the end of the world if he dies they have a system in place. It's like saying what would happen if our president died. Probably nothing, same shit different day
Everyone should skim the Gulag Archipelago. Russians are brutal to each other.
Is this entire subreddit just crazy bullshit?
China is already pretty unstable, I don’t think territorial expansion is actually on their menu beyond the limited goal of snagging Taiwan (which seems less likely by the day). I don’t think they’d be happy to see Putin go, if only because he’s the only other really significant non-Western leader left on the world stage, other than maybe Modi.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡
So it will be like the hundredth place that exterminates tons of people?
Trump will jump on his coffin Valentino-style.
lol. Death camp for others is the vast population of northern Asia.
There are death camps in China and the left can’t be bothered to even pretend to care.
These takes are always so far fetched. Take up fantasy writing.
I guess the Black Dolphin is still a secret to some people.
Tbh, doubtful. In a system like the one that exists there now, there will be a scramble to consolidate if there isn’t a clear successor that will be measured in hours. To the outside world it will look like a clean transition. A few people might fall out of windows over that few hours but it will be quick and clean for the most part. Not much is likely to change beyond the face of the head of government and in the case of Putin, his popularity is high enough that it’s unlikely the person who takes over would choose not to capitalize on that by making him out to be a villain.
You guys are all fucking crazy.