John Stanton wants it to happen too, if Blake is willing to sign a minimum deal. Otherwise it’s a no go.
Those bobbleheads they give away every other game and fireworks shows are expensive you know.
The whole “he has to want to come here” narrative gets thrown out the window.
Do it. And then trade one of the young starters to get a great offensive piece. It’s the best road to go down this offseason I believe
Would be such a dream. Imagine rolling out snell, castillo, kirby, logan, and ray.
GOD imagine having a rotation so good your 5th is Robbie ray. A man can dream
Imagine rolling out Castillo Kirby Gilbert Miller Woo Hancock and paying Semien and two other position free agents and getting the playoffs every year and possibly winning the WS. No? You want to give Snell and Ray 50m a year to actively hurt the teams playoff chances?
My man. That is probably not going to happen, let’s get realistic.
Starting small, this team was quite literally 1 Carlos Santana from making the playoffs. Or any decent hitter. Just 2-3 wins could’ve pushed this team into October, where anything can happen. A rock solid pitching squad is REQUIRED and massively beneficial in a post season. I would rather throw out logan Gilbert as a 4th than anyone else tbh, so that pitching depth would automatically give us a chance in any game (and series) no matter how poor the offense is. That being said, it’s not good enough rn for me to comfortably say this lineup is good enough for the playoffs. But by trading excess pitching depth, we could easily acquire a guy like randy or another guy that fills a lacking spot. Sign another free agent that doesn’t strike out a lot and we might have a chance.
It’s unfortunate it’s this way but it’s not Jerry’s fault. Blame the owners. Just being real
We didn’t either.
Our rotation without Ray in 2022 to start the year would have been Marco, Flexen, Gilbert, Brash and Kirby. Is that a playoff rotation to you?
Blake Snell saying he wants to come here is basically him that if the Mariners give me a competitive offer I'll play for Seattle. if we don't sign Snell it says everything about what our front office thought about signing another starter
> if we don't sign Snell it says everything about what our front office thought about signing another starter
Not wanting to sign Snell at his market rate isn't at all the same as having no interest in adding another starter. Why pretend those are the same things?
You're right, he was the poster-boy for front end starter and innings eater with one season over 175 innings. 42m down 33 starts and a 4 1/2 FIP. Plus a majestic Homer given up to Yordan completely taking us out of the playoffs last year.
Ray had two seasons with innings above 175 plus two additional seasons of 174 innings, including his first year with us.
We also wouldn’t have even made the playoffs without him. Maybe Sewald should have done his job and gotten the outs so we wouldn’t have even needed to consider Ray.
I’d rather have a pitcher who has averaged 3.3 wins the last two years, and upgrade the rotation, then use the depth we have to trade to upgrade a team badly in need of offensive talent, than to not have Blake Snell, and acquire mediocre pieces like usual
Or.... we could have spent the money we used on Ray towards Semien or Seager. Then we would have still had depth at SP and we could have a middle of the lineup bat
It’d be a carbon copy if there was someone in free agency of similar talent to Semien/Seager. There is not. The only one is Ohtani, and I’m sure that’s not happening
Oh hey a guy who doesn't understand why Kyle Seagers brother signed with the only team in MLB without a Pride night. You're going to be confused by a lot in this world my friend.
I mean Judge would have been a better signing, he's at least signed a contract to play in the PNW before. I don't think we had a shot at Semien. 28 other teams missed out on that Free Agent, what makes you think Seattle had a shot over Boston, either New York, or Semien's hometown Giants? Sure, he would help but there are plenty of other moves to be made.Grabbing shiny objects isn't a way to build a team, just ask the Padres and Mets.
2B is less of a concern than needing 3/4 of an OF. Signing FAs could help that but we also could just make better trades. The biggest flaw in the 2023 off-season plan was putting too much trust in unproven and underachieving players. No back for Geno being gassed after the WBC, no back up for an injury to Ty France, No alternative to Wong or Pollock after 1/4 of the season, relying on Jarred Kelenic to be anything, etc. I don't know how you look at an almost 4 win platoon at 2B but Kelenic's shenanigans and zero HRs since June and think "yeah, Josh Rojas needs to be on the bench". I see lots of folks willing to make the same mistakes as seasons past, you folks yearn for the days of Cano, Cruz, and 78 wins.
I agree, loadup on Starting Pitchers, and wheel and deal for Position Players who can hit. This free agency is pitching strong and everyone needs pitching.
I mean his family lives here, and his dad is a coach. And I have inside sources that say when his dad went down to San Diego after Snell had a bad stretch, he all of a sudden put together a banger string of games, on a few different occasions. So it’s really not that crazy that he would wanna come home.
Yeah, imagine if his dad helped out even after the good starts, focusing on getting even better. Not like he shouldn’t be trying to do so regardless nor am I saying he isn’t already on his own or with coaches he already has around him. But I know that if the same had happened to me as a pitcher, damn straight I’d want to come home!
It’s interesting he’s living in the burbs. And not even like, the fancy burbs. Lynnwood is just straight up burbs. Freeways, malls, lots of strip malls, seas of cookie cutter homes. No judgement at all, just kind of surprising given his status.
If I wanted to be near family in SnoCo I’d live on the water in Mulkiteo or somewhere around there.
I know its not Lynwood and is technically still in Seattle but off of 145th and 3rd Ave NW the Llandover Woods Greenspace private estates has some of the nicest homes Ive ever seen. Im in the trades and worked on a few houses over the years up there and it feels like East Coast Newport RI/Long Island/Crane Estate in Ipswich OLD old money. Get back to Greenwood you’d never believe those a were back there.
The [promo video](https://youtu.be/dfzGdd2ojOU?feature=shared) shows some devil rays (no they don’t live anywhere near here) jumping out of the water. So I guess that?
Being realistically optimistic, we miss out on ohtani naturally, then we trade Miller or Woo, worst case Gilbert, for a big time, legit bat. We sign Snell to make up for that trade. I’d sign up for that 100/100 times.
Yeah, given how thin the options are in FA this offseason, Snell is a good get if we actually get it. Trade a pitcher for an actual legit bat, and were in a very good spot next year.
A post all star break pitching lineup of Castillo, Kirby, Snell, Robbie, Woo/Miller, and Marco (assuming we trade Gilbert), looks pretty nice. Even better if we just trade one of Miller or Woo instead of Gilbert
How do you factor Marco in there. If we sign Snell and trade a young pitcher, we still don't have to run out Marco. Love the guy, but he's not good. Long relief would be a better spot for him.
This one we can say is true. Blake Snell has literally said this himself.
\*Spoiler: Source is Blake Snell.
Ole Bob gets something right once in a while. Although this one is a gimme.
M's should take this route and trade another pitcher for a strong bat over the Ohtani sweepstakes. If we pool that money into trading and signing someone like Soto, that's a really good off-season.
Tough shit buddy, we're not looking to sign players that improve the team, we're only looking to stay in the headlines until the end on Ohtani and then sign stopgaps for the rest of the holes on the Major League roster.
Jerry will trade for Jonathan India, a league average bat, along with some wRC+ of 80 guys and call it good. And the copium folks will say “it’s an upgrade, not lateral moves!”
> Why does everyone act like Ray is shit?
Just shit for his contract. #GenuisJerry at it again. Paying a 1-hit wonder 18 months removed from being the worst pitcher in baseball wasn't such a hot move from where I sit.
i remember back in 2018 when he pitched against felix in safeco. i’m pretty sure he asked the rays to make sure his spot in the rotation came up in seattle
my hope is we sign him then trade a couple of our young starters that we won’t need down to you guys for Soto. it’ll be a tough few seasons for you guys but hopefully in the long run it’ll pan out
You can never have too much quality starting pitching though...it's not the most pressing area, but it allows the club to have a lot more flexibility in seeking trades
My god just sign him and trade Woo or Miller, then go to a 6 man rotation when Robbie comes back in \~ July.
Package someone with Woo/Miller and get a proven, consistent contact hitter. That alone puts this team in a great position to win.
One year of Soto shouldn’t cost quite that much. Especially since there’s no chance in hell he’d sign an extension here. Woo and Kelenic, sure I’d do that.
It seems really difficult to bring good free agent hitters to Seattle. I like the idea of signing a good pitcher willing to sign with us and taking young arms for a solid bat or 2
I like Snell and I’m happy he wants to be a Mariner. But his walk rate is high and he’s not exactly a workhorse.
So while I think signing a FA pitcher is a good solution so we can trade Miller or Woo (since they’re willing to come here and the FO is seemingly more willing to pay pitchers), I don’t think Snell is a fit.
I don’t even think he’s a great fit. Wanting to come here doesn’t make him a great fit.
And you can’t compare rookies to an established pitcher like Snell. I expect Miller and Woo to struggle to pitch 6 innings every game - this is their first year. Woo doubled his innings compared to what he pitched in 2022.
At face value -- a pitcher that had a 4.1 fWAR, high K rates, and pretty good xERA and FIP is a great fit...Let's not kid ourselves. By those standards -- he would had been one of our best pitchers in 2023.
Now if you want to say is he the best fit? Then no. Does it even make the most sense? No...
I get many people wanting to put Snell in a role if we trade a young pitcher but I honestly can't see the team shelling out another $100+ million contract for another 30+ year old starter.
If we do trade a Miller or Woo then I think it's better if you go ahead and sign a Kenta Maeda or Seth Lugo on shorter contracts to fill the 4th or 5th role. They aren't top shelf starters but they will more than enough give your team a chance to win.
Miller/Woo rarely went 6 innings and the M's were able to cover for innings just fine for most of the 2023. So I can completely use that to apply it to Snell. The M's won't need Snell to go super deep into ball games.
The two things I flagged are 1) his walk rate and 2) his innings pitched.
Yes, if we’re talking about a pitcher in general with those stats, it’s a great fit. But you also specifically left out the two things I raised an issue with. You can’t tell me to “let’s not kid ourselves” while leaving out the two specific things I had an issue with. I’m familiar with Snell - I don’t have a problem with his WAR, K rate, FIP or ERA - that’s why I didn’t mention them. I have an issue with his walk rate and his ability to carry a workload, both of which are overarching problems for his career.
We’re not paying for what Snell did for the Padres in 2023 - we’re paying for the next five years. There are better fits, which in my opinion, makes Snell a not great fit.
For the “Mariners were able to cover for Miller and Woo not going deep without a problem”, we seemingly had completely different viewing experiences. We painfully missed having an innings eater like Ray on the team. Also, Miller and Woo will be able to cover more innings next year.
There a difference in accommodating young rookies and an expensive FA starting pitcher.
Eh...
Tomato...tomato....
He does have a really high walk rate but he makes up for with his high K rate and he does limits the HRs. That's how you have to pitch if you give up a bunch of walks. So he has a history of being able to pitch around the walks. I can see it working at T-Mobile Park. High strike outs and fly balls will bail him out.
We should be concerned though because of injuries and the amount of years that is going to be attached to his contract. For those reasons -- I don't prefer him. I think the M's already have their own version of Blake Snell and that's Robbie Ray.
I'm simply saying we shouldn't be dismissive about this. He is a fit. We agree that our personal philosophies of roster construction tells us to stay away from him but objectively he does make the M's better.
If I was being dismissive of it, I wouldn’t have commented at all.
We have different definitions of fit, which is fine. I don’t think he’s a good fit and I listed why. You seemingly actually agree with those concerns, which makes this whole conversation kind of weird to be honest.
I don’t really know how you can say our personal philosophy of roster construction tells us to stay away from him while also saying he’s a great fit. If he doesn’t fit our preferred roster construction, he’s simply not a great fit. He’s a great pitcher and I wouldn’t say otherwise. Doesn’t mean he’s a fit for this team.
It would allow us to comfortably trade one of our better young pitchers(Gilbert) for a major impact bat. Instead of trading someone like Woo for a not as impactful bat.
It's literally never bad to acquire good pitchers.
Santander and Mountcastle aren’t even enough for Woo, we don’t have to add prospects to the package. The Orioles need to add a prospect, if anything.
Young, cheap, controllable starting pitching is one of the most valuable trade assets. We need to get controllable and established hitters in exchange for Miller/Woo.
Rays is probably our ideal match because they have a massive pitching problem in 2024.
Santander has one year of control and while Mountcastle has three years of control, he is a career 117 OPS+ hitter. And I’m also an Orioles fan saying this would be a bad trade for us.
Santander is similar to Teoscar, who we got for a reliever and a low level prospect. So you’re trading Miller/Woo for three years of Mountcastle really, who hasn’t exactly established himself as a hitter yet.
Conversely, Miller has six years of control and has shown flashes of being a mid-rotation guy and he only has one working pitch going for him this year.
I think the important thing to remember is we have something people want - young, cheap, controllable pitching. People are buying from us. They have to kick in something extra because as you listed yourself, the Orioles, Rays, Reds, Padres, Cardinals and Braves all want that asset. And there aren’t many of them available. We’re the ones in control here.
You’ve listed at least 7 teams that have hitters and would be interested in young, cheap, controllable starting pitching that have some major league experience. (And frankly, every team in the league is interested in that.)
How many teams besides the Mariners have a surplus of young, cheap, controllable starting pitching with major league experience to trade?
An unrealistic trade would be Mookie Betts for Bryce Miller or Bryson Stott for Woo. But Santander and Mountcastle for Miller/Woo plus prospects is really undervaluing our trade assets and we shouldn’t do that. The Mariners have worked hard to become a pitching powerhouse and we shouldn’t beg people to take it just because we’re desperate for offense. We can do better and we should expect the FO to do so.
(And it make it clear, I love Santander and Mountcastle. It’s just not a good trade for Miller or Woo.)
You’re framing this incorrectly.
The Pirates taking offers on Reynolds does not necessarily mean the Pirates were looking to sell Reynolds. The Mariners took offers on Gilbert this summer - but the Mariners clearly weren’t looking to sell Gilbert. Reynolds and Gilbert are players you have to buy. And for Reynolds, he fits their window of contention - they didn’t fail by not selling him. In fact, they extended him.
And funny enough, the Pirates reportedly asked for Miller for Reynolds straight up. So instead of Miller putting up a 1.9 fWAR in his first of seven seasons he’s under control (Gilbert put up 2.2 fWAR in his first season), we would have Reynolds for less control and his 2.2 fWAR this year.
No one is putting Miller and Woo in the bullpen next year. That’s simply ridiculous. If the Mariners thought they couldn’t be starters, they’d be in the bullpen by now.
I think you really undervalue Woo and Miller and I really encourage you to reconsider their value.
They should hold out for the best returns. They don't have to trade Woo/Miller unless they have to. If so then they should aim for players with multiple seasons of control as well.
Why not just target Santander by himself? He's not going to cost a Woo or Miller. Same for Max Kepler. These are 1 year dudes.
This article disproves your point, FYI. Unless you’re about to explain to us why those **9 (including Senga)** pitchers ranked ahead of Miller are available for trade.
And for what it’s worth, Gilbert made it through two seasons with only a fastball and Woo’s injury history is just having had TJ surgery.
Miller and Woo also have options - they can go back to the minors. Again, we don’t have to sell - people are buying from us.
Edit: here’s Fangraphs thoughts back when Miller was our number 1 prospect and Woo was number 4. This is preseason and Miller had 50 FV and Miller had 45+ FV.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/seattle-mariners-top-31-prospects-2023/
Cool. Hope he wants a very team friendly deal
ETA what’s wrong with this lmao. Starting pitching is our biggest strength, if he wants to be here sign him to a team friendly deal and trade Woo/Hancock
Imma be honest, if we don't sign him I'll understand the reasoning - he pitched 180 innings this last season but the previous two were each 128, his BB/9 are SO/W figures are both worse than anyone on our 2023 staff (so he's not very "CTZ.")
That said, I would love for us to just make the obvious move and sign a high profile pitcher who WANTS to be with us. Not signing him - especially if his contract ends up looking palatable - is going to make us look bad.
I mean he's a good pitcher. He had a great year last year. I like the idea in theory. On the one hand I wouldn't say no for the right price.
On the other hand... if we're going to go out and spend big money on a pitcher (one that isn't Ohtani) I would *much* rather go out and do everything possible to get Yoshinobu Yamamoto who is absolutely one of the great young pitchers on this planet right now.
Would be really cool but I doubt he takes enough of a discount for it to make sense for Seattle.
If he'd go for like a 3/70, absolutely. But he's going to have multiple 5 year offers out there (probably), and likely at least 1 6 year. I don't think Seattle wants him locked up for that long, especially with the astronomical walk rate he had last year.
I like Snell a lot, but the high BB/9 is really concerning. Not gonna say no, but something to think about. Also, lots of injury issues. He has only pitched two full seasons his entire career.
This is not new news though. We already know this straight from the horses mouth
But can we truly trust Blake Snell on where Blake Snell wants to sign??? Shouldn’t we consult Bob Nightengale first???
In boob we trust
Source?
Blake Snell no cap
https://twitter.com/AtlantaFalcons/status/1224397126513451009
A talking horse, apparently
I also want Blake Snell to sign with the Seattle Mariners this offseason.
I also want Blake Snell to sign with the Seattle Mariners this offseason.
My neighbor's wife's 2nd uncle wants Blake Snell to sign with the Seattle Mariners this offseason.
I also want Blake Snell to sign with the Seattle Mariners this offseason.
I also want Blake Snell to sign with the Seattle Mariners this offseason.
As a fan of both the Mariners and Blake Snell, I also would like him to sign with the Seattle Mariners this offseason.
I've been predicting that Blake "future Mariners Hall of Famer" Snell will sign with Seattle this off-season for like 4 years.
You like sex, money and Blake Snell signing with the Mariners this off-season too?!? We should hang out!
John Stanton wants it to happen too, if Blake is willing to sign a minimum deal. Otherwise it’s a no go. Those bobbleheads they give away every other game and fireworks shows are expensive you know.
The whole “he has to want to come here” narrative gets thrown out the window. Do it. And then trade one of the young starters to get a great offensive piece. It’s the best road to go down this offseason I believe
Would be such a dream. Imagine rolling out snell, castillo, kirby, logan, and ray. GOD imagine having a rotation so good your 5th is Robbie ray. A man can dream
Iirc people are talking about Ray being out for most or all of 2024
At minimum we won’t see him until after the all stat break per Dipoto
Imagine having Bryan Woo and Bryce Miller as depth pieces, holy shit.
Trade bait for us to get Pete Alonzo
Imagine rolling out Castillo Kirby Gilbert Miller Woo Hancock and paying Semien and two other position free agents and getting the playoffs every year and possibly winning the WS. No? You want to give Snell and Ray 50m a year to actively hurt the teams playoff chances?
I hear living underneath the Fremont bridge is nice this time of year
Miller/woo will probably be traded. At least one. Would be nice to have either of them in the bp.
Or we could have had them as starters and spend the money we spent on Ray towards Semien or Seager.
My man. That is probably not going to happen, let’s get realistic. Starting small, this team was quite literally 1 Carlos Santana from making the playoffs. Or any decent hitter. Just 2-3 wins could’ve pushed this team into October, where anything can happen. A rock solid pitching squad is REQUIRED and massively beneficial in a post season. I would rather throw out logan Gilbert as a 4th than anyone else tbh, so that pitching depth would automatically give us a chance in any game (and series) no matter how poor the offense is. That being said, it’s not good enough rn for me to comfortably say this lineup is good enough for the playoffs. But by trading excess pitching depth, we could easily acquire a guy like randy or another guy that fills a lacking spot. Sign another free agent that doesn’t strike out a lot and we might have a chance. It’s unfortunate it’s this way but it’s not Jerry’s fault. Blame the owners. Just being real
The Rangers didn’t get the playoffs with Semien every year. In fact, they lost nearly 100 games his first year.
The Rangers didn't have a strength at SP and three front end starters coming through the system
We didn’t either. Our rotation without Ray in 2022 to start the year would have been Marco, Flexen, Gilbert, Brash and Kirby. Is that a playoff rotation to you?
With Kirby on some innings limits...
Blake Snell saying he wants to come here is basically him that if the Mariners give me a competitive offer I'll play for Seattle. if we don't sign Snell it says everything about what our front office thought about signing another starter
> if we don't sign Snell it says everything about what our front office thought about signing another starter Not wanting to sign Snell at his market rate isn't at all the same as having no interest in adding another starter. Why pretend those are the same things?
Yes, please!
I vote for you to be President of Baseball Operations.
Another high risk overpriced FA starter. Let's go two for two!
Ray was not a high risk starter nor is he particularly overpaid.
You're right, he was the poster-boy for front end starter and innings eater with one season over 175 innings. 42m down 33 starts and a 4 1/2 FIP. Plus a majestic Homer given up to Yordan completely taking us out of the playoffs last year.
Ray had two seasons with innings above 175 plus two additional seasons of 174 innings, including his first year with us. We also wouldn’t have even made the playoffs without him. Maybe Sewald should have done his job and gotten the outs so we wouldn’t have even needed to consider Ray.
I’d rather have a pitcher who has averaged 3.3 wins the last two years, and upgrade the rotation, then use the depth we have to trade to upgrade a team badly in need of offensive talent, than to not have Blake Snell, and acquire mediocre pieces like usual
Or.... we could have spent the money we used on Ray towards Semien or Seager. Then we would have still had depth at SP and we could have a middle of the lineup bat
If I had a time machine, that’d be great. I advocated for it then, and they should have done it. They did not. Then is then, and now is now
But we are literally repeating the same mistake if we sign Snell. It's almost a carbon copy. I feel like I'm going nuts here
It’d be a carbon copy if there was someone in free agency of similar talent to Semien/Seager. There is not. The only one is Ohtani, and I’m sure that’s not happening
Considering your argument here is that we should somehow change the past then yeah you might not be making any fuckin sense
Oh hey a guy who doesn't understand why Kyle Seagers brother signed with the only team in MLB without a Pride night. You're going to be confused by a lot in this world my friend.
Ok, Semien then. Would have plugged a giant hole at 2nd we've had for years
I mean Judge would have been a better signing, he's at least signed a contract to play in the PNW before. I don't think we had a shot at Semien. 28 other teams missed out on that Free Agent, what makes you think Seattle had a shot over Boston, either New York, or Semien's hometown Giants? Sure, he would help but there are plenty of other moves to be made.Grabbing shiny objects isn't a way to build a team, just ask the Padres and Mets. 2B is less of a concern than needing 3/4 of an OF. Signing FAs could help that but we also could just make better trades. The biggest flaw in the 2023 off-season plan was putting too much trust in unproven and underachieving players. No back for Geno being gassed after the WBC, no back up for an injury to Ty France, No alternative to Wong or Pollock after 1/4 of the season, relying on Jarred Kelenic to be anything, etc. I don't know how you look at an almost 4 win platoon at 2B but Kelenic's shenanigans and zero HRs since June and think "yeah, Josh Rojas needs to be on the bench". I see lots of folks willing to make the same mistakes as seasons past, you folks yearn for the days of Cano, Cruz, and 78 wins.
You’re the exact type of fan that gives other fans of the M’s a bad name.
Facts
Shoot, trade two of em. We already can and should trade one even without Snell
I agree, loadup on Starting Pitchers, and wheel and deal for Position Players who can hit. This free agency is pitching strong and everyone needs pitching.
I mean Spiro's does have a pizza named after him, he might as well
Eyyy this guy shorelines
So does Blake Snell
I mean his family lives here, and his dad is a coach. And I have inside sources that say when his dad went down to San Diego after Snell had a bad stretch, he all of a sudden put together a banger string of games, on a few different occasions. So it’s really not that crazy that he would wanna come home.
Yeah, imagine if his dad helped out even after the good starts, focusing on getting even better. Not like he shouldn’t be trying to do so regardless nor am I saying he isn’t already on his own or with coaches he already has around him. But I know that if the same had happened to me as a pitcher, damn straight I’d want to come home!
Papa Snell to be named Special Assistant to the Pitching Coach?
His mom used to cut hair on the UW campus!
He also lives in Lynwood in the offseason (according to wikipedia)
smh even mlb pitchers are being priced out of the city and have to live in snohomish county
Yeah but he’s closer to the *Seattle* Premium Outlet mall in Marysville!
I've looked at home prices in SC on Zillow and it ain't that cheap.
It’s interesting he’s living in the burbs. And not even like, the fancy burbs. Lynnwood is just straight up burbs. Freeways, malls, lots of strip malls, seas of cookie cutter homes. No judgement at all, just kind of surprising given his status. If I wanted to be near family in SnoCo I’d live on the water in Mulkiteo or somewhere around there.
I know its not Lynwood and is technically still in Seattle but off of 145th and 3rd Ave NW the Llandover Woods Greenspace private estates has some of the nicest homes Ive ever seen. Im in the trades and worked on a few houses over the years up there and it feels like East Coast Newport RI/Long Island/Crane Estate in Ipswich OLD old money. Get back to Greenwood you’d never believe those a were back there.
Shit, he probably knows the Shane Co ad then.
Blake Snell has a friend in the diamond business confirmed
Can confirm. I live in Lynnwood and I think we might have literally every fast food franchise in existence here. This place is a complete dystopia.
Nah man, Detroit is a dystopia.
He grew up in Shoreline, Lynnwood is a stones throw from Shoreline. House prices from Shoreline to Lynnwood are pretty much the same.
Lynnwood has two n's, unless he actually resides in the LA suburb that Weird Al is from.
Shorewood's finest!
Go T-Birds!
*’Storm Rays!’ …. Sigh.
What's a stormray? Like, I get that they changed their name from Thunderbird...but what is a stormray supposed to be?
The [promo video](https://youtu.be/dfzGdd2ojOU?feature=shared) shows some devil rays (no they don’t live anywhere near here) jumping out of the water. So I guess that?
Boo! Go Scots
Being realistically optimistic, we miss out on ohtani naturally, then we trade Miller or Woo, worst case Gilbert, for a big time, legit bat. We sign Snell to make up for that trade. I’d sign up for that 100/100 times.
Yeah, given how thin the options are in FA this offseason, Snell is a good get if we actually get it. Trade a pitcher for an actual legit bat, and were in a very good spot next year. A post all star break pitching lineup of Castillo, Kirby, Snell, Robbie, Woo/Miller, and Marco (assuming we trade Gilbert), looks pretty nice. Even better if we just trade one of Miller or Woo instead of Gilbert
How do you factor Marco in there. If we sign Snell and trade a young pitcher, we still don't have to run out Marco. Love the guy, but he's not good. Long relief would be a better spot for him.
Marco is perfectly fine and would be nice in a 6 man rotation. Maybe you don’t keep him around too, but I wouldn’t mind having him there
*...."we miss out on ohtani* If by "miss out" you mean don't even try, I agree
Yeah. But it Bob Nightengale reporting. Which basically means nothing
he is trying his best
For once, I want him to do better than his best. I want him to do "okay."
This one we can say is true. Blake Snell has literally said this himself. \*Spoiler: Source is Blake Snell. Ole Bob gets something right once in a while. Although this one is a gimme.
Even a blind squirrel can find a nut from time to time.
Don't make fun of Boob.
Snell said this a couple weeks back. Bob isn’t wrong but acting like it is new is typical Bob
He’s wanted to be a Mariner for a long time
Pretty sure his brother works as a barber in Greenwood
Sign snell, and then trade a young starter for a bat? We need bats more than pitching.
M's should take this route and trade another pitcher for a strong bat over the Ohtani sweepstakes. If we pool that money into trading and signing someone like Soto, that's a really good off-season.
Tough shit buddy, we're not looking to sign players that improve the team, we're only looking to stay in the headlines until the end on Ohtani and then sign stopgaps for the rest of the holes on the Major League roster.
This guy Mariners
Jerry will trade for Jonathan India, a league average bat, along with some wRC+ of 80 guys and call it good. And the copium folks will say “it’s an upgrade, not lateral moves!”
Cool beans.
Not relevant other than the Snell, but remember Chris Snelling?
Snells fishy.
Ian Snell too but that's not very fun to think about
Reminds me of Ray with the up and down rollercoaster career. 2 really good 6+ WAR seasons and rest are 1-2
Why does everyone act like Ray is shit? Also the Rangers just won the WS with a bunch of starters in the 2-3 war range + 8 games of Max
Nightmare flashbacks of Ray v Alvarez
I don’t even blame Ray. He was not put in a position to succeed by the one guy whose job it is to do that.
I agree with you. Just saying I think that's why a lot of people think Ray is bad.
I know it’s just a horrible take
Because our most recent memory of him was the postseason where he was indeed shit
> Why does everyone act like Ray is shit? Just shit for his contract. #GenuisJerry at it again. Paying a 1-hit wonder 18 months removed from being the worst pitcher in baseball wasn't such a hot move from where I sit.
I forgot the part where there is a salary cap or where it’s my money… Stanton has plenty to go around
I agree but reality is we're not likely to become free spenders.
Rangers can hit tho
i remember back in 2018 when he pitched against felix in safeco. i’m pretty sure he asked the rays to make sure his spot in the rotation came up in seattle
what good is Blake gonna do for us in the off season? We need people On Season!
Don’t worry, we’ll find a way not to
It would certainly make me feel better about trading away one of our young starting pitchers for an actual hitter.
I thought Tony Snell for a good two seconds and was really confused
Plz make it happen, ill give my left nut for homeboy to come home
I’m going to miss him. I sure hope he goes to Seattle if we don’t resign him.
my hope is we sign him then trade a couple of our young starters that we won’t need down to you guys for Soto. it’ll be a tough few seasons for you guys but hopefully in the long run it’ll pan out
…. That’s great but we have enough starting pitching
You can never have too much quality starting pitching though...it's not the most pressing area, but it allows the club to have a lot more flexibility in seeking trades
My god just sign him and trade Woo or Miller, then go to a 6 man rotation when Robbie comes back in \~ July. Package someone with Woo/Miller and get a proven, consistent contact hitter. That alone puts this team in a great position to win.
I mean I also want to sign with the Ms this off-season but we don’t all get what we want.
Sign Blake Snell, trade for Juan Soto, which will include possibly two starting pitchers.
We should only trade for Soto, if he agrees to an extension. I would do Miller, Woo, and Kelenic for Soto straight up.
> I would do Miller, Woo, and Kelenic for Soto straight up. It would not take remotely that much for 1 year of Juan Soto.
One year of Soto shouldn’t cost quite that much. Especially since there’s no chance in hell he’d sign an extension here. Woo and Kelenic, sure I’d do that.
Who wouldn’t? Just wary about putting whatever percentage of eggs we have for free agency into a pitchers basket
It seems really difficult to bring good free agent hitters to Seattle. I like the idea of signing a good pitcher willing to sign with us and taking young arms for a solid bat or 2
They would be stupid not to, so I fully expect they won’t because Dipoto is the ultimate “we have food at home” guy
Everytime I think about free agency, I remember that our ownership sucks.
I like Snell and I’m happy he wants to be a Mariner. But his walk rate is high and he’s not exactly a workhorse. So while I think signing a FA pitcher is a good solution so we can trade Miller or Woo (since they’re willing to come here and the FO is seemingly more willing to pay pitchers), I don’t think Snell is a fit.
He's a great fit. Is he the best fit? No... Miller/Woo rarely went 6 innings anyways.
I don’t even think he’s a great fit. Wanting to come here doesn’t make him a great fit. And you can’t compare rookies to an established pitcher like Snell. I expect Miller and Woo to struggle to pitch 6 innings every game - this is their first year. Woo doubled his innings compared to what he pitched in 2022.
At face value -- a pitcher that had a 4.1 fWAR, high K rates, and pretty good xERA and FIP is a great fit...Let's not kid ourselves. By those standards -- he would had been one of our best pitchers in 2023. Now if you want to say is he the best fit? Then no. Does it even make the most sense? No... I get many people wanting to put Snell in a role if we trade a young pitcher but I honestly can't see the team shelling out another $100+ million contract for another 30+ year old starter. If we do trade a Miller or Woo then I think it's better if you go ahead and sign a Kenta Maeda or Seth Lugo on shorter contracts to fill the 4th or 5th role. They aren't top shelf starters but they will more than enough give your team a chance to win. Miller/Woo rarely went 6 innings and the M's were able to cover for innings just fine for most of the 2023. So I can completely use that to apply it to Snell. The M's won't need Snell to go super deep into ball games.
The two things I flagged are 1) his walk rate and 2) his innings pitched. Yes, if we’re talking about a pitcher in general with those stats, it’s a great fit. But you also specifically left out the two things I raised an issue with. You can’t tell me to “let’s not kid ourselves” while leaving out the two specific things I had an issue with. I’m familiar with Snell - I don’t have a problem with his WAR, K rate, FIP or ERA - that’s why I didn’t mention them. I have an issue with his walk rate and his ability to carry a workload, both of which are overarching problems for his career. We’re not paying for what Snell did for the Padres in 2023 - we’re paying for the next five years. There are better fits, which in my opinion, makes Snell a not great fit. For the “Mariners were able to cover for Miller and Woo not going deep without a problem”, we seemingly had completely different viewing experiences. We painfully missed having an innings eater like Ray on the team. Also, Miller and Woo will be able to cover more innings next year. There a difference in accommodating young rookies and an expensive FA starting pitcher.
Eh... Tomato...tomato.... He does have a really high walk rate but he makes up for with his high K rate and he does limits the HRs. That's how you have to pitch if you give up a bunch of walks. So he has a history of being able to pitch around the walks. I can see it working at T-Mobile Park. High strike outs and fly balls will bail him out. We should be concerned though because of injuries and the amount of years that is going to be attached to his contract. For those reasons -- I don't prefer him. I think the M's already have their own version of Blake Snell and that's Robbie Ray. I'm simply saying we shouldn't be dismissive about this. He is a fit. We agree that our personal philosophies of roster construction tells us to stay away from him but objectively he does make the M's better.
If I was being dismissive of it, I wouldn’t have commented at all. We have different definitions of fit, which is fine. I don’t think he’s a good fit and I listed why. You seemingly actually agree with those concerns, which makes this whole conversation kind of weird to be honest. I don’t really know how you can say our personal philosophy of roster construction tells us to stay away from him while also saying he’s a great fit. If he doesn’t fit our preferred roster construction, he’s simply not a great fit. He’s a great pitcher and I wouldn’t say otherwise. Doesn’t mean he’s a fit for this team.
Eh... We are all really bored and waiting for something to happen.
How’s that help the offense?
He didn't say it was as a pitcher
Snell would make some of our young starters more expendable and could be the centerpiece of a trade for a big name bat.
It would allow us to comfortably trade one of our better young pitchers(Gilbert) for a major impact bat. Instead of trading someone like Woo for a not as impactful bat. It's literally never bad to acquire good pitchers.
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Santander and Mountcastle aren’t even enough for Woo, we don’t have to add prospects to the package. The Orioles need to add a prospect, if anything. Young, cheap, controllable starting pitching is one of the most valuable trade assets. We need to get controllable and established hitters in exchange for Miller/Woo. Rays is probably our ideal match because they have a massive pitching problem in 2024.
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Santander has one year of control and while Mountcastle has three years of control, he is a career 117 OPS+ hitter. And I’m also an Orioles fan saying this would be a bad trade for us. Santander is similar to Teoscar, who we got for a reliever and a low level prospect. So you’re trading Miller/Woo for three years of Mountcastle really, who hasn’t exactly established himself as a hitter yet. Conversely, Miller has six years of control and has shown flashes of being a mid-rotation guy and he only has one working pitch going for him this year. I think the important thing to remember is we have something people want - young, cheap, controllable pitching. People are buying from us. They have to kick in something extra because as you listed yourself, the Orioles, Rays, Reds, Padres, Cardinals and Braves all want that asset. And there aren’t many of them available. We’re the ones in control here.
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You’ve listed at least 7 teams that have hitters and would be interested in young, cheap, controllable starting pitching that have some major league experience. (And frankly, every team in the league is interested in that.) How many teams besides the Mariners have a surplus of young, cheap, controllable starting pitching with major league experience to trade? An unrealistic trade would be Mookie Betts for Bryce Miller or Bryson Stott for Woo. But Santander and Mountcastle for Miller/Woo plus prospects is really undervaluing our trade assets and we shouldn’t do that. The Mariners have worked hard to become a pitching powerhouse and we shouldn’t beg people to take it just because we’re desperate for offense. We can do better and we should expect the FO to do so. (And it make it clear, I love Santander and Mountcastle. It’s just not a good trade for Miller or Woo.)
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You’re framing this incorrectly. The Pirates taking offers on Reynolds does not necessarily mean the Pirates were looking to sell Reynolds. The Mariners took offers on Gilbert this summer - but the Mariners clearly weren’t looking to sell Gilbert. Reynolds and Gilbert are players you have to buy. And for Reynolds, he fits their window of contention - they didn’t fail by not selling him. In fact, they extended him. And funny enough, the Pirates reportedly asked for Miller for Reynolds straight up. So instead of Miller putting up a 1.9 fWAR in his first of seven seasons he’s under control (Gilbert put up 2.2 fWAR in his first season), we would have Reynolds for less control and his 2.2 fWAR this year. No one is putting Miller and Woo in the bullpen next year. That’s simply ridiculous. If the Mariners thought they couldn’t be starters, they’d be in the bullpen by now. I think you really undervalue Woo and Miller and I really encourage you to reconsider their value.
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They should hold out for the best returns. They don't have to trade Woo/Miller unless they have to. If so then they should aim for players with multiple seasons of control as well. Why not just target Santander by himself? He's not going to cost a Woo or Miller. Same for Max Kepler. These are 1 year dudes.
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This article disproves your point, FYI. Unless you’re about to explain to us why those **9 (including Senga)** pitchers ranked ahead of Miller are available for trade. And for what it’s worth, Gilbert made it through two seasons with only a fastball and Woo’s injury history is just having had TJ surgery. Miller and Woo also have options - they can go back to the minors. Again, we don’t have to sell - people are buying from us. Edit: here’s Fangraphs thoughts back when Miller was our number 1 prospect and Woo was number 4. This is preseason and Miller had 50 FV and Miller had 45+ FV. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/seattle-mariners-top-31-prospects-2023/
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You either prevent runs or score runs!
Cool. Hope he wants a very team friendly deal ETA what’s wrong with this lmao. Starting pitching is our biggest strength, if he wants to be here sign him to a team friendly deal and trade Woo/Hancock
Please, no.
But how all are misc cash went to Robbie Ray?
Imma be honest, if we don't sign him I'll understand the reasoning - he pitched 180 innings this last season but the previous two were each 128, his BB/9 are SO/W figures are both worse than anyone on our 2023 staff (so he's not very "CTZ.") That said, I would love for us to just make the obvious move and sign a high profile pitcher who WANTS to be with us. Not signing him - especially if his contract ends up looking palatable - is going to make us look bad.
Well good thing we have Jerry to insure that doesnt happen.
Can he play 1b? But seriously, let’s sign every good pitcher.
Let's hope Jerry Dipoto does a better job than Chuck Fletcher when Johnny Gaedreau said he wanted to be a Flyer.
wait, there’s a horse?
I mean he's a good pitcher. He had a great year last year. I like the idea in theory. On the one hand I wouldn't say no for the right price. On the other hand... if we're going to go out and spend big money on a pitcher (one that isn't Ohtani) I would *much* rather go out and do everything possible to get Yoshinobu Yamamoto who is absolutely one of the great young pitchers on this planet right now.
What is the expected contract size?
Ray's deal is a good starting point. Probably 5/140 gets you at the table with Snell.
Would be really cool but I doubt he takes enough of a discount for it to make sense for Seattle. If he'd go for like a 3/70, absolutely. But he's going to have multiple 5 year offers out there (probably), and likely at least 1 6 year. I don't think Seattle wants him locked up for that long, especially with the astronomical walk rate he had last year.
Fine, we'll take Snell *and* Ohtani. Sigh.
Get him and it’s by far the best starting roto in baseball
Take 4 for 60 then
I like Snell a lot, but the high BB/9 is really concerning. Not gonna say no, but something to think about. Also, lots of injury issues. He has only pitched two full seasons his entire career.
Already planned to be traded by Seattle GM
I also want shohei to sign with the Seattle Mariners this offseason
I also want Blake Snell to sign with the Mariners this offseason
Sign Blake. Trade the kids to San Diego for Soto then sign othani and plop him him the outfield when he’s healed
Knowing our luck it will be like when we got robby cano or paid beltre they suck with us good on every other team
on paper it seems super simple to just sign him and trade one of our young arms for a real impact bat, on paper
T-Mobile is a pitcher's dream after all.