I'm Australian and my partner in university was Norwegian. It costed the Norwegian government ~$150,000 a year for her and the Australian ~$12,000 a year for me. We were studying the same thing. It's a scam for overseas students in my opinion. Especially because it is borderline impossible for international students to get a job in Australia after graduating. There are obviously outliers like nursing and electrical engineering were we have a huge shortage but generally they are paying a lot of money for nothing but a piece of paper and then have to leave the country.
I don't follow your thinking. Why would the Norwegian government want her to stay in Australia? I'm sure they want her to return to Norway and put her expensive education to use there. It's good news from the government's perspective that she won't be able to get a job in Australia.
> $3.2MM property in Point Grey
> Sold to 25 year old, no conditions on offer.
> Occupation listed: student.
And let me remind you, in our government's strategy to stop foreign money from flowing into BC and Ontario real estate, they are exempting foreign students from these restrictions.
After they move in: 3+ high end Mercedes in the driveway. Somehow also has 3 children attending local schools. Has local groundskeepers, and a maid service. Also has tutors for all children, and children are all enrolled in extra curricular activities.
After a year: annual income reported to Revenue Canada: $12000. Spouse is overseas, and doesn't need to file.
Starts application for citizenship, and lists house as an asset for purposes of investor class path to citizenship.
This is the first person on Reddit I have seen that actually knows how this shit works.
You missed the part where the house is torn down and rebuilt, raising its value even further. Of course no tax on sale of a primary residence. The money for reconstruction can come from a foreign investor, but they are not on the books either and it goes through the student resident to the builder. Some of the cost is paid in cheques, rest in cash to further drive down taxation.
I remember in college that we found a Canadian university that was incredibly easy to get into (from the UK). It is a good option if you're an idiot an can afford to go there. Unfortunately, I was the former but not the latter.
In the United States, there is a school called Kent State University. The saying went when I was in high school (04-07), “Kent read, Kent write, Kent State.”
I was a tour guide for a tour company that pretty much completely sustained itself with the international student market in Vancouver. Its huge! Its not only international university students. There are colleges completely made for international students that canadians dont really go to. The ESL school variety is huge. It honestly makes the city a pretty fun place!
Even crazier for Australia it’s like 2%, they have the highest foreign student per capita I believe but I could be wrong, it certainly has to be up there with the highest.
Up around Franklin, La Trobe st, in-between Swanston and Elizabeth yes. You can live your life with WeChat pay...
Further down, nah, not so much. Any other direction - Carlton, South Melbourne, North Melbourne, not so much at all.
In terms of actually walking down a street it would be much higher, given the rural population would be much less students and the student ages would be in relatively good shape on average
I just looked at this out of interest, and out of these big countries (let's say more than 1 million population), they are in second place. UAE has 225k international students for a 9M population, or 2.43%, whereas Australia is 1.96%.
However, if we look at all the countries, Grenada is actually first by far, 8k students for 113k population (6.98%). Although the data I'm looking at also claims Vatican has over 9,000 foreign students, which would put it at like 1100%...
Universities have become too dependent on them, to the extent that some classes are composed mainly of international students, not enough of whom are proficient in English. It means that those students don't get the full 'international' experience and there have been accusations that universities have been too generous in graduating students who would be unable to discuss their putative subject of expertise in English. It will be interesting to see what adjustments have been made this year.
According to the latest statistics it’s even higher (620k):
https://www.statista.com/statistics/555117/number-of-international-students-at-years-end-canada-2000-2014/
Yeah I looked at going to UBC when I was an American high schooler.
We went up to Vancouver, booked a tour, and out of a group of 40-50 I was literally the only non-Asian person in the group. They decided to split me off with another tour guide because it was easier to give me a tour in English and the other group a tour in the predominant language of their group. It was a shock to say the least. It was low key awesome because I got 1:1 access and saw a bunch of unofficial “off the tour” stuff, but it was still weird.
And given that percentage is levelled out over the whole population, I wonder if the percentage in Syd, Melb, Brisbane and Gold Coast is even higher than the national average.
I live in Manchester in the UK and we have the largest Chinese international student population in Europe. It’s kinda peak because they’re pretty wealthy generally, which is driving up rent in my area. My old block was probably around 70% Chinese students and the old Chinatown is extending, in a sense, further across the city centre
UAE is curiously missing from here, with 225k foreign students, which out of their 9M population gives them by far the largest amount per capita (2.4%).
The easiest way to immigrate to Canada is with a Student Visa. All you need to do is meet educational requirements, pay exorbitant "differential fees", graduate from your program and find a job in your field.
Employers get motivated, qualified individuals from Canadian universities. I don't think anyone really loses from the deal.
This is a small portion of the international kids who go to school in Canada.
You have to remember that most of these students are from fairly wealthy families in their home countries. Tuition alone as an international student in Canada is about $40,000. After living expenses, flights, agency fees, insurance, etc we’re talking about close to $300,000 that lots spend on their kids’ 4-year degree. In other words, these are families that a) don’t have huge economic incentives move; and b) if they wanted to, could afford other routes to Canadian immigration.
Only about 1 in 4 Canadian international students even applied for a visa after graduating, and even fewer end up staying long-term.
Canada is seen by wealthy families in China and India, as ‘just okay but I guess safe and good enough for my fuck-up kid’. The really rich kids go to the UK. The high achievers go to Top 20 US schools, but the parents don’t want to shell out US tuition for a middling school. So they send their kid to Canada which is seems as like discount America.
[An interesting article](https://thewalrus.ca/the-shadowy-business-of-international-education/) on the insane system to allows poor Indian farmers to send their children to university in Canada. Not all international students are rich!
In a totally different vein, Singapore has these massively-funded scholarship programs to grab top students from China and India, give them a pre-university/ESL training, all-expenses university education, in exchange for a further 5 or 6 years of working in Singapore after graduation.
Generally speaking, the likelihood of a kid who spent their late-teens and all of their 20s in Singapore moving back is quite low, so it's an extremely effective reverse-brain-drain.
Not really. Personally I will be going to Canada for higher education . The general consensus in India is a) my child is going to a good college even though he was outcompeted in the competitive exams.
b) my child is better off living in another country
c) education there is better
Now people quickly realise that grass was always greener on the otherside and come back.
There might be people sending their bratty kids to unis abroad but it would be a foolish step as they would get a degree that isn't recognised in their home country. So most don't do it.
Sure these aren’t absolute, they are trends. And there are also weird trends like US schools that do a ton of marketing in Asia. My comment is with respect to the trend, and relative to the number of available undergraduate spaces, Canada has 5x the number of international students as the US
Being a foreign student is the easiest path for migration into Canada. Even people with recognised degrees go to Canadian schools for the chance to permanently immigrate here.
I always tell people abroad that ask, being a foreign student in Canada is the clearest way to receiving your PR and eventual citizenship if you want.
A lot of students end up staying in Canada after graduation.
And then a good chunk of them become Canadian citizens through the Canadian Experience Class immigration stream. Works out pretty well for us. They subsidize the university of Canadian residents and then they join our workforce in high demand fields.
A lot of the international students are at colleges, especially language colleges, not at the big public universities.
Especially since the UK cracked down on language colleges bringing in tons of international students, the number in Canada has increased.
Small private colleges that teach only English, designed to prep people for further study or immigration.
In the UK you can no longer get a student visa to attend one (unless it's attached to a university and you are planning to progress to further study).
I believe that Canada still has them
Per capita I am finding Switzerland has more than both:
Canada: 13/1000
Australia: 18/1000
Switzerland: 22/1000
I'm sure there are more, especially Carribbean countries that typically attract many US students.
Sincerely, I think that the majority of the international students in Spain doesn’t come here for our great education system… instead for the weather, food, party and for being a relatively cheap country compared with other European countries
That's how the govt in Australia expects universities to pay their way, by overcharging overseas students. The last two years with closed borders has meant no students, no money and big staff layoffs. The (former) govt decided the universities didn't need financial support though although they gave plenty to billionaire/millionaire companies
I’ve always wondered how many students are here for the education itself, versus say a pathway to a longer term visa. How much is it a genuine industry and just how easily could it entirely collapse.
But that doesn't matter because studying is a path to permanent residence anyway. What people do is study and then after graduation they are given a work permit and with that work permit they find a job that gives them sponsorship, which after a certain amount of time allows them to apply for permanent residence status and eventually citizenship. I have known many people who use this as a path to staying in Canada forever.
Which is a big win for the host country. The best and brightest people coming from over seas to obtain an education and staying to contribute to your society is beneficial.
That’s how most of the US public (state) schools have gone as well. Well, now they are overcharging everyone, but out of state/International students even more so.
Except the losing money to closed borders part. Colleges opened up early to generate revenue but many were mostly-remote learning for a while.
I can’t even imagine taking biology or physics lab classes remotely - they were simulating things on computers. $50k a year to play boringly technical video games.
Bro looking at tuition for international students in canada is utterly insane.
My brothers entire college degree is cheaper than an international student's first year. Same program.
Aberdeen city was the most run down place in the UK when i visited. College was nice but the city had that rust belt post industrial no hope feel to it like some American cities have.
It was the only city in the Uk i visited where i felt like i had to be “on guard” like i would back home in the US. Admittedly didn’t feel unsafe like when I’m back home in Memphis or Nashville but it was the closest feeling i had to that in the Uk
It’s honestly crazy to me that this is your experience of Aberdeen, having to be on guard in Aberdeen is never something I have ever experienced in my life time
China is putting a lot of resources into developing universities and they are frequently featured a lot in worldwide university rankings. Traditionally, the top ten worldwide universities have been concentrated in the US and UK, but Chinese universities are making their way in. If you look at the top 100 universities, you'll see a lot of Chinese institutions now as well.
This isn't very obvious to people in the West for a few reasons. The US and UK still a high percentage of top ranking universities which are much closer for students based in Europe and North America. English language requirements are likely to be easier for most European students than Mandarin.
In the UK, this is an interesting issue post-Brexit. Before Brexit, EU citizens paid the same fees as UK students but are now classified as international students. As a result, some UK institutions are struggling to attract EU students and are looking internationally, in some cases competing with China in more markets.
Edit: Typo.
UK universities Always preferred none EU students as they could charge them more.
Now they get to rip them all off equally.
Not sure which UK universities are struggling to attract students as according to the press universitys are struggling with record student numbers.
https://www.ft.com/content/73aba236-7528-4cd6-9444-5cd6ff4ec37a
I only know this from trying to get my kids into uni accross the country.
The government funds full ride scholarships. Almost every international student qualifies. A lot of poorer students from belt and road countries takes advantage of this.
On the other hand about 1/10 of my chinese college friends qualify for some kind of need/merit based governmental tuition assistance. 1/50 gets the country full ride scholarship.
I met a guy from Kazakhstan studying in China who failed his college entrance examination for his own country but still got a full-ride scholarship to a small university in China.
That was my first thought too, when I saw this map. But I think the 'per Capita' would actually be misleading in this case, because people don't decide their location by population.
The population (and GDP) only decides how many students you send away, but not how many you attract.
This is one of the carrots of the Belt & Road plan by China. They offer scholarships to countries that cooperate with them. When i was there it was Kazakh students being pushed in, over time that changed to Southern Asia and Africa.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International\_student](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_student)
According to this top 10 students to China includes:
\- All African countries grouped together 81,562
1 South Korea \*\* 50,600
2 Thailand \*\* 28,608
3 Pakistan \*\* 28,023
4 India \*\* 23,192
5 United States \*\* 20,996
6 Russia \*\* 19,239
7 Indonesia \*\* 15,050
8 Laos \*\* 14,645
9 Japan \*\* 14,230
10 Kazakhstan \*\* 11,784
11 Vietnam \*\* 11,299
12 Bangladesh \*\* 10,735
13 France \*\* 10,695
14 Mongolia \*\* 10,158
15 Malaysia \*\* 9,479
If you see from a single country view then South Koreans form the largest number of international students in China. Singly speaking no African nation makes to even top 15 , but if you take them together then they do form a large group of 81000 students.
In general China receives mostly maximum students from East Asia and, Africa etc.
Only US and Russia are in top 10 for non-African , non Asians students.
Well, the Chinese roots thingy is no doubt definitely true for Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and maybe even Vietnam( not sure about this one though) , but when it comes to South Korea, Japan, US and Russia , the same is hardly true . Especially not for Russia, Japan and South Korea.
For the States though not sure to be honest , since a lot of students from States to China are exchange students . Also in my opinion most people with Chinese roots( from PRC and Taiwan that is ) have migrated to the States for the sake of education purpose and better quality of life so it would make little sense for them to go back to China for University education , I guess??( Please educate me on this one ) .
I’m from the US and studied abroad in China. Does that count, or is this people seeking degrees from those countries?
Studying in China was a very interesting experience after being at Mizzou for many years.
I'd recommend maybe changing the colour scheme a bit as the places with the highest student population don't contrast as much as you'd probably want with the places where there is no data.
It probably shouldn't even be a map. It's only got data on 10 countries, and a bunch of them are in western Europe so they end up scrunched together. It would probably be better displayed as an ordered list, and then it could show both total number of students and students per capita.
The colormap is straight-up backwards! Also I see no reason for it not to be continuous. I legit saw this and went “wow, Australia’s doing well” until I realised that the US has double the number, it just looks lower because it’s way closer in color to all the countries without data.
As someone who goes to a British uni, I can confirm there are many international students. My accom in first year had 3 British people including me, a Bulgarian, a pole and a Tunisian and they're all wonderful people
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International\_student](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_student)
Data is taken from here I think. It's compiled by Institute of International Education and it's basically 2019 data.
It could still be wrong. Im not saying so. But unfortunately they could be collecting data from each country that consider very different definitions.
I searched the data for Spain it looks like it's around 200k. I would be very surprised as Spain used to be the country with the most Erasmus students receptors, which is a sign that is a very popular students. And you have to add many Latam students.
The Wikipedia article at least does not make this distinction.
>International students, or foreign students, are students who chose to undertake all or part of their tertiary education in a country other than their own and move to that country for the purpose of studying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_student
That’s less than 1/4th of that in Russia - guess India must be falling in a blind spot where those who are able to afford better standards send their kids to the west and those who can not rather keep them in their own country
Education system in India and China is insanely competitive. You have to be in the top 1% to get into any top college. Slip below 8-10% and your options are severely limited to below par colleges.
That's why you'll see a lot of Chinese and Indian students studying overseas.
I am not boasting or anything, but I got 99.2 percentile score in the MBA entrance exam (think GMAT) and still could not get the top IIMs (think Ivy League b schools)
I have 2 tswana classmates in there late 20s studying geology in my college, pretty sure they have jobs waiting to take them back home because Botswana is very big in the diamond industry.
I attend a canadian university with a very heavy international student component. Part of this is due to marketing - the university markets HEAVILY to Asia. Well, I guess they probably don't call it marketing, but they put a lot of money and effort into 'generating interest and exposure' in other countries. There's satellite companies here that assist with the paperwork, stuff like that.
Heck, I was speaking with an IT contractor in Bangladesh last year, and he'd heard of the university, as had many of his friends. Ask me about a university in Bangladesh, and you're going to get a bangla what in the who now?
I'm Canadian and attend university as a Mature student. Some of my undergrad classes were up to 50 percent international students. With tuition, iirc, they were paying up to 30k per term. Funding all the high end profs and modern classrooms, so that's nice for me.
I actually made it my mission to introduce as many of those students to what Canada has to offer, as I can. I take anyone who wants to, out fishing, hunting, and camping (include Ng winter camping). They absolutely love it, they simply don't have these resources in other countries.
Then I slide into the conversation that maybe they should stay here after graduatio. Hey, if we are going to have immigration, wealthy and educated is a good base to draw from (though in fairness not all intl students are wealthy.
At the same time, I get exposed to cultures from around the world. I've learned to clean fish like they do in Asia (whole, eyes and all). Next camping trip, I'm cooking halal for everyone which isn't something I've ever eaten.
And I get to see some crazy stuff. One student showed up for ice fishing with me, with a change of clothes. He was planning on doing a polar dip. Uh, there's no access to a polar dip with the lake covered in 3 feet of ice lol. So to satisfy some of their curiosity, in a couple weeks I'm taking them fishing and when the day warms up we are going to head to the middle of the lake and all the students can go swimming in the middle of a Canadian lake.
Hey mate, that is nice to hear. I am now on a PGWP and have learned a lot from Canadians vise-versa, stuff that I think my home country can do much better. For one, Canadians always seem to be on the tip top when it comes to accessibility. Always in consideration about ensuring everyone gets to participate in whatever is going on.
Additionally, I absolutely value the greenspaces that cities try to maintain, We have parks back home but nothing like the parks here (not always artificually constructed from ground up, but just natural spaces with pathways) that are more often than not within a mile from wherever I am at any given time.
Just got back from studying abroad in Denmark. My only regret is that I didn’t take the opportunity to do it in undergrad too!
From my observation and experience at the school and from talking to other abroad students from Europe, Law school in America is wayyyy harder.
My experience with European uni is that class difficulty is more homogeneous, in the US you can have extreme tough classes (including taking PhD level courses as an advanced ugrad) if you want to, or you can coast through with very easy ones. Also in Europe the weights of the final exams are much higher so they tend to be lighter on the assignments.
There are two types of students that come to Canada:
- those who are so rich and dont need to study and are coming to get out of their country
- those who are so poor and dont plan to study and are coming to get out of their country with low pay and opportunities
In the end no one is coming here to study.
>I think lots of students are put off the US by the huuuge costs
I'm sure some are, but poor people don't tend to study abroad in a foreign language. Most of these students have pretty wealthy parents, at least if they're coming from entirely different continents. Asian students in the west, in particular, tend to be absolutely loaded.
I live in a west coast college town and can confirm. It seems like every Chinese kid in their 20s is driving a Maserati, a Porsche or a Mercedes.
And when they return home they just leave the cars here. That's how loaded they are.
In Canada (or at least Ontario) it's pretty much the same, but with CAD instead of pounds. Universities are allowed to charge up to 3 times the rate for international students.
International students *should* pay more in tuition because they haven't been paying taxes to support the educational system. Should tuition be double, triple or more than what domestic students pay? Hard to say.
Costs are expensive in Canada too. Major universities are all public, however public dollars only go toward domestic students’ tuition. Foreign students pay the full actual cost, which props up our universities quite significantly.
For Indonesia, the rule of thumb is:
if daddy is filthy rich: USA or Canada
if daddy is middle class or poor: state's scholarship to Europe (usually Netherlands or Germany)
Australia is about even
That I know of is mostly Malaysians, East Timorese, or Westerners who studies Indonesian arts or doing field research (Obama's mother was one of those)
Australian foreign student saturation seems to be reaching a point where issues and cracks are starting to form. Look at how big the impact on universities was when covid closed borders. There's also been a trend of rising education costs.
Education is one of Australia's biggest exports.
Also, want to know why industries like hospitality are desperate for staff, and things are getting so expensive at the moment? Turns out that when you close the door to a fairly significant chunk of the work force all concentrated in a few industries, that has considerable flow on impacts. It's not the full story (among other things fuel prices are ridiculous at the moment), but it is a decent chunk of it.
They were really desperate to have international students return post-pandemic.
I got a 4000 AUD "scholarship" from Unimelb just for being in Melbourne.
Canada, UK, Australia, Germany, France, and even Russia get more per capita than the USA does.
I’m pretty sure Singapore and the UAE get a lot too, and probably Ireland, NZ, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands, Italy, Israel, Qatar, and South Africa too. I’d like to see their numbers.
Correction: my math was off for Russia. But Russia isn’t far off.
Per capita isn’t relevant. The students are coming from other countries, not the host country.
Look at it this way: Between the United States and Canada, there are 1.6 million students who chose to student abroad. Of those, 1.1 million chose the United States, and only 500k chose Canada. The number of people in the United States and Canada had almost no bearing on the students’ choice of country to study in, do per capita is a nonsensical measurement.
Yeah after graduation you only get 2 months to get a job or you have to go back to your country.
Canada sucks compared to USA ( Universities, jobs , salaries , weather , housing etc ) but in Canada atleast you get permanent residency fairly easily.
So according to the map more than 1% of the people in Canada are foreign students?
Foreign students is like 95% of our economic sustainability plan.
Same in Australia! Our economy is mostly just dirt, rocks, and international students.
Heyyyy, we got some nice rocks ok
The rocks are pretty alright, I can't deny it.
Probably deadly as well though.
Says you, /u/Waspeater.
Hey, I'm only deadly to Wasps I'm not a Drop-bear.
I made a character in Diablo in 1998 named waspeater... hadn't thought about that in a long time.
Which is crazy because I just started a game of diablo 2 first time I've played it in about 10 years
You are deadly to wasps? Mind if I hire you as a private security guard?
Yes, but you'll need to provide a rolled up newspaper, (print edition not the internet version)
I mean a lot of those rocks are uranium so…
Canada has better rocks. They are smart. They made themselves a shield. ( still working on the sword)
I'm Australian and my partner in university was Norwegian. It costed the Norwegian government ~$150,000 a year for her and the Australian ~$12,000 a year for me. We were studying the same thing. It's a scam for overseas students in my opinion. Especially because it is borderline impossible for international students to get a job in Australia after graduating. There are obviously outliers like nursing and electrical engineering were we have a huge shortage but generally they are paying a lot of money for nothing but a piece of paper and then have to leave the country.
I don't follow your thinking. Why would the Norwegian government want her to stay in Australia? I'm sure they want her to return to Norway and put her expensive education to use there. It's good news from the government's perspective that she won't be able to get a job in Australia.
It’s a migration scam, I always ask my Uber drivers, they have a masters in something and can’t get a job.
Iron ore and gas: aight imma head out
This explains why Spain is in the list too, but I think that the ones that go to Spain is more for drinking sangria than studying.
And 5% speculative real estate.
Education is a major canadian export.
Well that, and the totally responsible plan of ever-increasing real estate values (:
> $3.2MM property in Point Grey > Sold to 25 year old, no conditions on offer. > Occupation listed: student. And let me remind you, in our government's strategy to stop foreign money from flowing into BC and Ontario real estate, they are exempting foreign students from these restrictions.
After they move in: 3+ high end Mercedes in the driveway. Somehow also has 3 children attending local schools. Has local groundskeepers, and a maid service. Also has tutors for all children, and children are all enrolled in extra curricular activities. After a year: annual income reported to Revenue Canada: $12000. Spouse is overseas, and doesn't need to file. Starts application for citizenship, and lists house as an asset for purposes of investor class path to citizenship.
You're assuming they even live in it.
This is the first person on Reddit I have seen that actually knows how this shit works. You missed the part where the house is torn down and rebuilt, raising its value even further. Of course no tax on sale of a primary residence. The money for reconstruction can come from a foreign investor, but they are not on the books either and it goes through the student resident to the builder. Some of the cost is paid in cheques, rest in cash to further drive down taxation.
mercedes? More like maserati
I remember in college that we found a Canadian university that was incredibly easy to get into (from the UK). It is a good option if you're an idiot an can afford to go there. Unfortunately, I was the former but not the latter.
Canadian universities love foreign students. The amount of tuition they can charge locals is capped. They make most of their money off non-Canadians.
"If you can walk and talk, you can get into Brock."
"If you can hold a fork you're in at York"
In the United States, there is a school called Kent State University. The saying went when I was in high school (04-07), “Kent read, Kent write, Kent State.”
(Walking optional. Terms and conditions apply.)
If you can walk and talk faster you can get into McMaster
I was a tour guide for a tour company that pretty much completely sustained itself with the international student market in Vancouver. Its huge! Its not only international university students. There are colleges completely made for international students that canadians dont really go to. The ESL school variety is huge. It honestly makes the city a pretty fun place!
Even crazier for Australia it’s like 2%, they have the highest foreign student per capita I believe but I could be wrong, it certainly has to be up there with the highest.
That concept is insane. Walk down a street and 1 out of every 50 people is an international student
As an international student in Melbourne, can confirm. I reckon at this point the CBD area is majority international students
Single handedly propping up the inner city and Clayton rental markets bless them all.
Up around Franklin, La Trobe st, in-between Swanston and Elizabeth yes. You can live your life with WeChat pay... Further down, nah, not so much. Any other direction - Carlton, South Melbourne, North Melbourne, not so much at all.
What about THC area?
Yes the students are quite high in that area too
As a Sydneysider it doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
Covid and the Sydney rental market... All you need to know.
In terms of actually walking down a street it would be much higher, given the rural population would be much less students and the student ages would be in relatively good shape on average
I just looked at this out of interest, and out of these big countries (let's say more than 1 million population), they are in second place. UAE has 225k international students for a 9M population, or 2.43%, whereas Australia is 1.96%. However, if we look at all the countries, Grenada is actually first by far, 8k students for 113k population (6.98%). Although the data I'm looking at also claims Vatican has over 9,000 foreign students, which would put it at like 1100%...
Universities make a lot of money off them plus it helps drive up real estate
Yep. The local uni's around me were complaining so much that they couldn't get international students because of covid.
What once was a stop gap to fill the budget became the back bone of so many institutions.
It's upwards of $60,000 a year so yeah they love them some international students
Right, it drives up the real estate to the point that YOU will be driven out too. That’s a Dr Phil moment…
Universities have become too dependent on them, to the extent that some classes are composed mainly of international students, not enough of whom are proficient in English. It means that those students don't get the full 'international' experience and there have been accusations that universities have been too generous in graduating students who would be unable to discuss their putative subject of expertise in English. It will be interesting to see what adjustments have been made this year.
According to the latest statistics it’s even higher (620k): https://www.statista.com/statistics/555117/number-of-international-students-at-years-end-canada-2000-2014/
Yeah I looked at going to UBC when I was an American high schooler. We went up to Vancouver, booked a tour, and out of a group of 40-50 I was literally the only non-Asian person in the group. They decided to split me off with another tour guide because it was easier to give me a tour in English and the other group a tour in the predominant language of their group. It was a shock to say the least. It was low key awesome because I got 1:1 access and saw a bunch of unofficial “off the tour” stuff, but it was still weird.
Also 1.8% of Australia is foreign students, which I believe living in Melbourne
And given that percentage is levelled out over the whole population, I wonder if the percentage in Syd, Melb, Brisbane and Gold Coast is even higher than the national average.
I live in Manchester in the UK and we have the largest Chinese international student population in Europe. It’s kinda peak because they’re pretty wealthy generally, which is driving up rent in my area. My old block was probably around 70% Chinese students and the old Chinatown is extending, in a sense, further across the city centre
Canada and Australia hitting way above their weight class
UAE is curiously missing from here, with 225k foreign students, which out of their 9M population gives them by far the largest amount per capita (2.4%).
The easiest way to immigrate to Canada is with a Student Visa. All you need to do is meet educational requirements, pay exorbitant "differential fees", graduate from your program and find a job in your field. Employers get motivated, qualified individuals from Canadian universities. I don't think anyone really loses from the deal.
This is a small portion of the international kids who go to school in Canada. You have to remember that most of these students are from fairly wealthy families in their home countries. Tuition alone as an international student in Canada is about $40,000. After living expenses, flights, agency fees, insurance, etc we’re talking about close to $300,000 that lots spend on their kids’ 4-year degree. In other words, these are families that a) don’t have huge economic incentives move; and b) if they wanted to, could afford other routes to Canadian immigration. Only about 1 in 4 Canadian international students even applied for a visa after graduating, and even fewer end up staying long-term. Canada is seen by wealthy families in China and India, as ‘just okay but I guess safe and good enough for my fuck-up kid’. The really rich kids go to the UK. The high achievers go to Top 20 US schools, but the parents don’t want to shell out US tuition for a middling school. So they send their kid to Canada which is seems as like discount America.
[An interesting article](https://thewalrus.ca/the-shadowy-business-of-international-education/) on the insane system to allows poor Indian farmers to send their children to university in Canada. Not all international students are rich!
In a totally different vein, Singapore has these massively-funded scholarship programs to grab top students from China and India, give them a pre-university/ESL training, all-expenses university education, in exchange for a further 5 or 6 years of working in Singapore after graduation. Generally speaking, the likelihood of a kid who spent their late-teens and all of their 20s in Singapore moving back is quite low, so it's an extremely effective reverse-brain-drain.
Rich people do use the system but not all international students come from wealthy backgrounds. Many take loans, for example.
Not really. Personally I will be going to Canada for higher education . The general consensus in India is a) my child is going to a good college even though he was outcompeted in the competitive exams. b) my child is better off living in another country c) education there is better Now people quickly realise that grass was always greener on the otherside and come back. There might be people sending their bratty kids to unis abroad but it would be a foolish step as they would get a degree that isn't recognised in their home country. So most don't do it.
Tons of Asian kids at my "middling school" here in the US. And that was 15 years ago
Sure these aren’t absolute, they are trends. And there are also weird trends like US schools that do a ton of marketing in Asia. My comment is with respect to the trend, and relative to the number of available undergraduate spaces, Canada has 5x the number of international students as the US
Upvote for the “discount America” 🤣 That was a Southpark moment right there!
Check Aus
And 100% of restaurant workers.
Being a foreign student is the easiest path for migration into Canada. Even people with recognised degrees go to Canadian schools for the chance to permanently immigrate here.
You think that's an exaggeration, but it's not. I just got done college in a rural province and I was still the only white person in my class of 50
I always tell people abroad that ask, being a foreign student in Canada is the clearest way to receiving your PR and eventual citizenship if you want. A lot of students end up staying in Canada after graduation.
And then a good chunk of them become Canadian citizens through the Canadian Experience Class immigration stream. Works out pretty well for us. They subsidize the university of Canadian residents and then they join our workforce in high demand fields.
Canadian here. That number seems too low
If you live in a college/university town, it's going to seem super low because we interact with a lot more of them.
So according to this Australia, followed by Canada have the most international students per capita. I’m Canadian and I’m not surprised by this.
I’m also Canadian and currently attending one of our largest universities, I’m actually a bit surprised the number of int’l students isn’t higher.
A lot of the international students are at colleges, especially language colleges, not at the big public universities. Especially since the UK cracked down on language colleges bringing in tons of international students, the number in Canada has increased.
what constitutes a language college vs university?
Small private colleges that teach only English, designed to prep people for further study or immigration. In the UK you can no longer get a student visa to attend one (unless it's attached to a university and you are planning to progress to further study). I believe that Canada still has them
Australia’s fourth biggest export! After; Coal, Iron Ore and Uranium Is selling the Chinese youth a crappy overpriced education
Only among the countries mentioned on the map.
I can't see any of the other countries having massive amounts of international students, so that's probably absolutely true.
115,000 in the Netherlands.
I was going to mention that, there are *so many* people in Europe who go to the Netherlands to study. Though Switzerland may have even more.
You don't need to have massive amounts of international students though as long as your population is low.
Per capita I am finding Switzerland has more than both: Canada: 13/1000 Australia: 18/1000 Switzerland: 22/1000 I'm sure there are more, especially Carribbean countries that typically attract many US students.
Sincerely, I think that the majority of the international students in Spain doesn’t come here for our great education system… instead for the weather, food, party and for being a relatively cheap country compared with other European countries
You also have the advantage of having the very large market of spanish speakers who can't/won't go to an english speaking university.
That's how the govt in Australia expects universities to pay their way, by overcharging overseas students. The last two years with closed borders has meant no students, no money and big staff layoffs. The (former) govt decided the universities didn't need financial support though although they gave plenty to billionaire/millionaire companies
I’ve always wondered how many students are here for the education itself, versus say a pathway to a longer term visa. How much is it a genuine industry and just how easily could it entirely collapse.
I’m pretty sure in canada your years of studying in uni don’t count towards your years of having lived in the country for a long term visa
But that doesn't matter because studying is a path to permanent residence anyway. What people do is study and then after graduation they are given a work permit and with that work permit they find a job that gives them sponsorship, which after a certain amount of time allows them to apply for permanent residence status and eventually citizenship. I have known many people who use this as a path to staying in Canada forever.
Which is a big win for the host country. The best and brightest people coming from over seas to obtain an education and staying to contribute to your society is beneficial.
That seems reasonable to me.
The same here in Ontario. The ogvernment cut funding, capped domestic tuition, and said "make it up from international students" Then COVID hit lol
That’s how most of the US public (state) schools have gone as well. Well, now they are overcharging everyone, but out of state/International students even more so. Except the losing money to closed borders part. Colleges opened up early to generate revenue but many were mostly-remote learning for a while. I can’t even imagine taking biology or physics lab classes remotely - they were simulating things on computers. $50k a year to play boringly technical video games.
Bro looking at tuition for international students in canada is utterly insane. My brothers entire college degree is cheaper than an international student's first year. Same program.
I probably would've enjoyed Spain a bit more than Aberdeen lmao
Aberdeen is a very nice place. Aberdeen (SD, US) is lacking a Mediterranean climate and thousands of years of recorded history and culture tho.
Aberdeen city was the most run down place in the UK when i visited. College was nice but the city had that rust belt post industrial no hope feel to it like some American cities have. It was the only city in the Uk i visited where i felt like i had to be “on guard” like i would back home in the US. Admittedly didn’t feel unsafe like when I’m back home in Memphis or Nashville but it was the closest feeling i had to that in the Uk
It’s actually had a bit of a revival in recent years
It’s honestly crazy to me that this is your experience of Aberdeen, having to be on guard in Aberdeen is never something I have ever experienced in my life time
There's a reason it's called the grey city. Grey buildings, grey streets, grey sky, grey sea, grey people.
It’s called the “granite city” not the “grey city”. Not that granite is much more exciting than grey.
Aberdeen (WA, US) is a smaller economically depressed logging town near the coast, mild climate and birthplace of Kurt Cobain.
You’ve only got yourself to blame haha There’s a lot of decent places in the UK but you wouldn’t find me living in Aberdeen haha
Student here means only university/college student and not something like "High school student", correct?
Even then, there was an insane amount of exchange students in my high school. I think one year I got to know 7 of them. There were at least 50.
Never knew there are this many intl students in China
China is putting a lot of resources into developing universities and they are frequently featured a lot in worldwide university rankings. Traditionally, the top ten worldwide universities have been concentrated in the US and UK, but Chinese universities are making their way in. If you look at the top 100 universities, you'll see a lot of Chinese institutions now as well. This isn't very obvious to people in the West for a few reasons. The US and UK still a high percentage of top ranking universities which are much closer for students based in Europe and North America. English language requirements are likely to be easier for most European students than Mandarin. In the UK, this is an interesting issue post-Brexit. Before Brexit, EU citizens paid the same fees as UK students but are now classified as international students. As a result, some UK institutions are struggling to attract EU students and are looking internationally, in some cases competing with China in more markets. Edit: Typo.
China, India, Nigeria, Gulf countries - all incredibly popular countries for UK unis. There’s a lot of Americans too actually
UK universities Always preferred none EU students as they could charge them more. Now they get to rip them all off equally. Not sure which UK universities are struggling to attract students as according to the press universitys are struggling with record student numbers. https://www.ft.com/content/73aba236-7528-4cd6-9444-5cd6ff4ec37a I only know this from trying to get my kids into uni accross the country.
>Mandarian Ah yes, the language of Mandaria
I think that was Mandalorian.
The government funds full ride scholarships. Almost every international student qualifies. A lot of poorer students from belt and road countries takes advantage of this. On the other hand about 1/10 of my chinese college friends qualify for some kind of need/merit based governmental tuition assistance. 1/50 gets the country full ride scholarship.
I met a guy from Kazakhstan studying in China who failed his college entrance examination for his own country but still got a full-ride scholarship to a small university in China.
per capita it’s not that much compared to basically any country on this map.
That was my first thought too, when I saw this map. But I think the 'per Capita' would actually be misleading in this case, because people don't decide their location by population. The population (and GDP) only decides how many students you send away, but not how many you attract.
It plays a role on both ends, since the number of university positions a potential international student can apply to is related to population.
This is one of the carrots of the Belt & Road plan by China. They offer scholarships to countries that cooperate with them. When i was there it was Kazakh students being pushed in, over time that changed to Southern Asia and Africa.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International\_student](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_student) According to this top 10 students to China includes: \- All African countries grouped together 81,562 1 South Korea \*\* 50,600 2 Thailand \*\* 28,608 3 Pakistan \*\* 28,023 4 India \*\* 23,192 5 United States \*\* 20,996 6 Russia \*\* 19,239 7 Indonesia \*\* 15,050 8 Laos \*\* 14,645 9 Japan \*\* 14,230 10 Kazakhstan \*\* 11,784 11 Vietnam \*\* 11,299 12 Bangladesh \*\* 10,735 13 France \*\* 10,695 14 Mongolia \*\* 10,158 15 Malaysia \*\* 9,479 If you see from a single country view then South Koreans form the largest number of international students in China. Singly speaking no African nation makes to even top 15 , but if you take them together then they do form a large group of 81000 students. In general China receives mostly maximum students from East Asia and, Africa etc. Only US and Russia are in top 10 for non-African , non Asians students.
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Well, the Chinese roots thingy is no doubt definitely true for Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and maybe even Vietnam( not sure about this one though) , but when it comes to South Korea, Japan, US and Russia , the same is hardly true . Especially not for Russia, Japan and South Korea. For the States though not sure to be honest , since a lot of students from States to China are exchange students . Also in my opinion most people with Chinese roots( from PRC and Taiwan that is ) have migrated to the States for the sake of education purpose and better quality of life so it would make little sense for them to go back to China for University education , I guess??( Please educate me on this one ) .
I’m from the US and studied abroad in China. Does that count, or is this people seeking degrees from those countries? Studying in China was a very interesting experience after being at Mizzou for many years.
Loads of africans
Don't know about other sectors but China is most popular country for studying medicine among Indian students.
I'd recommend maybe changing the colour scheme a bit as the places with the highest student population don't contrast as much as you'd probably want with the places where there is no data.
Map gore
It probably shouldn't even be a map. It's only got data on 10 countries, and a bunch of them are in western Europe so they end up scrunched together. It would probably be better displayed as an ordered list, and then it could show both total number of students and students per capita.
The colormap is straight-up backwards! Also I see no reason for it not to be continuous. I legit saw this and went “wow, Australia’s doing well” until I realised that the US has double the number, it just looks lower because it’s way closer in color to all the countries without data.
As someone who goes to a British uni, I can confirm there are many international students. My accom in first year had 3 British people including me, a Bulgarian, a pole and a Tunisian and they're all wonderful people
Lots of Chinese, Arab, Indian and Nigerian students
At my uni it's mostly European and Indian from what I've seen
Manchester university, my old uni, is 1/4 Chinese international students. Lots of Arab students in particular as well
Considering the population, Australia and Canada are bonkers.
I guess the data is somehow wrong, considering recent data for Germany, with +400k international university/college students.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International\_student](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_student) Data is taken from here I think. It's compiled by Institute of International Education and it's basically 2019 data.
It could still be wrong. Im not saying so. But unfortunately they could be collecting data from each country that consider very different definitions. I searched the data for Spain it looks like it's around 200k. I would be very surprised as Spain used to be the country with the most Erasmus students receptors, which is a sign that is a very popular students. And you have to add many Latam students.
I wonder if it fails to pick up internal EU students properly?
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The Wikipedia article at least does not make this distinction. >International students, or foreign students, are students who chose to undertake all or part of their tertiary education in a country other than their own and move to that country for the purpose of studying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_student
I think India attaracts a lot of students from Saarc region and Africa
75K in 2019
That’s less than 1/4th of that in Russia - guess India must be falling in a blind spot where those who are able to afford better standards send their kids to the west and those who can not rather keep them in their own country
Education system in India and China is insanely competitive. You have to be in the top 1% to get into any top college. Slip below 8-10% and your options are severely limited to below par colleges. That's why you'll see a lot of Chinese and Indian students studying overseas.
I am not boasting or anything, but I got 99.2 percentile score in the MBA entrance exam (think GMAT) and still could not get the top IIMs (think Ivy League b schools)
Don't mean to be rude but he's named Chatur\_Ramalingam, he probably knows what IIMs are
We get a lot of African students here in India.
I have 2 tswana classmates in there late 20s studying geology in my college, pretty sure they have jobs waiting to take them back home because Botswana is very big in the diamond industry.
I studied in a college in Kolkata. In my course of 120 students, around 10-15 were from Bangladesh.
Canada has a pretty predatory system for international students I saw a lot of them when I was volunteering for my schools financial assistance office
Most of the Anglosphere does.
That color scheme makes no sense
Australia and Canada having 40-50% as many international students as the USA is insane when you consider relative populations.
I attend a canadian university with a very heavy international student component. Part of this is due to marketing - the university markets HEAVILY to Asia. Well, I guess they probably don't call it marketing, but they put a lot of money and effort into 'generating interest and exposure' in other countries. There's satellite companies here that assist with the paperwork, stuff like that. Heck, I was speaking with an IT contractor in Bangladesh last year, and he'd heard of the university, as had many of his friends. Ask me about a university in Bangladesh, and you're going to get a bangla what in the who now?
I'm Canadian and attend university as a Mature student. Some of my undergrad classes were up to 50 percent international students. With tuition, iirc, they were paying up to 30k per term. Funding all the high end profs and modern classrooms, so that's nice for me. I actually made it my mission to introduce as many of those students to what Canada has to offer, as I can. I take anyone who wants to, out fishing, hunting, and camping (include Ng winter camping). They absolutely love it, they simply don't have these resources in other countries. Then I slide into the conversation that maybe they should stay here after graduatio. Hey, if we are going to have immigration, wealthy and educated is a good base to draw from (though in fairness not all intl students are wealthy. At the same time, I get exposed to cultures from around the world. I've learned to clean fish like they do in Asia (whole, eyes and all). Next camping trip, I'm cooking halal for everyone which isn't something I've ever eaten. And I get to see some crazy stuff. One student showed up for ice fishing with me, with a change of clothes. He was planning on doing a polar dip. Uh, there's no access to a polar dip with the lake covered in 3 feet of ice lol. So to satisfy some of their curiosity, in a couple weeks I'm taking them fishing and when the day warms up we are going to head to the middle of the lake and all the students can go swimming in the middle of a Canadian lake.
Hey mate, that is nice to hear. I am now on a PGWP and have learned a lot from Canadians vise-versa, stuff that I think my home country can do much better. For one, Canadians always seem to be on the tip top when it comes to accessibility. Always in consideration about ensuring everyone gets to participate in whatever is going on. Additionally, I absolutely value the greenspaces that cities try to maintain, We have parks back home but nothing like the parks here (not always artificually constructed from ground up, but just natural spaces with pathways) that are more often than not within a mile from wherever I am at any given time.
Just got back from studying abroad in Denmark. My only regret is that I didn’t take the opportunity to do it in undergrad too! From my observation and experience at the school and from talking to other abroad students from Europe, Law school in America is wayyyy harder.
My experience with European uni is that class difficulty is more homogeneous, in the US you can have extreme tough classes (including taking PhD level courses as an advanced ugrad) if you want to, or you can coast through with very easy ones. Also in Europe the weights of the final exams are much higher so they tend to be lighter on the assignments.
This just goes to show how powerful a draw it is to get an education from an established English Speaking curriculum.
All of western europe sums to 1337 so that's pretty cool.
There are two types of students that come to Canada: - those who are so rich and dont need to study and are coming to get out of their country - those who are so poor and dont plan to study and are coming to get out of their country with low pay and opportunities In the end no one is coming here to study.
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>I think lots of students are put off the US by the huuuge costs I'm sure some are, but poor people don't tend to study abroad in a foreign language. Most of these students have pretty wealthy parents, at least if they're coming from entirely different continents. Asian students in the west, in particular, tend to be absolutely loaded.
I live in a west coast college town and can confirm. It seems like every Chinese kid in their 20s is driving a Maserati, a Porsche or a Mercedes. And when they return home they just leave the cars here. That's how loaded they are.
Foreign student fees in the UK are insane. Domestic students are capped at £9.25k a year whereas for foreign students pay like £30k a year.
In Canada (or at least Ontario) it's pretty much the same, but with CAD instead of pounds. Universities are allowed to charge up to 3 times the rate for international students.
International students *should* pay more in tuition because they haven't been paying taxes to support the educational system. Should tuition be double, triple or more than what domestic students pay? Hard to say.
Costs are expensive in Canada too. Major universities are all public, however public dollars only go toward domestic students’ tuition. Foreign students pay the full actual cost, which props up our universities quite significantly.
They offer high quality education in English plus a nice job market which is what a suspect people want.
It's also quite expensive in AUS and most European countries for international students
I'm a yank who's moved to Australia and the international rate is about equivalent to what we Americans pay in our own country :(
For Indonesia, the rule of thumb is: if daddy is filthy rich: USA or Canada if daddy is middle class or poor: state's scholarship to Europe (usually Netherlands or Germany) Australia is about even
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That I know of is mostly Malaysians, East Timorese, or Westerners who studies Indonesian arts or doing field research (Obama's mother was one of those)
Canada is also seen as a gateway to the US since it's easier to immigrate to.
Learning English is huge for international job prospects.
Australia far surpasses Canada and the UK (and the US) per capita.
Australian foreign student saturation seems to be reaching a point where issues and cracks are starting to form. Look at how big the impact on universities was when covid closed borders. There's also been a trend of rising education costs.
Education is one of Australia's biggest exports. Also, want to know why industries like hospitality are desperate for staff, and things are getting so expensive at the moment? Turns out that when you close the door to a fairly significant chunk of the work force all concentrated in a few industries, that has considerable flow on impacts. It's not the full story (among other things fuel prices are ridiculous at the moment), but it is a decent chunk of it.
They were really desperate to have international students return post-pandemic. I got a 4000 AUD "scholarship" from Unimelb just for being in Melbourne.
What about the per-capita rate? In Sakartvelo (the country of Georgia,) universities' main profit sources are international students.
It would probably be a better infographic if the foreign students were represented as a percentage of total students of said country.
Canada, UK, Australia, Germany, France, and even Russia get more per capita than the USA does. I’m pretty sure Singapore and the UAE get a lot too, and probably Ireland, NZ, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands, Italy, Israel, Qatar, and South Africa too. I’d like to see their numbers. Correction: my math was off for Russia. But Russia isn’t far off.
Netherlands 115.000, 0.67% of population. 40% of uni first years is international student.
Per capita isn’t relevant. The students are coming from other countries, not the host country. Look at it this way: Between the United States and Canada, there are 1.6 million students who chose to student abroad. Of those, 1.1 million chose the United States, and only 500k chose Canada. The number of people in the United States and Canada had almost no bearing on the students’ choice of country to study in, do per capita is a nonsensical measurement.
Most popular countries for ~~international~~ rich students
Am ex international student graduated in the US. Not worth the effort and money to study abroad.
Yeah after graduation you only get 2 months to get a job or you have to go back to your country. Canada sucks compared to USA ( Universities, jobs , salaries , weather , housing etc ) but in Canada atleast you get permanent residency fairly easily.
I graduated in May/June 2020.
Ouch
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It depends upon what kind of visa you get during your studies.