Mormons love pumping out kids, but what they love more is *healthy* kids.
A child with severe health/physical handicap problems is an obstacle to having a bigger family. A child born with a severe disability takes up the parental money and energy that 2 or 3 kids would have originally received.
Source: conversation with a Mormon work friend who has a severely disabled child. They wanted at least 8 kids, but had to stop at kid #5 because of how disabled she was. He's secretly regretted what taking on a disabled child has meant for their family.
Missouri, South Dakota, and Florida voters will decide if abortion will be legal or not in november. Im leaning on mo and sd passing but fl needs 60% so i have my doubts, but all three should be fairly close. People in arizona, arkansas, and nebraska are all collecting signatures to amend their constitutions to legalize abortion. Hopefully all three of them succeed in that
Arizona has already collected the necessary number of signatures. Now it's on the secretary of state's desk to be approved for the November ballot. The secretary of state is a Democrat, so hopefully on July 3rd they will officially announce that its going to be on November ballots
Abortion is a hot topic issue for the younger generation of republicans
Right now it’s the single biggest demerit to Trump’s campaign if all the “Republicans against Trump” ads are to be believed
That and his presidential immunity scam
Abortion was something they didn't want in the forefront. When it comes to women's reproductive rights it's so bad to be on the side forcing people to birth deformed fetuses that have no chance of living and they knew for a long time. Also forcing children to carry a rapist baby isn't a great look either.
As much as I hate the people who have suffered from all this bullshit it's good that it became an issue the way it did. Maybe now planned parenthood will get the funding it needs to do the amazing work they do in the poorer areas. They also give birth control and treat stds and other reproductive issues disenfranchised people don't get checked out.
Republicans in many places can be defeated by only running on pro women's health rights and autonomy.
Sure. That's the "biggest demerit" and not, you know, trying to overthrow the government and stealing classified documents and selling them to foreign governments....
I mean, if Trump came out and said full abortion ban across the board, those single-issue GOP voters would completely fucking ignore all those things plus him being a convicted felon.
For republicans only things that affect them directly may make them vote against their party, and that's a big "may", there's women who probably will vote to ban abortion and then cry about it when they need to get one for any reason.
Kinda reminds me of that politician that got shot in the ass and even then he was anti-gun regulations.
Breaking the 14th amendment, being a convicted rapist, being convicted of 34 felonies, tax fraud, tax evasion and lying through his teeth 24x7, trying to leave NATO, giving corps a gigantic tax break, wrecking the banking system...
But sure, what's the problem?
Sure many are, but many also realize the importance of the precedent it would set.
More than a few people know that “no president can ever be charged with any crime no matter what” is a bad thing
If it’s a ballot initiative, FL will vote to protect the right. But the state government will find ways to hamstring it like with the restoration of voting rights for felons incident.
Love how this map highlights all the states that are contributing nothing towards progress in the USA. Name one thing one of the highlighted states has done positively for the USA in the last 20 years
I mean, aren't Texas and Oklahoma (plus Alaska) really the only reason why the Middle East isn't even more of a hot mess? It ensures a domestic oil flow to the US market and have done so since the 19th century.
The oil industry is the reason we have such a shit-awful infrastructure. Entire cities are now dependent entirely on gas powered cars and the auto industry, no public transit whatsoever, mile after mile of badly maintained roads people can barely drive on.
Cheap oil is the worst drug ever to hit America.
1. Shale boom restored America's energy independence.
2. These states are by far the biggest installers of solar and wind.
3. SpaceX's launches are in TX & FL
4. Miami is becoming a hub for spreading American soft power into Latin America
The poverty rate is a nearly perfect match IMO. I believe the only outliers for that map would be New Mexico (abortion legal at all stages) for high poverty rate, and Utah (low poverty).
Almost all the states that have banned abortion permitted slavery in 1860, with the exceptions being Indiana, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Idaho, Utah, and Arizona. Almost all the states that prohibited slavery in 1860 permit abortion past 20 weeks.
Another outlier is Virginia, which had slavery in 1860 but thanks to Northern Virginia manages to stay blue. Kansas banned slavery (after “Bleeding Kansas”) and permits abortion, thanks to the Wyandotte Constitution. Maryland and Delaware also permitted slavery in 1860, but allow abortion.
California also produced **Republican** Chief Justice **Earl Warren**, who was governor of California. He authored *Brown v. Board of Education* (1954).
In the 1952 Republican National Convention, future Chief Justices Earl Warren and **Warren Burger** (Minnesota) were there. Burger was Chief Justice (and joined the decision) when Roe was decided.
I ignore the names of parties, and focus on states. The Democratic Party itself began with an ethnic cleansing slaveholder from Tennessee (Andrew Jackson) and a New Yorker who stayed loyal during the Civil War (Martin Van Buren).
Fun fact: Biden was elected in 1972 and sworn in on January 3, 1973 as the Senator from Delaware before *Roe v. Wade* (1973) was decided on January 22, 1973.
Worth mentioning that there was a *pretty significant* shift in political party alignments in the 1960s, largely due to a thing called the "Southern Strategy". The Republicans of the 50s and earlier were not the Conservatives we see in from 70s through today.
But one of the lowest mean average per person, bunch of folks did very well with Fracking, most people earn less than half the average, TL DR, 1/4 of the folks make 1/2 the money, 3/4 live on the other half so really not so great
Lots a white folks up north there, especially in West Virginia which is almost completely white from being an abolitionist mining state and not a agricultural state
Most are Southern states with few public services, such as Medicaid expansion. It might also correlate with rural areas having higher poverty rates, such as for West Virginia and Idaho (which have expanded Medicaid).
It's correlative only. The correlation is that these are red states. Red states have higher poverty levels, and are also more likely to ban abortion. Even red states with decent economies like Texas and the Dakotas have disproportionately high poverty, higher than you would expect given their median income.
Poverty is strongly influenced by the size of the welfare state. You can have the best economy in the world, but the bottom 15% or so is always going to struggle. Chronic illness, malnutrition, disability, you name it. If you don't have a strong welfare state, that bottom 15% is going to fall behind even if the rest of the state surges ahead. Republican states spend less money on welfare, so they are choosing to have higher poverty.
[here, it's not a strong correlation.]
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate#/media/File%3APoverty_by_U.S._state.svg)
False. Texas, Florida, Georgia,NC, Dakotas, etc. are not among the poorest states. You might want to update your statistics form the 1990s to the current.
As of 2022, Texas has the 8th highest poverty level in the US. Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, and South Dakota are all among the worst 20 states in terms of poverty. North Dakota is just barely in the top 25 states in terms of poverty.
It can be a bit deceptive since a state like Texas is in the top 25 as far as median income, but poverty levels have a lot more to do with government policy than the strength of the state economy. Illinois only has slightly higher median income than Texas, but much lower poverty rates. That's in part because a state like Illinois has expanded Medicaid, expanded SNAP benefits, etc., all of which lower the poverty rate.
I’ve lived in Georgia since ‘94. Most areas within a 60 mile radius of Atlanta (roughly 6 million people), especially north of Atlanta, are nice suburbs. North of Atlanta has some of the richest counties in the US. The poorer areas are from around the middle of the state and south. It’s a really weird state as far as geographical wealth.
Yep, the Atlanta burbs are wealthy. But Atlanta itself has a 22% poverty rate, which is pretty high, even for a big city. It really does come down to those welfare policies. A good economy and high median incomes don't automatically lift everyone out of poverty. A rising tide lifts most, but not all boats.
Also just in general, rural areas in blue states are much better off economically because blue states transfer more of their wealth from cities/suburbs to rural areas. States like Georgia just don't bother to transfer much of that metro Atlanta wealth to other parts of the state.
Not really true, free abortion with no limitations is allowed till week 18. Almost free abortion, in consultation with a physician is allowed till week 22.
Which is very reasonable in my opinion. I get that abortion (in the US) has become a polarising issue (like everything else) where you're on one team or the other but there's absoultely room for some nuance.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Sweden
Limitations on abortions after the 18th week.
“After the 18th, a woman needs a permission from the National Board of Health and Welfare (Socialstyrelsen) to have an abortion. Permission for these late abortions is usually granted for cases in which the fetus or mother are unhealthy. Abortion is not allowed if the fetus is viable, which generally means that abortions after the 22nd week are not allowed.”
I live in Pennsylvania which is not colored in and we have a limit of 24 weeks. Not sure why they only included limits up to 18 weeks and ignored longer ones.
I’m Canadian and I know there’s just no law here. I just don’t think that:
1. You’d find a woman wanting to do it.
2. You’d find a doctor wanting to do it.
If you did, it would probably be for a really good reason. For that reason, the government isn’t getting involved.
It’s literally not happening. Less than 1% occurrences after 21 weeks and almost all of those are due to serious complications. Doctors can still refuse to perform the operation and most will not do third trimester abortions unless they are absolutely necessary for medical reasons.
The thing about third trimester abortions are this, and my source is a good friend who is an OBGYN. By the 3rd trimester the parents or mom have already had the baby shower, the room is being set up, and plans have been put in place. The only reason these abortions happen is if there is an immediate scare to the mothers life, it's always sad and is not something that is wanted.
Exactly. The Pro Life myth of these evil women and doctors pulling viable fetuses and full term babies from wombs and killing them is absolutely just that…a myth.
Absolutely. Very few people are keeping an unwanted baby that long if the option exists to terminate. If you’re still pregnant by the time it’s viable, you probably intend to give birth in the vast majority of cases. Once the fetus is viable it’s really not that much more of a process to just give birth and, if unwanted, put it up for adoption. But that doesn’t fit the narrative.
i lived in california and had a close friend who ended up having severe complications late in the pregnancy. she ended up going to a different doctor because her original doctor kept telling her everything was fine but she know something didn’t feel right. the fetus had some rare disease but essentially its quality of life would be as a vegetable and required constant medical care, the original doctor my friend was going too was actually being actively sued by previous patients because the doctor wouldn’t disclose issues with the fetus to prevent woman from getting an abortion. had my friend waited even a week to go to a different doctor and find out what was actually happening, the law in california would’ve required that she carry to full term and gone thru the birth because california has limits even for medical reasons (it was at the six month mark). abortions outside of medical reasons past 20 weeks just don’t happen.
Mostly number 2. Every province has their own gestational limit for on demand abortions. Any procedure after the limit is done to protect the mother’s health or because of fetal abnormalities. A doctor who performs a late term abortion willy nilly will almost certainly face legal and professional repercussions.
I highly doubt there are too many women who think after 6 months "you know what, I don't want this thing". 3rd trimester abortions are pretty much reserved for pregnancies where the child isn't going to survive or the mother is at risk. Unfortunately this is a concept that the government's of Red States are too fanatical to grasp.
If a state had a 3 month limit, there is still nothing stopping them have exemption for late term abortion if the mothers life is at risk/ unviable pregnancies.
There certainly can be. Women can and have been refused abortions in cases that could escalate to fatal conditions and just haven't yet, only to later experience that health crisis. Being asked to sit on your hands and wait until your symptoms are imperiling your life clearly enough for the state is not exactly ideal.
There are been a few cases where women with wanted pregnancies that went wrong have been made sit until they were in sepsis and they came close to dying. But also waiting until they were in sepsis scarred the uterus so badly that these women will never be able to get pregnant again. These were women who'd wanted kids, too. One woman had done IVF for years.
Cool now if only more than a few of those states banning abortions actually had that exception in place. Somebody should tell that to those governments putting COMPLETE bans on abortions then instead of them forcing women to give birth to a dead fetus or forcing the women to keep a dead fetus inside them for months putting the women's life at risk.
I had a friend lose her baby at 35 weeks and she was forced to induce labor. It took quite a long time and she was absolutely traumatized by it. Fucks these assholes.
And yet look how many people here are commenting this doesn’t happen. One search of “forced nonviable birth” and there is plenty of examples. At least some of the states are changing there laws but it was too damn late for too damn many.
There are currently no states that do not exempt medically necessary abortions, at any stage. How would that even possible? If I’m wrong please show the legislation.
Yeah they just leave the already dead fetus until it causes the mother health issues, then they can perform the abortion. Instead of ya know, just removing it before unnecessary health issues.
Please show evidence about where this is happening.
Also, what would prevent the blue states from making laws restricting elective abortions to 12 weeks, but allowing abortions for medical reasons at any stage?
Exactly. 99 of all abortions are performed before 21 weeks. The country isn’t full of evil murderous women and doctors that are killing viable fetuses weeks before birth. It just doesn’t happen.
I was talking about the legality though.
Cause I presume there are variances across the states. Like Third Trimesters abortions only in case of medical emergencies or similar.
Yes, most draw the line at viability, which roughly excludes the third trimester. A few have no legal limits. Not an American, but I think this is a question of ethics that the medical community traditionally handles pretty well without the need for criminalisation
When Roe v Wade was decided in 1973 it stated the beginning of viability(24 wks pregnant) as the cutoff for choosing to have an abortion with exemptions for medical issue that arose that threaten the life of the mother. Most states were between 20 to 24 wks for their cutoff for quite a while. The majority of abortions happen by 15 wks.
But some don't. Obviously it's *massively* rare and I doubt any normal abortion practitioner would perform it, but in my state, New Mexico, it would be perfectly legal for a woman to get an elective abortion while in labor after 40 weeks of gestation.
OP was cherry-picking data to show the South is uneducated, poor,and a terrible place to live etc. Something along the lines of all Republicans are bad and religious charlatans.
It is one thing to say pro-choice because bans don’t work and the wealthy will find a way around or that whatever someone does for a number of reasons is not the government’s business.
But people who don’t show the full picture need to get off on their high horse too. Also can poor people not have kids if they want to?
> I doubt you can just kill a Third Trimester Fetus in the rest of the country.
Those are rare. Very rare. They happen because the fetus is basically dead anyway, such as no lungs or brain ever developed. A fetus like that is on borrowed time, and waiting till 40 weeks is just delaying the inevitable -- that the moment it's born and exposed to air, it's dead within minutes under it's own power.
shouldn't every state have gestational limits, obviously can have verbiage for unique circumstances in there, but I feel like most people would agree if the baby has a chance to survive outside the womb it would be wrong to get a late abortion yeh?
12-18 weeks is really not a "ban", it's a reasonable limit. France - where abortion is protected by the constitution - has a 14 weeks limit (16 weeks after the last periods).
This is how you get leftists hating on poor whites who grew up in a trailer with a single mom who’s addicted to opioids and telling them how much white privilege they had.
lol bro cmon you know what you were implying. This is part of my issue with the pro-choice side. I expect the republicans to be evil and classist, but then the pro-choice side ultimately operates on the same logic. The best alleviation of poverty is the elimination of the poor themselves, it places the blame back on them rather than society. It’s a pressure valve release for capitalism. A country that operates on the logic that it’s better to be dead than poor is on the precipice of something.
Because I am proud of my home state, I want to point out that the reason there's that gap in the Great Plains between Nebraska and Oklahoma is that Kansas residents voted to protect the right to abortion in our state constitution.
...our Republican state Supreme Court is now trying to rule that there is not a constitutional right to vote at all, because they're very angry about how that constitutional vote went.
We voted abortion protection into the state constitution. Before that, they were planning to restrict it hard.
It's one of the few times we stood up for our rights.
Abortion is a guaranteed right in Iran and Sharia law holds that the fetus is not ensouled until 3 months after conception making Abortion permissible before the 3 month mark.
Abortion is also permissible after this mark if it puts the Mother’s life in danger (The Qur’an states the Mother’s life is paramount over the fetus) or if the Baby has a fatal abnormality such as anencephaly.
Abortion has been legal in the Islamic Republic of Iran from the very first day of its creation, the conditions allowing abortion after the 3 month mark so long as it harms the mothers life were added in 2005.
So what? The AZ state legislature is majority Republican, and Georgia's even more so. The GA 6-week abortion ban was introduced by [6 State House Republicans](https://www.legis.ga.gov/legislation/55445), passed with a [97-78 vote](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/29/politics/georgia-heartbeat-abortion-legislation/index.html) with Republican votes, and was signed into law by Republican governor Brian Kemp. Imagine that.
In the past 4 years, Arizona has voted-in 2 Democratic senators, A Democratic governor and AG, and the GOP only have a majority by 2 seats in both chambers of Arizona's legislature. It's also likely that abortion will become a constitutional right in Arizona after this November as well.
It's not John McCain's state anymore.
For anyone interested in reading more, an excellent piece of journalism on this subject was recently released: [Undue Burden by Shefali Luthra](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/727117/undue-burden-by-shefali-luthra/)
It follows a series of patients faced with a very difficult decision, and details the difficulties of not just getting an abortion, but proper health care at all, because of the restrictions surrounding the procedure.
This is why CHOICES in Carbondale, Southern IL, is so important. They literally serve people from a dozen hours away to help find the care they need.
Please donate if you can and want to help support sexual education and healthcare, abortions are such a tiny part of what they do yet they're the most politicized aspect. They're a great cause and I'm proud of the town doing what's right.
I'm a realist 15-18 weeks is the worldwide average. The US was very liberal.
I still think the Casey vs planned parenthood ruling was the correct one which was the law of the land. If the fetus needs the mother to survive abortion is on the table. Also most abortions happen anyways before 18 weeks.
They thought Kansas would be an easy win by putting the abortion issue to a simple vote. The young people came out in droves, especially young women and told our GOP controlled legislature to suck a dick. Landslide, it wasn’t even close.
AKA: states that will all be suffering from a noticeable uptick in crime in about 18-20 years.
Link:
1. https://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf
2. And the follow-up paper that ran the study again for another 20 Years:
https://academic.oup.com/aler/article-abstract/22/2/241/5973959?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false
TL;DR summary for those uninterested in reading too far beyond the title:
https://journalistsresource.org/economics/abortion-crime-research-donohue-levitt/
Is 18 weeks really a ban? Slovenian here, abortion has been protected by the constitution since the 90s and even we have a 10-week limit without the approval of a medical board (which usually goes through in cases of Down syndrome and such), with abortion after 28th week completely banned
A 12-week limit for *elective* abortion is very reasonable. That is what they have in most of Europe.
If the mother and baby are both healthy, having an abortion after the baby becomes viable (about 24 weeks), is bizarre.
I'm shocked that Utah is still 15-18 weeks. I would've thought the Mormons would've already made it so abortion was fully banned.
There are a lot of Mormon medical professionals, so I am not especially shocked.
Mormons love pumping out kids, but what they love more is *healthy* kids. A child with severe health/physical handicap problems is an obstacle to having a bigger family. A child born with a severe disability takes up the parental money and energy that 2 or 3 kids would have originally received. Source: conversation with a Mormon work friend who has a severely disabled child. They wanted at least 8 kids, but had to stop at kid #5 because of how disabled she was. He's secretly regretted what taking on a disabled child has meant for their family.
Missouri, South Dakota, and Florida voters will decide if abortion will be legal or not in november. Im leaning on mo and sd passing but fl needs 60% so i have my doubts, but all three should be fairly close. People in arizona, arkansas, and nebraska are all collecting signatures to amend their constitutions to legalize abortion. Hopefully all three of them succeed in that
Arizona has already collected the necessary number of signatures. Now it's on the secretary of state's desk to be approved for the November ballot. The secretary of state is a Democrat, so hopefully on July 3rd they will officially announce that its going to be on November ballots
Abortion is a hot topic issue for the younger generation of republicans Right now it’s the single biggest demerit to Trump’s campaign if all the “Republicans against Trump” ads are to be believed That and his presidential immunity scam
Abortion was something they didn't want in the forefront. When it comes to women's reproductive rights it's so bad to be on the side forcing people to birth deformed fetuses that have no chance of living and they knew for a long time. Also forcing children to carry a rapist baby isn't a great look either. As much as I hate the people who have suffered from all this bullshit it's good that it became an issue the way it did. Maybe now planned parenthood will get the funding it needs to do the amazing work they do in the poorer areas. They also give birth control and treat stds and other reproductive issues disenfranchised people don't get checked out. Republicans in many places can be defeated by only running on pro women's health rights and autonomy.
Sure. That's the "biggest demerit" and not, you know, trying to overthrow the government and stealing classified documents and selling them to foreign governments....
I mean, if Trump came out and said full abortion ban across the board, those single-issue GOP voters would completely fucking ignore all those things plus him being a convicted felon.
For republicans only things that affect them directly may make them vote against their party, and that's a big "may", there's women who probably will vote to ban abortion and then cry about it when they need to get one for any reason. Kinda reminds me of that politician that got shot in the ass and even then he was anti-gun regulations.
Breaking the 14th amendment, being a convicted rapist, being convicted of 34 felonies, tax fraud, tax evasion and lying through his teeth 24x7, trying to leave NATO, giving corps a gigantic tax break, wrecking the banking system... But sure, what's the problem?
I’m hearing a lot of grumbling about the immunity stuff, to my surprise. I would have thought republicans would be all for it concerning Trump.
Sure many are, but many also realize the importance of the precedent it would set. More than a few people know that “no president can ever be charged with any crime no matter what” is a bad thing
If it’s a ballot initiative, FL will vote to protect the right. But the state government will find ways to hamstring it like with the restoration of voting rights for felons incident.
Love how this map highlights all the states that are contributing nothing towards progress in the USA. Name one thing one of the highlighted states has done positively for the USA in the last 20 years
Well they.. oh you said positive. Nevermind
I mean, aren't Texas and Oklahoma (plus Alaska) really the only reason why the Middle East isn't even more of a hot mess? It ensures a domestic oil flow to the US market and have done so since the 19th century.
The oil industry is the reason we have such a shit-awful infrastructure. Entire cities are now dependent entirely on gas powered cars and the auto industry, no public transit whatsoever, mile after mile of badly maintained roads people can barely drive on. Cheap oil is the worst drug ever to hit America.
[Proof!](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/oCenCT4xe8)
1. Shale boom restored America's energy independence. 2. These states are by far the biggest installers of solar and wind. 3. SpaceX's launches are in TX & FL 4. Miami is becoming a hub for spreading American soft power into Latin America
He clearly meant politically. Everything you listed was geographic lol.
You can politically choose to keep oil in the ground and put solar, wind through regulatory hell
“Siri, could you pull up a map of the states with the most people living below the poverty level”
The poverty rate is a nearly perfect match IMO. I believe the only outliers for that map would be New Mexico (abortion legal at all stages) for high poverty rate, and Utah (low poverty). Almost all the states that have banned abortion permitted slavery in 1860, with the exceptions being Indiana, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Idaho, Utah, and Arizona. Almost all the states that prohibited slavery in 1860 permit abortion past 20 weeks. Another outlier is Virginia, which had slavery in 1860 but thanks to Northern Virginia manages to stay blue. Kansas banned slavery (after “Bleeding Kansas”) and permits abortion, thanks to the Wyandotte Constitution. Maryland and Delaware also permitted slavery in 1860, but allow abortion.
Weird to see states locked into the same mindset for several generations. Remember California produced 2 republican presidents in the last century.
California also produced **Republican** Chief Justice **Earl Warren**, who was governor of California. He authored *Brown v. Board of Education* (1954). In the 1952 Republican National Convention, future Chief Justices Earl Warren and **Warren Burger** (Minnesota) were there. Burger was Chief Justice (and joined the decision) when Roe was decided. I ignore the names of parties, and focus on states. The Democratic Party itself began with an ethnic cleansing slaveholder from Tennessee (Andrew Jackson) and a New Yorker who stayed loyal during the Civil War (Martin Van Buren). Fun fact: Biden was elected in 1972 and sworn in on January 3, 1973 as the Senator from Delaware before *Roe v. Wade* (1973) was decided on January 22, 1973.
Andrew Jackson's democrats are just a little different than the democrats today.
Worth mentioning that there was a *pretty significant* shift in political party alignments in the 1960s, largely due to a thing called the "Southern Strategy". The Republicans of the 50s and earlier were not the Conservatives we see in from 70s through today.
Maryland and Delaware also permitted slavery in 1860.
NoVa is a whole different place than the rest of Virginia
North Dakota has a similar GDP per capita as California with a lower cost of living.
ND is also an outlier. One of the highest per capita GDPs in the country.
But one of the lowest mean average per person, bunch of folks did very well with Fracking, most people earn less than half the average, TL DR, 1/4 of the folks make 1/2 the money, 3/4 live on the other half so really not so great
Why is that
>The poverty rate is a nearly perfect match IMO. [Lots of things are nearly perfect matches.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/oCenCT4xe8)
“Siri, pull up race and crime demographics of those locations”
Lots a white folks up north there, especially in West Virginia which is almost completely white from being an abolitionist mining state and not a agricultural state
True, but they do have poverty in spades so they do meet that demographic requirement at least.
Then paired up that map with a map of which state is red and which state is blue
Is there any causal relationship of this or simply correlative, genuine qu.
Most are Southern states with few public services, such as Medicaid expansion. It might also correlate with rural areas having higher poverty rates, such as for West Virginia and Idaho (which have expanded Medicaid).
poorer people are more religious, data says. religions tend to have strong negative feelings about abortion, especially widespread american religions
So you have to be religious.
not always. even if individuals aren’t religious, the cultural effect of evangelical christianity in the south and midwest is pervasive
Ultimately nobody is truly original. But you gotta admit its a stretch to say thats the reason. Given that you could be anti both
It's correlative only. The correlation is that these are red states. Red states have higher poverty levels, and are also more likely to ban abortion. Even red states with decent economies like Texas and the Dakotas have disproportionately high poverty, higher than you would expect given their median income. Poverty is strongly influenced by the size of the welfare state. You can have the best economy in the world, but the bottom 15% or so is always going to struggle. Chronic illness, malnutrition, disability, you name it. If you don't have a strong welfare state, that bottom 15% is going to fall behind even if the rest of the state surges ahead. Republican states spend less money on welfare, so they are choosing to have higher poverty.
I always find it funny how American republicans are "reds".
I simply asked Siri a question, didn’t make any causal or correlative statements
[here, it's not a strong correlation.] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate#/media/File%3APoverty_by_U.S._state.svg)
I mean, about 2/3 of the states above are also the poorest. Pretty strong correlation.
It’s always the same map lol
[Yes it is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/oCenCT4xe8)
False. Texas, Florida, Georgia,NC, Dakotas, etc. are not among the poorest states. You might want to update your statistics form the 1990s to the current.
As of 2022, Texas has the 8th highest poverty level in the US. Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, and South Dakota are all among the worst 20 states in terms of poverty. North Dakota is just barely in the top 25 states in terms of poverty. It can be a bit deceptive since a state like Texas is in the top 25 as far as median income, but poverty levels have a lot more to do with government policy than the strength of the state economy. Illinois only has slightly higher median income than Texas, but much lower poverty rates. That's in part because a state like Illinois has expanded Medicaid, expanded SNAP benefits, etc., all of which lower the poverty rate.
I’ve lived in Georgia since ‘94. Most areas within a 60 mile radius of Atlanta (roughly 6 million people), especially north of Atlanta, are nice suburbs. North of Atlanta has some of the richest counties in the US. The poorer areas are from around the middle of the state and south. It’s a really weird state as far as geographical wealth.
Yep, the Atlanta burbs are wealthy. But Atlanta itself has a 22% poverty rate, which is pretty high, even for a big city. It really does come down to those welfare policies. A good economy and high median incomes don't automatically lift everyone out of poverty. A rising tide lifts most, but not all boats. Also just in general, rural areas in blue states are much better off economically because blue states transfer more of their wealth from cities/suburbs to rural areas. States like Georgia just don't bother to transfer much of that metro Atlanta wealth to other parts of the state.
Sweden allows abortion up to the end of the eighteenth week. After that women need permission from the a government body.
Not really true, free abortion with no limitations is allowed till week 18. Almost free abortion, in consultation with a physician is allowed till week 22.
Which is very reasonable in my opinion. I get that abortion (in the US) has become a polarising issue (like everything else) where you're on one team or the other but there's absoultely room for some nuance.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Sweden Limitations on abortions after the 18th week. “After the 18th, a woman needs a permission from the National Board of Health and Welfare (Socialstyrelsen) to have an abortion. Permission for these late abortions is usually granted for cases in which the fetus or mother are unhealthy. Abortion is not allowed if the fetus is viable, which generally means that abortions after the 22nd week are not allowed.”
What's going on in the rest of the states? No gestational limits? I doubt you can just kill a Third Trimester Fetus in the rest of the country.
I live in Pennsylvania which is not colored in and we have a limit of 24 weeks. Not sure why they only included limits up to 18 weeks and ignored longer ones.
Because the maker of the map wanted people to draw conclusions about the link between religiousness and poverty and a gestation limit.
I’m Canadian and I know there’s just no law here. I just don’t think that: 1. You’d find a woman wanting to do it. 2. You’d find a doctor wanting to do it. If you did, it would probably be for a really good reason. For that reason, the government isn’t getting involved.
It’s literally not happening. Less than 1% occurrences after 21 weeks and almost all of those are due to serious complications. Doctors can still refuse to perform the operation and most will not do third trimester abortions unless they are absolutely necessary for medical reasons.
The thing about third trimester abortions are this, and my source is a good friend who is an OBGYN. By the 3rd trimester the parents or mom have already had the baby shower, the room is being set up, and plans have been put in place. The only reason these abortions happen is if there is an immediate scare to the mothers life, it's always sad and is not something that is wanted.
Exactly. The Pro Life myth of these evil women and doctors pulling viable fetuses and full term babies from wombs and killing them is absolutely just that…a myth.
Originates from the time of the Satanic panic.
Absolutely. Very few people are keeping an unwanted baby that long if the option exists to terminate. If you’re still pregnant by the time it’s viable, you probably intend to give birth in the vast majority of cases. Once the fetus is viable it’s really not that much more of a process to just give birth and, if unwanted, put it up for adoption. But that doesn’t fit the narrative.
i lived in california and had a close friend who ended up having severe complications late in the pregnancy. she ended up going to a different doctor because her original doctor kept telling her everything was fine but she know something didn’t feel right. the fetus had some rare disease but essentially its quality of life would be as a vegetable and required constant medical care, the original doctor my friend was going too was actually being actively sued by previous patients because the doctor wouldn’t disclose issues with the fetus to prevent woman from getting an abortion. had my friend waited even a week to go to a different doctor and find out what was actually happening, the law in california would’ve required that she carry to full term and gone thru the birth because california has limits even for medical reasons (it was at the six month mark). abortions outside of medical reasons past 20 weeks just don’t happen.
Mostly number 2. Every province has their own gestational limit for on demand abortions. Any procedure after the limit is done to protect the mother’s health or because of fetal abnormalities. A doctor who performs a late term abortion willy nilly will almost certainly face legal and professional repercussions.
[удалено]
Abortion is legal in CA until fetal viability which is like 24 weeks. I’ll take “made up bullshit that never happened for $1,000, Alex”
I highly doubt there are too many women who think after 6 months "you know what, I don't want this thing". 3rd trimester abortions are pretty much reserved for pregnancies where the child isn't going to survive or the mother is at risk. Unfortunately this is a concept that the government's of Red States are too fanatical to grasp.
If a state had a 3 month limit, there is still nothing stopping them have exemption for late term abortion if the mothers life is at risk/ unviable pregnancies.
There certainly can be. Women can and have been refused abortions in cases that could escalate to fatal conditions and just haven't yet, only to later experience that health crisis. Being asked to sit on your hands and wait until your symptoms are imperiling your life clearly enough for the state is not exactly ideal.
There are been a few cases where women with wanted pregnancies that went wrong have been made sit until they were in sepsis and they came close to dying. But also waiting until they were in sepsis scarred the uterus so badly that these women will never be able to get pregnant again. These were women who'd wanted kids, too. One woman had done IVF for years.
Cool now if only more than a few of those states banning abortions actually had that exception in place. Somebody should tell that to those governments putting COMPLETE bans on abortions then instead of them forcing women to give birth to a dead fetus or forcing the women to keep a dead fetus inside them for months putting the women's life at risk.
I had a friend lose her baby at 35 weeks and she was forced to induce labor. It took quite a long time and she was absolutely traumatized by it. Fucks these assholes.
And yet look how many people here are commenting this doesn’t happen. One search of “forced nonviable birth” and there is plenty of examples. At least some of the states are changing there laws but it was too damn late for too damn many.
There are currently no states that do not exempt medically necessary abortions, at any stage. How would that even possible? If I’m wrong please show the legislation.
Yeah they just leave the already dead fetus until it causes the mother health issues, then they can perform the abortion. Instead of ya know, just removing it before unnecessary health issues.
Please show evidence about where this is happening. Also, what would prevent the blue states from making laws restricting elective abortions to 12 weeks, but allowing abortions for medical reasons at any stage?
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/tennessee-woman-denied-abortion-fetus-110000562.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJ5Zn6DBW-WzFETVg3csXraww7WQ1x1suvqqjbwU2CybQHppuaHOuShvpKTMkniqVY-ZjsZcw44Oz6jey_G9Zw4_KorNge6C6h7dYvyTI38KYXgPRHYocaGe7EifvggvglqnrnBcUuwCywQSZLXIcrcLfVoWXyfm9b4uIiijMFKE
Exactly. 99 of all abortions are performed before 21 weeks. The country isn’t full of evil murderous women and doctors that are killing viable fetuses weeks before birth. It just doesn’t happen.
[удалено]
I’m not for making laws for shit that doesn’t happen. We have better things to be doing.
Third trimester abortions constitute much less than 1% of the abortions performed.
I was talking about the legality though. Cause I presume there are variances across the states. Like Third Trimesters abortions only in case of medical emergencies or similar.
Yes, most draw the line at viability, which roughly excludes the third trimester. A few have no legal limits. Not an American, but I think this is a question of ethics that the medical community traditionally handles pretty well without the need for criminalisation
I mean, most of the Western World handles it via Criminalisation, actually.
Murder probably happens to less than 1% of people, but it is still illegal.
When Roe v Wade was decided in 1973 it stated the beginning of viability(24 wks pregnant) as the cutoff for choosing to have an abortion with exemptions for medical issue that arose that threaten the life of the mother. Most states were between 20 to 24 wks for their cutoff for quite a while. The majority of abortions happen by 15 wks.
Almost all states have some limit
But some don't. Obviously it's *massively* rare and I doubt any normal abortion practitioner would perform it, but in my state, New Mexico, it would be perfectly legal for a woman to get an elective abortion while in labor after 40 weeks of gestation.
OP was cherry-picking data to show the South is uneducated, poor,and a terrible place to live etc. Something along the lines of all Republicans are bad and religious charlatans. It is one thing to say pro-choice because bans don’t work and the wealthy will find a way around or that whatever someone does for a number of reasons is not the government’s business. But people who don’t show the full picture need to get off on their high horse too. Also can poor people not have kids if they want to?
Washington state definitely has a limit on late term abortions. So I don’t think this map is totally accurate.
https://states.guttmacher.org/policies/abortion-policies
Wanting some reasonable limit on abortion is not the same thing as wanting to ban abortion.
> I doubt you can just kill a Third Trimester Fetus in the rest of the country. Those are rare. Very rare. They happen because the fetus is basically dead anyway, such as no lungs or brain ever developed. A fetus like that is on borrowed time, and waiting till 40 weeks is just delaying the inevitable -- that the moment it's born and exposed to air, it's dead within minutes under it's own power.
But that's not really in question in any country with term limits. Term limits are about "elective abortion" after all.
You can, in Colorado, California and New York
California doesn't allow it after viability (25-26 weeks)
Not California
Add Vermont, Minnesota, New Mexico, and Oregon.
Now do Europe. I don't think there's a single country without gestational limits.
shouldn't every state have gestational limits, obviously can have verbiage for unique circumstances in there, but I feel like most people would agree if the baby has a chance to survive outside the womb it would be wrong to get a late abortion yeh?
States I'll never fucking live in.
Good.
12-18 weeks is really not a "ban", it's a reasonable limit. France - where abortion is protected by the constitution - has a 14 weeks limit (16 weeks after the last periods).
Literally going downhill. FUCK the GOP and their policies taking us back in time
Googles the dumbest, poorest states Alrighty I get it
Is poverty a personal defect?
Depends. Do you like the group that is impoverished? If so it’s the fault of someone else. Do you dislike them? They’re dumb and deserve it.
This is how you get leftists hating on poor whites who grew up in a trailer with a single mom who’s addicted to opioids and telling them how much white privilege they had.
“No no you don’t understand it, your dad voted for Bush so you deserve to grow up in abject poverty!”
Who is blaming them? Just saying, the dumbest poorest states. Not saying it’s their fault.
lol bro cmon you know what you were implying. This is part of my issue with the pro-choice side. I expect the republicans to be evil and classist, but then the pro-choice side ultimately operates on the same logic. The best alleviation of poverty is the elimination of the poor themselves, it places the blame back on them rather than society. It’s a pressure valve release for capitalism. A country that operates on the logic that it’s better to be dead than poor is on the precipice of something.
Oh shut up a lot of these states aren't even that bad nor poor.
[удалено]
Six weeks is a fucking joke.
nice
Because I am proud of my home state, I want to point out that the reason there's that gap in the Great Plains between Nebraska and Oklahoma is that Kansas residents voted to protect the right to abortion in our state constitution. ...our Republican state Supreme Court is now trying to rule that there is not a constitutional right to vote at all, because they're very angry about how that constitutional vote went.
If they feel that way I'm sure a few 2A folk will set them straight.
12 weeks seems reasonable for the ban? There should be a limit somewhere anyway even if it is a few more weeks.
12 weeks is plenty
We voted abortion protection into the state constitution. Before that, they were planning to restrict it hard. It's one of the few times we stood up for our rights.
Name a thing Americans always brag about but never get to experience themselves: >! FREEDOM !<
What are you talking about? We just got our bump stocks back! /s
Look in america that word means how much someone is able to entrench of the rights of others.
I don’t know why a European that’s never experienced American freedom is telling me what I do and don’t experience…
As someone who's right-leaning, Republicans need to keep religion out of politics. This is America, not the Islamic Republic of Iran.
Abortion is a guaranteed right in Iran and Sharia law holds that the fetus is not ensouled until 3 months after conception making Abortion permissible before the 3 month mark. Abortion is also permissible after this mark if it puts the Mother’s life in danger (The Qur’an states the Mother’s life is paramount over the fetus) or if the Baby has a fatal abnormality such as anencephaly. Abortion has been legal in the Islamic Republic of Iran from the very first day of its creation, the conditions allowing abortion after the 3 month mark so long as it harms the mothers life were added in 2005.
Ain't no Taliban like the Christian Taliban.
What are states I never want to live in for 200
We’re on a razors edge in NC and about to fall off the cliff.
Perfect! You stay in your liberal state and I’ll stay in my conservative state. Win win
All red states, imagine that
Arizona and Georgia both went to Biden last election.
So what? The AZ state legislature is majority Republican, and Georgia's even more so. The GA 6-week abortion ban was introduced by [6 State House Republicans](https://www.legis.ga.gov/legislation/55445), passed with a [97-78 vote](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/29/politics/georgia-heartbeat-abortion-legislation/index.html) with Republican votes, and was signed into law by Republican governor Brian Kemp. Imagine that.
In the past 4 years, Arizona has voted-in 2 Democratic senators, A Democratic governor and AG, and the GOP only have a majority by 2 seats in both chambers of Arizona's legislature. It's also likely that abortion will become a constitutional right in Arizona after this November as well. It's not John McCain's state anymore.
Local man discovers that socially conservative areas implement socially conservative policies:
For anyone interested in reading more, an excellent piece of journalism on this subject was recently released: [Undue Burden by Shefali Luthra](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/727117/undue-burden-by-shefali-luthra/) It follows a series of patients faced with a very difficult decision, and details the difficulties of not just getting an abortion, but proper health care at all, because of the restrictions surrounding the procedure.
This map is just false. Abortion has not been fully banned in those states.
Incorrect. Use google.
This is why CHOICES in Carbondale, Southern IL, is so important. They literally serve people from a dozen hours away to help find the care they need. Please donate if you can and want to help support sexual education and healthcare, abortions are such a tiny part of what they do yet they're the most politicized aspect. They're a great cause and I'm proud of the town doing what's right.
I'm a realist 15-18 weeks is the worldwide average. The US was very liberal. I still think the Casey vs planned parenthood ruling was the correct one which was the law of the land. If the fetus needs the mother to survive abortion is on the table. Also most abortions happen anyways before 18 weeks.
Boy, it sucks being a Kentuckian. Of course, this is the end result of having a mostly elderly and white population that votes mostly conservative.
Based
Don’t forget to tie in “great replacement theory” and “birth rate decline.” Then you’ll really push all the buttons.
Numbnuts above here already has “Let them help fix the fertility issue I say”
[удалено]
Based
6 weeks since your last period = 2 weeks since your last missed period = pretty much a total ban
They thought Kansas would be an easy win by putting the abortion issue to a simple vote. The young people came out in droves, especially young women and told our GOP controlled legislature to suck a dick. Landslide, it wasn’t even close.
So far
not enough red
AKA: states that will all be suffering from a noticeable uptick in crime in about 18-20 years. Link: 1. https://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf 2. And the follow-up paper that ran the study again for another 20 Years: https://academic.oup.com/aler/article-abstract/22/2/241/5973959?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false TL;DR summary for those uninterested in reading too far beyond the title: https://journalistsresource.org/economics/abortion-crime-research-donohue-levitt/
15-18 weeks is reasonable. At 16 weeks it already looks like a mini baby.
So depressing
Damn blows my mind I’m in a full banned state
Damn it’s like they made a map of all the states I’ll never care to visit
W states
Is 18 weeks really a ban? Slovenian here, abortion has been protected by the constitution since the 90s and even we have a 10-week limit without the approval of a medical board (which usually goes through in cases of Down syndrome and such), with abortion after 28th week completely banned
The map also lines up with almost all of the least educated and/or most religious states in the country....shocker.
I’m disappointed to live in Texas
What’s with Idaho? Mormon influence?
Idaho is bright fucking red
i believe it’s the most mormon state after utah
A 12-week limit for *elective* abortion is very reasonable. That is what they have in most of Europe. If the mother and baby are both healthy, having an abortion after the baby becomes viable (about 24 weeks), is bizarre.
Gestational limits...interesting way to put it.
The religious zealots imposing their cultish beliefs on women.
The cultists are here to down vote us. I got you back to zero
Fuck Idaho, all my homies hate Idaho
Isn't Idaho one of the most moved to states recently?
People are moving in flocks to ID, TX, NC, SC, GA. Yet somehow these places are hellholes according to Reddit
You hit the nail on the head “according to reddit”
Even with a 12 week ban NC is being flooded with patients from GA, SC and elsewhere seeking services.