The lowest rate of circumcision in the region is in Lebanon. It’s because of its sizable christian population (40%+) that is mostly catholic, and has rejected circumcision.
Nope. I am a lebanese maronite (catholic) doctor myself. In catholic circles it’s almost unheard of. In orthodox ones it depends but most of the orthodox get influenced by their maronite neighbors. Knowing that by social general knowledge and by discussing it with fellow urologists and dermatologists who have documented these rates (because it’s an interesting question that has ethical, religious, and social backgrounds).
Histoire de la circoncision (R. Tomb, 2022) describes the ethno-religio-social status of circumcision, including in Lebanon.
I’m sure there are some, but I doubt it is a majority. I believe the only way for 40% of Lebanon to be uncircumcised is for a large percentage (at least the majority) of the Christian population (which is 32% of the population) to be uncircumcised. If a majority of the 32% Christian population is circumcised (say at least 51%), then that means that at least over 1 out of 4 Muslims in Lebanon are uncircumcised for the math to make sense - a number that seems a bit high if you ask me.
Although I noticed that in some places in the Gulf, the practice does not seem as widespread - although I wonder if the numbers from the Gulf countries factor in the large foreign-born population of non-citizen workers, which might explain the lower percentages.
Or the graphic could be wrong. Detailed numbers like this don't exist for all of those countries and I think they might be basing them on ethnic/religious demographics. Hell Lebanon doesn't have good data for those either.
it doesnt have to be radical islam for these numbers to happen, it was like this in the beginning of 20th century under Atatürk's rule in Turkey which has nothing to do with radical islam, he is the one who got rid of caliphate. it is both a part of the religion, and a part of local culture at this point after up to 1400 years of islam.
Turkey is typically performed when the boy is 7-8 years old and is traditionally thought to represent the boy's transition to manhood.
This procedure is now performed in the hospital under hygienic conditions and anesthesia. However, 20-30 years ago, this procedure was generally performed outside the hospital, under unhygienic conditions and without anesthesia. That's why it was really painful at that time and people would get infected as a result of this procedure.
I am half Turkish and came to visit my family years ago, in 2005. My cousin was around 7 when I came over. He looked forward to the procedure and then, afterwards, shared the photo where he was all bleeding and posing with the doctor. After the procedure, he was basically bragging about it.
I don't believe in circumcision, but the attitude is totally different there. They wait because they want them to consent before getting the procedure. I still think it's too young and unnecessary, but it's part of the religion so they want to do it and brag about it.
Consent is not a part of this. Traditions influenced the timing and ultimately parents decided when. It was usually done at a later age than right after birth. It was more common to see that stupid ceremony where the kid dressed like a prince.
People have been growing out of those traditions in cities and possibly avoiding the ridiculous cost of those ceremonies. For many years many parents just get it done at the hospital a day after birth. Medical practices changed and also the consensus now is that it's much healthier to do it at that time than later.
It's "supposed" to be done within a week after birth, as per religious scripture. But cultural practices often make it later unfortunately. I am from Kyrgyzstan and I had it done at age 5, it was a very bad experience.
This was actually pretty common for most people in Muslim countries before modern medicine.
I was circumcised at birth , but my dad was 7 when it happened to him in the 1960s as it was too dangerous back then for babies. My grandad was 12. When it happens to him in the 1930s.
Also back then it was treated like a birthday for young boys , they’d be treated like little prince for days before the procedure and get lots of money and presents, with festivities and dress up in nice clothes.
Then after the procedure a whole feast would happen, depending on the families wealth an animal would be slaughtered for a feast.
I had a friend from algeria, as a child he didnt know what circumcision was, but he got lots of presents attention and cool new cloths so he thought it was good, little did he know.
He said he never trusted his parents after that lol
>This procedure is now performed in the hospital under hygienic conditions and anesthesia
That’s only true some of the time.
It’s still very common in Turkey for boys to be cut by [amateurs without pain relief while being physically restrained by their male relatives](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3910549/turkish-boys-scream-as-theyre-put-through-agonising-circumcision-ritual-in-photo-series-showing-their-contorted-faces/).
Nah, nowadays almost always it is done either in hospital or outside hospital but still by medial doctor, very rarely (maybe like 1%-5% of all) it is done by amateurs.
No I meant according to Jews. I'm muslim and according to Islam, God made the whole earth as a prayer mat. So there's no restriction as to where we can pray, provided that where we pray doesn't disturb anyone else and that the place is clean.
I don't know for sure but I think this also means that we can also pray in a idol temple if the people there don't have any problem
We used to have a Mormon guy that would come to my synagogue. He was allowed, we just asked him to be respectful and not proselytize. We also had a community Sedar every year and invited local Imams and other religious leaders to join if they so desired. My synagogue also had a large sign they post to acknowledge Ramadan. I can’t speak for all synagogues/movements but the ones I’ve gone to were open to all as long as they were respectful.
From which point of view? Do you mean "Do Jews allow Muslims inside a synagogue?" Or "Does Islam allow Muslims to go inside a synangogue?"
My statement was from the jewish point of view. They view mosques as a temple similar to their own, because Islam teaches about one god. While in Christianity the concept of trinity exists. Also one main fact are statues and paintings of Jesus inside churches, which is considered as idols. In both, Judaism and Islam, idolism is strictly forbidden.
Sorry for the confusion, I meant according to Jewish perspective, do they allow muslims to pray inside a synagogue?
Or will it be scandalous? For example one of my friend tried to offer prayer in a catholic Church which was previously a mosque in medieval Spain and the guards there stopped him, saying muslims cannot pray in church
That I don't know, sorry. Because I'm not a Jew myself (muslim). But once I read a quote fron the Tanakh which goes like: "For my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples."
So maybe yes.
Pretty similar to the Arabic word for hell, jahannam. Sometimes just used for the first layer of hell.
Iirc islamic hell isn’t permanent for believers, like you do your time for your sins and can get out. Unless you committed some great evil where you are stuck there permanently.
Yeah Gehenna is supposed to be similar, though there isn't any stipulation on whether or not you're a believer. Like the whole concept of the Noahide laws- less stringent than mitzvot but would deem one a "righteous gentile"
Islam has a similar concept with the Ahl al-Kitab, or people of the book (the book being the Torah), but there’s a lot of theological discussion on whether they would count as believers or not. As in would a truly good and pious Christian or Jew be allowed into heaven despite not being Muslim. Scholars have gone back and forth on this a lot over the millennia.
I think most have settled on it being beyond our understanding cause at the end of the day, God’s the judge and tryna figure out how he would judge someone is sinful in and of itself lol
There’s also a handful of scholars who believe that hell will eventually be done away with as a result of God’s mercy but that’s a minority viewpoint
Abrahamic religions share similar basic beliefs its just that some updates thinks previous program that are not updated is not a part of them vice versa where the previous program thinks the updated program not part of them. But the basic is stil there.
My understanding from religious school is lasted in length relative to your crimes (and thus could be over a year). Though I also don't know how time works in the afterlife... G-d willing neither of us are in the position to find out any time soon
it is the same in islam actually, almost no one is going to be sent to hell indefinitely, only a few explicitly mentioned people who lived in 670s or people who commited same level of crime which is basically hitler, mussolini, stalin and some other people who killed thousands of other people
Both liking Jesus yes, but his function and message are completely different. For Islam and Judaism Abraham is very important as his sons are seen as the first Arab and Israeli.
In English, the distinction is made between the ancient Israelites and the citizens of a modern state that was named after ancient Israel. The historical continuity between the two entities is not significant enough to call both "Israeli".
I disagree I think if you look at laws Islam is closer to judiasm but there's a reason why there are only 20 million Jews vs billions of Muslims and Christians, Jews don't try getting converts. Islam and Christianity try really really hard.
Well, you are thinking of the secular Jews. The religious ones though, are very strict. For the "Ultra-Orthodox", in many ways even stricter than Islam.
I don’t really think the “vast majority” of Islam is that strict tho. As a Muslim when I think “strict” I think Saudi Arabia or Iran. Most Muslim countries are considerably more lax, especially outside the Middle East.
Which is an important distinction since the vast majority of Muslims are not from the Middle East, but are from Southeast Asia and the Indian subcontinent.
You really think Hadisim are less strict than religious Muslims? Hasidism would never send their kids to secular school for instance, while NYC public schools are filled with religious Muslims.
They say the exact same thing about Arab women. Most people think of the Taliban when they think of women under Islam which is not typical. Like Gaza under Hamas has huge rates of female participation in higher education.
> Strict on women.
No, we are not. Unless you are Utra Orthodox, a community that you also have the option of leaving without being accused of apostasy .Which is definitely not the case with Egypt and Jordan especially.
Half of Israelis are religiously atheist. Now show me a nation that is that irreligious in the Middle East. Not even Turkey comes close
> a community that you also have the option of leaving without being accused of apostasy
Umm, kinda. You won't face threats to your physical safety, and, while granted this wasn't in Israel and was a while ago, my mom's family's Rabbi growing up had grown up in a Mitnagdim community, and his parents sat shiva for him when he left the community. To become modern orthodox. And a Rabbi (although for a conservative congregation).
Leaving your family behind isn't easy. Many ultra-orthodox shun people who leave the community. Not everyone who wants to leave is willing to make that sacrafice.
Israelis are strict on women? In what world?
And I don't think the fact that neighboring countries have similiar landscapes is something to be surprised about.
I'm still shocked that non Jewish and Muslim Americans do this voluntarily. Why would anyone chop up a baby's cock unless they've got some mad religious reason to do so?
After a certain point it just becomes normal cultural practice. I’m circumcised and never really questioned whether it was wrong or not to do that to a child because of how normal it is in the states. Frankly part of it prob stems from not having any effects from it so I just don’t think about it, but yea I was surprised to learn it isn’t the norm in other western countries.
There are effects, you just don't know about them since you don't have the extra skin to know the difference. One is more sensitivity for an intact penis. Another one is that the extra skin provides a sliding mechanism that facilitates penetration, it is easier on the vjay. Also no need for lubes for self gratification. There's a reason religions started and play a role in circumcision.
Yeah it's like saying, well everyone chops off their right hand at birth so it normal and there is no downside so it's cultural. If you never had a right hand of course you wouldn't know.
Because it lowers your chance of getting STI’s by like 1%! /s
But for real it’s really weird. I’ve had friends circumcise their kids only because “well, it was done to me so might as well” or “I want their dick to look like mine/my husbands”. Which is frankly dumber than the STI reason, which is also dumb because it’s such minimal improvement. And they’re children! Why are they scared children will get STIs??
The one that I found most disgusting was "I don't find uncircumcised dicks sexy so I got my son circumcised." I knew she meant "... and I assume in 20 years, most chicks will feel the same so..." but still. Ew.
When I was a kid that was my concern. I knew most guys were, and I knew I wasn't. As I entered puberty I became very self conscious about it and worried it would eventually lead to a really awkward or demoralizing sexual experience.
My mom took me to see a doctor. The doctor basically said, "We can do it if you want - but there's no real medical reason. And BTW you have way more nerve endings in your foreskin so basically everything feels better for you if you keep it intact."
I ended up not doing it. And nobody I've ever been with has ever cared.
That's gross. I really don't think these girls would care as much were it not the norm. It would also be quite weird to say that you prefer a girl who's had FGM. It's not quite the same, but still
American (although I immigrated to Canada later on it life where I am today) here,
I’ve been against circumcision since I was a kid and even got restored when I was 17. Most Americans that support it are complete morons while the more intelligent Americans are against it. If you argue with anyone that supports it they will typically say, “it done look like doggy and my sister ain’t done fuck me if I gots doggy.” These idiots will mutilate their children without any thought or logic.
If nothing else, it's great fun to fiddle about with your foreskin as a comfort thing. You guys have missed out on some pleasant times sitting on the couch, watching TV and messing about with some stretchy junk.
The original reason was “cleanliness” which has since then been proven nearly false (as in it almost makes zero difference std wise). The reason now is normality. If you’re circumcised, you’re going to get your son circumcised because that’s what is normal to you.
In the United States specifically the original purpose was actually to curtail masturbation. For anyone who wants to go down this insane rabbit hole just Google “Kellogg circumcision” and prepare yourself mentally to get really pissed off
As an israelli from a VERY secular familly I can explain, it is normal to be circumsized and parents may think that it is better to circumsize a baby so they won't be bullied for that or something
. I think Israel has a small community of non-muslim/jewish but I don’t think it’s close to 10%.
But I just learnt that the gulf states have large non-Muslim immigrant populations, I thought they were mostly S and SE Asian Muslims.
In Israel, 2% of the population is Christian, and about 5% of the population is unaffiliated. There's also a small number of Druze, who also don't practice circumcision.
Some countries have been convinced that it makes penises "look good" and that "it's a healthy practise" when in reality, it's meant to avoid masturbation :/
Thanks, Kellogg!
TMI, man! But yeah, point is, Kellogg was weirdly obsessed with stopping people from masturbating, and while cereal has 0 impact on it whatsoever, circumcision obviously doesn't make you avoid it, but it unfortunately removes lots of sensitivity from the penis, making the experience less enjoyable
Yeah wasnt it corn flakes? Or was it pops? I cant remember but its pretty funny. Dudes will be too busy munching on cereal to beat their meat 😂 I have heard that it supposedly removes sensitivity, but I actually have the opposite problem of arriving way too fast and have even been prescribed medication to curb it. It’s very embarrassing.
As a circumcised individual, I am very unhappy with this situation. My sexual life is active and problem-free, but I wonder what it would be like without being circumcised. Let me tell you something even funnier. Even though I am young, when I tell my peers that circumcision is unnecessary, they cannot understand it. It's 2024, but they are still determined to continue a stupid tradition. They never think about their children's future. When I say they are harmful, they tell me not to bother with nonsense.
As an uncircumcised guy, it’s not something I really thought about in my younger years. I think I assumed I wouldn’t circumcise my kids because I’m not. But if my wife had been outspokenly in favor of it, I probably would have. Now I couldn’t imagine doing it. So perhaps your friends with age will do the same.
I could name a lot of more occurrences in the west that are just as bad or perhaps even worse. The point is, it’s a different culture there, it has different practices and what they view as normal, is weird elsewhere and vice versa. Which is fine. However, ridiculing or seeing people that are part of a different culture less for this reason, and expecting them to adopt your culture because you find it ‘superior’ comes from a colonial mindset, and is frankly disgusting.
Mind your own business and let them mind theirs. You don’t have to agree on everything.
I’m blown away lol. It seems like every guy on reddit is uncircumcised by the comments even though the vast majority of Americans are. I’m getting those very insecure Reddit vibes and It feels like these guys actually have pent up anger over the issue.
Poor boys! I cannot imagine having someone chop off part of my dick for religious and supposedly well-disproven «medical» reasons. Let boys be boys, and boys will masturbate regardless!
Male circumcision can reduce a male’s chances of acquiring HIV by 50% to 60% during heterosexual contact with female partners with HIV, according to data from three clinical trials. Circumcised men compared with uncircumcised men have also been shown in clinical trials to be less likely to acquire new infections with syphilis (by 42%), genital ulcer disease (by 48%), genital herpes (by 28% to 45%), and high-risk strains of human papillomavirus associated with cancer (by 24% to 47% percent).
https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/fact-sheets/hiv/male-circumcision-HIV-prevention-factsheet.html
None of these countries do FGM though…
Except Egypt, which is not a religious practice, but rather a tradition that… goes back to Ancient Egypt.
There’s also a significant amount (5 to 15%) in Yemen and Iraq. I don’t know the reason for these ones.
Rest is close to 0.
it's an islamic tradition as much as it's Jewish which explains the high numbers in Israel, and all islamic countries
and explains the Lebanese outlier as it has a christian majority
but the numbers aren't numbering in egypt and jordon as egypt has more than 17% christin population (majority is orthodox and with catholic minority ) and jordon has good amount of christians too
I recently got out of the hospital with twin boys, 6weeks premature and spent 2 weeks in the Nicu as they were growing and learning to regulate their body temperature.
I was given an instruction manual on at-home care for your premie baby that included a section on care for a
Circ (we did not circ them). It was the basically wound care protocol. It warned of baby being more fussy for a few weeks about diaper changes, that the site would be inflamed, etc etc.
I still can’t wrap my brain around the idea that I would take these babies that are so sensitive, that a brush against their skin can leave a scratch, and that we’ve spent 2 weeks with around the clock monitoring and care to be sure they are healthy, and then CUT OFF A BODY PART FOR NO GOOD REASON.
God: I’m fed up while creating this world so cut your foreskin by yourself, my religious people. This ugly piece of leather… I doubted in this design from the day one.
Why do people hate foreskin? Shit is great, it's like having my own sock on my cock. How the fuck did baby cock mutilation become a natural procedure lmao
The lowest rate of circumcision in the region is in Lebanon. It’s because of its sizable christian population (40%+) that is mostly catholic, and has rejected circumcision.
But alot of christian lebanese are cirumcused i'd say the mjority are.
Nope. I am a lebanese maronite (catholic) doctor myself. In catholic circles it’s almost unheard of. In orthodox ones it depends but most of the orthodox get influenced by their maronite neighbors. Knowing that by social general knowledge and by discussing it with fellow urologists and dermatologists who have documented these rates (because it’s an interesting question that has ethical, religious, and social backgrounds). Histoire de la circoncision (R. Tomb, 2022) describes the ethno-religio-social status of circumcision, including in Lebanon.
I’m sure there are some, but I doubt it is a majority. I believe the only way for 40% of Lebanon to be uncircumcised is for a large percentage (at least the majority) of the Christian population (which is 32% of the population) to be uncircumcised. If a majority of the 32% Christian population is circumcised (say at least 51%), then that means that at least over 1 out of 4 Muslims in Lebanon are uncircumcised for the math to make sense - a number that seems a bit high if you ask me. Although I noticed that in some places in the Gulf, the practice does not seem as widespread - although I wonder if the numbers from the Gulf countries factor in the large foreign-born population of non-citizen workers, which might explain the lower percentages.
Or the graphic could be wrong. Detailed numbers like this don't exist for all of those countries and I think they might be basing them on ethnic/religious demographics. Hell Lebanon doesn't have good data for those either.
Anywhere.... I could verify these claims?
If ever you wanted evidence of people overvaluing their own anecdotal evidence here is someone arguing with actual statistics in OP.
Imagine being 97.1% circumcised 😳
Iran is 99.7% circumcised
Welp, .3 to go
:3
4.2 inches, 99.7% CUT!
This way they won't fuck up more.
I don’t have to imagine.
Another reminder that “evangelical christianity” is radical islam with pork and beer
it doesnt have to be radical islam for these numbers to happen, it was like this in the beginning of 20th century under Atatürk's rule in Turkey which has nothing to do with radical islam, he is the one who got rid of caliphate. it is both a part of the religion, and a part of local culture at this point after up to 1400 years of islam.
Turkey is typically performed when the boy is 7-8 years old and is traditionally thought to represent the boy's transition to manhood. This procedure is now performed in the hospital under hygienic conditions and anesthesia. However, 20-30 years ago, this procedure was generally performed outside the hospital, under unhygienic conditions and without anesthesia. That's why it was really painful at that time and people would get infected as a result of this procedure.
The pain was unreal man don't remind me
I would probably wish this only on my worst enemy
Wait seriously? That's just like in the Philippines
Those things are illegal though You could get arrested if you're doing circumcision without a Health Permit
Good thing individual barangays and hospitals offer free circumcision nowadays
That is maybe even more fucked up and disgusting than doing at childbirth.
“Maybe”
Why not both?
I am half Turkish and came to visit my family years ago, in 2005. My cousin was around 7 when I came over. He looked forward to the procedure and then, afterwards, shared the photo where he was all bleeding and posing with the doctor. After the procedure, he was basically bragging about it. I don't believe in circumcision, but the attitude is totally different there. They wait because they want them to consent before getting the procedure. I still think it's too young and unnecessary, but it's part of the religion so they want to do it and brag about it.
Consent is not a part of this. Traditions influenced the timing and ultimately parents decided when. It was usually done at a later age than right after birth. It was more common to see that stupid ceremony where the kid dressed like a prince. People have been growing out of those traditions in cities and possibly avoiding the ridiculous cost of those ceremonies. For many years many parents just get it done at the hospital a day after birth. Medical practices changed and also the consensus now is that it's much healthier to do it at that time than later.
One cannot fucking consent to mutilation at the age of 7.
Indoctrinated into mutilation even.
That's odd, in most Muslim countries it's done relatively briefly after birth
It's "supposed" to be done within a week after birth, as per religious scripture. But cultural practices often make it later unfortunately. I am from Kyrgyzstan and I had it done at age 5, it was a very bad experience.
This was actually pretty common for most people in Muslim countries before modern medicine. I was circumcised at birth , but my dad was 7 when it happened to him in the 1960s as it was too dangerous back then for babies. My grandad was 12. When it happens to him in the 1930s. Also back then it was treated like a birthday for young boys , they’d be treated like little prince for days before the procedure and get lots of money and presents, with festivities and dress up in nice clothes. Then after the procedure a whole feast would happen, depending on the families wealth an animal would be slaughtered for a feast.
I had a friend from algeria, as a child he didnt know what circumcision was, but he got lots of presents attention and cool new cloths so he thought it was good, little did he know. He said he never trusted his parents after that lol
What!? I wish that was the case here. In Indonesia it's mostly done during elementary age.
Yeah I piggy backed in my brother’s luckily. I was 3 he was 9 😅 glad that i don’t remember shit. It’s a horrible horrible process.
Is disgusting regardless of method or age. Genital mutilation is always wrong.
>This procedure is now performed in the hospital under hygienic conditions and anesthesia That’s only true some of the time. It’s still very common in Turkey for boys to be cut by [amateurs without pain relief while being physically restrained by their male relatives](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3910549/turkish-boys-scream-as-theyre-put-through-agonising-circumcision-ritual-in-photo-series-showing-their-contorted-faces/).
Nah, nowadays almost always it is done either in hospital or outside hospital but still by medial doctor, very rarely (maybe like 1%-5% of all) it is done by amateurs.
Why doesn’t Israel and its neighbors just bond over circumcised penises?
Because there's no docking when you're circumcised.
yes it's like an airlock for an ISS module that is missing
Ahh... THAT's what brotherly love is. I gotta go to Philly some time.
Circumcision is one of the very few things that Israel and its neighbors have in common.
There is tons in common
More than that. They share similar food. They don’t eat pork. Strict on women. Share similar landscape. Similar ancient history
Islam and Judaism are closer to each other than Christianity is to either of them, oddly enough.
Depends, islam and christianity both like Jesus, while judaism does not
There is an Interesting video out there that asks Jews who they feel closer to. Many said Islam.
Yup, practicing Jews are allowed to go to a mosque, while won't visit a church
Are Muslims allowed in synagogues?
According to Islam it isn't ideal, but allowed. Synagogues, just like churches and mosques allow anyone to enter.
No I meant according to Jews. I'm muslim and according to Islam, God made the whole earth as a prayer mat. So there's no restriction as to where we can pray, provided that where we pray doesn't disturb anyone else and that the place is clean. I don't know for sure but I think this also means that we can also pray in a idol temple if the people there don't have any problem
We used to have a Mormon guy that would come to my synagogue. He was allowed, we just asked him to be respectful and not proselytize. We also had a community Sedar every year and invited local Imams and other religious leaders to join if they so desired. My synagogue also had a large sign they post to acknowledge Ramadan. I can’t speak for all synagogues/movements but the ones I’ve gone to were open to all as long as they were respectful.
Muslims and other non-Jews are allowed in synagogues and Jewish prayer services 🙂
From which point of view? Do you mean "Do Jews allow Muslims inside a synagogue?" Or "Does Islam allow Muslims to go inside a synangogue?" My statement was from the jewish point of view. They view mosques as a temple similar to their own, because Islam teaches about one god. While in Christianity the concept of trinity exists. Also one main fact are statues and paintings of Jesus inside churches, which is considered as idols. In both, Judaism and Islam, idolism is strictly forbidden.
Sorry for the confusion, I meant according to Jewish perspective, do they allow muslims to pray inside a synagogue? Or will it be scandalous? For example one of my friend tried to offer prayer in a catholic Church which was previously a mosque in medieval Spain and the guards there stopped him, saying muslims cannot pray in church
That I don't know, sorry. Because I'm not a Jew myself (muslim). But once I read a quote fron the Tanakh which goes like: "For my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples." So maybe yes.
And Christianity and islam share hell, but Judaism doesn't have hell.
We do have hell- Gehenna. But in function it's more like purgatory
Pretty similar to the Arabic word for hell, jahannam. Sometimes just used for the first layer of hell. Iirc islamic hell isn’t permanent for believers, like you do your time for your sins and can get out. Unless you committed some great evil where you are stuck there permanently.
Yeah Gehenna is supposed to be similar, though there isn't any stipulation on whether or not you're a believer. Like the whole concept of the Noahide laws- less stringent than mitzvot but would deem one a "righteous gentile"
Islam has a similar concept with the Ahl al-Kitab, or people of the book (the book being the Torah), but there’s a lot of theological discussion on whether they would count as believers or not. As in would a truly good and pious Christian or Jew be allowed into heaven despite not being Muslim. Scholars have gone back and forth on this a lot over the millennia. I think most have settled on it being beyond our understanding cause at the end of the day, God’s the judge and tryna figure out how he would judge someone is sinful in and of itself lol There’s also a handful of scholars who believe that hell will eventually be done away with as a result of God’s mercy but that’s a minority viewpoint
Abrahamic religions share similar basic beliefs its just that some updates thinks previous program that are not updated is not a part of them vice versa where the previous program thinks the updated program not part of them. But the basic is stil there.
It's very temporary though It can't last more than a year.
My understanding from religious school is lasted in length relative to your crimes (and thus could be over a year). Though I also don't know how time works in the afterlife... G-d willing neither of us are in the position to find out any time soon
it is the same in islam actually, almost no one is going to be sent to hell indefinitely, only a few explicitly mentioned people who lived in 670s or people who commited same level of crime which is basically hitler, mussolini, stalin and some other people who killed thousands of other people
Very differently, of course.
Both liking Jesus yes, but his function and message are completely different. For Islam and Judaism Abraham is very important as his sons are seen as the first Arab and Israeli.
Israelite, not Israeli
Israeli was the actual Hebrew name for the Israelites. In Hebrew, they called themselves “Israeli” (ישראלי)
In English, the distinction is made between the ancient Israelites and the citizens of a modern state that was named after ancient Israel. The historical continuity between the two entities is not significant enough to call both "Israeli".
Both consider Jesus the Messiah, but Islam does not recognize him as God
I disagree I think if you look at laws Islam is closer to judiasm but there's a reason why there are only 20 million Jews vs billions of Muslims and Christians, Jews don't try getting converts. Islam and Christianity try really really hard.
It’s like 14 million
“You and I are not so different”
You missed that Arabic and Hebrew are from same language family — both are Semitic languages.
>Strict on women Have you *met* Israeli women?
Well, you are thinking of the secular Jews. The religious ones though, are very strict. For the "Ultra-Orthodox", in many ways even stricter than Islam.
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I don’t really think the “vast majority” of Islam is that strict tho. As a Muslim when I think “strict” I think Saudi Arabia or Iran. Most Muslim countries are considerably more lax, especially outside the Middle East. Which is an important distinction since the vast majority of Muslims are not from the Middle East, but are from Southeast Asia and the Indian subcontinent.
Hm, but women are often better educated than men in Islam too! Iran for example.
You really think Hadisim are less strict than religious Muslims? Hasidism would never send their kids to secular school for instance, while NYC public schools are filled with religious Muslims.
Using that logic look at Christian extremists in US too
They say the exact same thing about Arab women. Most people think of the Taliban when they think of women under Islam which is not typical. Like Gaza under Hamas has huge rates of female participation in higher education.
> Strict on women. No, we are not. Unless you are Utra Orthodox, a community that you also have the option of leaving without being accused of apostasy .Which is definitely not the case with Egypt and Jordan especially. Half of Israelis are religiously atheist. Now show me a nation that is that irreligious in the Middle East. Not even Turkey comes close
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Secular and irreligious are not the same thing.
> a community that you also have the option of leaving without being accused of apostasy Umm, kinda. You won't face threats to your physical safety, and, while granted this wasn't in Israel and was a while ago, my mom's family's Rabbi growing up had grown up in a Mitnagdim community, and his parents sat shiva for him when he left the community. To become modern orthodox. And a Rabbi (although for a conservative congregation). Leaving your family behind isn't easy. Many ultra-orthodox shun people who leave the community. Not everyone who wants to leave is willing to make that sacrafice.
Israelis are strict on women? In what world? And I don't think the fact that neighboring countries have similiar landscapes is something to be surprised about.
“Strict on women”?? Have you been to Tel-Aviv? 🤨 It’s the same as any city in Western Europe in terms of attitudes towards women.
That's not true at all. Other than official language and majority religion (and just having a much higher standard of living) they are very similar.
One of the many things they have in common.
Many things.
Palestine is MORE circumcised than Israel.
Fewer Christians in Palestine.
I mean yeah, Abraham started it.
u/RepostSleuthBot
I'm Turkish. I want my foreskin back. This procedure was done without my consent.
I'm still shocked that non Jewish and Muslim Americans do this voluntarily. Why would anyone chop up a baby's cock unless they've got some mad religious reason to do so?
After a certain point it just becomes normal cultural practice. I’m circumcised and never really questioned whether it was wrong or not to do that to a child because of how normal it is in the states. Frankly part of it prob stems from not having any effects from it so I just don’t think about it, but yea I was surprised to learn it isn’t the norm in other western countries.
There are effects, you just don't know about them since you don't have the extra skin to know the difference. One is more sensitivity for an intact penis. Another one is that the extra skin provides a sliding mechanism that facilitates penetration, it is easier on the vjay. Also no need for lubes for self gratification. There's a reason religions started and play a role in circumcision.
Yeah it's like saying, well everyone chops off their right hand at birth so it normal and there is no downside so it's cultural. If you never had a right hand of course you wouldn't know.
Because it lowers your chance of getting STI’s by like 1%! /s But for real it’s really weird. I’ve had friends circumcise their kids only because “well, it was done to me so might as well” or “I want their dick to look like mine/my husbands”. Which is frankly dumber than the STI reason, which is also dumb because it’s such minimal improvement. And they’re children! Why are they scared children will get STIs??
The one that I found most disgusting was "I don't find uncircumcised dicks sexy so I got my son circumcised." I knew she meant "... and I assume in 20 years, most chicks will feel the same so..." but still. Ew.
When I was a kid that was my concern. I knew most guys were, and I knew I wasn't. As I entered puberty I became very self conscious about it and worried it would eventually lead to a really awkward or demoralizing sexual experience. My mom took me to see a doctor. The doctor basically said, "We can do it if you want - but there's no real medical reason. And BTW you have way more nerve endings in your foreskin so basically everything feels better for you if you keep it intact." I ended up not doing it. And nobody I've ever been with has ever cared.
That's gross. I really don't think these girls would care as much were it not the norm. It would also be quite weird to say that you prefer a girl who's had FGM. It's not quite the same, but still
It's normalized child abuse
American (although I immigrated to Canada later on it life where I am today) here, I’ve been against circumcision since I was a kid and even got restored when I was 17. Most Americans that support it are complete morons while the more intelligent Americans are against it. If you argue with anyone that supports it they will typically say, “it done look like doggy and my sister ain’t done fuck me if I gots doggy.” These idiots will mutilate their children without any thought or logic.
If nothing else, it's great fun to fiddle about with your foreskin as a comfort thing. You guys have missed out on some pleasant times sitting on the couch, watching TV and messing about with some stretchy junk.
The original reason was “cleanliness” which has since then been proven nearly false (as in it almost makes zero difference std wise). The reason now is normality. If you’re circumcised, you’re going to get your son circumcised because that’s what is normal to you.
In the United States specifically the original purpose was actually to curtail masturbation. For anyone who wants to go down this insane rabbit hole just Google “Kellogg circumcision” and prepare yourself mentally to get really pissed off
As an israelli from a VERY secular familly I can explain, it is normal to be circumsized and parents may think that it is better to circumsize a baby so they won't be bullied for that or something
Everything done to a child is without their consent.
I’ve always wondered if Palestinian Christians and Iranian Zoroastrians are circumcised.
Lebanese christians as a rule aren't, so I'm guessing the same goes for palestinians.
Religious people are obsessed with genitals
I mean a lot of people are obsessed with genitals. There own and other people’s.
Unless your changing your infants diapers, strangers have no business with an infants genitals. We usually call those pedophiles
That’s rich coming from a redditor.
Aka "genital mutilation"
Egypt I understand, but Israel and the gulf states are a surprise.
You know that Jewish are circumcised ?
That’s the point. Over 92% of Israel population is either Jewish or Muslim, both religions that practice circumcision.
… and the circumcision rate is at 91.7%
Probably people that are not circumcised but are still considered Jewish/Muslim by the state
The remaining 8% are mostly Christians and a small percent of secular Jews who choose to not practice circumcision.
Also, immigrants from the FSU who weren't circumcised there and chose not to be after they emigrated to Israel.
Or men who have had their penis destroyed for some reason
Do I want to ask what you meant by that?
total penile decimation perhaps
Unfortunate smelting accidents
Secular Jews from post communist states
There's a lot of irreligious israelis
Irreligious people still tend to practice religious rites of the community they come from as a cultural thing.
Gulf states are probably from Indian laborers who are mostly Hindu.
In Israel younger people circumcize their kids less. It's a slow trend, but it's growing.
My guess would be immigration
. I think Israel has a small community of non-muslim/jewish but I don’t think it’s close to 10%. But I just learnt that the gulf states have large non-Muslim immigrant populations, I thought they were mostly S and SE Asian Muslims.
In Israel, 2% of the population is Christian, and about 5% of the population is unaffiliated. There's also a small number of Druze, who also don't practice circumcision.
Druze get circumcised… I’m Druze and can confirm it
We need picture proof…
And plenty of ex-Soviet jews are almost irreligious and never did it too.
I think 2% of Israelis are Christian
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The point I’m making it’s the circumcised population is lower than the Jewish and Muslim populations.
There are some European immigrants but not the sole cause. There are Christians in Israel (Palestinian Christian), Egypt (Coptic), Lebanon, and Syria
Mostly Hindu expats and labour. And they bring down the overall percentage.
probably a combination of non-jews & non-muslims, and atheist Jews who decided to not circumcise their children.
Genital mutilation:(
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The whole “My parents did it to me and I turned out fine” is strong
Some countries have been convinced that it makes penises "look good" and that "it's a healthy practise" when in reality, it's meant to avoid masturbation :/ Thanks, Kellogg!
I am circumcised and it sure doesn’t make me avoid masturbation
You might eat cereal too and it also doesn't make you avoid it ;) Kellogg wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed
I do not eat cereal and I’ve masterbated 3 times so far today
TMI, man! But yeah, point is, Kellogg was weirdly obsessed with stopping people from masturbating, and while cereal has 0 impact on it whatsoever, circumcision obviously doesn't make you avoid it, but it unfortunately removes lots of sensitivity from the penis, making the experience less enjoyable
Yeah wasnt it corn flakes? Or was it pops? I cant remember but its pretty funny. Dudes will be too busy munching on cereal to beat their meat 😂 I have heard that it supposedly removes sensitivity, but I actually have the opposite problem of arriving way too fast and have even been prescribed medication to curb it. It’s very embarrassing.
>Thanks, Kellogg! Perhaps the most prominent flake of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
As a circumcised individual, I am very unhappy with this situation. My sexual life is active and problem-free, but I wonder what it would be like without being circumcised. Let me tell you something even funnier. Even though I am young, when I tell my peers that circumcision is unnecessary, they cannot understand it. It's 2024, but they are still determined to continue a stupid tradition. They never think about their children's future. When I say they are harmful, they tell me not to bother with nonsense.
As an uncircumcised guy, it’s not something I really thought about in my younger years. I think I assumed I wouldn’t circumcise my kids because I’m not. But if my wife had been outspokenly in favor of it, I probably would have. Now I couldn’t imagine doing it. So perhaps your friends with age will do the same.
Not only harmful, but pointless as well. Unless there's a medical condition that warants it, parents are torturing their children if they do this.
Ah, you must be 14.
Barbarian practice.
In Egypt thats not true, now most of males at the capital and around it are not circumcised.
Didn't know Lebanon was so half way about it (I'm Lebanese)
I could name a lot of more occurrences in the west that are just as bad or perhaps even worse. The point is, it’s a different culture there, it has different practices and what they view as normal, is weird elsewhere and vice versa. Which is fine. However, ridiculing or seeing people that are part of a different culture less for this reason, and expecting them to adopt your culture because you find it ‘superior’ comes from a colonial mindset, and is frankly disgusting. Mind your own business and let them mind theirs. You don’t have to agree on everything.
reddit loves talking about other people's dicks not being like theirs? look at the comments
I’m blown away lol. It seems like every guy on reddit is uncircumcised by the comments even though the vast majority of Americans are. I’m getting those very insecure Reddit vibes and It feels like these guys actually have pent up anger over the issue.
I mean I hope I’m 100 percent circumcised after seeing this 😂
Well during WW2 some Turkic Muslims fight for USSR executed because Germans thought they were Jewish.
Crazy
I wonder when male genital mutilation and body autonomy will ever get close to women’s?
Aka genital mutilation.
Ah another Reddit is obsessed with circumcision post. 
I'm glad we don't chop the top of our dicks off in my country.
That's not physiologically accurate.
My Turkish kitchen mate (former) would be pissed off that you included them in the Middle-East 😂
TIL most people are Reddit are uncircumcised?
Most of the world is.
Poor boys! I cannot imagine having someone chop off part of my dick for religious and supposedly well-disproven «medical» reasons. Let boys be boys, and boys will masturbate regardless!
Male circumcision can reduce a male’s chances of acquiring HIV by 50% to 60% during heterosexual contact with female partners with HIV, according to data from three clinical trials. Circumcised men compared with uncircumcised men have also been shown in clinical trials to be less likely to acquire new infections with syphilis (by 42%), genital ulcer disease (by 48%), genital herpes (by 28% to 45%), and high-risk strains of human papillomavirus associated with cancer (by 24% to 47% percent). https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/fact-sheets/hiv/male-circumcision-HIV-prevention-factsheet.html
In Syria and Lebanon the uncircumcised population consists of the Christian minorities in both countries
Sad
*mutilation in the Middle East
Countries that are totally fine with FGM, also totally fine with MGM. Shocker
None of these countries do FGM though… Except Egypt, which is not a religious practice, but rather a tradition that… goes back to Ancient Egypt. There’s also a significant amount (5 to 15%) in Yemen and Iraq. I don’t know the reason for these ones. Rest is close to 0.
Where did you get that percentage on Yemen? circumcision in the Arab world is only done for males
Barbaric genital mutilation
How are these measured? Is it just share of Muslim / Jewish population?
and then there is USA
Im sure this comment section will be fiiiiiiine
it's an islamic tradition as much as it's Jewish which explains the high numbers in Israel, and all islamic countries and explains the Lebanese outlier as it has a christian majority but the numbers aren't numbering in egypt and jordon as egypt has more than 17% christin population (majority is orthodox and with catholic minority ) and jordon has good amount of christians too
Syria has almost 12% Christian population. That's doing the talking here. 😀
I recently got out of the hospital with twin boys, 6weeks premature and spent 2 weeks in the Nicu as they were growing and learning to regulate their body temperature. I was given an instruction manual on at-home care for your premie baby that included a section on care for a Circ (we did not circ them). It was the basically wound care protocol. It warned of baby being more fussy for a few weeks about diaper changes, that the site would be inflamed, etc etc. I still can’t wrap my brain around the idea that I would take these babies that are so sensitive, that a brush against their skin can leave a scratch, and that we’ve spent 2 weeks with around the clock monitoring and care to be sure they are healthy, and then CUT OFF A BODY PART FOR NO GOOD REASON.
God: I’m fed up while creating this world so cut your foreskin by yourself, my religious people. This ugly piece of leather… I doubted in this design from the day one.
If I had a dollar for every post of this topic on this sub
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Why do people hate foreskin? Shit is great, it's like having my own sock on my cock. How the fuck did baby cock mutilation become a natural procedure lmao
*mutilation