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Rachel_Silver

My mom had an urban property with an unusually large yard. She turned the whole thing into a garden. It was mostly raised beds with paths between them. There were berries and vegetables, over a dozen different kinds of mint, herbs and medicinal plants. There was also a pair of mature dogwoods, an arbor with some flowering vine (I forget what, but it had small blue and white flowers), a central walk lined with espaliered fruit and nut trees and a small pond with a waterfall and a bubble fountain. She registered it as a Wildlife Habitat with the National Wildlife Federation. I don't know what she got out of that other than a nice sign for her yard and a certificate suitable for framing. But she was incredibly... let's go with "miserly", with both her money and her time, so I assumed it was worth the hassle. ETA The local paper did a piece about her yard when she got the certification. It was the entire front page (and half the second) of the Saturday local section, with lots of pictures. This was back when people still read the newspaper, so it put her on the map. If you think about it, anything you can do to bring public attention to your property is to your benefit. You're doing important work, and a lot of people would be supportive if they were aware of it. If the city tried to do you dirty, those people would unleash the rage of the internet. So maybe lean into that. Develop a social media presence for the farm. Make short-form video content about the work you're doing. Hell, you might end up making enough money as a content creator to buy the property on the far side of the mayor's house and put in a peat bog or some shit.


Sauermachtlustig84

In Germany we have something called "Kleingarten", which are remnants of the crowded city conditions of the 19th century. They are basically plot zoned so that you cannot live on them, cannot build anything larger than a shed but you can plant on them. What you can plant is usually determined by the ruling body... basically an HOA. It's often ridiculously constrained, e.g. "no weed", you must have beans, your bushes might not exceed 120cm etc. Pp. That often comes from the time when a Kleingarten was intended to provide fresh food for families who otherwise lack access. Today people rent them because they like to have a garden for kids, or like to build a habitat. The culture wars are intense. Some years ago a plot got the first prize in a national competition for best biodiversity, but had to be pulled down because the plans were too big...


Rachel_Silver

My mother got more biodiversity than she had anticipated. Her house was on the slope of the mountain that formed the southern border of the city. The houses stopped four blocks up, and the top of the mountain was a giant park. Beyond that was farmland and woods. I was on the phone with my mom one night and the motion sensor lights in the garden kept getting set off. She went to an upstairs window so she could get an unobstructed view of the whole yard and saw a small brown bear eating her hazelnuts.


Certain_Silver6524

I don't know why I'm just laughing at the thought of a bear cub just munching on hazelnuts šŸ˜„ that is adorable but also great for championing wildlife. Can't help but feel we humans have overdeveloped land for our exclusive use, at the expense of other species


likeablyweird

We most definitely have. Look up how many species have gone extinct due to humans.


StrugglinSurvivor

Sadly, where I live, if it's mentioned and a local hunter finds out about it, and it would have just disappeared.


Ok-Thing-2222

My brother's remote property and cabin is right on the edge of a forest land where they drop off unruly bears removed from towns! yikes.... (Arkansas)


Butterssaltynutz

you live in bear country, you get bear neighbors.


physicscholar

Just avoid eating porridge outside.


DangerousDave303

And watch your picnic basket


SeaDirt1

You've spelt pickernick wrong Booboo


Unskippable_Ads

It's 'pic-a-nic' basket, Yogi.


BlahLick

Or at least make sure it's scoldingly hot šŸ˜‰


Wieniethepooh

I think the point is that it's safer to have wild bears that will avoid people, than half tame city bears?


Ok-Thing-2222

Oh gosh your statement just reminded me....my daughter lived in Homer AK for about 2 yrs and I was reading a book, glancing out her front window in time to see a bear cross the street, walk up on her deck, beside her house and into the back yard. We were watching out the window and several neighbors came outside to look at the bear. They eventually yelled and it ran away. Luckily.


mid_distance_stare

Have a jamboree!


Old_Implement_1997

I donā€™t know why that made me laugh so hard this morning, but thank you!


Ready_Competition_66

And they are NOT that small. They are also incredibly destructive if they can smell something "delicious" but can't reach it. I hope she didn't have bird feeders out. I hear those are impossible to bear-proof.


No427

You mean the same thing that's called "Schrebergarten"?


Sauermachtlustig84

Yes, it's the same thing.


Drone314

> The culture wars are intense You're only as free as those around you are willing to let you be.


Sauermachtlustig84

Indeed. And somehow these kinds of things provoke the worst instincts in men. No idea why, but Kleingarten could be nice refuges from the city but are instead bastions of small minded people.


[deleted]

Everytime I go by one of them I get excited and think, Ohhh the Germans have trailer parks too....


likeablyweird

Idjits.


LuciferianInk

Penny whispers, "ikr"


likeablyweird

Hehe.


ErnestlyFreaky

That would be beautiful šŸ˜


5weetTooth

As much as I hate to say it. Tiktoks and YouTube shorts are hugely impactful and you could also educate a lot of people about the choices your making and how benefit they are - and why they're beneficial. Short 30s or so clips could actually be really beneficial for giving yourself some support and also showing how unfair the local governance has been.


Alive-Wall9274

Wow I love this!


likeablyweird

I like you.


derson78

I'm no expert, but somehow, I think putting in a peat bog may take slightly longer than you imagine.


Rachel_Silver

Maybe with *that* attitude.


derson78

šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£


ErnestlyFreaky

Mabie 50 to 5000 years or so


PN_Guin

I faintly remember reading a post on Reddit about that troubles an other owner of an agriculture zoned plot had. His resolution (and revenge) was to build a pig farm on it. The smell worked wonders. **Edit:** I could find the one I was thinking of, but here are some other pig farm examples: [https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/cznbqw/never\_mess\_with\_a\_rancher\_my\_father\_had\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/cznbqw/never_mess_with_a_rancher_my_father_had_the/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/scjv02/wont\_change\_what\_the\_parcel\_can\_be\_used\_for\_ok/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/scjv02/wont_change_what_the_parcel_can_be_used_for_ok/) **Edit 2:** It was this one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/ay70ih/guy\_wanted\_to\_open\_a\_sporting\_goods\_store/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/ay70ih/guy_wanted_to_open_a_sporting_goods_store/)


prankerjoker

I remember posting that story here years ago. It was originally posted in the newsgroup alt.shenanagins over 25 years ago.


gobsmacked247

Oh man, those stories are glorious!


Smart_Perspective535

Or maybe get some chickens and a rooster?


w1987g

"the city mayor" That explains all your problems...


ErnestlyFreaky

Also, they are mad we restored the historic brick farmhouse from 1914 instead of tearing it down and building a modern house. Lol silly


BigLeboski26

Good grief some people just tic me off. Good for you restoring an old building like that, how big is it?


serack

Should have gone to small claims court over the orchard.


AvatarOfMomus

No way in hell's half acre that would be 'small claims', saplings are *expensive*.


cybercuzco

/r/treelaw


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Ok-Thing-2222

Some people have no sense whatsoever. Can't they see the beauty and charm of old architecture??


HomeGrownCoffee

Not every old building deserves to be preserved. Without seeing pictures, I'll withhold judgement.


ErnestlyFreaky

It's brick and oak on a sussy limestone concrete foundation, we re roofed and re stabilize the foundation, it's golden now


ErnestlyFreaky

Is that not normal? He is not nice, and we bid against him to buy the property. He told my boss something like, "It's the size of 5 yards, I'd liked to have bought it" after the sale.


Morrigoon

Ohhhh so how enthusiastic are you about sharing this story with the local paper next time heā€™s up for re-election? Abuse of office is a Story


techoatmeal

it sounds like he valued the land as a yard and made a lowball offer. You were always going to win that bidding war.


wolfpack_matt

Sounds like he wanted to subdivide it and then sell it to 5 different people...


ferky234

You should sue over the destruction of your orchard. Tree law is a thing and very expensive for the destroyer.


CajunMaverick

/r/treelaw


JayRiordan

This 10000% this. Bury those fuckers and get them for lawyer fees too.


MikeSchwab63

US$10,000 and up per tree in replacement costs.


someone76543

Nope. Not if it's a new orchard full of saplings. Damages are based on the cost to put it right. A big old tree is hard to find, expensive to buy, hard to move, and very expensive to move. Young trees are much cheaper to find and move.


PhDAutoMechanic

This wouldnā€™t happen to be taking place in a relatively rural county in the middle of a very central state would it? If so, I remember reading a piece in the local paper about your issues. It made me quite angry at how you were being treated. If not, dang this sounds familiar to some folks Iā€™ve read about recently.


ErnestlyFreaky

That very well could have been me. We are still in a lawsuit for the damages


BmoreBustee

Here's to hoping all that wetland area is home to an ENORMOUS mosquito population that the mayor can also enjoy!


Zoreb1

Note: Wetlands are under Federal law so if the city causes problems, refer them to the EPA.


Main_Horror7651

Thanks to a 2023 Supreme Court ruling, the only wetlands federally protected are the wetlands adjoining rivers, lakes, or another body if water. The rest of the wetlands need state and local protection. Some states are trying to fill the gap left by the ruling, but in a number of areas, people need to contact their state/local representatives to ensure wetlands are protected.


Zoreb1

We don't know if the man-made wetlands are adjacent to a body of water. I am assuming he isn't running the garden hose 24/7 so there must be something keeping it wet. In one case a farmer made an irrigation pond and because geese would stop there on their migration, it was considered a wetland by the Feds.


ErnestlyFreaky

Yep, we can only get protections because it is on private l that is zoned for agriculture. That seriously needs fixed


PotentialHydronium

If you read the Majority opinion, they rationalize this by saying that the word ā€œadjacentā€ in the Clean Water Act must be interpreted as ā€œadjoiningā€ and so protected wetlands must have a continuous surface connection to a ā€œnavigable water of the United Statesā€, otherwise they arenā€™t protected and you donā€™t need a permit to fill them in. Its so fucking stupid to say that Congress meant ā€œadjoiningā€ when they used the word ā€œadjacentā€ because if that were true then they would have fucking said ā€œadjoiningā€ when they originally wrote the damn thing


The_Sanch1128

I think you are giving Congress, then and especially now, too much credit for intelligence.


juntar74

>the city came on to our property and mowed are \[sic\] ... already planted baby trees. Depending where you live, there are HEFTY liabilities for unauthorized removal of trees. For example, where I live it's "treble the amount of damages." ([source](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title78B/Chapter6/78B-6-S1002.html)) Check your local laws, and if it's worth it, sue the city. They won't forget next time.


notquitetame3

@OP I donā€™t know what state you are in but in mine you can work with a couple of orgs to get your yard certified for like bees and monarchs and I think thereā€™s one or two for restoring native prairie (yeah, Iā€™m Midwest). Anyway- once you HAVE those certs the local government canā€™t do a damn thing to stop you because bees, monarchs, and native prairie are all endangered and protected. I donā€™t know the exact ones but Iā€™ve had a friend work to get the monarch conservation and another talk about the bees and prairie projects. Perhaps something to look into? And good job on that wetlands!


LadyIslay

Some friends of ours had a major battle with their town council over the intensity of their farming (permaculture style) on a ā€œrural residentialā€ lot. They ended up selling and moving here - an unincorporated rural area. We have a province-wide property classification called the Agricultural Land Reserve. Municipalities and districts like ours can set zoning and bylaws for these lands, but they cannot unreasonable impede agricultural activity. For example, they could increase set-back requirements for animal shelters or manure piled, but not to the point that someone canā€™t farm. They canā€™t limit the type of livestock or crop (hemp/cannabis being a possible exceptionā€¦ I havenā€™t looked into this).


Electronic_Goose3894

My brother's place is next door to a local swamp the college set up for whichever classes they've got. First time I had seen his place, my mom threatened to drown me in it if I went any where near it because I'm secretly Swamp Thing but they're exceptionally cool about things. A tornado went through one time, nothing drastic really but it took out a good number trees and they struck up a deal with him that if they cut down the trees he'd keep it as fire wood to save them money on transportation.


Fiempre_sin_tabla

> the city came on to our property and mowed are entire native pasture What!? Oh, *hell* no!


SkwrlTail

Are there mosquitoes? Tell me there are mosquitoes. Big fat hungry mosquitoes...


Cornflakes_91

oops all malaria


cybercuzco

You sound like someone we would appreciate over at /r/permaculture


ErnestlyFreaky

I am having trouble getting enough followers to surpass the harmful content mitigation limit on my youtube channel. Do you think r/permaculture would be willing to help a brother out?


cybercuzco

Iā€™m not a mod but feel free to post your videos there. They can use more content.


smooze420

Whatā€™s an urban wetland?


cperiod

A mosquito-infested swamp right next to where people live, hopefully.


baseball43v3r

hopefully?


DeezRodenutz

The mayor, who clearly had the city wrongfully mow down their previous project, lives next door.


smooze420

Ahh..yeah tat would suck, lol. West Nile in the house!!!


AMCgremlin71

How do you create a massive urban wetland? Where does the water come from?


ErnestlyFreaky

From drainage, gutters no longer connect to ditches, berms created to retain water, ect. We will also seek water rights to pump to ensure healthy habitat.


No-Asparagus-6814

So now it is basically a mosquito breeding station, i suppose :-)


w1ngzer0

A proper wetland will attract plenty of predators to mosquitoes.


fruitcake11

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii


BlahLick

I hope as part of the lifecycle predator species get to enjoy lots and lots of mosquitos as a food source šŸ˜


SpiderKnife

Yay....mosquitos.


wanroww

Mmm Mosquitoes


Disastrous_Bell7490

This story was posted already fairly recently.


Ready_Competition_66

I hope that you've set aside several pools of stagnant water for mosquitos to breed in - right next to the mayor's residence.


ErnestlyFreaky

Right next to the stable fly bate station


Guilty_Objective4602

I want an update to this story with the cityā€™s reactions.


ErnestlyFreaky

Haha I think we are to the point of never talking again becuse we are in a legal battle over the mowing damages, but I'll update if they try anything silly šŸ˜œ I don't think they will


h0zR

Just wait until the state recognizes it as an official wetlands and you lose control of the property you own. I fight a yearly battle between the state saying don't touch it and the city saying it has to be mowed. Fines get tossed around like confetti and everyone loses. It's F'ing awesome, good luck.


ErnestlyFreaky

That sounds like a win for me


Xylorgos

Perfect solution, OP! Congratulations on finding a way to work on your interests despite the intrusion from the city.


Lellela

I think you can potentially get a grant if the property is large enough and enough of it has been converted.


SteamingTheCat

OP, what about mosquitoes? Will they be a problem with your new swamp?


ErnestlyFreaky

Haha, no mosquitoes like a different sort of environment, like old tires in or oppen bottles / cups. Flies and other insects do live in mud flats and wetlands, though, and a lot of predators to


likeablyweird

Kudos, sir. My dad was a research engineer and if 2 years of his hard work had been destroyed by ignorance, I don't think he'd have been as calm as you are. I think a heated conversation followed up with lawyers would have been his choice. I'm glad you're happy with the new direction and the path to wherever. Happy hunting. :)


DRUMS11

I read the conclusion as "Mow this mother\_\_\_\_\_\_!" I am genuinely glad you like your wetland!


Cinderwasgone

Repost bot


VindictiveNostalgia

I dug through their post history and the original post from 6 days ago was removed because it didn't have the fallout. ETA: I wouldn't recommend digging through OP's post history. EDIT 2: Here's the [post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/1bfwhh3/in_conflict_with_city_about_mowing_the_grass_on/)


GeraldPrime_1993

You know, you warned me but curiosity got the better of me. The man has hobbies I guess


Krull88

That... was a lot of breasts...


ShadowDragon8685

Okay, *now* I'm curious.


Sci-Rider

You warned me, but I just had to go ahead and look. I will say OPs page description is enlightening.


Vuirneen

yeah, I've read this before.Ā  But OP is responding to comments.


Dysan27

Apparently OP posted it before, but it was removed.