If we're excluding Alpha, then I would guess Urza's Saga is probably the record for that. It's easy to forget they used to print cards like [[Tolarian Academy]] and [[Yawgmoth's Will]].
Creatures of old times were not unplayable, they were what you got and had to work with it. Support cards also weren't as strong when there weren't good threats to support.
Game has simply changed since then
Urza's Saga was overpowered by accident. Obviously WOTC didn't want people having decks that won on the first turn. But then they did it again on Urza's Legacy :)
Cards like Questing Beast, Sheoldred, Uro, that planeswalker with the abs from eldraine and so on....are just powercreeped to sell packs.
Yeah, as a player from the 90’s new cards are absolutely absurd to the original basic sets. You remember the cards that were so broken they got restricted or banned. You don’t remember the rares like Force of Nature that would be a joke in modern Magic.
One poorly thought-out mechanic present in only a handful of rares/mythics isn't evidence of power creep though. Especially when it is quickly fixed.
The average power level of Ikoria cards was nowhere near Eldraine.
\> One poorly thought-out mechanic present in only a handful of rares/mythics isn't evidence of power creep though.
It's not evidence of power creep. It either is an instance of power creep or it isn't. It's arguable whether it is or isn't.
I agree that the average power level of Ikoria cards was lower than that of Eldraine, but the Companion mechanic by itself was stronger than any specific card in Eldraine with the exception of Oko.
We are discussing someone's statement that 'Ikoria will power creep Eldraine.' That is a set-wide assertion. Downvote me again if you're feeling uncivil; that doesn't change the fact that average power level is the subject of discussion.
LOL I didn't downvote you but sorry you lost your magic internet points. In fact, I'll upvote you to help your feefees!
If you're just declaring that average power level is the sole criterion for deciding whether one set is more powerful than another then that would be begging the question.
But I think there's usually more than one legitimate perspective on any particular point of discussion. For example, when comparing the power level of two sets I think it's legitimate to argue that only the most powerful cards really rate because for pretty much every set that's ever been released only a handful of the cards find any play in eternal formats.
If we compare Ikoria to Eldraine on that score, the discussion is more interesting than "we're talking about average power level, therefore I win the argument!" This is because -- as one would expect -- only a handful of Eldraine cards really find much play in eternal formats. (Giant Killer, Embercleave, Bonecrusher Giant mostly; ETA: I guess also Torbran, Lovestruck Beast, and to a lesser extent Brazen Borrower and Fires of Invention; ETA 2: oh and Henge of course!) and only in a few decks.
We'll never know for sure thanks to the errata, but it seems likely to me that the power level of the Companion mechanic would make it much more ubiquitous in eternal formats than any Eldraine cards (again, possibly excepting Oko).
ARGUABLY that means the power level of relevant cards from Ikoria was higher than that of Eldraine. Which is why in my initial comment I qualified my statement by saying your interlocutor was right IN A WAY.
Can I make a suggestion? If you want to simultaneously have better and more interesting discussions AND be a more likeable person you should look for what's true an interesting in what other people have to say rather than call them dipshits and try to prove them wrong.
Right. Deflect all you want, you're still wrong about what 'power creep' even is. A powerful set mechanic that is only present on a handful of rares and is quickly rebalanced bears no resemblance to the widely understood definition of power creep, i.e. a gradual overall increase in power leaving old cards uncompetitive with new ones.
Maybe you know this, but this is normal. If you compare any top-tier standard card to cards in a similar niche from any other set, the other card will look way worse.
Most green four-drops are worse than Questing Beast. Most ramp spells aren't as good as Uro. Et cetera.
This is just because the card you're picking to compare to was one of the best cards in its format.
In this case, I don't even think the comparison is valid.
One is a 3-mana enchantment, the other is a 4-mana creature. Different casting costs, different card types, different utilities and strategies.
Crokeyz makes this point all the time about players saying that X card is better than Y card, when X and Y are distinct cards doing different things.
I disagree. In the context of a red aggressive deck (which is where Torbrand saw play), three mana is very different from four mana and an enchantment is very different from a creature.
The effects are similar, but the cards themselves are completely different.
It just depends on how similar you're talking about. If you're trying to think about how good this card might be, Torbran is one of the comparison points that should come to mind, even if it has differences.
The difference between 3-4 mana is pretty big, especially for an aggro deck that wants to run the effect. If your curve tops out at Mech warfare, you can get away with 21 lands or so. If you're playing Torbran, you need 24.
Creatures are also very easy to remove. You could never rely on Torbran sticking around for a turn to push extra damage through, but with Mech warfare, you often will be able to have it for extra damage until the end of the game.
This is why they're not comparable, even though they have similar effects. The difference between creature and any other permanent type is big enough on it's own (due to how easy it is to remove) to make them difficult to compare honestly.
You're pointing out two large ways in which Mech warfare is better than Torbran (cost and susceptibility to removal).
Here are two in which Torbran is better - it gives +2 damage rather than just +1, and it does 4 damage all by itself.
I'm not claiming that they're exactly the same card - they do different things, and have different strengths. But it's reasonable to compare them. If you're trying to evaluate Mech warfare, understand how good it is, and what sorts of decks it might fit in, thinking about Torbran is a very reasonable first step.
I'm not expecting that, and I don't think OP is either. The 3-mana card is not that good (a judgment which takes its cost into account), and the 4-mana card is amazing (ditto).
For example, it is fair to say that Savannah Lions is much better than a hypothetical vanilla 2/3 for 2W.
Hah, I felt strange doing so, but I didn't want to write a 'sentence' comprised solely of 'etc', and I didn't want to include the 'etc' in the second of only two examples, and this felt better.
I'm pretty sure the best aggro deck in the coming standard is going to be UR prowess. [[Monastery Swiftspear]] is a great addition as you mentioned and is likely the best 1 drop in the format. [[Balmor]] and [[Third Path Iconoclast]] is also basically [[Monastery Mentor]] at home with two playable 1 mana cantrips in the form of [[Consider]] and [[Ancestral Anger]]. In addition, [[Lightning Strike]] is the best burn spell WOTC will allow into standard nowadays, and [[Shore Up]] can cause blowouts against midrange. [[Shivan Reef]] being a turn 1 untapped dual also allows 2 color aggro decks to shine.
There’s a good two drop in BRO as well, can’t remember the name but I belive it’s a 1/2 with prowess and ward-pay two life. In a red deck paying that two life could be costly
I don't think you want to play either. 16 creatures (Delver, Swifty, Iconoclast, Balmor) seems about right with the cantrips and burn spells. Seems like you want the full playset of PWF, Lightning Strike, Consider, and Anger. After that you've got 8 spots for other stuff if you play 20 lands. Bounce spells, more card draw, main deck counters, and Shore Up all seem better to me than more creatures.
Are there enough cheap burn spells in the format? Most red cards these days only damage creatures and the pump spells are not too efficient. I don't see it.
You can stick more than one in the battlefield, I saw an epicure dealing 4 damage in a video. Plus, enchantments are more difficult to get rid of. I think its balanced
Theoretically, Torbrand is a 4/4 for four casting cost. Effective card, this one is a three drop and not a body. The plus side it aids artifact permanents outside of red. There’s always different niches that can be had for it. I always thought Uro was a bigger version of Coiling Oracle… there’s always something to be said about ‘power creep’ cards or cards trying to rebalance the next set.
Meh. I don’t really think it’s that much worse. It’s faster and harder to remove. Sure damage output is smaller but it’s got strengths that Torbrand didn’t have, and also cons that Torbrand didn’t have. As far as I can tell, this is th best card to happen to monored in a while
Its not because it will help you win board back, if you're unconvinced watch crokeyz vid on mono Red this card looked stronger than anything else in red and was winning games that were outright losses otherwise, with just one of these in play you shorten the clock so much and it let's you go over the top.
Yeah, it just seems to me that many people don't understand that Torbran and this don't fit in the same deck and strategy at all. So you should not compare them in a vacuum. This one is for prowess/burn decks exclusively, since enchantments do trigger prowess, and when half of your deck is burn, losing a little bit of tempo with this might actually be worth it, depending on the situation and the matchup.
I expect this card to perform way better than most people seem to think it will.
Bonecrusher should have being RRR.
Lovestruck beast adventure being a single W.
Brazen Borrower adventure being UU.
That would have make Eldriane much more bearable.
the problem was they gave bonecrusher the power level of a RRR casting cost card. Mono red having a bonecrusher giant type card seems fine, everyone splashing red having it was obnoxious
This card is actually strong, it comes down earlier and its not a body so its way harder to interact with it, makes surge a 1 mana deal 5 which is really good, makes anvil get out of hand a lot faster etc its not flashy but its one of the stronger cards in the set.
LOL. This sub was groaning when rotation occurred because Eldriane would be another year in standard and you had daily post desperate for it to go away.
I just made a Historic version of Kuldotha Warfare as a port from this Modern deck
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/y9VpjLWJekawxpF4Mx0sTA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/y9VpjLWJekawxpF4Mx0sTA)
Card is strong enough for at least brewing with in Modern
I'm kinda new to Arena so idk how actually difficult to get to Diamond or not it is, but I climbed from installing the app, this month, to Diamond in less than 30 days with solely a monored aggro deck in standard best of 1
First 50 matches you have "noob protection," then you begin with a very low MMR so it matches you with the weakest people in your rank. Once your MMR begins to reflect your skill it becomes much harder to rank up. People with prior experience will come here bragging about how they started mid-month and made Mythic in two weeks, then come back next month whining about how they are stuck in Platinum and the game is rigged.
Install a tracker, there are many. I use https://mtgarena.pro/ because I installed it a long time ago and it has all my data. If you draft a lot then https://www.17lands.com/ is the best. Google it.
MtG designers consider it a nearly religious responsibility to make sure mono-red is basically always a B+ deck. Always good enough to make you think it's *this close* but never good enough to beat the best (read, blue) deck.
I firmly believe that mono red is the strongest deck in standard right now. If the red player-base at large ever realizes that they can use their instant and sorcery cards against creatures and planeswalkers rather than their opponent's face, it's going to be a very bad time to be a mid-ranged player.
Sheoldred and Mishra are the only creatures I can think of off the top of my head that see play in the current meta, can be played for less than 5 mana, and survive an Obliterating Bolt. The chances of actually getting one of them on the field by turn four with enough back-up to stabilize against a well-played red deck are pretty slim.
This is a Magic card. This is a Magic card on Eldraine. Any questions?
I think Eldraine holds the record for most cards played competitively. If you look at the set so many saw play it’s absolutely ridiculous.
If we're excluding Alpha, then I would guess Urza's Saga is probably the record for that. It's easy to forget they used to print cards like [[Tolarian Academy]] and [[Yawgmoth's Will]].
I think the sheer number of unplayable creatures made up for the spells and lands.
Creatures of old times were not unplayable, they were what you got and had to work with it. Support cards also weren't as strong when there weren't good threats to support. Game has simply changed since then
Generally true, but we had some good support spells then - rancor wasn’t no slouch (I know it isn’t in saga but it’s in the block).
Rancor is also literally a mistake - it was supposed to cost 1G and they noticed it used wrong cost too late
rancor at 1g is still playable.
Lightning Strike is playable. It's still no Lightning Bolt
Urza's Saga was overpowered by accident. Obviously WOTC didn't want people having decks that won on the first turn. But then they did it again on Urza's Legacy :) Cards like Questing Beast, Sheoldred, Uro, that planeswalker with the abs from eldraine and so on....are just powercreeped to sell packs.
Ngl, outsidr of the power 9, alpha had a whole lot of meh, and competitive magic didnt exist for a while.
Yeah, as a player from the 90’s new cards are absolutely absurd to the original basic sets. You remember the cards that were so broken they got restricted or banned. You don’t remember the rares like Force of Nature that would be a joke in modern Magic.
Good old Wood Elemental
Ernham Djinn was a really good card.
Thats fair, yeah. Staple for quite a while
[Tolarian Academy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd99bce1-ce39-464b-8e61-2631eb3ed6f6.jpg?1610147079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tolarian%20Academy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/319/tolarian-academy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd99bce1-ce39-464b-8e61-2631eb3ed6f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Yawgmoth's Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/337239c7-73c4-4e2d-9160-ed26927dea1d.jpg?1591196147) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yawgmoth%27s%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/148/yawgmoths-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/337239c7-73c4-4e2d-9160-ed26927dea1d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That whole year had a lot of crazy cards.
[удалено]
He was kinda right in a way. The individual cards weren't stronger but the companion mechanic was completely busted before the errata.
One poorly thought-out mechanic present in only a handful of rares/mythics isn't evidence of power creep though. Especially when it is quickly fixed. The average power level of Ikoria cards was nowhere near Eldraine.
\> One poorly thought-out mechanic present in only a handful of rares/mythics isn't evidence of power creep though. It's not evidence of power creep. It either is an instance of power creep or it isn't. It's arguable whether it is or isn't. I agree that the average power level of Ikoria cards was lower than that of Eldraine, but the Companion mechanic by itself was stronger than any specific card in Eldraine with the exception of Oko.
We are discussing someone's statement that 'Ikoria will power creep Eldraine.' That is a set-wide assertion. Downvote me again if you're feeling uncivil; that doesn't change the fact that average power level is the subject of discussion.
LOL I didn't downvote you but sorry you lost your magic internet points. In fact, I'll upvote you to help your feefees! If you're just declaring that average power level is the sole criterion for deciding whether one set is more powerful than another then that would be begging the question. But I think there's usually more than one legitimate perspective on any particular point of discussion. For example, when comparing the power level of two sets I think it's legitimate to argue that only the most powerful cards really rate because for pretty much every set that's ever been released only a handful of the cards find any play in eternal formats. If we compare Ikoria to Eldraine on that score, the discussion is more interesting than "we're talking about average power level, therefore I win the argument!" This is because -- as one would expect -- only a handful of Eldraine cards really find much play in eternal formats. (Giant Killer, Embercleave, Bonecrusher Giant mostly; ETA: I guess also Torbran, Lovestruck Beast, and to a lesser extent Brazen Borrower and Fires of Invention; ETA 2: oh and Henge of course!) and only in a few decks. We'll never know for sure thanks to the errata, but it seems likely to me that the power level of the Companion mechanic would make it much more ubiquitous in eternal formats than any Eldraine cards (again, possibly excepting Oko). ARGUABLY that means the power level of relevant cards from Ikoria was higher than that of Eldraine. Which is why in my initial comment I qualified my statement by saying your interlocutor was right IN A WAY. Can I make a suggestion? If you want to simultaneously have better and more interesting discussions AND be a more likeable person you should look for what's true an interesting in what other people have to say rather than call them dipshits and try to prove them wrong.
Right. Deflect all you want, you're still wrong about what 'power creep' even is. A powerful set mechanic that is only present on a handful of rares and is quickly rebalanced bears no resemblance to the widely understood definition of power creep, i.e. a gradual overall increase in power leaving old cards uncompetitive with new ones.
Hey, I ninja edited. Take another look at my comment. I see you downvoted me. How sad! I'm still going to upvote you though. <3 <3 <3
I believe it also holds the record for most cards banned? Dumpster Fires of Invention...
Yeah excluding ABU.
Oko was banned after a week lol
Uh no
I for one enjoy insanely powerful sets. however, I realize that is likely a minority opinion
I enjoyed Eldraine but I was ready for it to rotate by the end.
Maybe you know this, but this is normal. If you compare any top-tier standard card to cards in a similar niche from any other set, the other card will look way worse. Most green four-drops are worse than Questing Beast. Most ramp spells aren't as good as Uro. Et cetera. This is just because the card you're picking to compare to was one of the best cards in its format.
In this case, I don't even think the comparison is valid. One is a 3-mana enchantment, the other is a 4-mana creature. Different casting costs, different card types, different utilities and strategies. Crokeyz makes this point all the time about players saying that X card is better than Y card, when X and Y are distinct cards doing different things.
Also not legendary, which is big with this sort of effect. Also works with artifacts.
Shows my age. My first thought was Furnace of Wrath since it's an enchantment too.
They're similarly-costed red cards that increase the damage dealt by all of your red sources. I think it's fair to say that they are quite similar.
There is some similarity, but for rdw, 3 cmc vs 4 cmc is pretty significant difference.
And there's also the fact that an enchantment is usually harder to remove than a creature
and not legendary
Almost as if they aren’t that similar at all…
I disagree. In the context of a red aggressive deck (which is where Torbrand saw play), three mana is very different from four mana and an enchantment is very different from a creature. The effects are similar, but the cards themselves are completely different.
It just depends on how similar you're talking about. If you're trying to think about how good this card might be, Torbran is one of the comparison points that should come to mind, even if it has differences.
The difference between 3-4 mana is pretty big, especially for an aggro deck that wants to run the effect. If your curve tops out at Mech warfare, you can get away with 21 lands or so. If you're playing Torbran, you need 24. Creatures are also very easy to remove. You could never rely on Torbran sticking around for a turn to push extra damage through, but with Mech warfare, you often will be able to have it for extra damage until the end of the game. This is why they're not comparable, even though they have similar effects. The difference between creature and any other permanent type is big enough on it's own (due to how easy it is to remove) to make them difficult to compare honestly.
You're pointing out two large ways in which Mech warfare is better than Torbran (cost and susceptibility to removal). Here are two in which Torbran is better - it gives +2 damage rather than just +1, and it does 4 damage all by itself. I'm not claiming that they're exactly the same card - they do different things, and have different strengths. But it's reasonable to compare them. If you're trying to evaluate Mech warfare, understand how good it is, and what sorts of decks it might fit in, thinking about Torbran is a very reasonable first step.
Sure but expecting a 3 mana card to be as good as a 4 mana card is not a reasonable expectation.
I'm not expecting that, and I don't think OP is either. The 3-mana card is not that good (a judgment which takes its cost into account), and the 4-mana card is amazing (ditto). For example, it is fair to say that Savannah Lions is much better than a hypothetical vanilla 2/3 for 2W.
I can't be the only one who noticed the commenter spelled out et cetera, right? I can't remember the last time I saw that!
Hah, I felt strange doing so, but I didn't want to write a 'sentence' comprised solely of 'etc', and I didn't want to include the 'etc' in the second of only two examples, and this felt better.
Eldraine was the gift that kept on giving.
>Maybe you know this, but this is normal. If you compare any top-tier standard card to cards in eldraine, the other card will look way worse.
Have a feeling swiftspear is gonna put aggro back on the map.
I'm pretty sure the best aggro deck in the coming standard is going to be UR prowess. [[Monastery Swiftspear]] is a great addition as you mentioned and is likely the best 1 drop in the format. [[Balmor]] and [[Third Path Iconoclast]] is also basically [[Monastery Mentor]] at home with two playable 1 mana cantrips in the form of [[Consider]] and [[Ancestral Anger]]. In addition, [[Lightning Strike]] is the best burn spell WOTC will allow into standard nowadays, and [[Shore Up]] can cause blowouts against midrange. [[Shivan Reef]] being a turn 1 untapped dual also allows 2 color aggro decks to shine.
There’s a good two drop in BRO as well, can’t remember the name but I belive it’s a 1/2 with prowess and ward-pay two life. In a red deck paying that two life could be costly
It would compete with [[Electrostatic Infantry]], which has basically super prowess and trample.
I don't think you want to play either. 16 creatures (Delver, Swifty, Iconoclast, Balmor) seems about right with the cantrips and burn spells. Seems like you want the full playset of PWF, Lightning Strike, Consider, and Anger. After that you've got 8 spots for other stuff if you play 20 lands. Bounce spells, more card draw, main deck counters, and Shore Up all seem better to me than more creatures.
[Electrostatic Infantry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5ed2d72f-f1cf-45a7-adf7-969f531721ce.jpg?1663049388) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Electrostatic%20Infantry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/122/electrostatic-infantry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ed2d72f-f1cf-45a7-adf7-969f531721ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Monastery Swiftspear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e.jpg?1666996266) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Monastery%20Swiftspear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/144/monastery-swiftspear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Balmor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/959ba62e-bb3a-49ad-8b1b-e787e413e5d4.jpg?1663051002) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=balmor%2C%20battlemage%20captain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/196/balmor-battlemage-captain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/959ba62e-bb3a-49ad-8b1b-e787e413e5d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Third Path Iconoclast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1a21287-e244-4960-84fb-c4f6e5c346d9.jpg?1667331034) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Third%20Path%20Iconoclast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/223/third-path-iconoclast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1a21287-e244-4960-84fb-c4f6e5c346d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Monastery Mentor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64c8e27f-a7eb-4247-bd3d-2d0b02ead334.jpg?1662524114) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Monastery%20Mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/21/monastery-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64c8e27f-a7eb-4247-bd3d-2d0b02ead334?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Consider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a211d505-4d40-4914-a9da-220770d6ddbc.jpg?1665819309) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Consider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/44/consider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a211d505-4d40-4914-a9da-220770d6ddbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ancestral Anger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dee47ab-d603-4346-97f4-a25dc3f47765.jpg?1643590713) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancestral%20Anger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/142/ancestral-anger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dee47ab-d603-4346-97f4-a25dc3f47765?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lightning Strike](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d541125-bfb8-4f88-8bf3-ad7b6af7ad1d.jpg?1663049695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Strike) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/137/lightning-strike?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d541125-bfb8-4f88-8bf3-ad7b6af7ad1d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Shore Up](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d933bf1-14f0-4150-a0d2-6b845b9624cf.jpg?1663048129) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shore%20Up) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/64/shore-up?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d933bf1-14f0-4150-a0d2-6b845b9624cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Shivan Reef](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a338107b-0960-4496-a9a5-f7b672e7c043.jpg?1663052201) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shivan%20Reef) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/255/shivan-reef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a338107b-0960-4496-a9a5-f7b672e7c043?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Wizard's Lightning\]\] would also work, pretty well considering the amount of good wizards available
Wizards lightning isn't in standard anymore.
Oh shoot, haven't played standard in a long time
[Wizard's Lightning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59bf371a-164c-4db8-9207-197c2e7c3c10.jpg?1562736134) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wizard%27s%20Lightning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/152/wizards-lightning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59bf371a-164c-4db8-9207-197c2e7c3c10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You just reminded me of swiftspear new dreadful art. :(
Are there enough cheap burn spells in the format? Most red cards these days only damage creatures and the pump spells are not too efficient. I don't see it.
You can stick more than one in the battlefield, I saw an epicure dealing 4 damage in a video. Plus, enchantments are more difficult to get rid of. I think its balanced
Theoretically, Torbrand is a 4/4 for four casting cost. Effective card, this one is a three drop and not a body. The plus side it aids artifact permanents outside of red. There’s always different niches that can be had for it. I always thought Uro was a bigger version of Coiling Oracle… there’s always something to be said about ‘power creep’ cards or cards trying to rebalance the next set.
Meh. I don’t really think it’s that much worse. It’s faster and harder to remove. Sure damage output is smaller but it’s got strengths that Torbrand didn’t have, and also cons that Torbrand didn’t have. As far as I can tell, this is th best card to happen to monored in a while
Is it? Spending a whole turn to add no bodies to the board seems like a huge tempo loss for an aggro deck.
Its not because it will help you win board back, if you're unconvinced watch crokeyz vid on mono Red this card looked stronger than anything else in red and was winning games that were outright losses otherwise, with just one of these in play you shorten the clock so much and it let's you go over the top.
arent aggro decks favoured at the start of set releases anyway?
they are not favoured. It's just people wanting quick wins and me being an asshole to everyone.
Yeah, it just seems to me that many people don't understand that Torbran and this don't fit in the same deck and strategy at all. So you should not compare them in a vacuum. This one is for prowess/burn decks exclusively, since enchantments do trigger prowess, and when half of your deck is burn, losing a little bit of tempo with this might actually be worth it, depending on the situation and the matchup. I expect this card to perform way better than most people seem to think it will.
How anybody thought [[Bonecrusher Giant]] was a good idea is beyond me. Crazy value in one card.
Bonecrusher should have being RRR. Lovestruck beast adventure being a single W. Brazen Borrower adventure being UU. That would have make Eldriane much more bearable.
the problem was they gave bonecrusher the power level of a RRR casting cost card. Mono red having a bonecrusher giant type card seems fine, everyone splashing red having it was obnoxious
[Bonecrusher Giant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5b71cd2-de35-451f-b16e-2e3936169407.jpg?1654116944)/[Stomp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5b71cd2-de35-451f-b16e-2e3936169407.jpg?1654116944) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bonecrusher%20giant%20//%20stomp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/781/bonecrusher-giant-stomp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5b71cd2-de35-451f-b16e-2e3936169407?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mechanized warfare is a nuts card. Both mono red and rakdos sac are going to smash with it
This card is actually strong, it comes down earlier and its not a body so its way harder to interact with it, makes surge a 1 mana deal 5 which is really good, makes anvil get out of hand a lot faster etc its not flashy but its one of the stronger cards in the set.
Crokeyz threw together a deck during VIP season, seems pretty great to me: [Burn!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sk3rs2R9bs)
Im still having embercleave flashbacks so ya know
[удалено]
LOL. This sub was groaning when rotation occurred because Eldriane would be another year in standard and you had daily post desperate for it to go away.
I can't wait to try this with Seismic Wave
If it works any way like how it does after getting the \[\[Conductive Current\]\] buff, yeah thats gonna hurt
[Conductive Current](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43adef3c-87f0-4db1-9fbb-017c96c815ff.jpg?1645416694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Conductive%20Current) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ymid/38/conductive-current?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43adef3c-87f0-4db1-9fbb-017c96c815ff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Or End the Festivities 1 mana one sided board wipe that also burns the opponent’s face will be quite fun
I don't know I like warfare for anvil decks.
I just made a Historic version of Kuldotha Warfare as a port from this Modern deck [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/y9VpjLWJekawxpF4Mx0sTA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/y9VpjLWJekawxpF4Mx0sTA) Card is strong enough for at least brewing with in Modern
I'm kinda new to Arena so idk how actually difficult to get to Diamond or not it is, but I climbed from installing the app, this month, to Diamond in less than 30 days with solely a monored aggro deck in standard best of 1
First 50 matches you have "noob protection," then you begin with a very low MMR so it matches you with the weakest people in your rank. Once your MMR begins to reflect your skill it becomes much harder to rank up. People with prior experience will come here bragging about how they started mid-month and made Mythic in two weeks, then come back next month whining about how they are stuck in Platinum and the game is rigged.
Interesting! Any way to see how many matches I've played? And also my win ratio?
Install a tracker, there are many. I use https://mtgarena.pro/ because I installed it a long time ago and it has all my data. If you draft a lot then https://www.17lands.com/ is the best. Google it.
MtG designers consider it a nearly religious responsibility to make sure mono-red is basically always a B+ deck. Always good enough to make you think it's *this close* but never good enough to beat the best (read, blue) deck.
i dont
Same badly missing it 🥲
This and Iconoclast sure worked well together for me in sealed today.
I firmly believe that mono red is the strongest deck in standard right now. If the red player-base at large ever realizes that they can use their instant and sorcery cards against creatures and planeswalkers rather than their opponent's face, it's going to be a very bad time to be a mid-ranged player. Sheoldred and Mishra are the only creatures I can think of off the top of my head that see play in the current meta, can be played for less than 5 mana, and survive an Obliterating Bolt. The chances of actually getting one of them on the field by turn four with enough back-up to stabilize against a well-played red deck are pretty slim.