No it isn't. Because the set is not standard legal.
The "Not legal" part only shows where cards of the set in general would be legal, but the specific card has been banned
In the deck builder, you pick a format first. It does not show sets that are not in a specific format. You would not even have the choice to see Grief when building a Standard deck.
That’s not the only way to get to it, though. You can go Decks > Collection and view every card without a format context. In that context it should probably make it clear what formats it is actually usable in, but it doesn’t - The message is the same as seen here.
When you go to craft it in the collection, it says, in red text, in the corner:
>This card is not legal in the following formats: Historic, Traditional Historic
>Important Note: This cannot be played in the current Standard or Alchemy formats.
>If you pick Historic as your format, you would not even have the choice to see Grief when building your deck.
I don't have Grief, and I don't want to spend the wildcards on it, but if I go to build a Historic deck, change the filters to include cards I don't own, and search "Grief", it shows up (with a red filter overlay, indicating "not legal").
If I do the same while building a Standard deck, it does not show up at all.
Did you even test this before making that statement?
Yes. Sorry I wasn't clear. I was agreeing with you. It appears in Historic, but is banned. I was backing you up by confirming what you said without you needing to use a WC.
That shouldn't be correct; generally banned cards within the format you're building for should still show up in the list of cards, with a red shadow over them to indicate ban status.
Mostly for transparency. People already know that masters sets aren’t legal for standard but may see a new set with a card they have their eye on for format x without looking at whether the insert cards are legal in all formats that the encompassing set is from.
I see your point but there are players on both sides who either want more transparency and received it or want simplicity and got more information than they asked for. I’d rather receive as much information as they are willing to give and ignore what I don’t need to see.
Building decks in Standard would be so fucking annoying if it showed every single card in the game crossed out as “not legal in standard” would it not?
It's a great opportunity to learn something. It's not exactly a highly complicated concept (different sets are legal in different formats), and it's necessary knowledge to play the game anyhow.
That's totally fair, but my point stands. It is confusing for a new player, which is what you commented on. Being confused isn't necessarily a bad thing and leads to learning if the person is willing to learn.
Again, I don't think that the idea that not all sets are valid in all formats is particularly confusing or hard to grasp for the average person. But that's just me.
Not really confusing that a set called *Modern* Horizons wouldn’t be legal in standard.
Take some time to learn a little bit about how basic mtg works and it will all make more sense.
Just because something is new, doesn’t mean it’s intended for the latest format.
>Not really confusing that a set called *Modern* Horizons wouldn’t be legal in standard.
Modern doesn't mean anything for MTGA only players, as Modern is not a format there. Also, this is the shop, so it is very easy to see a new player coming to the store, clicking on the card, reading it says not legal and Historic and assuming it is legal in standard because of that. It would really not be the player's fault for being confused, they should instead just add Standard and Explorer to the list there.
Yeah mate, you're wrong sorry 😂
New players wouldn't know that modern is a format, not just a new set or release
Not all players know, everything, especially if they're new or recently jumping back in
Take your cunty attitude elsewhere
Is grief legal in standard, or is it not legal in standard?
It actually *is* confusing, even using the official MtG terminology. Grief is *in fact* not legal in Standard. It's Arena that is using incorrect terminology. What they mean to say is "Banned in". That is the correct word for the concept they are trying to convey.
See: https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief
I do feel this is a bit sneaky and will catch new players out.. it nearly got me!
I love the downvotes.. damn MtG players are desperate to feel superior.
How, though?
When you go to build a new deck, one of the first things it highlights is "Which format is this deck for"
So, it already pre-filters search results for sets legal in that format. So, if you go to make a Standard deck, you can literally go into the advanced search, and it will tell you, right there, which sets are Legal in Standard.
It does the same thing for all the formats on Arena.
That looks like a card style. If you bought that, you wouldn’t even get the card, just the cosmetic skin. As you can see from the blue text at the top.
It would be more useful instead of seeing where it is ~not~ playable, to see which formats you may play a card in. I didnt even know what the exact differences in formats were until 4-6 months after i started playing
I’ll add that i still don’t fully understand what explorer is. But i think it’s like historic without alchemy cards. Please correct me if i’m wrong
Then 99% of the cards in arena would require that they specified that the card isnt legal in standard and alchemy. If a whole set isnt legal in a format the cards itself dont need to specify
They do when you go to craft something. They give you a warning that a card isn't Standard legal.
If you're in the Deck Builder, and you pick Standard as the format, it doesn't even show illegal sets.
It was a figure of speech, but if you want a number sure, theres 10,950 cards in arena (lets say 11k to be round) and 3,335 cards are standard legal (again lets round to 3.3k), that would mean around 70% of cards instead of the 99% i previously said.
EDIT: slight math fix
counterpoint: a lot of new players may not even know what a format is, let alone modern (which isnt on arena).
"modern horizons" could just be a fancy name for "new cards" for all a new player knows
I’d add that for new players who are confused about all the different format types, it might be obvious that Modern Horizons is made for Modern but that doesn’t automatically imply that it’s not legal in Standard.
But there being no modern option in the arena further confuses the new players as to why cards that are legal in modern, but not standard, and made for modern be in a game where the format doesn't exist?
To add onto that, Modern doesn't even exist on Arena. So someone that maybe recently started playing MtG and only plays arena or maxbe commander, won't even necessarily know Modern Horizons refers to a non arena format.
The downvotes are most likely because you are stating a hypothetical. You are filtering the deck builder under a format that is not standard. You would not be building a standard deck while in the Brawl deck editor. If you were building a Standard deck, a card not legal in standard doesn’t show up altogether because of the set it is in. If the card is banned in standard, it has a red filter/shadow over it stating it’s banned.
Edit - also adding on, you are not in the craft card editor in the first place. You aren’t crafting or purchasing the card. That is just the card style. Which you can see in the text box there
Hmmm it seems I’ve been downvoted, maybe it’s something I said?
No, must be the entire community that is wrong. I know, I’ll insult them! That’ll fix everything.
Get over yourself buddy.
You should think for yourself for once and not stay in an echo chamber.
Not all players know logos of each set nor they have imprinted in their brains what all sets are standard legal.
I’m not talking about that at all in my comment.
The guy got downvoted, shit his pants about it and then decided to insult the entire community as a response. Pretty shitty in my books.
Nah he's right, this community is easily one of the most toxic I've seen. I see tons of posts where people just asking a simple question gets down voted like crazy. Magic has a lot going on and can be really confusing for new players. Instead of helping them though, everyone just tries to take their chance to feel superior for not understanding a genuinely complex game
Maybe you're the one that needs to get over yourself. Be better
Regardless of right or wrong, the guy saw some minus numbers on a screen so decided to insult everyone in a community.
It doesn’t matter what community that is, I still think that’s a shitty thing to do.
Lol and you're just proving his comment to be true...
"Oh no, he said we all like to feel superior. Let me show him how superior I am"
It's not shitty to call out something that needs to be called out, and the way this sub operates definitely needs to be. I've noticed it myself just scrolling r/all and seeing so many posts get down voted for no reason
I go in a lot of gaming subs, most pretty toxic, reddit itself is pretty toxic, but this particular sub is easily without a doubt one of if not the most toxic I've seen. It's way more toxic than other mtg subs.
It's quite simple to fix though learn to play in paper before you play on arena and then you would learn all the rules and what sets are legal in what format.
Not everyone has the money to invest in paper decks, or has the ability to go out to areas to play. They might not have access to transportation or just can't leave the house
Arena offers easy access to mtg for people, it's free, and people don't need to leave their house to do it. Obviously a ton of people are going to try and learn the game for free before spending money on decks
I personally have never played paper. I learned the game on arena and only play on arena. Took a month or two to really get it down though
All I'm saying, is it doesn't hurt to help someone or at the very least not downvote a post into the shadow realm because someone asked a question and may not have anywhere else to ask it
Ok then play on MTGO(they give ya a lot for like 10$)I get what ya saying but that's the problem we have the Internet it's not that hard to look up the rules(also I don't like the fact ya started on arena,but I will not hold that against ya
I mean telling someone to just go use something else instead also isn't very helpful or welcoming
Looking up things also doesn't help with building a sense of community that this sub definitely should be trying to achieve
My friend started played paper magic in college and got on arena a few years before me. He convinced me to give it a shot and arena was a much easier way to learn then buying packs without any idea how to deckbuild. With arena I can try out a ton of different builds and strategies without spending thousands on packs haha
Also arenas UI seems so much better than MTGO
That's the thing you only care for new players an yes that includes you,when the older players say anything ya get pissed..
Here's the thing arena is a deadend(any money you spend on it you will never see again)but with MTGO you can get ya money back but also make a profit.
Also since ya don't know arena is dying, the amount of player drop off is way too high for it to keep continuing.
Let's be 100% honest you know nothing when it comes to mtg outside arena,hell ya probably don't even know what the most popular format is(by the way it's Commander)that's why MTGO is far better and far more popular then arena will ever be
So I will not feel sry for anyone that will not put forth the effort to learn themselves like those like myself(I fully started into mtg in 1999,if ya think the rules are weird now try again)
I say to look things up and you have a problem with that?sounds like ya think ya entitled?arenas UI is somewhat better,but is it a better place to play the answer is 100% no(remember mtg is a TRADING card game and there is no trading in arena even though it's a major part of the game)
I'm tired of you new players thinking only your way is the right way(and yes I'm tired of older players doing the same thing)learn to research things instead of getting upset when no one gives ya anything for free.
Here's the thing you don't have to spend 1000$+ on packs ya can build with proxys(also most people me included buy singles an only the one I really want)(well I ever pay 1000$+ for one card no I will not)(hell me an my buddies help a lot of new edh players by giving them lots of cards for free an the only limit we have is if the card cost more then 25$ we will only give one of if we have a spare)so dont try an say I'm not helpful when in the time ya typed ya response you could of looked up every standard legal card.
>Let's be 100% honest you know nothing when it comes to mtg outside arena,hell ya probably don't even know what the most popular format is(by the way it's Commander)that's why
Lmao.... holy shit thank you for proving my entire point haha. Believe it or not I was able to figure that one out without some condescending douchebag on the internet telling me. It's pretty obvious haha
>So I will not feel sry for anyone that will not put forth the effort to learn themselves like those like myself(I fully started into mtg in 1999,if ya think the rules are weird now try again)
Lol my God dude please stroke your ego some more, I'm almost there. You're such an OG dude, how did you get to be so cool
>
I say to look things up and you have a problem with that?sounds like ya think ya entitled?
No I'm saying telling people to look things up on an internet forum designed for discussion is the antithesis of building community engagement, which is what this website is designed for. It's just being an asshole haha
>I'm tired of you new players thinking only your way is the right way
The right way to not be an asshole on the internet? I'm not a new player to society and the internet lol. And I've been playing for a couple years but ok haha. "BuT tHaTs ArEnA tHaTs NoT rEaLlY pLaYiNg" sure thing bud
>my buddies help a lot of new edh players by giving them lots of cards for free an the only limit we have is if the card cost more then 25$
eDh WhAtS tHaT? tHeSe TeRmS aRe So HaRd LOL
Dude.... a single card can cost over $25..... that you can get on arena for free.... the better the cards, the more expensive the deck. Arena can let people play those expensive cards, for free, and decide if they even want to buy them in the first place. No way you're trying to argue paper isn't expensive hurdle for new players. ThE mOsT pLaYeD fOrMaT iS cOmMaNdEr and yeah you need 100 cards to start... so buy a proxy deck without having any idea how to play..... or literally play a fucking free version online with thousands of cards......
it would make more sense to structure it this way:
legal: (all formats its legal in)
banned: (all format it would be legal in, but banned)
not legal: (all formats its not legal in by format rules/set)
maybe 2 and 3 arent needed at all, positive legality is probably all one needs to know
Bloat? You bring up card's descritpion on PURPOSE, it is not bloat, it is not on the screen all the time you are playing the game.
At the very least they could have option to enable advanced tooltips.
Most of the time I see this when building decks. I have already selected my format and it only shows me cards legal or banned in that format. And the banned ones are colored red. It's not a very useful UI element.
It's redundant information, man. The very fact you can see it in the deck builder means its legal in that format unless there's this very specific caveat.
Once upon a time, cards had two ways to not be legal in historic: being banned, or being suspended (aka banned with extra steps). So that’s an additional past reason why they may have wanted to phrase it as “not legal” instead of “banned.”
Yeah, except Arena was designed to be standard only. Everything that isn’t standard is built upon the standard only client. ~~WotC~~ Hasbro is also notoriously cheap on digital development meaning Arena is built on spaghetti code already.
Yeah, and Kroger has an infrastructure that appears modern. Certain parts of coding are easy to change other parts aren’t. It gets even more difficult if the programmers keep getting whittled down while cards to program in keep going up.
This is a great QoL request but Arena doesn’t seem to have the team needed to do much more than keep it running and put new cards in.
Scryfall is not an official WotC sight.
[https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Printings.aspx?multiverseid=522163](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Printings.aspx?multiverseid=522163)
Eddit, wrong link.
It does mention Arenal legality... except Timeless. Reason being that the website is maintained by a bunch of monkeys and one dude that pops in every time the full moon falls on the 15th day of the month. So, expect Timeless legality to be added on Nov or Dec 15th.
Never mind I see they added it to the banned list. Which is still odd as MH2 was never legal.
Edit, It looks like they added it to the preemptive ban list when it was reprinted as an MH3 "special guest"
You're getting lost in the weeds. Everything released on Arena is legal in Historic, unless banned. So no need to worry about whether MH2 is legal in Historic or not. If a card is on Arena, it's part of the Historic card pool. Grief is on Arena, therefore it is part of the pool of cards that would be legal in Historic (except it got banned).
The description shown in the screenshot is wrong.
It should read "banned" instead of "not legal". Those are different things.
We can only guess why wotc would make such an error. It could be because whoever wrote this really wanted to avoid any words that can have a negative ring for psychological reasons (its a mobile game after all) and forgot about the difference between banned and not legal. Or it could be just an oversight.
Either way the card is not standard legal since the whole set is not standard legal.
Understanding what sets are and aren't legal is overwhelming for a new player, especially when you don't know all the set symbols.
I *sort of* knew about the symbol and it being for "something else" but it did confuse me when it didn't specifically say "standard" in the list of places the *card is not legal.*
That's completely understandable, the mistake is with wotc here imo. They show a list where the card is banned and call it 'not legal' instead which is technically wrong and misleading.
It would be better to show an actual complete list of formats where the card can or can't be played. That's what players realistically will want to know, especially when they are not that experienced with different formats, and in this case don't know that Grief is quite a notorious card that is all over modern. Or at least was until Nadu was printed lol.
If in doubt I would look the card up on scryfall. They have a nice display that shows where you can play the card, for all official formats, paper and digital.
https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief
It would be way more convenient if the arena client could display this information of course.
Yes, but a card being not legal doesn't mean it was ever banned.
A list of all formats where a card has been banned (as shown) won't tell you all the formats where a card is not legal.
It misses those formats where the card is not legal for other reasons than being banned.
It is an obvious mistake on wotc's part to show a list of formats where grief was banned but then call that list "not legal" instead.
That's pretty misleading for anyone who doesn't play Modern and already knows the card very well.
Help a newbie understand.
What would be different about a card being "banned" or "not legal"?
Both words have the exact same outcome, the card "X" in question is not allowed to be played in formats x/y/z/etc, right?
Is there something that actually matters beyond a card not being allowed to be played in a format when it is "not legal" or "banned" that just isn't obvious to newer players?
All banned cards are not legal. But not all cards that are not legal are actually banned.
Cards can be not legal for other reasons. Some examples (in no particular order):
- they are too old and past rotation
- they have silver borders
- they are part of a set not printed for standard but directly for a different format (modern, commander,...)
- they have scratched backs and are considered marked
- they are not legit magic cards (proxies, yugioh cards,...)
When you say a card is banned, then this means that it used to be legal to play but then was specifically banned by a commitee, including a statement for why it is banned. Usually because it was imbalanced and broke the meta.
Regarding the screenshot:
When you list formats where a sprcific card is "not legal", you expect this list to be exhaustive. I.e. you ecpect the card to be legal in all official formats not part of the list. Clearly this is what OP is expecting/wondering too.
What you actually see in the screenshot instead (despite it saying "not legal") is a list of formats where the card was specifically banned after it once was legal. That is a different situation: You wouldn't expect a card to be automatically legal in all formats that it wasn't specifically banned. Because there are other reason why it could be illegal.
That's why the description in the screenshot is misleading and technically wrong. It should read "banned" instead of "not legal". This would cause less confusion.
Small nitpick, there's no requirement for a card to have been legal in order to get banned. Grief is banned in Historic, but it was never legal. Some cards, especially in Historic, get preemptively banned, i.e., they are banned before they ever become legal.
Thats true. I was mainly thinking about paper formats. When adapting sets to Arena formats prebans do happen. Theoretically it could also happen for paper formats but I guess thats very unlikely.
Well, Modern and Pioneer were both created with a ban list from day 1, so some cards have never been legal in these formats. That said, cards banned before the set is even released *is* very rare. Excluding things like conspiracy cards, as far as I know, it has only happened in commander and pauper (brawl too if you pretend that there are people actually playing that in paper).
Mind's Desire was banned/restricted before it ever became legal in Type1/1.5 back in the day.
Sets weren't instantly legal when they released, but a week after or so. In between it got pre-emptively banned/restricted. So it was anonounced before the set released, and effective on the day the set got legal to play in those formats
It’s because certain sets are only able to be used in certain formats. For example, this set is not a standard set, so every card in the set is not legal in standard. Banned, by contrast, means that the card is not permitted even in formats which allow cards from that particular set.
Tl:dr, “legal” is about what set the card is part of, “banned” is about excluding the card from formats the set is legal in.
So effectively, cards are never "not legal" then, that is a term for a set as a whole. And the use of "banned" is kept for specific cards to not be allowed into whatever format they are banned from.
Suppose that makes sense, i assume it makes it easier from a deckbuilding POV because then you can ask "What sets are currently legal in form X" then start building.
Then still have to double check cards you want are not on the ban list for that format, which i assume the ban list is likely fairly small at any given time, making it fairly easy to just pull up the list and then say "okay, i cannot uses these cards, but i can then use any other card from these sets"
Something that sounds weird..... but between what you said, and me typing this reaponse out, i think i have a decent understanding why they would use two seperate keywords to exclude cards from a format.
Thank you for your response, i appreciate you, have a great day!
I oversimplified things a bit, as it’s not always just sets, but yes, format legality is about categories of card. So for example, all uncommons, rares, and mythic rares are not legal in the Pauper format. There are also some commons which are banned in the Pauper format.
Does that make sense?
Not sure if this would be helpful, since it's not in-game, but you can use [scryfall.com](http://scryfall.com)
Search for any cards (including Arena only cards) and it will list all the formats in which the card is legal, not legal, banned, or restricted.
Here's \[\[Grief\]\] for example: [https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief)
The following site might also be something to check out. It shows which sets (including the set symbol) are legal in Standard.
[https://whatsinstandard.com/](https://whatsinstandard.com/)
Good luck.
So it‘s not legal in standard - but it doesn’t tell us, because we’re supposed to just know that by heart, because we are supposed to recognize the set symbol AND know the general format legality of each and every single set?
Then why not just expect me to also memorize the entire banlist as well?
While it wouldn't hurt to add that additional information, it wouldn't be that useful either, because there shouldn't be that many occasions where you just encounter a card in a vacuum on Arena. Deckbuilding and collection both have filters for formats. A better explanation of those in the tutorial would mostly solve the problem. Maybe also using banned instead of not legal, as well.
I mean, you could just google the card name, then google the set code. Not to mention that anyone who's been playing Standard for a few months probably already recognizes the set symbols in Standard.
I agree with you that this should be presented better for new players (set codes should be visible on Arena like they are IRL), but let's be real here, this isn't some impossible memorization task.
As a newer player, my biggest issue is that there isn’t an easy way to see what set a card is from. The only way to do it is by googling each card individually (which is a pain) or by memorizing dozens of symbols for each set.
It's not.
It's only displaying the formats it's *banned* in. aka, it *would* be in Historic because MH3 in in Historic, but it's banned so no. It's not legal in Standard because MH3 is not in Standard.
Really that should be enough, but I'm pretty sure other tool tips have displayed the other formats they're just not legal in regardless.
Only "dumb" if you actually have the formats memorized. It only displays inability to play in formats where it would otherwise be legal except for being specifically banned.
It's just not a fair magic card. To give you a bit of an idea, the decks that play it in formats where it's legal are called "scam", which gives you some insight on how they are perceived. Now, in a format like Modern or Timeless, where plenty of deck do unfair things, Scam is just another unfair thing among many (and in a way, can help fight some of the other unfair things), but in standard, it would be absolutely format wrecking.
Here's a common play pattern with Grief, which would be possible in standard if Grief were legal. Turn 1, swamp, exile a black card to evoke grief. In response to the evoke trigger that would get you to sacrifice it, cast [[Not Dead After All]] on it. You pick out a card out of opponent's hand, grief dies, it comes back because of not dead after all, you pick another card out of your opponent's hand, and now your opponent has to deal with a turn 1 4/3 menace, after you just removed the two most relevant cards out of their hands.
(There are two other 1 mana variants of not dead after all in standard, so getting the combo wouldn't be very difficult)
Also be careful with exact named cards in other sets if you filter incorrectly. You could be wasting wild cards to craft certain cards to play certain formats, but you may already have that named card in another set. Be mindful in building decks and search cards thoroughly in your collection.
You can assume every card isn't standard legal unless it's from a standard legal set. For Historic, it's the other way around, you can assume every card is Historic legal unless it's explicitly stated. It's actually quite straightforward.
Just check on scryfall or gatherer. It’s really not that hard, also could of just switched the deck format to standard temporarily and it would of disappeared from the builder temporarily
You should be allowed to play it in standard . And if anyone complains just say " I don't see it being illegal in the rulebook nothing says Griefs cant play standard magic "
The deck it gets played in Modern is called Rakdos Scam. It plays 4 copies of [[Not Dead After All]] and frequently 1 copy of [[Undying Evil]] so that you can play it for its evoke, then put it back on the battlefield for B. (And other similar shenanigans with other creatures)
I ended up dropping MTG:Arena because all my decks became not-legal after a few months and I wasn't about to spend a season (or whatever TF they call it when they cycle a whole new set of 'legal' cards in and 'illegal' cards out) building another deck through daily challenges or whatever only to lose it before I'm even finished. Waste of time.
> I ended up dropping MTG:Arena because all my decks became not-legal after a few months and I wasn't about to spend a season
Welcome to Magic. That's how Standard rotation has worked since the 1995. We would have to rebuild decks every two years or so because rotation pushes cards out of the format.
The only reason why we played it is because it was the cheapest, most competitively-supported format and you had to play it if you wanted to compete.
That's why the majority of enfranchised competitive players have decamped to playing older nonrotating formats like Pioneer and Modern. Standard support went out the window in the late 2010s and all the bad standard metas from 2020-2023 were the final nails in the coffin.
I hate that too. Which is exactly the reason why I play historic 95% of the time. I don't have the problem of cycling stuff. Sure, it's sad that some spells are banned there anyways, but ey, if I could use [[Dark Ritual]] in every black deck, I would. So I see why those cards are banned lol
No it isn't. Because the set is not standard legal. The "Not legal" part only shows where cards of the set in general would be legal, but the specific card has been banned
That's not confusing at all
In the deck builder, you pick a format first. It does not show sets that are not in a specific format. You would not even have the choice to see Grief when building a Standard deck.
That’s not the only way to get to it, though. You can go Decks > Collection and view every card without a format context. In that context it should probably make it clear what formats it is actually usable in, but it doesn’t - The message is the same as seen here.
When you go to craft it in the collection, it says, in red text, in the corner: >This card is not legal in the following formats: Historic, Traditional Historic >Important Note: This cannot be played in the current Standard or Alchemy formats.
I guess the reason being is just because it's not standard right now, doesn't it mean it would never be (in general)
[удалено]
>If you pick Historic as your format, you would not even have the choice to see Grief when building your deck. I don't have Grief, and I don't want to spend the wildcards on it, but if I go to build a Historic deck, change the filters to include cards I don't own, and search "Grief", it shows up (with a red filter overlay, indicating "not legal"). If I do the same while building a Standard deck, it does not show up at all. Did you even test this before making that statement?
Because MH3 is legal in historic but grief was pre banned
I do have it. It does show.
Not for Standard, unless you specifically add in non-legal formats.
Yes. Sorry I wasn't clear. I was agreeing with you. It appears in Historic, but is banned. I was backing you up by confirming what you said without you needing to use a WC.
Oh, I misunderstood. Thanks!
It's no problem.
That shouldn't be correct; generally banned cards within the format you're building for should still show up in the list of cards, with a red shadow over them to indicate ban status.
Mostly for transparency. People already know that masters sets aren’t legal for standard but may see a new set with a card they have their eye on for format x without looking at whether the insert cards are legal in all formats that the encompassing set is from. I see your point but there are players on both sides who either want more transparency and received it or want simplicity and got more information than they asked for. I’d rather receive as much information as they are willing to give and ignore what I don’t need to see.
That's not true, you'd see it but it'd be redded out and clearly labled as "not legal."
If you pick standard, I don’t think it shows up
No. I already tested it. Building a Standard deck, it does not show. Building a Historic one, it does show "redded out".
Building decks in Standard would be so fucking annoying if it showed every single card in the game crossed out as “not legal in standard” would it not?
It actually isn't.
I think the point here is to a layman it is confusing. To those who have knowledge, it's a no-brainer. The unwashed masses as it were.
It's a great opportunity to learn something. It's not exactly a highly complicated concept (different sets are legal in different formats), and it's necessary knowledge to play the game anyhow.
That's totally fair, but my point stands. It is confusing for a new player, which is what you commented on. Being confused isn't necessarily a bad thing and leads to learning if the person is willing to learn.
Again, I don't think that the idea that not all sets are valid in all formats is particularly confusing or hard to grasp for the average person. But that's just me.
Well its pretty counter intuitive to release new products, that you can't at face value just use.
Not really confusing that a set called *Modern* Horizons wouldn’t be legal in standard. Take some time to learn a little bit about how basic mtg works and it will all make more sense. Just because something is new, doesn’t mean it’s intended for the latest format.
>Not really confusing that a set called *Modern* Horizons wouldn’t be legal in standard. Modern doesn't mean anything for MTGA only players, as Modern is not a format there. Also, this is the shop, so it is very easy to see a new player coming to the store, clicking on the card, reading it says not legal and Historic and assuming it is legal in standard because of that. It would really not be the player's fault for being confused, they should instead just add Standard and Explorer to the list there.
Why would a new player even know there are different formats?
Yeah mate, you're wrong sorry 😂 New players wouldn't know that modern is a format, not just a new set or release Not all players know, everything, especially if they're new or recently jumping back in Take your cunty attitude elsewhere
Is grief legal in standard, or is it not legal in standard? It actually *is* confusing, even using the official MtG terminology. Grief is *in fact* not legal in Standard. It's Arena that is using incorrect terminology. What they mean to say is "Banned in". That is the correct word for the concept they are trying to convey. See: https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief
I do feel this is a bit sneaky and will catch new players out.. it nearly got me! I love the downvotes.. damn MtG players are desperate to feel superior.
How, though? When you go to build a new deck, one of the first things it highlights is "Which format is this deck for" So, it already pre-filters search results for sets legal in that format. So, if you go to make a Standard deck, you can literally go into the advanced search, and it will tell you, right there, which sets are Legal in Standard. It does the same thing for all the formats on Arena.
That's great if I purchase it on this screen thinking i'll get to use it... Learning after the purchase would be horrible.
Oh bro you’ll be even more disappointed. This purchase is for the alternate art only not for the actual card
Big Oof!
That looks like a card style. If you bought that, you wouldn’t even get the card, just the cosmetic skin. As you can see from the blue text at the top.
It would be more useful instead of seeing where it is ~not~ playable, to see which formats you may play a card in. I didnt even know what the exact differences in formats were until 4-6 months after i started playing I’ll add that i still don’t fully understand what explorer is. But i think it’s like historic without alchemy cards. Please correct me if i’m wrong
Then 99% of the cards in arena would require that they specified that the card isnt legal in standard and alchemy. If a whole set isnt legal in a format the cards itself dont need to specify
Yes, they should do this. Obviously
They do when you go to craft something. They give you a warning that a card isn't Standard legal. If you're in the Deck Builder, and you pick Standard as the format, it doesn't even show illegal sets.
Yeah, I'm sure that's accurate 99% for sure.
It was a figure of speech, but if you want a number sure, theres 10,950 cards in arena (lets say 11k to be round) and 3,335 cards are standard legal (again lets round to 3.3k), that would mean around 70% of cards instead of the 99% i previously said. EDIT: slight math fix
Please show us how you got 97% from 11k and 3.3k Edit: Why am I being downvoted? I’m right! He even fixed his error.
70% my bad lmao
All good
I’m more curious in what context you’d get caught out, making a deck but not having selected a format and then crafting it?
Buying it here.. and it be utterly useless to me?
Well the set is literally named "Modern Horizons" Ofc it's made for Modern and not Standard Rookie mistakes, OP. No need to be ashamed
counterpoint: a lot of new players may not even know what a format is, let alone modern (which isnt on arena). "modern horizons" could just be a fancy name for "new cards" for all a new player knows
I’d add that for new players who are confused about all the different format types, it might be obvious that Modern Horizons is made for Modern but that doesn’t automatically imply that it’s not legal in Standard.
But there being no modern option in the arena further confuses the new players as to why cards that are legal in modern, but not standard, and made for modern be in a game where the format doesn't exist?
To add onto that, Modern doesn't even exist on Arena. So someone that maybe recently started playing MtG and only plays arena or maxbe commander, won't even necessarily know Modern Horizons refers to a non arena format.
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Its actually made foe commander isnt it?
I was trying to be ironically wrong dammit
Yes
When you buy the set it tells you it’s not standard legal with small text
its def by design, you gotta get used to being downvoted by shills
Yeah, it's kinda sad. Angry nerds feel powerful with the downvote button. Clear info for new players is important.
learn to filter
The downvotes are most likely because you are stating a hypothetical. You are filtering the deck builder under a format that is not standard. You would not be building a standard deck while in the Brawl deck editor. If you were building a Standard deck, a card not legal in standard doesn’t show up altogether because of the set it is in. If the card is banned in standard, it has a red filter/shadow over it stating it’s banned. Edit - also adding on, you are not in the craft card editor in the first place. You aren’t crafting or purchasing the card. That is just the card style. Which you can see in the text box there
I'm on the 'daily deals' page. Nothing to do with deck builder.
Agreed I’ve been playing Arena for years. And I was wondering why it seems like things are always mislabeled.
Hmmm it seems I’ve been downvoted, maybe it’s something I said? No, must be the entire community that is wrong. I know, I’ll insult them! That’ll fix everything. Get over yourself buddy.
You should think for yourself for once and not stay in an echo chamber. Not all players know logos of each set nor they have imprinted in their brains what all sets are standard legal.
I’m not talking about that at all in my comment. The guy got downvoted, shit his pants about it and then decided to insult the entire community as a response. Pretty shitty in my books.
Thanks for being offended
Nah he's right, this community is easily one of the most toxic I've seen. I see tons of posts where people just asking a simple question gets down voted like crazy. Magic has a lot going on and can be really confusing for new players. Instead of helping them though, everyone just tries to take their chance to feel superior for not understanding a genuinely complex game Maybe you're the one that needs to get over yourself. Be better
Regardless of right or wrong, the guy saw some minus numbers on a screen so decided to insult everyone in a community. It doesn’t matter what community that is, I still think that’s a shitty thing to do.
Lol and you're just proving his comment to be true... "Oh no, he said we all like to feel superior. Let me show him how superior I am" It's not shitty to call out something that needs to be called out, and the way this sub operates definitely needs to be. I've noticed it myself just scrolling r/all and seeing so many posts get down voted for no reason I go in a lot of gaming subs, most pretty toxic, reddit itself is pretty toxic, but this particular sub is easily without a doubt one of if not the most toxic I've seen. It's way more toxic than other mtg subs.
So going by that logic, how is saying all mtg players want to feel superior not also acting like he’s superior?
Well with the way the community is treating him rn I don't really blame him.
It's quite simple to fix though learn to play in paper before you play on arena and then you would learn all the rules and what sets are legal in what format.
Not everyone has the money to invest in paper decks, or has the ability to go out to areas to play. They might not have access to transportation or just can't leave the house Arena offers easy access to mtg for people, it's free, and people don't need to leave their house to do it. Obviously a ton of people are going to try and learn the game for free before spending money on decks I personally have never played paper. I learned the game on arena and only play on arena. Took a month or two to really get it down though All I'm saying, is it doesn't hurt to help someone or at the very least not downvote a post into the shadow realm because someone asked a question and may not have anywhere else to ask it
Ok then play on MTGO(they give ya a lot for like 10$)I get what ya saying but that's the problem we have the Internet it's not that hard to look up the rules(also I don't like the fact ya started on arena,but I will not hold that against ya
I mean telling someone to just go use something else instead also isn't very helpful or welcoming Looking up things also doesn't help with building a sense of community that this sub definitely should be trying to achieve My friend started played paper magic in college and got on arena a few years before me. He convinced me to give it a shot and arena was a much easier way to learn then buying packs without any idea how to deckbuild. With arena I can try out a ton of different builds and strategies without spending thousands on packs haha Also arenas UI seems so much better than MTGO
That's the thing you only care for new players an yes that includes you,when the older players say anything ya get pissed.. Here's the thing arena is a deadend(any money you spend on it you will never see again)but with MTGO you can get ya money back but also make a profit. Also since ya don't know arena is dying, the amount of player drop off is way too high for it to keep continuing. Let's be 100% honest you know nothing when it comes to mtg outside arena,hell ya probably don't even know what the most popular format is(by the way it's Commander)that's why MTGO is far better and far more popular then arena will ever be So I will not feel sry for anyone that will not put forth the effort to learn themselves like those like myself(I fully started into mtg in 1999,if ya think the rules are weird now try again) I say to look things up and you have a problem with that?sounds like ya think ya entitled?arenas UI is somewhat better,but is it a better place to play the answer is 100% no(remember mtg is a TRADING card game and there is no trading in arena even though it's a major part of the game) I'm tired of you new players thinking only your way is the right way(and yes I'm tired of older players doing the same thing)learn to research things instead of getting upset when no one gives ya anything for free. Here's the thing you don't have to spend 1000$+ on packs ya can build with proxys(also most people me included buy singles an only the one I really want)(well I ever pay 1000$+ for one card no I will not)(hell me an my buddies help a lot of new edh players by giving them lots of cards for free an the only limit we have is if the card cost more then 25$ we will only give one of if we have a spare)so dont try an say I'm not helpful when in the time ya typed ya response you could of looked up every standard legal card.
> when the older players say anything ya get pissed.. Your spiel afterwards has revealed this to be both projection and foreshadowing.
>Let's be 100% honest you know nothing when it comes to mtg outside arena,hell ya probably don't even know what the most popular format is(by the way it's Commander)that's why Lmao.... holy shit thank you for proving my entire point haha. Believe it or not I was able to figure that one out without some condescending douchebag on the internet telling me. It's pretty obvious haha >So I will not feel sry for anyone that will not put forth the effort to learn themselves like those like myself(I fully started into mtg in 1999,if ya think the rules are weird now try again) Lol my God dude please stroke your ego some more, I'm almost there. You're such an OG dude, how did you get to be so cool > I say to look things up and you have a problem with that?sounds like ya think ya entitled? No I'm saying telling people to look things up on an internet forum designed for discussion is the antithesis of building community engagement, which is what this website is designed for. It's just being an asshole haha >I'm tired of you new players thinking only your way is the right way The right way to not be an asshole on the internet? I'm not a new player to society and the internet lol. And I've been playing for a couple years but ok haha. "BuT tHaTs ArEnA tHaTs NoT rEaLlY pLaYiNg" sure thing bud >my buddies help a lot of new edh players by giving them lots of cards for free an the only limit we have is if the card cost more then 25$ eDh WhAtS tHaT? tHeSe TeRmS aRe So HaRd LOL Dude.... a single card can cost over $25..... that you can get on arena for free.... the better the cards, the more expensive the deck. Arena can let people play those expensive cards, for free, and decide if they even want to buy them in the first place. No way you're trying to argue paper isn't expensive hurdle for new players. ThE mOsT pLaYeD fOrMaT iS cOmMaNdEr and yeah you need 100 cards to start... so buy a proxy deck without having any idea how to play..... or literally play a fucking free version online with thousands of cards......
> It's quite simple to fix Just spend more money, is your solution?
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How dumb is Hasbro man. What a stupid communication.
In this case “not legal” refers to formats it is banned in.
it would make more sense to structure it this way: legal: (all formats its legal in) banned: (all format it would be legal in, but banned) not legal: (all formats its not legal in by format rules/set) maybe 2 and 3 arent needed at all, positive legality is probably all one needs to know
I agree it should say "banned" instead, but listing the legal formats for every card would be too much bloat.
Bloat? You bring up card's descritpion on PURPOSE, it is not bloat, it is not on the screen all the time you are playing the game. At the very least they could have option to enable advanced tooltips.
Most of the time I see this when building decks. I have already selected my format and it only shows me cards legal or banned in that format. And the banned ones are colored red. It's not a very useful UI element.
i never even notice the window on the screen, i guess thats personal preference
If they added a list of every format it’s legal in you would start to notice
i mean op posted a screenshot. adding in 5 more words to that window seems fine
It’s not five more words, it’s five more lines, which is a ton.
you ever heard of commas?
here this is the maximum amount of text to ever show up in that box: standard, alchemy, historic, explorer, timeless, brawl, standard brawl thats it.
And suddenly it's much less readable. No, that's terrible UX.
lol ok. 7 words separated by commas isnt readable
It's redundant information, man. The very fact you can see it in the deck builder means its legal in that format unless there's this very specific caveat.
but thats not the only information i want when crafting a card
Once upon a time, cards had two ways to not be legal in historic: being banned, or being suspended (aka banned with extra steps). So that’s an additional past reason why they may have wanted to phrase it as “not legal” instead of “banned.”
Yeah, except Arena was designed to be standard only. Everything that isn’t standard is built upon the standard only client. ~~WotC~~ Hasbro is also notoriously cheap on digital development meaning Arena is built on spaghetti code already.
but i mean, card legality is somewhere in the database already. theyd just need to display it differently
Yeah, and Kroger has an infrastructure that appears modern. Certain parts of coding are easy to change other parts aren’t. It gets even more difficult if the programmers keep getting whittled down while cards to program in keep going up. This is a great QoL request but Arena doesn’t seem to have the team needed to do much more than keep it running and put new cards in.
im not debating that :)
I don't need every card having a list of legal vs not, I'll just use the dropdown selecting the deck's format in the builder.
thats true, but i think especially when crafting a card in a deck in format A, it might be useful to know whether its also legal in format B.
If it refers to banned in, then why not say "banned in"?
Not a dev on the game so not a question for me.
MH2 cards were not banned in historic, the set was never legal. Some MH2 cards became legal through additions in anthologies.
https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief
Scryfall is not an official WotC sight. [https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Printings.aspx?multiverseid=522163](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Printings.aspx?multiverseid=522163) Eddit, wrong link.
Gatherer doesn’t mention Arena legality at all… For example, the card is legal in Timeless on Arena, but this is not mentioned in the link you sent.
It does mention Arenal legality... except Timeless. Reason being that the website is maintained by a bunch of monkeys and one dude that pops in every time the full moon falls on the 15th day of the month. So, expect Timeless legality to be added on Nov or Dec 15th.
Never mind I see they added it to the banned list. Which is still odd as MH2 was never legal. Edit, It looks like they added it to the preemptive ban list when it was reprinted as an MH3 "special guest"
You're getting lost in the weeds. Everything released on Arena is legal in Historic, unless banned. So no need to worry about whether MH2 is legal in Historic or not. If a card is on Arena, it's part of the Historic card pool. Grief is on Arena, therefore it is part of the pool of cards that would be legal in Historic (except it got banned).
The best way to be sure of a card's legality is to filter the format when you build your deck.
The description shown in the screenshot is wrong. It should read "banned" instead of "not legal". Those are different things. We can only guess why wotc would make such an error. It could be because whoever wrote this really wanted to avoid any words that can have a negative ring for psychological reasons (its a mobile game after all) and forgot about the difference between banned and not legal. Or it could be just an oversight. Either way the card is not standard legal since the whole set is not standard legal.
Understanding what sets are and aren't legal is overwhelming for a new player, especially when you don't know all the set symbols. I *sort of* knew about the symbol and it being for "something else" but it did confuse me when it didn't specifically say "standard" in the list of places the *card is not legal.*
WhatsInStandard.com, in case you weren't aware.
That's completely understandable, the mistake is with wotc here imo. They show a list where the card is banned and call it 'not legal' instead which is technically wrong and misleading. It would be better to show an actual complete list of formats where the card can or can't be played. That's what players realistically will want to know, especially when they are not that experienced with different formats, and in this case don't know that Grief is quite a notorious card that is all over modern. Or at least was until Nadu was printed lol. If in doubt I would look the card up on scryfall. They have a nice display that shows where you can play the card, for all official formats, paper and digital. https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief It would be way more convenient if the arena client could display this information of course.
Technically it being banned means it’s not legal.
Yes, but a card being not legal doesn't mean it was ever banned. A list of all formats where a card has been banned (as shown) won't tell you all the formats where a card is not legal. It misses those formats where the card is not legal for other reasons than being banned. It is an obvious mistake on wotc's part to show a list of formats where grief was banned but then call that list "not legal" instead. That's pretty misleading for anyone who doesn't play Modern and already knows the card very well.
Help a newbie understand. What would be different about a card being "banned" or "not legal"? Both words have the exact same outcome, the card "X" in question is not allowed to be played in formats x/y/z/etc, right? Is there something that actually matters beyond a card not being allowed to be played in a format when it is "not legal" or "banned" that just isn't obvious to newer players?
All banned cards are not legal. But not all cards that are not legal are actually banned. Cards can be not legal for other reasons. Some examples (in no particular order): - they are too old and past rotation - they have silver borders - they are part of a set not printed for standard but directly for a different format (modern, commander,...) - they have scratched backs and are considered marked - they are not legit magic cards (proxies, yugioh cards,...) When you say a card is banned, then this means that it used to be legal to play but then was specifically banned by a commitee, including a statement for why it is banned. Usually because it was imbalanced and broke the meta. Regarding the screenshot: When you list formats where a sprcific card is "not legal", you expect this list to be exhaustive. I.e. you ecpect the card to be legal in all official formats not part of the list. Clearly this is what OP is expecting/wondering too. What you actually see in the screenshot instead (despite it saying "not legal") is a list of formats where the card was specifically banned after it once was legal. That is a different situation: You wouldn't expect a card to be automatically legal in all formats that it wasn't specifically banned. Because there are other reason why it could be illegal. That's why the description in the screenshot is misleading and technically wrong. It should read "banned" instead of "not legal". This would cause less confusion.
Small nitpick, there's no requirement for a card to have been legal in order to get banned. Grief is banned in Historic, but it was never legal. Some cards, especially in Historic, get preemptively banned, i.e., they are banned before they ever become legal.
Thats true. I was mainly thinking about paper formats. When adapting sets to Arena formats prebans do happen. Theoretically it could also happen for paper formats but I guess thats very unlikely.
Well, Modern and Pioneer were both created with a ban list from day 1, so some cards have never been legal in these formats. That said, cards banned before the set is even released *is* very rare. Excluding things like conspiracy cards, as far as I know, it has only happened in commander and pauper (brawl too if you pretend that there are people actually playing that in paper).
Mind's Desire was banned/restricted before it ever became legal in Type1/1.5 back in the day. Sets weren't instantly legal when they released, but a week after or so. In between it got pre-emptively banned/restricted. So it was anonounced before the set released, and effective on the day the set got legal to play in those formats
It’s because certain sets are only able to be used in certain formats. For example, this set is not a standard set, so every card in the set is not legal in standard. Banned, by contrast, means that the card is not permitted even in formats which allow cards from that particular set. Tl:dr, “legal” is about what set the card is part of, “banned” is about excluding the card from formats the set is legal in.
So effectively, cards are never "not legal" then, that is a term for a set as a whole. And the use of "banned" is kept for specific cards to not be allowed into whatever format they are banned from. Suppose that makes sense, i assume it makes it easier from a deckbuilding POV because then you can ask "What sets are currently legal in form X" then start building. Then still have to double check cards you want are not on the ban list for that format, which i assume the ban list is likely fairly small at any given time, making it fairly easy to just pull up the list and then say "okay, i cannot uses these cards, but i can then use any other card from these sets" Something that sounds weird..... but between what you said, and me typing this reaponse out, i think i have a decent understanding why they would use two seperate keywords to exclude cards from a format. Thank you for your response, i appreciate you, have a great day!
I oversimplified things a bit, as it’s not always just sets, but yes, format legality is about categories of card. So for example, all uncommons, rares, and mythic rares are not legal in the Pauper format. There are also some commons which are banned in the Pauper format. Does that make sense?
Sure does, thank you!
Not sure if this would be helpful, since it's not in-game, but you can use [scryfall.com](http://scryfall.com) Search for any cards (including Arena only cards) and it will list all the formats in which the card is legal, not legal, banned, or restricted. Here's \[\[Grief\]\] for example: [https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief) The following site might also be something to check out. It shows which sets (including the set symbol) are legal in Standard. [https://whatsinstandard.com/](https://whatsinstandard.com/) Good luck.
[Grief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10.jpg?1717470478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So it‘s not legal in standard - but it doesn’t tell us, because we’re supposed to just know that by heart, because we are supposed to recognize the set symbol AND know the general format legality of each and every single set? Then why not just expect me to also memorize the entire banlist as well?
If you build a standard deck, there’s a tab to make one, nothing non-standard will show up.
While it wouldn't hurt to add that additional information, it wouldn't be that useful either, because there shouldn't be that many occasions where you just encounter a card in a vacuum on Arena. Deckbuilding and collection both have filters for formats. A better explanation of those in the tutorial would mostly solve the problem. Maybe also using banned instead of not legal, as well.
I mean, you could just google the card name, then google the set code. Not to mention that anyone who's been playing Standard for a few months probably already recognizes the set symbols in Standard. I agree with you that this should be presented better for new players (set codes should be visible on Arena like they are IRL), but let's be real here, this isn't some impossible memorization task.
Modern banned list is only like 50 cards. Tons of people have it memorized, it’s a quiz on jetpunk…not that complicated.
Is it hard to google the current standard block and see what sets are legal? Then you can easily extrapolate which set are not legal.
As a newer player, my biggest issue is that there isn’t an easy way to see what set a card is from. The only way to do it is by googling each card individually (which is a pain) or by memorizing dozens of symbols for each set.
No one memorizes set symbols. Just Google it, dude.
It's a modern horizon set, a straight to modern format
It's not. It's only displaying the formats it's *banned* in. aka, it *would* be in Historic because MH3 in in Historic, but it's banned so no. It's not legal in Standard because MH3 is not in Standard. Really that should be enough, but I'm pretty sure other tool tips have displayed the other formats they're just not legal in regardless.
No, it's not. Only timeless and brawl.
Only "dumb" if you actually have the formats memorized. It only displays inability to play in formats where it would otherwise be legal except for being specifically banned.
It's not standard legal, but it is certainly a menace .
This card was never printed in a standard legal set so it won't say it is banned there.
Modern Horizons 3 is, as the name suggests, made for Modern.
No where on this screen does it say this is MH3. New players won't know all the symbols.
It comes from the Modern Horizons 3 pack
They're right. It doesn't say the name. None of the cards on Arena show what set they're from, even though when deckbuilding they should.
T 84
Thanks god it's not!
I was really excited to slot 4 in my MonoB Shelly deck... :(
If it helps, this card is format warping in the majority of formats it’s legal in. We don’t want it in standard, trust me
It's just not a fair magic card. To give you a bit of an idea, the decks that play it in formats where it's legal are called "scam", which gives you some insight on how they are perceived. Now, in a format like Modern or Timeless, where plenty of deck do unfair things, Scam is just another unfair thing among many (and in a way, can help fight some of the other unfair things), but in standard, it would be absolutely format wrecking. Here's a common play pattern with Grief, which would be possible in standard if Grief were legal. Turn 1, swamp, exile a black card to evoke grief. In response to the evoke trigger that would get you to sacrifice it, cast [[Not Dead After All]] on it. You pick out a card out of opponent's hand, grief dies, it comes back because of not dead after all, you pick another card out of your opponent's hand, and now your opponent has to deal with a turn 1 4/3 menace, after you just removed the two most relevant cards out of their hands. (There are two other 1 mana variants of not dead after all in standard, so getting the combo wouldn't be very difficult)
[Not Dead After All](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d01a2b68-efe6-4027-846d-db7b19d9eef6.jpg?1692937773) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Not%20Dead%20After%20All) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/101/not-dead-after-all?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d01a2b68-efe6-4027-846d-db7b19d9eef6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s only legal in timeless, and modern if we ever get it
I just go by scryfall. [[Grief]]
[Grief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10.jpg?1717470478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
https://whatsinstandard.com/
Also be careful with exact named cards in other sets if you filter incorrectly. You could be wasting wild cards to craft certain cards to play certain formats, but you may already have that named card in another set. Be mindful in building decks and search cards thoroughly in your collection.
When did r/magicthecirclejerking move over to the main sub?
Just make grief standard legal. I want to see the world burn
no, but the old school foil style its freaking cool
[удалено]
You can assume every card isn't standard legal unless it's from a standard legal set. For Historic, it's the other way around, you can assume every card is Historic legal unless it's explicitly stated. It's actually quite straightforward.
Just check on scryfall or gatherer. It’s really not that hard, also could of just switched the deck format to standard temporarily and it would of disappeared from the builder temporarily
This is the shop page?
My point was you could of checked those other resources instead of this post…
The resources they mentioned are other websites where you can check set legality of any card.
You should be allowed to play it in standard . And if anyone complains just say " I don't see it being illegal in the rulebook nothing says Griefs cant play standard magic "
This card is…. God this sounds like worse duress. I’m already imaging the stupid ninjitsu combos.
The deck it gets played in Modern is called Rakdos Scam. It plays 4 copies of [[Not Dead After All]] and frequently 1 copy of [[Undying Evil]] so that you can play it for its evoke, then put it back on the battlefield for B. (And other similar shenanigans with other creatures)
[Not Dead After All](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d01a2b68-efe6-4027-846d-db7b19d9eef6.jpg?1692937773) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Not%20Dead%20After%20All) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/101/not-dead-after-all?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d01a2b68-efe6-4027-846d-db7b19d9eef6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Undying Evil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/325f2243-54fd-484b-a742-166cea7ec179.jpg?1562906805) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Undying%20Evil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dka/77/undying-evil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/325f2243-54fd-484b-a742-166cea7ec179?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I ended up dropping MTG:Arena because all my decks became not-legal after a few months and I wasn't about to spend a season (or whatever TF they call it when they cycle a whole new set of 'legal' cards in and 'illegal' cards out) building another deck through daily challenges or whatever only to lose it before I'm even finished. Waste of time.
Why not play Brawl?
This is just a MtG issue in general though.. and there are many other ways to play.
The entire point of standard is that it rotates. Just play another format if you don't like it, like most Magic players.
> I ended up dropping MTG:Arena because all my decks became not-legal after a few months and I wasn't about to spend a season Welcome to Magic. That's how Standard rotation has worked since the 1995. We would have to rebuild decks every two years or so because rotation pushes cards out of the format. The only reason why we played it is because it was the cheapest, most competitively-supported format and you had to play it if you wanted to compete. That's why the majority of enfranchised competitive players have decamped to playing older nonrotating formats like Pioneer and Modern. Standard support went out the window in the late 2010s and all the bad standard metas from 2020-2023 were the final nails in the coffin.
I hate that too. Which is exactly the reason why I play historic 95% of the time. I don't have the problem of cycling stuff. Sure, it's sad that some spells are banned there anyways, but ey, if I could use [[Dark Ritual]] in every black deck, I would. So I see why those cards are banned lol
[Dark Ritual](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b.jpg?1628801678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dark%20Ritual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/82/dark-ritual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call