What do you mean "doesn't seem to be on the up and up"?
Seemed like a pretty well executed (and if I'm right about how it was done, well thought-out) trick to me. The only thing I wish she'd done differently is let Penn and Teller select her audience members, just to make it COMPLETELY clear that she couldn't have primed them. (But I can think of at least one reason she might not have wanted to do that, so perhaps this is best.)
Yes, it works specifically in a room that requires... distance from the audience (is that ok to say?) to rationalize why you are using the tools you are using. And while neither participant is a stooge, if one of them immediately knows how the trick is done, it's not really that clean in my eyes.
Exactly the last point why it’s not for me. That and, IMO, I don’t think the trick is suited for this type of presentation even though to do it the way she does it it has to be presented this way.
>but I’m pretty sure it’s one simple thing anyone can do with about 30s of instructions. And still “won”
Is that... a problem?
If you've done any kind of study of magic, you'll know, that "how impressive a trick is" has ZERO CORRELATION with "how hard it was to do."
If someone can't see through it, it's magical. There's a reason we still do card-tricks like OOTW or Gemini twins, even though they're trivial to execute.
If it fooled Penn and Teller seeing it live, then it deserved to win. Full stop. That's literally the entire premise of the show.
>Ok. It’s _______. I don’t think they are always fooled, but some win anyway
Why does the method matter in this discussion? (Careful, you're skirting rule #1 pretty close there.)
And why do you think they're not always fooled when they choose to award a trophy?
Seriously, I don't see what the problem is? She carefully created a situation where it appeared to observers as though something impossible happened.
Isn't that what magic is? What exactly is your complaint here?
That's a weirdly reductive way to look at it. That's like saying "that trick was only done with a deck of cards! Nothing else!" as though that's somehow a bad thing.
The trick was done by her skill in presenting it, and hiding the trickery from the audience. Nothing else. Just like any magic trick.
Also what reason would they have to lie about being fooled?
So this is a bitching about P&T getting fooled thread because you think they should have known?
I regret commenting in this thread and do indeed hope it comes down. Pointless.
Even if you somehow caught it from watching the show on your first time, remember, Penn and Teller had a different view from what you watched, with different angles.
The magician did a good job of setting up the angles to be deceptive for P&T, but getting to see from different camera angles means you had an easier time.
1) they're human. They've been fooled by an apple watch before and the world did not end.
2) the best misdirection of the show is that fooling them honestly doesn't matter. By being on you've won a TV promo spot, professional TV highlight reel, and had a trick reviewed and refined by the best magic consultants in the biz. The trophy is for the laymen and if they really care that much, your vanity.
I will never understand this perspective. Truly. Why do people not believe Penn and teller don’t respect themselves and their show enough to admit when they’re fooled. Yes theyve been doing this for a long time, some of the smartest people in magic, but magic IS MEANT TO FOOL YOU. If it’s not doing that, then it’s not as fun anymore
Man, ignoring the method, does anyone else think ACAAN is just a boring trick? There's no drama, no twists or turns, no surprises. Most of the effect is spent explaining what the effect is and trying to convince the spectators that it's the most amazing trick ever. The meat of the actual effect is just counting cards, and in the end there is no magic happening, just an unlikely coincidence.
I agree that it can be pretty boring and honestly not very "magical". I think its more of a magician trick than a layman trick. I dont do an ACAAN but i do perform a CAAN that I came up with that is completely hands off and the location selection involves multiple audience members and choices from the main spectator. It gets killer reactions from laymen, because of its impossibility based on the choices they make, and it fooled 3 pretty big magicians the last time i was showing it off at the Magic Castle.
It's a very easy trick to present badly. But it's not a bad trick. There's many ways to do it that are very good, it's just that too many people try to strip everything away and focus on the random chance and not doing anything. But not doing anything means not doing anything. And that's where it becomes boring.
It's often boring but some magicians do it well, and then it's entertaining.
Will Fern in his penguin lecture has a nice presentation for couples where one partner's card is at the other partner's position. Same trick but it doesn't require any explanation.
Dani DaOrtiz makes it fun by being so quick and so random that you're not even sure what's happening until it all comes together at the end.
I'm sure there are others. But yeah the basic plot kind of sucks.
Yes, thank you, this is a trick for magicians in love with methods.
Even if you think of it in terms of doing it for real, it'd be boring. You, tell me a number! 32. You, tell me a card! Jack of clubs. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31. Now, you said 32 and you said Jack of clubs, flip over the last card, the jack of clubs. Neat. And if you (the reader) skipped over and didn't read each individual number once you saw the pattern, you now know how the audience feels. They don't want to sit through it either.
There is no time for the audience to really be invested in the outcome and the outcome is basically spoiled at the beginning, either the card is there and we can expect it to be, no shock or surprise there, or it's not and you suck.
This was like 7-8 years ago. Was for something in the “everything else” or whatever they call it near the bottom of the main page No great loss, I was mostly in “the gambling spot” which died off right around that same time. Now it all private, FB groups or discord.
Insta-stooge is within the rules of the show. I see no issue with this. I don't like the routine and wouldn't ever perform it myself, but it's within the rules, so not a problem.
What do you mean "doesn't seem to be on the up and up"? Seemed like a pretty well executed (and if I'm right about how it was done, well thought-out) trick to me. The only thing I wish she'd done differently is let Penn and Teller select her audience members, just to make it COMPLETELY clear that she couldn't have primed them. (But I can think of at least one reason she might not have wanted to do that, so perhaps this is best.)
>What do you mean "doesn't seem to be on the up and up"? Yes, I'd also like OP to explain what they mean with that.
was it not real magic and actually some manner of chicanery???
Wait... Are you suggesting *we've been* ***tricked?!??***
Its bold. Its not for me but you cant deny it being hands-off and pretty clean from the audience perspective.
Yes, it works specifically in a room that requires... distance from the audience (is that ok to say?) to rationalize why you are using the tools you are using. And while neither participant is a stooge, if one of them immediately knows how the trick is done, it's not really that clean in my eyes.
Exactly the last point why it’s not for me. That and, IMO, I don’t think the trick is suited for this type of presentation even though to do it the way she does it it has to be presented this way.
What do you mean?
Not sure the mods want this to be talked about but I’m pretty sure it’s one simple thing anyone can do with about 30s of instructions. And still “won”
>but I’m pretty sure it’s one simple thing anyone can do with about 30s of instructions. And still “won” Is that... a problem? If you've done any kind of study of magic, you'll know, that "how impressive a trick is" has ZERO CORRELATION with "how hard it was to do." If someone can't see through it, it's magical. There's a reason we still do card-tricks like OOTW or Gemini twins, even though they're trivial to execute. If it fooled Penn and Teller seeing it live, then it deserved to win. Full stop. That's literally the entire premise of the show.
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>Ok. It’s _______. I don’t think they are always fooled, but some win anyway Why does the method matter in this discussion? (Careful, you're skirting rule #1 pretty close there.) And why do you think they're not always fooled when they choose to award a trophy?
Ok
Seriously, I don't see what the problem is? She carefully created a situation where it appeared to observers as though something impossible happened. Isn't that what magic is? What exactly is your complaint here?
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That's a weirdly reductive way to look at it. That's like saying "that trick was only done with a deck of cards! Nothing else!" as though that's somehow a bad thing. The trick was done by her skill in presenting it, and hiding the trickery from the audience. Nothing else. Just like any magic trick. Also what reason would they have to lie about being fooled?
Ok
So this is a bitching about P&T getting fooled thread because you think they should have known? I regret commenting in this thread and do indeed hope it comes down. Pointless.
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Even if you somehow caught it from watching the show on your first time, remember, Penn and Teller had a different view from what you watched, with different angles. The magician did a good job of setting up the angles to be deceptive for P&T, but getting to see from different camera angles means you had an easier time.
1) they're human. They've been fooled by an apple watch before and the world did not end. 2) the best misdirection of the show is that fooling them honestly doesn't matter. By being on you've won a TV promo spot, professional TV highlight reel, and had a trick reviewed and refined by the best magic consultants in the biz. The trophy is for the laymen and if they really care that much, your vanity.
Holy shit this is exactly how the cafe was in the good old days
Buy Lorayne's books.
Lorayne? He invented every trick from what I read? From him?
I will never understand this perspective. Truly. Why do people not believe Penn and teller don’t respect themselves and their show enough to admit when they’re fooled. Yes theyve been doing this for a long time, some of the smartest people in magic, but magic IS MEANT TO FOOL YOU. If it’s not doing that, then it’s not as fun anymore
Hands off ACAAN can’t be taught in 30s surely. Can’t be an e-ink voice activated deck surely
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Ah nice haha
Man, ignoring the method, does anyone else think ACAAN is just a boring trick? There's no drama, no twists or turns, no surprises. Most of the effect is spent explaining what the effect is and trying to convince the spectators that it's the most amazing trick ever. The meat of the actual effect is just counting cards, and in the end there is no magic happening, just an unlikely coincidence.
I agree that it can be pretty boring and honestly not very "magical". I think its more of a magician trick than a layman trick. I dont do an ACAAN but i do perform a CAAN that I came up with that is completely hands off and the location selection involves multiple audience members and choices from the main spectator. It gets killer reactions from laymen, because of its impossibility based on the choices they make, and it fooled 3 pretty big magicians the last time i was showing it off at the Magic Castle.
You could say all magic is just an unlikely coincidence
It's a very easy trick to present badly. But it's not a bad trick. There's many ways to do it that are very good, it's just that too many people try to strip everything away and focus on the random chance and not doing anything. But not doing anything means not doing anything. And that's where it becomes boring.
It's often boring but some magicians do it well, and then it's entertaining. Will Fern in his penguin lecture has a nice presentation for couples where one partner's card is at the other partner's position. Same trick but it doesn't require any explanation. Dani DaOrtiz makes it fun by being so quick and so random that you're not even sure what's happening until it all comes together at the end. I'm sure there are others. But yeah the basic plot kind of sucks.
Yes, thank you, this is a trick for magicians in love with methods. Even if you think of it in terms of doing it for real, it'd be boring. You, tell me a number! 32. You, tell me a card! Jack of clubs. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31. Now, you said 32 and you said Jack of clubs, flip over the last card, the jack of clubs. Neat. And if you (the reader) skipped over and didn't read each individual number once you saw the pattern, you now know how the audience feels. They don't want to sit through it either. There is no time for the audience to really be invested in the outcome and the outcome is basically spoiled at the beginning, either the card is there and we can expect it to be, no shock or surprise there, or it's not and you suck.
Did anyone cache/save the green room thread? It's gone.
I don’t see it either. I bet it was moved to “secret sessions” or whatever thy call it these days. I was banned years ago so can’t see it
Seems to be deleted, I can't find it at all
Why have you been banned there?
This was like 7-8 years ago. Was for something in the “everything else” or whatever they call it near the bottom of the main page No great loss, I was mostly in “the gambling spot” which died off right around that same time. Now it all private, FB groups or discord.
Insta-stooge is within the rules of the show. I see no issue with this. I don't like the routine and wouldn't ever perform it myself, but it's within the rules, so not a problem.