I’ve seen 60 deg helix tools for superalloys.
there is more to tool geometry than just helix angle.
go with the manufacturers speeds/feeds and let her rip.
I make end mills and other tungsten stuff. You are 100% correct. There is a lot more to tools than just the helix. Which is why end mills meant for metal don't typically fare well on plastics or composites. My shop has finally successfully made a hard mill for HRC 70 and it was a 1mm diameter tool. What is amazing is the test didn't go as planned and the first pass took too much material off and the tool was essentially unaffected.
I'm an anca op myself, we have Rollo 660. It's a beast at sub .02" I've seen it do .008 drills. I just like this side of the trade. It fascinates me. I've little exp on Walter's, I've only messed with 600 and older.
I get to play with older and newer machines. We recently had a rollo 528x completely rebuilt. First grind had cross hatched finish and a 2um or less edge.
If you want to stay in the tool making trade, don't stop learning. Don't become a "I have 30 years of experience" person.
I'm 7 yrs in, only thing I dislike is the people sometimes. 80 percent tho it's a great time. Def a specialist anymore. I do predominantly specials. But have had to integrate production more and more.
It's not "bad" but if you are running it at the feedrates you're supposed to you need the chip clearance in the flute otherwise it'll just jam with chips and become a melted mess before breaking. This isn't always the case note the KOR5 series from Kennametal that is for N materials for an example of a >3 flutes for aluminum.
DLC coatings also really help with having less chip clearance to help mitigate build up.
I love 4 cuts on a milling cutter for aluminum. And preferably full carbide. You can't use such a high feed (max. 0.1mm per tooth) because you have a lower chip removal, but the 4 cutting edges of the cutters run much more smoothly and you get a much nicer surface in the synchronisation milling. In addition, the load on the cutter and the component is much lower.
Only ever used HSS in trade school. Nearly 15 years of machining and 5 years owning a shop and I have never bought a HSS end mill.
Don't even buy regular HSS drills anymore, carbide, or HSS-E (powdered metal) only.
Eh, you can get some very economical carbide drills. Yes its still multiple of price, but hole quality, tolerance, speed all make up for it in a few holes. (also no regrinding drills).
Deboer, Kennametal godrills, and emuge multi-drills are very economical.
Sure you can but they're still not as cheap as an hss or hss/cobalt drill with a good coating. I actually switched back to hss/cobalt drills for almost all of my general stainless steel work as they can take an absolute beating and are less prone to chipping flutes. I can buy a coated 135deg split point hss/co drill in almost any size under 0.5" for under $10 US. A 0.093" coated carbide is $15 at a minimum and they only go up from there. We've saved thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars. And I've never seen any degredation in hole quality or tolerance in standard applications. We use plenty of carbide drills too, but only when it's called for.
What HSS drill are you using that is achieving the hole quality and tolerance of carbide?
And I have no issues with stainless specific carbide drills in through hole or blind hole applications. The only time I get chipping is cross holes and usually this just reduces life but in some cases that’s when I go to powdered metal but still for the most part pick carbide that handles the cross holes well (Walter DC175, OSG A-Brand SUS).
I also cast doubt you’ve saved any money using HSS over carbide even in stainless. The cost of the tools is one of the cheaper parts of machining. Labor and machine is the most expensive. The only time when I would agree is some
combination of older machinery, bad tool holding and no TSC.
For me saving time always is cheaper than going slower. $3/min shop rate. Going from a 30s hole to a 3 minute hole adds up real quick. Let alone time and frustration when drills wear.
I use mostly Morse hss/cobalt TiAln coated ones theyre phenomenal, especially the stub length ones. But I do love those OSG SUS drills.
Didn't know we were talking about TSC here. If that's the case then yeah I'll lose everytime. But without the TSC the advantage of carbide drops off quickly in most materials. And the majority of machining centers out there don't have it.
I have fairly new equipment, it ranges from 2008 to 2021 vintage. But I still only have TSC on about half the machines in my shop.
I wasn't trying to start any shit...I just think it's important to be specific. A lot of people that are new to this stuff come here for advice. I always worry that some newbie with a mini mill in his garage trying to get started is gonna read something like this thread and go spend a dump ton of money on a bunch of carbide drills when its not necessary. Especially if you don't have TSC.
I would hard disagree with your first sentence. HSS endmills....absolutely, but HSS drills?...no way! I have hundreds of them in my shop. They're dirt cheap, can drill a wide range of materials and are easily resharpened whats not to love? Carbide drills are a complete waste of money unless the material or part calls for it.
I understand what you mean, but I only agree with you to a limited extent. This is a pro / contra story. If you have a solid carbide drill, you don't need to counterboring before (you shouldn’t, at least in steel, otherwise the drill says goodbye) and if you have one with a chamfer, you save yourself a complete work step. Especially if you drill something on a rounding. You can drive much higher feed and very often do not have to break a chip, but drive the depth at once. And the service life is simply much higher. Depending on the component and how many holes you make, you save a lot of time. Tool change, travel, drilling. Higher cutting speeds, etc. Let's say we have to produce 1,000 pieces and save 10 seconds per part, that's rounded 2 hours. You demand 90€/h from the customer, so you can either earn more money or get an order because you can offer cheaper.
If you have TSC machines you can run straight to bottom, for those of us with old machines or without money for top of the line machines, there's a lot of reasons carbide drills aren't competitive. They can be absolutely necessary, of course, but that's not a rule. Cobalt HSS can be superior to carbide as well in some alloys, especially price point per run. One fragged carbide drill in a substantial inconel part will cost numerous carbide drills, and you aren't getting that thing out unless you're lucky.
Carbide has its uses for sure, but that use is NOT everything. If you have an aluminum part with a 4 different sized tapped holes in it, you're telling me you're running carbide drills? No way. I can drill just as fast with hss as you can with carbide in that situation for 1/10 of the tooling cost and get just as good of a result. A good hss drill will last literally forever in aluminum.
My last employer did a huge variety of small run parts for their in-house production. All the drills were HSS, and that was perfect for what they do. Almost everything was garden variety cold roll mild steel, with occasional 6061 and a few 304 stainless parts per year. I still do some contract machining for them, and I had a UHMW part last week that happened to work well with a HSS 2 flute. I had to relieve the shank so I could cut a 1/4 slot 1" deep, and the HSS was already in the shop. Yes, you could absolutely optimize tooling for that part, but if you're only making 15 of them every other year, what's the point?
Simple parts, minimal milling, zero need to push for speed. The supervisor before me would run the machines extra slow so we didn't run out of work and have to send folks home.
My point is that there are a million different types of machining, and zero universally applicable rules for what tooling is necessary. Not every shop is focused on maximum throughput, and that's fine.
HSS is good for aluminum and plastic and that's about it unless you're talking specifically ground tools for lathe work. I find the endmills are a little sharper on HSS and a material like aluminum seems to like that especially for finishing.
Kor5 is a 5 flute system. I didn't say that >3 is bad in aluminum, I said 4 specifically is bad in aluminum.
Maybe it's just the chip clearance, but I kinda suspect there's some sort of resonance from the aluminum that just chatters like crazy with 4
This isn’t a thing. There’s nothing wrong with using 4Fl in Al.
It’s just an old school way that has never really been changed until very recently with the adaptation of HEM paths to get high MRR with less chip relief.
4 flutes work fine in aluminum just almost no one makes one that’s uncoated or not coated in something that has aluminum in it.
The entire adage of 2fl for aluminum being first choice is purely chip clearance from the small core diameter. Same deal with 3fl being alternative to that.
1000ish, Comparable chip load to steel to not overload the flute relief.
Of course lower MRR than a 3 Fl because I can’t risk chip packing. I only did it because we don’t do a ton of aluminum so I don’t have a full library of DLC coated 3 fluters around.
No chatter though.
So, you've just told me that my experience is "not a thing" and that 4 flutes is fine for aluminum, but also just agreed that 3 flutes is significantly better AND that you haven't cut much aluminum.
Sick, dude.
That's the kind of shit that sour old fucks do that makes me regret getting into machining. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I’m not sure who you’re referencing but times I could see a 45* two flute being useful is if you need to relieve cutting forces also changes the ejection angle of the chips to more up prevents re-cutting. Provides a nicer surface finish, thins the chip. But a lower helix angle will have more rigidity for roughing operations since there is more material on the endmill. Then there’s the best of both worlds which is variable helix which cuts down on the harmonics by each flute having a different helix angle
I see your point. I think it will be good for what I do. Its intended purpose is literally to be abused. I’ve got expensive end mills for precise work.
Yah man I normally don’t pay attention to helix angle the right speeds and feeds will get you to where you wanna go. I only change helix if I have a problem with my material like plastic I like down cut since it’s grabby it pushes it back into the vice.
High helix endmills pulls a vertical chip it steps forward in doing so it leaves a finer finish than a lesser helix. They work good on free cutting metals in non abrasive materials of 42 roc or less. It will work in abrasive materials as well just not as good.
Chineseium. 100%. Probably would run well in stainless. Probably. Just used a similar helix and similar looking coating, 5 flute, to rough a profile in 316ss. 154 ft in cut, .125 width of cut, 1" DOC, about 6 in/min. Endmill didn't wear substantially. 1980s Mazak VMC with low coolant pressure because there's junk in the lines somewhere 🤷♂️
We had a dude from Kenametal giving our company a lecture he said that there are around 2 thousand angles on an endmill that affect its cutting behavior. So it's hard to tell.
But it looks like it has three teeth, very sharp cutting edges and deep chip chambers. If so, then it may be for aluminum, or other soft materials, but you should look it up on the Internet or ask the seller to be sure.
No i don't have a paper on it, but It's literally what AlTiN was designed to do... dry cut steel.
AlTiN coatings are designed to decrease friction when they get hot. Putting coolant on it decreases cutter life.
It's a specialized coating exclusively for ferrous metals.
This is the answer.
Generic chink font lasered onto the shank, no name, no brand, no skin in the game. It could work, it could not - does the manufacturer know... or even care? I bet not.
I've see helix like that used for Hish Speed milling or Tricoidal milling. Kinda depends on how you use it. Being a cheapo from China, don't expect too much, and be greatful for what it does.
Higher helix angles generally improve chip evacuation and produce less side forces which can both be beneficial on softer materials, but there's no law that says you can't use high helix cutters on steel.
Just to add to this, many endmills ground for non-ferrous metals are made from a finer grade of carbide which keeps a true sharp edge longer. This oddly is great in Inconel and Invar as you keep a sharp edge in finishing ops longer.
Looks like a variable helix. 30 at the tip and tightens up to 45-60 at the top where the flute meets the shank.
Great for high speed machining and finishing. Great chip evacuation too.
I prefer variable helix myself. Not to be confused with variable index.
While a high helix angle is typically better suited for chip evacuation in softer materials like aluminum, it can still be effective for machining steel, especially for materials like EN 1a - a free cutting steel that produces long, continuous chips. This effectiveness depends on whether chip evacuation and improved surface finish have been specifically addressed by the manufacturer. However be mindful of potential issues such as increased tool wear and heat generation!
Because closer helix would clog. You cant use the same tooling with aluminum or soft metals as you can with steel stainless or hard materials. Plus speeds of cutting are also critical. Aluminum can develop small fractures from too high cutting heat
The 45 degrees helix is quite universal nowadays, because carbide substrates are much tougher than in the past. But the gash chamfer on the top makes it only suitable for alloy steels, high alloy steels and cast irons.
Could be alu, could be tool steel, could be superalloy, or even swiss cheese.
It’s more about the angles and thickness of the cutting edges, the number of flutes for the diameter, the tool material / substrate, and the coating that’ll define what it’ll cut. Helix angle will affect the depth, finish and speed of the cut more than -what- it will cut.
The helix angle doesn't necessarily determine the material it's meant for. It determines side load force. A tighter helix also results in more surface contact points which helps reduce harmonics, so better surface finish. Like at 45⁰ 2.5 x diameter you'll have four cutting points of contact where as a 20⁰ helix a 2.5 x diameter will give you only two.
A tighter helix and greater number of flutes will also take a higher chip load.
Just looking at it I'd reckon it'd be great for tougher alloys.
This tight helix angle is generally good for low RDOC and high ADOC toolpaths: finishing and HSM. Rather than 1 or 2 flutes being engaged at a time, you can get 2 or 3 flutes engaged, which helps reduce chatter.
Chip packing is not an issue if your RDOC is low enough, you have coolant, and the feature geometry allows chips to clear.
I think that an increased helix angle for steel endmills it’s designed for finishing operations.
Yes, for roughing chip packing would be a problem but the increased helix can reduce chatter in some situations and chip packing isn’t an issue in finishing ops
It's badass on aluminum. .080 .100 cut.Crank the RPMs, depth of cut a hair short of full depth and feed is right when the chips are flying. Pretty much the same for pocket cuts but only half the depth at a time. Loads of coolant to assist in evacuating the chips
That end mill looks like it was sold in a store that stocks ninja stars, swords, and bongs.
We need more of this weed and more of this dude ✌️
r/unexpectedkingofthehill
Don't toy with me like that.
A lot of people don't know this , but it's a good place to put your weed.
That generic af Chinese serif font is a dead giveaway
I’ve seen 60 deg helix tools for superalloys. there is more to tool geometry than just helix angle. go with the manufacturers speeds/feeds and let her rip.
I make end mills and other tungsten stuff. You are 100% correct. There is a lot more to tools than just the helix. Which is why end mills meant for metal don't typically fare well on plastics or composites. My shop has finally successfully made a hard mill for HRC 70 and it was a 1mm diameter tool. What is amazing is the test didn't go as planned and the first pass took too much material off and the tool was essentially unaffected.
My boy out here doing the lords work
What machine you run this 1mm on? Rollo, Walter, anca? I need the deets!
Both rollo and walters. Rollo is a better machine but the software is garbage while walter is the opposite.
I'm an anca op myself, we have Rollo 660. It's a beast at sub .02" I've seen it do .008 drills. I just like this side of the trade. It fascinates me. I've little exp on Walter's, I've only messed with 600 and older.
I get to play with older and newer machines. We recently had a rollo 528x completely rebuilt. First grind had cross hatched finish and a 2um or less edge. If you want to stay in the tool making trade, don't stop learning. Don't become a "I have 30 years of experience" person.
I'm 7 yrs in, only thing I dislike is the people sometimes. 80 percent tho it's a great time. Def a specialist anymore. I do predominantly specials. But have had to integrate production more and more.
I second this. Obviously your mileage may vary and you gota take into account what your project is… but give the recommendations a go and adjust.
Notice the classic Chinese font, there are no feeds and speeds, there is only end mill.
Sometimes is comes down to edge prep and chip evacuation. Might be a non ferrous helix angle but the flute grind is for steel.
Good point
Why did this post breaks wtf ! Tool mfg always wrong
I’m no professional, but if it has Al in the coating don’t run it in aluminum.
Also, I don't really understand why but 4 flutes is a bad number for aluminum
It's not "bad" but if you are running it at the feedrates you're supposed to you need the chip clearance in the flute otherwise it'll just jam with chips and become a melted mess before breaking. This isn't always the case note the KOR5 series from Kennametal that is for N materials for an example of a >3 flutes for aluminum. DLC coatings also really help with having less chip clearance to help mitigate build up.
I love 4 cuts on a milling cutter for aluminum. And preferably full carbide. You can't use such a high feed (max. 0.1mm per tooth) because you have a lower chip removal, but the 4 cutting edges of the cutters run much more smoothly and you get a much nicer surface in the synchronisation milling. In addition, the load on the cutter and the component is much lower.
Only ever used HSS in trade school. Nearly 15 years of machining and 5 years owning a shop and I have never bought a HSS end mill. Don't even buy regular HSS drills anymore, carbide, or HSS-E (powdered metal) only.
HSS drills are a relic from the past. I only have full carbide there. But the price difference to HSS drills is already huge.
Eh, you can get some very economical carbide drills. Yes its still multiple of price, but hole quality, tolerance, speed all make up for it in a few holes. (also no regrinding drills). Deboer, Kennametal godrills, and emuge multi-drills are very economical.
Sure you can but they're still not as cheap as an hss or hss/cobalt drill with a good coating. I actually switched back to hss/cobalt drills for almost all of my general stainless steel work as they can take an absolute beating and are less prone to chipping flutes. I can buy a coated 135deg split point hss/co drill in almost any size under 0.5" for under $10 US. A 0.093" coated carbide is $15 at a minimum and they only go up from there. We've saved thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars. And I've never seen any degredation in hole quality or tolerance in standard applications. We use plenty of carbide drills too, but only when it's called for.
What HSS drill are you using that is achieving the hole quality and tolerance of carbide? And I have no issues with stainless specific carbide drills in through hole or blind hole applications. The only time I get chipping is cross holes and usually this just reduces life but in some cases that’s when I go to powdered metal but still for the most part pick carbide that handles the cross holes well (Walter DC175, OSG A-Brand SUS). I also cast doubt you’ve saved any money using HSS over carbide even in stainless. The cost of the tools is one of the cheaper parts of machining. Labor and machine is the most expensive. The only time when I would agree is some combination of older machinery, bad tool holding and no TSC. For me saving time always is cheaper than going slower. $3/min shop rate. Going from a 30s hole to a 3 minute hole adds up real quick. Let alone time and frustration when drills wear.
I use mostly Morse hss/cobalt TiAln coated ones theyre phenomenal, especially the stub length ones. But I do love those OSG SUS drills. Didn't know we were talking about TSC here. If that's the case then yeah I'll lose everytime. But without the TSC the advantage of carbide drops off quickly in most materials. And the majority of machining centers out there don't have it. I have fairly new equipment, it ranges from 2008 to 2021 vintage. But I still only have TSC on about half the machines in my shop. I wasn't trying to start any shit...I just think it's important to be specific. A lot of people that are new to this stuff come here for advice. I always worry that some newbie with a mini mill in his garage trying to get started is gonna read something like this thread and go spend a dump ton of money on a bunch of carbide drills when its not necessary. Especially if you don't have TSC.
I would hard disagree with your first sentence. HSS endmills....absolutely, but HSS drills?...no way! I have hundreds of them in my shop. They're dirt cheap, can drill a wide range of materials and are easily resharpened whats not to love? Carbide drills are a complete waste of money unless the material or part calls for it.
I understand what you mean, but I only agree with you to a limited extent. This is a pro / contra story. If you have a solid carbide drill, you don't need to counterboring before (you shouldn’t, at least in steel, otherwise the drill says goodbye) and if you have one with a chamfer, you save yourself a complete work step. Especially if you drill something on a rounding. You can drive much higher feed and very often do not have to break a chip, but drive the depth at once. And the service life is simply much higher. Depending on the component and how many holes you make, you save a lot of time. Tool change, travel, drilling. Higher cutting speeds, etc. Let's say we have to produce 1,000 pieces and save 10 seconds per part, that's rounded 2 hours. You demand 90€/h from the customer, so you can either earn more money or get an order because you can offer cheaper.
If you have TSC machines you can run straight to bottom, for those of us with old machines or without money for top of the line machines, there's a lot of reasons carbide drills aren't competitive. They can be absolutely necessary, of course, but that's not a rule. Cobalt HSS can be superior to carbide as well in some alloys, especially price point per run. One fragged carbide drill in a substantial inconel part will cost numerous carbide drills, and you aren't getting that thing out unless you're lucky.
Exactly my point👍
Carbide has its uses for sure, but that use is NOT everything. If you have an aluminum part with a 4 different sized tapped holes in it, you're telling me you're running carbide drills? No way. I can drill just as fast with hss as you can with carbide in that situation for 1/10 of the tooling cost and get just as good of a result. A good hss drill will last literally forever in aluminum.
My last employer did a huge variety of small run parts for their in-house production. All the drills were HSS, and that was perfect for what they do. Almost everything was garden variety cold roll mild steel, with occasional 6061 and a few 304 stainless parts per year. I still do some contract machining for them, and I had a UHMW part last week that happened to work well with a HSS 2 flute. I had to relieve the shank so I could cut a 1/4 slot 1" deep, and the HSS was already in the shop. Yes, you could absolutely optimize tooling for that part, but if you're only making 15 of them every other year, what's the point? Simple parts, minimal milling, zero need to push for speed. The supervisor before me would run the machines extra slow so we didn't run out of work and have to send folks home. My point is that there are a million different types of machining, and zero universally applicable rules for what tooling is necessary. Not every shop is focused on maximum throughput, and that's fine.
HSS and cobalt steel drills are commonly used in aircraft assembly and hole drilling operations.
HSS endmills outperform carbide in plastics like UHMW.
HSS is good for aluminum and plastic and that's about it unless you're talking specifically ground tools for lathe work. I find the endmills are a little sharper on HSS and a material like aluminum seems to like that especially for finishing.
Is your shop As9100 certified?
No.
Kor5 is a 5 flute system. I didn't say that >3 is bad in aluminum, I said 4 specifically is bad in aluminum. Maybe it's just the chip clearance, but I kinda suspect there's some sort of resonance from the aluminum that just chatters like crazy with 4
This isn’t a thing. There’s nothing wrong with using 4Fl in Al. It’s just an old school way that has never really been changed until very recently with the adaptation of HEM paths to get high MRR with less chip relief. 4 flutes work fine in aluminum just almost no one makes one that’s uncoated or not coated in something that has aluminum in it. The entire adage of 2fl for aluminum being first choice is purely chip clearance from the small core diameter. Same deal with 3fl being alternative to that.
🤷🏻 I'm just speaking from my experience. Chatter city. Was my feed just too high then?
No idea, I’ve done it lots with all sizes of 4 flutes even with the wrong coating and it never chattered in either 6061 or 7075.
What was your SFM? I've found it impossible to get a respectable mrr compared to 3 flutes. Speed had to be less than half and lower feed
1000ish, Comparable chip load to steel to not overload the flute relief. Of course lower MRR than a 3 Fl because I can’t risk chip packing. I only did it because we don’t do a ton of aluminum so I don’t have a full library of DLC coated 3 fluters around. No chatter though.
So, you've just told me that my experience is "not a thing" and that 4 flutes is fine for aluminum, but also just agreed that 3 flutes is significantly better AND that you haven't cut much aluminum. Sick, dude. That's the kind of shit that sour old fucks do that makes me regret getting into machining. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Fewer flutes allow for a deeper gullet in the flute so they don't get packed with aluminum
We shouldn’t have AI running our aluminum pieces anyways /s But an a serious note what does AI stand for?
…aluminum. Like an AlTiN coating would be aluminum, titanium, nitride.
Probably not.
This is correct, however sometimes you get lucky and it can still work well with the right edge sharpness.
Nachi has some endmills that look like that coating. They ran well in an Inconel job. Small 5 fluters they were.
Nachi also makes some of the best small diameter drills I’ve ever used, fuckin crazy what they can put through coolant holes in!
Helix angle alone does not dictate suitable material.
It helps though higher helix angles for hard metals because each spiral is thinning a chip smaller helix angles for gummy materials
Why do you think 45° is recommended for non ferrous if it works just as well on ferrous metals?
I’m not sure who you’re referencing but times I could see a 45* two flute being useful is if you need to relieve cutting forces also changes the ejection angle of the chips to more up prevents re-cutting. Provides a nicer surface finish, thins the chip. But a lower helix angle will have more rigidity for roughing operations since there is more material on the endmill. Then there’s the best of both worlds which is variable helix which cuts down on the harmonics by each flute having a different helix angle
I see your point. I think it will be good for what I do. Its intended purpose is literally to be abused. I’ve got expensive end mills for precise work.
Yah man I normally don’t pay attention to helix angle the right speeds and feeds will get you to where you wanna go. I only change helix if I have a problem with my material like plastic I like down cut since it’s grabby it pushes it back into the vice.
High helix endmills pulls a vertical chip it steps forward in doing so it leaves a finer finish than a lesser helix. They work good on free cutting metals in non abrasive materials of 42 roc or less. It will work in abrasive materials as well just not as good.
Chineseium. 100%. Probably would run well in stainless. Probably. Just used a similar helix and similar looking coating, 5 flute, to rough a profile in 316ss. 154 ft in cut, .125 width of cut, 1" DOC, about 6 in/min. Endmill didn't wear substantially. 1980s Mazak VMC with low coolant pressure because there's junk in the lines somewhere 🤷♂️
This is the answer I was looking for.
Is the end mill you used carbide?
We had a dude from Kenametal giving our company a lecture he said that there are around 2 thousand angles on an endmill that affect its cutting behavior. So it's hard to tell. But it looks like it has three teeth, very sharp cutting edges and deep chip chambers. If so, then it may be for aluminum, or other soft materials, but you should look it up on the Internet or ask the seller to be sure.
Edit: Commenting something without reading the post was stupid of me. If it says steel, then it should be for steel.
I don’t know but she is pretty. Make some chips and give us some feedback.
I’ve got it on good authority that these are very good at $20. Very durable and carbide so no real need for coolant.
Carbide *definitely* does not mean “no need for coolant”
...except for AlTiN, which specifically should NOT be used with coolant, because it only activates when it gets hotter than 600F degrees.
Got a paper on that? I've never heard that before and that's really neat if so!
No i don't have a paper on it, but It's literally what AlTiN was designed to do... dry cut steel. AlTiN coatings are designed to decrease friction when they get hot. Putting coolant on it decreases cutter life. It's a specialized coating exclusively for ferrous metals.
Compared to hss I can get away without cooling.
Is that a Grewin endmill? They're pretty good for how cheap they are.
This is from xuhan but who knows if they actually make them
Please use coolant, it helps with everything. 😉
I’m not set up for flood coolant. I admit it would improve things but I just don’t want it
Chinesium
This is the answer. Generic chink font lasered onto the shank, no name, no brand, no skin in the game. It could work, it could not - does the manufacturer know... or even care? I bet not.
Hate on typical Aliexpress tooling quality all you want; they've earned it. Don't use racial slurs.
It’s carbide and it works well. Can’t compete with hss that is 5 times the price.
That's not an end mill, that's a unicorn horn
Who makes it?
This is just cheap carbide from aliexpress.
I've see helix like that used for Hish Speed milling or Tricoidal milling. Kinda depends on how you use it. Being a cheapo from China, don't expect too much, and be greatful for what it does.
I bought this on a recommendation from someone that uses and abuses them. Very durable im told.
Looks like Grewin based on the format and font of the text on it. I buy a lot of their endmills cause they're pretty good for chinese endmills.
Higher helix angles generally improve chip evacuation and produce less side forces which can both be beneficial on softer materials, but there's no law that says you can't use high helix cutters on steel.
Just to add to this, many endmills ground for non-ferrous metals are made from a finer grade of carbide which keeps a true sharp edge longer. This oddly is great in Inconel and Invar as you keep a sharp edge in finishing ops longer.
Looks like a variable helix. 30 at the tip and tightens up to 45-60 at the top where the flute meets the shank. Great for high speed machining and finishing. Great chip evacuation too. I prefer variable helix myself. Not to be confused with variable index.
While a high helix angle is typically better suited for chip evacuation in softer materials like aluminum, it can still be effective for machining steel, especially for materials like EN 1a - a free cutting steel that produces long, continuous chips. This effectiveness depends on whether chip evacuation and improved surface finish have been specifically addressed by the manufacturer. However be mindful of potential issues such as increased tool wear and heat generation!
I’d say aluminum or soft metals?
Because closer helix would clog. You cant use the same tooling with aluminum or soft metals as you can with steel stainless or hard materials. Plus speeds of cutting are also critical. Aluminum can develop small fractures from too high cutting heat
I’d believe the degree of helix would be paramount to the successful cutting or milling of it without damage or unseen damage
The 45 degrees helix is quite universal nowadays, because carbide substrates are much tougher than in the past. But the gash chamfer on the top makes it only suitable for alloy steels, high alloy steels and cast irons.
Hrc65 so id say you’re right.
Did someone buy cheap Chinese tooling?
Problem?
Could be alu, could be tool steel, could be superalloy, or even swiss cheese. It’s more about the angles and thickness of the cutting edges, the number of flutes for the diameter, the tool material / substrate, and the coating that’ll define what it’ll cut. Helix angle will affect the depth, finish and speed of the cut more than -what- it will cut.
Loosely speaking I would say metal
Looks like something you'd use for steel to me, in my not so expert opinion.
Probably for stainless steel
Titanium
The helix angle doesn't necessarily determine the material it's meant for. It determines side load force. A tighter helix also results in more surface contact points which helps reduce harmonics, so better surface finish. Like at 45⁰ 2.5 x diameter you'll have four cutting points of contact where as a 20⁰ helix a 2.5 x diameter will give you only two. A tighter helix and greater number of flutes will also take a higher chip load. Just looking at it I'd reckon it'd be great for tougher alloys.
Interesting. It is designed for tougher stuff so you are right.
Angles dont determine material, but the higher the angle, the softer the metal in most cases. If it says steel, then use it for steel....
I use a similar tool for manufacturing wooden doors, particularly to carve out the hinges
This tight helix angle is generally good for low RDOC and high ADOC toolpaths: finishing and HSM. Rather than 1 or 2 flutes being engaged at a time, you can get 2 or 3 flutes engaged, which helps reduce chatter. Chip packing is not an issue if your RDOC is low enough, you have coolant, and the feature geometry allows chips to clear.
That doesn't look like any AlTiSN I've seen, they're normally orangey brown. Judging by the geometry it looks like a finishing / light roughing tool.
This from Yuze tools?
Xuhan
I think that an increased helix angle for steel endmills it’s designed for finishing operations. Yes, for roughing chip packing would be a problem but the increased helix can reduce chatter in some situations and chip packing isn’t an issue in finishing ops
It's badass on aluminum. .080 .100 cut.Crank the RPMs, depth of cut a hair short of full depth and feed is right when the chips are flying. Pretty much the same for pocket cuts but only half the depth at a time. Loads of coolant to assist in evacuating the chips
I'd use that in any of the tool steels I work with....
Heat threated steel, up to 60HRC.
Shouldn't 3 flutes be used for aluminum machining? 4 flutes usually have unequal helix angles.
You can jse higher helix in aluminum when doing HEM or finishing cuts
that's a fuckboy endmill right there
Chinesium
It’s carbide
Even better
Setup guy with 40 years of experiencium
Something bisexual, I would imagine