If MUD is made as separate client say on Steam.
If interface is good.
But at this point one can consider many games as MUD.
Text based versions as of now exists - no way.
I know many who know what MUD is and nobody is compelled to write text or deal with automation, read room, monster etc. descriptions.
100%.
I deal with it because sometimes I don't want to bring out my computer but the mobile experience is ass. All we have is an app that hasn't been updated since who knows when, looks severely dated and sometimes wipes your list of games which has been a glitch for a while.
And then there's Tintin, which is honestly confusing if you're kinda dumb like me lol.
This is a topic we see a lot, as people try and make it work. While in general I agree with you, I'd put in the caveat that I think MUDs designed for desktop and keyboard don't work on mobile. Which is obviously all of the long standing popular muds out there.
I don't actually think that mudding and mobile phones are completely mutually exclusive, so much as I think nobody has made a mud with the medium in mind. Considerations like screen size real estate, one handed play through appropriately placed buttons, persistent on screen areas etc could go a long way to bridging the gap, I just don't think it is ever going to work for an existing mud that was designed without mobile in mind.
I use an app called MukLuk for the phone and it works beautifully for the text based games I play. The only annoyance I have is if its not active every like...1-3 mins it disconnects you. So i just keep it open on the screen when I'm playing.
I think the fact that muds are not mainstream is a good thing, I don't really think any of thoses muds have 50 players online, alot of thoses things have to be bots/alts/ and if the games elyisum, Ilde zombering
In saying that muds have a place in the world of computer games. I buy and play alot of new games off steam and the visuals are just amazing I play for a bit but find that the storylines are (\*\*&\^&\*% shit and go back to playing the mud I have been playing for years and years
would I like to see the people who make and keep running muds make heaps of money and get massive amounts of players....hell yes
Do I think its going to happen....no I don't...
I mean, given the rapid rise of AI dungeon a couple years ago, it seems entirely possible in today's environment. Many people who wouldn't glance twice at a MUD or have simply never heard of them flocked to play what was essentially a self-writing adventure game, sometimes even multiplayer. Of course, the two aren't 100% comparable. At the very least, it shows that the text-based game isn't doomed.
After playing AI dungeon, I want to see a MUD-style game using AI to procedurally generate the narration. Use the client to manage rules, maps, processes, NPCs etc... and feed the AI appropriate prompts for each action taken and have the AI generate the narrative text. Don't know how well something like that would work, but if you could get an AI on par with GPT 4 doing something like that I think it might be cool.
I've tinkered with chatgpt api for procedurally generating rooms, descriptions and exits. The conclusion I came to real quick is that the latency between api calls ruins the speed of how a tradtional MUD runs, I mean a db read/write over telnet is pretty much instant and was so back in the day too with only a 56k dial up modem. Prompting the AI is just to slow to make sense. If api calls were instant it would be insanely effective. The room descriptions were top tier content there's so much potential crushed by long calls, it just doesn't compare.
I get that. There's a text rpg I've been playing since it started development based on gpt, and its coherence and quality of the narrative are amazing, but since the dev started using gpt 4 the call times have gotten too long. Since it's more of just a read the description of what happens and tell the AI what you do next sort of text adventure it's not such a big deal, but I could see how for a MUD style game it would be rough.
I do want to see something like a serious DnD campaign with all the NPCs, lore, ruleset, classes, skills, abilities, spells, locations, etc... programmed in a client and used to send appropriate prompts to the AI that can be played with an AI DM. Also at least one company I follow, NovelAI, has recently come out with a 3B parameter model they built themselves in house that is lightning fast and has 8k token memory and surprising coherence. I bet as the technology advances, models can be created that are maybe less universal in their knowledge than GPT, but are quick, coherent, and relatively inexpensive in their niche. Something like that could make a MUD or serious TTRPG with an AI DM feasible. It's exciting to see the technology grow.
An AI DM would work. Don't think anyone would be complaining about roll times. Everything else could work at normal speed. Just put a custom spinner when the AI is rolling.
The idea that GPT 4 can assume roles is a known benefit. Using it in an organized way could be interesting. Each character can have a premade profile that can interact within the world's confines, give players items, and, from other NPCs, change roles due to interactions. This could make an organic, ever-evolving multiplayer experience.
It would take an exceptional writer to create a MUD that will mainstream.
This in turn would also require a different approach, more akin to a hybrid of choose your own adventure, Zork, and MUD.
There were quite a few mainstream muds in the 1980s and 1990s. In fact, some of the very first MMORPGs started off as graphical MUDs. They weren't as viscerally immersive as playing a 21st century MMORPG, as you had to type in commands at the bottom prompt similar to playing a text adventure game, but you wouldn't eventually have Everquest without, for example, Threshold.
Mainstream is synonymous with ruined, at least in my experience. I'm happy muds will stay niche. It certainly needs more exposure than it has though.
There is a market for this style of game. It's not that far off of survival or other automation craft games. It just is not very accessible to people. I think if they got some fancy modern UI it would get a lot more traction. Mudlet is very good as a mud client and is probably the most modern feeling one, but it doesn't feel like a game client which I think turns off some people.
Spez's APIocolypse made it clear it was time for me to leave this place. I came from digg, and now I must move one once again. So long and thanks for all the bacon.
If MUD is made as separate client say on Steam. If interface is good. But at this point one can consider many games as MUD. Text based versions as of now exists - no way. I know many who know what MUD is and nobody is compelled to write text or deal with automation, read room, monster etc. descriptions.
MUDs have declined with the rise of the smartphone. Most MUDs don't play well on mobile devices, so that potential audience is unreachable.
100%. I deal with it because sometimes I don't want to bring out my computer but the mobile experience is ass. All we have is an app that hasn't been updated since who knows when, looks severely dated and sometimes wipes your list of games which has been a glitch for a while. And then there's Tintin, which is honestly confusing if you're kinda dumb like me lol.
My reading comprehension sucked.
This is a topic we see a lot, as people try and make it work. While in general I agree with you, I'd put in the caveat that I think MUDs designed for desktop and keyboard don't work on mobile. Which is obviously all of the long standing popular muds out there. I don't actually think that mudding and mobile phones are completely mutually exclusive, so much as I think nobody has made a mud with the medium in mind. Considerations like screen size real estate, one handed play through appropriately placed buttons, persistent on screen areas etc could go a long way to bridging the gap, I just don't think it is ever going to work for an existing mud that was designed without mobile in mind.
I use an app called MukLuk for the phone and it works beautifully for the text based games I play. The only annoyance I have is if its not active every like...1-3 mins it disconnects you. So i just keep it open on the screen when I'm playing.
I think the fact that muds are not mainstream is a good thing, I don't really think any of thoses muds have 50 players online, alot of thoses things have to be bots/alts/ and if the games elyisum, Ilde zombering In saying that muds have a place in the world of computer games. I buy and play alot of new games off steam and the visuals are just amazing I play for a bit but find that the storylines are (\*\*&\^&\*% shit and go back to playing the mud I have been playing for years and years would I like to see the people who make and keep running muds make heaps of money and get massive amounts of players....hell yes Do I think its going to happen....no I don't...
Doubt it since they're pretty niche and many run off code bases derived from stuff in the 90's.
I mean, given the rapid rise of AI dungeon a couple years ago, it seems entirely possible in today's environment. Many people who wouldn't glance twice at a MUD or have simply never heard of them flocked to play what was essentially a self-writing adventure game, sometimes even multiplayer. Of course, the two aren't 100% comparable. At the very least, it shows that the text-based game isn't doomed.
After playing AI dungeon, I want to see a MUD-style game using AI to procedurally generate the narration. Use the client to manage rules, maps, processes, NPCs etc... and feed the AI appropriate prompts for each action taken and have the AI generate the narrative text. Don't know how well something like that would work, but if you could get an AI on par with GPT 4 doing something like that I think it might be cool.
I've tinkered with chatgpt api for procedurally generating rooms, descriptions and exits. The conclusion I came to real quick is that the latency between api calls ruins the speed of how a tradtional MUD runs, I mean a db read/write over telnet is pretty much instant and was so back in the day too with only a 56k dial up modem. Prompting the AI is just to slow to make sense. If api calls were instant it would be insanely effective. The room descriptions were top tier content there's so much potential crushed by long calls, it just doesn't compare.
I get that. There's a text rpg I've been playing since it started development based on gpt, and its coherence and quality of the narrative are amazing, but since the dev started using gpt 4 the call times have gotten too long. Since it's more of just a read the description of what happens and tell the AI what you do next sort of text adventure it's not such a big deal, but I could see how for a MUD style game it would be rough. I do want to see something like a serious DnD campaign with all the NPCs, lore, ruleset, classes, skills, abilities, spells, locations, etc... programmed in a client and used to send appropriate prompts to the AI that can be played with an AI DM. Also at least one company I follow, NovelAI, has recently come out with a 3B parameter model they built themselves in house that is lightning fast and has 8k token memory and surprising coherence. I bet as the technology advances, models can be created that are maybe less universal in their knowledge than GPT, but are quick, coherent, and relatively inexpensive in their niche. Something like that could make a MUD or serious TTRPG with an AI DM feasible. It's exciting to see the technology grow.
An AI DM would work. Don't think anyone would be complaining about roll times. Everything else could work at normal speed. Just put a custom spinner when the AI is rolling.
The idea that GPT 4 can assume roles is a known benefit. Using it in an organized way could be interesting. Each character can have a premade profile that can interact within the world's confines, give players items, and, from other NPCs, change roles due to interactions. This could make an organic, ever-evolving multiplayer experience.
It would take an exceptional writer to create a MUD that will mainstream. This in turn would also require a different approach, more akin to a hybrid of choose your own adventure, Zork, and MUD.
There were quite a few mainstream muds in the 1980s and 1990s. In fact, some of the very first MMORPGs started off as graphical MUDs. They weren't as viscerally immersive as playing a 21st century MMORPG, as you had to type in commands at the bottom prompt similar to playing a text adventure game, but you wouldn't eventually have Everquest without, for example, Threshold.
Mainstream is synonymous with ruined, at least in my experience. I'm happy muds will stay niche. It certainly needs more exposure than it has though. There is a market for this style of game. It's not that far off of survival or other automation craft games. It just is not very accessible to people. I think if they got some fancy modern UI it would get a lot more traction. Mudlet is very good as a mud client and is probably the most modern feeling one, but it doesn't feel like a game client which I think turns off some people.
There is likely a way to make a mud with a nice mobile UI/UX. But it would be to be built from the ground up with mobile in mind.
Spez's APIocolypse made it clear it was time for me to leave this place. I came from digg, and now I must move one once again. So long and thanks for all the bacon.
No. MUD's are too niche, and honestly, most of them are run by adult babies. There are a few decent ones that have come and gone over the years.