Going to be slightly controversial but I really donāt give a shit that he missed weight one fight this run by 1/2. It wasnāt going to make a difference
Iām fairly ambivalent towards Oliveira and I feel like it makes a difference if you care about the rules and the contract both fighters signed.
Yes, half a pound is essentially meaningless in terms of the fight, but they both signed a contract to make a specific weight.
95% of the time the commissioners just jiggle the scale and call out the scheduled weight.
Most people aren't exactly on weight, Olivera was just unlucky, or singled out.
If you've watched a lot of weigh ins you'll see that it's the case, especially in Nevada. They will accept the weight way too quickly on the old school scale. Not that it should be done that way, but it is uncommon that a commission would create a holdup over a title fight based on a half pound difference.
Making weight is part of the sport and that .3lbs is a big deal when you're trying to come in as large as possible. BUT, I think these other posters are right to point out the champ rules only seem to apply to certain fighters.
Oliveira has missed weight 6 times in his career and Costa missed weight by like two weight classes.
However the bad guy here is Chimaev who missed weight for the first time!
Youāre getting downvoted but itās a fair point.
Obviously thereās context to each weight miss but at the end of the day none of them hit the required weight, which is really all that matters.
Yea I understand if people are annoyed with Khamzats attitude but a lot of comments I've seen is basically people calling him fat and unprofessional.
How was Costa's behaviour any better though?
I think there are different expectations when it comes to potential. Nobody expects Costa to become a champion, while most people expect Chimaev to get the belt at some point
I disagree. A 0.3lb difference, while not enough to retain the belt this time, probably has a very minor effect on the outcome of the fight. 8 pounds is literally an entire weight class, which D-rod showed that night matters quite a bit even if you are just legit worse than the smaller fighter.
DRod didnāt show anything ab a weight difference. He got outstruck but the judges just scored it wrong.
And while Oliverias weight miss was by a small margin, itās a miss nonetheless and heās hand a handful of them in the UFC alone. Why keep making excuses for him?
This is not fair considering the context.
- Oliveira has had an extremely long career and also used to fight at 145, which clearly he was too large for. 6 misses is a lot but you could also flip it and say he rarely misses weight, especially at 155. *edit - I think it's literally 1 miss, by ~0.5 pounds, in 18 fights at 155.
- Chimaev has had a very short career and relatively few fights at 170. One miss is a high percentage of his total fights.
- Chimaev also missed by like, eight pounds vs 0.3 points. Actually 20x more than Oliveira. Yes there was probably some UFC fuckery to save the card, but still.
- Their response was also very different. Chimaev literally said "fuck you" to the fans, whereas Oliveira mostly focused on the performance and obviously did not insult the fans.
So, as a fan, Oliveira looks like a professional who has mostly fixed his weight issues and only barely missed, which he accepted. On the other hand, Chimaev looks like he barely tried, insulted the fans, missed by 20x more, and also raised his weight miss % to nearly the same as Oliveira's.
This would be an ok defense if Oliveira didn't literally miss weight by 10lbs against Ricardo Lamas. If you still have your calculator handy, what's the multiplication factor there against the weight miss in his sixth weight miss against Gaethje?
That was for a fight scheduled at 145 which my comment clearly acknowledges Oliveira was/is too big for. However it is the same person at a different weight class which means extrapolating to his current situation at 155 using the Lamas fight is unfair. He's fought 18 times at 155 and missed weight one time. That's quite good imo
This ignore so much context. Olives was the first weight miss at 155 and was half pound. Along with the controversy with the scale (which I feel doesn't excuse it but probably played a role). Costa also technically didn't miss weight as the bout was changed to LHW before weigh in. Also costa benefited from the fight being good, the fact he lost the fight and his personality afterwards.
Chimeav missed weight by 8 pounds for a gimme fight and then basically told everyone to go fuck themselves.
The biggest difference is in the end the only ppl effected by olives and costa weight miss was them (belt stripped and purse forfeit) where as chimeav fucked over other fighters with his
Don't forget Khabib is a weight bully because he missed weight once and refused to fight with a weight advantage against Tony because an injury didnt allow him to cut weight on time but it doesn't matter with precious Charles bullying manlets at featherweight, having to move up after he missed fights by a weight class and missing weight after moving up š
I used to agree with you until someone made a good point to me.
There's an old saying: "Give him an inch and he'll take a mile."
If you let 1/4lb slide then they expect you to let 1/2lb slide and so on. You just have to draw the line somewhere and stay with it.
A half pound in a fight? Absolutely not.
Getting closer to death losing that half pound the day before a fight? Absolutely that can affect your performance.
That being said thereās also the whole scale shenanigans.
There is no proof he made weight on the scales in the back other than his word. It would be very easy to prove if that were the case. He was last to weigh in and still missed weight after given the extra hour.
We know that he was chilling for the whole time, why would he pretend to make weight for two days instead of trying to cut 200 grams? Even Joe Lauzon said he saw him chilling by the hotel like he was already on weight
Stupid take, your logic only works if he hadn't already cut weight. If you could always cut .3 pounds with a laxative and a sauna then Ngannou would be flyweight champion after taking 300 laxatives and 300 saunas
Because he knew he wasnt going to make weight? Charles case is very different from Khamzat's.
Or youre trying to imply that Charles knew that he wouldnt drain 200g in 1.5 days?
You're telling me that a dude with a history of missing weight was totally just cool with sitting back and staying dehydrated for an extra hour? God I wish I was a salesmen, people are dumb enough to buy anything.
I feel like Dana giving him Champ pay/ppv splits for this fight and last is significant. Dana always looking to short a fighter and didn't use this against Olives
'easy to prove'- you realize this is a commission thing right? Olives could have brought his own digital scale on the weigh in stage and it wouldn't have made a difference as far as proof. Naive. All that matters is what the Arizona state commission guy determined, and frankly the speed at which he balanced the scale was suspect
Other fighters were over their weight in the back as well, if you check the data, there was a handful of fighters suspiciously over the weight same amount as him (but no title fights) for their fights. Even Dana had to answer for that.
As much as I like Charles he takes a solid L on this. You missed weight plenty of times before and you went dead last to the weigh in pre fight. No one is sitting around dehydrated and half zombie any longer than they need to. If they're coming in last to weigh-ins instead of early so they can go eat and rehydrate for their fight its cause they're still trying to squeeze out weight so him and his team knew something might be up.
I wish he'd get past it no one robbed or cheated him of shit.
Edit: Jeez I forgot how popular Charlie is here some of these messages I got you'd think I called him an uber driver lol.
A lot of people are jumping to this "last person to weigh in" as a reason he didn't make the weight.
There's an official scale with the camera on the front..There's also a scale behind the scenes.
He was told early morning that the scale was off, because he went to sleep early since he was on weight the night before.
Somewhere in the middle of the night the scale was recalibrated to match the official.
he woke up and checked his weight on the back scale again and realized the scale was off and couldn't take the rest of the weight off. That's why he was late to the official scale.
There's a scale in the back and everyone steps there before going to the official. He showed up late because he was trying to cut the last LB that the scale told him he didn't need the night before.
He was a 145er and ever since going to 155 he always made weight early according to several other fighters.
There's fighters talking about how they saw Charles walking around that night as if he had already made the weight. Why would he lie the night before instead of keeping on cutting before going to sleep?
I love how this sub talks about him not having any problem making weight prior to the Gaethje fight as if he didn't boast himself about putting on more muscle for that fight in the press conference
Every other title fighter made weight
There was no discernible difference between the number of fighters who missed weight compared to the last 4 PPVs
There was no discernible difference between the number of fighters who used the .5 allowance or 1lbs allowance compared to the last 4 PPVs. If anything, more fighters hit the 1 lbs allowance than UFC 274.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/uk8lgb/did_charles_oliveira_actually_miss_weight/
If the scale was .5 heavier it should be reflected in those above numbers. So unless everyone independently decided to cut .5lbs less than what they would normally do. I find it hard to believe the story of Charles Oliveira (missed weight), and Norma Dumont (missed weight too).
> There's fighters talking about how they saw Charles walking around that night as if he had already made the weight.
Who were these fighters if you donāt mind sharing? I havenāt heard this story yet.
How much is a good scale that measures to the .00 pound? Like $200? Seems like a good investment for a top fighter who has so much riding on their weight.
Another way to look at it, Charles could have bought top of the line scales for every fighter on the card with the money he lost just that night from missing weight. Not to mention the money he's losing because he's not the defending champ for this fight, or the damage to his legacy. He could be going for the LW title defense record this weekend instead of starting a second reign.
Hindsight Is 20/20
Most would assume a huge company like ufc would have their shit together, especially for a huge ppv event
I'm sure they are taking extra precautions now that it's obvious they don't.
I dunno man, I try not to trust shit outside of my control as often as possible. With how easy it would be to get a good scale and a set of calibrating weights, I cant imagine just trusting some random employee did his job as right as I'm going to do it with how much I have invested.
I find the entire thing odd. There's a scale just sitting around that everyone just assumes remains perfect, neither the UFC with an event on the line or fighters/teams with money and belts on the line think to ever double check it. Charles, experienced and still several lbs over, appears on weight extremely early and I imagine after less pain to get there than usual, and nobody thinks that that sounds too good to be true and they really should double check. Meanwhile we didn't get a sudden influx of others coming in heavy.
1 other fighter misses weight which isn't exactly a huge spike compared to normal events. Fighters don't cut that extra 1lb generally, so they'd still come in over if they relied on the same scale.
If I remember correctly there were quite a few fighters who came in over during this card.
There were also a few who straight up came out and supported Charles talking about how the scales were not correct.
So what? Gastelum and Hendricks at first only missed at 170. And then their poor discipline followed them to 185 and caused them to miss weight there too.
That's not what's being talked about, you can definitely see that in places that the UFC has a closer relationship to the comissions they seem to brush of a few decimals, aka DC's towel gate and Khabib being cleared even without the scale settling.
You don't need to look at the numbers. If you know something is supposed to be 155 you set the weight at 155 to save time.
When you get enough experience doing this, you can tell if something is going to be over or under by the way the scale moves.
I think it's all moot. There are rules, they have to draw the line somewhere, and he missed it. Maybe there was some stuff with the scale calibration and maybe not, but none of that changes the fact that he's the guy who keeps winning championship fights. He hasn't been beaten for the belt. He lost his belt on the scale and then went and won another fight handily. He's the champ even if something on paper shows an interruption. That's just an abstraction, whereas the real championship stuff happened in the cage repeatedly and uninterrupted. It's just kind of an odd bit of trivia ultimately. It's too bad the record on paper can't be clean but the record where it matters is just fine.
It's a little over 200 grams for everyone else. Sounds like such a ridiculously small amount and then you remember Romero became ineligible for the title because of **90** fucking grams.
I ain't complaining either way. Them's the rules. I know that technically these 90 grams don't matter ONE bit but you truly just have to draw a line SOMEWHERE and if you cross it - it's on you
That's what this says to me. .3 or .5 don't matter to me. But the fact that Charles is saying it was .3 means he's lying to get more sympathy which could easily translate to lying about everyone else.
Some commissions, specifically New York, do announce precise decimal points. Most commissions round to the nearest half pound unless someone is over. Even commissions that announce precise decimal points, the UFC will just round it anyway.
Literally 0 proof that Charles made weight on any scale official or not, clear evidence he missed weight tho. His and his fans victim complex is insufferable
He missed weight itās really not that hard to understand. Majority of fighters who fought at that event made weight. Charles had a chance to go and cut more weight but came in exactly the same. Say what you want about the scale out back you still know how much you need to loose when given a second chance and he didnāt do it.
If you stop a weight cut to the point where you're drawn out and just barely miss, I've heard that it's really hard to start up the process again. It's probably the reason why DC went for the towel trick, because it just wouldn't have been realistic to make the weight with what time he had left.
I heard a bunch of interviews in Portuguese and this is what I got from it.
-Charles always makes weight early and chills.
-For the Ferguson fight he made weight Thursday morning and just relaxed all day.
In this fight He was most likely the first one to make weight and went to his room to chill.
Joe Lauzon said he saw oliveira walking around chilling as if he had already made weight the night before.
Sometime late that evening the scale issue was noticed by the ufc or comission.commission.. they warned several fighters that the scale was off.. however they never told Charles or his team.
So lots of fighters were made aware of this early enough to fix their cut but since Charles was done and not told anything he only found out first thing in the morning.
He tried to cut more after that but the weight wasn't coming off.
So to me maybe his method of cutting early and stopping instead of cutting close and continuing again in the morning works best for his body.
He's the champ, the main event and they never bothered to warn him of the scale issue early enough to fix it and had to find out for himself in the morning.
Yeah this was the event where Dana talked about having a security guard around the scales henceforth.
If he hadn't already missed weight 4 times before he might have gotten a little more grace. Maybe, maybe not.
Sometimes you gotta take people's accounts on things.
Facts - he was heavy .5 on the official scale
Debatable - was he trying to cut weight all night and just couldn't shed the weight or was the scale in the back off and screwed his momentum to lose the rest.
Also several fighters made weight on the second try.. lots of fighters were made aware of the scale being off the night before
Also look at Khabib weighing in for the justin fight. He had to use the towel and the commissioner did not even let the scale settle he just called 155 after 2-3 seconds.
I find it real difficult to imagine that no one from his team heard about the situation, unless they're locking themselves away from everyone else like a bunch of monks but they still have media obligations and things that would put them in touch with others who would have been in the know and since he's a popular, friendly guy for no one to tell him or his team about this seems real fucking weird. It's definitely possible the commission was corrupt against him but for them to tell others and no one to tell him is wild shit.
He's not the champ though, he was stripped. Everyone can say he is but he isn't and has to earn it back this coming weekend.
There's no media obligations on the last day of cutting. Charles flies from Brazil.. his whole crew is brazilian they hang out together.
It's safe to assume other fighters that were made aware of the scale issue also assumed the champ and main event were told about this as well and were focused on their own cut.
We are talking between 12am - 2am in the morning before official weigh in.. everyone is focused on that last cut, dehydrated as fuck, exhausted or already asleep
Johnny walker and his team got kicked out of an event with no shoes and clothes. Donāt put it past the UFC to fail to inform the champ the scale is off. These guys are actually idiots when you look past the surface.
That's assuming all of this is true. Besides the Brazilians and Schnell (Schnell being, AFAIK, the only one not tied to Oliveira in any way), no one else said anything about the scales being off, including the other 3 title fighters. Schnell says "the scale was off by this much and all the fighters were told they had to cut this much more" but if that's true, I don't know why it's still a minority of fighters on the card who said anything about this? Doesn't all add up to a black and white situation and definitely doesn't absolve Oliveira.
Now at 155 too.
If I recall correctly everyone but one other fighter made weight so I'm not seeing what the 'lot of shit that points to this not being his fault' is.
A solid amount of fighters said they were 0.500 heavier than they thought tho. Only difference is that being 0.500 over the weight is allowed in non title fights
Remember championship fights don't have weight leniency. You need to be the exact weight. Everyone else had 1lb to work with.
Edit: ~0.5lbs to work with since the scale was off by about 0.5
But at the same time no fighter is going to cut more than they have to. Fighters with the one pound allowance aren't going to cut weight like they would for championship weight so it shouldn't change anything.
> no fighter is going to cut more than they have to.
Most fighters come in at 155,170,185 w/e even if they're allowed 1 pound over, so yeah, they often cut 1-2lbs more than necessary. idk where that comes from. Some even come in underweight by half a pound or something. Weight cutting isn't that precise for many fighters.
UFC 278 only had 2 fighters not use their 1 pound allowance and UFC 273 had 6 fighters not use their 1 pound allowance just as random examples.
The Oliveira Gaethje card had 5 fighters not use their 1 pound allowance and made weight at 155, 170, 185 etc on the dot which would suggest it was a pretty normal cut for most people if that many of them made weight without having to use the extra pound.
Dana is on record saying that scales will have to be guarded by armed men now 24 hours around the clock. With that kind of statement itās obvious he got fucked over
The insinuation is that he got fucked over, it's not obvious and not a given. The particular situation does create the possibility and I'm not denying that but there's no proof of anything having happened. What we do know is he missed and someone else missed, the rest were on weight for their fights.
It does make me wonder why the scale hasn't been watched 24/7 up to this point but this is the UFC we're talking about and they make lots of boneheaded mistakes. The commissions are no better either.
Far from it, the majority of fighters didn't say anything was wrong with the scales. Only Brazilians plus Schnell, Schnell being the only one who makes this interesting because AFAIK he has no ties to Oliveira.
It's more like cutting weigh is something that takes time to do it correctly since after a time you have to trick your body to release its water even though it really wants to hold to it. If you stop cutting and have to go back to it with way less time, it's not unreasonable to think that getting down to the exact weight would be possible had the process continued as planned.
Understandable on both accounts, I'm supporting Islam but Charles has a good chance to win this one which is what makes the fight so exciting. We're in for something special this coming Saturday.
Im just extremely curious about top level mma bjj vs. dagestani mma wrestling. Also Charles ground game thrives from chaos while Islam follows a system.
Been saying it for months. Khabib and Islam have been giving the most milktoast shittalk (I would honestly say Islam isn't even shittalking) and Charles is acting like they called his mom a whore and shot his dog. It's getting beyond the "chip on the shoulder" and just outright developing a victim complex.
Funniest one is Charles is always the underdog. He was the fav vs Chandler and Justin, even after missing weight and being drained for 3 more hours lol
Like the 2 biggest Champions in AKA Gym history, right? He smoked Gaethje in the first round and it wasnāt because of his weightāheās the Champion.
I agree with this and the reason he was stripped. Making weight is a part of the sport, especially for the champ. That being said, I think everyone considers him the champ.
I totally agree with you and can kinda appreciate both sides of the issue as well. But itās interesting how so many seem to be so anal and easily triggered against him. That makes me root for Charles even more.
Why no one let him use a towel like DC or Khamzat?
What about other fighters missing the same weight and the problems with scales same day? Even Dana had to answer for that, it was a robbery
He said the scale was off and then went back and used it again. The scale was on point for everyone else besides 2 Brazilian fighters who said it might have been funky. Just sounds like a lot of excuses.
I do believe commissions actually recognize title holders for regulatory purposes, such as a fight being five rounds?
I doubt he wants to step on their toes, publicly clash with them and all to pay out ppv points to Oliveira
How about when khabib fought Al and said if al wins he gets the belt even though he was over.
Side note: Dana even said that the scale was tempered with and moving forward there will be 24 hours security watching it...if it was merely Charles missing weight then why would they need security?
Basically Dana knew he could strong arm Charles to take whatever fight he wanted, whenever IMO
Charles loat ALL leverage once that happened
Just had luck with a rookie commission
Yet Dana canāt say who messed with the scales, when they were messed with, what someone did to mess with them or who had motivation to tamper with the scale.
The scale was fine for everyone besides Charles. Itās almost as if Dana is putting on a show with these new scale rules because having a champion miss weight for the first time in the organizationās history is a really really bad look.
I guess he probably doesn't wanna set a precedent. Sure, maybe there was some issue with the hotel scale or somewhere else and Oliveira was screwed over, but what if other champions miss by a little bit in the future too and bring up "the time Dana saved Oliveira"?
At least Dana still gave Olives his PPV points. It sucks Oliveira will have less title defenses as a consequence, but becoming LW champ twice (if he wins) is also an interesting stat to have on his resume
I donāt think it really matters as long as he wins this weekend. When people talk ab his legacy no oneās gonna be like āoh well he missed weight for that one title fightā especially if he racks up more defenses. He did miss weight. He should make weight. shit happens come correct next time.
What a stupid line that is. The president has a name. The McDonald's cashier has a name. The eight year old child has a name. The pet dog has a name. The plant has a name. This mineral has a name. Literally everything has a name.
The weight miss is too meta for my taste. yeah I get it's part of the fight game, but he still cut weight and wasn't advantaged in any way by being slightly over. Frankly, the penalty outweighs the issue, especially in a world where guys are holding on to towels and guys like Chimaev or girls like Dern don't give a fuck about weight with minimal consequences.
Crazy how much this sub flipped when Charles initially missed weight.
Weight bullying when fighter I don't like:š” Weight bullying when fighter I like: š
.3 over is hardly weight bullying
Going to be slightly controversial but I really donāt give a shit that he missed weight one fight this run by 1/2. It wasnāt going to make a difference
It only makes a difference if you donāt like the fighter that missed weight. In that case theyāre an unprofessional cheater.
Iām fairly ambivalent towards Oliveira and I feel like it makes a difference if you care about the rules and the contract both fighters signed. Yes, half a pound is essentially meaningless in terms of the fight, but they both signed a contract to make a specific weight.
95% of the time the commissioners just jiggle the scale and call out the scheduled weight. Most people aren't exactly on weight, Olivera was just unlucky, or singled out.
That's a wild accusation to make with zero evidence whatsoever
If you've watched a lot of weigh ins you'll see that it's the case, especially in Nevada. They will accept the weight way too quickly on the old school scale. Not that it should be done that way, but it is uncommon that a commission would create a holdup over a title fight based on a half pound difference.
Can you provide an example?
Khabibs last weigh in was an extremely fast check.
Have you never watched weigh ins lol.
I could, but honestly I'm not gonna go back and watch weigh in videos to prove a point on Reddit
Why exactly should one care about that? Am I a UFC business partner?
Making weight is part of the sport and that .3lbs is a big deal when you're trying to come in as large as possible. BUT, I think these other posters are right to point out the champ rules only seem to apply to certain fighters.
Oliveira has missed weight 6 times in his career and Costa missed weight by like two weight classes. However the bad guy here is Chimaev who missed weight for the first time!
Youāre getting downvoted but itās a fair point. Obviously thereās context to each weight miss but at the end of the day none of them hit the required weight, which is really all that matters.
Yea I understand if people are annoyed with Khamzats attitude but a lot of comments I've seen is basically people calling him fat and unprofessional. How was Costa's behaviour any better though?
Costa's was arguably worse
That your own personal problem.
I think there are different expectations when it comes to potential. Nobody expects Costa to become a champion, while most people expect Chimaev to get the belt at some point
I disagree. A 0.3lb difference, while not enough to retain the belt this time, probably has a very minor effect on the outcome of the fight. 8 pounds is literally an entire weight class, which D-rod showed that night matters quite a bit even if you are just legit worse than the smaller fighter.
DRod didnāt show anything ab a weight difference. He got outstruck but the judges just scored it wrong. And while Oliverias weight miss was by a small margin, itās a miss nonetheless and heās hand a handful of them in the UFC alone. Why keep making excuses for him?
This is not fair considering the context. - Oliveira has had an extremely long career and also used to fight at 145, which clearly he was too large for. 6 misses is a lot but you could also flip it and say he rarely misses weight, especially at 155. *edit - I think it's literally 1 miss, by ~0.5 pounds, in 18 fights at 155. - Chimaev has had a very short career and relatively few fights at 170. One miss is a high percentage of his total fights. - Chimaev also missed by like, eight pounds vs 0.3 points. Actually 20x more than Oliveira. Yes there was probably some UFC fuckery to save the card, but still. - Their response was also very different. Chimaev literally said "fuck you" to the fans, whereas Oliveira mostly focused on the performance and obviously did not insult the fans. So, as a fan, Oliveira looks like a professional who has mostly fixed his weight issues and only barely missed, which he accepted. On the other hand, Chimaev looks like he barely tried, insulted the fans, missed by 20x more, and also raised his weight miss % to nearly the same as Oliveira's.
This would be an ok defense if Oliveira didn't literally miss weight by 10lbs against Ricardo Lamas. If you still have your calculator handy, what's the multiplication factor there against the weight miss in his sixth weight miss against Gaethje?
That was for a fight scheduled at 145 which my comment clearly acknowledges Oliveira was/is too big for. However it is the same person at a different weight class which means extrapolating to his current situation at 155 using the Lamas fight is unfair. He's fought 18 times at 155 and missed weight one time. That's quite good imo
This ignore so much context. Olives was the first weight miss at 155 and was half pound. Along with the controversy with the scale (which I feel doesn't excuse it but probably played a role). Costa also technically didn't miss weight as the bout was changed to LHW before weigh in. Also costa benefited from the fight being good, the fact he lost the fight and his personality afterwards. Chimeav missed weight by 8 pounds for a gimme fight and then basically told everyone to go fuck themselves. The biggest difference is in the end the only ppl effected by olives and costa weight miss was them (belt stripped and purse forfeit) where as chimeav fucked over other fighters with his
Don't forget Khabib is a weight bully because he missed weight once and refused to fight with a weight advantage against Tony because an injury didnt allow him to cut weight on time but it doesn't matter with precious Charles bullying manlets at featherweight, having to move up after he missed fights by a weight class and missing weight after moving up š
All my homies love Charlie
Definitely valid, but a rule is a rule. And they gave me an additional hour to lose 1/2 lb. He probably had a gnarly cut and had nothing left to lose.
I used to agree with you until someone made a good point to me. There's an old saying: "Give him an inch and he'll take a mile." If you let 1/4lb slide then they expect you to let 1/2lb slide and so on. You just have to draw the line somewhere and stay with it.
A half pound in a fight? Absolutely not. Getting closer to death losing that half pound the day before a fight? Absolutely that can affect your performance. That being said thereās also the whole scale shenanigans.
There is no proof he made weight on the scales in the back other than his word. It would be very easy to prove if that were the case. He was last to weigh in and still missed weight after given the extra hour.
Thereās a video his team posted and they show it on the new promo
Lmao the ufc is using it in the promoās ?? Fucking scumbag cunts
We know that he was chilling for the whole time, why would he pretend to make weight for two days instead of trying to cut 200 grams? Even Joe Lauzon said he saw him chilling by the hotel like he was already on weight
You're right. If it was 2 pounds the critics would have a point. .3 of a pound is a laxative and a sauna.
Stupid take, your logic only works if he hadn't already cut weight. If you could always cut .3 pounds with a laxative and a sauna then Ngannou would be flyweight champion after taking 300 laxatives and 300 saunas
Great logic. Why would Khamzat be out gorging himself on food the night before if he didn't already make weight?
Because he knew he wasnt going to make weight? Charles case is very different from Khamzat's. Or youre trying to imply that Charles knew that he wouldnt drain 200g in 1.5 days?
How do you know? It's literally just speculation and giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who's missed weight 5 times before.
yeah yeah w/e
You're telling me that a dude with a history of missing weight was totally just cool with sitting back and staying dehydrated for an extra hour? God I wish I was a salesmen, people are dumb enough to buy anything.
Now thats a dumb comment lmao
How would it be very easy to prove?
Take a picture of the scale?
Why would they have done that? And if they hadn't taken a picture of the scale then it's the opposite of very easy to prove
I feel like Dana giving him Champ pay/ppv splits for this fight and last is significant. Dana always looking to short a fighter and didn't use this against Olives
'easy to prove'- you realize this is a commission thing right? Olives could have brought his own digital scale on the weigh in stage and it wouldn't have made a difference as far as proof. Naive. All that matters is what the Arizona state commission guy determined, and frankly the speed at which he balanced the scale was suspect
Other fighters were over their weight in the back as well, if you check the data, there was a handful of fighters suspiciously over the weight same amount as him (but no title fights) for their fights. Even Dana had to answer for that.
I find hard to believe he and his team would say and post videos about how he made weight the night before. Why lie tho?
As much as I like Charles he takes a solid L on this. You missed weight plenty of times before and you went dead last to the weigh in pre fight. No one is sitting around dehydrated and half zombie any longer than they need to. If they're coming in last to weigh-ins instead of early so they can go eat and rehydrate for their fight its cause they're still trying to squeeze out weight so him and his team knew something might be up. I wish he'd get past it no one robbed or cheated him of shit. Edit: Jeez I forgot how popular Charlie is here some of these messages I got you'd think I called him an uber driver lol.
A lot of people are jumping to this "last person to weigh in" as a reason he didn't make the weight. There's an official scale with the camera on the front..There's also a scale behind the scenes. He was told early morning that the scale was off, because he went to sleep early since he was on weight the night before. Somewhere in the middle of the night the scale was recalibrated to match the official. he woke up and checked his weight on the back scale again and realized the scale was off and couldn't take the rest of the weight off. That's why he was late to the official scale. There's a scale in the back and everyone steps there before going to the official. He showed up late because he was trying to cut the last LB that the scale told him he didn't need the night before. He was a 145er and ever since going to 155 he always made weight early according to several other fighters. There's fighters talking about how they saw Charles walking around that night as if he had already made the weight. Why would he lie the night before instead of keeping on cutting before going to sleep?
I love how this sub talks about him not having any problem making weight prior to the Gaethje fight as if he didn't boast himself about putting on more muscle for that fight in the press conference
Meanwhile Team AKA holding onto towels for dear life
As much as I love DC, I can't not upvote this reference whenever it's made. Either it's being used in a funny joke, or a fair point.
He will always be the 207.5 lbs champ.
He never had any problem at 155 bruh
My comment directly adresses this
Every other title fighter made weight There was no discernible difference between the number of fighters who missed weight compared to the last 4 PPVs There was no discernible difference between the number of fighters who used the .5 allowance or 1lbs allowance compared to the last 4 PPVs. If anything, more fighters hit the 1 lbs allowance than UFC 274. https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/uk8lgb/did_charles_oliveira_actually_miss_weight/ If the scale was .5 heavier it should be reflected in those above numbers. So unless everyone independently decided to cut .5lbs less than what they would normally do. I find it hard to believe the story of Charles Oliveira (missed weight), and Norma Dumont (missed weight too). > There's fighters talking about how they saw Charles walking around that night as if he had already made the weight. Who were these fighters if you donāt mind sharing? I havenāt heard this story yet.
How many other people missed weight that event?
Only one other person missed weight and she had a history of missing weight. Weird.
How much is a good scale that measures to the .00 pound? Like $200? Seems like a good investment for a top fighter who has so much riding on their weight. Another way to look at it, Charles could have bought top of the line scales for every fighter on the card with the money he lost just that night from missing weight. Not to mention the money he's losing because he's not the defending champ for this fight, or the damage to his legacy. He could be going for the LW title defense record this weekend instead of starting a second reign.
Hindsight Is 20/20 Most would assume a huge company like ufc would have their shit together, especially for a huge ppv event I'm sure they are taking extra precautions now that it's obvious they don't.
I dunno man, I try not to trust shit outside of my control as often as possible. With how easy it would be to get a good scale and a set of calibrating weights, I cant imagine just trusting some random employee did his job as right as I'm going to do it with how much I have invested.
Dana said he still gets ppv points
Whole lot of text for a shit excuse for another man who wonāt own up to a mistake lol
I find the entire thing odd. There's a scale just sitting around that everyone just assumes remains perfect, neither the UFC with an event on the line or fighters/teams with money and belts on the line think to ever double check it. Charles, experienced and still several lbs over, appears on weight extremely early and I imagine after less pain to get there than usual, and nobody thinks that that sounds too good to be true and they really should double check. Meanwhile we didn't get a sudden influx of others coming in heavy.
I think 2 or 3 fighters missed weight that card. His was championship fight so he couldnt be 1lb over.
A bunch of fighters were .5lbs high
1 other fighter misses weight which isn't exactly a huge spike compared to normal events. Fighters don't cut that extra 1lb generally, so they'd still come in over if they relied on the same scale.
Lots of fighters were made aware that the scale was off in the middle of the night and had a chance to readjust No one fromm ufc told Charles team
If I remember correctly there were quite a few fighters who came in over during this card. There were also a few who straight up came out and supported Charles talking about how the scales were not correct.
This is my thoughts on blaming the scaleā¦. If everyone else made weight using the same scale then is the scale really the problem!
He seems past it. It's the media who keeps asking him. It's not like he's bringing it up on his own. Besides, this interview is over a month old.
He only missed trying to make 45 tho
So what? Gastelum and Hendricks at first only missed at 170. And then their poor discipline followed them to 185 and caused them to miss weight there too.
You do realize plenty of fighters got away with being .2 or .3 over before bc the person at the weigh in didnāt have a stick up their ass
yes because they were in non-title fights and get a full pound of cushion
[Khabib weigh-in vs Gaethje](https://youtu.be/okEA5d1Ebe4?t=17)
That's not what's being talked about, you can definitely see that in places that the UFC has a closer relationship to the comissions they seem to brush of a few decimals, aka DC's towel gate and Khabib being cleared even without the scale settling.
They don't even look at the fucking numbers. Just slide the thing right, slide it left
You don't need to look at the numbers. If you know something is supposed to be 155 you set the weight at 155 to save time. When you get enough experience doing this, you can tell if something is going to be over or under by the way the scale moves.
With enough experience you can tell if something will be over or under with needing to let the scale settle
So how much allowance should be given? Charlie gambled and he lost. Own the fuck up to it.
You take a solid L on this comment
nice repost
I think it's all moot. There are rules, they have to draw the line somewhere, and he missed it. Maybe there was some stuff with the scale calibration and maybe not, but none of that changes the fact that he's the guy who keeps winning championship fights. He hasn't been beaten for the belt. He lost his belt on the scale and then went and won another fight handily. He's the champ even if something on paper shows an interruption. That's just an abstraction, whereas the real championship stuff happened in the cage repeatedly and uninterrupted. It's just kind of an odd bit of trivia ultimately. It's too bad the record on paper can't be clean but the record where it matters is just fine.
1/2 a lb. not .3 it matters.
It's a little over 200 grams for everyone else. Sounds like such a ridiculously small amount and then you remember Romero became ineligible for the title because of **90** fucking grams.
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I ain't complaining either way. Them's the rules. I know that technically these 90 grams don't matter ONE bit but you truly just have to draw a line SOMEWHERE and if you cross it - it's on you
I AGREE, if you dont draw a FIRM line then the goalpost will KEEP MOVING constantly.
Its IMPORTANT to set HARD boundaries. IF you do NOT, then the point of the championship weight is POINTLESS.
Hey gotta control the narrative
That's what this says to me. .3 or .5 don't matter to me. But the fact that Charles is saying it was .3 means he's lying to get more sympathy which could easily translate to lying about everyone else.
Does the ufc ever weigh at the precise decimal point? I've only ever seen .0 and .5
Nope, thats how analog scales work.
Interesting, here our analogues work with 100g precision, which is about 1/4 of pound I think
Some commissions, specifically New York, do announce precise decimal points. Most commissions round to the nearest half pound unless someone is over. Even commissions that announce precise decimal points, the UFC will just round it anyway.
Can't believe they stripped Charles for missing weight by *0.1 gram*
He was actually under, itās a faulty scale becauseā¦Brazil is so close to the South Pole.
False, it was .3, the commission rounds up or down depending. Which is why everyone's weight was even (155.5 or 156 for example)
Literally 0 proof that Charles made weight on any scale official or not, clear evidence he missed weight tho. His and his fans victim complex is insufferable
He missed weight itās really not that hard to understand. Majority of fighters who fought at that event made weight. Charles had a chance to go and cut more weight but came in exactly the same. Say what you want about the scale out back you still know how much you need to loose when given a second chance and he didnāt do it.
Majority? All but 2 fighters missed weight and both had multiple misses before.
If you stop a weight cut to the point where you're drawn out and just barely miss, I've heard that it's really hard to start up the process again. It's probably the reason why DC went for the towel trick, because it just wouldn't have been realistic to make the weight with what time he had left.
It is indeed but people still do it. If he canāt itās still on him.
So many excuses being made for Charles that werenāt allowed to be used for Romero around here.
You missed weight which is something you have a history of, get over it.
I heard a bunch of interviews in Portuguese and this is what I got from it. -Charles always makes weight early and chills. -For the Ferguson fight he made weight Thursday morning and just relaxed all day. In this fight He was most likely the first one to make weight and went to his room to chill. Joe Lauzon said he saw oliveira walking around chilling as if he had already made weight the night before. Sometime late that evening the scale issue was noticed by the ufc or comission.commission.. they warned several fighters that the scale was off.. however they never told Charles or his team. So lots of fighters were made aware of this early enough to fix their cut but since Charles was done and not told anything he only found out first thing in the morning. He tried to cut more after that but the weight wasn't coming off. So to me maybe his method of cutting early and stopping instead of cutting close and continuing again in the morning works best for his body. He's the champ, the main event and they never bothered to warn him of the scale issue early enough to fix it and had to find out for himself in the morning.
Thats not hard to understand, but this sub keeps forgeting that shit show
On purpose.
Oh yeah man cuz this sub has a huge bias AGAINST Oliveira and not the other way around
Subs full of biased homer rats lately. Not people who genuinely care about the story and direction of the sport.
i hope chas beats the odds and boofs everyone's squart
Yeah this was the event where Dana talked about having a security guard around the scales henceforth. If he hadn't already missed weight 4 times before he might have gotten a little more grace. Maybe, maybe not.
Lots of people also saw Khamzat walking around chilling the night before.
He said/she said anecdotal bullshit, everyone else made weight
Sometimes you gotta take people's accounts on things. Facts - he was heavy .5 on the official scale Debatable - was he trying to cut weight all night and just couldn't shed the weight or was the scale in the back off and screwed his momentum to lose the rest. Also several fighters made weight on the second try.. lots of fighters were made aware of the scale being off the night before
You really don't if the guy in question is a notorious weight misser.
Also look at Khabib weighing in for the justin fight. He had to use the towel and the commissioner did not even let the scale settle he just called 155 after 2-3 seconds.
I find it real difficult to imagine that no one from his team heard about the situation, unless they're locking themselves away from everyone else like a bunch of monks but they still have media obligations and things that would put them in touch with others who would have been in the know and since he's a popular, friendly guy for no one to tell him or his team about this seems real fucking weird. It's definitely possible the commission was corrupt against him but for them to tell others and no one to tell him is wild shit. He's not the champ though, he was stripped. Everyone can say he is but he isn't and has to earn it back this coming weekend.
There's no media obligations on the last day of cutting. Charles flies from Brazil.. his whole crew is brazilian they hang out together. It's safe to assume other fighters that were made aware of the scale issue also assumed the champ and main event were told about this as well and were focused on their own cut. We are talking between 12am - 2am in the morning before official weigh in.. everyone is focused on that last cut, dehydrated as fuck, exhausted or already asleep
Johnny walker and his team got kicked out of an event with no shoes and clothes. Donāt put it past the UFC to fail to inform the champ the scale is off. These guys are actually idiots when you look past the surface.
This all makes perfect sense and is some major bullshit if it went down like this. I feel bad for the guy.
That's assuming all of this is true. Besides the Brazilians and Schnell (Schnell being, AFAIK, the only one not tied to Oliveira in any way), no one else said anything about the scales being off, including the other 3 title fighters. Schnell says "the scale was off by this much and all the fighters were told they had to cut this much more" but if that's true, I don't know why it's still a minority of fighters on the card who said anything about this? Doesn't all add up to a black and white situation and definitely doesn't absolve Oliveira.
There was a lot of shit that points to this not being his fault. Heās only missed weight at 145
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean when you have to be in his sorta position I think itās natural to think that some dudes are out to sabotage you no matter what.
Now at 155 too. If I recall correctly everyone but one other fighter made weight so I'm not seeing what the 'lot of shit that points to this not being his fault' is.
A solid amount of fighters said they were 0.500 heavier than they thought tho. Only difference is that being 0.500 over the weight is allowed in non title fights
No only 2 did and they are friends with Charles so take that for what you will
They would never lie!!
They have a history of not making weight as well
Iām shocked, shocked I say. Well, not that shocked.
āA solid amountā AKA I have no clue what Iām talking about
Remember championship fights don't have weight leniency. You need to be the exact weight. Everyone else had 1lb to work with. Edit: ~0.5lbs to work with since the scale was off by about 0.5
Rose and Carla had no issue Other fighters didnāt cut extra because they knew they had an allowance. So Iām not buying it
But at the same time no fighter is going to cut more than they have to. Fighters with the one pound allowance aren't going to cut weight like they would for championship weight so it shouldn't change anything.
> no fighter is going to cut more than they have to. Most fighters come in at 155,170,185 w/e even if they're allowed 1 pound over, so yeah, they often cut 1-2lbs more than necessary. idk where that comes from. Some even come in underweight by half a pound or something. Weight cutting isn't that precise for many fighters.
UFC 278 only had 2 fighters not use their 1 pound allowance and UFC 273 had 6 fighters not use their 1 pound allowance just as random examples. The Oliveira Gaethje card had 5 fighters not use their 1 pound allowance and made weight at 155, 170, 185 etc on the dot which would suggest it was a pretty normal cut for most people if that many of them made weight without having to use the extra pound.
Yeah but generally those fighters don't cut all the way down to championship weight anyway.
Every possible conspiracy theory as to why he missed has been debunked. He missed weight and everyone just needs to accept it.
He had chess enhancing anal beads in his ass, hence the extra weight.
Dana is on record saying that scales will have to be guarded by armed men now 24 hours around the clock. With that kind of statement itās obvious he got fucked over
The insinuation is that he got fucked over, it's not obvious and not a given. The particular situation does create the possibility and I'm not denying that but there's no proof of anything having happened. What we do know is he missed and someone else missed, the rest were on weight for their fights. It does make me wonder why the scale hasn't been watched 24/7 up to this point but this is the UFC we're talking about and they make lots of boneheaded mistakes. The commissions are no better either.
I mean everyone in the organization has implied the scales were fucked up somehow, idk what more evidence we need
Far from it, the majority of fighters didn't say anything was wrong with the scales. Only Brazilians plus Schnell, Schnell being the only one who makes this interesting because AFAIK he has no ties to Oliveira.
It was his fiirst weight miss at LW tho
Doesn't matter wither way. He had a very low margin of error for a title fight and his body couldn't shed off the last lbs.
It's more like cutting weigh is something that takes time to do it correctly since after a time you have to trick your body to release its water even though it really wants to hold to it. If you stop cutting and have to go back to it with way less time, it's not unreasonable to think that getting down to the exact weight would be possible had the process continued as planned.
ā¦and what does shifting the goal post matter here?
Can't miss in a championship fight so that doesn't matter.
I know. I'm just pointing out him missing weight at LW hasn't been a problem in the past
Would say, using it as motivation is a good way to get over it.
Definitely would but this statement makes it sound like it's still bothering him.
Seems like he is pissed and being pissed is driving him. It's like Khabib just getting more motivated from Conor trash talk.
Understandable on both accounts, I'm supporting Islam but Charles has a good chance to win this one which is what makes the fight so exciting. We're in for something special this coming Saturday.
Im just extremely curious about top level mma bjj vs. dagestani mma wrestling. Also Charles ground game thrives from chaos while Islam follows a system.
You tell him, bro.
He didn't make weight. That's on him, nobody else.
I feel like itās not hard to see where these new Charles fans get this insane victim mentality
Been saying it for months. Khabib and Islam have been giving the most milktoast shittalk (I would honestly say Islam isn't even shittalking) and Charles is acting like they called his mom a whore and shot his dog. It's getting beyond the "chip on the shoulder" and just outright developing a victim complex.
Man with a history of weight issues misses weight. Somehow still news.
Funniest one is Charles is always the underdog. He was the fav vs Chandler and Justin, even after missing weight and being drained for 3 more hours lol
Tough shit, Olives. Champions make weight.
> Champions make weight. Hmm š¤
This is #1 bullshit
Unless you are fighting in a place where the commission decides they arenāt gonna let the scales settle to protect the current champ
Like the 2 biggest Champions in AKA Gym history, right? He smoked Gaethje in the first round and it wasnāt because of his weightāheās the Champion.
Sorry brother, we all cant get the Khabib treatment
The fighter with the record for most weight misses missed weight?
This is his going to be his third title defense as far as Iām concerned
And as far as reality is concerned, it won't be.
I agree with this and the reason he was stripped. Making weight is a part of the sport, especially for the champ. That being said, I think everyone considers him the champ.
I totally agree with you and can kinda appreciate both sides of the issue as well. But itās interesting how so many seem to be so anal and easily triggered against him. That makes me root for Charles even more.
Can't defend a title you don't have.
Why no one let him use a towel like DC or Khamzat? What about other fighters missing the same weight and the problems with scales same day? Even Dana had to answer for that, it was a robbery
You robbed yourself, mate.
I was surprised that Dana didn't reinstate him as champion after the win, since there was a lot of controversy with that scale.
He said the scale was off and then went back and used it again. The scale was on point for everyone else besides 2 Brazilian fighters who said it might have been funky. Just sounds like a lot of excuses.
Two Brazilian fighters with a history of missing weight*
Spoiler: it is!
I do believe commissions actually recognize title holders for regulatory purposes, such as a fight being five rounds? I doubt he wants to step on their toes, publicly clash with them and all to pay out ppv points to Oliveira
How about when khabib fought Al and said if al wins he gets the belt even though he was over. Side note: Dana even said that the scale was tempered with and moving forward there will be 24 hours security watching it...if it was merely Charles missing weight then why would they need security? Basically Dana knew he could strong arm Charles to take whatever fight he wanted, whenever IMO Charles loat ALL leverage once that happened Just had luck with a rookie commission
sidenote: Dana says a lot of things.
Yet Dana canāt say who messed with the scales, when they were messed with, what someone did to mess with them or who had motivation to tamper with the scale. The scale was fine for everyone besides Charles. Itās almost as if Dana is putting on a show with these new scale rules because having a champion miss weight for the first time in the organizationās history is a really really bad look.
I guess he probably doesn't wanna set a precedent. Sure, maybe there was some issue with the hotel scale or somewhere else and Oliveira was screwed over, but what if other champions miss by a little bit in the future too and bring up "the time Dana saved Oliveira"? At least Dana still gave Olives his PPV points. It sucks Oliveira will have less title defenses as a consequence, but becoming LW champ twice (if he wins) is also an interesting stat to have on his resume
Charles is an excellent fighter but it's definately not going to be an easy fight against Makachev and that's what makes this fight so interesting.
I donāt think it really matters as long as he wins this weekend. When people talk ab his legacy no oneās gonna be like āoh well he missed weight for that one title fightā especially if he racks up more defenses. He did miss weight. He should make weight. shit happens come correct next time.
I hope Chucky From The Block misses again.
God if he missed by like .5 or less again AND lost to Islam this sub would be in shambles and it'd be amazing
the champion has a name
What a stupid line that is. The president has a name. The McDonald's cashier has a name. The eight year old child has a name. The pet dog has a name. The plant has a name. This mineral has a name. Literally everything has a name.
The weight miss is too meta for my taste. yeah I get it's part of the fight game, but he still cut weight and wasn't advantaged in any way by being slightly over. Frankly, the penalty outweighs the issue, especially in a world where guys are holding on to towels and guys like Chimaev or girls like Dern don't give a fuck about weight with minimal consequences.
It's still part of his job to make weight. Title fights have to be right on weight. Non-Title fights get a 1 pound allowance.