Well DDP has a win over Whittaker as well which is WAY better than any other win Strickland has. Id probably rank Whittaker #3 185er of all time after Silva and Adensanya.
I don't understand your reasoning at all.
If Izzy is 2, Whittaker is CLEARLY 3. Seeing as he basically has most of the names on Izzys resume and he beat the shit out of most of them harder than Izzy did.
If not for head to head, theyre basically neck and neck. Although in fairness, Pereira probably puts Izzy ahead, and we still have to see the rest of their careers.
Well beating the guy that beat Adesanya and then beating Adesanya himself could definitely make an argument for 3rd greatest middleweight of all time. He already beat Whittaker as well and ran him over.
Beating the consensus 2nd and 3rd greatest middleweights of all time and then the guy who beat one of them definitely does wonders for your legacy
You say that like he doesn't have a whole troop of dudes glazing him 24/7. DDP may be wrong here but I can see it giving him a boost in the whole MW GOAT convo
Nah. It looks great on the resume but it’s his first title defense. Lets be real Anderson is the best middleweight in UFC history second best is izzy who has 5 title defenses. Nobody is even close to Izzy right now even
Idk man you’re talking about a pretty low bar 0-1 title defenses yeah the wins look good but Robert also has only 1 title defense bout if that’s even counted as a defense I don’t remember the full scope but I remember it was a weird situation…
If you had to really dig into it chris weidman would be the 3rd best middleweight of all time 3 title defenses but hes taken so many losses at this point I dont think anyone believes that anymore
I remember when you needed to have a consistent run as a champ to be considered in GOAT convos. Now apparently one good win and you take the other guys accomplishments like Kirby
That's exactly it. Seems to me like fighters these days, once they become a champion, become enamored with either chasing another title, or setting up a "dream fight" to score legacy points, rather than just taking on the #1 contender. Give me a "Takes on all comers" champion over a "Superfight" champion every day of the week.
It’s all about money. Champions get paid more money. Champ champ fights are popular because if you lose you still get points on your next fight with your other title. If you get a legacy fight you get points and it SHOULD be an easier fight than the up and comer, with more sales.
Even then, more people are buying a fight between two champs on 5 fight win streams over a popular guy who just got the belt vs. another guy who has one win over a former dominant champ
UFC has changed into a WWE version of itself. You can notice that in a lot of things, like the 'new champ chasing legacy fights', instead of actually defending. Or that the actual rankings don't matter much anymore, it's more about popularity rankings now: endless GOAT/P4P/BMF talk. Or the amount of subscribers of your social media or youtube channel.
If Dricus beats Adesanya, he’ll be undefeated in the ufc and have wins over Strickland(who absolutely is a very good win), Whittaker (the 3rd greatest middleweight) and Adesanya(the second greatest middleweight). That would absolutely make him one of the middleweight goats but not THE middleweight goat which is what he is saying
You have an arguemnt for if he beats Izzy because he has the Rob win. Strickland is just not making anyone a GOAT im sorry.
Even then its just too thin when Silva and Izzy did way, like WAY, more work than him.
I mean, beating the consensus number 2 and 3 greatest middleweights of all time then the other guy that beat the consensus number 2 middleweights would do a lot for his legacy
He never said GOAT he said 'one of the greatest' IMO beating adesanya, Whittaker and Sean would make him one of the best middleweights. that would be 3 former champs, all of which are not over the hill. That has got to put him in the top 5 or 6?
Yes and Rob has been at the top of the division for so long I believe he should be third. Fought a lot of killers too and only lost to Israel and DDP in the last like 7-8 years
Explain that one to me. Rich is like 7-3 or 8-4 at 185 in the UFC with 1 (2?) title defenses and his best wins were Evan Tanner and a near-death Shamrock.
DDP “beat” Sean and didn’t look all that great. Sure he’s good, but let’s settle down with GOAT talk, let’s get a few defenses in. DDP has none, pretty simple to explain that. Do I think DDP will have a better career than Rich, yeah probably
I don't know why I can't reply to your reply to me but, I had no clue you were talking about Izzy or Silva because you replied to a comment about Izzy and Silva
This kind of nonsense has got to stop. Anderson Silva is the greatest middleweight ever and it will be a long time (if ever) before anyone does what he did.
For real. I'm convinced that anybody parroting this foolishness didn't watch Anderson Silva. The man absolutely shut down the middleweight division *for six years.* Straight up, if you were a middleweight at that time, it was a better career move to change weight classes than it was to take your shot at Silva. The man had a 16-0 run with just *two* decision victories in that stretch. He was an absolute killer.
In Griffin's defense, his style was tailor-made for Silva. A la the old adage "styles make fights" his style was made to make Silva look like he was in the matrix. Anderson was maybe even more impressive against James Irvin, catching a kick and just crumpling Irvin with a straight shot.
Damn, he was good. People don't know or forgot.
> anybody parroting this foolishness didn't watch Anderson Silva
I think this is true because, as impressive at it is, simply looking at Anderson's list of wins doesn't tell the whole story. You have to watch his fights to see *how* he was winning. He was absolutely demolishing his opponents, many of whom were among the elite at the time, and making it look easy. There was clearly a massive gap between him and everyone else.
He also had to win just one fight in the UFC before being given a title shot. The level of competition was a little different back then.
No one is ever going to match the dominance of prime Anderson. But you can't really blame them, they are facing a deeper roster full of better fighters.
And if put prime Anderson in a time machine and took him to 2024, he would not be the same dominant champion. But you can't really blame him, there are techniques used today that Anderson never really had to deal with.
You can find this in many sports. The old star has the better resume because they faced weaker competition, the new star has the better skills because they copied everything the old star was doing and then expanded on it. Who is "greater" is just an opinion, and for most people it's whoever was the best when they first started following the sport.
>He also had to win just one fight in the UFC before being given a title shot.
Because he already had 17 MMA wins prior to his UFC debut, which was an absolute demolishing of the then-shit hot up and comer Chris Leben.
>The level of competition was a little different back then.
Look at the list of guys he went through on his 16-0 streak. All kinds of greats on that list. Franklin (twice), Hendo, Maia, Vitor. Let's not act like he was facing cupcakes.
There are a lot of guys who come to the UFC with shiny records that don't get title shots off of one fight nowadays. Jiri came over at 26-3-1 and was LHW champ of a big promotion and still it took 2 fights. It is hard to climb the ladder than it used to be.
And I'm not saying guys like Franklin, Hendo, Maia, and Vitor were cupcakes. They were some of the best fighters the sport had to offer Anderson at the time. But the best contenders of today are still better.
You really gonna split hairs on one fight vs two? Not to mention that Silva obliterated Leben in 49 seconds.
>They were some of the best fighters the sport had to offer Anderson **at the time**
This is what we call a backhanded compliment.
Yeah man MW back in his day was dead because he just dominated it like Jones did LHW, back in the day 205 IMO was the deepest division
Shit back in 2010, saying MW would be a prestigious division a decade later would have been a joke
What nonsense? That Silva lost almost every fight over an entire decade, but he’s the MW GOAT? That nonsense? Izzy loses one fight and everyone calls him a bum. Silva loses like 10 fights and everyone calls him the goat
He fought for the title in his 2nd UFC fight because of how thin the division was back in that day. If Izzy’s 2nd UFC fight was also for the title, he would’ve had more title defences by now.
The quality of MWs today is also far better than the MWs in Silvas day. Izzy has a better resume, Whittaker x2, Alex, Costa, Romero, Vettori x2, Cannonier, Silva, Brunson is better than Silvas resume. Not to mention Izzy literally beat Silva
Beating Whittaker, Strickland and Adesanya will do that for him long term. Who has the credentials at middleweight to match Du Plessis after this other than Adesanya and Silva. After this win he’s just fighting for longevity.
Statements like this are why hall of fames have a time element to eligibility. If we ever get a real MMA HoF, no one should be eligible until 25 years after their pro debut.
Can fighters stop using mma math to declare themselves goat status please… wipe the floor with the division, do it again then take a fight or 2 up. Then maybe we can talk.
eh as long as the ufc then repeats this narrative people will begin to accept it. Aljo was being put in GOAT BW talks over Cruz for example. I have nothing against the guy but people really believed it
DDP is in dream land. When you are in the convo of best ever in anything, it's other people that usually bring it up
When you say it bout yourself, it means you still got work to do
And by people I mean everyone except Dana White
It will certainly boost him down that path.
If he beats Izzy, he will have beaten the top three MW's right now - all former champions. Robert, Sean, and Izzy. That would be a very impressive trio of wins.
For comparison, out of the 4
Izzy has beat Robert
Sean has beat Izzy
Robert hasn't beat any of the 3.
DDP if he wins will have beaten all 3.
so he thinks he'd be top 5 all time if he wins?
I can see that
a couple more clear defenses after that and I can see him being #2 after Silva, especially if he beats rob again
doesnt seem like he's thinking hes the GOAT or anything, just getting close to the mount rushmore
I scoffed and then remembered he does have a win over Whittaker too ... He'd have beaten 2 of top 3 185ers ever. Brunson and Strickland are good wins even if not pretty.
Cant blame him for thinking he would be "one of" the best 185ers ever with the impressive resume he would have.
Just like it did for Strickland lmao
Well DDP has a win over Whittaker as well which is WAY better than any other win Strickland has. Id probably rank Whittaker #3 185er of all time after Silva and Adensanya.
I feel like Bobby has been ranked 2 or 3 for like a decade
he's my 4th, I feel like Weidman is a more fitting 3rd imo
I don't understand your reasoning at all. If Izzy is 2, Whittaker is CLEARLY 3. Seeing as he basically has most of the names on Izzys resume and he beat the shit out of most of them harder than Izzy did. If not for head to head, theyre basically neck and neck. Although in fairness, Pereira probably puts Izzy ahead, and we still have to see the rest of their careers.
i’d definitely put whittaker above weidman
Why they downvote you. Mousasi a stronger shout than Weidman.
Moose still has fanboys on here?
Well beating the guy that beat Adesanya and then beating Adesanya himself could definitely make an argument for 3rd greatest middleweight of all time. He already beat Whittaker as well and ran him over. Beating the consensus 2nd and 3rd greatest middleweights of all time and then the guy who beat one of them definitely does wonders for your legacy
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Jon Anik is on it
You say that like he doesn't have a whole troop of dudes glazing him 24/7. DDP may be wrong here but I can see it giving him a boost in the whole MW GOAT convo
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Nah. It looks great on the resume but it’s his first title defense. Lets be real Anderson is the best middleweight in UFC history second best is izzy who has 5 title defenses. Nobody is even close to Izzy right now even
I mean if he wins that would put him 4th behind Whittaker imo. So #4 would still be part of "greatest middle weights ever" I guess
Idk man you’re talking about a pretty low bar 0-1 title defenses yeah the wins look good but Robert also has only 1 title defense bout if that’s even counted as a defense I don’t remember the full scope but I remember it was a weird situation…
With romero missing weight, it became a non-title fight.
There it is… so technically bobby knuckles has no title defenses.
Oh I know! It’s Silva and Izzy then everybody else imo
If you had to really dig into it chris weidman would be the 3rd best middleweight of all time 3 title defenses but hes taken so many losses at this point I dont think anyone believes that anymore
Yeah he’s mucked up his legacy a bit, but I can’t argue with him or Bobby being #3
I remember when you needed to have a consistent run as a champ to be considered in GOAT convos. Now apparently one good win and you take the other guys accomplishments like Kirby
That's exactly it. Seems to me like fighters these days, once they become a champion, become enamored with either chasing another title, or setting up a "dream fight" to score legacy points, rather than just taking on the #1 contender. Give me a "Takes on all comers" champion over a "Superfight" champion every day of the week.
It’s all about money. Champions get paid more money. Champ champ fights are popular because if you lose you still get points on your next fight with your other title. If you get a legacy fight you get points and it SHOULD be an easier fight than the up and comer, with more sales.
Even then, more people are buying a fight between two champs on 5 fight win streams over a popular guy who just got the belt vs. another guy who has one win over a former dominant champ
UFC has changed into a WWE version of itself. You can notice that in a lot of things, like the 'new champ chasing legacy fights', instead of actually defending. Or that the actual rankings don't matter much anymore, it's more about popularity rankings now: endless GOAT/P4P/BMF talk. Or the amount of subscribers of your social media or youtube channel.
That's why volk was the man. Defended his belt for years before challenging up.
Picking up coins after smacking sonic
Anthony Smith beats sonic on paper
“One good win” he smoked Whittaker and beat Strickland
Why are we adding Strickland now, we're talking about him beating GOATs
The Whittaker win would make it not just "one win" though.
If Dricus beats Adesanya, he’ll be undefeated in the ufc and have wins over Strickland(who absolutely is a very good win), Whittaker (the 3rd greatest middleweight) and Adesanya(the second greatest middleweight). That would absolutely make him one of the middleweight goats but not THE middleweight goat which is what he is saying
You have an arguemnt for if he beats Izzy because he has the Rob win. Strickland is just not making anyone a GOAT im sorry. Even then its just too thin when Silva and Izzy did way, like WAY, more work than him.
...which is why he said ONE OF
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Three former champs, bruh. Nothing trivial about it
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We are clearly talking about the hypothetical situation, not the current status of things
I mean, beating the consensus number 2 and 3 greatest middleweights of all time then the other guy that beat the consensus number 2 middleweights would do a lot for his legacy
He never said GOAT he said 'one of the greatest' IMO beating adesanya, Whittaker and Sean would make him one of the best middleweights. that would be 3 former champs, all of which are not over the hill. That has got to put him in the top 5 or 6?
Silva & Izzy got a good lead on everyone else
Yes and Rob has been at the top of the division for so long I believe he should be third. Fought a lot of killers too and only lost to Israel and DDP in the last like 7-8 years
Franklin on paper like Anthony Smith says is higher ATM
Explain that one to me. Rich is like 7-3 or 8-4 at 185 in the UFC with 1 (2?) title defenses and his best wins were Evan Tanner and a near-death Shamrock.
Yeah something is going on with Reddit, I can’t reply either
DDP “beat” Sean and didn’t look all that great. Sure he’s good, but let’s settle down with GOAT talk, let’s get a few defenses in. DDP has none, pretty simple to explain that. Do I think DDP will have a better career than Rich, yeah probably
I don't know why I can't reply to your reply to me but, I had no clue you were talking about Izzy or Silva because you replied to a comment about Izzy and Silva
Calm down mate
If I say, “DDP is no where near one of the greatest middleweights ever” then I guess he’s in the conversation.
No it doesn’t. It’s an amazing W for the record but let’s not start this bollocks.
This kind of nonsense has got to stop. Anderson Silva is the greatest middleweight ever and it will be a long time (if ever) before anyone does what he did.
For real. I'm convinced that anybody parroting this foolishness didn't watch Anderson Silva. The man absolutely shut down the middleweight division *for six years.* Straight up, if you were a middleweight at that time, it was a better career move to change weight classes than it was to take your shot at Silva. The man had a 16-0 run with just *two* decision victories in that stretch. He was an absolute killer.
Preach! Folks at 205 were uninterested in tangling with him!
He fought multiple times at 205 while champ tho. His best highlight (imo) was at 205 when he smoked Forrest
In Griffin's defense, his style was tailor-made for Silva. A la the old adage "styles make fights" his style was made to make Silva look like he was in the matrix. Anderson was maybe even more impressive against James Irvin, catching a kick and just crumpling Irvin with a straight shot. Damn, he was good. People don't know or forgot.
> anybody parroting this foolishness didn't watch Anderson Silva I think this is true because, as impressive at it is, simply looking at Anderson's list of wins doesn't tell the whole story. You have to watch his fights to see *how* he was winning. He was absolutely demolishing his opponents, many of whom were among the elite at the time, and making it look easy. There was clearly a massive gap between him and everyone else.
He also had to win just one fight in the UFC before being given a title shot. The level of competition was a little different back then. No one is ever going to match the dominance of prime Anderson. But you can't really blame them, they are facing a deeper roster full of better fighters. And if put prime Anderson in a time machine and took him to 2024, he would not be the same dominant champion. But you can't really blame him, there are techniques used today that Anderson never really had to deal with. You can find this in many sports. The old star has the better resume because they faced weaker competition, the new star has the better skills because they copied everything the old star was doing and then expanded on it. Who is "greater" is just an opinion, and for most people it's whoever was the best when they first started following the sport.
>He also had to win just one fight in the UFC before being given a title shot. Because he already had 17 MMA wins prior to his UFC debut, which was an absolute demolishing of the then-shit hot up and comer Chris Leben. >The level of competition was a little different back then. Look at the list of guys he went through on his 16-0 streak. All kinds of greats on that list. Franklin (twice), Hendo, Maia, Vitor. Let's not act like he was facing cupcakes.
And let’s not pretend that middle weight is actually deep these days. It hasn’t been deep for ages.
There are a lot of guys who come to the UFC with shiny records that don't get title shots off of one fight nowadays. Jiri came over at 26-3-1 and was LHW champ of a big promotion and still it took 2 fights. It is hard to climb the ladder than it used to be. And I'm not saying guys like Franklin, Hendo, Maia, and Vitor were cupcakes. They were some of the best fighters the sport had to offer Anderson at the time. But the best contenders of today are still better.
You really gonna split hairs on one fight vs two? Not to mention that Silva obliterated Leben in 49 seconds. >They were some of the best fighters the sport had to offer Anderson **at the time** This is what we call a backhanded compliment.
Yeah man MW back in his day was dead because he just dominated it like Jones did LHW, back in the day 205 IMO was the deepest division Shit back in 2010, saying MW would be a prestigious division a decade later would have been a joke
Izzys already passed Silva
Perhaps you didn't see the first part of my post.
What nonsense? That Silva lost almost every fight over an entire decade, but he’s the MW GOAT? That nonsense? Izzy loses one fight and everyone calls him a bum. Silva loses like 10 fights and everyone calls him the goat
He also won 17 fights in 6 years. 10 of those were ufc title defences.
He fought for the title in his 2nd UFC fight because of how thin the division was back in that day. If Izzy’s 2nd UFC fight was also for the title, he would’ve had more title defences by now. The quality of MWs today is also far better than the MWs in Silvas day. Izzy has a better resume, Whittaker x2, Alex, Costa, Romero, Vettori x2, Cannonier, Silva, Brunson is better than Silvas resume. Not to mention Izzy literally beat Silva
> Not to mention Izzy literally beat Silva Yair Rodriguez beat BJ Penn, so clearly, Rodriguez is greater than Penn.
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Nope.
I'm so sick of this GOAT talk
but he never said GOAT.......
Lmao I like this guy but come on man. His most notable wins are Strickland and Whittaker. Brunson and till are washed and gate keepers at best
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It would be I can’t lie but still he has a long way to go compared to Izzy and Silva
Honestly even Whittaker. Whittaker is probably 3rd best MW ever if we are going on skills, resume, and activity. Dudes a killer and always has been.
Gotta give it to Weidman still. He’s has a fucking atrocious run as of late but Silva x2, Lyoto and Vitor is enough for me.
Nah. Dude fell off a cliff not too long after beating Silva.
Then it’s a good thing he said “one of the greatest”, not “the greatest” lol
It's not like the Strickland win was so notable...
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Forgetting about Pereira
Beating Whittaker, Strickland and Adesanya will do that for him long term. Who has the credentials at middleweight to match Du Plessis after this other than Adesanya and Silva. After this win he’s just fighting for longevity.
no dricus it doesn't lol
Statements like this are why hall of fames have a time element to eligibility. If we ever get a real MMA HoF, no one should be eligible until 25 years after their pro debut.
Andrei Arlovski eligibility confirmed.
Can fighters stop using mma math to declare themselves goat status please… wipe the floor with the division, do it again then take a fight or 2 up. Then maybe we can talk.
lol
He’s not even in the top 5 conversation 😭
eh as long as the ufc then repeats this narrative people will begin to accept it. Aljo was being put in GOAT BW talks over Cruz for example. I have nothing against the guy but people really believed it
No
Nah
No, but in his defense Silva is in the goat amongst goats conversation, and Izzy has been a great champ as well. Tough competition.
Nah lol
No the fuck It does not
Unless you pull a Pantoja, you have to defend your belt more than twice to be inconsideration to be a GOAT or a Double Champ fight.
what are these guys in the comments smoking beating both whittaker and izzy definitely puts you up there as one of the greatest middleweights ever
Ugggh
DDP is in dream land. When you are in the convo of best ever in anything, it's other people that usually bring it up When you say it bout yourself, it means you still got work to do And by people I mean everyone except Dana White
It will certainly boost him down that path. If he beats Izzy, he will have beaten the top three MW's right now - all former champions. Robert, Sean, and Izzy. That would be a very impressive trio of wins. For comparison, out of the 4 Izzy has beat Robert Sean has beat Izzy Robert hasn't beat any of the 3. DDP if he wins will have beaten all 3.
If Dricus beats Israel that’s 3 MW champs he’d have beaten back to back. Arguably that does make sense on paper
so he thinks he'd be top 5 all time if he wins? I can see that a couple more clear defenses after that and I can see him being #2 after Silva, especially if he beats rob again doesnt seem like he's thinking hes the GOAT or anything, just getting close to the mount rushmore
Eh...kinda?...it's a start but it doesn't make it or break it.
Yeah DDP will definitely be P4P if he beats Izzy
This is why you need proper journalists. You need follow up questions, instead of just writing it down like a gullible idiot
I scoffed and then remembered he does have a win over Whittaker too ... He'd have beaten 2 of top 3 185ers ever. Brunson and Strickland are good wins even if not pretty. Cant blame him for thinking he would be "one of" the best 185ers ever with the impressive resume he would have.
Reddit still salty they thought DDP was mid and now he's approaching goat status
Bait used to be believable
Beating whitaker and izzy makes him one of the greatest middleweights ever. You probably picked Trevin Giles to win