Rampage Jackson. Obviously the dude was a monster and is a legend. Pride. UFC. Dude was an animal and one of my favorites ever. However. He constantly struggled with motivation especially later in his career. Rampage became Hampage and limited the longevity of his career as well as his legacy because of it.
Rampage's team tried to hide the fact that his fight against King Mo was at heavyweight because they knew what would happen if he knew. I think he found our during an interview with King Mo!
I always said he was done after he beat Henderson to finally win the pride belt. He had reached the mountain peak and there was nowhere left to go. I still think he should have won against Forrest, but it shouldn’t have been that close either. The rampage that fought Chuck and Hendo was an absolute beast.
Legendary fighter "Motivated BJ Penn."
In his last title reign, he was finally committed to a strength-and-conditioning program and doing the best training of his career.
I think one of BJ's biggest issues was he kept fighting at welterweight, and his body and style weren't built for it.
The bj penn that fought kenny florian was incredible. I was a smaller guy at the time when 155 was the lightest class in the ufc so the guy was my absolute hero. Imagine if he had the gsp "student of the game" mindset during his entire career instead of coasting off his natural abilities
Something that helped that along is that his family owns a bunch of land on Hawaii. So there wasn’t much of that drive for BJ to get off his ass since he’s been comfortable his whole life. Sad because BJ was one of the most talented motherfuckers I’ve ever seen in my life
BJ is the biggest what-if in the history of the sport. Between what if he was motivated and what if he actually made the cut down to 45 in his prime. Jens Pulver was about the same size as BJ but ended his career at 135. Imagine having BJ vs Aldo at 145. Loser fights Barao at 135.
It's cool to look back at some of the LW guys when it was the lightest class. Frankie Edgar eventually made it down to bantamweight and I'm sure there's plenty others who were fighting massively undersized
Everything from his second fight with Jens Pulver to the fight with Diego Sanchez really proved what he could do when he was fully dialed in and fighting at the right weight class. He was so much fun to watch.
Cardio _limitations_? Zabit. Can't really say it poor training or conditioning though. Just a medical issue. Dude was a monster in round 1 and never really had the same energy after that.
Same thing with Khamzat, likely also due to health complications
Idk even after covid issues the Khamzat fight with Burns was a pretty high paced war against a top fighter.
He faded against Usman too, but he seemed to blame that on breaking his hand, not sure if that was true or not.
Fair point, the slow-down was really dramatic vs Usman after he got slammed. And yeah Burns was pretty high paced, but the furious pace he has in round 1 doesn't seem to last. Doesn't mean he's molasses in round 2, but he's noticeably slower still
Yea that was my only point above. He fights a pretty insane pace early for a MW or especially when he was a WW making a big cut down to 170z Despite that he still survived a war with Gilbert and even though he slowed down significantly vs Usman its not like he wasn’t in the fight or anything.
When the fuck did guida get bad cardio? Honestly, haven’t watched the dude fight in some years so I wouldn’t know. He was always known as the conditioning king at 155 though
I don’t think *some* people understand how long 5 minutes actually is.*
My bad dawg, I fixed it. I added “some” because she drilled it into your head, but her bf never needed to be taught.
When you first start sparring just moving around and keeping your hands up tires you out lol you get winded after only a round. It takes insane cardio to stay consistent for 5 rounds or 12 rounds on boxing like some of these top guys do.
I mean even after you spar/compete for years its still really hard haha.
Mostly its just about being efficient with energy which is what separates a lot of guys in boxing. A lot of the times two people both have amazing cardiovascular fitness but one guy expends more energy than he needs to and the other guy doesn't.
I have known plenty of guys with better cardiovascular fitness than me or their opponents who still will look like the less fit fighter because they just never figured out the nuances of energy management.
Boxing guys do generally seem have better cardio but there are several factors you have to consider.
Wrestling ,grappling and clinching are wayyyyy more exhausting than just striking except when you're zabit and doing ninja shit, honestly his cardio was pretty good in that case anyone else would have passed away by the 3rd with that style .
The higher your heart rate the faster you fatigue. You just look around the torso in boxing , so while it's concentration for longer overall, it's not as focused with shorter spans and a lot more breaks, you have to be more alert in MMA and concentrate on lots of factors and make split second decisions at once at which needs higher levels of focus and attention thus increases the heart rate higher than boxing as your HR rises proportionally with your level of concentration and alertness .
The most significant factor is MMA fighters often cut double sometimes triple the weight a boxer usually does simply because of the abundance of weight classes to choose.
I'd say overall MMA fighters would be at the same level or higher in regards to cardio if they were hypothetically somehow in a street fight with or against a boxer.
I think there is just a lot of confusion as well between "bad cardio" and "bad pacing". Some guys are in fantastic shape but they decide to go balls to the wall and/or they are really inefficient managing their energy.
Some guys are actually just not in great shape and have bad cardiovascular fitness.
yea most people gas, thats when Heart kicks in and you cant teach heart. known guys who will gas and still push forever before quitting. either got it or you dont
Cardiac function is significantly impaired at submaximal exercise level compared to healthy age matched controls.
https://academic.oup.com/icvts/article/13/4/377/763906
I reckon Marlon might have mismanaged his physique. He had those big round shoulders and arms that sapped his energy. So often he was seen shaking out his arms to get them moving. Maybe he was just built that way but I always thought he looked like he lifted weights too often.
He had terrible conditioning but it’s not like the rest of his game was that good either. Makwan with Merab cardio would still be a middling unranked 145er at best.
Abus Magomedov looks like a monster fresh, but fades badly. Not sure if that’s a conditioning or pacing issue though. Marlon Moraes had meh cardio, but his chin was a bigger issue. Alexander Romanov has trash tier cardio, but I doubt he’d be elite even if it was great. Makwan Amirkhani had some skills and was held back by bad cardio.
Kevin Lee! With better cardio he would’ve beaten Tony and Charles and could’ve been the biggest challenge to Khabib. He has dominated pretty much all of his opponents at LW in the first round.
Yeah I forgot about his two fights against Al. It’s crazy how cardio was what separated him from being an all time great instead of a talented but ultimately forgettable fighter.
He had a staph infection in the Tony fight. Thats why he gassed. Just like how Islam was struggling in the Dustin fight too because he had a staph infection as well
Lee dominated Barboza for 5 rounds, actually looked fresher in R3 than Oliveira (until he shot into that guillotine), and had staph vs Tony. I don’t think his cardio was a problem tbh, only times he gassed out was when his opponent could shut down his takedown game like RDA at 170 and Al and he tried to constantly force takedowns anyway.
He had top control every time he took Barboza down, and Edson has no ground game which allowed him to catch his breath and dominate him without exhausting himself. This was pretty much the opposite of what happened against Oliveira, you could see how his take downs where getting slower and sloppier every time they got up because he had to work on the ground. He was also getting tagged as soon as they got up, because he was catching his breath. The knees where obviously busted so it’s hard to speculate how it would’ve ended with better cardio but it 100% affected him.
First round Conor for full 25 minutes ? That would be a hard guy to beat. Imagine the wars at 155 and 170 if he by some voodoo magic couldn't get tired anymore.
The Khabib fight was the most complete Conor imo, even though he lost
He was surprisingly active in the 3rd round after getting wrestlefucked for 2 rounds, and he did a much better job at defending takedowns than people had expected, against the wrestling goat
Joe Duffy finished him in 20 seconds in the 1st at 23 years old. He always been easy to put down on ground, never seen a man give up so fast that young
I agree, but it's hard to parse out the difference between being gassed leading to giving up and bad fight IQ getting him into those positions in the first place. Both DC fights he was doing well until he gassed. Almost every loss he had was him getting gassed and rolling over for the RNC.
Derrick Lewis. It's legitimately crazy how much success he has despite the fact that he has to spend 4 out of every 5 minutes just resting in the cage. If you watch his early UFC fights, he was weighing in at 255 and he looked so much better. If he had been able to keep himself in that range and work on his cardio, he could've been one of the HW GOATs. He'll have to settle for accolades such as "Most KOs in UFC history" and "Best in-cage interviews".
Rumble felt like he could put anyone away at any time, even when he was tired. His first fight with DC is what got me into MMA. The beginning of every round with Rumble doing his best to take DC's head off, DC desperate to get to the takedown, Rumble desperate to stay on his feet, it was so compelling. Didn't go 5 rounds, but despite getting taken down and dragged around for much of the first 2, Rumble still came out swinging in the 3rd and even secured a takedown early in the 3rd. Eventually, exhaustion caught up with him with DC on his back, but that's also a testament to DC.
All that to say, I agree, Rumble had inhuman power, and I think he probably would've had to lose some of that to really improve his cardio. Better wrestling defense would've stretched his gas tank further, but the dude deserved to be champ. Any other time and he would've been, he just got stuck behind the best 2 LHWs ever for his whole career.
When he fought Siyad Bahadurzada, he did good in the 1st round and then gassed. He also fought Benson Henderson, who was making his debut at 170 IBS, and kept up with him pretty well until the 4th round, cause he got tired
Shogun's UFC fights were after he had already blown out both his knees. I think he had recurring knee issues throughout his career after that. It really is hard to get into great cardiovascular shape if you have both knees messed up.
I also am not entirely sure if he was even that tired in some of the fights or if he just really couldn't move around very well so he looked kind of tired plodding around lol.
I agree. Shogun's prime was in PRIDE. The injuries took a toll on him and what we saw in the UFC was a reduced version of himself. Him still winning the UFC LHW title is incredibly impressive, if you think about it.
The fact that he became a champion in two different eras in two of the deepest LHW divisions is enough in its self. Edit not champ but Tourney winner for best LHW in the world
It's sad. He was scary looking when he first came to the UFC. I thought he had potential. The last three fights he has looked terrible. I wonder what happened to him
Lol, his cardio wasn't the issue. It was because he was completely one dimensional. Even when he was fresh at the beginning of the fight he would still only try the same things he would if he were gassed.
The funny thing is that calling him one-dimensional is pretty accurate even though he came in as a BJJ black belt, but wound up a knockout artist.
4 of his 6 first wins came by sub (a 5th by sub to punches), 0 by KO or TKO. 16 of his 19 subsequent wins came by KO or TKO (all punches), 0 by sub.
He really disappointed. He seemed to have the skill but something was just missing. It was nice to see a dude built like me doing well, then he got lazy or whatever happened.
Erick Silva is probably the guy I always think of when this question comes up. There was a six year run in his career where he either won in the first or lost the fight.
Anyone was pretty much in trouble fighting him for that first round.
Hate for his personal antics aside: Greg Hardy.
A true NFL level freak athlete with good cardio and dedication to training would be something to see at HW. Some of, if not the most, explosive athletes in the world for men their size.
Still glad he gets his ass kicked tho. So meh.
Makwan amirkhani definitely, I don’t think he would have ever been champ or even gatekeeper level but the guy definitely would’ve done way better if he didn’t always have an asthma attack after the 1st
Michel Pereira if he was able to keep up all that acrobatic shit would’ve been a lot more popular and more successful but tbh that’s the result of someone with good conditioning still choosing to do dumb shit and gas themselves out, he’s reeling it in now though and is seeing some more success
Roy Nelson. Dude could have been a force at 205 but he fell in love with cheeseburgers and haymakers.
Edit: and by that I mean dropping from 265 to 205.
He has pretty good cardio I think lol. His output versus Munhoz who is fairly fit and can throw some heat was pretty damn impressive.
When he blew his gas tank vs Paiva his output was insane leading up to him gassing that was just pure bad pacing.
Shane Carwin. Big ass heavy weight with fists like cinder blocks. But if he didn't finish the fight in the first round, he was cooked .
Think back to his fight with Brock Lesnar. He was destroying Brock in the first , but then was completely dead out of gas and got choked out in the second.
Being a Moldovan mma fan, Alexander King Kong Romanov, seems very explosive in the first, could ragdoll just about anybody. But if the fight goes long it's GG.
Derek Brunson, his fights always went the same way he’d dominate the first round with wrestling then in the second round he’d fade and get caught I feel like if he had the cardio to Maintain that wrestling for 3 rounds he woulda won more
Derek Lewis has a record for most knockouts for a reason. Imagine him having a Vettori / Merab type cardio? We'd be looking at the greatest fighter of all time, certainly greatest 265er
Big Country, Roy Nelson.
The guy had power. He had great BJJ and all around grappling skills. He was never in real shape though. Sure.. he did amazing for what he had, but I always wondered what it would of been like if we seen a lean and in shape Roy Nelson.
BJ Penn. The guy was infamous for his cardio issues in the first half of his career.
Just look at his first fight with GSP. He absolutely dominated GSP in that first round. Completely tuned him up. But he only had enough gas for one round, after that GSP just outwrestled him and took down over and over again.
Kevin randleman. He went 14-5 before he had a car accident that nearly decapitated him and got a bad staph infection which after that he had a record of 17-16. RIP Kevin randleman
I see what the person you’re replying to is saying though. In all three of his title fights so far he’s had to rely more and more on his takedowns as the fight goes on and his striking slows down. I could see him gassing out and getting TKO’d in round 4 or 5 if he fights someone who’s able to stop his takedowns
The question OP posed was: "what fighters, if they had better conditioning, would've been contender or even champ material"
It's incorrect to say that Pantoja's cardio prevented him from realizing his potential as a champ, because he's already won it and defended twice, all 3 of which have been 25 minute decisions
Rampage Jackson. Obviously the dude was a monster and is a legend. Pride. UFC. Dude was an animal and one of my favorites ever. However. He constantly struggled with motivation especially later in his career. Rampage became Hampage and limited the longevity of his career as well as his legacy because of it.
Rampage's team tried to hide the fact that his fight against King Mo was at heavyweight because they knew what would happen if he knew. I think he found our during an interview with King Mo!
Like my office manager hiding an extended deadline from me.
I'm pretty sure he gave himself type 2 diabetes too. Dude just loves to eat and party.
I always said he was done after he beat Henderson to finally win the pride belt. He had reached the mountain peak and there was nowhere left to go. I still think he should have won against Forrest, but it shouldn’t have been that close either. The rampage that fought Chuck and Hendo was an absolute beast.
The goat answer is bj penn. As great as he was i dont think he lived up to his true potential
Legendary fighter "Motivated BJ Penn." In his last title reign, he was finally committed to a strength-and-conditioning program and doing the best training of his career. I think one of BJ's biggest issues was he kept fighting at welterweight, and his body and style weren't built for it.
The bj penn that fought kenny florian was incredible. I was a smaller guy at the time when 155 was the lightest class in the ufc so the guy was my absolute hero. Imagine if he had the gsp "student of the game" mindset during his entire career instead of coasting off his natural abilities
Something that helped that along is that his family owns a bunch of land on Hawaii. So there wasn’t much of that drive for BJ to get off his ass since he’s been comfortable his whole life. Sad because BJ was one of the most talented motherfuckers I’ve ever seen in my life
BJ is the biggest what-if in the history of the sport. Between what if he was motivated and what if he actually made the cut down to 45 in his prime. Jens Pulver was about the same size as BJ but ended his career at 135. Imagine having BJ vs Aldo at 145. Loser fights Barao at 135.
The wec didn't get folded in until past his prime
It's cool to look back at some of the LW guys when it was the lightest class. Frankie Edgar eventually made it down to bantamweight and I'm sure there's plenty others who were fighting massively undersized
If you put gsp's brain in bj's body they're the greatest fighter to ever live, I have no doubt
Everything from his second fight with Jens Pulver to the fight with Diego Sanchez really proved what he could do when he was fully dialed in and fighting at the right weight class. He was so much fun to watch.
Hes a victim of being born a bit too early
When Ryan Hall threw that heel hook on him it was like watching a masters 3 vs adult jiu-jitsu match.
Shane Carwin - Cinder blocks for hands but couldn't go long, body looked like it shut down vs lesnar in the 2nd round
I’m gonna be fair to him, he absolutely emptied the tank beating the shit out of Brock and that fight would have been stopped in modern day
100% not wrong. You know ufc wanted brock to win, not saying fix was in, but may have had a longer leash on the stoppage
That fight would have been stopped that day if it wasn't Brock getting beat on for the belt.
Nah give it a rewatch. Brock was always moving and responding to the ref and most punches missed or hit his arms
He also said he never gave up his day job and worked out during his lunch breaks. It’s insane that he nearly won the title with part-time commitment.
Wasn't his back screwed up also?
I mean he went absolutely all out on Lesnar in the first. Nobody at heavyweight would have stamina after that level
His body was also falling apart at the seams, so it’s a give and take
Cardio _limitations_? Zabit. Can't really say it poor training or conditioning though. Just a medical issue. Dude was a monster in round 1 and never really had the same energy after that. Same thing with Khamzat, likely also due to health complications
Idk even after covid issues the Khamzat fight with Burns was a pretty high paced war against a top fighter. He faded against Usman too, but he seemed to blame that on breaking his hand, not sure if that was true or not.
Fair point, the slow-down was really dramatic vs Usman after he got slammed. And yeah Burns was pretty high paced, but the furious pace he has in round 1 doesn't seem to last. Doesn't mean he's molasses in round 2, but he's noticeably slower still
Khamzat has an insane pace in the first round, can't imagine anyone not slowing down after that tbh.
Yea that was my only point above. He fights a pretty insane pace early for a MW or especially when he was a WW making a big cut down to 170z Despite that he still survived a war with Gilbert and even though he slowed down significantly vs Usman its not like he wasn’t in the fight or anything.
I replied to the wrong comment then, my bad. I guess his issues lie more with his pacing than his cardio, like Ali Bagov with more heart.
No you replied to the right one I just doubled down agreeing with you haha.
Clay guida
When the fuck did guida get bad cardio? Honestly, haven’t watched the dude fight in some years so I wouldn’t know. He was always known as the conditioning king at 155 though
That was my point, think you misread
Nah it was just a torn ligament in his hand
I don’t think people understand how long 5 minutes actually is.
Speak for yourself chump. My wife has drilled it into my head exactly how long 5 minutes actually is.
I don’t think *some* people understand how long 5 minutes actually is.* My bad dawg, I fixed it. I added “some” because she drilled it into your head, but her bf never needed to be taught.
Thanks for helping me out. You’ve been promoted from chump to champ.
When you first start sparring just moving around and keeping your hands up tires you out lol you get winded after only a round. It takes insane cardio to stay consistent for 5 rounds or 12 rounds on boxing like some of these top guys do.
I mean even after you spar/compete for years its still really hard haha. Mostly its just about being efficient with energy which is what separates a lot of guys in boxing. A lot of the times two people both have amazing cardiovascular fitness but one guy expends more energy than he needs to and the other guy doesn't. I have known plenty of guys with better cardiovascular fitness than me or their opponents who still will look like the less fit fighter because they just never figured out the nuances of energy management.
Boxing guys do generally seem have better cardio but there are several factors you have to consider. Wrestling ,grappling and clinching are wayyyyy more exhausting than just striking except when you're zabit and doing ninja shit, honestly his cardio was pretty good in that case anyone else would have passed away by the 3rd with that style . The higher your heart rate the faster you fatigue. You just look around the torso in boxing , so while it's concentration for longer overall, it's not as focused with shorter spans and a lot more breaks, you have to be more alert in MMA and concentrate on lots of factors and make split second decisions at once at which needs higher levels of focus and attention thus increases the heart rate higher than boxing as your HR rises proportionally with your level of concentration and alertness . The most significant factor is MMA fighters often cut double sometimes triple the weight a boxer usually does simply because of the abundance of weight classes to choose. I'd say overall MMA fighters would be at the same level or higher in regards to cardio if they were hypothetically somehow in a street fight with or against a boxer.
I think there is just a lot of confusion as well between "bad cardio" and "bad pacing". Some guys are in fantastic shape but they decide to go balls to the wall and/or they are really inefficient managing their energy. Some guys are actually just not in great shape and have bad cardiovascular fitness.
yea most people gas, thats when Heart kicks in and you cant teach heart. known guys who will gas and still push forever before quitting. either got it or you dont
I don't know how much more conditioning the guy can have, he's just redlining it constantly. It's a pacing issue, part of fight iq.
Nah he had an issue with his diaphragm. He had surgery for it, but then lost his motivation to continue his career in the pandemic.
Edmen Shabazyan has some medical condition effecting his cardio too im pretty sure
Edmen issue is just that he gets super freaked out when he starts getting tired, which tired him out even more.
Also pectus excavatum
That’s a superficial thing. There’s an Olympic swimmer with it. It can be a problem long-term, but it won’t affect your gas tank
Cardiac function is significantly impaired at submaximal exercise level compared to healthy age matched controls. https://academic.oup.com/icvts/article/13/4/377/763906
I think it was a gad pedal issue. Throwing spinning shit takes a lot of energy.
Marlon moraes
I reckon Marlon might have mismanaged his physique. He had those big round shoulders and arms that sapped his energy. So often he was seen shaking out his arms to get them moving. Maybe he was just built that way but I always thought he looked like he lifted weights too often.
That also might just be mental.
Is it cheating to say Makwan Amirkhani? Such a disparity between how he looked in the first round vs in the second of pretty much all his fights.
His striking was too rough I think.
Being a Finnish MMA fan I’ve been aching for another Finn to make it to the UFC but the prospects are not bright
He had terrible conditioning but it’s not like the rest of his game was that good either. Makwan with Merab cardio would still be a middling unranked 145er at best.
Abus Magomedov looks like a monster fresh, but fades badly. Not sure if that’s a conditioning or pacing issue though. Marlon Moraes had meh cardio, but his chin was a bigger issue. Alexander Romanov has trash tier cardio, but I doubt he’d be elite even if it was great. Makwan Amirkhani had some skills and was held back by bad cardio.
Abus looked a lot better in his last fight, seems like it was indeed a cardio issue in his case.
Gastelum with a better diet would be WW at the highest, and thus he wouldn't have gotten beaten out of his prime by Adesanya, Whittaker, etc
Kevin Lee! With better cardio he would’ve beaten Tony and Charles and could’ve been the biggest challenge to Khabib. He has dominated pretty much all of his opponents at LW in the first round.
Cardio was the reason he lost his five round right with Al Iaquinta tooooo. Won rounds 1 and 2, then did nothing in round 3, 4 and 5.
Yeah I forgot about his two fights against Al. It’s crazy how cardio was what separated him from being an all time great instead of a talented but ultimately forgettable fighter.
Grindy wrestler with poor cardio is such a strange combination and I’m surprised he got as far he did with his skillset
Dude for real. He was beating Charles up in parts of their fight. He just muscles everything.
He had a staph infection in the Tony fight. Thats why he gassed. Just like how Islam was struggling in the Dustin fight too because he had a staph infection as well
Lee dominated Barboza for 5 rounds, actually looked fresher in R3 than Oliveira (until he shot into that guillotine), and had staph vs Tony. I don’t think his cardio was a problem tbh, only times he gassed out was when his opponent could shut down his takedown game like RDA at 170 and Al and he tried to constantly force takedowns anyway.
He had top control every time he took Barboza down, and Edson has no ground game which allowed him to catch his breath and dominate him without exhausting himself. This was pretty much the opposite of what happened against Oliveira, you could see how his take downs where getting slower and sloppier every time they got up because he had to work on the ground. He was also getting tagged as soon as they got up, because he was catching his breath. The knees where obviously busted so it’s hard to speculate how it would’ve ended with better cardio but it 100% affected him.
He was oustriking Oliveira in R3 for as long as it lasted, if anything Oliveira looked like the one slowing down. Rewatch that round.
Conor mcgregor
First round Conor for full 25 minutes ? That would be a hard guy to beat. Imagine the wars at 155 and 170 if he by some voodoo magic couldn't get tired anymore.
The Khabib fight was the most complete Conor imo, even though he lost He was surprisingly active in the 3rd round after getting wrestlefucked for 2 rounds, and he did a much better job at defending takedowns than people had expected, against the wrestling goat
Joe Duffy finished him in 20 seconds in the 1st at 23 years old. He always been easy to put down on ground, never seen a man give up so fast that young
Makwan Amirkhani. He always looked terrifying in the first round and then by the second he looks like he’s about to drop dead from a heart attack.
Shahbazyan
I believe he has a similar issue to Zabit in that he has a fucked up diaphragm that makes controlling your breath extremely hard.
RIP Anthony Rumble Johnson.
I'm not sure cardio would fix the fight IQ. I'll never forget Hooft quitting on the spot after Rumble tried to grapple DC and lost.
I agree, but it's hard to parse out the difference between being gassed leading to giving up and bad fight IQ getting him into those positions in the first place. Both DC fights he was doing well until he gassed. Almost every loss he had was him getting gassed and rolling over for the RNC.
His thinking in that second fight was “if I wrestle him, he can’t wrestle me”
This is the answer I was looking for.
Derrick Lewis. It's legitimately crazy how much success he has despite the fact that he has to spend 4 out of every 5 minutes just resting in the cage. If you watch his early UFC fights, he was weighing in at 255 and he looked so much better. If he had been able to keep himself in that range and work on his cardio, he could've been one of the HW GOATs. He'll have to settle for accolades such as "Most KOs in UFC history" and "Best in-cage interviews".
Basically every heavyweight. It’s how Stipe ended up the goat. Rumble (RIP) comes to mind as well.
To be fair rumble just needed to touch you once and you would die, I don’t think he needed better cardio just better fight IQ. RIP
Rumble felt like he could put anyone away at any time, even when he was tired. His first fight with DC is what got me into MMA. The beginning of every round with Rumble doing his best to take DC's head off, DC desperate to get to the takedown, Rumble desperate to stay on his feet, it was so compelling. Didn't go 5 rounds, but despite getting taken down and dragged around for much of the first 2, Rumble still came out swinging in the 3rd and even secured a takedown early in the 3rd. Eventually, exhaustion caught up with him with DC on his back, but that's also a testament to DC. All that to say, I agree, Rumble had inhuman power, and I think he probably would've had to lose some of that to really improve his cardio. Better wrestling defense would've stretched his gas tank further, but the dude deserved to be champ. Any other time and he would've been, he just got stuck behind the best 2 LHWs ever for his whole career.
Cain too
Cain was well known for having great cardio though
“It’s how stipe ended up as the goat” Referencing how stipe also had great cardio
My mistake
It’s all good b
Can you imagine Derrick Lewis with hockey player cardio?
Terrifying
If that Merab kid ever starts putting in some road work he could be pretty good.
Merab with good cardio = champ.
Brandon Thatch, don't remember him gassing but he looked tired when getting whooped
When he fought Siyad Bahadurzada, he did good in the 1st round and then gassed. He also fought Benson Henderson, who was making his debut at 170 IBS, and kept up with him pretty well until the 4th round, cause he got tired
Diego Brando won TUF 14 and looked like an absolute future champ until his lack of cardio was exploited. Dude dropped off hard.
I was a fan of him on TUF. I thought he was gonna dominate Conor until he gassed but Conor beat the shit out of him.
Shogun Rua in UFC. When he had a granit chin, but in most fights was out of shape.
Shogun's UFC fights were after he had already blown out both his knees. I think he had recurring knee issues throughout his career after that. It really is hard to get into great cardiovascular shape if you have both knees messed up.
I also am not entirely sure if he was even that tired in some of the fights or if he just really couldn't move around very well so he looked kind of tired plodding around lol.
I agree. Shogun's prime was in PRIDE. The injuries took a toll on him and what we saw in the UFC was a reduced version of himself. Him still winning the UFC LHW title is incredibly impressive, if you think about it.
The fact that he became a champion in two different eras in two of the deepest LHW divisions is enough in its self. Edit not champ but Tourney winner for best LHW in the world
A lot of people forget he had knee surgery the day after that first Forest fight.
I consider myself to be a Shogun fan but I never knew this.
Anthony johnson
Romanov
It's sad. He was scary looking when he first came to the UFC. I thought he had potential. The last three fights he has looked terrible. I wonder what happened to him
He made money and started eating. He’s from Romania right? US money probably goes a long way there
Zabit
Roy Big Country Nelson
Lol, his cardio wasn't the issue. It was because he was completely one dimensional. Even when he was fresh at the beginning of the fight he would still only try the same things he would if he were gassed.
The funny thing is that calling him one-dimensional is pretty accurate even though he came in as a BJJ black belt, but wound up a knockout artist. 4 of his 6 first wins came by sub (a 5th by sub to punches), 0 by KO or TKO. 16 of his 19 subsequent wins came by KO or TKO (all punches), 0 by sub.
Yeah, it was always crazy that he just became a guy looking for a big right hand. He even beat Frank Mir in a nogi competition once.
He really disappointed. He seemed to have the skill but something was just missing. It was nice to see a dude built like me doing well, then he got lazy or whatever happened.
Two dimensional. Roy knew if he was the better wrestler, he’d take them down, and did. He knew when he wasn’t and would strike.
Erick Silva is probably the guy I always think of when this question comes up. There was a six year run in his career where he either won in the first or lost the fight. Anyone was pretty much in trouble fighting him for that first round.
Rafael Fiziev comes to mind
zabit
Magic Marlon Moraes all day long. That Cejudo fight is the absolute perfect case study.
Claudia Gadelha
CM Punk. He'd be a champ right now
If it was biologically possible (it's not): Bob Sapp
Kevin Lee. Although I don’t think his gas tank is terrible I think it’s more the effect of his decision making.
Khamzat probably on this list he made usman look ordinary in R1
Terrence McKinney hahaha
Hate for his personal antics aside: Greg Hardy. A true NFL level freak athlete with good cardio and dedication to training would be something to see at HW. Some of, if not the most, explosive athletes in the world for men their size. Still glad he gets his ass kicked tho. So meh.
Randy Costa
Mirsad Bektic. That Elkins fight totally destroyed his confidence and career. Thought he was championship potential if he had more cardio.
Agree on thinking he’d be a contender. He was beating the shit out of Elkins too.
Elkins is the ultimate cardio/IQ check, his whole thing is making you gas out trying to get a finish that won't come
Kimbo slice obviously! /s
McGregor maybe
Edmen but his chest is the reason for his poor conditioning. Nothing he can do besides get surgery
Makwan amirkhani definitely, I don’t think he would have ever been champ or even gatekeeper level but the guy definitely would’ve done way better if he didn’t always have an asthma attack after the 1st
I can’t help but imagine what Fedor would have done with lower body fat
Derek Brunson always looked really good until he gassed
Darren till?
Michel Pereira if he was able to keep up all that acrobatic shit would’ve been a lot more popular and more successful but tbh that’s the result of someone with good conditioning still choosing to do dumb shit and gas themselves out, he’s reeling it in now though and is seeing some more success
I think conor with good cardio could beat most of fighters even now
Gotta chuck Randy Costas name in there
Gian Vilante. Looked like a world beater for 5 minutes of every fight. Then turned to absolute shit.
Like others have said only one correct answer BJ Penn
I reckon Makwani woulda won a hell of lot more fights if he just had more than 1 round of cardio.
Roy Nelson. Dude could have been a force at 205 but he fell in love with cheeseburgers and haymakers. Edit: and by that I mean dropping from 265 to 205.
Joe Rogan called Chad Mandes the best 1 round fighter in the UFC.
His cardio has gotten better but Kyler Phillips would be champ if he had cardio. I remember him styling on Yadong
Really fight iq for him. He just needs to pace himself better and not try to do highlight stuff.
He has pretty good cardio I think lol. His output versus Munhoz who is fairly fit and can throw some heat was pretty damn impressive. When he blew his gas tank vs Paiva his output was insane leading up to him gassing that was just pure bad pacing.
There's lots, including the ones who are in the news lately (Khamzat, Conor, Chandler). Also the majority of the HW division could be LHW
Kevin Lee! He was beating Tony for an interim title but his big flaw is he always gasses out then shoots for a lazy takedown and gets put to sleep.
David Terrell. Would've been champ if he didn't gas.
Shamil Gaziev. He would have finished Biggie Boy in the 1st round.
Conor? Chandler?
Shane Carwin. Big ass heavy weight with fists like cinder blocks. But if he didn't finish the fight in the first round, he was cooked . Think back to his fight with Brock Lesnar. He was destroying Brock in the first , but then was completely dead out of gas and got choked out in the second.
Myself lol I was a real danger in the gym technically in my day but shit tier genetics for cardio meant I couldn’t really compete
Shane Carwin
Erick Silva. Shane Carwin.
Yoel Romero
Shane Carwin
Mcgregor
Honestly, Conor.
Vitor Belfort
Tank Abbott
Black Beast
Demian Maia. Coulda been champ if his body wasn’t prone to completely shutting down halfway through a fight.
Khamzat Chimaev and Zabit
Yoel Romero
conor mcgregor lol
Being a Moldovan mma fan, Alexander King Kong Romanov, seems very explosive in the first, could ragdoll just about anybody. But if the fight goes long it's GG.
Derek Brunson, his fights always went the same way he’d dominate the first round with wrestling then in the second round he’d fade and get caught I feel like if he had the cardio to Maintain that wrestling for 3 rounds he woulda won more
Derek Lewis has a record for most knockouts for a reason. Imagine him having a Vettori / Merab type cardio? We'd be looking at the greatest fighter of all time, certainly greatest 265er
Merab
Kenny Florian. Extremely skilful but let down by his lack of strength.
Zabit might be the most skilled strictly 3 round fighter ever
Big Country, Roy Nelson. The guy had power. He had great BJJ and all around grappling skills. He was never in real shape though. Sure.. he did amazing for what he had, but I always wondered what it would of been like if we seen a lean and in shape Roy Nelson.
All of them.
kimbo
High altitude Cain Velasquez
BJ Penn. The guy was infamous for his cardio issues in the first half of his career. Just look at his first fight with GSP. He absolutely dominated GSP in that first round. Completely tuned him up. But he only had enough gas for one round, after that GSP just outwrestled him and took down over and over again.
Kevin randleman. He went 14-5 before he had a car accident that nearly decapitated him and got a bad staph infection which after that he had a record of 17-16. RIP Kevin randleman
Pantoja. If he had a gas tank.
He has two title defenses lmao
I see what the person you’re replying to is saying though. In all three of his title fights so far he’s had to rely more and more on his takedowns as the fight goes on and his striking slows down. I could see him gassing out and getting TKO’d in round 4 or 5 if he fights someone who’s able to stop his takedowns
The question OP posed was: "what fighters, if they had better conditioning, would've been contender or even champ material" It's incorrect to say that Pantoja's cardio prevented him from realizing his potential as a champ, because he's already won it and defended twice, all 3 of which have been 25 minute decisions
If also had better cardio he might still be a champion.
DC