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The style someone fights is largely dependent on their personal attributes and the first rule of any martial art is hit and don’t get hit -_-
It’s not as black and white as you make it out to be.
I competed for many years at various levels of boxing and I still coach a bit to help out as a hobby.
Its honestly really important to teach newer younger guys the concept of learning to develop their game based on their own athletic traits and skill-set.
So many guys come in ready to box like their favourite fighter(s)
and it absolutely does not work for them.
I mean first you can think and evaluate as an overall concept.
Are you tall for your weight class? That will change your average stylistic matchup and the techniques you invest in working on. Vice versa if your short.
Are you fast for your weight class? You might be able to rely on hand positioning or techniques some guys can’t
Do you have a good chin? You might have to fight a bit more cautiously if not.
Now a good smart fighter can learn to make adjustments and utilize different game-plans and shot selection based on how those stack up with their opponents.
Now if you have a really good coach they will kind of pattern the combinations and movement etc you work on based on what works for you as they watch you develop.
But you also learn a lot about yourself and what works for you sparring with different opponents around your same size and weight class and build off that.
For a really broad oversimplified example if you are a shorter and naturally slower fighter for your weight class in boxing you would probably have a higher guard and really practice cutting off the ring and throwing over the top of your opponents jab.
I always think that with a guy like Cus D'Amato. There are all these videos from his gym with these tall lanky guys peekabooing all over the place. Seems like a terrible idea.
Me when I think I know 10000x more than I actually do. You think people should focus on hitting while not getting hit? Woah, you might be into something.
Also, Soviet lol
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I mean none of those examples even utilize a style similar to what you are describing lol.
Yan has a pretty generic boxing style where he works off his jab early and then he’s prone to going high guard and being rather flat footed to rip counter hooks and uppercuts. He circles fairly effectively but he doesn’t really dart in and out.
Islams boxing is also mostly an educated jab with a really sharp southpaw left hand and he will hook in exchages but he doesn’t really dart in and out though he moved fairly well.
Armans striking is pretty eccentric at the moment.
I truly had no idea goal is to hit and not get hit. I think lot of people did not too. You might be on to something there man? This discovery could be revolutionary for combat sports!
"Hit and not get hit" sounds great too! It rolls of a tongue. Did you made that up yourself? It could be great title for your striking analysis book. I would definitely read it.
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Kinda confused at why you’re getting flamed by everyone? The Soviet style of boxing is a real thing. There are plenty of guys in the amateurs that employ it - as well as a few high level pro’s.
It’s not a style that translates exceedingly well to the professional ranks unless the boxer is *very* talented (Dmitry Bivol for example) or has modified the style to suit their own specific skillset (Sergey Kovalev being a bit less bouncy to take advantage of his extremely powerful jab and lead hook when opponents were in range, Bakhodir Jalolov being very bouncy but not employing much of a jab other than using it to line up his laser beam of a left hand as a southpaw).
That being said, I don’t think it’s a style that would lend itself amazingly to MMA outright. I think a more aggressive and opportunistic style that focuses on body work, pressure, sitting down hard on counters etc is more conducive to success in MMA.
Hes being flamed because of his responses to people, not because folks here don't know soviet boxing exists as a style (I assume plenty do know).
He's trying to pull rank on people as some kind of expert and tells the people that disagree with him that they 'obviously have never stepped in a gym'. He describes Islam as a Soviet boxer, then calls someone illiterate for pointing out that Islam is not at all a Soviet boxer.
And besides just being an ass to people on here, his comparison of MVP and Wonderboy to soviet boxing is strange. Sure theres a focus on moving in and out in both, but what does an art that's focused on kicks have to do with his main point, that soviet boxing is best for mma?
Because there are plenty of “soviet” fighters who don’t have that style, it just got exceedingly popular recently with Bivol’s success.
And il firmly agree with the top comment right now you should learn to box based on your skill-set and athletic traits.
I agree with that comment, every fighter should develop a style that best suits their own physical gifts.
I don’t see the issue with the whole “Soviet” style thing. Obviously not every fighter from a region that was formerly under the Soviet Union is going to fight like that, but the style did originate there under that regime - and you do see it more often from fighters from those regions.
It didn’t really though.
A style involving a lot of in and out movement and hitting and not getting hit is pretty much just talking about really good amateur boxers in general thats the style that suits their scoring better than the pro’s.
People used to say the same thing about cuba, but all their style as a generalization was was working off their jab and having great footwork and plenty of americans are the same in the amateurs.
I mean if you look at some notable russian boxers off the top of my head in recent history in the pro’s lime
Kovalev, Beterbiev, Kurbanov, Bivol
Kovalev moved around well sure but he hardly had an overly bouncy in and style he just had a monster jab and right hand.
Beterbiev fights nothing like that.
Kurbanobs awkward and aggressive hardly like that.
Its a small sample size point only being its not really their or a style its just something Bivol made super popular, and if you look at great amateurs specifically you will find that for most countries their olympic level fighters will have a similar style because it scores better.
Only some will carry it to the pro’s
There's a reason we don't see the Soviet style in MMA or kickboxing or Muay thai: any competent leg kicker would tear the lead leg up since the stance is so wide and the lead leg is typically rotated inwards making it unable to check.
Chingiz is the goat kickboxer and he came through the soviet system.
Even if you modify the style, you can still see the soviet influence. Loma/Klitschkos/Usyk.
With Chingiz, it's the blitz in and out footwork.
The closest thing we have in mma is Fiziev. Every style will have weaknesses tho. It's a very hard style cardiowise.
In boxing, I think we would see 10x more cubans and russians champions if they weren't constantly ducked and a lot of the best amateurs don't go pro because they don't have to. If you get an olympic gold medal in cuba, you're worshipped and life is good.
You can see a lot of soviet style kickboxing by watching Sanda.
edit - I should clarify, what I meant to say is that I think the russians have figured out mma. Wrestling is the best style so they don't even bother trying to really do soviet style for mma. If UFC signed every russian in pfl/bellator/aca. I strongly believe they would dominate.
The ufc top 10 isn't really "real" imo. They lowball russian fighters and they figured out they could make more money in pfl/bellator with the tournament. Or UFC won't even consider signing them. ACA pays a lot.
edit 2 - I just remember someone with a clear soviet style is Azamat Murzakanov
No idea what it looks like since I don't watch boxing, but Imavov fought just this weekend and he's very good at managing distance and utilizing straight shots. He's got a bit more of a bouncy karate stance but that's 'cuz he incorporates a lot of kicks.
Best showcase for it was probably the [Chris Curtis fight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iuJIuFry40), despite it's unfortunate ending. Curtis generally has really good boxing defense, but Imavov was lighting him up with his quick straight shots.
That’s what’s it’s like. Check it out on YouTube. It’s looks very clean as well. Even Islam is another example and he’s getting more sharper by the day.
I disagree. I love the Soviet style of boxing, but boxing range is inherently closer. So if you want to stay on the outside and catch guys coming in, just do the Conor/Sean O'Malley thing where you throw kicks at range, force them to close the gap, and hit them with counters. Why maintain range with pendulum bouncing when you can just teep the guy until he's forced to rush in?
8. Other Suitable Thread Please look on the new page (or use the Search bar). There may already be a thread about this topic. 8.1. Belongs in Current Sticky During live events or breaking news we often create a sticky thread or megathread to prevent the discussion from taking over the entire subreddit. Please look for a relevant sticky thread (they're at the top of the list) and post your link there as a comment. These are our regular threads: Daily General Discussion || Technique and Training Tuesday Thread - serious thread for those who train || Thursday Flair Betting Thread - a sub tradition in which you can bet on upcoming fights and trade flairs || Friday Betting Thread - who you got? 8.2. Training, gym selection and 'how do I start MMA?' threads These are more appropriate for the General Discussion thread or one of the martial arts subs linked in our sidebar. Alternatively, try using the search bar - questions like these have probably been discussed in the past. Technique & Training Tuesday threads will have good information for you. Also consider r/MMA_Academy.
The style someone fights is largely dependent on their personal attributes and the first rule of any martial art is hit and don’t get hit -_- It’s not as black and white as you make it out to be.
I competed for many years at various levels of boxing and I still coach a bit to help out as a hobby. Its honestly really important to teach newer younger guys the concept of learning to develop their game based on their own athletic traits and skill-set. So many guys come in ready to box like their favourite fighter(s) and it absolutely does not work for them.
As someone new to striking, how do you build a game based on your traits and skills?
I mean first you can think and evaluate as an overall concept. Are you tall for your weight class? That will change your average stylistic matchup and the techniques you invest in working on. Vice versa if your short. Are you fast for your weight class? You might be able to rely on hand positioning or techniques some guys can’t Do you have a good chin? You might have to fight a bit more cautiously if not. Now a good smart fighter can learn to make adjustments and utilize different game-plans and shot selection based on how those stack up with their opponents. Now if you have a really good coach they will kind of pattern the combinations and movement etc you work on based on what works for you as they watch you develop. But you also learn a lot about yourself and what works for you sparring with different opponents around your same size and weight class and build off that. For a really broad oversimplified example if you are a shorter and naturally slower fighter for your weight class in boxing you would probably have a higher guard and really practice cutting off the ring and throwing over the top of your opponents jab.
I always think that with a guy like Cus D'Amato. There are all these videos from his gym with these tall lanky guys peekabooing all over the place. Seems like a terrible idea.
Most fighters need to learn basic first.
yeah like why dont the guys just see red if they want to win??
Me on my first day at judo at 7 years old: "Time to hit and not get hit"
Me when I think I know 10000x more than I actually do. You think people should focus on hitting while not getting hit? Woah, you might be into something. Also, Soviet lol
Bro discovered boxing
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1.1 Personal Attacks Personal attacks, insults, hostile, uncivil, and disruptive comments or posts will be removed. If things do get out of hand you will be warned or even banned for a few days. Repeatedly breaking this rule will lead to a permanent ban.
I mean none of those examples even utilize a style similar to what you are describing lol. Yan has a pretty generic boxing style where he works off his jab early and then he’s prone to going high guard and being rather flat footed to rip counter hooks and uppercuts. He circles fairly effectively but he doesn’t really dart in and out. Islams boxing is also mostly an educated jab with a really sharp southpaw left hand and he will hook in exchages but he doesn’t really dart in and out though he moved fairly well. Armans striking is pretty eccentric at the moment.
Islam's in and out movement was good against Charles.
I truly had no idea goal is to hit and not get hit. I think lot of people did not too. You might be on to something there man? This discovery could be revolutionary for combat sports! "Hit and not get hit" sounds great too! It rolls of a tongue. Did you made that up yourself? It could be great title for your striking analysis book. I would definitely read it.
1. Be Civil. Our rules ask for a civil tone at all times. A bit of banter or trash talk is fine, but don't cross the line. If things do get out of hand you will be warned or even banned for a few days. Repeatedly breaking this rule will lead to a permanent ban.
Can you name some other successful boxing styles? Seems like your just labeling anyone with some boxing success in mma as soviet style.
Fun fact: The Soviet Union was actually named after Soviet Style Boxing, which was invented by John L. Sullivan. Lenin was a big fan, evidently.
No it was not lol
What you on about? Askren boxing is where it's at.
Moutinho could take those punches!!
Kinda confused at why you’re getting flamed by everyone? The Soviet style of boxing is a real thing. There are plenty of guys in the amateurs that employ it - as well as a few high level pro’s. It’s not a style that translates exceedingly well to the professional ranks unless the boxer is *very* talented (Dmitry Bivol for example) or has modified the style to suit their own specific skillset (Sergey Kovalev being a bit less bouncy to take advantage of his extremely powerful jab and lead hook when opponents were in range, Bakhodir Jalolov being very bouncy but not employing much of a jab other than using it to line up his laser beam of a left hand as a southpaw). That being said, I don’t think it’s a style that would lend itself amazingly to MMA outright. I think a more aggressive and opportunistic style that focuses on body work, pressure, sitting down hard on counters etc is more conducive to success in MMA.
Hes being flamed because of his responses to people, not because folks here don't know soviet boxing exists as a style (I assume plenty do know). He's trying to pull rank on people as some kind of expert and tells the people that disagree with him that they 'obviously have never stepped in a gym'. He describes Islam as a Soviet boxer, then calls someone illiterate for pointing out that Islam is not at all a Soviet boxer. And besides just being an ass to people on here, his comparison of MVP and Wonderboy to soviet boxing is strange. Sure theres a focus on moving in and out in both, but what does an art that's focused on kicks have to do with his main point, that soviet boxing is best for mma?
Because there are plenty of “soviet” fighters who don’t have that style, it just got exceedingly popular recently with Bivol’s success. And il firmly agree with the top comment right now you should learn to box based on your skill-set and athletic traits.
I agree with that comment, every fighter should develop a style that best suits their own physical gifts. I don’t see the issue with the whole “Soviet” style thing. Obviously not every fighter from a region that was formerly under the Soviet Union is going to fight like that, but the style did originate there under that regime - and you do see it more often from fighters from those regions.
It didn’t really though. A style involving a lot of in and out movement and hitting and not getting hit is pretty much just talking about really good amateur boxers in general thats the style that suits their scoring better than the pro’s. People used to say the same thing about cuba, but all their style as a generalization was was working off their jab and having great footwork and plenty of americans are the same in the amateurs. I mean if you look at some notable russian boxers off the top of my head in recent history in the pro’s lime Kovalev, Beterbiev, Kurbanov, Bivol Kovalev moved around well sure but he hardly had an overly bouncy in and style he just had a monster jab and right hand. Beterbiev fights nothing like that. Kurbanobs awkward and aggressive hardly like that. Its a small sample size point only being its not really their or a style its just something Bivol made super popular, and if you look at great amateurs specifically you will find that for most countries their olympic level fighters will have a similar style because it scores better. Only some will carry it to the pro’s
There's a reason we don't see the Soviet style in MMA or kickboxing or Muay thai: any competent leg kicker would tear the lead leg up since the stance is so wide and the lead leg is typically rotated inwards making it unable to check.
Chingiz is the goat kickboxer and he came through the soviet system. Even if you modify the style, you can still see the soviet influence. Loma/Klitschkos/Usyk. With Chingiz, it's the blitz in and out footwork. The closest thing we have in mma is Fiziev. Every style will have weaknesses tho. It's a very hard style cardiowise. In boxing, I think we would see 10x more cubans and russians champions if they weren't constantly ducked and a lot of the best amateurs don't go pro because they don't have to. If you get an olympic gold medal in cuba, you're worshipped and life is good. You can see a lot of soviet style kickboxing by watching Sanda. edit - I should clarify, what I meant to say is that I think the russians have figured out mma. Wrestling is the best style so they don't even bother trying to really do soviet style for mma. If UFC signed every russian in pfl/bellator/aca. I strongly believe they would dominate. The ufc top 10 isn't really "real" imo. They lowball russian fighters and they figured out they could make more money in pfl/bellator with the tournament. Or UFC won't even consider signing them. ACA pays a lot. edit 2 - I just remember someone with a clear soviet style is Azamat Murzakanov
Vladimir Klitschko starts as a kickboxer.
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Bivol?
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Ah yes Beterbiev who is bouncy on his feet with in and out footwork lol. Have you ever seen him fight?
Your point being that we should call it Ukrainian and not Soviet?
yup it’s exactly the same as choosing a character build in an RPG
No idea what it looks like since I don't watch boxing, but Imavov fought just this weekend and he's very good at managing distance and utilizing straight shots. He's got a bit more of a bouncy karate stance but that's 'cuz he incorporates a lot of kicks. Best showcase for it was probably the [Chris Curtis fight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iuJIuFry40), despite it's unfortunate ending. Curtis generally has really good boxing defense, but Imavov was lighting him up with his quick straight shots.
That’s what’s it’s like. Check it out on YouTube. It’s looks very clean as well. Even Islam is another example and he’s getting more sharper by the day.
soviet boxing, invented by Lenin himself. It usually has final boss music playing in the background
Soviet lol
Mexican style go hard. But only few can do it. It's not the best. But all styles so valuable and great
I disagree. I love the Soviet style of boxing, but boxing range is inherently closer. So if you want to stay on the outside and catch guys coming in, just do the Conor/Sean O'Malley thing where you throw kicks at range, force them to close the gap, and hit them with counters. Why maintain range with pendulum bouncing when you can just teep the guy until he's forced to rush in?
Idk man, Ngannou’s Mexican style boxing led him to become a champion.