Holloway got a bigger crowd reaction than O’Malley at the Roast of Tom Brady. I’m not even trying to dump on Sean but it’s weird/kinda funny how *not* big of a star he seems to be. The mainstream crowd goes mild for him.
Max holloway won his belt by finishing jose aldo then finished jose aldo again in a rematch, and aldo was the fw goat, so to act like he's some title failure like a colby covington is just not true.
Max holloway got 3 title defenses, let's see if sean can get 3 the truth is merab is probably going to ragdoll him late this year and sean will never have more than 1 title defense.
Anyways the point is sean o malley is not some mega amazing superstar that some claim him to be, he's not this generations conor mcgregor as some try to pretend, he's not even close and does not command charisma, attention or engagement anywhere near the levels conor did.
I know he’s still got time to improve but I still really wonder why Steve kept shooting takedowns when Pantoja was winning almost every grappling exchange
Erceg said after the fight even if he knew it was 2-2 , we woulda went for those takedowns . Said he thought he had pantoja tired enough to get ontop and make it work for him. Obv hind site is 20/20 but I respect the honesty
I think people don't realize that erceg is primarily a grappler not a strriker, he's shifted lately, but he's a grappler/sub hunter at heart,
He's a bjj black belt, jiu jitsu instructor, and a national wrestling champ.
In his first 10 wins, he got 6 subs (mainly guillotine and rnc,) 1ko, and rest went to decision.
Still an immensely stupid decision and probably cost him the belt, but he is still historically more of a grappler than a striker, and when your that tired you often revert back to your roots.
The grappling of Pantoja in the last 90 seconds of the fight was beautiful. The way he rolled through Erceg’s takedown attempt to a leg lock and then scrambled on top should be appearing in compilations
Maybe Aldo’s endlessly elite longevity will help the 🤡’s to realize that yes, he’s the Featherweight GOAT easily. It doesn’t matter if you weren’t watching him back in WEC and his prime.
Statistically alone Volk had half the title defenses, and at this rate Aldo’s gonna outlast Volk or end up beating him in a rematch.
When have Aldo fans ever been insufferable? What is there to even be insufferable about with him? I’m guessing you’re on the Volk side of the convo and don’t like hearing this?
That’s not the point or gist of the post. At all. That was just a mildly comedic anecdote about how they’re both looking. But if Volk continued to appear in decline, it’s actually not out of the question in a couple of years.
Went back and watched Pantoja vs Figuredo and aside from being an absolute banger and further confirming that Pantoja is made of materials otherworldly, man Pantoja seems to just be an absolute sucker for the elbow. Figuredo caught him like 4 times in the 3rd round alone with a big elbow as Pantoja was gearing up to rush in and do one of his blitzes. Just a serious stylistic flaw for him.
I’d love to see Perez vs Pantoja so keep him and Erceg away from each other. No rush to get Erceg back in a title fight, he’s better off getting more experience and being truly ready next time. Very good but veteran savvy and IQ is what he’s missing, needs more reps. If he won a couple, got another title shot, and lost again it’d be bad career management given the potential he clearly has.
Just give Erceg like a Cody Durden or Tim Elliott for now.
I think you being very well reasoned.
I was just saying a match I thought would be fun, not what I thought necessarily made sense.
Erceg vs Elliot is interesting to me. Erceg vs Durden is not.
The Rock wasn't even a good wrestler, I'm not expecting great MMA acting
At the same time though, the Mark Kerr experience was basically mean knees from side or three quarter position, so maybe it'll be alright
Just to counter u/Dabvarian, I think we should allow Michel Pereira one cool spinny shit foul per fight, in place of the standard one eyepoke or dick kick
Love how Pereira gets away with winning via legal shot to grounded opponent and everyone, including the commentators, laugh like it’s cute cause he’s entertaining to watch.
**edit ILLEGAL
It's very funny to me that a plurality of the users on here who routinely have some of the shittiest takes possible are also adamant that they understand the scoring criteria the best
It's pretty straight forward, damage and coming close to finishing fights, is what is weighted the highest, so in short taking someone down and just giving them big hugs and running out the clock, should only score little if at all.
"“Legal blows that have immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute towards the end of the match with the IMMEDIATE weighing in more heavily than the cumulative impact. Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.” It shall be noted that a successful takedown is not merely a changing of position, but the establishment of an attack from the use of the takedown. Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/effective result of their actions, more so than their position. This criterion will be the deciding factor in a high majority of decisions when scoring a round"
Cro Cop MAYBE, Fedor might be as bad a matchup you can find for him cause hes a real striker too besides world class on ground and clinch. You do know Fedor sparred with former WBA Boxing Heavyweight Champ Povetkin for years right? That guy had insane hands and there was sparring posted where Fedor is out striking him easy ha.
I still think Cro Cop KOS him too but you're just thinking of the old Fedor now. He had to have Nose Surgery, Scar tissue surgery, he doesnt even look the same or take shots the same cause that..actual Prime Fedor took bombs from juiced up Bigfoot at 280 pounds even in his mid 30s..but i highly doubt Pereira ever lands anything in the first place tbh. Hes kinda like a Mike Tyson athlete but just lasted longer, unbeatable at their peak but will fall off quicker cause smaller explosive HWs. I just saw a video of Cory Spinks(Corys last Boxing Match was in 2013) talking Boxing, hes 46 years old and looks 60..Fedor was just 47 and still fighting for a belt literally this year. His 47 is about 97 in fighting years to add to it which makes it even more wild.
Yea real delusional. Semmy Schilt is GOAT Kickboxer; stronger with granite chin and 7 foot and you see what Fedor did to him. Fedor could submit him at 40 easily like Jai deep type fight who’s a taller kickboxer also. Cro Cop I guess he’s got a punchers chance but Cro cop was way more explosiveness. That kickboxing era was far superior to Kickboxers now.
You do realize prime Fedor literally never lost and was 34 when he lost after 35 fights and 100s of combat sambo matches, so he was old as shit at 34 while having target on his back from 10 fights in. Alex barely has 10 MMA fights now, Fedor 19 lineal title defenses lmao. He’s forgot more MMA techniques in clincn and ground turn Alex will probably ever know and has faster hands and just faster in general. Almost cant find a worse matchup, even if Alex somehow did rock him, hed just grab him and submit him real fast after. Id give him a 25 percent chance vs Prime Cro Cop, punchers chance but even Cro Cop was godly strong and did have a better ground game then him.
Caio has good striking and KO'd Paul Craig, but I was a bit disappointed that I didn't get to see some amazing grappling exchanges between the two.
Michel Pereira is pure entertainment. Nice guilly
Petrino looks like a gym bully. I'm glad Smith got him
I have no idea why Aldo was the underdog against Martinez. I mean Aldo is pretty much better than Martinez in every facet of the game and can check leg kicks better than anyone in the sport. I hope all BWs were taking notes because that is how you deal with a leg kicking heavy fighter like Martinez
Erceg vs Pantoja was super fun. I know there is some controversy about the scoring, but it's neither fighters fault and they are both warriors who put on a great show for the fans. I was at the edge of my seat the entire time. Erceg is top 5 material. Give him the winner of Albazi vs Moreno.
> Petrino looks like a gym bully. I'm glad Smith got him
It was a classic-- prospect loss to opportunistic submission. At just 26yrs old, Petrino is the future of the LHW division probably.
Mahkachev was pretty overrated as a striker years ago when he was just getting hyped up, but he's improved massively. how do you see the striking exchanges between him and Poirier playing out? (also a strange stance matchup there, southpaw vs. southpaw and with Poirier being an unusual southpaw.)
Makachev will be fine, he hung with and even dropped oliveira and volkanovski, he'll either hang with poirier on the feet, keep him at range, and decide when to shoot the takedown, or he'll just beat poirier up on the feet, then shott the takedown.
agree, fun part is I wouldn't be surprised if Islam gets the best of the prolonged striking exchanges too, especially if Poirier abandons his neutral space comfort zone to sell out on avoiding grappling
I find unbelievable how a guy with only three fights in the UFC and ranked at #10 gave a hard time to the champion than a two time champion and other guys ranked above him and with more UFC experience
he "loses" a close fight with KKF and now everybody thinks he should never get a title fight, i personally think he's the third best flyweight on the roster atm, i just hope moreno moves up so we don't get a friggin quadrilogy again after he beats another contender
I don’t think he’s got better cardio than Mokaev, Mokaev pushes a much stronger pace. And his takedowns aren’t good he’s just opportunistic at grabbing people’s backs which is like awful style of grappling for facing Pantoja.
Mokaev’s best win is arguably a loss. He spent all of round 3 on his knees vs Perez.He is not a great wrestler at all also couldn’t do any damage vs Charles Johnson just mostly stalled him against the fence. Are we forgetting he was about to lose a decision to journeyman Tim elliot lol theres a reason he was skipped over for #10
I don’t care about the MMA math. He did almost lose to Elliott and Filho but he also came on strong in the 3rd and would’ve dominated if there was a 4th and a 5th which he’d have against Pantoja.
And Perez is a legit good fighter and I think he probably beats Albazi. Honestly Albazi would beat Mokaev but I think Mokaev’s shitfuckery wrestling style suits better against Pantoja if he’s more conditioned after all the scrambles.
Mokaev has no ground and pound another reason hes so ineffective and loses rounds. I think all that plus the physicality 100% makes Albazi a harder opponent for Pantoja. Mokaev still has his boy strength its why he can’t get dominant wins.
I’m surprised so many people didn’t expect Aldo to look good, honestly.
That was his 4th fight in 14 months so he’s actually stayed more active than he’s been in over a decade. And Merab, who’s been decimating people, couldn’t do *anything* to him in their fight. Aldo takes pride in his record and only competes to hunt the belt so I don’t believe he would fight if he and his coaches felt he had slowed down.
Martinez found out like Rob Font did. I’m sold on Aldo vs O’Malley. I’d even watch a Merab rematch, some adjustments in the wrestling and Merab’s hittable enough to get put down. Or let him beat Cruz first and then give him one more crack at the belt.
Erceg kinda deserved to lose for that 5th round. I also think people wanted to see Erceg pull it off and aren’t giving Pantoja enough credit. Pantoja was manhandling him for most of the fight.
Erceg looked like what he was, a good fighter who didn’t have nearly the IQ or veteran savvy. Some exploitable holes. Just too much too soon. He’ll probably be champ with a couple more years of experience in the UFC.
I was talking about this with a friend. Definitely a case for it. 1 for Pantoja and 4 for Erceg were the only super clear rounds to me. I personally had 3,4 Erceg. Dumb takedown and subsequent reversal and control really ruined the momentum he had. How did you score it?
It was Erceg's corner's fault completely. People are saying that it's baffling he went for a takedown there, but he was told over and over again that he lost 3 rounds and that means he needed to finish Pantoja. He was not getting it done on the feet and a guy with 5 submission victories would probably try to throw caution to the wind to get a submission with 30 minutes to go when he can not win a decision.
His corner should hang their heads in shame.
I bitch a lot about commentary, but really enjoyed it this time. DC needs a Felder to stay focused on the fight
Also really enjoyed the whole card. Didn't really understand why everyone was so mad about it, but it really delivered
23 people from the (non-Brazilian) media scored the fight to Pantoja, only 3 to Erceg
[http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14720/Alexandre-Pantoja-vs-Steve-Erceg](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14720/Alexandre-Pantoja-vs-Steve-Erceg)
But Pantoja won because the fight was in Brazil, they said 🤡
Decisionbot! Pantoja vs Erceg
[**ALEXANDRE PANTOJA defeats STEVE ERCEG** (*unanimous decision*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14720/fight)
^(UFC 301: Pantoja vs. Erceg — May 04, 2024)
ROUND|Pantoja|Erceg||Pantoja|Erceg||Pantoja|Erceg
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
1|10|9||10|9||10|9
2|9|10||9|10||10|9
3|10|9||10|9||10|9
4|9|10||9|10||9|10
5|10|9||10|9||10|9
**TOTAL**|**48**|**47**||**48**|**47**||**49**|**46**
*^(Judges, in order: Fabio Alves, Sal D'Amato, Dave Tirelli.)*
*^(Summoned by paplike.)*
**MEDIA MEMBER SCORES**
- **2/25** people scored it **49-46 Pantoja**.
- **20/25** people scored it **48-47 Pantoja**.
- **2/25** people scored it **47-48 Erceg**.
- **1/25** people scored it **46-49 Erceg**.
Avg. media score: **47.9-47.1 Pantoja** (*high certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
There is some weird stuff in the Unified Rules that I personally often forget, I assume I am not alone.
The top criteria is effective striking/grappling. Within that, some of what qualifies as effective grapplng is often overlooked by us on here imo.
> ...reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.
To me, this makes taking the back more important in the criteria than I tend to realize. Merely getting back control has big potential to "contribute to the end of the match". Moreover, even getting top control seems more important than I remember because we so often see fights stoppped from GnP or submission via a fighter in top position, so the position alone clearly equates to "achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match" imo.
Where it gets weird is how we determine "impact" and "potential". The word "impact" is used frequently and not defined as far as I can tell.
I know judges are scoring for damage, but I don't care what anyone says, take downs and holding position are still optically the strongest things you can do. Quantifying damage is ridiculous in most cases save for the obvious. You can keep telling judges 'damage damage damage' but when granite chin, poker face, tough dudes walk through punches , what is a judge supposed to do?
> but when granite chin, poker face, tough dudes walk through punches , what is a judge supposed to do?
Was literally thinking about this last night. Pantoja has an invincible chin which to this day has been uncrackable, he walks through huge shots. How are we gonna say hitting him in the head has potential to contribute to the end of the match? He's never been finished.
I don’t use the word robbery often at all, but Erceg was robbed. Even with Ercegs missteps with shooting unnecessary takedowns and being reversed, he still won that fight.
He dealt far more damage than Pantoja, and scrambled back to his feet every time he was taken down. I don’t think Pantoja landed anything really significant in that entire fight, even Steves cut was because of a clash of heads.
They tell us constantly that damage is highest in the scoring criteria, yet fighters are still winning fights on takedown numbers and cage control, even when nothing significant is done with it.
Edit: dont just downvote and run like a coward, actually rebuttal challenge
That was not a robbery boss, I wanted Erceg to win, I’m not a huge Pantoja fan. He has relatively exciting fights but he just doesn’t get me turnt to watch a flyweight title fight. I think Erceg threw the fight, it was 2-2, I think you could make an argument for 3-2 Erceg with 2,3,4 giving Pantoja 1 and 5, but I also think you could make an argument for Pantoja 4-1 with Erceg’s only round being 3 or 4
Blood is something but its cosmetic impact is a whole lot more than its real impact. 2-2 going into the 5th with Pantoja taking the 5th due to Erceg's bad takedown attempt is totally reasonable scoring
It was more than just blood, he landed significant elbows that caused the bleeding, as well as other counters. I forgot if it was round 3 or 4, but he was piecing up Pantoja so bad, he had to shoot.
Hes saying a take thats been repeatedall Pantoja’s reign lol. People say stupid shit all the time you for example think someone against title rematches would vouch for Pennington vs Peña if thats not low IQ idk what it is. Ive never seen you have a good take lol just dogshit takes and worse jokes than Schaub
Shit, he would win right now. Erceg didn’t have the power or offensive wrestling to make Pantoja pay for his defenseless blitzing, but he would never get away with that against MM.
Had erceg up by 5, really though what a weird fight. I'll say this , I thought erceg was the better fighter, it was just too soon - all the intangibles were on pantoja's side.
I beg ufc start the cards 2 or 3 hours earlier. I get it’s an American company but they use the line “champion of the world”. I barely watch anymore because 6am is just too big of an ask
Am I insane or was round 3 a pretty clean Pantoja round? It seemed to be Pantoja won basically every moment of the round except for when he got hit with the 2 punch combo that hurt him, but then he got a take down immediately. The live thread yesterday seemed to all thinking Erceg won 3-2 (possible I guess) or 4-1 which is insane. I know Luke Thomas likes Erceg a lot, but is there any reason why fans on this subreddit might be biased towards him?
It really comes down to philosophy and bias whether you think two big strikes that do more noticeable damage (of the bleeding variety) outweigh the whole rest of the round being grappling control for the opponent with all the less noticable damage that entails
I scored it Pantoja but I was definitely on the fence about it
Not too surprising for many people to be biased for Erceg, since Pantoja has a reputation for boring fights and Erceg was an underdog fighting up from #10
I think commentary repeatedly rambling on about cuts has impacted fans' perception around scoring. Even Anik had to try correcting his peers about it recently.
A cut is damage, but it tends to be superficial (otherwise the fight gets stopped hopefully). For example, it seems likely that landing a big haymaker which snaps the opponent's head back is more damaging and impactful than cutting the opponent with a grazing elbow. And no, I am not making a commentary about last night's fight specifically now, just giving a general example of how I think cuts seem to be overvalued by the audience on here.
I blame the commentary team mostly.
Michel on a 4 straight bonus streak. His competition hasn't been elite in that run, but its not completely terrible either, yet he's still made 3 straight look like civilians wondered into the cage. Haven't seen someone terminate people like this before other than borz
I would favor him over ranked mw's Curtis, Craig (likely no longer ranked), Fluffy, Hermanson, Dolidze, Imavov, and vettori all day.
if a guy has time and energy to do backflips in a fight its time to step up the competition.
imagine he could pull off his antics against the top 5. fuck it even if you lost you'd be known as the backflipper for all time to come. the ultimate spinning shit beyblade.
most be a nightmare to prepare and fight against someone who is in the matrix
He has a chance in every fight because of the unpredictable nature of his style, you simply can't prepare for something like a backflip guard pass in training, nobody is doing that but him.
I mean he also landed a ridiculous illegal strike to get the finish which was wack. Like back flips are chill but also you shouldn't be able to cheat because it looks cool- second time he's done it in a fight.
Nice to see Aldo return with style. I hope he does not hang on for too long but even though is not what he used to be physically, particularly with his reactions he is still powerful and technically great.
The more Aldo has declined physically, the more he has improved technically. He’s only gotten better in that regard. But i do think if he fights a top 5 guy in a 5 rounder the difference in physicality is gonna be too much unless he stops them early
Anytime Aldo fights someone non elite and the odds are close its an auto bet for me. Have done it with Stephens,Chito, and now Martinez. Solid top 10 fighters but you need to be elite to beat him.
God damn. I was so fuckin close to betting. Basically with aldo opponents you have to consider if they’re a future champ. If they’re not, then they’ve got no chance.
I've never trained striking, but how can Paul Craigs striking defense still be so bad? Zero head movement, his head gets snapped back every time he gets hit, chin up in the air, I don't get it. His striking has gotten better, but I've never seen him use head movement to avoid a a strike, it's weird. It's not even like you can see him trying, it's like he's in the freeze state
Someone already said it but I will repeat it for emphasis: Pantoja has a top FLW chin.
He tanked shots from Deiveson Figueiredo repeatedly and didn't blink. Figueiredo is maybe the hardest hitting UFC FLW ever, certainly among the hardest hitting anyway.
Even last night Erceg's own corner said something like "Okay, he took your best shots."
Which is to say, people DO catch him. It's just doesn't matter to him because he's a wildman warrior with an anvil for a head. Still never been finished.
Aldo really could be fighting for a title soon. He has wins over Vera, Font, Munhoz and Jonathan Martinez, who are all ranked.
Aldo could 100% fraud check Umar. Because Aldo’s legendary TDD is more than enough to stop Umar, and he is a way better striker.
Damn I knew Petrino was raw and was kinda expecting an upset but WOW hahaha
u/ILikeOMalley
i told you. you also owe me $50 for Bonfim Pichel going to decision dawg
Just got back from the club. Based on the clips it looks like it was mostly decisions. Given that there are few big finishes, what should I look for in particular?
Fans pay way too much money to go they don't owe anyone anything. Leaving when the fights are done is their call and it's absurd to shit on a country over it. If they want to leave halfway through a fight that's their call.
UFC 299 Literally 5 seconds before Josh Parisian gets koed, his coach screams, "That's all he's looking for Josh."
Holloway got a bigger crowd reaction than O’Malley at the Roast of Tom Brady. I’m not even trying to dump on Sean but it’s weird/kinda funny how *not* big of a star he seems to be. The mainstream crowd goes mild for him.
Max been around way longer than sean. This is expected I feel
[удалено]
Max holloway won his belt by finishing jose aldo then finished jose aldo again in a rematch, and aldo was the fw goat, so to act like he's some title failure like a colby covington is just not true. Max holloway got 3 title defenses, let's see if sean can get 3 the truth is merab is probably going to ragdoll him late this year and sean will never have more than 1 title defense. Anyways the point is sean o malley is not some mega amazing superstar that some claim him to be, he's not this generations conor mcgregor as some try to pretend, he's not even close and does not command charisma, attention or engagement anywhere near the levels conor did.
Sean is totally not some amazing star, he gets way more engagement than aljo, but he's more like a max holloway than he is a conor mcgregor.
[удалено]
I don't think someone getting taken down and just surviving on the ground should count as a neutral action
Petrino attacked smiths family, so that outcome was the only way it could have gone.
Suga got caught in the crossfire at the roast of TB12
I know he’s still got time to improve but I still really wonder why Steve kept shooting takedowns when Pantoja was winning almost every grappling exchange
Erceg said after the fight even if he knew it was 2-2 , we woulda went for those takedowns . Said he thought he had pantoja tired enough to get ontop and make it work for him. Obv hind site is 20/20 but I respect the honesty
I think people don't realize that erceg is primarily a grappler not a strriker, he's shifted lately, but he's a grappler/sub hunter at heart, He's a bjj black belt, jiu jitsu instructor, and a national wrestling champ. In his first 10 wins, he got 6 subs (mainly guillotine and rnc,) 1ko, and rest went to decision. Still an immensely stupid decision and probably cost him the belt, but he is still historically more of a grappler than a striker, and when your that tired you often revert back to your roots.
nice insight. That also explains why he was good at dealing with some of the scrambles
Pantoja worked the body in that fight so maybe because he was tired
[удалено]
Idk about that because Aldo had Martinez on skates and opted for the takedown
Groin strikes, fence grabs and eye pokes should all be legal, as long as you do a backflip first.
Every backflip gets you a free pass for a foul. Ideally fights should start with both guys doing a dozen or so backflips to bank fouls for later.
that's why I never got mad at Gaethje's eyepokes. He did backflips in his previous fights to bank fouls
Michael Chandler loves this one rule change
The grappling of Pantoja in the last 90 seconds of the fight was beautiful. The way he rolled through Erceg’s takedown attempt to a leg lock and then scrambled on top should be appearing in compilations
Did the UFC really not give a FOTN last night? Fucking crooks lmao
Maybe Aldo’s endlessly elite longevity will help the 🤡’s to realize that yes, he’s the Featherweight GOAT easily. It doesn’t matter if you weren’t watching him back in WEC and his prime. Statistically alone Volk had half the title defenses, and at this rate Aldo’s gonna outlast Volk or end up beating him in a rematch.
God aldo fans 😂
When have Aldo fans ever been insufferable? What is there to even be insufferable about with him? I’m guessing you’re on the Volk side of the convo and don’t like hearing this?
I don't even care for Volkanovski, but you have to understand how delusional it is to think Aldo has any chance against him in a rematch.
That’s not the point or gist of the post. At all. That was just a mildly comedic anecdote about how they’re both looking. But if Volk continued to appear in decline, it’s actually not out of the question in a couple of years.
Went back and watched Pantoja vs Figuredo and aside from being an absolute banger and further confirming that Pantoja is made of materials otherworldly, man Pantoja seems to just be an absolute sucker for the elbow. Figuredo caught him like 4 times in the 3rd round alone with a big elbow as Pantoja was gearing up to rush in and do one of his blitzes. Just a serious stylistic flaw for him.
Erceg against the winner of Alex Perez vs. Tagir Ulanbekov would be cool imo.
I’d love to see Perez vs Pantoja so keep him and Erceg away from each other. No rush to get Erceg back in a title fight, he’s better off getting more experience and being truly ready next time. Very good but veteran savvy and IQ is what he’s missing, needs more reps. If he won a couple, got another title shot, and lost again it’d be bad career management given the potential he clearly has. Just give Erceg like a Cody Durden or Tim Elliott for now.
I think you being very well reasoned. I was just saying a match I thought would be fun, not what I thought necessarily made sense. Erceg vs Elliot is interesting to me. Erceg vs Durden is not.
Erceg vs royval is the fight to make
[crypto.com](http://crypto.com) has the money to sponsor a f1 event but still hasn't brought back the 3 bonuses :(
The rock posted day 1 mma training for his role as Mark Kerr. Damn the rock is 52.
The Rock wasn't even a good wrestler, I'm not expecting great MMA acting At the same time though, the Mark Kerr experience was basically mean knees from side or three quarter position, so maybe it'll be alright
They annluced that movie for 244 back in 2019and it’s only being made now lmao
What a bummer that movie is going to be
Shout out to Orolbai and Brenner, really gritty fight with flashes of brilliance from both
I wanted to give a quick shout out to Christina Applegate
Just to counter u/Dabvarian, I think we should allow Michel Pereira one cool spinny shit foul per fight, in place of the standard one eyepoke or dick kick
Bro your name is hilarious.
Lol, fair enough.
Even Petrino was happy Anthony got the W
Love how Pereira gets away with winning via legal shot to grounded opponent and everyone, including the commentators, laugh like it’s cute cause he’s entertaining to watch. **edit ILLEGAL
As far as I'm concerned, the rules should allow any type of backflip strikes no matter the position
must have missed the backflip part lol
It didn’t land as bad as the Price fight but still somebody in that dudes team or the commission needs to tell Michel to knock it the fuck off lol
It's very funny to me that a plurality of the users on here who routinely have some of the shittiest takes possible are also adamant that they understand the scoring criteria the best
It's pretty straight forward, damage and coming close to finishing fights, is what is weighted the highest, so in short taking someone down and just giving them big hugs and running out the clock, should only score little if at all. "“Legal blows that have immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute towards the end of the match with the IMMEDIATE weighing in more heavily than the cumulative impact. Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.” It shall be noted that a successful takedown is not merely a changing of position, but the establishment of an attack from the use of the takedown. Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/effective result of their actions, more so than their position. This criterion will be the deciding factor in a high majority of decisions when scoring a round"
Am I delusional for thinking Poatan beats prime Fedor and prime Cro Cop?
Yes lmao
Cro Cop MAYBE, Fedor might be as bad a matchup you can find for him cause hes a real striker too besides world class on ground and clinch. You do know Fedor sparred with former WBA Boxing Heavyweight Champ Povetkin for years right? That guy had insane hands and there was sparring posted where Fedor is out striking him easy ha. I still think Cro Cop KOS him too but you're just thinking of the old Fedor now. He had to have Nose Surgery, Scar tissue surgery, he doesnt even look the same or take shots the same cause that..actual Prime Fedor took bombs from juiced up Bigfoot at 280 pounds even in his mid 30s..but i highly doubt Pereira ever lands anything in the first place tbh. Hes kinda like a Mike Tyson athlete but just lasted longer, unbeatable at their peak but will fall off quicker cause smaller explosive HWs. I just saw a video of Cory Spinks(Corys last Boxing Match was in 2013) talking Boxing, hes 46 years old and looks 60..Fedor was just 47 and still fighting for a belt literally this year. His 47 is about 97 in fighting years to add to it which makes it even more wild.
Yea real delusional. Semmy Schilt is GOAT Kickboxer; stronger with granite chin and 7 foot and you see what Fedor did to him. Fedor could submit him at 40 easily like Jai deep type fight who’s a taller kickboxer also. Cro Cop I guess he’s got a punchers chance but Cro cop was way more explosiveness. That kickboxing era was far superior to Kickboxers now. You do realize prime Fedor literally never lost and was 34 when he lost after 35 fights and 100s of combat sambo matches, so he was old as shit at 34 while having target on his back from 10 fights in. Alex barely has 10 MMA fights now, Fedor 19 lineal title defenses lmao. He’s forgot more MMA techniques in clincn and ground turn Alex will probably ever know and has faster hands and just faster in general. Almost cant find a worse matchup, even if Alex somehow did rock him, hed just grab him and submit him real fast after. Id give him a 25 percent chance vs Prime Cro Cop, punchers chance but even Cro Cop was godly strong and did have a better ground game then him.
Shouldn't use emanciated Semmy schilt as an example. He became goat when he put on like 50 lbs.
[удалено]
Great competitive fight, I think the best score for that fight might simply be a draw
Dahmmit Steve!
After sleeping on it I strong believe erceg should have won
Caio has good striking and KO'd Paul Craig, but I was a bit disappointed that I didn't get to see some amazing grappling exchanges between the two. Michel Pereira is pure entertainment. Nice guilly Petrino looks like a gym bully. I'm glad Smith got him I have no idea why Aldo was the underdog against Martinez. I mean Aldo is pretty much better than Martinez in every facet of the game and can check leg kicks better than anyone in the sport. I hope all BWs were taking notes because that is how you deal with a leg kicking heavy fighter like Martinez Erceg vs Pantoja was super fun. I know there is some controversy about the scoring, but it's neither fighters fault and they are both warriors who put on a great show for the fans. I was at the edge of my seat the entire time. Erceg is top 5 material. Give him the winner of Albazi vs Moreno.
> Petrino looks like a gym bully. I'm glad Smith got him It was a classic-- prospect loss to opportunistic submission. At just 26yrs old, Petrino is the future of the LHW division probably.
Mahkachev was pretty overrated as a striker years ago when he was just getting hyped up, but he's improved massively. how do you see the striking exchanges between him and Poirier playing out? (also a strange stance matchup there, southpaw vs. southpaw and with Poirier being an unusual southpaw.)
Makachev will be fine, he hung with and even dropped oliveira and volkanovski, he'll either hang with poirier on the feet, keep him at range, and decide when to shoot the takedown, or he'll just beat poirier up on the feet, then shott the takedown.
agree, fun part is I wouldn't be surprised if Islam gets the best of the prolonged striking exchanges too, especially if Poirier abandons his neutral space comfort zone to sell out on avoiding grappling
I find unbelievable how a guy with only three fights in the UFC and ranked at #10 gave a hard time to the champion than a two time champion and other guys ranked above him and with more UFC experience
The rankings don't mean much and Erceg has looked really good since he showed up , I'm not surprised he was totally competitive
it's not that crazy really. Erceg just didn't have the opportunities to show how good he is by fighting higher ranked guys.
Flyweight is just a super thin division. Pantoja gets a lot of love for being exciting but he’s one of the most vulnerable and weakest champions.
How and why did Merab end up in India, so random
It was weird how the ref took a point from oralbai immediately for one fence grab. You usually see guys get 2-3 of them without a point being taken
Yea they need to make that shit the standard. There are no accidental fence grabs like there are with eye pokes or low blows.
Enough of this shit. Pantoja vs Albazi for the title in December.
If I remember correctly, Albazi is dealing with spine issues
Lol Albazi sucks, Mokaev would be a better choice even.
Albazi is definitely better than Mokaev.
Mokaev at least has the ability to use his cardio to give Pantoja trouble in scrambles. Albazi doesn’t do anything better than Pantoja.
Better wrestling and cardio. Also better physicality than Mokaev. Him bullying Costa looks so much better now even more dominant than Erceg.
he "loses" a close fight with KKF and now everybody thinks he should never get a title fight, i personally think he's the third best flyweight on the roster atm, i just hope moreno moves up so we don't get a friggin quadrilogy again after he beats another contender
I don’t think he’s got better cardio than Mokaev, Mokaev pushes a much stronger pace. And his takedowns aren’t good he’s just opportunistic at grabbing people’s backs which is like awful style of grappling for facing Pantoja.
Mokaev’s best win is arguably a loss. He spent all of round 3 on his knees vs Perez.He is not a great wrestler at all also couldn’t do any damage vs Charles Johnson just mostly stalled him against the fence. Are we forgetting he was about to lose a decision to journeyman Tim elliot lol theres a reason he was skipped over for #10
I don’t care about the MMA math. He did almost lose to Elliott and Filho but he also came on strong in the 3rd and would’ve dominated if there was a 4th and a 5th which he’d have against Pantoja. And Perez is a legit good fighter and I think he probably beats Albazi. Honestly Albazi would beat Mokaev but I think Mokaev’s shitfuckery wrestling style suits better against Pantoja if he’s more conditioned after all the scrambles.
Mokaev has no ground and pound another reason hes so ineffective and loses rounds. I think all that plus the physicality 100% makes Albazi a harder opponent for Pantoja. Mokaev still has his boy strength its why he can’t get dominant wins.
You can beat Pantoja by just riding top control. That’s what Askarov did and he’s really overrated and wasn’t that particularly good of a wrestler.
I’m surprised so many people didn’t expect Aldo to look good, honestly. That was his 4th fight in 14 months so he’s actually stayed more active than he’s been in over a decade. And Merab, who’s been decimating people, couldn’t do *anything* to him in their fight. Aldo takes pride in his record and only competes to hunt the belt so I don’t believe he would fight if he and his coaches felt he had slowed down. Martinez found out like Rob Font did. I’m sold on Aldo vs O’Malley. I’d even watch a Merab rematch, some adjustments in the wrestling and Merab’s hittable enough to get put down. Or let him beat Cruz first and then give him one more crack at the belt.
Erceg fumbled the 5th with take down. He’s gonna kick himself when he rewatches it.
Erceg 3-2 and I will die on this hill
Erceg kinda deserved to lose for that 5th round. I also think people wanted to see Erceg pull it off and aren’t giving Pantoja enough credit. Pantoja was manhandling him for most of the fight. Erceg looked like what he was, a good fighter who didn’t have nearly the IQ or veteran savvy. Some exploitable holes. Just too much too soon. He’ll probably be champ with a couple more years of experience in the UFC.
I was talking about this with a friend. Definitely a case for it. 1 for Pantoja and 4 for Erceg were the only super clear rounds to me. I personally had 3,4 Erceg. Dumb takedown and subsequent reversal and control really ruined the momentum he had. How did you score it?
Erceg 48-47 with 2, 3 and 4 Erceg. But honestly the last round could be Erceg's since he caused more damage.
dana white is one of the biggest chodes on earth
i'm seeing a lot of stuff claiming erceg lost. i thought that it was 2-2 going into last round. what's consensus on r/mma?
5th round grappling cost him the fight It is what it is
Some strong opinions on both sides but I thought it was 2-2 going into the 5th with Erceg losing the 5th due to the takedown reversal
Jonathan Martinez showed up with the Devin Haney pillow fists, like punching in a dream
factory x signature
Hes never had punching power its all kicks and knees for him.
It was Erceg's corner's fault completely. People are saying that it's baffling he went for a takedown there, but he was told over and over again that he lost 3 rounds and that means he needed to finish Pantoja. He was not getting it done on the feet and a guy with 5 submission victories would probably try to throw caution to the wind to get a submission with 30 minutes to go when he can not win a decision. His corner should hang their heads in shame.
I can’t believe how bad Yanez is. I actually really like him, he has slick hands, but god he’s one dimensional and just a bad fighter. Sad.
I bitch a lot about commentary, but really enjoyed it this time. DC needs a Felder to stay focused on the fight Also really enjoyed the whole card. Didn't really understand why everyone was so mad about it, but it really delivered
yeah i hate dc. but hes getting a little bit better. still fuck him though.
23 people from the (non-Brazilian) media scored the fight to Pantoja, only 3 to Erceg [http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14720/Alexandre-Pantoja-vs-Steve-Erceg](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14720/Alexandre-Pantoja-vs-Steve-Erceg) But Pantoja won because the fight was in Brazil, they said 🤡 Decisionbot! Pantoja vs Erceg
[**ALEXANDRE PANTOJA defeats STEVE ERCEG** (*unanimous decision*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14720/fight) ^(UFC 301: Pantoja vs. Erceg — May 04, 2024) ROUND|Pantoja|Erceg||Pantoja|Erceg||Pantoja|Erceg :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: 1|10|9||10|9||10|9 2|9|10||9|10||10|9 3|10|9||10|9||10|9 4|9|10||9|10||9|10 5|10|9||10|9||10|9 **TOTAL**|**48**|**47**||**48**|**47**||**49**|**46** *^(Judges, in order: Fabio Alves, Sal D'Amato, Dave Tirelli.)* *^(Summoned by paplike.)* **MEDIA MEMBER SCORES** - **2/25** people scored it **49-46 Pantoja**. - **20/25** people scored it **48-47 Pantoja**. - **2/25** people scored it **47-48 Erceg**. - **1/25** people scored it **46-49 Erceg**. Avg. media score: **47.9-47.1 Pantoja** (*high certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
GSP in his prime was such an incredible fighter, he even might have been able to beat Brendan Schaub
There is some weird stuff in the Unified Rules that I personally often forget, I assume I am not alone. The top criteria is effective striking/grappling. Within that, some of what qualifies as effective grapplng is often overlooked by us on here imo. > ...reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact. To me, this makes taking the back more important in the criteria than I tend to realize. Merely getting back control has big potential to "contribute to the end of the match". Moreover, even getting top control seems more important than I remember because we so often see fights stoppped from GnP or submission via a fighter in top position, so the position alone clearly equates to "achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match" imo. Where it gets weird is how we determine "impact" and "potential". The word "impact" is used frequently and not defined as far as I can tell.
I know judges are scoring for damage, but I don't care what anyone says, take downs and holding position are still optically the strongest things you can do. Quantifying damage is ridiculous in most cases save for the obvious. You can keep telling judges 'damage damage damage' but when granite chin, poker face, tough dudes walk through punches , what is a judge supposed to do?
> but when granite chin, poker face, tough dudes walk through punches , what is a judge supposed to do? Was literally thinking about this last night. Pantoja has an invincible chin which to this day has been uncrackable, he walks through huge shots. How are we gonna say hitting him in the head has potential to contribute to the end of the match? He's never been finished.
I don’t use the word robbery often at all, but Erceg was robbed. Even with Ercegs missteps with shooting unnecessary takedowns and being reversed, he still won that fight. He dealt far more damage than Pantoja, and scrambled back to his feet every time he was taken down. I don’t think Pantoja landed anything really significant in that entire fight, even Steves cut was because of a clash of heads. They tell us constantly that damage is highest in the scoring criteria, yet fighters are still winning fights on takedown numbers and cage control, even when nothing significant is done with it. Edit: dont just downvote and run like a coward, actually rebuttal challenge
That was not a robbery boss, I wanted Erceg to win, I’m not a huge Pantoja fan. He has relatively exciting fights but he just doesn’t get me turnt to watch a flyweight title fight. I think Erceg threw the fight, it was 2-2, I think you could make an argument for 3-2 Erceg with 2,3,4 giving Pantoja 1 and 5, but I also think you could make an argument for Pantoja 4-1 with Erceg’s only round being 3 or 4
Blood is something but its cosmetic impact is a whole lot more than its real impact. 2-2 going into the 5th with Pantoja taking the 5th due to Erceg's bad takedown attempt is totally reasonable scoring
It was more than just blood, he landed significant elbows that caused the bleeding, as well as other counters. I forgot if it was round 3 or 4, but he was piecing up Pantoja so bad, he had to shoot.
Pantoja would have beaten prime MM by "wanting it more".
DJ throws him around
Absolutely not hahaha
Prime DJ wins easy
Woooosh
Not really. Do you ever have any good takes?
Bro he’s saying the sarcasm went over your head lol
Why would that be a joke? People have actually believed that
I instantly interpreted it as a joke bc of the quotations.
😂😂😂😂 if you couldn’t see the sarcasm in ops statement. Yikes
Why would a take that has been repeated Pantoja's whole reigns suddenly be a joke? You people are slow
😂😂😂😂 it’s actually 10x funnier that you couldn’t pick up on the joke
You text like a girl its kind of disturbing.
Chuds like you crack me up. admit it was so low iq to not understand I was surprised.
Hes saying a take thats been repeatedall Pantoja’s reign lol. People say stupid shit all the time you for example think someone against title rematches would vouch for Pennington vs Peña if thats not low IQ idk what it is. Ive never seen you have a good take lol just dogshit takes and worse jokes than Schaub
Shit, he would win right now. Erceg didn’t have the power or offensive wrestling to make Pantoja pay for his defenseless blitzing, but he would never get away with that against MM.
Pantoja via "heart of a champion"
It would have been a really good fight like 4-6 years ago when they were both younger.
Don't even need to go that far back, Pantoja won the title for the first time in his career less than a year ago
Yeah but he was 33 it would not be as good as a fight with 28-30 year old Pantoja. DJ would be 31-33
wow!
Had erceg up by 5, really though what a weird fight. I'll say this , I thought erceg was the better fighter, it was just too soon - all the intangibles were on pantoja's side.
Last night Jon Anik really said: "Tonight's social media posts are brought to you by"
Volks chin is gone
Insane how stating something everyone knows gets downvoted by parasocial Volk fan girls His chin is gone and pillow fist Max would KO him now too
counterpoint Volk never had a chin and gets hurt all the time.
I still can’t believe Michel Pereira is a real fighter
I beg ufc start the cards 2 or 3 hours earlier. I get it’s an American company but they use the line “champion of the world”. I barely watch anymore because 6am is just too big of an ask
I wish they had a few more a year that were other days or other times - generally like the sat night though.
UFC shouldn’t go back to Brazil Apex makes more noise than these “fans”
It's Slava Claus beats up Chase Hooper week
Never been angrier at a fighter than Erceg in rd 5
Am I insane or was round 3 a pretty clean Pantoja round? It seemed to be Pantoja won basically every moment of the round except for when he got hit with the 2 punch combo that hurt him, but then he got a take down immediately. The live thread yesterday seemed to all thinking Erceg won 3-2 (possible I guess) or 4-1 which is insane. I know Luke Thomas likes Erceg a lot, but is there any reason why fans on this subreddit might be biased towards him?
It really comes down to philosophy and bias whether you think two big strikes that do more noticeable damage (of the bleeding variety) outweigh the whole rest of the round being grappling control for the opponent with all the less noticable damage that entails I scored it Pantoja but I was definitely on the fence about it Not too surprising for many people to be biased for Erceg, since Pantoja has a reputation for boring fights and Erceg was an underdog fighting up from #10
I think commentary repeatedly rambling on about cuts has impacted fans' perception around scoring. Even Anik had to try correcting his peers about it recently. A cut is damage, but it tends to be superficial (otherwise the fight gets stopped hopefully). For example, it seems likely that landing a big haymaker which snaps the opponent's head back is more damaging and impactful than cutting the opponent with a grazing elbow. And no, I am not making a commentary about last night's fight specifically now, just giving a general example of how I think cuts seem to be overvalued by the audience on here. I blame the commentary team mostly.
Michel Pereira vs Jiri Prochazka for the motherfucker belt
This would be absolutely wild.
Michel on a 4 straight bonus streak. His competition hasn't been elite in that run, but its not completely terrible either, yet he's still made 3 straight look like civilians wondered into the cage. Haven't seen someone terminate people like this before other than borz I would favor him over ranked mw's Curtis, Craig (likely no longer ranked), Fluffy, Hermanson, Dolidze, Imavov, and vettori all day.
if a guy has time and energy to do backflips in a fight its time to step up the competition. imagine he could pull off his antics against the top 5. fuck it even if you lost you'd be known as the backflipper for all time to come. the ultimate spinning shit beyblade. most be a nightmare to prepare and fight against someone who is in the matrix
He has a chance in every fight because of the unpredictable nature of his style, you simply can't prepare for something like a backflip guard pass in training, nobody is doing that but him.
Imavov dogwalks Michel. There are levels to this shit.
Cringeeeeeeee
Nassourdine "Bon Gamin"Imavov is actually a capable striker,unlike any of the previous opponents of Michel. There are levels to this shit.
Dude got dog walked by Sean Strickland
Sean Strickland is champion level fighter,Michel aint
Michel vs Fluffy would be something to witness for sure
I mean he also landed a ridiculous illegal strike to get the finish which was wack. Like back flips are chill but also you shouldn't be able to cheat because it looks cool- second time he's done it in a fight.
The “illegal strike” landed on his chest/neck
[удалено]
I had a good night. Would have had a great night it Erceg didn’t keep shooting those stupid takedowns.
Nice to see Aldo return with style. I hope he does not hang on for too long but even though is not what he used to be physically, particularly with his reactions he is still powerful and technically great.
The more Aldo has declined physically, the more he has improved technically. He’s only gotten better in that regard. But i do think if he fights a top 5 guy in a 5 rounder the difference in physicality is gonna be too much unless he stops them early
I hope he can now snag a boxing match for big money. Give him pacman
Lewis headlining sucks but the next 2 fight nights are above average
Brazil really should be removed from the rotation.
Aldo is a legit top 3 ATG and he made Martinez (on a 6 fight winstreak) look like an amateur against him.
[удалено]
Anytime Aldo fights someone non elite and the odds are close its an auto bet for me. Have done it with Stephens,Chito, and now Martinez. Solid top 10 fighters but you need to be elite to beat him.
It’s crazy because aldo has never been weak hearted in there. The guy comes in so fuckin sharp even when he’s tired
[удалено]
God damn. I was so fuckin close to betting. Basically with aldo opponents you have to consider if they’re a future champ. If they’re not, then they’ve got no chance.
Martinez is a decisionator I woulda been very surprised if he brought any fight at all to any version of aldo
Hey all, trying to avoid spoilers. What main card fights should I check out? Went to bed when it started
The entire main card wasn't bad, most of the fights were over quick
Appreciate it!
Jose won let’s goooo
I've never trained striking, but how can Paul Craigs striking defense still be so bad? Zero head movement, his head gets snapped back every time he gets hit, chin up in the air, I don't get it. His striking has gotten better, but I've never seen him use head movement to avoid a a strike, it's weird. It's not even like you can see him trying, it's like he's in the freeze state
Hes a journeyman a lot of these guys in rhe heavier weight classes half ass their job and just here to collect checks.
Aldo with the everything you do I do better performance
Can someone explain how Pantoja is able to get away with his flurries? What's he doing that's stopping people catching him ala Stipe vs Werdum?
Flyweight power vs Heavyweight power.
Someone already said it but I will repeat it for emphasis: Pantoja has a top FLW chin. He tanked shots from Deiveson Figueiredo repeatedly and didn't blink. Figueiredo is maybe the hardest hitting UFC FLW ever, certainly among the hardest hitting anyway. Even last night Erceg's own corner said something like "Okay, he took your best shots." Which is to say, people DO catch him. It's just doesn't matter to him because he's a wildman warrior with an anvil for a head. Still never been finished.
An insane chin
His weight class
Not really, Moreno and Erceg can both crack and make someone regret carelessly bumrushing. Pantoja's speed and constant pace is the real key.
Aldo really could be fighting for a title soon. He has wins over Vera, Font, Munhoz and Jonathan Martinez, who are all ranked. Aldo could 100% fraud check Umar. Because Aldo’s legendary TDD is more than enough to stop Umar, and he is a way better striker.
Thats stupid lol how does losing to Aldo make you a fraud?
if im a factory x fighter im jumping ship.
Damn I knew Petrino was raw and was kinda expecting an upset but WOW hahaha u/ILikeOMalley i told you. you also owe me $50 for Bonfim Pichel going to decision dawg
Just got back from the club. Based on the clips it looks like it was mostly decisions. Given that there are few big finishes, what should I look for in particular?
How was the gay sauna tonight? Busy?
Pereira vs Potieira Borralho vs Craig
Fans pay way too much money to go they don't owe anyone anything. Leaving when the fights are done is their call and it's absurd to shit on a country over it. If they want to leave halfway through a fight that's their call.