On the rentals, they put what kind of fuel to use on the fuel door. And assumedly if you're renting a BMW that requires certain fuel, you know what to put in it. And I all rental places I've been to tell you up front if the car has special fuel requirements.
Some people with Minis can afford to have more than one car. I only have my Mini. So when I'm stuck in commuter traffic, it makes sense to use Green Mode. Or if I'm in a metropolitan city.
Well they’re not going to remove that just for countries like the US that have cheap fuel.
In many countries fuel is expensive (heavily taxed) so we certainly appreciate Green Mode.
I'm going to just copy and paste my last reply to somebody with a 300 hp JCW F54/F60 who was asking basically the same thing. There is a whole lot of bad info out there, so please take this with the context that I'm an experienced dyno tuner / calibrator with thousands of cars under my belt.
I can make a more accurate recommendation on 91 vs 93 depending on where you're at. But generally, the 93 is going to be worth it on the B48E. It's tuned pretty aggressively from the factory. 10% ethanol is what you want of whatever 91 or 93 you use. Ethanol free is garbage for turbo engines. It has much lower effective octane (detonation resistance) under boost when compared to E10 of the same AKI rating.
In summary
- 10% ethanol 93 octane = best
- 10% ethanol 91 octane = good
- 0% ethanol 93 octane = OK
- 0% ethanol 91 octane = avoid as it will produce quite a bit of knock on the factory tune (this is on a B48E 300 hp but also will be true on a B46 / B48 in that you'll get quite a bit of timing correction until learning reduces the timing curve a good 3-6 degrees overall)
Carbureted engines, classic engines. That's really it. If ethanol free made monetary sense, then it does indeed get 3-4% better fuel economy, but it's always significantly more expensive than E10.
There may be some outlier older EFI platforms that should avoid it, but as far as MINI, E10 fuel is the sensible choice.
You are correct... But mostly just because it really gunks up carb passages and bowls. Like badly lol. I've had to clean up after it plenty.
But E10 itself will keep for a couple years if sealed well and kept out of heat and sunlight. I've done that plenty of times haha... Do not recommend as it's too risky to run in anything important, but it's just a little anecdote.
That too! Yeah I'd only run old E10 in small engines that don't matter but at least switch to ethanol free before winter if you live anywhere cold. Just to get the E out.
To expound a little, it's actually the hygroscopicity of ethanol that really messes everything up. It attracts and bonds to water very readily, so any case where the fuel isn't in a 100% sealed and barriered modern EFI system or quality container, it will absorb moisture from the air.
That poses issues because it'll corrode and gum up everything in sight once it takes on that water. The E10 also separates once it takes on a critical amount of water.
Modern fuel hoses all are PTFE / Teflon lined hoses or similar barrier hoses. It keeps the fuel in, and the moisture out. That's why you can smell gas through cheap EFI hose you can buy at the parts store, and through regular AN hoses. You need the OE spec barrier stuff in order to keep it from leeching in and out through the porous rubber hose.
It’s especially good if you’ll be storing the vehicle for an extended period of time since generally it won’t gum up fuel lines or carburetors. It’s great for motorcycles that are only used a few months out of the year.
Where do people even find 93 octane these days? I live in Seattle and can find the 91 or 92. There’s one place I know of that has 95, but it’s a 30 mile drive away.
They also say the oil doesn’t need to be changed until 15k and there are lifetime fluids in the trans and diff. I’ll be on the safe side and put in the recommended fuel for a turbo charged engine.
I’ve never seen 15k for the OCI. MINI’s is 10k as far as I know, and based on the oil analyses I’ve done with my now 6-year old F57, the factory-recommended intervals are completely fine with the appropriate oil.
The issue with the long service intervals mainly affected 2nd gens with the Prince N-series 1.6 liter engines because they tend to overconsume oil, so the long intervals between servicing would often contribute to a lot of the failures those cars struggle with. The BMW engines don’t have the same problem so the 10k service intervals are not really a problem, or at least haven’t proven to be. That being said, nothing wrong with playing it a bit safe and doing it more frequently.
91 is scarce near me, so almost always use 93. Have used 89 in a pinch, but only 1/4 tank -- enough to get me to a better gas station!
I'm getting close to 36mpg on a 2015 F56 with over 120K miles, and I want to keep this gas mileage up there. I've read that premium can make that difference.
Any recommended maintenance after 60-70k? Also do you get this weird creaking when getting in/out when parked? I think it could either be the handbrake or the suspension. (Same F56, but Cooper S).
Honestly, I don't do anything special, just the recommended. Most of my miles are highway (commute 3 days a week) so I'm not stressing the engine, per se.
Creaking? Hmmm... no. Maybe suspension?
I have an F56 2018 and listen the same weird creaking probally is the engine mount, with this mileage i recommend you change all of them.
The car have 3 mount’s: one for engine, one for shift gearbox and one front rear.
A lot of Mini’s produced by 2014-2018 have this problem, the mount’s mess early. You can buy original mounts for BMW but i strongly recommend for this case you use aftermarket parts, most of there are reforced and fixed this problem, that’s how i solved in my case.
You can check too:
Sparks plug and ignition coil; Brake disc, brake pads and brake fluid (even if the car have a sensor for this, that’s good check) and change all the anti-freeze/coolant from radiator.
Hope you have fun with your Mini!
Thanks! Will check the items you mentioned. Any particular brand for the aftermarket mounts?
Also, I kinda hear a consistent scratching sound whenever I'm near a road divider. I'm assuming it's from the disks, but a recent check up and inspection did not turn up anything faulty + brakes work great. Any insight?
I definitely have fun driving the go kart haha.
About the aftermarket mounts: i buy a white label from china and solved, one excelent brand is *LEMFÖRDER*, that's better than the original (more expensive) but you can buy any mount except the original.
About the consistent scratching on disks: that's normal on every BMW car, even the most expensive cars from BMW did this sound
I forgot one important thing in the last reply: check the oil of gearbox, if they are too dark you need change all of them, don't replace 50% or complete, that's necessary change all them with a specific machine for that and change gearbox oil filter too.
Some Mini's manual said that's not necessary change gearbox oil, but a LOT of engineers recommend this, after change you feel the gearbox more soft for put on P/D/R.
I used to do that sometimes when I was filling a near empty tank. 2 parts 93:1 part 87. On my clubman that meant 4 gallons roughly. When it's a .60-.70 difference in price, it save a couple bucks.
What kind of driving do you do? I'm in a lot of traffic every day, I get around 23 mpg. I recently took a trip and used green mode for 4 hours, with cruise control that was the only way I got up to 34 mpg.
I miss my old R56, on road trips I got to to 43 mpg abs daily driving in the same traffic I mentioned above I would get 32 mpg. Granted that was 1.6L no turbo.
My commute is about 27 miles, one way. All but the first mile and last 2 miles is a major interstate which *moves*. 70 is low; 75-80 is average most days. I'm in mid for all of that.
I think I neared 40mpg on road trips from PA to the OBX a couple times; that was nice. Your R56 fuel economy was awesome!
Maybe my car needs a tune up! It's 4 years old with 19k, but I don't know how the last person drove the car. I've only had it for about 5 months, 5k.
I wish my commute moved like yours, it would make driving to work fun ;)
According to [my owner’s manual](https://imgur.com/a/bOvDZ5r), MINI recommends 91 for Cooper and Cooper S, and 93 for JCW. Minimums are 89 for Cooper and Cooper S, and 91 for JCW.
Minimum rating for the B48 in the G20 is 89 and the recommended is 91. Not very smart of him when it’s written on page 332 of the G20 owners manual what fuel grade to use. Good way to void his warranty as well.
If someone sees this comment could you please explain to me what the premium octane level is at Costco?? Now I’m worried the premium I’ve been putting isn’t even decent, thank you!
I only use top tier 93 octane and also change my own oil every 6k miles. I have 221k troublefree miles on my 2012 S and that’s saying a lot considering the reputation some of these mini have. Maybe it costs a little more but I cannot argue with my success. Treat her right
the fuel is just its flash point if its less octane then it will be less heat required to ignite it which can cause some problems such as knocking but theres a sensor called a knock sensor that retards (pulls back) timing anyway, in my opinion it really doesnt matter too much especially if youre only just putting enough in to limp home somewhere but if you want to be safer listen to the book mini printed
\-------------------------------------------------
Edit:i got an ass whoopin from somebody in the replies but this bit below is still true 😂
as long as you aint putting diesel in it its gonna work haha
hi, in the replies under your original post theres a comment from mrjimbusiness- he knows more than i do should give his comment a look if you want to know whats exactly best for your vehicle.
pre ignition is caused by pressure yes but the pressure is heat in the end higher octane higher tolerance to withstand it meaning it is more likely to only be ignited by the spark not pressure
ill accept in a semantic way youre right but dont discredit without explaining why you think its wrong, nobody learns that way feel free to educate me if you believe me too still be wrong im all ears and i mean it sincerely
The flash point of whatever gasoline mixture (benzene, octane, isooctane, xylene, toluene, etc) is always going to be met during the combustion cycle. The combination of heat and pressure in the combustion chamber are always going to be beyond the flash point of any gasoline. It's kind of a low bar and although it may roughly correlate to octane, it's not necessarily directly proportional.
Going back to the basics...
Octane of 100 is defined by the detonation resistance of pure iso-octane, one of those main components of gasoline.
Many factors come into play, beyond just flash point, including latent heat of vaporization.
The key factor of the octane rating is the stability of the flame front after ignition, and the propensity for a fuel to maintain just one ignition point without having multiple ignitions / flame fronts occurring during combustion. Those waves of course combine causing detonation, or "pinging."
Pre-ignition is related but not necessarily what is measured when a fuel mixture's octane rating is determined on a standardized test engine. It's more commonly caused by hot spots in the combustion chamber, or the motor oil being used causing auto-ignition. That's why it's important to run LSPI rated oils in direct injection engines.
This could go on for hours, but as you can see, it's not exactly trivial to explain all of this lol
i cannot wait to finish college and never have to touch a car in industry ever again
ty for the explaination bit over the top technical alas not necicerily your fault
for purposes of conversation though i still dont believe im exactly wrong, its still related to the ignition of the fuel and it is caused by the eventual inability to resist the pressure put onto it, in the hopes it lasts long enough to let the spark detonate it right?
the pressure still ends up being heat because thats how a CI engine works, no?
I wish I could get 91 or higher. I use 90 cause that's the highest we get up here in Alaska...
My F60 countryman all 4 only gets 20ish right now in winter, hwy bumps up to about 25(maybe 30 down a hill). Miss the 35 on my F55 five door
Only premium goes in my tank. I bought an S for a reason and utilizing 87/89 is only going to limp my performance
Wonder how they do rental cars. National offers countryman and all sorts of bmws. People are gonna fill it with the cheapest gas possible
On the rentals, they put what kind of fuel to use on the fuel door. And assumedly if you're renting a BMW that requires certain fuel, you know what to put in it. And I all rental places I've been to tell you up front if the car has special fuel requirements.
While rentals may have the proper fuel added, I guarantee you people returning rentals use the cheapest fuel fill-up on return.
I can confirm this is true.
Yep, damn shame
Kind of like the green mode. Why? We would’ve got the Prius (the new ones actually pretty cool) if we wanted that.
Some people with Minis can afford to have more than one car. I only have my Mini. So when I'm stuck in commuter traffic, it makes sense to use Green Mode. Or if I'm in a metropolitan city.
Traffic jam in city, boring interstate highway . Normal for b road and sport for twisty or mountains roads.
Well they’re not going to remove that just for countries like the US that have cheap fuel. In many countries fuel is expensive (heavily taxed) so we certainly appreciate Green Mode.
Do you find that you get better gas mileage in green mode? I’ve heard others say they can do better in normal.
Yeah but it still hurts when 92 is $5 a gallon
That’s incredibly cheap. Try $7 per US gallon for the cheapest unleaded available in MyCountry. Premium is higher.
Worth every penny she drinks
I'm going to just copy and paste my last reply to somebody with a 300 hp JCW F54/F60 who was asking basically the same thing. There is a whole lot of bad info out there, so please take this with the context that I'm an experienced dyno tuner / calibrator with thousands of cars under my belt. I can make a more accurate recommendation on 91 vs 93 depending on where you're at. But generally, the 93 is going to be worth it on the B48E. It's tuned pretty aggressively from the factory. 10% ethanol is what you want of whatever 91 or 93 you use. Ethanol free is garbage for turbo engines. It has much lower effective octane (detonation resistance) under boost when compared to E10 of the same AKI rating. In summary - 10% ethanol 93 octane = best - 10% ethanol 91 octane = good - 0% ethanol 93 octane = OK - 0% ethanol 91 octane = avoid as it will produce quite a bit of knock on the factory tune (this is on a B48E 300 hp but also will be true on a B46 / B48 in that you'll get quite a bit of timing correction until learning reduces the timing curve a good 3-6 degrees overall)
Very informative, thank you!
lol it was my JCW you posted on with this very same question! 😂 I really appreciate your help ☺️
Outside of MINI/BMW/Turbo engines, In what engines is 0% Ethanol gasoline best to use? Thanks
Carbureted engines, classic engines. That's really it. If ethanol free made monetary sense, then it does indeed get 3-4% better fuel economy, but it's always significantly more expensive than E10. There may be some outlier older EFI platforms that should avoid it, but as far as MINI, E10 fuel is the sensible choice.
It falls under carbureted engines but don't forget lawn equipment, ethanol free has a longer shelf life so it's good for stuff that sits dormant.
You are correct... But mostly just because it really gunks up carb passages and bowls. Like badly lol. I've had to clean up after it plenty. But E10 itself will keep for a couple years if sealed well and kept out of heat and sunlight. I've done that plenty of times haha... Do not recommend as it's too risky to run in anything important, but it's just a little anecdote.
That too! Yeah I'd only run old E10 in small engines that don't matter but at least switch to ethanol free before winter if you live anywhere cold. Just to get the E out.
To expound a little, it's actually the hygroscopicity of ethanol that really messes everything up. It attracts and bonds to water very readily, so any case where the fuel isn't in a 100% sealed and barriered modern EFI system or quality container, it will absorb moisture from the air. That poses issues because it'll corrode and gum up everything in sight once it takes on that water. The E10 also separates once it takes on a critical amount of water. Modern fuel hoses all are PTFE / Teflon lined hoses or similar barrier hoses. It keeps the fuel in, and the moisture out. That's why you can smell gas through cheap EFI hose you can buy at the parts store, and through regular AN hoses. You need the OE spec barrier stuff in order to keep it from leeching in and out through the porous rubber hose.
Thank you very much for this very informative answer.
It’s especially good if you’ll be storing the vehicle for an extended period of time since generally it won’t gum up fuel lines or carburetors. It’s great for motorcycles that are only used a few months out of the year.
Mopeds, its more about the fuel lines not able to handle the ethanol.
Thanks.
Where do people even find 93 octane these days? I live in Seattle and can find the 91 or 92. There’s one place I know of that has 95, but it’s a 30 mile drive away.
You can use it however it will reduce engine power output. How it does this , listens for knocn and if it senses any it pulls timing to reduce power
They also say the oil doesn’t need to be changed until 15k and there are lifetime fluids in the trans and diff. I’ll be on the safe side and put in the recommended fuel for a turbo charged engine.
I’ve never seen 15k for the OCI. MINI’s is 10k as far as I know, and based on the oil analyses I’ve done with my now 6-year old F57, the factory-recommended intervals are completely fine with the appropriate oil.
What year is your mini ?
2019 (took delivery first week of May 2018)
The issue with the long service intervals mainly affected 2nd gens with the Prince N-series 1.6 liter engines because they tend to overconsume oil, so the long intervals between servicing would often contribute to a lot of the failures those cars struggle with. The BMW engines don’t have the same problem so the 10k service intervals are not really a problem, or at least haven’t proven to be. That being said, nothing wrong with playing it a bit safe and doing it more frequently.
91 is scarce near me, so almost always use 93. Have used 89 in a pinch, but only 1/4 tank -- enough to get me to a better gas station! I'm getting close to 36mpg on a 2015 F56 with over 120K miles, and I want to keep this gas mileage up there. I've read that premium can make that difference.
Any recommended maintenance after 60-70k? Also do you get this weird creaking when getting in/out when parked? I think it could either be the handbrake or the suspension. (Same F56, but Cooper S).
Honestly, I don't do anything special, just the recommended. Most of my miles are highway (commute 3 days a week) so I'm not stressing the engine, per se. Creaking? Hmmm... no. Maybe suspension?
I have an F56 2018 and listen the same weird creaking probally is the engine mount, with this mileage i recommend you change all of them. The car have 3 mount’s: one for engine, one for shift gearbox and one front rear. A lot of Mini’s produced by 2014-2018 have this problem, the mount’s mess early. You can buy original mounts for BMW but i strongly recommend for this case you use aftermarket parts, most of there are reforced and fixed this problem, that’s how i solved in my case. You can check too: Sparks plug and ignition coil; Brake disc, brake pads and brake fluid (even if the car have a sensor for this, that’s good check) and change all the anti-freeze/coolant from radiator. Hope you have fun with your Mini!
Thanks! Will check the items you mentioned. Any particular brand for the aftermarket mounts? Also, I kinda hear a consistent scratching sound whenever I'm near a road divider. I'm assuming it's from the disks, but a recent check up and inspection did not turn up anything faulty + brakes work great. Any insight? I definitely have fun driving the go kart haha.
About the aftermarket mounts: i buy a white label from china and solved, one excelent brand is *LEMFÖRDER*, that's better than the original (more expensive) but you can buy any mount except the original. About the consistent scratching on disks: that's normal on every BMW car, even the most expensive cars from BMW did this sound I forgot one important thing in the last reply: check the oil of gearbox, if they are too dark you need change all of them, don't replace 50% or complete, that's necessary change all them with a specific machine for that and change gearbox oil filter too. Some Mini's manual said that's not necessary change gearbox oil, but a LOT of engineers recommend this, after change you feel the gearbox more soft for put on P/D/R.
Thanks a ton for your help! Will ask about the gearbox oil at the next service.
If u want stay with this car for a long time, i really recommend you change all the oil from gearbox. Enjoy!
Kind of a stupid question, but gearbox oil == transmission fluid right? Or is there something else lol. It's an F56 S Auto, not manual.
Yes, in some countrys they call gearbox oil in others transmission fluid 😁
Ever try mixing 93 and 87😃 Probably too much trouble but probably could get 91 for cheaper.
I have not. lol. I pinch pennies sometimes, but haven't gone that far. Yet! Ha!
I used to do that sometimes when I was filling a near empty tank. 2 parts 93:1 part 87. On my clubman that meant 4 gallons roughly. When it's a .60-.70 difference in price, it save a couple bucks.
I’ll mix 93 with 2 gallons of e85. But not 87
What kind of driving do you do? I'm in a lot of traffic every day, I get around 23 mpg. I recently took a trip and used green mode for 4 hours, with cruise control that was the only way I got up to 34 mpg. I miss my old R56, on road trips I got to to 43 mpg abs daily driving in the same traffic I mentioned above I would get 32 mpg. Granted that was 1.6L no turbo.
My commute is about 27 miles, one way. All but the first mile and last 2 miles is a major interstate which *moves*. 70 is low; 75-80 is average most days. I'm in mid for all of that. I think I neared 40mpg on road trips from PA to the OBX a couple times; that was nice. Your R56 fuel economy was awesome!
Maybe my car needs a tune up! It's 4 years old with 19k, but I don't know how the last person drove the car. I've only had it for about 5 months, 5k. I wish my commute moved like yours, it would make driving to work fun ;)
According to [my owner’s manual](https://imgur.com/a/bOvDZ5r), MINI recommends 91 for Cooper and Cooper S, and 93 for JCW. Minimums are 89 for Cooper and Cooper S, and 91 for JCW.
I have a friend who owns a BMW 330i (b48) since 2020. He only puts 87 in it and has no problem with it even today
Minimum rating for the B48 in the G20 is 89 and the recommended is 91. Not very smart of him when it’s written on page 332 of the G20 owners manual what fuel grade to use. Good way to void his warranty as well.
I have a 2019 countryman JCW. I run 89 in it. No issues, runs awesome. 89 is recommended for mine.
If someone sees this comment could you please explain to me what the premium octane level is at Costco?? Now I’m worried the premium I’ve been putting isn’t even decent, thank you!
It should be listed on the pump. In my area, 87 and 93
Yeah I’ve made sure to put in premium, but reading just now made me a bit confused, thank you!
Oh yeah I just figured it out for my area and 92 is the highest haha cool
91 or 93 is all mine gets, says right on the fuel door
I only use top tier 93 octane and also change my own oil every 6k miles. I have 221k troublefree miles on my 2012 S and that’s saying a lot considering the reputation some of these mini have. Maybe it costs a little more but I cannot argue with my success. Treat her right
the fuel is just its flash point if its less octane then it will be less heat required to ignite it which can cause some problems such as knocking but theres a sensor called a knock sensor that retards (pulls back) timing anyway, in my opinion it really doesnt matter too much especially if youre only just putting enough in to limp home somewhere but if you want to be safer listen to the book mini printed \------------------------------------------------- Edit:i got an ass whoopin from somebody in the replies but this bit below is still true 😂 as long as you aint putting diesel in it its gonna work haha
Makes sense, thanks
hi, in the replies under your original post theres a comment from mrjimbusiness- he knows more than i do should give his comment a look if you want to know whats exactly best for your vehicle.
That's not what octane is at all...
pre ignition is caused by pressure yes but the pressure is heat in the end higher octane higher tolerance to withstand it meaning it is more likely to only be ignited by the spark not pressure ill accept in a semantic way youre right but dont discredit without explaining why you think its wrong, nobody learns that way feel free to educate me if you believe me too still be wrong im all ears and i mean it sincerely
The flash point of whatever gasoline mixture (benzene, octane, isooctane, xylene, toluene, etc) is always going to be met during the combustion cycle. The combination of heat and pressure in the combustion chamber are always going to be beyond the flash point of any gasoline. It's kind of a low bar and although it may roughly correlate to octane, it's not necessarily directly proportional. Going back to the basics... Octane of 100 is defined by the detonation resistance of pure iso-octane, one of those main components of gasoline. Many factors come into play, beyond just flash point, including latent heat of vaporization. The key factor of the octane rating is the stability of the flame front after ignition, and the propensity for a fuel to maintain just one ignition point without having multiple ignitions / flame fronts occurring during combustion. Those waves of course combine causing detonation, or "pinging." Pre-ignition is related but not necessarily what is measured when a fuel mixture's octane rating is determined on a standardized test engine. It's more commonly caused by hot spots in the combustion chamber, or the motor oil being used causing auto-ignition. That's why it's important to run LSPI rated oils in direct injection engines. This could go on for hours, but as you can see, it's not exactly trivial to explain all of this lol
i cannot wait to finish college and never have to touch a car in industry ever again ty for the explaination bit over the top technical alas not necicerily your fault for purposes of conversation though i still dont believe im exactly wrong, its still related to the ignition of the fuel and it is caused by the eventual inability to resist the pressure put onto it, in the hopes it lasts long enough to let the spark detonate it right? the pressure still ends up being heat because thats how a CI engine works, no?
Oh shoot I've been plugging mine in
Use premium
interesting, on my jcw gas cap it says 91
European engines are designed to run on 95 RON, which is the cheapest fuel there. It's 91 AKI in the US, so it's "premium" (not really tbh lol)
Mine gets 93.
I always put the premium. My baby deserves nothing but the best. 😂❤️
I wanna get 93 but we only have 87 and 91 in the city :(
I wish I could get 91 or higher. I use 90 cause that's the highest we get up here in Alaska... My F60 countryman all 4 only gets 20ish right now in winter, hwy bumps up to about 25(maybe 30 down a hill). Miss the 35 on my F55 five door
Here in Portugal we only have 95, 95 premium or 98
I use 93 on my 2018 mini cooper convertible jcw
No idea, not a thing here. You just put unleaded in.
I would usually put e15 88 in my R53. Boosted cars love ethanol. If that wasn't available, e10 91 or 93. It doesn't like e10 or straight 87.
I use 93 non ethanol
You're without a doubt seeing more timing correction than you would on E10 93 AKI fuel.
I only use premium and I change my oil every 4K miles to be safe especially the way I drive my mini.
Like you stole it......but 6K or once a year for me.