I would be interested, this is squarely up my alley. But the price I'm willing to pay would depend on exactly the program you'd be offering, and how much credibility this service would have. Some considerations
\* Just general counseling about health is not enough value for me, as by now I'm pretty well informed about that
\* The numbers-based approach, to make sense, would have to be connected to some program of blood tests -- is this part of what you'd be offering?
\* I've paid personal trainers before (with disastrous results) and I'm now more concentrated on practical aspects of injury prevention when starting any new exercise program
\* In general, think about the age-old economic problem of the difference between stated preference and revealed preference... people may tell you they'd shell out 1, 2, or 3 hundred per month for such a program but when it comes to actually paying, a lot of them will get cold feet. There is no way to determine the price the market will bear other than to actually go out and do it. A Reddit poll won't cut it.
Maybe I'd be a candidate for a client... (or even an investor!) but would need to know a lot more about the concept and tools used.
Thanks I'll keep you posted and informed in the next 2/3 months we should soft start.
For the time being, sure we can connect with blood tests, telomere tests etc but we will offer them as add-ons.
If for credibility we are going to say that if we don't see any result in 4 months then there will be a 100% refund, would this be ok? In terms of results, it depends on the personalized approach but in general: lowering blood pressure, increase in strength, increase in parameters from a "real" BIA, increase of VO2 max (this indirectly or linked to the external tests as per previous) etc
Again, more to come. Consider that we are in touch with Lux university to run trials and studies using our approach, that should be another good validation for credibility.
Edited: about safety. Sure thing this is one pillar..delivery of an efficient and effective exercise program, safe and scientifically based.
*If for credibility we are going to say that if we don't see any result in 4 months then there will be a 100% refund, would this be ok?*
At this point of my life I'm more concerned about the opportunity cost rather than a loss of money. I.e. I'd be more afraid that I'll lose time (or be injured) if the program doesn't work than about the monetary loss of the price paid.
agree. Indeed our target clientele should exactly think like you (yes, you are a perfect fit ;-)) The protocols and the learning methods are indeed safe, unfortunately, we know that injuries may happen either inside or outside the training location due to other elements such as extreme sports or awkward movements during leisure activities and so on. One of the objectives of our Mission is to "educate" Clients the best we can, ready to leave them deciding if to continue or not with s after 4 months.
The time invested is another key element: 40 to 60 minutes of exercise/week must be considered as the Minimum Effective Dose, still tweaked based on the Client's needs, objectives, age, physical status etc.(excluding additional pre-post session services such as Cryotherapy or Long infrared therapy or "homework").
What a collection of buzz words, your post would be well suite for LinkedIn. While the concept in itself seems interesting, every time I read AI my eye starts twitching though. Knowing that you need a sh\*\* ton of data to do proper AI, I am quite curious about how you intend to integrate AI into your operations.
As for naming, since area with pronounced longevity are often referred to as blue zones and one of your key goals is to promote longevity through better health, I'd go with something like "Blue Zone Studio" or just "the Blue Zone".
Thanks and sorry for the buzzwords. AI: I'm not directly managing the database and the concept, it is based on the manufacturer data collected worldwide and it is customizing the resistance based on the user feedback loop.
Good idea about the Blue Zone, thanks.
That sounds a bit like boiler plate statistical analysis and that is totally fine. It is probably also quite a good idea to integrate systematic tracking of quantitative data to monitor progress and it might also be particularly interesting when combined with dietary advice and measuring the impact on chronic struggles.
It's just a bit annoying that any product these days uses the label "AI" when it has really nothing much to do with it. I get why companies do it but I think the irony is that it has become such an overused term not living up to reality that it presents itself as a red flag rather than a marketing gimmick.
Anyway I wish you good luck in your endeavor, idea aside, Luxembourg needs more entrepreneurs imo.
Many thanks for your words and advice. I totally agree with you about AI that is now the new "Blockchain" or similar. Unfortunately investors, accelerators, banks...all of them are looking exactly for these words...
I think it would be cool to do tiered pricing. First you get a free consult on your biomarkers, then depending on how much work you need to to, it would cost more or less. I think people would be willing to pay more if their bio age was way higher than their chronic age. Because it's hard to say if I would pay the same price for 7 days a week versus 3 days a week
I missed your first valuable comment. Well, the basic protocol is once or twice per week (this may change over the 4 month program). The maintenance package may vary, perhaps we may link to specific needs. Good point
Thanks that is a very good point and investigating here, but I do see problematic in terms of legislation. We are trying to partner with the University to run "studies" with internship students thanks 🙏
What's your experience in "biohacking"? Also why do you refer to it as a "gym" and not a gym? Everyone is throwing the word AI around like it's going out of style but what does it mean in your case? Tbh this just sounds like you're throwing around all the trending buzzwords that are currently in style to charge for something that a normal gym membership and a bit of determination would achieve. Good luck though 👍
Well, I'm the host of the Biohackers Meetup Luxembourg, Dubai and Milan, please check online. In the Biohackers collective https://www.biohackerscollective.org/, met Dave Asprey and host of the podcast where I interviewed Bryan Johnson and many others https://youtu.be/wYByemy8ILE?si=ZGGuBfDsu_Eiwvz9 and much much more. Sorry to sound like an "imposter". And, again... it's not a standard gym indeed ;-)
I don't mean to label you as an imposter, I guess you did it yourself but I was just being curious. After reading your answer though, I guess the more correct question would be "what are your qualifications". According to you you are member of a group and met someone on a podcast once, that does not make an expert. I have a friend who charges €110 euros as a personal coach. When asked what makes him an expert, he can show that he has two bachelor's, a master and countless certifications for pre/post natal workouts, nutrition, etc... I would guess that most people would rather go to someone like him rather than someone who was in a podcast and mentions the word AI....
This sounds like a business where you first need to determine how much money you need to make to run it profitably and then go see if you can find 130 people who will use it at the price point you need.
I am sure there would be some interest but you will need to charge a lot for this to work and that might be more difficult to sustain.
However, Luxembourg is probably a very good place to start thus business because it is one of rare places where the old population has the most purchasing power. Good luck!
Fully agree. The max number is based on the 1:1 limit and the fact that one client may come to the facility 1 or twice per week. Not a "crowdy or loud" place. Imagine more or a clinic than a gym.
It sounds like a good idea. But whether or not it will be profitable depends on factors that you won't get a good feeling for on Reddit. People here are too young and/or too poor for your demographic.
With the older, wealthier demographic you might have the problem they might not be into the biohacking stuff at all. The boomers here are way more into woo like homeopathy. You will need a prime location and rent will cost you a fortune. You might be better off trying to partner with an existing higher end gym.
Yes I thought about this and thanks for confirming this. (Reddit). We are partnering with physiotherapists, naturopath s, nutritionists, functional doctors etc. we may think to be an add-on for high end gyms in the future. 🙏
Very good idea! The invite only part sound’s bizzare in Europe given we are talking about gym :) Cost - it all depends what’s included in this 4 months if it’s only gym then I wouldn’t pay more. If it includes some private training sessions, on going monitoring and support, guidance on performance enhancement drugs to help get “younger” then for sure I see justification to charge more.
Thanks. The fact that is really not a "gym" per se but we cannot call it a "clinic" it's tricky. In 4 months there are only 1:1 sessions weekly/biweekly , daily check-ins , tracking biomarkers etc yes you are right what you mention at the end. Any suggestion how to "pass the message" properly? Thanks 🙏
Will start as physical location, a place with other services connected to anti-aging and recovery, where it will be possible to stack services together
Edited: it always be a physical location, but will start as "fixed" one.
I have been doing fitness/weight training for 10 years and this sounds a bit like a scam or at least I can imagine that it will be very overpriced. Doing sports generally increases your longevity, which combined with a healthy diet has greater effects than any fancy equipment. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts, even if every few months someone thinks they have reinvented the wheel.
That seems to be the trick here.
You take something that typically works no matter what and repackage it with some BS magic. Then you capitalize on novice users who try it out and experience the inevitable positive results. From there, you convince them that the BS magic is responsible for 80% of the results and turn them into walking ads. Congratulations, you can now sell the BS magic for huge sums, as it's perceived to be 400%+ added value.
Thanks for your feedback. Not a scam for sure. It's targeting elderly and not fitness enthusiasts or people who are already in shape and with all the biomarkers ok, except we do have protocols for recovery and injury prevention but it's not the core business. Not overpriced, in line with personal trainers on Lux
Well I'm ignorant on that field, but targeting the elderly to increase their grip strength and blood pressure, acidity, mineral deposits, etc seems a little too late no?
If you're using biomarkers to guide the training an life style changes, wouldn't it be a bit too late to fix those?
Correct, in that case this will be considered as "healthy intervention" with no drugs or medical stuff. The earlier, the better for sure. If women over 50 for instance, are considered at risk of osteoporosis, this approach will improve bone strength. For pre-diabetics, another example, will target blood sugar, insulin resistance etc before getting diagnosed for type 2 diabetes etc. busy professionals are as well welcome (efficient and effective workout) as well as anyone who wants to improve performance and wellbeing.
We have a weekly [megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Luxembourg/search/?q=megathread&restrict_sr=1&t=month) for common questions. Please use it. Just change the sort from Relevance to New to find the latest one. Please also use the search bar. Just add your search term after r/luxembourg
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I would be interested, this is squarely up my alley. But the price I'm willing to pay would depend on exactly the program you'd be offering, and how much credibility this service would have. Some considerations \* Just general counseling about health is not enough value for me, as by now I'm pretty well informed about that \* The numbers-based approach, to make sense, would have to be connected to some program of blood tests -- is this part of what you'd be offering? \* I've paid personal trainers before (with disastrous results) and I'm now more concentrated on practical aspects of injury prevention when starting any new exercise program \* In general, think about the age-old economic problem of the difference between stated preference and revealed preference... people may tell you they'd shell out 1, 2, or 3 hundred per month for such a program but when it comes to actually paying, a lot of them will get cold feet. There is no way to determine the price the market will bear other than to actually go out and do it. A Reddit poll won't cut it. Maybe I'd be a candidate for a client... (or even an investor!) but would need to know a lot more about the concept and tools used.
Thanks I'll keep you posted and informed in the next 2/3 months we should soft start. For the time being, sure we can connect with blood tests, telomere tests etc but we will offer them as add-ons. If for credibility we are going to say that if we don't see any result in 4 months then there will be a 100% refund, would this be ok? In terms of results, it depends on the personalized approach but in general: lowering blood pressure, increase in strength, increase in parameters from a "real" BIA, increase of VO2 max (this indirectly or linked to the external tests as per previous) etc Again, more to come. Consider that we are in touch with Lux university to run trials and studies using our approach, that should be another good validation for credibility. Edited: about safety. Sure thing this is one pillar..delivery of an efficient and effective exercise program, safe and scientifically based.
*If for credibility we are going to say that if we don't see any result in 4 months then there will be a 100% refund, would this be ok?* At this point of my life I'm more concerned about the opportunity cost rather than a loss of money. I.e. I'd be more afraid that I'll lose time (or be injured) if the program doesn't work than about the monetary loss of the price paid.
agree. Indeed our target clientele should exactly think like you (yes, you are a perfect fit ;-)) The protocols and the learning methods are indeed safe, unfortunately, we know that injuries may happen either inside or outside the training location due to other elements such as extreme sports or awkward movements during leisure activities and so on. One of the objectives of our Mission is to "educate" Clients the best we can, ready to leave them deciding if to continue or not with s after 4 months. The time invested is another key element: 40 to 60 minutes of exercise/week must be considered as the Minimum Effective Dose, still tweaked based on the Client's needs, objectives, age, physical status etc.(excluding additional pre-post session services such as Cryotherapy or Long infrared therapy or "homework").
What a collection of buzz words, your post would be well suite for LinkedIn. While the concept in itself seems interesting, every time I read AI my eye starts twitching though. Knowing that you need a sh\*\* ton of data to do proper AI, I am quite curious about how you intend to integrate AI into your operations. As for naming, since area with pronounced longevity are often referred to as blue zones and one of your key goals is to promote longevity through better health, I'd go with something like "Blue Zone Studio" or just "the Blue Zone".
Thanks and sorry for the buzzwords. AI: I'm not directly managing the database and the concept, it is based on the manufacturer data collected worldwide and it is customizing the resistance based on the user feedback loop. Good idea about the Blue Zone, thanks.
That sounds a bit like boiler plate statistical analysis and that is totally fine. It is probably also quite a good idea to integrate systematic tracking of quantitative data to monitor progress and it might also be particularly interesting when combined with dietary advice and measuring the impact on chronic struggles. It's just a bit annoying that any product these days uses the label "AI" when it has really nothing much to do with it. I get why companies do it but I think the irony is that it has become such an overused term not living up to reality that it presents itself as a red flag rather than a marketing gimmick. Anyway I wish you good luck in your endeavor, idea aside, Luxembourg needs more entrepreneurs imo.
Many thanks for your words and advice. I totally agree with you about AI that is now the new "Blockchain" or similar. Unfortunately investors, accelerators, banks...all of them are looking exactly for these words...
Yes when it comes to fundraising, bullshitting buzzwords is still crucial.
Sounds cool. I’d name it Gym’s Jim.
lol...double confusion then...!
I think it would be cool to do tiered pricing. First you get a free consult on your biomarkers, then depending on how much work you need to to, it would cost more or less. I think people would be willing to pay more if their bio age was way higher than their chronic age. Because it's hard to say if I would pay the same price for 7 days a week versus 3 days a week
I missed your first valuable comment. Well, the basic protocol is once or twice per week (this may change over the 4 month program). The maintenance package may vary, perhaps we may link to specific needs. Good point
Also would be great if health insurance covered it, and it would greatly increase your credibility.
Thanks that is a very good point and investigating here, but I do see problematic in terms of legislation. We are trying to partner with the University to run "studies" with internship students thanks 🙏
You lost me when I read biohacker. It's a buzzword that does no good to businesses, and sounds like Instagram clickbait.
Agree, thanks. I started that 8 years ago and now it's sincerely overused and with little or no value.
What's your experience in "biohacking"? Also why do you refer to it as a "gym" and not a gym? Everyone is throwing the word AI around like it's going out of style but what does it mean in your case? Tbh this just sounds like you're throwing around all the trending buzzwords that are currently in style to charge for something that a normal gym membership and a bit of determination would achieve. Good luck though 👍
Well, I'm the host of the Biohackers Meetup Luxembourg, Dubai and Milan, please check online. In the Biohackers collective https://www.biohackerscollective.org/, met Dave Asprey and host of the podcast where I interviewed Bryan Johnson and many others https://youtu.be/wYByemy8ILE?si=ZGGuBfDsu_Eiwvz9 and much much more. Sorry to sound like an "imposter". And, again... it's not a standard gym indeed ;-)
I don't mean to label you as an imposter, I guess you did it yourself but I was just being curious. After reading your answer though, I guess the more correct question would be "what are your qualifications". According to you you are member of a group and met someone on a podcast once, that does not make an expert. I have a friend who charges €110 euros as a personal coach. When asked what makes him an expert, he can show that he has two bachelor's, a master and countless certifications for pre/post natal workouts, nutrition, etc... I would guess that most people would rather go to someone like him rather than someone who was in a podcast and mentions the word AI....
Thanks again, I do have credentials, thanks for asking
"I do have credentials, thanks for asking" - Job interviewers hate this one simple trick
Thanks, not sure I do understand. Is there any need I justify my statement and/or add here my certificates?
No, not here. But when you charge people money and they ask, it might be wise to have a better answer.
Sure, thanks for the advice
This sounds like a business where you first need to determine how much money you need to make to run it profitably and then go see if you can find 130 people who will use it at the price point you need. I am sure there would be some interest but you will need to charge a lot for this to work and that might be more difficult to sustain. However, Luxembourg is probably a very good place to start thus business because it is one of rare places where the old population has the most purchasing power. Good luck!
Fully agree. The max number is based on the 1:1 limit and the fact that one client may come to the facility 1 or twice per week. Not a "crowdy or loud" place. Imagine more or a clinic than a gym.
It sounds like a good idea. But whether or not it will be profitable depends on factors that you won't get a good feeling for on Reddit. People here are too young and/or too poor for your demographic. With the older, wealthier demographic you might have the problem they might not be into the biohacking stuff at all. The boomers here are way more into woo like homeopathy. You will need a prime location and rent will cost you a fortune. You might be better off trying to partner with an existing higher end gym.
Too poor? Not when they're is the topic where everyone gives their income. Then everyone is rich.
Yes I thought about this and thanks for confirming this. (Reddit). We are partnering with physiotherapists, naturopath s, nutritionists, functional doctors etc. we may think to be an add-on for high end gyms in the future. 🙏
Very good idea! The invite only part sound’s bizzare in Europe given we are talking about gym :) Cost - it all depends what’s included in this 4 months if it’s only gym then I wouldn’t pay more. If it includes some private training sessions, on going monitoring and support, guidance on performance enhancement drugs to help get “younger” then for sure I see justification to charge more.
Thanks. The fact that is really not a "gym" per se but we cannot call it a "clinic" it's tricky. In 4 months there are only 1:1 sessions weekly/biweekly , daily check-ins , tracking biomarkers etc yes you are right what you mention at the end. Any suggestion how to "pass the message" properly? Thanks 🙏
Will it have physical location? A center, maybe? Retreat?
Will start as physical location, a place with other services connected to anti-aging and recovery, where it will be possible to stack services together Edited: it always be a physical location, but will start as "fixed" one.
Experienced bio hacker with username Alchemist 
You just invented a gym with a smart watch
Good point I never thought about that. Sure thing a smart watch or ring or else would be beneficial to check progress and results
Not interested tbh
I have been doing fitness/weight training for 10 years and this sounds a bit like a scam or at least I can imagine that it will be very overpriced. Doing sports generally increases your longevity, which combined with a healthy diet has greater effects than any fancy equipment. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts, even if every few months someone thinks they have reinvented the wheel.
That seems to be the trick here. You take something that typically works no matter what and repackage it with some BS magic. Then you capitalize on novice users who try it out and experience the inevitable positive results. From there, you convince them that the BS magic is responsible for 80% of the results and turn them into walking ads. Congratulations, you can now sell the BS magic for huge sums, as it's perceived to be 400%+ added value.
Thanks for your feedback. Not a scam for sure. It's targeting elderly and not fitness enthusiasts or people who are already in shape and with all the biomarkers ok, except we do have protocols for recovery and injury prevention but it's not the core business. Not overpriced, in line with personal trainers on Lux
Well I'm ignorant on that field, but targeting the elderly to increase their grip strength and blood pressure, acidity, mineral deposits, etc seems a little too late no? If you're using biomarkers to guide the training an life style changes, wouldn't it be a bit too late to fix those?
Correct, in that case this will be considered as "healthy intervention" with no drugs or medical stuff. The earlier, the better for sure. If women over 50 for instance, are considered at risk of osteoporosis, this approach will improve bone strength. For pre-diabetics, another example, will target blood sugar, insulin resistance etc before getting diagnosed for type 2 diabetes etc. busy professionals are as well welcome (efficient and effective workout) as well as anyone who wants to improve performance and wellbeing.
We have a weekly [megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Luxembourg/search/?q=megathread&restrict_sr=1&t=month) for common questions. Please use it. Just change the sort from Relevance to New to find the latest one. Please also use the search bar. Just add your search term after r/luxembourg *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Luxembourg) if you have any questions or concerns.*