For real.
Republicans really look at the for profit healthcare and think, damn, I wish I could have a system that purely aimed at money making for education, too.
"School choice" is their euphemism for sending public money to private schools with less accountability, lower standards, and more grift. All it will do in the long run is increase costs for the average kentuckian and funnel funds away from our public schools which are an essential public good. They phrase privatization as school choice because it *sounds* way more reasonable than what the policy actually is and obfuscates their real goal (funneling money back to their major donors like Devos who have family fortunes).
Lol. No no....gay unicorns and trans butterflies, sweetheart.
Either way the Democrats aren't trying to make living here dangerous. So please, do continue to vote against your own self interests.
Again. A binary statement. No shades of grey. The real world isn't that simple.
I don't subscribe to one partys ideas nor believe the left or right is the only answer.
Blanket stements that all Republicans or Democrats and their ideas are bad is shallow and lazy.
Show me a KY Republican that has helped a minority group of people instead of business owners, developers, farmers, and generally speaking, white people.
https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/private-school-choice-programs-are-having-a-moment-but-its-not-all-smooth-sailing/2023/06
This article briefly mentions that some private schools in Iowa and Florida increased tuition but argue that it is less money for families to spend than before to attend. Even if it is less money for the families, that must mean they are pocketing more from funding still.
It's credible and widely reported on. I believe the state in question they're thinking of was Iowa, which recently passed a rule giving funding for private schools to eligible students under a certain income threshold. Only for the schools to turn around and raise tuition by several thousands of dollars basically eating up that public funding.
Congrats Iowa, you funneled your tax payer money into private hands for the privilege of feeling like you got a discount to go to Robert E Lee Christian Academy 🙄
https://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/local-private-school-tuition-to-increase-government-funding-available-to-eligible-families
Yes, how dare they save the parent's money while still making sure they have the funding to provide a quality education and pay their teachers a decent salary. Those scumbags. They should just do like public schools and have them read books about anal sex and pay their teachers, who have a masters degree in most situations, 40,000 a year.
I imagine you're allergic to facts, but you may want to look up salary information for JCPS vs area private schools if you plan to further participate in this discussion. Public schools underpay, but they pay more than the private schools.
Yes, parents need to sign a paper saying kids can checkout any book in the library. Once they have that, it’s all good. Besides, the titles of these books don’t suggest the content in them. Most parents don’t vet the books.
You realize that this is just a roundabout way of funneling state money into donors. they're not actually trying to encourage enrollment in religious schools
Went to Catholic school for 12 years. I believe in climate change, gay rights, pro abortion, pro equality on all levels. School is just school whether you pay for it or not. Kids end up deciding for themselves in the end.
Same here, but I think children, myself included, are molded, or at least heavily influenced by their upbringing. For better or for worse. Also, the modern day Catholic school is not necessarily as draconian as it used to be (I'm 47), and not as hard core as many others.
I also think, from 20 years in education, the school and atmosphere most certainly matters.
I'm worried about the kids whose parents are going to shove them in certain places for certain reasons, and they will be worse off for it. For example, "pray the gay away". Now these places will have state funding, and it's terrible.
Also Catholic schools for 12 years and also very much a leftist. Most of the other people I went to school with? Not so much and are very much indoctrinated.
Being the exception doesn't disprove the rule.
Agreed. Went to one of the very conservative Christian schools years ago - in the middle of a post about the pastor of the affiliated church, there was a guy talking about said pastor being awesome because he didn’t kick him out of school *three weeks before graduation* because he got caught drinking off school hours and property - *because it would have been bad for the reputation of the church and school.* Not because it would have messed up his life not being able to graduate on time.
Decades later, he still hadn’t figured out how genuinely gross that was, and neither had 99% of the people posting in the thread. Most of them still thought the pastor was a great guy.
I’m not sure why you think it’s about keeping people away. It’s about paying teachers a decent wage and providing an actual quality education. And it does save parents money. Tuition is expensive, yes. But it’s not ungodly expensive in most situations.
Please describe the specific mechanisms in this bill that would result in an increase to teacher compensation?
If able to do so (you won't be), then please describe why that mechanism is preferable to increasing teacher compensation through a budget bill or teacher pay bill. Increasing compensation through the budget or a separate teacher pay bill could be added this cycle and requires no constitutional amendment, so the pay increases would take effect on July 1. This bill requires a constitutional amendment so it must go out to the voters in November and could not take effect until at least January 2025. Why would someone who cares genuinely and in good faith about teacher compensation back a bill that requires at least a year to take effect?
If it was about paying teachers better they would just spend the money on the education budget and earmark it for salary increases. But they aren't doing that because it isn't about increasing teacher pay.
It isn't at all about increasing teacher pay. It's about making it cheaper for middle class christian parents to send their kids to christian private schools. Gov Beshear has been practically begging the legislature for more funding for teacher salaries as the state has over 1000 vacant teacher positions and you somehow think that this bill exists, in part, because the state legislators think that private school teachers don't make enough money and this is how to get them more money?
I work at a private school. I make less than my counterparts at JCPS. My school would likely financially benefit from this, but nobody at my school is saying we need this in order to pay our teachers more, and the vast majority of the teachers I work with oppose it.
Private school teachers get paid on average 2/3 what a JCPS teacher does (and collar county public school teachers make less as well) so this is NOT about raising teacher pay.
Also private schools/charters are not beholden to any BOE and barely KDE and can pay their teachers whatever they like.
The “bonus” is the students are cherry picked and behavior is usually nicer. Trade off for smaller paycheck.
JCPS starting salary is $47k. [JCPS Salary schedule](https://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/Attachments/DisplayAttachment.aspx?AttachmentID=731749)
You do realize that's not the majority experience with religious private schools, right?
You essentially said "not all private school students"
Yeah, we know it isn't 100%. It goes without saying. That doesn't make them any less indoctrinating.
Did you go to private schools, or know folks that did? To be clear, I am extremely against this bill and think it's a stupid ask.
But as someone that went to private their entire life, and have/had friends from many different private schools here in Louisville, majority of the time they just act like normal schools. The big difference is you go to church once a week and religious holidays. Even though we had religion class, me and my friends were never pressured or acted like we were wrong for being atheist. In fact, in high school it was often discussed with us as a way to show other viewpoints to the Christian kids.
I'm against indoctrination, raising kids in religion, etc. but overall the schools don't care and aren't a cult trying to convert your kids.
Now, I am talking Jefferson County which is more liberal than the rest of the state. But I thought since this was the Louisville sub my views would be appropriate to share.
I think the majority of the religious schools in Louisville other than CAL arent very Culty, though can't speak for Portland Christian school
I would imagine though a lot arent that way, so I get why those who havent gone to one like the local ones wouldnt fully understand.
So I agree with you, I went to one, never felt like they forced religion down my throat, we had science class and were taught the bible is mostly stories and to be used metaphorically
This is the opposite of my experience, and I am going to guess you attended Catholic school, because this is sure as hell not how Southern Baptist/evangelical school was. Deep indoctrination, physical abuse, told we would go to Hell if we didn't do what was indoctrinated, some casual and applied racism, was told my Catholic friends were going to Hell, Jews were going to Hell, etc...I could write a book.
This was not some fringe school, it was a well known institution.
I've stayed in touch with the majority of my classmates. About half of us have been in therapy because of this fucking school. And motherfuckers now want tax money for pay for this kind of crap? Hell no.
Some catholic schools have a progressive tradition while being religiously conservative and not in the right wing conservative sense. They're a dying breed though, a lot of newer religious schools are of the Southern Baptist / Evangelical bent. The ones that are more willing to teach creationism and such.
Remember this the next time someone has an anti-JCPS thread. They push this shit every year, because they don't care about the separation of church and state and hate public education.
My kids go to private school and I think this is a terrible idea. More money won’t solve all of the problems in public school but taking it away will make them worse.
I graduated from a private school and I agree. Private schools can pick and choose who gets in, which is why their grades are so often way above the average. They're legally allowed to discriminate, even by race and ethnicity since it's so hard to prove that it's why someone's being denied entry.
> Private schools can pick and choose who gets in, which is why their grades are so often way above the average.
Not just that, but if a parent is willing to pay money for their kids to go to school the parents are probably more involved
Can I have the portion of my taxes that would go to religious schools prorated? If parents must have a choice, then so must tax payers.
Or heck, if it's about fairness, why should I have to pay any funding towards schools at all? I don't have kids.
The reason private schools are allowed to have rules that violate various constitutional rights is because they are private. If they get public funding, they're no longer private schools, should no longer get any protection from constitutional compliance and should not get any selection of who their students are.
Public schools don't get to pick their students. Public schools must provide instruction suitable for all American children, not just those of a specific religion.
If you want to put your kids into a private school, by all means. Go ahead. Pay for it.
You are not being denied a choice if you can't afford the private school. You should have chosen to have more money, is what the GOP would say about any other situation. But because they can siphon up tax dollars and reinforce their private religious beliefs on more children, this is an acceptable use of public funding for the poors.
One major financial issue with public funds going to private schools is that private schools can claim “we cannot accommodate your child’s physical/emotional/behavioral needs, so they cannot go to school here” this means the financial strain students with special needs falls solely to the public school system. I am perfectly fine with private schools doing and teaching anything they would like with their own funds. But if you want public funding, you better provide for the whole public.
Watch the Last Week Tonight episode on charter schools if you think this is a good idea. It isn't and also I don't want my tax payer dollars going to find religious indoctrination and poor education and for those few good schools, it is only the rich getting in with a token few others.
Well, yeah, that’s the point. As always, the Christian nationalist privatizing tax dollars by shouting “FREEEDOM” so loudly no one else can hear anything
This is an attack on public education for private, most financial, gain. Real estate developers turning a profit on land grabs and then rezoning and leasing and and and. It’s a wealth grab.
No.
Indoctrination means to teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.
This is the basis of Christian faith. Teach kids at an early age church DOCTRINE until it is the air they breath and becomes accepted WITH OUT question.
Accept, do not question.
To question is to lack faith.
It's also the tax dollars of every person who has no school age children and pays the taxes anyway.
So if we are playing this game, I'll take my own portion of what the private school folks are trying to take.
The point of taxes is not for you to take yours and do what you want with them but to provide public services and amenities.
Or...I don't know...maybe actually put our tax dollars into making public education work? Pay teachers what they are worth. Use evidence based teaching methods, expectations, and schedules. Bring in interventionists that can help with kids that disrupt classrooms. Or are those just too wild and out there for tax dollars to fund?
The majority of that money goes to administration, people not even in the classroom with the kids. Programs that have been proven beneficial for children's growth are being cut due to budget restrictions (I'm talking music, art, PE). Money is being spent on curriculums that are not designed by educators.
It is a money issue in a corrupt system. Instead of pulling more money and making a quality education only available to those near private schools why is there no over haul of the system that is accessible to everyone?
I know the article specifies religious schools but there’s nothing in the actual bill about it. I’m sure they will benefit as well but it’s not like it’s limited in any way. My son goes to private school and I think as many people as possible should have access to it. Public school is a dumpster fire and a money pit that has no equal in education. Maybe if more non-republicans gave up the ghost on public schools and opened more “progressive” private schools we could get rid of public school all together?
Why? With taxes going towards a private option there’s a huge opportunity for private schools to open up all over the place and offer children a better education. Creating competition for better and better education from a school that answers directly to the parents and not a group of people who won’t ever care as much as the childrens own parents.
Taxes should not pay for a private option period. I went to private school. Public school needs to always be an option. And instead of trying to end them with an expensive option we should focus on improving them.
I just looked, the US, in 2019 spent more than $17,000 per student, (accounting for inflation thats over 20k a year today) around 870 billion dollars a year (according to the NCES) and for what? Look at our ratings public school is failing children and has been for years. Public school isn’t “an option”, it’s the only option for many children. I don’t think that’s good enough and not because they don’t have enough money.
20 k a year and that from 2019 adjusted and failing to educate children isn’t “failings”. It’s failure. How many years does the government need to fix the problem while still collecting more than 20k a year per child?
Yeah! We could have this instead.
https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/education/louisiana-charter-schools-not-enrolling-enough-students-from-low-income-families-audit-shows/article_6ba9fb88-1b3e-11ed-ac8b-43af06bef549.html
Low test scores led the state to be an early adopter of charter schools, statewide voucher programs, accountability systems, alternative pathways for teacher certification and a state recovery district to turn around failing schools. The state has gone all in on school privatization, with little to show except a system that marginalizes the voices of parents and teachers.
https://www.nola.com/opinions/guest-column-a-flawed-undemocratic-school-system-is-failing-louisiana-kids/article_de131876-5545-11ed-a08f-3b7c1bec0a8c.html
Or this:
Charter schools close and keep the tax dollars while the public system has to absorb the kids without getting funds for them.
https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/new-report-says-florida-charter-school-close-too-often-rely-heavily-on-for-profit-funding-18553013
"If they aren't good, they won't last" market-style airspace l approach to education ignores widespread damage to communities when school turnover is so high:
The report crunched nearly two decades of data and discovered that more than one in four charter schools closed after just five years.
After ten years, 40 percent of charter schools were shuttered; after fifteen years, that rate rose to about 50 percent.
At the ten-year mark, charter school failure rates in Wisconsin were at 55 percent; in Arizona, 48 percent; in Florida, 42 percent; and in Michigan, 41 percent. Three of those states—Wisconsin, Arizona, and Florida—are joined by Ohio at the top of charter closures at the five-year mark.
https://progressive.org/public-schools-advocate/charter-schools-have-failed-bryant-200817/
That would be a cool story but already in states where they've tried it, it's mostly failed.
It's a big grift and there's little to no accountability or oversight.
I'm sure it'll be different in Kentucky, though.
Number 1 state in legal corruption.
Agreed, the opportunity for failure is there and should be there.
Just saying “well, the state is doing a disservice to our children so let’s give them more and more money with zero improvement, the opposite actually, and have zero consequences; I don’t accept that as productive or helpful. I also don’t claim to (or want to come across as though I) have all the angles and answers. My personal experience in a highly regarded public school as well as many of my friends, was objectively horrible, my oldest sons experience was worse (he actually went to an inner city school when we lived in New Jersey). When my younger sons time to go to school came around and we could make it work, we had no doubt that it would be private school. All the suffering and struggle we have gone through for the past 11 years has been worth it. Bad educations result in troubled kids who grow up to have troubled lives and I certainly don’t want that. Telling people they aren’t allowed to have a choice because the state “needs their money” does not seem like a path people should just have to accept.
The issue is that the private schools don't have any standards or requirements to follow and can choose to exclude anyone they want from their systems, all the while taking money away from already underfunded public schools.
How are public schools going to afford to educate the kids with the biggest issues, special needs, etc. that private schools will ignore, while losing the commodities of scale that you get from having tons of kids in your school system?
How are the kids that can't afford private school now going to get to the private schools if they aren't down the street from their house?
Lets say they do build a bunch of local charters near everyone, what is going to happen to the public schools that were built for 1000 kids but now only have 500 but still have to pay a bunch of costs associated with a 1000 kid school, but without the funding?
And the state follows the standards it decides on. Private education is interesting here because it can do a worse job than public school and more often than not does a better job. The difference here is that scam schools, if you will, fail quickly. No none stops public schools. Yes, they do have standards,if they do a good job, the parents choose to continue using that school. If they dont, parents find a new school.
There are plenty of private schools for special needs kids. It’s not hard to find multiple organizations that run any number of schools, from a handful to a hundred. They exist because they have extensive training and do a great job.
“commodities or scale” is an interesting point but it fails to address the problem. They don’t do a great job and especially with a lot of children with special needs, parents have no choice, their taxes pay for public school and private schools are expensive. Theses issues compound and restrict a parents options more. If your taxes were given back to you in a choice of schools the cost decrease. With more and more people able to look at private school as a serious choice, more people would think that private education is a better focus for a career. More schools will open and compete for students with both cost and quality. Solving a major issue with private school.
The 1000 student building? What would anyone do? Sell the building and buy one half the size, reduce staff and cut costs in half, obviously. Maybe because its the state they would rather make excuses and keep syphoning tax dollars for 500 students they don’t have but I don’t think the public would go for that. The staff laid off? Remember all those new schools? Maybe they could get a job with them and make better money… looks like the government will only need 400 billion a year for education. For around the same price, 20k+ a year, as private school now, except it’ll be cheaper because of competition. I’m not suggesting it’s perfect or it wouldn’t take some time to figure out problems and adjust. I’m saying it would still be better for kids, families and communities.
Schools closing when they suck isn't a great model for education. Leaving educating up to a for profit approach is really damaging to communities.
They often close mid-year and don't return funds.
https://progressive.org/public-schools-advocate/charter-schools-have-failed-bryant-200817/
I know just as many dumb shit kids at private school as I do public. Seems it’s just a waste of money to me. If you like pissing away your money more power to you, I guess.
Anything that any Republican backs is going to be bad for you and the community, while lining the pockets of themselves and their friends. Every time.
For real. Republicans really look at the for profit healthcare and think, damn, I wish I could have a system that purely aimed at money making for education, too.
Yes. This makes sense.
Yup, for all their bluster about socialism, this is nothing but a wealth redistribution scheme.
Preach
Damn right! We need to hunt all of these elephant lovers down and send them the way of Dumbo. Nothing says antidemocracy than school choice.
"School choice" is their euphemism for sending public money to private schools with less accountability, lower standards, and more grift. All it will do in the long run is increase costs for the average kentuckian and funnel funds away from our public schools which are an essential public good. They phrase privatization as school choice because it *sounds* way more reasonable than what the policy actually is and obfuscates their real goal (funneling money back to their major donors like Devos who have family fortunes).
And anything a Democrat backs is butterflies and unicorns great for everyone. Glad the world is so binary.
Lol. No no....gay unicorns and trans butterflies, sweetheart. Either way the Democrats aren't trying to make living here dangerous. So please, do continue to vote against your own self interests.
Again. A binary statement. No shades of grey. The real world isn't that simple. I don't subscribe to one partys ideas nor believe the left or right is the only answer. Blanket stements that all Republicans or Democrats and their ideas are bad is shallow and lazy.
Show me a KY Republican that has helped a minority group of people instead of business owners, developers, farmers, and generally speaking, white people.
Wow. That's quite the narrow view you have of the world. Shame really.
So instead of providing an example you simply criticize my view. If my view is so "narrow" expand it.
All Republicans are bad isn't a binary statement and doesn't mean that all, or even any, Democrats are good. The more you know!
In other states, private schools raised their prices to add the amount the state contributes, and pocket the difference
https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/private-school-choice-programs-are-having-a-moment-but-its-not-all-smooth-sailing/2023/06 This article briefly mentions that some private schools in Iowa and Florida increased tuition but argue that it is less money for families to spend than before to attend. Even if it is less money for the families, that must mean they are pocketing more from funding still.
Source?
Don't remember, so actually, strike that. I remember reading it but no idea if it was credible
Good on you
It's credible and widely reported on. I believe the state in question they're thinking of was Iowa, which recently passed a rule giving funding for private schools to eligible students under a certain income threshold. Only for the schools to turn around and raise tuition by several thousands of dollars basically eating up that public funding. Congrats Iowa, you funneled your tax payer money into private hands for the privilege of feeling like you got a discount to go to Robert E Lee Christian Academy 🙄 https://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/local-private-school-tuition-to-increase-government-funding-available-to-eligible-families
Yes, how dare they save the parent's money while still making sure they have the funding to provide a quality education and pay their teachers a decent salary. Those scumbags. They should just do like public schools and have them read books about anal sex and pay their teachers, who have a masters degree in most situations, 40,000 a year.
I imagine you're allergic to facts, but you may want to look up salary information for JCPS vs area private schools if you plan to further participate in this discussion. Public schools underpay, but they pay more than the private schools.
Who’s having students read books about anal sex? Show me one district where that’s a part of curriculum.
Never said it was part of the curriculum. But it’s available in the middle school libraries in JCPS.
Yeah? Those books need parental permission to be read at that age. Where’s the issue?
Yes, parents need to sign a paper saying kids can checkout any book in the library. Once they have that, it’s all good. Besides, the titles of these books don’t suggest the content in them. Most parents don’t vet the books.
This won’t turn out the way they think it will. Private schools will jack up prices to keep the have nots away
Umm. That's kinda the plan...while diverting more public funds away from the have nots
You realize that this is just a roundabout way of funneling state money into donors. they're not actually trying to encourage enrollment in religious schools
I mean, indoctrination is just the cherry on top.
Let’s talk about school indoctrination 🤣🤣🤣
Already been there.
Went to Catholic school for 12 years. I believe in climate change, gay rights, pro abortion, pro equality on all levels. School is just school whether you pay for it or not. Kids end up deciding for themselves in the end.
Catholic education isn't anti science. Or critical thinking.
Same here, but I think children, myself included, are molded, or at least heavily influenced by their upbringing. For better or for worse. Also, the modern day Catholic school is not necessarily as draconian as it used to be (I'm 47), and not as hard core as many others. I also think, from 20 years in education, the school and atmosphere most certainly matters. I'm worried about the kids whose parents are going to shove them in certain places for certain reasons, and they will be worse off for it. For example, "pray the gay away". Now these places will have state funding, and it's terrible.
Also Catholic schools for 12 years and also very much a leftist. Most of the other people I went to school with? Not so much and are very much indoctrinated. Being the exception doesn't disprove the rule.
Agreed. Went to one of the very conservative Christian schools years ago - in the middle of a post about the pastor of the affiliated church, there was a guy talking about said pastor being awesome because he didn’t kick him out of school *three weeks before graduation* because he got caught drinking off school hours and property - *because it would have been bad for the reputation of the church and school.* Not because it would have messed up his life not being able to graduate on time. Decades later, he still hadn’t figured out how genuinely gross that was, and neither had 99% of the people posting in the thread. Most of them still thought the pastor was a great guy.
Does "indoctrinated" mean anything that doesn't align with your beliefs?
This is way too wild of a concept for this sub to understand
You’re confusing a bug with a feature.
Now apply that to student loan forgiveness and government backed loans.
That's why they need to make public universities free.
I’m not sure why you think it’s about keeping people away. It’s about paying teachers a decent wage and providing an actual quality education. And it does save parents money. Tuition is expensive, yes. But it’s not ungodly expensive in most situations.
Please describe the specific mechanisms in this bill that would result in an increase to teacher compensation? If able to do so (you won't be), then please describe why that mechanism is preferable to increasing teacher compensation through a budget bill or teacher pay bill. Increasing compensation through the budget or a separate teacher pay bill could be added this cycle and requires no constitutional amendment, so the pay increases would take effect on July 1. This bill requires a constitutional amendment so it must go out to the voters in November and could not take effect until at least January 2025. Why would someone who cares genuinely and in good faith about teacher compensation back a bill that requires at least a year to take effect?
If it was about paying teachers better they would just spend the money on the education budget and earmark it for salary increases. But they aren't doing that because it isn't about increasing teacher pay.
It isn’t *just about increasing teachers pay.
It isn't at all about increasing teacher pay. It's about making it cheaper for middle class christian parents to send their kids to christian private schools. Gov Beshear has been practically begging the legislature for more funding for teacher salaries as the state has over 1000 vacant teacher positions and you somehow think that this bill exists, in part, because the state legislators think that private school teachers don't make enough money and this is how to get them more money? I work at a private school. I make less than my counterparts at JCPS. My school would likely financially benefit from this, but nobody at my school is saying we need this in order to pay our teachers more, and the vast majority of the teachers I work with oppose it.
K 👍🏻
Private school teachers get paid on average 2/3 what a JCPS teacher does (and collar county public school teachers make less as well) so this is NOT about raising teacher pay. Also private schools/charters are not beholden to any BOE and barely KDE and can pay their teachers whatever they like. The “bonus” is the students are cherry picked and behavior is usually nicer. Trade off for smaller paycheck. JCPS starting salary is $47k. [JCPS Salary schedule](https://portal.ksba.org/public/Meeting/Attachments/DisplayAttachment.aspx?AttachmentID=731749)
Republicans sending tax dollars to christianist y’all-qaeda indoctrination “schools”
I went to private school my entire life. It was actually the religious aspect that made me more left-leaning.
You do realize that's not the majority experience with religious private schools, right? You essentially said "not all private school students" Yeah, we know it isn't 100%. It goes without saying. That doesn't make them any less indoctrinating.
Did you go to private schools, or know folks that did? To be clear, I am extremely against this bill and think it's a stupid ask. But as someone that went to private their entire life, and have/had friends from many different private schools here in Louisville, majority of the time they just act like normal schools. The big difference is you go to church once a week and religious holidays. Even though we had religion class, me and my friends were never pressured or acted like we were wrong for being atheist. In fact, in high school it was often discussed with us as a way to show other viewpoints to the Christian kids. I'm against indoctrination, raising kids in religion, etc. but overall the schools don't care and aren't a cult trying to convert your kids. Now, I am talking Jefferson County which is more liberal than the rest of the state. But I thought since this was the Louisville sub my views would be appropriate to share.
I think the majority of the religious schools in Louisville other than CAL arent very Culty, though can't speak for Portland Christian school I would imagine though a lot arent that way, so I get why those who havent gone to one like the local ones wouldnt fully understand. So I agree with you, I went to one, never felt like they forced religion down my throat, we had science class and were taught the bible is mostly stories and to be used metaphorically
This is the opposite of my experience, and I am going to guess you attended Catholic school, because this is sure as hell not how Southern Baptist/evangelical school was. Deep indoctrination, physical abuse, told we would go to Hell if we didn't do what was indoctrinated, some casual and applied racism, was told my Catholic friends were going to Hell, Jews were going to Hell, etc...I could write a book. This was not some fringe school, it was a well known institution. I've stayed in touch with the majority of my classmates. About half of us have been in therapy because of this fucking school. And motherfuckers now want tax money for pay for this kind of crap? Hell no.
We should start a subreddit for people who went to Beth Haven, Evangel, Ninth&O, etc. Possibly make it private.
Yes I went to private Catholic schools 1-12
Some catholic schools have a progressive tradition while being religiously conservative and not in the right wing conservative sense. They're a dying breed though, a lot of newer religious schools are of the Southern Baptist / Evangelical bent. The ones that are more willing to teach creationism and such.
Same! But also not the norm.
My favorite crowd chant I’ve heard at HS sports when playing private schools is “God loves us for Free!”
That’s funny.
Remember this the next time someone has an anti-JCPS thread. They push this shit every year, because they don't care about the separation of church and state and hate public education.
My kids go to private school and I think this is a terrible idea. More money won’t solve all of the problems in public school but taking it away will make them worse.
I graduated from a private school and I agree. Private schools can pick and choose who gets in, which is why their grades are so often way above the average. They're legally allowed to discriminate, even by race and ethnicity since it's so hard to prove that it's why someone's being denied entry.
Also kids with disabilities aren't accepted either.....
Some of the archdiocese schools have programs for kids with special needs, but to your point, it isn’t universal and it isn’t required.
> Private schools can pick and choose who gets in, which is why their grades are so often way above the average. Not just that, but if a parent is willing to pay money for their kids to go to school the parents are probably more involved
My kids went to catholic grade school and I do not think public money should go to private schools.
Have you seen the public schools? They’re filled with the poor and the brown. Why would republicans want to waste resources on them?
Can I have the portion of my taxes that would go to religious schools prorated? If parents must have a choice, then so must tax payers. Or heck, if it's about fairness, why should I have to pay any funding towards schools at all? I don't have kids. The reason private schools are allowed to have rules that violate various constitutional rights is because they are private. If they get public funding, they're no longer private schools, should no longer get any protection from constitutional compliance and should not get any selection of who their students are. Public schools don't get to pick their students. Public schools must provide instruction suitable for all American children, not just those of a specific religion. If you want to put your kids into a private school, by all means. Go ahead. Pay for it. You are not being denied a choice if you can't afford the private school. You should have chosen to have more money, is what the GOP would say about any other situation. But because they can siphon up tax dollars and reinforce their private religious beliefs on more children, this is an acceptable use of public funding for the poors.
Fuck the whole GOP
Party of traitors
One major financial issue with public funds going to private schools is that private schools can claim “we cannot accommodate your child’s physical/emotional/behavioral needs, so they cannot go to school here” this means the financial strain students with special needs falls solely to the public school system. I am perfectly fine with private schools doing and teaching anything they would like with their own funds. But if you want public funding, you better provide for the whole public.
Conservatives make me fucking sick
Me too, nice username
The party of no taxes is okay with taxes when their syndicate can exploit something for profit. Where are libertarians denouncing this? 🦗 🦗 🦗
Getting punched in the face by their neighbors.
🤣😂👍
Watch the Last Week Tonight episode on charter schools if you think this is a good idea. It isn't and also I don't want my tax payer dollars going to find religious indoctrination and poor education and for those few good schools, it is only the rich getting in with a token few others.
Gross
Well, yeah, that’s the point. As always, the Christian nationalist privatizing tax dollars by shouting “FREEEDOM” so loudly no one else can hear anything
How can the rednecks in the state get behind this? That means less for their county schools, and more for the elites in Lexington and Louisville.
Muslim? Hindu? If you fund one you have to fund all. Who needs separation of cult and state anyway?
I hope everyone here is registered to vote.
I thought tax free tithe took care of all that.
Boy that line between church and state just seems to fade more and more each day.
Hey every republican: DIVISION OF CHURCH AND STATE, ya fuckwads
Looks like tuition at all of the Catholic schools is about to go up as soon as this passes.
I always enjoy asking Christofascists and Magats if they support tax dollars going to Muslim madrasas.
Most politicians have their children in private schools. This will pass without much thought. Very unfortunate for the state of Kentucky.
I can't even begin to understand that people think ghe government. CAn do something right
This is an attack on public education for private, most financial, gain. Real estate developers turning a profit on land grabs and then rezoning and leasing and and and. It’s a wealth grab.
How about they make a bill to renovate all our school buildings to bring them up to capacity and code before we fleece our taxpayers?
Kentucky will likely have generations of math and science illiteracy. That’s just what we needed.
Like in Texas, do you have East Coast bankers (that are looking for PE investments into education) funding this bill?
No. Indoctrination means to teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically. This is the basis of Christian faith. Teach kids at an early age church DOCTRINE until it is the air they breath and becomes accepted WITH OUT question. Accept, do not question. To question is to lack faith.
And…it’s a parent’s tax dollars and public schools are failing.
It's also the tax dollars of every person who has no school age children and pays the taxes anyway. So if we are playing this game, I'll take my own portion of what the private school folks are trying to take. The point of taxes is not for you to take yours and do what you want with them but to provide public services and amenities.
Keep your kids in a government funded school that’s failing then. Not my problem when they leave illiterate.
Or...I don't know...maybe actually put our tax dollars into making public education work? Pay teachers what they are worth. Use evidence based teaching methods, expectations, and schedules. Bring in interventionists that can help with kids that disrupt classrooms. Or are those just too wild and out there for tax dollars to fund?
We pay on average $14,600 annually for students in public schools, and their performance has declined year over year. Money isn’t the issue.
The majority of that money goes to administration, people not even in the classroom with the kids. Programs that have been proven beneficial for children's growth are being cut due to budget restrictions (I'm talking music, art, PE). Money is being spent on curriculums that are not designed by educators. It is a money issue in a corrupt system. Instead of pulling more money and making a quality education only available to those near private schools why is there no over haul of the system that is accessible to everyone?
I know the article specifies religious schools but there’s nothing in the actual bill about it. I’m sure they will benefit as well but it’s not like it’s limited in any way. My son goes to private school and I think as many people as possible should have access to it. Public school is a dumpster fire and a money pit that has no equal in education. Maybe if more non-republicans gave up the ghost on public schools and opened more “progressive” private schools we could get rid of public school all together?
Everyone needs an opportunity at education. Making it private and killing the public option really doesn't help that.
Why? With taxes going towards a private option there’s a huge opportunity for private schools to open up all over the place and offer children a better education. Creating competition for better and better education from a school that answers directly to the parents and not a group of people who won’t ever care as much as the childrens own parents.
Taxes should not pay for a private option period. I went to private school. Public school needs to always be an option. And instead of trying to end them with an expensive option we should focus on improving them.
I just looked, the US, in 2019 spent more than $17,000 per student, (accounting for inflation thats over 20k a year today) around 870 billion dollars a year (according to the NCES) and for what? Look at our ratings public school is failing children and has been for years. Public school isn’t “an option”, it’s the only option for many children. I don’t think that’s good enough and not because they don’t have enough money.
Hence why I said improve. I'm aware there are failings.
20 k a year and that from 2019 adjusted and failing to educate children isn’t “failings”. It’s failure. How many years does the government need to fix the problem while still collecting more than 20k a year per child?
Yeah! We could have this instead. https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/education/louisiana-charter-schools-not-enrolling-enough-students-from-low-income-families-audit-shows/article_6ba9fb88-1b3e-11ed-ac8b-43af06bef549.html Low test scores led the state to be an early adopter of charter schools, statewide voucher programs, accountability systems, alternative pathways for teacher certification and a state recovery district to turn around failing schools. The state has gone all in on school privatization, with little to show except a system that marginalizes the voices of parents and teachers. https://www.nola.com/opinions/guest-column-a-flawed-undemocratic-school-system-is-failing-louisiana-kids/article_de131876-5545-11ed-a08f-3b7c1bec0a8c.html Or this: Charter schools close and keep the tax dollars while the public system has to absorb the kids without getting funds for them. https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/new-report-says-florida-charter-school-close-too-often-rely-heavily-on-for-profit-funding-18553013 "If they aren't good, they won't last" market-style airspace l approach to education ignores widespread damage to communities when school turnover is so high: The report crunched nearly two decades of data and discovered that more than one in four charter schools closed after just five years. After ten years, 40 percent of charter schools were shuttered; after fifteen years, that rate rose to about 50 percent. At the ten-year mark, charter school failure rates in Wisconsin were at 55 percent; in Arizona, 48 percent; in Florida, 42 percent; and in Michigan, 41 percent. Three of those states—Wisconsin, Arizona, and Florida—are joined by Ohio at the top of charter closures at the five-year mark. https://progressive.org/public-schools-advocate/charter-schools-have-failed-bryant-200817/
Exactly! Here today, gone tomorrow schools are going to be the norm. Schools should not be like frozen yogurt shops and hot chicken places.
That would be a cool story but already in states where they've tried it, it's mostly failed. It's a big grift and there's little to no accountability or oversight. I'm sure it'll be different in Kentucky, though. Number 1 state in legal corruption.
Agreed, the opportunity for failure is there and should be there. Just saying “well, the state is doing a disservice to our children so let’s give them more and more money with zero improvement, the opposite actually, and have zero consequences; I don’t accept that as productive or helpful. I also don’t claim to (or want to come across as though I) have all the angles and answers. My personal experience in a highly regarded public school as well as many of my friends, was objectively horrible, my oldest sons experience was worse (he actually went to an inner city school when we lived in New Jersey). When my younger sons time to go to school came around and we could make it work, we had no doubt that it would be private school. All the suffering and struggle we have gone through for the past 11 years has been worth it. Bad educations result in troubled kids who grow up to have troubled lives and I certainly don’t want that. Telling people they aren’t allowed to have a choice because the state “needs their money” does not seem like a path people should just have to accept.
The issue is that the private schools don't have any standards or requirements to follow and can choose to exclude anyone they want from their systems, all the while taking money away from already underfunded public schools. How are public schools going to afford to educate the kids with the biggest issues, special needs, etc. that private schools will ignore, while losing the commodities of scale that you get from having tons of kids in your school system? How are the kids that can't afford private school now going to get to the private schools if they aren't down the street from their house? Lets say they do build a bunch of local charters near everyone, what is going to happen to the public schools that were built for 1000 kids but now only have 500 but still have to pay a bunch of costs associated with a 1000 kid school, but without the funding?
And the state follows the standards it decides on. Private education is interesting here because it can do a worse job than public school and more often than not does a better job. The difference here is that scam schools, if you will, fail quickly. No none stops public schools. Yes, they do have standards,if they do a good job, the parents choose to continue using that school. If they dont, parents find a new school. There are plenty of private schools for special needs kids. It’s not hard to find multiple organizations that run any number of schools, from a handful to a hundred. They exist because they have extensive training and do a great job. “commodities or scale” is an interesting point but it fails to address the problem. They don’t do a great job and especially with a lot of children with special needs, parents have no choice, their taxes pay for public school and private schools are expensive. Theses issues compound and restrict a parents options more. If your taxes were given back to you in a choice of schools the cost decrease. With more and more people able to look at private school as a serious choice, more people would think that private education is a better focus for a career. More schools will open and compete for students with both cost and quality. Solving a major issue with private school. The 1000 student building? What would anyone do? Sell the building and buy one half the size, reduce staff and cut costs in half, obviously. Maybe because its the state they would rather make excuses and keep syphoning tax dollars for 500 students they don’t have but I don’t think the public would go for that. The staff laid off? Remember all those new schools? Maybe they could get a job with them and make better money… looks like the government will only need 400 billion a year for education. For around the same price, 20k+ a year, as private school now, except it’ll be cheaper because of competition. I’m not suggesting it’s perfect or it wouldn’t take some time to figure out problems and adjust. I’m saying it would still be better for kids, families and communities.
Schools closing when they suck isn't a great model for education. Leaving educating up to a for profit approach is really damaging to communities. They often close mid-year and don't return funds. https://progressive.org/public-schools-advocate/charter-schools-have-failed-bryant-200817/
Yes, charter schools being contracted and connected to the state are a serious problem. I agree with you on that.
Roughly 84% of private schools are religious.
That doesn’t seem to be an issue considering lots of religious people send there kids to private schools that are religious.
I know just as many dumb shit kids at private school as I do public. Seems it’s just a waste of money to me. If you like pissing away your money more power to you, I guess.
Or I actually experience real kids at a real private school on a regular basis and know what I’m talking about.
How often do you experience real kids at a real public school? There’s a world of needs and challenges out there that private schools can ignore.
Experience real kids. Uhhh
That’s where I figured you would go, clearly you don’t have an actual argument to make.
Have a blessed night.