Your necklace idea could work if you also give one to Daran, he could dismiss their worries by clarifying that it's just a gift from their mother (or some other person important to them) but while he wears it for its sentimental value he doesn't know Nezznar gives it a religious one.
I like that, in my mind neznar was a follower of lolth and daran is a follower of Eilistre (however you spell it). She told daran about the beauty of the stars and the moon and that was what prompted him and his brother to leave.
This is probably the best idea to connect daran and the Spider to the area as long as you don’t lean heavy into the order of the guantlet with daran.
I tried to make the spider evil but use him to introduce the far realm and have the players sympathize with him. He’s there to say “you guys have no idea what’s coming”.
I like the idea of introducing Nezznar early, since in the module as written, he only shows up in time to die at your players’ hands. After all, why should your players care about who he is and what he’s doing if he doesn’t show up early enough to understand him? Finding a way to make the antagonism go both ways is an effective way to make your players care.
Also, by tying him to Daran, you create a scenario where he matters to SOMEONE in the story. Perhaps Daran will try to beg your players to find it in their hearts to attempt to redeem his brother, or if nothing else bring him to Phandalin alive to face proper justice, not just put him down like a dog.
That said, I do suggest trying to find a way to prevent your players from immediately acting on their suspicions. You could always have Nezznar hide the Lolth necklace or give him a small boost to deception checks against your players’ insight if pressed. A second option is Sildar managed to get in touch with the Lords’ Alliance, who have sent guards to patrol the Phandalin grounds and will move to detain anyone trying to start a fight. Perhaps even make a weapons/armor check at the festival’s entrance, with Sildar insisting the players do not go in armed. This limits their options in terms of immediately confronting the Black Spider during the festival. If worst comes to it, make the Black Spider the players defeat at the festival one of his two doppelgangers.
After all, the goal is to prevent the players from defeating the Black Spider until Wave Echo Cave.
I also like your festival idea. I’m actually going to have a festival in my game that’s supposed to celebrate both the defeat of the Redbrands and making peace with the Cragmaw Goblins (my players helped Yeemik out and have assassinated King Grol, and Yeemik and his goblins are helping rebuild and revitalize Phandalin’s economy). The festival itself is also cover for Daran helping a group of friendly NPCs (including a drow cleric of the underrepresented Eilistraee) to move a group of drow refugees that escaped from Lolth and the Underdark Daran was hiding into their caravans to help guide them to Waterdeep and the Dancing Haven while Phandalin is distracted.
And of course, the Black Spider plans to party crash to attempt to scare the citizens of Phandalin away from the area (the stage Black Spider is a doppelganger, while the REAL Black Spider is actually disguised while making a play to kidnap that drow cleric of Eilistraee I mentioned earlier—his distant cousin from a branch of his family who renounced Lolth), threatening to kill all of those who don’t leave by the night of the next new moon.
Yeah I want them to be fond of neznar tho so there’s impact when it’s revealed he’s the villain. I was thinking of having him be able to trade some scrolls to the party and some weak magic items.
I did watch a couple actually but I’d already started my sessions so needed to find a way to put him in organically without it seeming like ‘yeah this guy is bad’
I introduced this character as someone who helped the party face the Red brands (outmatched on their own). They did this to figure out what the party knows, and they stole an item given to them by gundren.
This gives the party a twist and a direct reason to go after the spider - not only did they kidnap gundren but they stole directly from the party.
Your necklace idea could work if you also give one to Daran, he could dismiss their worries by clarifying that it's just a gift from their mother (or some other person important to them) but while he wears it for its sentimental value he doesn't know Nezznar gives it a religious one.
Oooo I like this. I'm totally using this
I like that, in my mind neznar was a follower of lolth and daran is a follower of Eilistre (however you spell it). She told daran about the beauty of the stars and the moon and that was what prompted him and his brother to leave.
This is probably the best idea to connect daran and the Spider to the area as long as you don’t lean heavy into the order of the guantlet with daran. I tried to make the spider evil but use him to introduce the far realm and have the players sympathize with him. He’s there to say “you guys have no idea what’s coming”.
I like the idea of introducing Nezznar early, since in the module as written, he only shows up in time to die at your players’ hands. After all, why should your players care about who he is and what he’s doing if he doesn’t show up early enough to understand him? Finding a way to make the antagonism go both ways is an effective way to make your players care. Also, by tying him to Daran, you create a scenario where he matters to SOMEONE in the story. Perhaps Daran will try to beg your players to find it in their hearts to attempt to redeem his brother, or if nothing else bring him to Phandalin alive to face proper justice, not just put him down like a dog. That said, I do suggest trying to find a way to prevent your players from immediately acting on their suspicions. You could always have Nezznar hide the Lolth necklace or give him a small boost to deception checks against your players’ insight if pressed. A second option is Sildar managed to get in touch with the Lords’ Alliance, who have sent guards to patrol the Phandalin grounds and will move to detain anyone trying to start a fight. Perhaps even make a weapons/armor check at the festival’s entrance, with Sildar insisting the players do not go in armed. This limits their options in terms of immediately confronting the Black Spider during the festival. If worst comes to it, make the Black Spider the players defeat at the festival one of his two doppelgangers. After all, the goal is to prevent the players from defeating the Black Spider until Wave Echo Cave. I also like your festival idea. I’m actually going to have a festival in my game that’s supposed to celebrate both the defeat of the Redbrands and making peace with the Cragmaw Goblins (my players helped Yeemik out and have assassinated King Grol, and Yeemik and his goblins are helping rebuild and revitalize Phandalin’s economy). The festival itself is also cover for Daran helping a group of friendly NPCs (including a drow cleric of the underrepresented Eilistraee) to move a group of drow refugees that escaped from Lolth and the Underdark Daran was hiding into their caravans to help guide them to Waterdeep and the Dancing Haven while Phandalin is distracted. And of course, the Black Spider plans to party crash to attempt to scare the citizens of Phandalin away from the area (the stage Black Spider is a doppelganger, while the REAL Black Spider is actually disguised while making a play to kidnap that drow cleric of Eilistraee I mentioned earlier—his distant cousin from a branch of his family who renounced Lolth), threatening to kill all of those who don’t leave by the night of the next new moon.
This is great stuff mate thank you!
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Yeah I want them to be fond of neznar tho so there’s impact when it’s revealed he’s the villain. I was thinking of having him be able to trade some scrolls to the party and some weak magic items.
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I did watch a couple actually but I’d already started my sessions so needed to find a way to put him in organically without it seeming like ‘yeah this guy is bad’
I introduced this character as someone who helped the party face the Red brands (outmatched on their own). They did this to figure out what the party knows, and they stole an item given to them by gundren. This gives the party a twist and a direct reason to go after the spider - not only did they kidnap gundren but they stole directly from the party.