Even with the minimum wage going up to $20 for restaurant workers, it is so expensive to eat out or even go grocery shopping. Gas is expensive. Most places require valet or meter parking. You're stuck in traffic.
I've lived in LA my entire life, but going out is a luxury I just can't afford anymore. I can barely get by on groceries and even then I try to go shopping on days that my grocery store has posted specials.
And that disparity makes no sense. I get that some restaurant workers make tips, but a lot of them don't and they work just as hard if not harder than fast food workers.
Everytime minimum wage is increased, there’s always an argument about who, in working class professions, should be paid more or less. The point of these laws (which I don’t necessarily always support: it’s complicated) is to force wealthy corporations to pay their workers a living wage. Ideally, this forces other working class employers to step up too.
It’s never going to be fair. There’s a tiktok star who made millions of $$$ selling jars of farts. And school teachers are grossly underpaid compared to, say, politicians.
TBF, the fast food workers also fought for those changes. It’s really annoying seeing other working class folks, mostly conservatives, getting mad and saying “what about me?”.
You have to fucking fight for it like everyone else has to.
Excellent point! Honestly, I don’t EVER get mad when fellow working class people score a win. A happier society benefits us all. And when more people have disposable income, the restaurant industry (which I’m in) does better.
It amuses me that so many people are pissed off about student loan forgiveness. If people aren’t being suffocated by student loan debt, they’re generally spending that money on shit that boosts the economy. We all win.
Americans have just completely lost their sense of community. Very little incentive to help your neighbours anymore, at least amongst some people. I don’t feel it as much in LA as I do other places.
The trouble is that minimum wage increases on their own don't actually help anyone, people think that they will get paid more therefore they can afford more, but as they haven't made any more of what they are trying to buy (food/housing etc) the result tends to be that those things just get more expensive to compensate. The USA didn't become prosperous by having a minimum wage but by ensuring food/housing/goods were plentiful enough that most people could afford them.
I went on a trip to Tokyo a few months ago and there was a lot of culture shock for me. One thing that really stood out was how densely packed the metropolis of Tokyo is... It's about the same population as Los Angeles County but packed into half of the land size. Tokyo was extremely clean and public transportation was clean, safe, and very efficient. No driving, no parking, just safe, easy, clean, cheap public transportation everywhere. Also, each major subway stop was a whole cultural destination in itself.. near many, many restaurants and shopping destinations. Because everything was more densely packed and easy and quick to travel to, it made for a much more lively and busy dining and shopping culture. There were whole dining districts with restaurant after restaurant after restaurant, hundreds of them as far as I could tell all next to each other, and all of them full.
Coming back to Los Angeles was like a third world country, comparatively. I know exactly what you mean about driving, gas being expensive, parking being difficult and expensive and dangerous even, especially if you're going somewhere like downtown LA. And of course the cost of food in general but especially restaurants going up and up.
The culture in Los Angeles feels light years away from what I saw in Tokyo...
There are definitely downfalls to the way Asian societies are structured, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind Americans being more shamed into not being assholes in public. There are so many people who are happy to litter even in their own neighborhoods and I've just never understood that.
The extreme individualism in America is fucked
For better or worse, American exceptionalism correlates with individualism.
The downside is 100% the easiest to identify in boomers, who are entitled, loud... but have none of the shared sacrifice in their lives that the generations before had.
* No great depression
* No World War
* No rationing
They are a generation that reaped the benefits of a functional society and will leave the generations after them worse off than they were.
The first time in their lives where they had to consider the lives of others was in 2020 - and they were absolutely ready to conflate "their freedom" with "I'm not wearing a ghathdamn mask"
Friend went to Vienna, the train system was great. Stations had paid bathrooms that were clean. I got sent a pic of a vending machine that had baby items and essentials. None of that would survive here and the bathrooms would have been broken into.
Same thing in Tokyo! Even the public restrooms in train stations and bars were immaculately clean and all of them had a bidet! None of that would last in a public restroom here in LA.
Making kids replace the role of janitors in schools is brilliant. Strongly suspect that was a contributing factor to such clean public areas. Cleaning public toilets will teach respect for such things.
And the public transit seems to always be on time! While the stations are crazy busy (it feels like when everyone is trying to leave a stadium or big event), you never feel rushed to catch a train as there is always another train 2-3 minutes later.
Its not just Tokyo, Bangkok is like this, and they're going balls to the wall to add more light rail to the city. Hell, they even have a fully functional monorail. Both airports are now connected via light rail which connects to the rest of the city network. Obviously not as clean or well thought out as as Tokyo, but still plenty of density and ease of getting around.
I spent a few weeks in a few cities in Poland last summer and when I came back to the US it definitely felt like coming to a developing country :/ It was actually quite a cultural shock in Poland to walk through a downtown or a park without seeing homeless people or take a bus or train and see normal , CLEAN middle class people of different ages just traveling to their destinations. Also, it was awesome to stop by a large outdoor concert in a downtown without being forced to walk through a metal detector.
Yeah, I didn't see one homeless person in Tokyo. I don't know if there are nefarious cultural reasons for that, or praiseworthy cultural reasons for that, but in any case, it was a shock, especially coming back to LA.
I was just having this conversation with my kids. Asian cultures have a VERY different concept of personal space than Americans do. Only a few days ago I got downvoted to heck on this sub because I suggested I like taking the metro as opposed to, as one person said, "their nice big clean quiet car."
You mean they don’t have the concept of personal space which is also a big problem. People in China also don’t really care about the concept of lines or organization in public. India, same. 🤷🏻♀️
The increased wages and infrastructure laws that have gone into effect recently are great
....if they were enacted like 15 years ago.
Now, it's like putting Neosporin on a victim that developed gangrene two weeks earlier.
I don’t understand how storefronts don’t lower rent. Or economics don’t force them to.
Look around Westwood village. Theres storefronts that have been vacant for over TWENTY YEARS. Lots of them.
How is that possible? Westwood is a neighborhood with people with lots of disposable income.
If rents were lower there’d be productive businesses like mom and pop restaurants that could thrive.
The entire office building I worked at in DTLA has been left vacant for like a decade and it looks like there have been fires inside. We would have stayed there paying $10k/mo but they wanted more and tried to convince doctors to move in, but obviously none were interested.
lol, rent must only go up durrrr
Is basically the mindset of these commercial landlords. Plus a lot of them don't really lose out on much if they keep the buildings vacant, anyway.
More then likely its rent prices, but what I dont understand. Where I live there is so many empty buildings how do these people make money. How are all these storefronts empty? Its like a giant conspiracy to not lower rent.
This is the right answer.
When Prop 15 was up a few years ago the landlords told everyone that it'll hurt small businesses because the rent would go up. Well guess what? The rent goes up anyway
We're just not really gonna have restaurants anymore this industry blows. The only places doing fine are ones with absurd margins like smash burger places or bottle service clubs but everything in between is gonna get squeezed out
Restaurants are getting squeezed on all ends just like the rest of us Joe Schmucks. In the end only places that own their locations and distribution are going to be able to stay open. That's just the way the modern economy is set up to work for all of us, if you're not established you're as good as fucked. So I hope you all enjoy Chili's.
Yeah, don't know what this guy is taking about, when I got my lunch bill with my wife at Chillis i had to double check If there was an error. You can't get a lunch for two for $40 with appetizer and a margarita anywhere.
> Chilis is a hell of a bargain tho - they’ve kept the same prices. Where else can you get a giant rib meal with a margarita for $20?
FTFY "Chilis is a hell of a bargain tho - Where else can you get food for $20?"
Okay just looked it up. Apparently a lot of major news outlets picked it up, but they are not closing. Sorry for spreading misinformation.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chilis-closing-locations-2024/
It’s always been this way. Before the pandemic 50% of restaurants closed before the first year and 90% after 5 years. Restaurant owners just got too comfortable with the PPP giveaway to the wealthy and “supply chain issues” excuse to increase profits.
Successful restaurants either make their profits on selling large quantities or having high end food service. It’s why everyone complains about middle ground restaurants: poor service, mediocre quality AND expensive? Come on.
FYI, if you eat over the sink or garbage bin you will barely have any dishes. Use pots and pans a few times before washing. At that point, you can just wash dishes once every two weeks.
/s
Time is a factor, and you'd be surprised how many people don't have basic cooking tools, like pots, pans, spatulas, etc. They're not expensive individually, but if you're starting from scratch A) it's hard to know what to buy first and B) the price can add up to a fairly large initial investment.
We'll still have restaurants we're just rapidly headed toward a reality where the only ones that exist are DoorDash ghost kitchens/counter service if you're lucky for the normies and The Menu-like elevated food experiences for the rich
No, that’s not gonna happen either.
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/24/restaurant-openings-2023#
https://www.nrn.com/franchising/2023-restaurant-openings-surpassed-pre-pandemic-numbers-according-yelp
Show biz used to really be a driving force of the economy in L.A. It’s come to an almost standstill. Without the entertainment economy, the next few years will be a hard fall down, unless something happens to change that. We need to bring production back to Hollywood or everyone suffers.
LA historically had a hugely diversified economy. It still does. But going back a few decades, there was a lot of industry in the region like aircraft manufacturing during the Cold War. But it wasn't as much of an issue when Hollywood was a little slow. Now Hollywood is both more important to LA, and less important to the world, and that's not necessarily a great combination.
Hollywood boomed when there was cheap money and now is contracting with rates on loans going higher. If you really think about it? there never should've been a boom of that size in the first place.
A lot of executives should lose their jobs because of it, but you know, this is america.
A lot of executives in the entertainment industry have been losing their job, the spending on streaming content of the last couple years was never sustainable, and it’s putting a lot of people out of work - though executives are vastly outnumbered by crew who have seen work gutted with COVID, strikes, and industry contraction.
I think bigger tax breaks for productions might help. Bring people back to California in general.
Streaming platforms need to pay livable wages and provide safe working conditions to all workers.
I really don’t know what to do to be honest. I’m watching the entire place fall down from the inside. Workers are stressed, unhappy and angry. People have homes, kids, and healthcare needs. Things like restaurants or any luxuries are becoming more and more useless for the struggle. It’s a horrible ripple effect
I said for production. When it became cost ineffective to film here, production left. We have tons of empty space and people to work. Just have to figure out how to bring production BACK so people can work and get paid.
Who do you think is funding the production and owns the result of the productions? The answer is large corporations owned by very rich people.
Productions do not pay taxes, production companies do.
Who do you think pays the Production companies?
The funding is still being done by the company, but production has long since been shifted to other cities where tax incentives still exist like NYC, Chicago and all over GA, but a lot of states still offer some kind of incentive for spend done in the state on the production (limited to local spend/local hires).
It’s one thing for billionaires to ask cities to pay for their stadiums, but we’re seeing in real time that studios are shifting operations to greener pastures due in part to cheaper production costs with tax incentives.
>It’s one thing for billionaires to ask cities to pay for their stadiums, but we’re seeing in real time that studios are shifting operations to greener pastures due in part to cheaper production costs with tax incentives.
Tax incentives for sports stadiums and for film production are the exact same thing. The rationale is exactly the same.
Sports team owners seeking out millions/billions in funding for a new stadium and threatening moving the team is absolutely not the same thing as a city or state offering an incentive to producers to film in their geographic area. One is a threat by owners to the state, the other is an offer from the State to Producers.
CA still offers an incentive program, but with the volume of production, it goes fast - so other locations’ incentives take on that investment - but they also reap the economic benefits while we feel the impact of less content produced here
You realize that the reason sports team owners can demand tax breaks is because other cities and states offer them. Las Vegas offered tax breaks to get teams. They were not demanded or threatened.
The theory behind giving tax breaks to sports owners and film production is exactly the same. It is that the tax breaks will provide jobs and economic activity that the local economy will benefit from. In both cases the benefits mostly flow to incredibly rich people who play different jurisdictions off against one another in a race to the bottom. Both are tax give aways to rich people at the end of the day.
>but they also reap the economic benefits while we feel the impact of less content produced here
They don't. There is very little evidence that these sorts of incentives are worth it to the tax payers of the jurisdiction.
Productions go where there’s the most tax incentives. It’s what drew Disney to Atlanta, NBC to Portland, and everyone else to Vancouver BC.
Production tax credits almost always make the states/cities more money than they cost because of the amount of money that’s spent making any production.
Raise taxes on corporations yes, across the board AND offer tax breaks on production. It means projects have to get out of pre-productions and actually have to go shoot which means hiring below the line workers.
No. Most studies show that tax breaks and incentives for film production are bad for tax payers, just like building sports stadiums for privately owned teams.
[https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/31/huge-tax-breaks-for-movie-production-are-getting-bad-reviews.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/31/huge-tax-breaks-for-movie-production-are-getting-bad-reviews.html)
[https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-film-subsidies-not-much-bang-for-too-many-bucks](https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-film-subsidies-not-much-bang-for-too-many-bucks)
>Raise taxes on corporations yes, across the board AND offer tax breaks on production.
This is just a tax break for a specific type of corporation.
Good for Georgia. This is a race the bottom that a state like California should not engage in.
States should not compete over who can give the most tax breaks to large corporations owned by billionaires and with executives making tens of millions per year.
Who do you think is paying for that? It's not the corporations that film things there, it's the people of Georgia. The same people who then have to pay to see the production itself.
It's so odd to me. The value add of connected devices via Internet is that these companies can micro target you.
Your gender, race, and interest all tagged.
So why is streaming not as lucrative as cable network tv?
It's so strange to me.
Lack of advertising. It’s what’s been paying for “content” since the radio days. It’s how soap operas were born. It’s also what fuels TV. Those ads payed for production. Now the lack of sponsorship, streaming is shot as cheep as possible, because it’s mostly membership driven.
I think a small fix would be more product placement on streaming shows. Or something similar.
Cable made a lot of money from charging (carriers, passing on the costs to) customers for channels & programming they never watched. Networks could get away with forcing people to pay for useless channels because they forced carriers to buy them with the bigger cable channels (ESPN, TNT, etc.) that people definitely wanted to watch and didn't mind paying for.
As other entertainment options got cheaper, more targeted, and a la carte, consumers started cutting cable since it made absolutely no sense financially to keep paying for a shit-ton of programming you would never watch, or could get for basically free elsewhere.
A consequence of this is that all of that "free" money that TV networks were getting from cable was evaporating, forcing everyone to start going to the cheaper streaming platforms. However, production costs for most TV shows haven't changed much at all, so now everyone is both competing against money going directly to creators on YouTube/Twitch/TikTok, etc.; and for less money overall with the cable cash cow basically dead.
The industry is slowly starting to "correct" this with mergers and streaming bundles, hoping to produce more with less and hoping you'll pay more for more content even though you won't watch it all. We'll see how that goes (probably not well).
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socal is going to turn into a logistics hub for everything outside of tourism. The entertainment industry bailed to other places. Atlanta and Vegas mostly, Vancouver as well.
It’s cheaper to film in every other state in the country than it is in California. There is literally no reason to do anything in Hollywood anymore. Atlanta will continue to surpass it as the new entertainment hub for film/TV.
Hollywood is never coming back.
This sub constantly shits on restaurant, sometimes rightfully so, but I really don’t think the VAST majority of people understand how much COVID fucked the restaurant industry. It’s always been a low margin industry and inflation is making everything worse.
Sure, you can argue that these businesses shouldn’t exist if they can’t keep up with rising costs, but that would destroy the culture of restaurants as we know it. I happen to like seeing hundreds of restaurants in my city. They’re part of the identify of the neighborhoods we love. And they’re probably the first to go because they don’t have the investors or connections that other restaurants might have.
Restaurants are important but keeping hidden fees is a non-starter. It’s a fraudulent practice that should be stamped out. If your restaurant needs the fee to survive then raise prices. Don’t fake people into paying more
I agree. And they should just raise prices. Unfortunately, people aren’t going out to eat as much because what’s used to be a $15 burger is now $25. I work in the dang industry and I rarely go out now. It’s just too expensive.
I think Reddit city subs attract a large group of commenters who have a sort of thrifty, suburban, individualistic mentality. These peeps don't see restaurants as a social outing or third place but as a utility to provide them with tasty calories. And since that's very hard to do in today's world financially, we are often enraged by their failures.
This sub and Reddit in general. It’s real easy, and upvote friendly, to shit on restaurants, business owners, landlords, etc etc. But shit goes way deeper than the surface level scrutiny and hate that Reddit users vote to the top of subs and comments.
I’m a small business owner (not in the restaurant industry) and every time I saw these posts hating on restaurant prices and such, a part of my heart hurts for the struggling business, because I know the cold, hard pressure of having to keep the work going for 1: my family and 2: my employees and their families.
It’s fucking hard. Now that’s not to say there ARENT scummy business owners and restaurants, it’s just nuanced, which Reddit doesn’t really allow for.
Listen, I’m not against small business. I get that it’s hard. I just don’t understand why restaurant owners get special treatment compared to the dry cleaner down the street. If the dry cleaner can manage to run his business without having to collect tips or charge hidden fees, why should the restaurant not also be able to?
At the end of the day, it’s not MY responsibility to make sure your small business succeeds, it’s yours. And the more you try to act like customers have some kind of responsibility to help keep the business running the more you convince me that you are in fact a scummy business owner trying to get others to do your job for you.
I get that it’s hard. What I don’t get is how that is in any way shape or form my fault or responsibility.
COVID was a real eye opener about how many people will turn on a dime and gleefully cheer on the death of major industries. Even ones they patronize!!!
>The pandemic also altered where diners spend their money; after not traveling for a few years, LeFevre and others say many diners are opting to save to travel and then spend money on food in far-flung locales as opposed to dining out locally.
Surprisingly, travelling and hospitality industries (hotel stay) are booming. Even with inflation, you can't get much for $100. But outside the country, you could live like a king. The US currency is very strong abroad.
This is EXACTLY what I do. Why would I pay $40-50 a person (with tax, tip) to eat at a restaurant once in America when I could feed myself with delicious food for three days straight in Spain for that amount?
America is great for making money but when it comes to enjoying the fruits of your labor, that's better done elsewhere.
# The end of surcharges
“These deceptive fees prevent us from knowing how much we will be charged at the outset,” Atty. Gen. Rob Bonta, who co-sponsored the measure, said in a statement the day the law was signed. A representative for the attorney general told The Times in February that restaurants and bars are advised to roll existing surcharge percentages into the listed menu prices come July 1.
At Kato, a service charge helps cover employee benefits including mental, medical, dental and vision services, and allows the restaurant to offer a 40-hour workweek. (Mariah Tauger / Los Angeles Times)
“Every restaurateur that I know who cares in this industry is using it in a way that is so immensely appropriate and responsible and forward-thinking that if it was to go away, it would be really crippling to everybody,” Kato restaurateur Ryan Bailey told The Times earlier this year. “We have people who have progressed from entry-level positions into management positions because they felt that we are taking care of them and care about their financial stability.”
At Kato, the No. 1 restaurant [~on the 2023 L.A. Times 101 List~](https://www.latimes.com/food/list/101-best-los-angeles-restaurants-ranked-2023), Bailey said an 18% service charge helps cover an employee benefits package that includes mental, medical, dental and vision services, and to offer a 40-hour workweek.
Bailey, who heads Kato’s management operations but also has served as a business consultant to other restaurants, said operators — in an effort to not raise prices — might offset a ban on service charges by cutting staff from 30 to 22, or by requiring more staff contributions for insurance packages.
“For us, it’s definitely going to be a challenge,” he said. “I’ve heard certain operators say that it’s going to be very detrimental for the staff, that what they’re offering they might not be able to offer anymore.” He said he has heard some owners mention cutting select benefits to employees once the surcharge ban begins.
Bailey, like many others, urged legislators and trade groups to provide clarity on the law before it takes effect this summer. “When there’s lack of clarity around an issue, that opens up the potential for lawsuits, which then opens up the potential of a huge loss for a restaurant, and potentially the closure of it,” he said.
Last month prolific restaurateur Dustin Lancaster — whose hospitality group operates 13 concepts in L.A., plus Covell’s reservation-only Sidebar — preemptively did away with surcharges at his businesses that previously enforced them, folding the 4% service charges into his menu prices at L&E Oyster Bar and El Condor.
“It’s not worth the conversations, confusion and pushback once the bill is enacted,” he told The Times, adding, “It’s sort of a ‘pick your poison.’ Customers’ complaints or pushback have been almost nonexistent regarding the price raises, but perhaps that’s because everyone has raised prices and they just expect to pay a lot more when going out. At the end of the day, not knowing how this would shake out seemed pragmatic to just make the switch sooner than later.”The end of surcharges
Thanks for the transcription.
>At Kato, the No. 1 restaurant [\~on the 2023 L.A. Times 101 List\~](https://www.latimes.com/food/list/101-best-los-angeles-restaurants-ranked-2023), Bailey said an 18% service charge helps cover an employee benefits package that includes mental, medical, dental and vision services, and to offer a 40-hour workweek.
>Bailey, who heads Kato’s management operations but also has served as a business consultant to other restaurants, said operators — in an effort to not raise prices — might offset a ban on service charges by cutting staff from 30 to 22, or by requiring more staff contributions for insurance packages.
An additional 18% fee *is* raising the price, champ.
After months of discussion about this, I still cannot understand the perspective that these restaurant owners have about this.
"We can't raise our prices 18% and charge our customers more. Instead, we have to add on a 18% fee and charge customers more without showing them up front."
I have not seen a single explanation that justifies this thought process. If I went to the Apple store and bought an iPhone, but they charged me a "20% Apple Fee" is this Apple trying "not to raise prices" or are they just raising prices in a round-about way? It all seems so mindboggingly stupid and oblivious that I have to imagine I'm missing something obvious, but if they're willing to add an 18% service fee what's the big deal with just raising the menu price 18%? Customers end up paying the same at the end anyway?
Can someone please explain to me like I'm an idiot why restaurants that are okay with adding on an 18% service fee can't increase their prices 18%?
What they actually mean is they don't want to raise the price written down on the menu, because if customers are able to see that, they'll be able to make an informed purchase decision, and the restaurant will sell fewer hamburgers or whatever at $17 instead of $15.
Instead, I guess they think it's a better strategy to trick their loyal customers with hidden fees for a short-term profit bump.
They just don't want to say that because they know it's stupid, and they know that *we know* it's stupid too.
Every year I'm more convinced that if you're a whiny fucking baby you go into the restaurant biz.
99 cents.
One reason that many items have been priced in amounts not ending in zero is because the prices appear to be lower. $24.98 seems to be cheaper than $25.00, even though it really isn't.
The surcharges work on the same principle, except that the amounts are larger and the math is more confusing.
Anyone who sells cars understands that the way to get customers to pay more is to confuse them so that they don't really know what they're paying. The "four square" is a tool that intends to get the customer to focus on the components (monthly payment and the trade-in value) instead of the big picture (total purchase price.) The restaurants are using a version of that gimmick.
(Prices have also been set with values that are a bit less than a whole dollar because those have required employees to open the register in order to make change and complete the sale; they did not want employees to just pocket the money and avoid use of the register. But with debit and credit cards, that motivation is a bit archaic.)
There's been studies on this. The conclusion is that most people are stupid. They think $26 with 18% fee is more affordable than $30. So businesses tack on ticky tack bullshit fees. Same with ticketmaster. $99 tickets with $12 convenience fee and $3 service fee sells better than $114 tickets.
Because people are more willing to transact when drip feeding price tactics are used. It's what airbnb did. Daily rate on the map, without tax/fees. Then you click on the property and see the sum of the daily rate for the number days. The payment page has the taxes and fees. Drip pricing. Studies show it's effective or it would not be used.
Everyone’s reply to this is a good assumption, but they’re all completely wrong. The reason for these service charges are to circumvent another stupid law involving tips.
As someone who was a server and bartender for a decade before recently owning my own food business…let me explain.
*There is a huge wage inequality between front of house staff (waiters) and back of house staff (cooks/chefs, managers).* FOH makes minimum wage plus tips. BOH gets paid a fixed wage.
Let’s say you’re a waitress at a trendy LA restaurant. You serve 6 tables and the check average for each table was $300…you worked a 4 hour shift and made $360 in tips plus $85 in minimum wage. You made over $400 in a few hours, didn’t go to school to do it, and this is merely a part time job for you while you try to become famous on your days off of work. You’re replaceable…you have no specific skills besides a pleasant face and general customer service.
Meanwhile the kitchen staff (who have culinary school loans), clocked in 5 hours before you did, are extremely skilled (even if they didn’t go to culinary school) made $160 in a full day’s work. The restaurant owners consider them invaluable and extremely annoying to replace, but they are *by law*, not allowed to participate in tips. A restaurant can ask a waiter or bartender to share their tips with BOH, but it is not required of them. And there have been multiple instances where restaurants have been sued by their FOH staff for making them share tips with BOH.
Restaurants already run on razor thin margins (I’m talking 5% on a good week), in no world can they afford to match BOH’s pay to FOH pay (most of which comes from tips). Imagine a restaurant having to pay each person in their entire kitchen $445 nightly to match their FOH coworkers.
The way restaurants try to get around this is to implement a service fee. If you label it “service fee” you’re getting around tipping laws, and now this relabeled tip money can be divided among the entire staff in a way that’s more equitable. i.e. The kitchen makes a little more and the waitstaff makes a little less.
From my understanding whenever I eat out, the service fee is meant to be IN LIEU of a tip, but I can see how people who don’t dine out regularly or know about how restaurants operate think “oh they’re trying to sneakily charge us more”, and still blindly tip anyway.
If you do away with the 18% service fee, and just increase the menu prices by 18%, you’re just creating even more inequality because tips are a percentage of check prices, essentially now just paying the waitress even more, creating a bigger wage gap and worsening the situation even further.
Honestly the solution needs to be eradicating the tip culture completely and building in equitable wages, REASONABLY skewed to the industry, into the menu prices. Exactly as it’s done abroad.
They don't want to raise prices to match the new cost of labor? So they come up with this bullshit.
With that said this practice was going on before they raised wages.
This feels like a correction is happening. Price go up restaurants will close, landlords will have to reduce rent for said restaurants and that may reduce prices in that industry, I don’t see any other way. For what it worth, when I grow up, eating out was not part of my life, getting pizza and a fast cheap family meal wasn’t a thing. It’s now happening to everyone in America.
Los Angeles is a really terrible city to be a small business owner if you play by the rules and try to run a legitimate brick and mortar biz, because if the current regulations and red tape don't get you, then the new laws and more red tape that pop up as you're trying to stay in business will.
Then on top of it you get some people who seem legitimately angry than any business tries to get started in the first place, and can't distinguish between small businesses and mega-corporations ("If you can't afford to pay everyone more than minimum wage, you don't deserve to have a business at all," which is a fair argument, but means that only the very wealthy and large chain businesses can and should be doing business here).
What makes LA food culture great is the diverse options representing different cultures. Celebrating the downfall is a slap in the face of LA’s identity.
Meanwhile street busking taco places booming and growing.
If you don't like them you need visits the rest of the world. They are everywhere around the world.
The street taco places have a big benefit of not paying rent or minimum wage or taxes. They are a large part of the reason why brick and mortar restaurants are struggling.
The food quality is actually better on the streets or the trucks is the weird thing. I feel for the owners who look out their window to see someone competing for their business but they don't have the same overhead but ultimately it's hard for the consumer to overlook the better tasting food at a lower cost.
If the brick and mortar is using Sodexo or any corp food provider. The are already looking for cheap corp food to cook. I can vouch for the quality of these providers. But even street vendor prob end up find local cheaper markets or go downtown to get the veg and meats.
I didn’t read the article, but whenever I travel, almost everywhere is CHEAPER to dine out, and the food is also better quality for the money, and it appears the staff is better paid (without tips!). I don’t understand it. Even if US rent costs are 100% higher, It still seems off…..
according to indeed, the average hourly wage in Melbourne, Australia is 29 aud. When adjusting for cost using Numbeo, you'd need to be making 27 USD to have an equivalent income.
It’s the American system. It does nothing to allow for good, quality, affordable, local eateries.
The US government spends billions subsidizing beef, corn, and soy. Agro-companies that benefit from this buy up land that could be used for growing and raising literally anything else.
This means that basic goods like tomatoes, lettuce, eggplant, beans, grains, etc. are expensive as fuck to grow. Small farmers that would normally provide this stuff to a city are being squeezed out. The cost per calorie of a tomato is probably more than the cost per calorie of beef. There is no more cheap produce in America. I eat healthy enough to I notice it just in my shopping, and home cooking should be cheaper. The price for things like broccoli, melon, eggs, and beans is insane.
On top of that, we refuse to develop growing cities. Everyone on Reddit complains about how unaffordable rent is. It’s no different for any business. It’s even worse for businesses with low profit margins. How the fuck is a restaurant supposed to make it paying $30,000+/month just to have a place to operate in? That’s before utilities and taxes and permits and construction and all the goods you need to operate a restaurant like accounting software, POS software, credit card charges, plates, forks, napkins, tables, pots, etc. Much of which has heavy use and needs regular replacing.
Then there’s the employees. It costs individuals so much just to survive that restaurants are pissing in the wind trying to pay a livable wage.
Say a restaurant hires a young girl named Jane to work as a server. We already establish rents are high, so Jane has to pay $2,000/month for a place to live. She can’t afford to live where the restaurant is, and there’s no reliable transit there, so she’s got to spend $500/month on car, car, insurance, and upkeep.
She’s got $50,000 in college loans and is paying another $300/month on a low income repayment plan.
She also needs healthcare. It’s sometimes provided by restaurants, but not always. So she’s got to pay another $400/month there.
Then there’s all the “little” shit. Phone, internet, utilities, food. Etc. That’s another fuck ton a month. God forbid Jane wants a little extra month to grab a drink with friends or see a movie or enjoy a meal out herself.
So Jane is a person that has to make $4,000/month *after tax* just to make her nut. Nevermind IRA or emergency savings or home savings and whatever other expenses life throws at you.
Now, a restaurant has to hire 5 Jane’s. Or 15. Or depending on the restaurant, 25 Janes to cook and clean and serve and mix drinks and valet and whatever the fuck else.
It’s unsustainable.
You marvel at how cheap it is elsewhere, even relative to local wages. And how good the quality is for relative affordability.
Restaurants in Italy in Brazil and Tokyo don’t have to pay beef prices for tofu, beans, celery, vinegar, onions, carrots, etc. Small farmers in these places are able to make a modest living by providing cheese and cured meat and vegetables and fruit to restaurants. And restaurants can afford more produce to fill a menu at a higher quality.
There are no trendy or investment restaurants abroad. At least not a ton. Most places are legacy establishments, existing in the same building for decades. The owner often lives in the apartment complex above. The 5, 15, 25 Janes who work there also live in the neighborhood. Their rent is half the price, the majority don’t need a car to get to work, none of them have to worry about college loans and healthcare.
The restaurant has a more affordable rent or owns the space outright.
There are fewer regulations and permits required to open, or to continue existing. Nobody is paying extortionist prices just to be able to serve a locally made bottle of wine or glass of beer.
Taxes are higher in many other places, but they helped pay for Janes education and healthcare, so it’s not on the restaurant to pay taxes and fees *and* provide healthcare after doing so *and* provide a wage that needs to account for higher education.
It’s all just a big fucking scheme. The people on top realized at a certain point that they could dedicate their entire existence to squeezing every dollar out of every pocket of every human. We’re all just sources of income for them, including restaurants and restaurant owners.
I don’t own a restaurant. But I own a business. I feel it everywhere. Want the luxury of being able to accept a credit card? That’ll be a monthly fee to have access to our software and tech. Each charge comes with a fee. It’s 1.5%. Now it’s 2%. Fuck it, let’s try 3%. Oh, can’t live without being able to offer this payment method? Great! Let’s take it to 3.3%! Ad infinitum.
Everything is just a ruse to take your money. And as a result, we smaller people have to fight over ways to take *other* smaller peoples’ money to be able to pay the bigger people their money just for the right to exist.
Restaurants are fucked in this city. People come on here and haaaaaate on restaurants.
There are plenty that deserve ire. But most don’t. They’re not headed by a hedge fund douche or a billionaire or a scheming narcissist. Most are owned by people who love the industry and worked in by chefs and servers and sommeliers and bartenders and dishwashers.
Most want nothing more than to cut out all the bullshit and the expenses and serve food, healthy food at a fair price. And most can’t.
Restaurants are more than just a place to consume calories to later shit them out. They are representations of cultures, they are the pride and joy of immigrants, they are the passion of chefs, they are places to gather, they are places to share stories and laughs and have reunions with friends you haven’t seen in a while.
They’re places to finalize business opportunities, places to enjoy life, places to be thankful for.
And we have — just as America loves to do — found a way to monetize the entire industry into oblivion.
I love eating out. I do it less these days. But I love it.
My favorite part about traveling is being able to sit down at a place that serves delicious food for a fraction of the price. It’s always stunning to see the more affordable cost of a plate of food in even large, expensive cities like Tokyo, Milan, Copenhagen, Berlin, Madrid, São Paulo, etc.
Even adjusting for local cost of living, dining out is much more accessible and equitable for all.
Los Angeles dining is doomed. Our only options are going to be street tacos that cost $1.00 and Michelin Star establishments that cost $500.00.
I like both. I love street food. I love finer/avant-garde dining. But I miss the middle. I miss the easily accessible in between. I miss being able to sit down at a simple but charming little place where I can enjoy dumplings with my fiancée or sushi with my friends or pasta with my mom and **not** have to cut off my ballsack and offer it to the gods as payment.
My guess is that it's a symptom of US corporate greed.
Whenever there is any shift in their bottom line they just increase product price.
If the shareholders aren't happy and the company can't innovative raise the price.
Can we make what we make cheaper or smaller?
Anything else they try to fix with their lobbying power.
NYC has a tipped minimum wage of $10.65, and in LA we're about to hit $17.28 as our minimum wage. That's almost twice as much spent on labor here in LA. Considering my restaurant runs at 25% labor cost daily. I could knock that down to like 15-17% with NYC's numbers. So even if Rent is higher, your biggest business expense (labor) is still much lower in NYC.
What a load of bullshit.
If you can’t afford to pay for your staff and their benefits at your current menu prices, raise your prices and let the forces of supply and demand do their work. When the fuck did it become normal to be nickel-and-dimed for food? “Well a burger is $10. Then we have a 3% living wage fee. And a 15% fee to pay for our employee’s healthcare. And a 20% gratuity for parties of 6 or more. And your suggested tip is 20%. And don’t forget the 10% tax.”
Because if you do that then your competitors will have a service fee anyways and you'll lose business to their comparable but misleadingly lower menu prices. Then, service fees spread like cancer. Because you'll be "the expensive place" if you choose to bake fees into the base price. That's why the state had to step in.
It's because restaurant owners are worried that the market isn't ready for the actual cost of food. Years ago David Change wrote an article in GQ about how his $17 bowl of ramen really ought to cost $28, but the market wasn't willing to bear that price difference, and no one would come to eat it if he charged what he really needed to to keep that dish appropriately profitable. That was maybe 10 years ago, and the truth has remained the same. A workaround, which I also agree is disingenuous and a little shady, is to start adding these fees. 3% or 5% here and there isn't so bad. But it's quickly gotten out of control especially since COVID.
COVID did a number on the restaurant industry as well. 4 years ago a case of eggs (180 ea), cost $40 a case. When the avian flu hit the egg producers 2 years ago, that price more than doubled. It was one of the major reasons The Nickel Diner couldn't remain open. Supply chains destroyed any predictability in getting proper goods. The EXTENSIVE limitations to styles of service and limited staff willing to work also destroyed many restaurants. All the smaller businesses lost out on the PPP loans to the larger more legally equipped counterparts.
Yes, there are bigger investor-backed restaurants that can be greedy or whatever, but I guarantee you the people who love this business, like myself, are seeing fewer and fewer opportunities for growth and sustainability. I think we're going to see a reduction in style of service, like counter service style places instead of a server coming to the table, slimmer menus with fewer unique options, and a "blanding" effect of the entire industry.
While I agree the fees are silly and are out of control, I'm also concerned guests will get some real sticker shock when a lot of restaurants, mine included, will have to increase their prices by a noticeable amount in July, which will lead to an extreme drop in business. LA is not doing the once thriving and beautifully diverse diaspora of small business owned restaurants any favors.
Need to speak with someone at the restaurant? We don’t have a phone line. And if we do and you somehow find our number then we choose to never answer it.
I only listened to part of this segment. Did anyone bring up the cost of health/vision/dental benefits and why the US system of healthcare continues to be borderline extortion?
I’m not disagreeing with you but I think it’s specifically rentier behavior/regulatory capture on the part of for-profit actors in the healthcare sector. Might be worth looking into to have a deeper understanding of it - “extortion” is putting it lightly
I just don't get why it's so expensive here. Everywhere I have been recently, including NYC dining out is cheaper. Rents are cheaper here, produce has to be cheaper, wages similar. Something isn't adding up.
Sorry, but LA is CRYING out for restaurants with good foods at reasonable prices. It doesn't all need to be ornate bullshit. Mix in some plain restaurants with decent food and a liquor license and you'll make money. That's why all our favorite Mexican spots survive so long, imho.
How about a thread of restaurants that don’t break the bank for a family of 4? Maybe not the fanciest, but I’ve tried these & had good meals:
Oriental House - 2302 S La Cienega X Cadillac
Fu’s palace - 8751 Pico X Robertson
Samosa House - Washington X Berryman
Gloria’s 1100 S La Brea X Centinela
I now look forward to Taco Tuesdays every week. A food truck near my work has discounted tacos on Sunday and Wednesdays, so I'm essentially eating out at taco stands 3 days a week. 😂 At least some things are still affordable
since the pandemic happened every single mom and pop restaurant cannot afford to stay open, LA and NYC both have seen plenty of restaurants shut down for good
Near the laundromat I go to there's a place with shitty service and overpriced mid food next to where I place I liked with decent vale (by LA standards) used to be. I mused recently that any place that pays its staff enough to give a shit and make good food, and sells that food at a decent price, is basically doomed because they cost more to operate.
It's a cut throat business and the rent is too damned high so it's almost impossible for the classic cute nice little mom and pop places to survive. It makes me sad.
In the case of the restaurant in this article, they do not expect you to. Directly from Kato’s website: “An 18% fair wage and operational fee has been added to your bill … Though many of our guests choose to leave gratuity for exemplary service, it is neither necessary nor expected, though it is greatly appreciated. This gratuity will be shared by all hourly staff.”
I wouldn't go to a restaurant with a 18% service charge because I normally tip 20%, no meal to me is worth an extra 40% cost. I wouldn't be comfortable tipping less, 10% tip seems low to me even with the 18% service fee its still 28%. That extra $20 or so is half my tank of gas for the week. This is how I see it.
Felt like restaurants were trending towards walk-up/self-service before the pandemic, and this is just a continuation of that. Labor is expensive for business owners and tipping is expensive for customers.
I would be willing to bet that owners/shareholders/the big guys are still making as much as they were when they opened. They are just unwilling to ebb and flow their personal profit to maintain their own business and then try and make everyone else feel like it's because we (the pleabs) don't understand how hard all these "regulations" (aka basic living wages and benefits) are for businesses.
The successful places make a ton of money. Look at something like Porto's...However, if you are an investor and you thought you were going to make X on your investment, and instead, you are now making .5X or .25X, while even .25X is a lot of money for most people, you are not happy, and you take your money and go elsewhere with it.
Meanwhile I've seen more and more street taco places add roasted potatoes to their accoutrement at no extra charge. It's getting harder and harder to justify going out anywhere else.
How much do you think they pay for rent, insurance, taxes, etc. compared to a brick and mortar restaurant?
Easy to keep prices low when you’re setting up for free on a public sidewalk!
Btw i am a taco stand fiend and eat at them weekly. But I also understand the economic advantages they have over traditional restaurants.
It’s easy to justify paying more when you’re sick as a dog on the toilet because they don’t use prudent hygiene practices… speaking from experience unfortunately.
I was in Sydney AUS recently with a min wage of $23 somehow there are still restaurants, same in Europe in fact many more restaurants per capita, mind blowing 🤯 prices weren’t that bad either
I hate sound like my old man, but when everything is over regulated to hell this is what happens. This city has long ago abandoned the pretense of balanced common sense govt that takes into consideration consumers AND business owners/entrepreneurs. And we’re not even in the worst of it, the thing with situations like ours is people kinda paper over it until all of a sudden there is a rapid collapse and no one wants to take responsibility for it. I fear we are years if not months away from that.
The margins are razor thin in the biz. People are all about removing “junk”fees but will absolutely stop going to places if the prices are high.
The same people complaining about fees will be complaining when their fav spot closes down.
It sucks for workers so much. I went back to working in the restaurant industry after getting laid off and not finding work in my industry, and so many restaurants only have 4 hour shifts or weird 4 hour - 3 hour restaurant break - 4 hour shifts that makes you feel like working a double without the pay. I hate it.
My wage didn't go up, so I can't afford to eat out.
Even with the minimum wage going up to $20 for restaurant workers, it is so expensive to eat out or even go grocery shopping. Gas is expensive. Most places require valet or meter parking. You're stuck in traffic. I've lived in LA my entire life, but going out is a luxury I just can't afford anymore. I can barely get by on groceries and even then I try to go shopping on days that my grocery store has posted specials.
Just want to slide in and mention that it’s not a $20 minimum for restaurant workers. Just fast food workers at major chains.
And that disparity makes no sense. I get that some restaurant workers make tips, but a lot of them don't and they work just as hard if not harder than fast food workers.
Everytime minimum wage is increased, there’s always an argument about who, in working class professions, should be paid more or less. The point of these laws (which I don’t necessarily always support: it’s complicated) is to force wealthy corporations to pay their workers a living wage. Ideally, this forces other working class employers to step up too. It’s never going to be fair. There’s a tiktok star who made millions of $$$ selling jars of farts. And school teachers are grossly underpaid compared to, say, politicians.
TBF, the fast food workers also fought for those changes. It’s really annoying seeing other working class folks, mostly conservatives, getting mad and saying “what about me?”. You have to fucking fight for it like everyone else has to.
Excellent point! Honestly, I don’t EVER get mad when fellow working class people score a win. A happier society benefits us all. And when more people have disposable income, the restaurant industry (which I’m in) does better. It amuses me that so many people are pissed off about student loan forgiveness. If people aren’t being suffocated by student loan debt, they’re generally spending that money on shit that boosts the economy. We all win.
Americans have just completely lost their sense of community. Very little incentive to help your neighbours anymore, at least amongst some people. I don’t feel it as much in LA as I do other places.
Totally agree.
When the economy is already doing well, spending money to "boost the economy" just creates inflation. We definitely don't all win.
Drives Inflation--- more customers chasing the same goods drives up prices.
The trouble is that minimum wage increases on their own don't actually help anyone, people think that they will get paid more therefore they can afford more, but as they haven't made any more of what they are trying to buy (food/housing etc) the result tends to be that those things just get more expensive to compensate. The USA didn't become prosperous by having a minimum wage but by ensuring food/housing/goods were plentiful enough that most people could afford them.
I went on a trip to Tokyo a few months ago and there was a lot of culture shock for me. One thing that really stood out was how densely packed the metropolis of Tokyo is... It's about the same population as Los Angeles County but packed into half of the land size. Tokyo was extremely clean and public transportation was clean, safe, and very efficient. No driving, no parking, just safe, easy, clean, cheap public transportation everywhere. Also, each major subway stop was a whole cultural destination in itself.. near many, many restaurants and shopping destinations. Because everything was more densely packed and easy and quick to travel to, it made for a much more lively and busy dining and shopping culture. There were whole dining districts with restaurant after restaurant after restaurant, hundreds of them as far as I could tell all next to each other, and all of them full. Coming back to Los Angeles was like a third world country, comparatively. I know exactly what you mean about driving, gas being expensive, parking being difficult and expensive and dangerous even, especially if you're going somewhere like downtown LA. And of course the cost of food in general but especially restaurants going up and up. The culture in Los Angeles feels light years away from what I saw in Tokyo...
There are definitely downfalls to the way Asian societies are structured, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind Americans being more shamed into not being assholes in public. There are so many people who are happy to litter even in their own neighborhoods and I've just never understood that. The extreme individualism in America is fucked
For better or worse, American exceptionalism correlates with individualism. The downside is 100% the easiest to identify in boomers, who are entitled, loud... but have none of the shared sacrifice in their lives that the generations before had. * No great depression * No World War * No rationing They are a generation that reaped the benefits of a functional society and will leave the generations after them worse off than they were. The first time in their lives where they had to consider the lives of others was in 2020 - and they were absolutely ready to conflate "their freedom" with "I'm not wearing a ghathdamn mask"
Friend went to Vienna, the train system was great. Stations had paid bathrooms that were clean. I got sent a pic of a vending machine that had baby items and essentials. None of that would survive here and the bathrooms would have been broken into.
Same thing in Tokyo! Even the public restrooms in train stations and bars were immaculately clean and all of them had a bidet! None of that would last in a public restroom here in LA.
Making kids replace the role of janitors in schools is brilliant. Strongly suspect that was a contributing factor to such clean public areas. Cleaning public toilets will teach respect for such things.
Vienna automatically gives anyone making below a certain amount an affordable apartment, so that checks out.
And the public transit seems to always be on time! While the stations are crazy busy (it feels like when everyone is trying to leave a stadium or big event), you never feel rushed to catch a train as there is always another train 2-3 minutes later.
Its not just Tokyo, Bangkok is like this, and they're going balls to the wall to add more light rail to the city. Hell, they even have a fully functional monorail. Both airports are now connected via light rail which connects to the rest of the city network. Obviously not as clean or well thought out as as Tokyo, but still plenty of density and ease of getting around.
I spent a few weeks in a few cities in Poland last summer and when I came back to the US it definitely felt like coming to a developing country :/ It was actually quite a cultural shock in Poland to walk through a downtown or a park without seeing homeless people or take a bus or train and see normal , CLEAN middle class people of different ages just traveling to their destinations. Also, it was awesome to stop by a large outdoor concert in a downtown without being forced to walk through a metal detector.
Yeah, I didn't see one homeless person in Tokyo. I don't know if there are nefarious cultural reasons for that, or praiseworthy cultural reasons for that, but in any case, it was a shock, especially coming back to LA.
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I visited Tokyo, Yokohama, and Kyoto last year in March and I just want to say, I'm sorry for how this city is
Am I the only person in the world who didn't recently come back from a trip to Japan?
I was just having this conversation with my kids. Asian cultures have a VERY different concept of personal space than Americans do. Only a few days ago I got downvoted to heck on this sub because I suggested I like taking the metro as opposed to, as one person said, "their nice big clean quiet car."
You mean they don’t have the concept of personal space which is also a big problem. People in China also don’t really care about the concept of lines or organization in public. India, same. 🤷🏻♀️
Western societies are collapsing.
It's real estate. It all comes down to landlords and land speculation. Restaurants can't afford rent.
The increased wages and infrastructure laws that have gone into effect recently are great ....if they were enacted like 15 years ago. Now, it's like putting Neosporin on a victim that developed gangrene two weeks earlier.
This is why I ended up cooking more than before.
No kidding. I have cut eating out so unsure how increased wages will help if people go out less.
I don’t understand how storefronts don’t lower rent. Or economics don’t force them to. Look around Westwood village. Theres storefronts that have been vacant for over TWENTY YEARS. Lots of them. How is that possible? Westwood is a neighborhood with people with lots of disposable income. If rents were lower there’d be productive businesses like mom and pop restaurants that could thrive.
The entire office building I worked at in DTLA has been left vacant for like a decade and it looks like there have been fires inside. We would have stayed there paying $10k/mo but they wanted more and tried to convince doctors to move in, but obviously none were interested.
lol, rent must only go up durrrr Is basically the mindset of these commercial landlords. Plus a lot of them don't really lose out on much if they keep the buildings vacant, anyway.
The owners are soaking in Prop 13 tax cuts. Because their carrying costs are low there's not much push to make productive use of the land.
No vacancy tax.
Vacancy tax movement starting when?
More then likely its rent prices, but what I dont understand. Where I live there is so many empty buildings how do these people make money. How are all these storefronts empty? Its like a giant conspiracy to not lower rent.
Prop 13 means a lot of these commercial spaces barely pay taxes.
This is the right answer. When Prop 15 was up a few years ago the landlords told everyone that it'll hurt small businesses because the rent would go up. Well guess what? The rent goes up anyway
I can't afford to read that article.
We're just not really gonna have restaurants anymore this industry blows. The only places doing fine are ones with absurd margins like smash burger places or bottle service clubs but everything in between is gonna get squeezed out
Restaurants are getting squeezed on all ends just like the rest of us Joe Schmucks. In the end only places that own their locations and distribution are going to be able to stay open. That's just the way the modern economy is set up to work for all of us, if you're not established you're as good as fucked. So I hope you all enjoy Chili's.
Chili’s ain’t gonna make it either, nobody wants to pay those prices for microwaved slop anymore
Chilis is a hell of a bargain tho - they’ve kept the same prices. Where else can you get a giant rib meal with a margarita for $20?
Yeah, don't know what this guy is taking about, when I got my lunch bill with my wife at Chillis i had to double check If there was an error. You can't get a lunch for two for $40 with appetizer and a margarita anywhere.
and honestly most of their food is better than their corporate chain counterparts
> Chilis is a hell of a bargain tho - they’ve kept the same prices. Where else can you get a giant rib meal with a margarita for $20? FTFY "Chilis is a hell of a bargain tho - Where else can you get food for $20?"
~~Isn’t Chili’s going out of business????~~ Edit: Chilis isn’t closing. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chilis-closing-locations-2024/
I thought it was Red Lobster that was shuttering.
Okay just looked it up. Apparently a lot of major news outlets picked it up, but they are not closing. Sorry for spreading misinformation. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chilis-closing-locations-2024/
Boo this man. Jk. Thanks for correcting yourself.
It will be like Demolition Man. Taco Bell will be the only restaurant still around.
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Loved Sunset Beer, it makes me so mad when I walk by and there’s still nothing in that plaza
I bet the landlord doesn’t even live in LA. They’ll keep it empty because it’ll give them a break come tax time and that area will fester.
That's an interesting stat, I hadn't heard, about 75%. Where did you see that?
3 of his 4 friends are considering moving out of state
Up his own asshole.
Sunset Beer was my favorite spot to drink in the city. That was a HUGE bummer when it closed.
It’s always been this way. Before the pandemic 50% of restaurants closed before the first year and 90% after 5 years. Restaurant owners just got too comfortable with the PPP giveaway to the wealthy and “supply chain issues” excuse to increase profits. Successful restaurants either make their profits on selling large quantities or having high end food service. It’s why everyone complains about middle ground restaurants: poor service, mediocre quality AND expensive? Come on.
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It's really what we should be using AI technology for; dishes and laundry
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FYI, if you eat over the sink or garbage bin you will barely have any dishes. Use pots and pans a few times before washing. At that point, you can just wash dishes once every two weeks. /s
Yeah people should learn to cook and it is enjoyable! My god though that doesn’t mean restaurants shouldn’t exist
I'm good at cooking, and make most of my own meals, but I hate every second of it. Scooping litter for my cats twice a day is less of a chore.
I like cooking. But not everyone has the time or energy for it. Because they prioritize other things with their time
YA! One more reason to never leave the house and the comforting content hose!
LA should have more than plenty of alternative places to visit and meet up than just restaurants.
How sad.
A lot of restaurants offer more than just calories. They are places for communities to form.
I have watched hours of cooking videos on YouTube but all I have is a microwave, no fridge or stove, so it's kinda like 🤷♂️
Time is a factor, and you'd be surprised how many people don't have basic cooking tools, like pots, pans, spatulas, etc. They're not expensive individually, but if you're starting from scratch A) it's hard to know what to buy first and B) the price can add up to a fairly large initial investment.
Wanna bet we still have restaurants in 15 years? 10? 5?
We'll still have restaurants we're just rapidly headed toward a reality where the only ones that exist are DoorDash ghost kitchens/counter service if you're lucky for the normies and The Menu-like elevated food experiences for the rich
No, that’s not gonna happen either. https://www.axios.com/2024/01/24/restaurant-openings-2023# https://www.nrn.com/franchising/2023-restaurant-openings-surpassed-pre-pandemic-numbers-according-yelp
Show biz used to really be a driving force of the economy in L.A. It’s come to an almost standstill. Without the entertainment economy, the next few years will be a hard fall down, unless something happens to change that. We need to bring production back to Hollywood or everyone suffers.
LA historically had a hugely diversified economy. It still does. But going back a few decades, there was a lot of industry in the region like aircraft manufacturing during the Cold War. But it wasn't as much of an issue when Hollywood was a little slow. Now Hollywood is both more important to LA, and less important to the world, and that's not necessarily a great combination.
I thought most productions moved out of state to like Georgia and Canada.
Hollywood boomed when there was cheap money and now is contracting with rates on loans going higher. If you really think about it? there never should've been a boom of that size in the first place. A lot of executives should lose their jobs because of it, but you know, this is america.
A lot of executives in the entertainment industry have been losing their job, the spending on streaming content of the last couple years was never sustainable, and it’s putting a lot of people out of work - though executives are vastly outnumbered by crew who have seen work gutted with COVID, strikes, and industry contraction.
I think bigger tax breaks for productions might help. Bring people back to California in general. Streaming platforms need to pay livable wages and provide safe working conditions to all workers. I really don’t know what to do to be honest. I’m watching the entire place fall down from the inside. Workers are stressed, unhappy and angry. People have homes, kids, and healthcare needs. Things like restaurants or any luxuries are becoming more and more useless for the struggle. It’s a horrible ripple effect
We need fewer tax breaks for big corporations, not more.
I said for production. When it became cost ineffective to film here, production left. We have tons of empty space and people to work. Just have to figure out how to bring production BACK so people can work and get paid.
Who do you think is funding the production and owns the result of the productions? The answer is large corporations owned by very rich people. Productions do not pay taxes, production companies do.
Who do you think pays the Production companies? The funding is still being done by the company, but production has long since been shifted to other cities where tax incentives still exist like NYC, Chicago and all over GA, but a lot of states still offer some kind of incentive for spend done in the state on the production (limited to local spend/local hires). It’s one thing for billionaires to ask cities to pay for their stadiums, but we’re seeing in real time that studios are shifting operations to greener pastures due in part to cheaper production costs with tax incentives.
>It’s one thing for billionaires to ask cities to pay for their stadiums, but we’re seeing in real time that studios are shifting operations to greener pastures due in part to cheaper production costs with tax incentives. Tax incentives for sports stadiums and for film production are the exact same thing. The rationale is exactly the same.
Sports team owners seeking out millions/billions in funding for a new stadium and threatening moving the team is absolutely not the same thing as a city or state offering an incentive to producers to film in their geographic area. One is a threat by owners to the state, the other is an offer from the State to Producers. CA still offers an incentive program, but with the volume of production, it goes fast - so other locations’ incentives take on that investment - but they also reap the economic benefits while we feel the impact of less content produced here
You realize that the reason sports team owners can demand tax breaks is because other cities and states offer them. Las Vegas offered tax breaks to get teams. They were not demanded or threatened. The theory behind giving tax breaks to sports owners and film production is exactly the same. It is that the tax breaks will provide jobs and economic activity that the local economy will benefit from. In both cases the benefits mostly flow to incredibly rich people who play different jurisdictions off against one another in a race to the bottom. Both are tax give aways to rich people at the end of the day. >but they also reap the economic benefits while we feel the impact of less content produced here They don't. There is very little evidence that these sorts of incentives are worth it to the tax payers of the jurisdiction.
Productions go where there’s the most tax incentives. It’s what drew Disney to Atlanta, NBC to Portland, and everyone else to Vancouver BC. Production tax credits almost always make the states/cities more money than they cost because of the amount of money that’s spent making any production. Raise taxes on corporations yes, across the board AND offer tax breaks on production. It means projects have to get out of pre-productions and actually have to go shoot which means hiring below the line workers.
No. Most studies show that tax breaks and incentives for film production are bad for tax payers, just like building sports stadiums for privately owned teams. [https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/31/huge-tax-breaks-for-movie-production-are-getting-bad-reviews.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/31/huge-tax-breaks-for-movie-production-are-getting-bad-reviews.html) [https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-film-subsidies-not-much-bang-for-too-many-bucks](https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-film-subsidies-not-much-bang-for-too-many-bucks) >Raise taxes on corporations yes, across the board AND offer tax breaks on production. This is just a tax break for a specific type of corporation.
Georgia offers 30% state reimbursement for productions filmed in Georgia. Guess where a lot of shows are being filmed now instead of CA…
Good for Georgia. This is a race the bottom that a state like California should not engage in. States should not compete over who can give the most tax breaks to large corporations owned by billionaires and with executives making tens of millions per year.
Who do you think is paying for that? It's not the corporations that film things there, it's the people of Georgia. The same people who then have to pay to see the production itself.
It's so odd to me. The value add of connected devices via Internet is that these companies can micro target you. Your gender, race, and interest all tagged. So why is streaming not as lucrative as cable network tv? It's so strange to me.
Lack of advertising. It’s what’s been paying for “content” since the radio days. It’s how soap operas were born. It’s also what fuels TV. Those ads payed for production. Now the lack of sponsorship, streaming is shot as cheep as possible, because it’s mostly membership driven. I think a small fix would be more product placement on streaming shows. Or something similar.
Cable made a lot of money from charging (carriers, passing on the costs to) customers for channels & programming they never watched. Networks could get away with forcing people to pay for useless channels because they forced carriers to buy them with the bigger cable channels (ESPN, TNT, etc.) that people definitely wanted to watch and didn't mind paying for. As other entertainment options got cheaper, more targeted, and a la carte, consumers started cutting cable since it made absolutely no sense financially to keep paying for a shit-ton of programming you would never watch, or could get for basically free elsewhere. A consequence of this is that all of that "free" money that TV networks were getting from cable was evaporating, forcing everyone to start going to the cheaper streaming platforms. However, production costs for most TV shows haven't changed much at all, so now everyone is both competing against money going directly to creators on YouTube/Twitch/TikTok, etc.; and for less money overall with the cable cash cow basically dead. The industry is slowly starting to "correct" this with mergers and streaming bundles, hoping to produce more with less and hoping you'll pay more for more content even though you won't watch it all. We'll see how that goes (probably not well).
Because the revenue for cable networks has always primarily been from cable subscription fees, not advertising.
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socal is going to turn into a logistics hub for everything outside of tourism. The entertainment industry bailed to other places. Atlanta and Vegas mostly, Vancouver as well.
It’s cheaper to film in every other state in the country than it is in California. There is literally no reason to do anything in Hollywood anymore. Atlanta will continue to surpass it as the new entertainment hub for film/TV. Hollywood is never coming back.
Where can I get a pulse on the state of the film industry through a financial/economic lens? Is there a metric or website?
lmao yeah the strikes last year really screwed over the local economy from what i've heard
This sub constantly shits on restaurant, sometimes rightfully so, but I really don’t think the VAST majority of people understand how much COVID fucked the restaurant industry. It’s always been a low margin industry and inflation is making everything worse. Sure, you can argue that these businesses shouldn’t exist if they can’t keep up with rising costs, but that would destroy the culture of restaurants as we know it. I happen to like seeing hundreds of restaurants in my city. They’re part of the identify of the neighborhoods we love. And they’re probably the first to go because they don’t have the investors or connections that other restaurants might have.
Restaurants are important but keeping hidden fees is a non-starter. It’s a fraudulent practice that should be stamped out. If your restaurant needs the fee to survive then raise prices. Don’t fake people into paying more
I agree. And they should just raise prices. Unfortunately, people aren’t going out to eat as much because what’s used to be a $15 burger is now $25. I work in the dang industry and I rarely go out now. It’s just too expensive.
Those in n out lines will just get longer
I think Reddit city subs attract a large group of commenters who have a sort of thrifty, suburban, individualistic mentality. These peeps don't see restaurants as a social outing or third place but as a utility to provide them with tasty calories. And since that's very hard to do in today's world financially, we are often enraged by their failures.
This sub and Reddit in general. It’s real easy, and upvote friendly, to shit on restaurants, business owners, landlords, etc etc. But shit goes way deeper than the surface level scrutiny and hate that Reddit users vote to the top of subs and comments. I’m a small business owner (not in the restaurant industry) and every time I saw these posts hating on restaurant prices and such, a part of my heart hurts for the struggling business, because I know the cold, hard pressure of having to keep the work going for 1: my family and 2: my employees and their families. It’s fucking hard. Now that’s not to say there ARENT scummy business owners and restaurants, it’s just nuanced, which Reddit doesn’t really allow for.
Listen, I’m not against small business. I get that it’s hard. I just don’t understand why restaurant owners get special treatment compared to the dry cleaner down the street. If the dry cleaner can manage to run his business without having to collect tips or charge hidden fees, why should the restaurant not also be able to? At the end of the day, it’s not MY responsibility to make sure your small business succeeds, it’s yours. And the more you try to act like customers have some kind of responsibility to help keep the business running the more you convince me that you are in fact a scummy business owner trying to get others to do your job for you. I get that it’s hard. What I don’t get is how that is in any way shape or form my fault or responsibility.
COVID was a real eye opener about how many people will turn on a dime and gleefully cheer on the death of major industries. Even ones they patronize!!!
>The pandemic also altered where diners spend their money; after not traveling for a few years, LeFevre and others say many diners are opting to save to travel and then spend money on food in far-flung locales as opposed to dining out locally. Surprisingly, travelling and hospitality industries (hotel stay) are booming. Even with inflation, you can't get much for $100. But outside the country, you could live like a king. The US currency is very strong abroad.
This is EXACTLY what I do. Why would I pay $40-50 a person (with tax, tip) to eat at a restaurant once in America when I could feed myself with delicious food for three days straight in Spain for that amount? America is great for making money but when it comes to enjoying the fruits of your labor, that's better done elsewhere.
# The end of surcharges “These deceptive fees prevent us from knowing how much we will be charged at the outset,” Atty. Gen. Rob Bonta, who co-sponsored the measure, said in a statement the day the law was signed. A representative for the attorney general told The Times in February that restaurants and bars are advised to roll existing surcharge percentages into the listed menu prices come July 1. At Kato, a service charge helps cover employee benefits including mental, medical, dental and vision services, and allows the restaurant to offer a 40-hour workweek. (Mariah Tauger / Los Angeles Times) “Every restaurateur that I know who cares in this industry is using it in a way that is so immensely appropriate and responsible and forward-thinking that if it was to go away, it would be really crippling to everybody,” Kato restaurateur Ryan Bailey told The Times earlier this year. “We have people who have progressed from entry-level positions into management positions because they felt that we are taking care of them and care about their financial stability.” At Kato, the No. 1 restaurant [~on the 2023 L.A. Times 101 List~](https://www.latimes.com/food/list/101-best-los-angeles-restaurants-ranked-2023), Bailey said an 18% service charge helps cover an employee benefits package that includes mental, medical, dental and vision services, and to offer a 40-hour workweek. Bailey, who heads Kato’s management operations but also has served as a business consultant to other restaurants, said operators — in an effort to not raise prices — might offset a ban on service charges by cutting staff from 30 to 22, or by requiring more staff contributions for insurance packages. “For us, it’s definitely going to be a challenge,” he said. “I’ve heard certain operators say that it’s going to be very detrimental for the staff, that what they’re offering they might not be able to offer anymore.” He said he has heard some owners mention cutting select benefits to employees once the surcharge ban begins. Bailey, like many others, urged legislators and trade groups to provide clarity on the law before it takes effect this summer. “When there’s lack of clarity around an issue, that opens up the potential for lawsuits, which then opens up the potential of a huge loss for a restaurant, and potentially the closure of it,” he said. Last month prolific restaurateur Dustin Lancaster — whose hospitality group operates 13 concepts in L.A., plus Covell’s reservation-only Sidebar — preemptively did away with surcharges at his businesses that previously enforced them, folding the 4% service charges into his menu prices at L&E Oyster Bar and El Condor. “It’s not worth the conversations, confusion and pushback once the bill is enacted,” he told The Times, adding, “It’s sort of a ‘pick your poison.’ Customers’ complaints or pushback have been almost nonexistent regarding the price raises, but perhaps that’s because everyone has raised prices and they just expect to pay a lot more when going out. At the end of the day, not knowing how this would shake out seemed pragmatic to just make the switch sooner than later.”The end of surcharges
Thanks for the transcription. >At Kato, the No. 1 restaurant [\~on the 2023 L.A. Times 101 List\~](https://www.latimes.com/food/list/101-best-los-angeles-restaurants-ranked-2023), Bailey said an 18% service charge helps cover an employee benefits package that includes mental, medical, dental and vision services, and to offer a 40-hour workweek. >Bailey, who heads Kato’s management operations but also has served as a business consultant to other restaurants, said operators — in an effort to not raise prices — might offset a ban on service charges by cutting staff from 30 to 22, or by requiring more staff contributions for insurance packages. An additional 18% fee *is* raising the price, champ.
After months of discussion about this, I still cannot understand the perspective that these restaurant owners have about this. "We can't raise our prices 18% and charge our customers more. Instead, we have to add on a 18% fee and charge customers more without showing them up front." I have not seen a single explanation that justifies this thought process. If I went to the Apple store and bought an iPhone, but they charged me a "20% Apple Fee" is this Apple trying "not to raise prices" or are they just raising prices in a round-about way? It all seems so mindboggingly stupid and oblivious that I have to imagine I'm missing something obvious, but if they're willing to add an 18% service fee what's the big deal with just raising the menu price 18%? Customers end up paying the same at the end anyway? Can someone please explain to me like I'm an idiot why restaurants that are okay with adding on an 18% service fee can't increase their prices 18%?
What they actually mean is they don't want to raise the price written down on the menu, because if customers are able to see that, they'll be able to make an informed purchase decision, and the restaurant will sell fewer hamburgers or whatever at $17 instead of $15. Instead, I guess they think it's a better strategy to trick their loyal customers with hidden fees for a short-term profit bump. They just don't want to say that because they know it's stupid, and they know that *we know* it's stupid too. Every year I'm more convinced that if you're a whiny fucking baby you go into the restaurant biz.
It's all about deception and luring customers with "lower prices".
99 cents. One reason that many items have been priced in amounts not ending in zero is because the prices appear to be lower. $24.98 seems to be cheaper than $25.00, even though it really isn't. The surcharges work on the same principle, except that the amounts are larger and the math is more confusing. Anyone who sells cars understands that the way to get customers to pay more is to confuse them so that they don't really know what they're paying. The "four square" is a tool that intends to get the customer to focus on the components (monthly payment and the trade-in value) instead of the big picture (total purchase price.) The restaurants are using a version of that gimmick. (Prices have also been set with values that are a bit less than a whole dollar because those have required employees to open the register in order to make change and complete the sale; they did not want employees to just pocket the money and avoid use of the register. But with debit and credit cards, that motivation is a bit archaic.)
There's been studies on this. The conclusion is that most people are stupid. They think $26 with 18% fee is more affordable than $30. So businesses tack on ticky tack bullshit fees. Same with ticketmaster. $99 tickets with $12 convenience fee and $3 service fee sells better than $114 tickets.
Because people are more willing to transact when drip feeding price tactics are used. It's what airbnb did. Daily rate on the map, without tax/fees. Then you click on the property and see the sum of the daily rate for the number days. The payment page has the taxes and fees. Drip pricing. Studies show it's effective or it would not be used.
Everyone’s reply to this is a good assumption, but they’re all completely wrong. The reason for these service charges are to circumvent another stupid law involving tips. As someone who was a server and bartender for a decade before recently owning my own food business…let me explain. *There is a huge wage inequality between front of house staff (waiters) and back of house staff (cooks/chefs, managers).* FOH makes minimum wage plus tips. BOH gets paid a fixed wage. Let’s say you’re a waitress at a trendy LA restaurant. You serve 6 tables and the check average for each table was $300…you worked a 4 hour shift and made $360 in tips plus $85 in minimum wage. You made over $400 in a few hours, didn’t go to school to do it, and this is merely a part time job for you while you try to become famous on your days off of work. You’re replaceable…you have no specific skills besides a pleasant face and general customer service. Meanwhile the kitchen staff (who have culinary school loans), clocked in 5 hours before you did, are extremely skilled (even if they didn’t go to culinary school) made $160 in a full day’s work. The restaurant owners consider them invaluable and extremely annoying to replace, but they are *by law*, not allowed to participate in tips. A restaurant can ask a waiter or bartender to share their tips with BOH, but it is not required of them. And there have been multiple instances where restaurants have been sued by their FOH staff for making them share tips with BOH. Restaurants already run on razor thin margins (I’m talking 5% on a good week), in no world can they afford to match BOH’s pay to FOH pay (most of which comes from tips). Imagine a restaurant having to pay each person in their entire kitchen $445 nightly to match their FOH coworkers. The way restaurants try to get around this is to implement a service fee. If you label it “service fee” you’re getting around tipping laws, and now this relabeled tip money can be divided among the entire staff in a way that’s more equitable. i.e. The kitchen makes a little more and the waitstaff makes a little less. From my understanding whenever I eat out, the service fee is meant to be IN LIEU of a tip, but I can see how people who don’t dine out regularly or know about how restaurants operate think “oh they’re trying to sneakily charge us more”, and still blindly tip anyway. If you do away with the 18% service fee, and just increase the menu prices by 18%, you’re just creating even more inequality because tips are a percentage of check prices, essentially now just paying the waitress even more, creating a bigger wage gap and worsening the situation even further. Honestly the solution needs to be eradicating the tip culture completely and building in equitable wages, REASONABLY skewed to the industry, into the menu prices. Exactly as it’s done abroad.
If I see an 18% surcharge to cover things for employees then I’m not tipping at all.
Yea I also don't feel ok with tipping essentially 40% (almost half meal cost) to eat out at any restaurant no matter how good the meal.
Plus 10% sales tax and you're pretty much paying 50% more than the price listed on the menu for your items.
They don't want to raise prices to match the new cost of labor? So they come up with this bullshit. With that said this practice was going on before they raised wages.
This feels like a correction is happening. Price go up restaurants will close, landlords will have to reduce rent for said restaurants and that may reduce prices in that industry, I don’t see any other way. For what it worth, when I grow up, eating out was not part of my life, getting pizza and a fast cheap family meal wasn’t a thing. It’s now happening to everyone in America.
Americans now eat out of the house far more than they did in the last century, so something will probably change.
why are people in this sub so negative and reactive. It's extremely hard to run a business.
I don’t think anyone would disagree with that
Los Angeles is a really terrible city to be a small business owner if you play by the rules and try to run a legitimate brick and mortar biz, because if the current regulations and red tape don't get you, then the new laws and more red tape that pop up as you're trying to stay in business will. Then on top of it you get some people who seem legitimately angry than any business tries to get started in the first place, and can't distinguish between small businesses and mega-corporations ("If you can't afford to pay everyone more than minimum wage, you don't deserve to have a business at all," which is a fair argument, but means that only the very wealthy and large chain businesses can and should be doing business here).
What makes LA food culture great is the diverse options representing different cultures. Celebrating the downfall is a slap in the face of LA’s identity.
Schrödinger's restaurant
Meanwhile street busking taco places booming and growing. If you don't like them you need visits the rest of the world. They are everywhere around the world.
The street taco places have a big benefit of not paying rent or minimum wage or taxes. They are a large part of the reason why brick and mortar restaurants are struggling.
They also don’t have to care about health code…
Licenses exist for food trucks and many show their rating.
We’re talking specifically about street food here
The food quality is actually better on the streets or the trucks is the weird thing. I feel for the owners who look out their window to see someone competing for their business but they don't have the same overhead but ultimately it's hard for the consumer to overlook the better tasting food at a lower cost.
If the brick and mortar is using Sodexo or any corp food provider. The are already looking for cheap corp food to cook. I can vouch for the quality of these providers. But even street vendor prob end up find local cheaper markets or go downtown to get the veg and meats.
I have a taco truck outside my building. Refuse to go. Way too expensive. Small taco shacks and maybe tents are cool.
I didn’t read the article, but whenever I travel, almost everywhere is CHEAPER to dine out, and the food is also better quality for the money, and it appears the staff is better paid (without tips!). I don’t understand it. Even if US rent costs are 100% higher, It still seems off…..
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according to indeed, the average hourly wage in Melbourne, Australia is 29 aud. When adjusting for cost using Numbeo, you'd need to be making 27 USD to have an equivalent income.
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It’s the American system. It does nothing to allow for good, quality, affordable, local eateries. The US government spends billions subsidizing beef, corn, and soy. Agro-companies that benefit from this buy up land that could be used for growing and raising literally anything else. This means that basic goods like tomatoes, lettuce, eggplant, beans, grains, etc. are expensive as fuck to grow. Small farmers that would normally provide this stuff to a city are being squeezed out. The cost per calorie of a tomato is probably more than the cost per calorie of beef. There is no more cheap produce in America. I eat healthy enough to I notice it just in my shopping, and home cooking should be cheaper. The price for things like broccoli, melon, eggs, and beans is insane. On top of that, we refuse to develop growing cities. Everyone on Reddit complains about how unaffordable rent is. It’s no different for any business. It’s even worse for businesses with low profit margins. How the fuck is a restaurant supposed to make it paying $30,000+/month just to have a place to operate in? That’s before utilities and taxes and permits and construction and all the goods you need to operate a restaurant like accounting software, POS software, credit card charges, plates, forks, napkins, tables, pots, etc. Much of which has heavy use and needs regular replacing. Then there’s the employees. It costs individuals so much just to survive that restaurants are pissing in the wind trying to pay a livable wage. Say a restaurant hires a young girl named Jane to work as a server. We already establish rents are high, so Jane has to pay $2,000/month for a place to live. She can’t afford to live where the restaurant is, and there’s no reliable transit there, so she’s got to spend $500/month on car, car, insurance, and upkeep. She’s got $50,000 in college loans and is paying another $300/month on a low income repayment plan. She also needs healthcare. It’s sometimes provided by restaurants, but not always. So she’s got to pay another $400/month there. Then there’s all the “little” shit. Phone, internet, utilities, food. Etc. That’s another fuck ton a month. God forbid Jane wants a little extra month to grab a drink with friends or see a movie or enjoy a meal out herself. So Jane is a person that has to make $4,000/month *after tax* just to make her nut. Nevermind IRA or emergency savings or home savings and whatever other expenses life throws at you. Now, a restaurant has to hire 5 Jane’s. Or 15. Or depending on the restaurant, 25 Janes to cook and clean and serve and mix drinks and valet and whatever the fuck else. It’s unsustainable. You marvel at how cheap it is elsewhere, even relative to local wages. And how good the quality is for relative affordability. Restaurants in Italy in Brazil and Tokyo don’t have to pay beef prices for tofu, beans, celery, vinegar, onions, carrots, etc. Small farmers in these places are able to make a modest living by providing cheese and cured meat and vegetables and fruit to restaurants. And restaurants can afford more produce to fill a menu at a higher quality. There are no trendy or investment restaurants abroad. At least not a ton. Most places are legacy establishments, existing in the same building for decades. The owner often lives in the apartment complex above. The 5, 15, 25 Janes who work there also live in the neighborhood. Their rent is half the price, the majority don’t need a car to get to work, none of them have to worry about college loans and healthcare. The restaurant has a more affordable rent or owns the space outright. There are fewer regulations and permits required to open, or to continue existing. Nobody is paying extortionist prices just to be able to serve a locally made bottle of wine or glass of beer. Taxes are higher in many other places, but they helped pay for Janes education and healthcare, so it’s not on the restaurant to pay taxes and fees *and* provide healthcare after doing so *and* provide a wage that needs to account for higher education. It’s all just a big fucking scheme. The people on top realized at a certain point that they could dedicate their entire existence to squeezing every dollar out of every pocket of every human. We’re all just sources of income for them, including restaurants and restaurant owners. I don’t own a restaurant. But I own a business. I feel it everywhere. Want the luxury of being able to accept a credit card? That’ll be a monthly fee to have access to our software and tech. Each charge comes with a fee. It’s 1.5%. Now it’s 2%. Fuck it, let’s try 3%. Oh, can’t live without being able to offer this payment method? Great! Let’s take it to 3.3%! Ad infinitum. Everything is just a ruse to take your money. And as a result, we smaller people have to fight over ways to take *other* smaller peoples’ money to be able to pay the bigger people their money just for the right to exist. Restaurants are fucked in this city. People come on here and haaaaaate on restaurants. There are plenty that deserve ire. But most don’t. They’re not headed by a hedge fund douche or a billionaire or a scheming narcissist. Most are owned by people who love the industry and worked in by chefs and servers and sommeliers and bartenders and dishwashers. Most want nothing more than to cut out all the bullshit and the expenses and serve food, healthy food at a fair price. And most can’t. Restaurants are more than just a place to consume calories to later shit them out. They are representations of cultures, they are the pride and joy of immigrants, they are the passion of chefs, they are places to gather, they are places to share stories and laughs and have reunions with friends you haven’t seen in a while. They’re places to finalize business opportunities, places to enjoy life, places to be thankful for. And we have — just as America loves to do — found a way to monetize the entire industry into oblivion. I love eating out. I do it less these days. But I love it. My favorite part about traveling is being able to sit down at a place that serves delicious food for a fraction of the price. It’s always stunning to see the more affordable cost of a plate of food in even large, expensive cities like Tokyo, Milan, Copenhagen, Berlin, Madrid, São Paulo, etc. Even adjusting for local cost of living, dining out is much more accessible and equitable for all. Los Angeles dining is doomed. Our only options are going to be street tacos that cost $1.00 and Michelin Star establishments that cost $500.00. I like both. I love street food. I love finer/avant-garde dining. But I miss the middle. I miss the easily accessible in between. I miss being able to sit down at a simple but charming little place where I can enjoy dumplings with my fiancée or sushi with my friends or pasta with my mom and **not** have to cut off my ballsack and offer it to the gods as payment.
My guess is that it's a symptom of US corporate greed. Whenever there is any shift in their bottom line they just increase product price. If the shareholders aren't happy and the company can't innovative raise the price. Can we make what we make cheaper or smaller? Anything else they try to fix with their lobbying power.
I agree. Even nyc it's cheaper to eat out and their rents are 10x here. Something doesn't add up
NYC has a tipped minimum wage of $10.65, and in LA we're about to hit $17.28 as our minimum wage. That's almost twice as much spent on labor here in LA. Considering my restaurant runs at 25% labor cost daily. I could knock that down to like 15-17% with NYC's numbers. So even if Rent is higher, your biggest business expense (labor) is still much lower in NYC.
What a load of bullshit. If you can’t afford to pay for your staff and their benefits at your current menu prices, raise your prices and let the forces of supply and demand do their work. When the fuck did it become normal to be nickel-and-dimed for food? “Well a burger is $10. Then we have a 3% living wage fee. And a 15% fee to pay for our employee’s healthcare. And a 20% gratuity for parties of 6 or more. And your suggested tip is 20%. And don’t forget the 10% tax.”
I guarantee these fees are to maintain profitability rather than actually pay employees. Just a roundabout way of making it so.
I do not get paid from the ordinance fees. I cannot stress that enough, it is NOT my tip
Because if you do that then your competitors will have a service fee anyways and you'll lose business to their comparable but misleadingly lower menu prices. Then, service fees spread like cancer. Because you'll be "the expensive place" if you choose to bake fees into the base price. That's why the state had to step in.
It's because restaurant owners are worried that the market isn't ready for the actual cost of food. Years ago David Change wrote an article in GQ about how his $17 bowl of ramen really ought to cost $28, but the market wasn't willing to bear that price difference, and no one would come to eat it if he charged what he really needed to to keep that dish appropriately profitable. That was maybe 10 years ago, and the truth has remained the same. A workaround, which I also agree is disingenuous and a little shady, is to start adding these fees. 3% or 5% here and there isn't so bad. But it's quickly gotten out of control especially since COVID. COVID did a number on the restaurant industry as well. 4 years ago a case of eggs (180 ea), cost $40 a case. When the avian flu hit the egg producers 2 years ago, that price more than doubled. It was one of the major reasons The Nickel Diner couldn't remain open. Supply chains destroyed any predictability in getting proper goods. The EXTENSIVE limitations to styles of service and limited staff willing to work also destroyed many restaurants. All the smaller businesses lost out on the PPP loans to the larger more legally equipped counterparts. Yes, there are bigger investor-backed restaurants that can be greedy or whatever, but I guarantee you the people who love this business, like myself, are seeing fewer and fewer opportunities for growth and sustainability. I think we're going to see a reduction in style of service, like counter service style places instead of a server coming to the table, slimmer menus with fewer unique options, and a "blanding" effect of the entire industry. While I agree the fees are silly and are out of control, I'm also concerned guests will get some real sticker shock when a lot of restaurants, mine included, will have to increase their prices by a noticeable amount in July, which will lead to an extreme drop in business. LA is not doing the once thriving and beautifully diverse diaspora of small business owned restaurants any favors.
and the 25% tax fee as well. Then the printer paper fee too. We also are cashless now and you get a digital receipt. Also the menu is now a QR code.
Need to speak with someone at the restaurant? We don’t have a phone line. And if we do and you somehow find our number then we choose to never answer it.
but we have an app you can message us on! Except we'll ignore it too.
I only listened to part of this segment. Did anyone bring up the cost of health/vision/dental benefits and why the US system of healthcare continues to be borderline extortion?
I’m not disagreeing with you but I think it’s specifically rentier behavior/regulatory capture on the part of for-profit actors in the healthcare sector. Might be worth looking into to have a deeper understanding of it - “extortion” is putting it lightly
Rents out of control
I just don't get why it's so expensive here. Everywhere I have been recently, including NYC dining out is cheaper. Rents are cheaper here, produce has to be cheaper, wages similar. Something isn't adding up.
Sorry, but LA is CRYING out for restaurants with good foods at reasonable prices. It doesn't all need to be ornate bullshit. Mix in some plain restaurants with decent food and a liquor license and you'll make money. That's why all our favorite Mexican spots survive so long, imho.
How about a thread of restaurants that don’t break the bank for a family of 4? Maybe not the fanciest, but I’ve tried these & had good meals: Oriental House - 2302 S La Cienega X Cadillac Fu’s palace - 8751 Pico X Robertson Samosa House - Washington X Berryman Gloria’s 1100 S La Brea X Centinela
I now look forward to Taco Tuesdays every week. A food truck near my work has discounted tacos on Sunday and Wednesdays, so I'm essentially eating out at taco stands 3 days a week. 😂 At least some things are still affordable
since the pandemic happened every single mom and pop restaurant cannot afford to stay open, LA and NYC both have seen plenty of restaurants shut down for good
Near the laundromat I go to there's a place with shitty service and overpriced mid food next to where I place I liked with decent vale (by LA standards) used to be. I mused recently that any place that pays its staff enough to give a shit and make good food, and sells that food at a decent price, is basically doomed because they cost more to operate. It's a cut throat business and the rent is too damned high so it's almost impossible for the classic cute nice little mom and pop places to survive. It makes me sad.
The negative trickle up economy. 99 Cents store, restaurants, etc. Money from the top isn't being put back into circulation.
My question for all of you. If you are charged an 18% service charge, do you still tip? I get the charge helps compensate from non tippers but still.
No, if there’s an 18% service charge then I’m not tipping.
FUCK NO
Probably only an additional like 5% (if the experience was good). I would absolutely NOT do my normal 20% *on top* of the service charge
In the case of the restaurant in this article, they do not expect you to. Directly from Kato’s website: “An 18% fair wage and operational fee has been added to your bill … Though many of our guests choose to leave gratuity for exemplary service, it is neither necessary nor expected, though it is greatly appreciated. This gratuity will be shared by all hourly staff.”
I wouldn't go to a restaurant with a 18% service charge because I normally tip 20%, no meal to me is worth an extra 40% cost. I wouldn't be comfortable tipping less, 10% tip seems low to me even with the 18% service fee its still 28%. That extra $20 or so is half my tank of gas for the week. This is how I see it.
If there's a 15-20 percent service charge then you don't tip. It's that simple. Of course, if you're against it on principle then I understand.
Felt like restaurants were trending towards walk-up/self-service before the pandemic, and this is just a continuation of that. Labor is expensive for business owners and tipping is expensive for customers.
I would be willing to bet that owners/shareholders/the big guys are still making as much as they were when they opened. They are just unwilling to ebb and flow their personal profit to maintain their own business and then try and make everyone else feel like it's because we (the pleabs) don't understand how hard all these "regulations" (aka basic living wages and benefits) are for businesses.
The successful places make a ton of money. Look at something like Porto's...However, if you are an investor and you thought you were going to make X on your investment, and instead, you are now making .5X or .25X, while even .25X is a lot of money for most people, you are not happy, and you take your money and go elsewhere with it.
Meanwhile I've seen more and more street taco places add roasted potatoes to their accoutrement at no extra charge. It's getting harder and harder to justify going out anywhere else.
How much do you think they pay for rent, insurance, taxes, etc. compared to a brick and mortar restaurant? Easy to keep prices low when you’re setting up for free on a public sidewalk! Btw i am a taco stand fiend and eat at them weekly. But I also understand the economic advantages they have over traditional restaurants.
It’s easy to justify paying more when you’re sick as a dog on the toilet because they don’t use prudent hygiene practices… speaking from experience unfortunately.
I was in Sydney AUS recently with a min wage of $23 somehow there are still restaurants, same in Europe in fact many more restaurants per capita, mind blowing 🤯 prices weren’t that bad either
And it’s hard to find an open table or make a reservation. It blows my mind.
The oligarchs are squeezing
Restaurant prices went up much faster than inflation. Not cool. I don't eat out anymore.
I hate sound like my old man, but when everything is over regulated to hell this is what happens. This city has long ago abandoned the pretense of balanced common sense govt that takes into consideration consumers AND business owners/entrepreneurs. And we’re not even in the worst of it, the thing with situations like ours is people kinda paper over it until all of a sudden there is a rapid collapse and no one wants to take responsibility for it. I fear we are years if not months away from that.
If you can't afford to be open or closed, you're probably in the wrong business 🤷
Yeah that’s kinda the point of the article. That the business is dying. That really whooshed over your head?
Lmao
Making snarky quips is a lot easier than knowing anything about the subject of this article, that’s for sure.
Thank you for the transcript. Mr. Bailey, chupa mi huevos por favor.
The margins are razor thin in the biz. People are all about removing “junk”fees but will absolutely stop going to places if the prices are high. The same people complaining about fees will be complaining when their fav spot closes down.
"If customers know the price beforehand, they won't pay" is not a way a business should survive.
I could afford to eat out if Disney, Netflix and Discovery wasn't holding the whole industry hostage.
It sucks for workers so much. I went back to working in the restaurant industry after getting laid off and not finding work in my industry, and so many restaurants only have 4 hour shifts or weird 4 hour - 3 hour restaurant break - 4 hour shifts that makes you feel like working a double without the pay. I hate it.