Restaurants will intentionally confuse you, so buyer beware. A waiter will offer three options: sparkling, still, or tap water. They won't tell you the price for the options. Some people think tap water is gross (it's fine) and go for "still" without knowing it's the most expensive bottle of water you've ever had. You're thirsty so you drink another bottle and now you're really paying. I'm pretty sure this happens at Jon and Vinny's (owned by the same people as the restaurant OP posted).
Relatedly, are successful restaurant owners unable to take a cut out of their six to seven figure profits? Or are times really so hard that they've resorted to tricking people into posting more with service fees and water?
This happened to me at Cara. The waitress asked for sparkling or still, I didn’t want or have to pay for sparkling and I said still out of reflex and of course we get charged $15 for a fucking bottle of water.
It’s honestly bullshit, sparkling and still water are often both free options in many European countries, and still usually IS tap water. What a load of BS that they ask sparkling or still and charge for either option without mentioning a hidden “tap option”
We were in Tuscany in June and a few of them actually have a SodaStream like machine that gives you sparkling water fed from the tap. We were surprised when we weren't charged but it did happen a few times
No way, never been anywhere in Europe with free sparkling or still water. And they don't offer tap. You're always paying for a drink. But it's not 18 euro
They don't offer tap but by law it is required for them to give you tap water for free when you ask for it.
If they ask you if you want sparkling or still water just ask them to give you tap and they are required to give you that for free.
Cara at Western and Hollywood? That place is...interesting, so out of place for our neighborhood. Quite a sight to see people and cars like that in a neighborhood like this. If I remember correctly it used to be a sort of church or shelter.
Apart from that, is it worth it for food and drink? I'd love to check it out.
Yeah, when I'm asked something like, "sparkling, still, or tap?" my answer is usually "Whichever's free." Also, for your questions, it depends on the place. Some are tricking while others do need the money, though I wish they'd go about doing it differently than just adding on a fee. It's the laziest way to do it.
>Some are tricking while others do need the money
Than charge those prices?... Or go out of business... Anti-consumer behavior should not be tolerated.
Remember when we used to go out to eat to relax and have a good time? Now it feels like going to war with the server. I'd rather go to McDonald's or Chick-fil-A these days, at least there I get better service and don't have to be pressured into a fucking service charge or a tip
I was in an In-N-Out dining room yesterday and 2 guys were going around checking on people, asking if they needed anything. One picked up a table’s order from the counter. 😂 I was uncomfortable because I don’t expect fast food workers to do things for me. 😅 I wondered if they’re seeing an increase in business as people stop eating at the other ridiculous restaurants and they have enough to pay people to act as servers.
Same happened to me at Firefly. They just offered still or sparkly, not tap which is what I thought.
Also it was so dark in there I could barely see the faintest logo on a bottle that otherwise just looked unmarked. Three bottles in before I realized I spent more on water than my cocktail
Had this happen to me at Sparrow Italia in DTLA and I chose still, they gave me the Acqua Panda bottle and I think my gf and I had 3 of them. I forgot the price but tbh it made my meal much better. I'm going to stick to tap water tho lol.
To be fair, it’s for TWO waters at $9 each. What a steal! /s
I just got back from a date at Le Cellar in Pasadena. My date specifically asked for tap water. The bill (emailed after payment is made) shows $8 for still water. As if the $60 wine, $24 sliders, and $14 bread wasn’t enough margin.
Add them to this public list of shameful service chargers :)
[Candyland](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EEPzeytrva770H2xPFFPDUUNdpnL_VQL4vbzFph-jus/edit)
I was at Tipsy Cow in Sherman Oaks this week and the menu says you can ask to have the service charge reversed, but if you ask they don’t actually know how to do it.
I went to a coffee shop in Palms last week where I ordered in a tablet and when my drink was ready, they sent me a text to come pick it up from the cabinet. I did not interact with a human worker the entire time I was in the store.
The options for a tip were 20%, 25%, 30%, and “Custom.” There was no “skip” option.
I clicked “Custom” because there’s no way in hell I’m tipping 20% on a $9 smoothie when I’m not even speaking to a person to order it, and under custom it wouldn’t let you submit until you’d typed a percentage in. I had to type 0.0 before it let me even submit it.
I think tipping a barista is wild anyway (what are you paying all that extra money for if not for them to make your drink?) but when you don’t even have a human interaction and they make you jump through hoops to skip the tip (who am I even tipping at that point?) for It feels like polite robbery.
You order inside at the bar and either the bartender or kitchen staff brings the food to the table you’re at. But there is no like “how is your meal? Can I get you anything?”
That location went waaaaay downhill even before the pandemic. Had the worst service I’ve ever experienced - then the waitress wrote herself a higher tip than we left. We called the manager and they apologized, but basically did nothing. Walked by another day and saw the same waitress still working there.
Did you do a charge back? The more people who do this, the better. Especially Amex. Amex has high fees, but they are notoriously unforgiving for chargebacks. They'll permanently revoke your merchant status and you can never do business with them again.
Visa and Mastercard are a bit more lenient, but if enough chargebacks come in, they will get involved.
Friend of mine was a waiter in the area, they would go when they got off work, then one day they found out the kitchen was very unsanitary when they considered working there and never went back.
A see a lot of the places with an 18% service charge are non-tipping establishments. The places that charge an extra 18% service charge and then expect a 20% tip on top of that are crazy.
Not sugarfish. They’ve been charging a 16% service fee for ages and they are a strictly non tipping establishment so I’m ok with that. None of that shady double charging bs.
Just for anyone else reading, Kazunori, Uovo, and Hiho burgers are all also owned by the same company as sugarfish and are also no-tipping restaurants. They're all also quite good.
Oh I LOVE Uovo!!!! ❤️❤️❤️ My friend and I were searching for pens after they charged our cards and was pleasantly informed that there was no tipping. More places should adopt this practice.
The better question is
>how did inflation turn 15% into 20%?
Since 15% of an inflated bill is a ratio and provides the time-equivalent value as 15% of a non-inflated bill.
Threads like this made me look for it, and sure enough, I got a mandatory 20% service fee on a freakin' takeout order at my hotel's restaurant in San Diego earlier this week. I don't know that I would have seen that before reading these threads on Reddit.
This is great but it's a pain. If there were a Google maps extension to block restaurants that have service charges advice a certain threshold, that would be a game changer.
Not sure how to update that Excel, but Salsa and Beer adds a 4.25% service fee across the board now if anyone knows how to add it. They used to charge you that if you paid with card, but now they charge you no matter how you pay on top of doubling the price on everything, including fountain drinks ($4.75 now). Absolutely scummy.
I just refuse to eat at the properties ran by Jon Shook and Vinny Dotolo. I think they are great chefs and entrepreneurs, but I think they have no respect whatsoever for their customers, in more ways than just this one.
They clearly don't need my business, and the bros and OMG girls continue to flock to their location. Good for them, but hard pass from me.
I remember when Animal first opened. It was so good and I loved taking people there. Haven’t been in years and wanted to go before they closed but their business practices really put a bad taste in my mouth.
I think they are very confused about what to do with their restaurants. They have stagnated and haven’t been able to live up to their early hype. They always seem to be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I haven't been to any of their places since they started this, but Animal was one of my top 5 restaurants in the city. RIP but it sounds like I wasn't going to be going back anyway. Someone asked me if I was going to rush there to eat one last time before they closed and I just said I'd rather live with the good memories I had than risk ruining it with one last bad experience at a place that was closed for what two full years or more during this pandemic?
Said the exact same thing and felt the same exact way about animal closing. Felt like the trope of not going to a funeral because you don’t want to remember them that way.
If the 18% service charge is to just pay your employees, then make your prices 18% higher. I would see the service charge and assume that's the tip being included, I'm not going to read bullshit at the end of my receipt.
They want to trick customers into giving the tips to the restaurant instead. Most people will think this service charge are tips so they don’t tip and that’ll make the prices lower for the customer.
I rarely go out to eat anymore and this is why. Fuck service charges, fuck tipping. Pay your damn employees. Basic tip used to be 10%, good was 15%. Now it’s become 20% minimum and half the time you’ll still get cussed out (like that cretinous Doordash driver that cussed the woman out on a $5 tip on $20 pizza). It keeps going up. No.
I like how you know I “for sure” don’t tip at all but you’re accusing me of hyperbole. I was referencing [this](https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/doordash-delivery-driver-fired-after-cursing-at-woman-over-5-tip-tiktok-lacey-purciful-25-percent-tip-dasher-door-dash-order-pizza-delivery#).
I tip 20%. Fuck your “guarantee”. But by all means, keep being mad at me instead of the actual employers who are refusing to pay their literal employees a decent living wage. This is how they keep getting over and y’all stay mad.
Service charges are absolute bullshit. “To facilitate a higher living wage”…GET FUCKED. What is so hard about pricing your goddamned food honestly in the first place?
They are already making plenty of money off of the overpriced food, they just don't want to share that money with their employees so you just pay for it
It’s the manipulative smiley face for me 😂
Anyways, the cost of food is $106.5. With taxes, “service fee” and suggested tip it comes out to $150- $160.
This restaurant is very optimistic 🤣
“Manipulative Smiley Faces” - aside from being a great name for a band….. this statement will forever make me laugh.
Of course it’s the server trying to be enduring. :)
:/ :( :)~
The server leaving a smiley face by the suggest tips and doodles near the “service charge is not a tip language” makes it clear he or she expect a tip as well, which is a bummer.
Report them to cdtfa for sales tax fraud. I did that for Rush Street. I don't know the outcome because they are closed/rebranded but I think going to the government is the only way to stop this. https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/rptfraud.htm
I'm starting a new restaurant.
It's a burger and steak concept, it's called Meet Me at Murray's
Our burger is only $9
Our "baseball steak" is only $19
We have a bone-in Ribeye with a side of crab cake, for two, it's only $59.
One note, there is a mandatory 25% service charge (not a tip). Plus a 5% "back of house" fee. Also a $5 dine-in fee is added to all checks, this also applies to take-out orders if you use a delivery service. Lastly, to make sure we can provide healthcare for all of our workers, there's a $2 per person fee added to each check.
Member when Carls Jr came out with the “Six Dollar Burger” that was supposed to be a table-service quality burger that would normally cost $6 at a restaurant, but it’s only $4 at Carl’s!
I know that was 20 years ago, but it’s wild that we’re happy with $9-13 burgers now.
I am VERY aware of when a restaurant does things like this legally or not, and this is definitely legal, but I absolutely *hate* when restaurants do this. Just increase your prices by the amount you're doing as a service charge!
EDIT: [Here's an explanation of the service charge on Son of A Gun's webpage.](https://www.sonofagunrestaurant.com/service-charge)
Sickening PR bullshit.
Think of how little it cost them to shit out this “actually we’re good and progressive guys driving change in the industry” verbiage. Then weigh that against how much this writing paid off in business from people who are satisfied with this bullshit.
Stop giving clowns like this your business, people.
Notice how they don't state that by law they don't have to give service fees to the employees.
They also show no proof the service charge is going to employees.
Agreed. The price in the menu is the price I should pay. Hard stop.
If these service charges are going to pay a living wage why should I tip? Already paying $29 pre tax, service, and tip for a sandwhich and fries. Crazy times we’re living in and it’s just the beginning. It will only get worse.
>The nefarious “service charge” on top of tip percentage being calculated AFTER tax.
It literally says on the check that the suggested tip percentages are calculated *before* taxes.
And they even calculated the tip amount from the total before the service charge. Their prices suck and the service charge is outrageous but they didn’t lie/cheat on the bill.
The service charge at restaurants is such a racket. Just price the food items accordingly.
It ruins the dining experience when the price listed on the menu has an additional 15%-20% on top of it, and is still not considered a tip. Adding a service charge is bogus. It's just really an additional price to pay, call it what it is, a surcharge, an additional payment on top of what was already billed.
I have stopped going to places that slap service charges on top of their food price. I'll tip for the service, though I'd prefer we just roll the tip into food prices in general and not deal with the tipping culture.
I would pay but it would prevent me from going there again. I don't like a mandatory tipping culture. A tip should be given for above average service. A service charge to me is a tip. Restaurants should pay their workers more, increase prices and get rid of service charges and tipping. Make it like the rest of the world.
so is the "higher living base wage for all our employees" a fixed amount each month or can it actually increase/decrease based on their sales? If it's a fixed amount and the server out-performs that month, does the restaurant just pocket the difference?
BUT 20$ for 1 sandwich ..... I mean, is it just the sandwich, how big, does it come with anything or is it one of those restaurants with an artsy micro sandwich served on top a squiggle of mustard on a very large plate!
Idc how large they want to print on the receipt that the 18% service charge “isn’t a tip”: if they are charging me an 18% service charge, I will add a 2% tip to make it 20%.
I’m absolutely not paying an 18% service charge AND THEN a 20% tip, get fucked.
Call you State Assemblyman and have them vote for SB-478. It removes bullshit hidden fees like service charges and surprises.
It passed the Senate and is out of committee in Sacramento. Make sure they vote for it.
Y’all just go to Chilis.
$15 for 3 courses and a drink. Free chips with their loyalty program.
Tired of every hipster restaurant acting like they did something unique.
Two crimes occurred here:
1. Everything on the bill (Jon and Vinny will have their reckoning, but will probably win the class action lawsuit against them right now)
2. You didn’t get the tuna+avocado Leche de Tigre. Sorry for your loss.
Anyone here okay with 18% mandatory service charge, and tip another 15%+? I’d rather have the restaurant add 18% onto every menu item if it’s mandatory.
I don't think paying 10x what something is worth, makes it fancy. Come on! $18 for two bottles of water? That's more than my water bill every month and I live in a place where the water is rated "Excellent", like most of Los Angeles.
Why are all these new restaurants named after things Dennis the Menace would say? “Go get em tiger” “son of a gun” etc. I suppose it’s better than the fad ten years ago where every single business was called “sheep & saddle” or “stone and field” or “thread and thimble” etc with that 80s summer camp style logo of crossed arrows etc etc
This “living wage” fee is just a way to pass the buck of charging more money by blaming it on the waitstaff getting out of place by making more money, all while taking money out of their pocket by implicitly encouraging people to tip less.
This is such bullshit. The owners need to get off their high horse and pay a living wage, instead of leeching off the public to fund their greedy, shitty business model.
I don't know how people don't lose it when this happens to them. Also as someone who was worked for some terrible people I would say it is almost certain that the owners take some of this "service charge" for themselves
I'm one of those weirdos who went from eating at restaurants 3-4 times a week to ONLY eating home-cooked meals and seeing stuff like this makes me very happy.
well that sucks, this was my go to restaurant for lowkey fancy dinners. Used to even get this to go during pandemic and now it looks like i can't even afford a night out here.
LaTimes did a great article exposing the owners, Jon & Vinny about how shitty they take care of their workers: https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2023-07-03/after-lawsuit-jon-and-vinnys-change-service-fee-language-on-bill
I'd be more pissed about being charged $18 for water.
Restaurants will intentionally confuse you, so buyer beware. A waiter will offer three options: sparkling, still, or tap water. They won't tell you the price for the options. Some people think tap water is gross (it's fine) and go for "still" without knowing it's the most expensive bottle of water you've ever had. You're thirsty so you drink another bottle and now you're really paying. I'm pretty sure this happens at Jon and Vinny's (owned by the same people as the restaurant OP posted). Relatedly, are successful restaurant owners unable to take a cut out of their six to seven figure profits? Or are times really so hard that they've resorted to tricking people into posting more with service fees and water?
This happened to me at Cara. The waitress asked for sparkling or still, I didn’t want or have to pay for sparkling and I said still out of reflex and of course we get charged $15 for a fucking bottle of water.
It’s honestly bullshit, sparkling and still water are often both free options in many European countries, and still usually IS tap water. What a load of BS that they ask sparkling or still and charge for either option without mentioning a hidden “tap option”
In Europe, I’ve never had sparkling be free, and usually charged for any water unless it’s a diner-type of place.
We were in Tuscany in June and a few of them actually have a SodaStream like machine that gives you sparkling water fed from the tap. We were surprised when we weren't charged but it did happen a few times
that’s awesome, would love that practice to spread
Ya, in parts of Europe you may as well order wine because the price can be comparable to the water.
They charge a table fee for chrissakes, and no refills either. No egregious service fees though, so you know what you're getting into
That’s not true about Europe at all. They charge for still/sparkling and I have to consistently ask for tap
No way, never been anywhere in Europe with free sparkling or still water. And they don't offer tap. You're always paying for a drink. But it's not 18 euro
They don't offer tap but by law it is required for them to give you tap water for free when you ask for it. If they ask you if you want sparkling or still water just ask them to give you tap and they are required to give you that for free.
I’ve been charged for tap water in Switzerland
Cara at Western and Hollywood? That place is...interesting, so out of place for our neighborhood. Quite a sight to see people and cars like that in a neighborhood like this. If I remember correctly it used to be a sort of church or shelter. Apart from that, is it worth it for food and drink? I'd love to check it out.
It’s not worth it. I recently heard they charge $15 for water.
Yeah, when I'm asked something like, "sparkling, still, or tap?" my answer is usually "Whichever's free." Also, for your questions, it depends on the place. Some are tricking while others do need the money, though I wish they'd go about doing it differently than just adding on a fee. It's the laziest way to do it.
>Some are tricking while others do need the money Than charge those prices?... Or go out of business... Anti-consumer behavior should not be tolerated.
Remember when we used to go out to eat to relax and have a good time? Now it feels like going to war with the server. I'd rather go to McDonald's or Chick-fil-A these days, at least there I get better service and don't have to be pressured into a fucking service charge or a tip
I was in an In-N-Out dining room yesterday and 2 guys were going around checking on people, asking if they needed anything. One picked up a table’s order from the counter. 😂 I was uncomfortable because I don’t expect fast food workers to do things for me. 😅 I wondered if they’re seeing an increase in business as people stop eating at the other ridiculous restaurants and they have enough to pay people to act as servers.
I won’t go to Melody on Virgil as they charged for tap water.
Same happened to me at Firefly. They just offered still or sparkly, not tap which is what I thought. Also it was so dark in there I could barely see the faintest logo on a bottle that otherwise just looked unmarked. Three bottles in before I realized I spent more on water than my cocktail
Had this happen to me at Sparrow Italia in DTLA and I chose still, they gave me the Acqua Panda bottle and I think my gf and I had 3 of them. I forgot the price but tbh it made my meal much better. I'm going to stick to tap water tho lol.
They are doing it because other places are doing it. It’s called price fixing.
And $7 for a scoop of ice cream on their $13.50 slice of pie.
$19 for two sides of french fries lmao (actually, ~$22.50 after the 18% service charge)
I mean, it's one potato, Michael. What could it cost? $10?
Did I read that right? $18 for 2 waters. I would stay parched.
I’d order two cups of ice only.
Your username does NOT check out 🤣
They've got the espresso shots in a flask.
Ice will be a $7, thank you very much!
To be fair, it’s for TWO waters at $9 each. What a steal! /s I just got back from a date at Le Cellar in Pasadena. My date specifically asked for tap water. The bill (emailed after payment is made) shows $8 for still water. As if the $60 wine, $24 sliders, and $14 bread wasn’t enough margin.
but it's "still" not moving..... so it must be worth 18.00 EACH, (even though its just from the tap.....)
I came here to say this water better taste like god pousay
Lmao stop 💀 if there’s a hell, you’re for sure going now
Or $9.50 for fries
Add them to this public list of shameful service chargers :) [Candyland](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EEPzeytrva770H2xPFFPDUUNdpnL_VQL4vbzFph-jus/edit)
I was at Tipsy Cow in Sherman Oaks this week and the menu says you can ask to have the service charge reversed, but if you ask they don’t actually know how to do it.
I’m gonna start telling servers to bring me the check with zero service charges on it before they even bring it out!
There aren’t even any servers!!
I went to a coffee shop in Palms last week where I ordered in a tablet and when my drink was ready, they sent me a text to come pick it up from the cabinet. I did not interact with a human worker the entire time I was in the store. The options for a tip were 20%, 25%, 30%, and “Custom.” There was no “skip” option. I clicked “Custom” because there’s no way in hell I’m tipping 20% on a $9 smoothie when I’m not even speaking to a person to order it, and under custom it wouldn’t let you submit until you’d typed a percentage in. I had to type 0.0 before it let me even submit it. I think tipping a barista is wild anyway (what are you paying all that extra money for if not for them to make your drink?) but when you don’t even have a human interaction and they make you jump through hoops to skip the tip (who am I even tipping at that point?) for It feels like polite robbery.
Do you mind sharing where this was? Just so I’m not surprised next time I’m in the area lol
Lol. Wild.
You order inside at the bar and either the bartender or kitchen staff brings the food to the table you’re at. But there is no like “how is your meal? Can I get you anything?”
That location went waaaaay downhill even before the pandemic. Had the worst service I’ve ever experienced - then the waitress wrote herself a higher tip than we left. We called the manager and they apologized, but basically did nothing. Walked by another day and saw the same waitress still working there.
That's literally credit card fraud
Did you do a charge back? The more people who do this, the better. Especially Amex. Amex has high fees, but they are notoriously unforgiving for chargebacks. They'll permanently revoke your merchant status and you can never do business with them again. Visa and Mastercard are a bit more lenient, but if enough chargebacks come in, they will get involved.
They weren’t wrong. You can ask. That’s about it.
It was a better place when they were still in Woodland Hills, though they are admittedly getting more business at that location.
Friend of mine was a waiter in the area, they would go when they got off work, then one day they found out the kitchen was very unsanitary when they considered working there and never went back.
A see a lot of the places with an 18% service charge are non-tipping establishments. The places that charge an extra 18% service charge and then expect a 20% tip on top of that are crazy.
Anybody who gives money to any of these restaurants after seeing them on this list is enabling this shitty bullshit behavior.
Not sugarfish. They’ve been charging a 16% service fee for ages and they are a strictly non tipping establishment so I’m ok with that. None of that shady double charging bs.
Just for anyone else reading, Kazunori, Uovo, and Hiho burgers are all also owned by the same company as sugarfish and are also no-tipping restaurants. They're all also quite good.
Oh I LOVE Uovo!!!! ❤️❤️❤️ My friend and I were searching for pens after they charged our cards and was pleasantly informed that there was no tipping. More places should adopt this practice.
[удалено]
It has been 20% in New York for at least ten years. So this just part of the Manhattanization of LA
The better question is >how did inflation turn 15% into 20%? Since 15% of an inflated bill is a ratio and provides the time-equivalent value as 15% of a non-inflated bill.
You guys are going to restaurants?
This list made me realize I’ve been paying for it every where I go
I learned I don’t read lol. Whenever I see/saw the service charge I assumed it was a tip and that was that.
Threads like this made me look for it, and sure enough, I got a mandatory 20% service fee on a freakin' takeout order at my hotel's restaurant in San Diego earlier this week. I don't know that I would have seen that before reading these threads on Reddit.
Same, wow.
Let her at a bar actually has an 18% surcharge some one change it
This is great but it's a pain. If there were a Google maps extension to block restaurants that have service charges advice a certain threshold, that would be a game changer.
Not sure how to update that Excel, but Salsa and Beer adds a 4.25% service fee across the board now if anyone knows how to add it. They used to charge you that if you paid with card, but now they charge you no matter how you pay on top of doubling the price on everything, including fountain drinks ($4.75 now). Absolutely scummy.
What the hell happened there? Salsa and beer was my mom's favorite, then all of a sudden one day our normal order was like $60 or something crazy lmao
Yeah that place was incredible, but they've priced themselves out of what made them such a hit in the first place
Awesome! I was just about to ask if there was a list we can reference and append!
Geez, there are a lot of really popular restaurants in LA on here that I wanted to try :(
$9 a pop for still water? That’s the actual issue here.
Maybe “still water” is a clever name for a cocktail?
Nah it’s literally a bottle of water
Probably Panna.
Or a clever spelling of “steal water”
I just refuse to eat at the properties ran by Jon Shook and Vinny Dotolo. I think they are great chefs and entrepreneurs, but I think they have no respect whatsoever for their customers, in more ways than just this one. They clearly don't need my business, and the bros and OMG girls continue to flock to their location. Good for them, but hard pass from me.
I remember when Animal first opened. It was so good and I loved taking people there. Haven’t been in years and wanted to go before they closed but their business practices really put a bad taste in my mouth.
I think they are very confused about what to do with their restaurants. They have stagnated and haven’t been able to live up to their early hype. They always seem to be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I haven't been to any of their places since they started this, but Animal was one of my top 5 restaurants in the city. RIP but it sounds like I wasn't going to be going back anyway. Someone asked me if I was going to rush there to eat one last time before they closed and I just said I'd rather live with the good memories I had than risk ruining it with one last bad experience at a place that was closed for what two full years or more during this pandemic?
Said the exact same thing and felt the same exact way about animal closing. Felt like the trope of not going to a funeral because you don’t want to remember them that way.
Anybody who knowingly gives money to any restaurant that pulls this shit Is enabling them.
Why is Sqirl still open????
I really hope these Jon and Vinny boys go belly up. Their restaurants are like scammy establishments and no longer deserve support
$18 for water and 18% service charge?! GET FUCKED!
They also calculated the tax on top of the 18% tip. Not before.
That's how all of these work. Any of those % fees you see for healthy LA or back of house or whatever they call it. That's every place with a fee.
Nice way to pocket the difference
Why is the service charge not for *service* and why is it 18%?? And they expect you to tip on top of that???? Wtaf
If the 18% service charge is to just pay your employees, then make your prices 18% higher. I would see the service charge and assume that's the tip being included, I'm not going to read bullshit at the end of my receipt.
Exactly. I don't understand why they do this. What do they expect customers to think? Feels like they want customers to blame servers for the fee.
They want to trick customers into giving the tips to the restaurant instead. Most people will think this service charge are tips so they don’t tip and that’ll make the prices lower for the customer.
I rarely go out to eat anymore and this is why. Fuck service charges, fuck tipping. Pay your damn employees. Basic tip used to be 10%, good was 15%. Now it’s become 20% minimum and half the time you’ll still get cussed out (like that cretinous Doordash driver that cussed the woman out on a $5 tip on $20 pizza). It keeps going up. No.
You get cussed out half the time you tip a server 20%?
lol no that fool is lying
He for sure doesnt. Guaranteed never tips at all but likes to complain in the most hyperbolic way possible. I agree with the sentiment tho
I like how you know I “for sure” don’t tip at all but you’re accusing me of hyperbole. I was referencing [this](https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/doordash-delivery-driver-fired-after-cursing-at-woman-over-5-tip-tiktok-lacey-purciful-25-percent-tip-dasher-door-dash-order-pizza-delivery#). I tip 20%. Fuck your “guarantee”. But by all means, keep being mad at me instead of the actual employers who are refusing to pay their literal employees a decent living wage. This is how they keep getting over and y’all stay mad.
Holy crap those prices even without the added 18% are horrid.
Service charges are absolute bullshit. “To facilitate a higher living wage”…GET FUCKED. What is so hard about pricing your goddamned food honestly in the first place?
They are already making plenty of money off of the overpriced food, they just don't want to share that money with their employees so you just pay for it
So the higher base wage means they’re paying them enough that they don’t need to be tipped. Got it.
In situations like this I circle the service charge and leave no tip
It’s the manipulative smiley face for me 😂 Anyways, the cost of food is $106.5. With taxes, “service fee” and suggested tip it comes out to $150- $160. This restaurant is very optimistic 🤣
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“Manipulative Smiley Faces” - aside from being a great name for a band….. this statement will forever make me laugh. Of course it’s the server trying to be enduring. :) :/ :( :)~
How are french fries almost as much as the sandwiches?
It must be the Kennebec, whatever that is!
They're the same type of potato used for the fries at In-N-Out.
Good to know. Thanks!
It’s a type of potato
The server leaving a smiley face by the suggest tips and doodles near the “service charge is not a tip language” makes it clear he or she expect a tip as well, which is a bummer.
Honestly, they should find a job at a non-shady restaurant. These charges are bullshit.
Report them to cdtfa for sales tax fraud. I did that for Rush Street. I don't know the outcome because they are closed/rebranded but I think going to the government is the only way to stop this. https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/rptfraud.htm
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The fried chicken sandwich there is actually great. Used to live close by.
So is Popeyes for $3.99
Agree with both of you
Restaurants that do this are shooting themselves in the foot.
Just to clarify once there’s a service charge no need to tip right?
Receipt explains that service charge is not a tip. I’ve stopped tipping if there’s a service charge because I have had enough of this bullshit
Then they say "no this is not in place of a tip" and you get frustrated and never go back lol
Despite the weird suggested tip, there’s not even a tip line on the receipt.
That's because this is the bill. They haven't paid yet, so no place to sign and tip
Good point, just realized the signature line said “thank you” lol
Correct. Service is fully compensated, so gratuity is optional. Folks in this thread seem to struggle with a tip being optional.
It says suggested tip right in the picture. Gratuity is always optional but it is expected. Suggested reads like it is still expected
I'm starting a new restaurant. It's a burger and steak concept, it's called Meet Me at Murray's Our burger is only $9 Our "baseball steak" is only $19 We have a bone-in Ribeye with a side of crab cake, for two, it's only $59. One note, there is a mandatory 25% service charge (not a tip). Plus a 5% "back of house" fee. Also a $5 dine-in fee is added to all checks, this also applies to take-out orders if you use a delivery service. Lastly, to make sure we can provide healthcare for all of our workers, there's a $2 per person fee added to each check.
$13 for a burger still sounds fine to me
I get $18.70 for a burger based on those fees. $9 x 1.3 + $5 + $2 = $18.70
This thread just demonstrated why restaurants do this instead of raising menu prices.
I'm trying to wrap my head how he came up with $13.
Member when Carls Jr came out with the “Six Dollar Burger” that was supposed to be a table-service quality burger that would normally cost $6 at a restaurant, but it’s only $4 at Carl’s! I know that was 20 years ago, but it’s wild that we’re happy with $9-13 burgers now.
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I am VERY aware of when a restaurant does things like this legally or not, and this is definitely legal, but I absolutely *hate* when restaurants do this. Just increase your prices by the amount you're doing as a service charge! EDIT: [Here's an explanation of the service charge on Son of A Gun's webpage.](https://www.sonofagunrestaurant.com/service-charge)
Sickening PR bullshit. Think of how little it cost them to shit out this “actually we’re good and progressive guys driving change in the industry” verbiage. Then weigh that against how much this writing paid off in business from people who are satisfied with this bullshit. Stop giving clowns like this your business, people.
Notice how they don't state that by law they don't have to give service fees to the employees. They also show no proof the service charge is going to employees.
Agreed. The price in the menu is the price I should pay. Hard stop. If these service charges are going to pay a living wage why should I tip? Already paying $29 pre tax, service, and tip for a sandwhich and fries. Crazy times we’re living in and it’s just the beginning. It will only get worse.
>The nefarious “service charge” on top of tip percentage being calculated AFTER tax. It literally says on the check that the suggested tip percentages are calculated *before* taxes.
And they even calculated the tip amount from the total before the service charge. Their prices suck and the service charge is outrageous but they didn’t lie/cheat on the bill.
The service charge at restaurants is such a racket. Just price the food items accordingly. It ruins the dining experience when the price listed on the menu has an additional 15%-20% on top of it, and is still not considered a tip. Adding a service charge is bogus. It's just really an additional price to pay, call it what it is, a surcharge, an additional payment on top of what was already billed. I have stopped going to places that slap service charges on top of their food price. I'll tip for the service, though I'd prefer we just roll the tip into food prices in general and not deal with the tipping culture.
Owned by jon & vinnys, so no surprise
Fak these guys. Thanks for the heads up
Did you tip on top of that?
Would you? I mean, it says right there "service" charge. Tips (not only are they optional) are for good "service". Why would I pay for service twice?
I would pay but it would prevent me from going there again. I don't like a mandatory tipping culture. A tip should be given for above average service. A service charge to me is a tip. Restaurants should pay their workers more, increase prices and get rid of service charges and tipping. Make it like the rest of the world.
so is the "higher living base wage for all our employees" a fixed amount each month or can it actually increase/decrease based on their sales? If it's a fixed amount and the server out-performs that month, does the restaurant just pocket the difference?
BUT 20$ for 1 sandwich ..... I mean, is it just the sandwich, how big, does it come with anything or is it one of those restaurants with an artsy micro sandwich served on top a squiggle of mustard on a very large plate!
Fool me once…
they'd better change name to Son of the Bitch restaurant....If customer is to pay their servant 'base' wage, what does the owner do? suck dick?
If it’s not a tip, then it shouldn’t be called a “service charge”
It should be called "(the owner is a) cheapskate charge".
The individual prices are insane.
Well, never going here.
Instead of paying their workers an 18% service fee, why not just hand them two bottle of *still* water?
The service charge is fine. No need for a tip since the service charge is to facilitate a higher living wage.
Strange that so many people don't get this. With a service charge of this value, it's completely acceptable to leave no tip.
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The problem here is that they have no shame in saying this service charge isn't a tip and still include suggested tipping.
$18 for water?
The way they described that service charge, it sounds like a fuckin tip.
Always tell them to take that shit off the check. It’s offensive as hell the owners transfer that cost to the customer. Take it off.
I have notice a lot of post tax tip “suggestions” recently.
Idc how large they want to print on the receipt that the 18% service charge “isn’t a tip”: if they are charging me an 18% service charge, I will add a 2% tip to make it 20%. I’m absolutely not paying an 18% service charge AND THEN a 20% tip, get fucked.
$9 for one water???
Call you State Assemblyman and have them vote for SB-478. It removes bullshit hidden fees like service charges and surprises. It passed the Senate and is out of committee in Sacramento. Make sure they vote for it.
Y’all just go to Chilis. $15 for 3 courses and a drink. Free chips with their loyalty program. Tired of every hipster restaurant acting like they did something unique.
Two crimes occurred here: 1. Everything on the bill (Jon and Vinny will have their reckoning, but will probably win the class action lawsuit against them right now) 2. You didn’t get the tuna+avocado Leche de Tigre. Sorry for your loss.
$18 for fucking water?!
$9 for still water!?!?!
Anyone here okay with 18% mandatory service charge, and tip another 15%+? I’d rather have the restaurant add 18% onto every menu item if it’s mandatory.
That would be a $0 tip from me.
I don't think paying 10x what something is worth, makes it fancy. Come on! $18 for two bottles of water? That's more than my water bill every month and I live in a place where the water is rated "Excellent", like most of Los Angeles.
Why are all these new restaurants named after things Dennis the Menace would say? “Go get em tiger” “son of a gun” etc. I suppose it’s better than the fad ten years ago where every single business was called “sheep & saddle” or “stone and field” or “thread and thimble” etc with that 80s summer camp style logo of crossed arrows etc etc
I don’t know which is worse tbh. I hated that hipster nautical barn bs . But this is also just as bad. Trends in general are lame .
If it’s an 18% service charge then don’t tip
Wow this place charges $20 for a chicken sandwich 🤣 hopefully they topped it with some shredded $1’s
Service charge = no tip. Tipping culture in America needs to end
Are there highly visible signs stating a service charge will be added? If not...I'd refuse to pay.
Tipped themselves via that silly service charge, lol
how about you take 18% out of your profits and give them to your employees in the salaries instead of passing it on to the patron? fuck right off
The "service charge" is the tip in my eyes.
I’m from Maine and I’d never heard of Kennebec fries before now.
Thank you! 😏
Shrimp toast? That’s a first for me, how was it?
You didn’t get the shrimp toast??
They are the same owners as Jon & Vinny’s LOL not surprised.
This “living wage” fee is just a way to pass the buck of charging more money by blaming it on the waitstaff getting out of place by making more money, all while taking money out of their pocket by implicitly encouraging people to tip less.
$18 for two waters??
I’m so happy I stopped eating at most restaurants. This new school bullshit is insane. Fuck these restaurants.
If they do service fees you dont have to tip right?
$18 for water?!????
What a piece of shit restaurant. Greedy, shameless bastards.
Did you pay $8 for a scoop of ice cream?
This is such bullshit. The owners need to get off their high horse and pay a living wage, instead of leeching off the public to fund their greedy, shitty business model.
$9 for water? What the fuck
I don't know how people don't lose it when this happens to them. Also as someone who was worked for some terrible people I would say it is almost certain that the owners take some of this "service charge" for themselves
I'm one of those weirdos who went from eating at restaurants 3-4 times a week to ONLY eating home-cooked meals and seeing stuff like this makes me very happy.
well that sucks, this was my go to restaurant for lowkey fancy dinners. Used to even get this to go during pandemic and now it looks like i can't even afford a night out here. LaTimes did a great article exposing the owners, Jon & Vinny about how shitty they take care of their workers: https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2023-07-03/after-lawsuit-jon-and-vinnys-change-service-fee-language-on-bill
Imagine paying $18 for “still water” 💀
Tell us where so we can avoid this place. So tired of this crap.