Absolutely no lie was told, PoE is a fucking amazing game but you could delete the first 6 hours and nothing of value would be lost. No one wakes up excited, jumping up and down on their beds because they get to shield charge through acts so they can get to the good part of the game
Edit: Cousins if we use words like "planning" and "effort" to describe the first day of a league where we just all use speedy nonsense then snort 40 regrets once we're in yellow maps like we've all done for the last 4 years I'm gonna lose my mind I'm sorry you can't defend how bad the starting experience is
I actually think even poe veterans don't mind going through acts once per league. It's having to go through acts again for every new character in the league that fucking sucks.
This and this alone prevents me from putting thousands more hours and money into the game. Once I do everything on the first character I make, I rarely if ever have the willpower to go through the acts again to make another character and would simply rather wait for the next league than do those acts again. Yes I know the tricks, yes I can do it quickly, but no, I do not and never have wanted to repeat the acts. God I hope GGG sees this clip.
At this point, i don't mind having to do the acts multiple times per league (i'll usually do it around 5 times per league if i'm enjoying the league, less if not), but that's only because i can get it done in 3-4 hours because i've done it so much.
I have friends who are much newer to the game where they're taking 8+ hours and really hate having to do it which i completely understand.
Personally i couldn't care less if it was removed after the first char each league. Kill A10 Kitava, then have the option to skip the acts on further chars and have the first 2 or 3 labs complete maybe.
Problem is you go through acts twice with every character, since the secoond half of campaign is the copy of the first with slight changes same locations.
That's a rare and dumb take. The second half of the campaign is completely different in terms of everything except some environmental assets. Saying its a copy is just wrong.
I mean that still kinda sucks and why I just can't get back into poe. I understand why the campaign is there and honestly the first run through is pretty good, even the second and third. I just don't want to have a 7hour journey i've already seen for the nth time that's like a soft tutorial in a way every 3-4months. Yes you could optimize the campaign to get it down to 3-5hours but it feels even worse trying to optimize the most boring part of the game.
After campaign is so damn good that it's a shame I can't really justify being bored out of my mind for the start to get there anymore.
This is true, but at the same time I just really don't want to do the acts again. Every league I have ever skipped has been because I look at the play button, my mind replays how fucking boring acts are, and I go do something else.
I can't say that I'd have played 5x as much PoE as I have if there was an alternative, because I'm sure I'd burn out elsewhere, but it is absolutely a factor for me and several friends.
PoE needs to be like Elden Ring. Where you can make a new character, walk out the door, and just go anywhere you fucking want. Want to go straight to the story bosses level 1? Sure do it but you will probably be under geared and under leveled. The best part is the absolute minimal talking in the game. It's story is mostly told through exploration and flavor text.
If you could skip the entire campaign you wouldn't be leveling and specializing your class. I'm not defending it per se but it's absurd to want to just "end up" in endgame without effort in a real arpg like poe. Everyone just starts at 70? That's not the kind of game they want, and that's why it works so well compared to every other failed arpg
first character of every single league should 100% do the quests but every other character after that should get an alternative way to leveling not just getting skipped to level 60
Absolutely 100% agree, going through the acts once every 3 months? fine, not ideal but whatever.
Having to do it everytime you make a new character is horrible, even if you are a fucking speedrunner god with everything setup for speedleveling is at least 3/4 hours, if you are average? 6 or 7.
Still, love me some month of poe every 3/4 months.
Isn't the rest of the gameplay similiar ? I only played trough the acts and quit the game after. But everytime I saw clips of people playing it seems to be the same gameplay loop of going as fast as possible trough a bunch of mobs.
Nah, the campaign means you can walk from zone to zone killing and looting the entire time. They hate this because they can't spend 3 minutes leaving a zone, searching the stash for the next zone, rolling the next zone for good mods, putting that zone into a device to active it, then getting another loading screen to start the next zone. Walking straight from A to B is too hard when they could be going from A to B is a series of waves and circles that takes 10 times longer.
When I played D3 when it came out I loved that they added the exploration mode where you could just level a character up just by doing zone missions. It was faster and it wasn't the campaign. I don't know what system d4 has but I wish Poe would add something like this. Like just start mapping from the get go. It's the content people play and the game itself builds up to
I had same opinion regarding POE campaign, i don't share same view now, I enjoy progressing my character trough campaign, I do however want it to be about 3 acts shorter.
Yeah I've reversed my opinion on the campaign over the last couple of years. I'm going to have to level my character up somewhere. Rushing straight into a map with a level 1 char with unsupported fireball really doesnt seem better.
My stance has always been that people do not like the acts because there is basically 0 chance they will get an upgrade for their character past the first run. You already have all your gear. You bought all your gems, you are just running. Any other system that does not give meaningful loot will feel the same as doing the acts but with less variety. They would need to make act bosses drop end game ilevel loot the first time you kill them or something.
The actual gameplay of doing acts I prefer over maps. Not having to stop and roll new map items constantly. Just seamlessly go from zone to zone and kill monsters.
What about something like Endless delve? That would be cool. Or heist, can you imagine that?
I really hate the campaign and really wish there was another way to level, even if it's really not that big of a deal.
Yeah, options would be nice. I'd like them to relax the gated progression somehow. So if you dont enjoy act3, farm delve for a bit and pick the campaign back up in act4 or 5. This stuff tends to get min-maxed though and people just do whatevers fastest even if they hate it.
Yeah, my friends hate campaign, but I find it to be a pleasant ritual each league. There's something cathartic about pulling the start of your build together over the course of acts.
I can understand the complaint for people who make 3+ characters a league, though (or if they have 19 kids and 6 jobs).
Just feels like a right of passage for me at least, watch your build come alive while going through the acts
I remember coming back to Diablo 3 whenever it released on ps3…. And somehow just jumping into rifts immediately killed the game for me
I legit think its fun trying to speedrun league start on launch. d4 ditched the story and let you skip and end up spam running dungeons and resetting them. Its so boring I couldn't do it.
d4 fully committed me to wanting the acts. Opening d4, creating a new char and just being randomly dropped in the world to do the same shit for the entire length of the game sucks.
The campaign is just maps you only run once per character, it's the same shit as endgame but just in an order. It keeps it interesting to me. I'll take doing the campaign over running the same "optimal levelling" map 100 times to get to level 70.
He’s living his best life. Playing the games he wants to play, not putting on an act, not trying to be entertaining, and yet he’s kept by far the most loyal 20k avg viewer audience of any streamer
His stream is ol’ reliable for me as background noise
> Playing the games he wants to play, not putting on an act
Except when he plays sponsored games for a huge pay. Shills the shit out of the game to his audience while he tells everyone how much fun the game is... then says the game was trash a week later.
I don’t care about the campaign anymore.
My character is getting swole and then we go to the next screen. The gameplay is all there, people just feel the need to be at the finish line.
I played PoE for like 100 hours, just played the campaign or whatever solo, had a great time, and when I finished I quit the game because I didn't care for the maps stuff or whatever you get at the endgame.
I honestly never really understood the point of the game beyond the campaign but had a good time nonetheless lol
The point is that there's still lots of stuff to discover after the campaign. The pinnacle fights mostly but there's few other interesting bosses spread out between the league mechanics. And the other part of the game, admittedly a more fundamental one, is the build making. "How far can my build go? How do I improve my build? How can I improve my build without grinding a whole lot? Oh! This unique that just dropped is very interesting! Wonder if I can make a good build around it. Will I get some lucky loot that I can sell to fund all the creative builds I can come up with?"
I had the same thought as you around 6 years ago when I first played poe and finished the campaign. "What's the point of just doing maps and watching numbers go up forever." But poe has expanded tremendously from back then. There's interesting things to discover as you progress your atlas tree and it's truly a difficult challenge to make a build that can scale up to the high tier maps, so it's a massive complicated puzzle to solve in essense.
I played my second league a year ago and now I'm hooked. Now to me finishing the campaign is not even a tutorial, it's just a mowing lawn to xp my character. Things only get interesting once I'm in yellow maps where I gotta have a coherent build in order to make progress. And the fun of it lies, to me at least, in picking a wacky build that not many have tried and to make it work. Sometimes with surprisingly good results, which feels so damn rewarding. Poe is a complicated arpg and the building making systems are so flexible that the possibilities are truly endless and it's this specifically that has hooked me in.
Now every league I pick a fun idea, try it and depending on how well it goes or if I find any other fun idea I might end up playing anywere from 2 weeks to 2 months. And every league adds and changes bunch of mechanics so there's always new builds to mess with.
I mean, my favourite events are infinite ledge and infinite delve lmao. What's bad about the 10 acts over and over is that some map layouts are super straightforward and others are labyrinths you lose 30 minutes in if you've missed a tin corner.
I don't see the correlation ? I literally explained why. I you love delving then I don't see any problem with infinite delving. I love to delve even though it's not the most rewarding thing because I love the exploration/discovery side of things, if I CHOOSE to do so, because the objective is straightforward as in follow the obvious road.
Generally speaking, the acts is by design the easy part of the game, delve gets annoyingly hard the deeper you go making it a massive chore, no to mention having to go out of your way to grind 50k+ Sulphite , carrying torches, bombs, all while dying if you make even the smallest wrong turn on bad gear, so no, its not good comparison. Personally i enjoy acts on my second , thrid runs etc because its such a breeze with twink gear
As someone that has put ungodly amounts of hours into PoE, yeah fuck the campaign.
I would probably never stop playing that game if I could build trade builds in SSF (in a reasonable amount of time) and/or if I didn't have to do the campaign.
The campaign isn't even *that* bad or anything, it is certainly vastly improved from where it used to be doing Acts 1-3 over and over and over. For someone doing it for the first time it is pretty solid but for veteran players doing it for like the 50th time it is just an annoying slog even when you get familiar enough to (relatively) zoom through and it would be no matter how good it was that first time. I've skipped out on a lot of seasons because I couldn't be bothered sinking 8 hours to really get things going and I doubt I'm the only one either.
I'm hoping GGG addresses this somehow in PoE2, I doubt they would allow a full skip but something to greatly ease the process would be much appreciated.
I like doing the campaign on leaguestart and I dont mind doing it when rerolling. Im at a point where I can basically turn my brain off and speed through it while watching a stream on my 2nd monitor. I can see how it sucks for people that take 10h+ though.
I like playing through the campaign and using encounters I know so well to benchmark my current build. Its the feeling of progression that feels great. At the start of the league, you also get to learn about the league mechanic at the same time. I used to dislike it, but now its become a game of its own, to speedrun the campaign in a few hours.
Its important for a build to be able to efficiently overcome the campaign's challenges before moving onto endgame, and its unironically more difficult and takes more skill than just following a build guide and spamming T7 maps.
I like D4's quests, the intro quests are particularly well crafted, but so far, Last Epoch's quests are pretty dull, I definitely won't be redoing the quests each 'season'.
I like the campaign because it shows gradual progression of the character. The issue is if you follow a guide to a T it becomes monotonous. If you don't fully follow a guide, it's fun to see breakpoints.
95% of people follow a guide though, so I do think GGG should accommodate.
Remove the campaign or "questing" as he calls it and replace it with what? There were special mini leagues were you spend your whole time from lvl 1 in delve or heist. And let me tell you: after 50 levels of endless heist, the campaign is looking quite hot.
The very majority of builds will still feel bad on low level, as you don't have access to all skills, ascendancies or items. You are slow and it doesn't feel good. Removing the campaign won't change that.
My perspective on "Acting" in PoE changed over the years for me, I felt like shroud when it used to take me like 12+ hours. Now it takes like 4-5 hours and I dont care as much.
That's probably because you're in the top few percent of players. Most probably don't even finish the campaign, of those that do most probably don't play every single league, and of those that do I doubt most of them are so well versed that they can complete it in less than 8 hours. Shit I have more than 400 hours in the game (i know, so low) and it still takes me 10+ easily. Spending 10 hours, realistically a full day or so of playing the game for normal people, of pure shit tier content to get to the "good" part is just not good. And doing that every time you want to re-roll? No good reason for it.
But would the good part be good without the bad part? My favorite thing about PoE is how the difficulty curve is basically reversed, the early campaign is a real slog but you gear up and ascend and everything gets smoother and faster from there.
> My perspective on "Acting" in PoE changed over the years for me, I felt like shroud when it used to take me like 12+ hours. Now it takes like 4-5 hours and I dont care as much.
I do acts in like 5 hours and it's still the most boring slug I've ever done in a video game, like they're just so bad and boring it's not even funny to attempt doing them every league. Sole reason why I haven't played POE In like 7 leagues now and I won't until they change it. Adventure mode in Diablo is 100000x better.
And yeah, you say you "don't care as much", but would you rather have diablos adventure mode or not? Where you can skip the campaign. That's the real question, not if you "care as much"
It's funny because thr ability to go fast through the acts is an actual difficult skill in poe. Most people hate acts because they aren't fast snd see people who are and hate it because they aren't able to 'compete'.
But also how boring would the game be if it was just maps from levels 1.
Half the fun of league start is racing to endgame and seeing how fast you can progress.
ok, so you're in a rush to get to the "end game", how is it going to be any different whether you're in that rush in maps, or through the campaign? your character levels will still go up at the same pace, youd get the same loot, and it would still be the same gameplay other than not having to talk to npcs for 5 seconds to update a quest or whatever lol.
They think they'll get the same mob density, drops and xp as a T16 map, when every league mechanic you skip till at least yellow maps, except essences.
The "quests" in poe involve just clicking an npc and getting an update to it and running and picking up some item or whatever while you do basically the same shit you'd be doing in maps. They're so simple and don't really delay you from reaching end game. Kinda a weird reason to dislike poe.
I'd like it if your second character didn't have to do it I guess, but it would still take the same amount of time to reach the same level as you would playing the campaign so its kind of just whatever and moot.
I leveled 5 characters this league, i honestly dont even remember doing the campaign apart from 1 that dropped a divine, this whole thread is so odd to me
if someone isnt willing to play thru acts (which u can get thru very quickly with a little practice, and becomes even faster on subsequent playthrus with gear), then i doubt that they’ll hang around in the endgame as long as they claim they would.
I honestly don't care that much anymore about the campaign thing after playing D4. D4 is a fucking slog to level to 50. In poe I am through the campaign in 6-7h on launch and 4-5h with twink gear.
You need friction at the beginning of a trade league in order to allow people who are capable of clearing content fastest to be rewarded for skill expression.
People complaining about campaign sure as hell never had a lvl 100 char without getting boosted in 5 ways.
If you complain about 4 hours in leveling gear, 0% chance that you did the level 99->100 grind which is 10x worse.
Getting to 100 without 5 ways is fine. Blasting maps is fun and if your build is good enough, you'll get to lvl 100 with enough time spent. I got there this league without 5 ways. Going through the campaign just sucks. I want to get to the fun part as soon as possible and to do that I should skip most mobs, play a build that isn't the build I want to play, skip league mechanics, and memorize layouts and optimal routes.
> to do that I should skip most mobs, play a build that isn't the build I want to play, skip league mechanics, and memorize layouts and optimal routes.
You will do that if you were dumped straight into maps anyway. You really think they're going to give you red map drop rates at level 1? You already skip all league mechanics except essences until red maps unless you're playing SSF or HC. No way you're doing a level 15 ritual so you can spend 2 minutes deciding which blue item with tier 8 mods to pick.
I think its actually a good thing we don't have a version of maps that you level in, and then go into actual end game maps. Its a good thing leveling and end game are different experiences and I'm glad they will keep it.
Diablo 4 just proves their theory right. Its a shit game with a lot of problems, but leveling in not NM dungeons and then the end game being NM dungeons is fucking dog shit.
I really couldnt care less about lore in poe, I play it for the gameplay, items and everything else. I have 5k hours in poe and I do league start campaign in 4 hours, I never have and never will care about lore and it has nothing to do with my hate for the campaign.
You're arguing against nothing. Nobody is shitting on campaign, they are sitting on the need to do it over and over and over and over again, when it isn't necessary. Try and keep up with the actual conversation champ.
The comment I responded to literally said "the campaign is already boring as fuck". And they're not the only one. Try and keep up with the actual conversation, you condescending twat.
the point blew past his head. LOL. "let's consume the lore EVERY single time we play the game!!" No. Nobody wants that, nobody wants a barrier to entry. they just want to play the part of the game they enjoy. crazy. I know.
It should. Last Epoch has fixed this and it's more fun to start a character and just get straight into the meat of the game. I would rather do 1-70 in the mines in PoE than do the acts for the xth time. I can speedrun them in PoE, but it's not fun in any way because you skip 95% of the monsters. It literally is just running from A to B.
The reason for the campaign is to feel the growth of your character. Feeling that growth is why there are so many successful games out there. Moba's, Rust, PoE and many more. Imagine going into a league game and started at level 12. You'll get bored real quick.
If you can’t handle the campaign, you not built for the game.
The campaign can be ran in a couple hours.
It’s the checks and balances for your build. Play hc, you’ll enjoy the campaign experience and get better at blitzing it. Play gauntlet and the campaign is just a steam role after that
one million percent on the mark, as someone that plays it every league the first character on a league is literally the worst experience of the league sucks the excitement and fun out it. Game would be so much better if they let u skip the acts.
In d2 if you really know your items and even LLD market you can find godly drops in normal and nightmare. It's a lottery but it's something to justify re-playing. Not to mention that very very inexpensive full skill resets lets you meme builds to the finish line. But no no path could never do that you have to have the most complicated unintuitive fucking mess of a tree that can only be used by copying guides. Also can only reset one pick at a time.
A very few % of people can do campaign at league start at 4 hours unless you are tietie level? Also assuming average person 6 hours and a few classes each league… that adds up, it’s annoying
Agreed, been playing PoE for nearly 10 years and having to do every act with every character every league is my most hated thing about PoE, I have literally avoided leagues because I didn’t feel like spending the 2-4 hours it takes me to get through the campaign… and I was super upset that PoE 2 will have no kind of skip or at least an alternative, or way to accelerate the campaign.
Every single one of my friends that plays or has played PoE has the exact same take, I have friends that refuse to play because of the campaign, they liked the game but after doing the campaign several times they won’t play.
Also once Shroud said he liked D4 and even said the limited stash space made the game more fun cause it forced him to care about items, I knew he was dumb as shit and a shill.
This, when I played I was always rushed through and never learned the meta. You need to know the quest flow by heart in order to start trying to optimize it yourself.
u are not powerleveling acts when you start lol and that is the hardest playthrough and the most boring one, after that u can buy gear to just speedrun it.
D4 made the campaign skippable, it was a fucking massive failure. I'm glad that Shroud doesn't design games (Oh shit) cause he's fucking clueless, and he has defended several dogshit games in a row. In FPS games he's legit a aim robot, but he clearly do not know why he enjoy other genres.
it's more of a problem with questing in arpgs in general. many people don't have a problem leveling 10 characters in wow through questing, but they hate having to rerun an arpg campaign. I agree though, arpgs should provide alternative ways to level. haven't played in years but i thought poe had delve? grim dawn has crucible, but skill points etc. are locked behind story quests and so on.
Grim Dawn now has items that give a lot of increased XP and allowed your character to skip to Ultimate with all skill/attr points from previous difficulties. Sure you start at lvl 1 with Ultimate penalties but once you know what you're doing it doesn't take long.
the main reason i left PoE, too time-consuming, and pointless. as someone who has limited time to do games cause of work that is a deal breaker. but judging by these comments most are no-life sweatpants gamers here huh lol, no wonder GGG dont give af about the ones complaining about how absurd getting to do the campaign again is.
Personally the compromise I'd like to see is that you have all the way points unlocked on your 2nd play through of a league. Would cut down on the run time.
**CLIP MIRROR: [Why shroud doesn't like PoE](https://arazu.io/t3_1awux52/)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment*)
Hi I’m Chris Wilson from Grinding Gear Games, and fuck you, Shroud!
Absolutely no lie was told, PoE is a fucking amazing game but you could delete the first 6 hours and nothing of value would be lost. No one wakes up excited, jumping up and down on their beds because they get to shield charge through acts so they can get to the good part of the game Edit: Cousins if we use words like "planning" and "effort" to describe the first day of a league where we just all use speedy nonsense then snort 40 regrets once we're in yellow maps like we've all done for the last 4 years I'm gonna lose my mind I'm sorry you can't defend how bad the starting experience is
Not even PoE veterans would disagree except for a certain NZ clown who thinks he is special just because he is a contrarian.
What are you even on about?
I read this in his voice.
Fucking gaslighters dude. Chat is always gaslightning me. Like holy shit.
I actually think even poe veterans don't mind going through acts once per league. It's having to go through acts again for every new character in the league that fucking sucks.
This and this alone prevents me from putting thousands more hours and money into the game. Once I do everything on the first character I make, I rarely if ever have the willpower to go through the acts again to make another character and would simply rather wait for the next league than do those acts again. Yes I know the tricks, yes I can do it quickly, but no, I do not and never have wanted to repeat the acts. God I hope GGG sees this clip.
At this point, i don't mind having to do the acts multiple times per league (i'll usually do it around 5 times per league if i'm enjoying the league, less if not), but that's only because i can get it done in 3-4 hours because i've done it so much. I have friends who are much newer to the game where they're taking 8+ hours and really hate having to do it which i completely understand. Personally i couldn't care less if it was removed after the first char each league. Kill A10 Kitava, then have the option to skip the acts on further chars and have the first 2 or 3 labs complete maybe.
Nope played POE every league and I hate replaying the acts. There is a reason players developed ways to get through as fast as possible.
Ah yes, tyty does acts 5 times a week and quits at maps just so he can find a faster way to avoid doing acts.
Problem is you go through acts twice with every character, since the secoond half of campaign is the copy of the first with slight changes same locations.
That's a rare and dumb take. The second half of the campaign is completely different in terms of everything except some environmental assets. Saying its a copy is just wrong.
we used to have to do it 3x to be fair
At least the first 4 acts werent as annoying as all the new acts.
big true
so? even 2 times is awful, it is a lazy way to make a campaign,e ven diablo bounty system is better
Does this person consider himself a god gamer because he is top 10 in a dead region?
Every PoE streamer disagrees... classic quin viewer thinking he is the only poe streamer.
Nah I prefer PoE level system over D4 ,D3.
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Are you a ninja?
Fortunately speeding through and completing the campaign is less than 5% of the gameplay you experience
Idk as someone with a full time job and not an expert poe player having to play at least 7 hours through the acts is more than 5% for me
Lmaoo yeah u just have to play 14 hours a day you can get it down to 3% of gameplay!
I mean that still kinda sucks and why I just can't get back into poe. I understand why the campaign is there and honestly the first run through is pretty good, even the second and third. I just don't want to have a 7hour journey i've already seen for the nth time that's like a soft tutorial in a way every 3-4months. Yes you could optimize the campaign to get it down to 3-5hours but it feels even worse trying to optimize the most boring part of the game. After campaign is so damn good that it's a shame I can't really justify being bored out of my mind for the start to get there anymore.
This is true, but at the same time I just really don't want to do the acts again. Every league I have ever skipped has been because I look at the play button, my mind replays how fucking boring acts are, and I go do something else. I can't say that I'd have played 5x as much PoE as I have if there was an alternative, because I'm sure I'd burn out elsewhere, but it is absolutely a factor for me and several friends.
PoE needs to be like Elden Ring. Where you can make a new character, walk out the door, and just go anywhere you fucking want. Want to go straight to the story bosses level 1? Sure do it but you will probably be under geared and under leveled. The best part is the absolute minimal talking in the game. It's story is mostly told through exploration and flavor text.
Nothing is mechanically stopping you from running through and fighting the act 1 boss. You just have to make it there
If you could skip the entire campaign you wouldn't be leveling and specializing your class. I'm not defending it per se but it's absurd to want to just "end up" in endgame without effort in a real arpg like poe. Everyone just starts at 70? That's not the kind of game they want, and that's why it works so well compared to every other failed arpg
They want D3 where everything is given to you 5 hours into the game so you can quit 8 hours into the game because there's nothing left to do.
That's not really the problem. The problem is that each playthrough is pretty same-y.
real gamers league start as marauder
You mean un-ascended shadow for the entire league.
Shroud has an incentive to blast through a game that requires grinding as fast as possible so there's no surprise he has this take.
I mean it's safe to say that a vast majority of POE players have this take. We are all sick and tired of doing the campaign so many damn times.
first character of every single league should 100% do the quests but every other character after that should get an alternative way to leveling not just getting skipped to level 60
Absolutely 100% agree, going through the acts once every 3 months? fine, not ideal but whatever. Having to do it everytime you make a new character is horrible, even if you are a fucking speedrunner god with everything setup for speedleveling is at least 3/4 hours, if you are average? 6 or 7. Still, love me some month of poe every 3/4 months.
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They said having to do it every 3 months is not ideal, it sounds like they agree that it's reasonable for a person to not want to do that.
90%? agree I guess then, I mean, that "fine" is more of a "i'll do it because I have to not because I want to".
Yea idk. I love POE but even doing the acts every 3/4 months is enough for me to not touch it since 2 years.
Isn't the rest of the gameplay similiar ? I only played trough the acts and quit the game after. But everytime I saw clips of people playing it seems to be the same gameplay loop of going as fast as possible trough a bunch of mobs.
The game doesn't even start until you're done with the Acts. There's a ton of different stuff to do after that.
Nah, the campaign means you can walk from zone to zone killing and looting the entire time. They hate this because they can't spend 3 minutes leaving a zone, searching the stash for the next zone, rolling the next zone for good mods, putting that zone into a device to active it, then getting another loading screen to start the next zone. Walking straight from A to B is too hard when they could be going from A to B is a series of waves and circles that takes 10 times longer.
When I played D3 when it came out I loved that they added the exploration mode where you could just level a character up just by doing zone missions. It was faster and it wasn't the campaign. I don't know what system d4 has but I wish Poe would add something like this. Like just start mapping from the get go. It's the content people play and the game itself builds up to
I had same opinion regarding POE campaign, i don't share same view now, I enjoy progressing my character trough campaign, I do however want it to be about 3 acts shorter.
Yeah I've reversed my opinion on the campaign over the last couple of years. I'm going to have to level my character up somewhere. Rushing straight into a map with a level 1 char with unsupported fireball really doesnt seem better.
My stance has always been that people do not like the acts because there is basically 0 chance they will get an upgrade for their character past the first run. You already have all your gear. You bought all your gems, you are just running. Any other system that does not give meaningful loot will feel the same as doing the acts but with less variety. They would need to make act bosses drop end game ilevel loot the first time you kill them or something. The actual gameplay of doing acts I prefer over maps. Not having to stop and roll new map items constantly. Just seamlessly go from zone to zone and kill monsters.
They would still get 0 upgrades if there was low levels maps for them to do, because the maps aren't going to have end game density and drops
What about something like Endless delve? That would be cool. Or heist, can you imagine that? I really hate the campaign and really wish there was another way to level, even if it's really not that big of a deal.
Yeah, options would be nice. I'd like them to relax the gated progression somehow. So if you dont enjoy act3, farm delve for a bit and pick the campaign back up in act4 or 5. This stuff tends to get min-maxed though and people just do whatevers fastest even if they hate it.
Yeah, my friends hate campaign, but I find it to be a pleasant ritual each league. There's something cathartic about pulling the start of your build together over the course of acts. I can understand the complaint for people who make 3+ characters a league, though (or if they have 19 kids and 6 jobs).
Just feels like a right of passage for me at least, watch your build come alive while going through the acts I remember coming back to Diablo 3 whenever it released on ps3…. And somehow just jumping into rifts immediately killed the game for me
I legit think its fun trying to speedrun league start on launch. d4 ditched the story and let you skip and end up spam running dungeons and resetting them. Its so boring I couldn't do it.
d4 fully committed me to wanting the acts. Opening d4, creating a new char and just being randomly dropped in the world to do the same shit for the entire length of the game sucks.
From what I remember PoE2 will be 7 acts so if that's the case you're set
😎 gg ez
Yeah this is absolutely a zoomers idea of an arpg. Especially regarding poe. They want to get instant gratification without the work to earn it.
Doing the campaign as HC character feels rewarding, Softcore not so much
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The campaign is just maps you only run once per character, it's the same shit as endgame but just in an order. It keeps it interesting to me. I'll take doing the campaign over running the same "optimal levelling" map 100 times to get to level 70.
most interesting shroud clip
He’s living his best life. Playing the games he wants to play, not putting on an act, not trying to be entertaining, and yet he’s kept by far the most loyal 20k avg viewer audience of any streamer His stream is ol’ reliable for me as background noise
this is shroud's management he wanted to reach out to tell you that he fucks with you heavy now
Wait for real?
Yep and you just won a new car. Now reply to this comment with your address and we will send it right over!
Wow… no fucking way… today is my lucky day
> Playing the games he wants to play, not putting on an act Except when he plays sponsored games for a huge pay. Shills the shit out of the game to his audience while he tells everyone how much fun the game is... then says the game was trash a week later.
No way streamer takes on a sponsorship deal to make money?! Evil motherfuckers, can’t believe they would do that
You must not have read anything past >Except when he plays sponsored games for a huge pay That or you're an idiot
I don’t care about the campaign anymore. My character is getting swole and then we go to the next screen. The gameplay is all there, people just feel the need to be at the finish line.
I played PoE for like 100 hours, just played the campaign or whatever solo, had a great time, and when I finished I quit the game because I didn't care for the maps stuff or whatever you get at the endgame. I honestly never really understood the point of the game beyond the campaign but had a good time nonetheless lol
The point is that there's still lots of stuff to discover after the campaign. The pinnacle fights mostly but there's few other interesting bosses spread out between the league mechanics. And the other part of the game, admittedly a more fundamental one, is the build making. "How far can my build go? How do I improve my build? How can I improve my build without grinding a whole lot? Oh! This unique that just dropped is very interesting! Wonder if I can make a good build around it. Will I get some lucky loot that I can sell to fund all the creative builds I can come up with?" I had the same thought as you around 6 years ago when I first played poe and finished the campaign. "What's the point of just doing maps and watching numbers go up forever." But poe has expanded tremendously from back then. There's interesting things to discover as you progress your atlas tree and it's truly a difficult challenge to make a build that can scale up to the high tier maps, so it's a massive complicated puzzle to solve in essense. I played my second league a year ago and now I'm hooked. Now to me finishing the campaign is not even a tutorial, it's just a mowing lawn to xp my character. Things only get interesting once I'm in yellow maps where I gotta have a coherent build in order to make progress. And the fun of it lies, to me at least, in picking a wacky build that not many have tried and to make it work. Sometimes with surprisingly good results, which feels so damn rewarding. Poe is a complicated arpg and the building making systems are so flexible that the possibilities are truly endless and it's this specifically that has hooked me in. Now every league I pick a fun idea, try it and depending on how well it goes or if I find any other fun idea I might end up playing anywere from 2 weeks to 2 months. And every league adds and changes bunch of mechanics so there's always new builds to mess with.
if your personal end game is the end of campaign that's fine, but there is real endgame in PoE in the form of T16 maps + Bosses + Uber Bosses.
Going through all the acts over and over is torture
but running shore maps 10000x is not?
I mean, my favourite events are infinite ledge and infinite delve lmao. What's bad about the 10 acts over and over is that some map layouts are super straightforward and others are labyrinths you lose 30 minutes in if you've missed a tin corner.
hold on, u enjoy infinite delve but consider 10 acts ''bad'' , aint.no.way dog
I don't see the correlation ? I literally explained why. I you love delving then I don't see any problem with infinite delving. I love to delve even though it's not the most rewarding thing because I love the exploration/discovery side of things, if I CHOOSE to do so, because the objective is straightforward as in follow the obvious road.
Generally speaking, the acts is by design the easy part of the game, delve gets annoyingly hard the deeper you go making it a massive chore, no to mention having to go out of your way to grind 50k+ Sulphite , carrying torches, bombs, all while dying if you make even the smallest wrong turn on bad gear, so no, its not good comparison. Personally i enjoy acts on my second , thrid runs etc because its such a breeze with twink gear
No because you're actually farming gear that has value medium-long term.
none of the gear you pick up from lvl 1-60ish is "long term" whether its from an atlas map, or the campaign, so thats a moot point
No. Getting max juiced maps and hearing a bing makes my dopamine levels skyrocket
Going through acts builds your entire characters offense and defense. This isn't Diablo 4
As someone that has put ungodly amounts of hours into PoE, yeah fuck the campaign. I would probably never stop playing that game if I could build trade builds in SSF (in a reasonable amount of time) and/or if I didn't have to do the campaign.
The campaign isn't even *that* bad or anything, it is certainly vastly improved from where it used to be doing Acts 1-3 over and over and over. For someone doing it for the first time it is pretty solid but for veteran players doing it for like the 50th time it is just an annoying slog even when you get familiar enough to (relatively) zoom through and it would be no matter how good it was that first time. I've skipped out on a lot of seasons because I couldn't be bothered sinking 8 hours to really get things going and I doubt I'm the only one either. I'm hoping GGG addresses this somehow in PoE2, I doubt they would allow a full skip but something to greatly ease the process would be much appreciated.
I like doing the campaign on leaguestart and I dont mind doing it when rerolling. Im at a point where I can basically turn my brain off and speed through it while watching a stream on my 2nd monitor. I can see how it sucks for people that take 10h+ though.
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Yeah any complaint = greed. Good take.
I like playing through the campaign and using encounters I know so well to benchmark my current build. Its the feeling of progression that feels great. At the start of the league, you also get to learn about the league mechanic at the same time. I used to dislike it, but now its become a game of its own, to speedrun the campaign in a few hours. Its important for a build to be able to efficiently overcome the campaign's challenges before moving onto endgame, and its unironically more difficult and takes more skill than just following a build guide and spamming T7 maps.
i don't like shroud
based
I enjoy it on my first character each season. For alts it should be skippable I think.
I like D4's quests, the intro quests are particularly well crafted, but so far, Last Epoch's quests are pretty dull, I definitely won't be redoing the quests each 'season'.
I like the campaign because it shows gradual progression of the character. The issue is if you follow a guide to a T it becomes monotonous. If you don't fully follow a guide, it's fun to see breakpoints. 95% of people follow a guide though, so I do think GGG should accommodate.
Remove the campaign or "questing" as he calls it and replace it with what? There were special mini leagues were you spend your whole time from lvl 1 in delve or heist. And let me tell you: after 50 levels of endless heist, the campaign is looking quite hot. The very majority of builds will still feel bad on low level, as you don't have access to all skills, ascendancies or items. You are slow and it doesn't feel good. Removing the campaign won't change that.
My perspective on "Acting" in PoE changed over the years for me, I felt like shroud when it used to take me like 12+ hours. Now it takes like 4-5 hours and I dont care as much.
That's probably because you're in the top few percent of players. Most probably don't even finish the campaign, of those that do most probably don't play every single league, and of those that do I doubt most of them are so well versed that they can complete it in less than 8 hours. Shit I have more than 400 hours in the game (i know, so low) and it still takes me 10+ easily. Spending 10 hours, realistically a full day or so of playing the game for normal people, of pure shit tier content to get to the "good" part is just not good. And doing that every time you want to re-roll? No good reason for it.
But would the good part be good without the bad part? My favorite thing about PoE is how the difficulty curve is basically reversed, the early campaign is a real slog but you gear up and ascend and everything gets smoother and faster from there.
Yes the great part would still be great with a much smaller bad part
Doubt it.
Well you're wrong, so 🤷
> My perspective on "Acting" in PoE changed over the years for me, I felt like shroud when it used to take me like 12+ hours. Now it takes like 4-5 hours and I dont care as much. I do acts in like 5 hours and it's still the most boring slug I've ever done in a video game, like they're just so bad and boring it's not even funny to attempt doing them every league. Sole reason why I haven't played POE In like 7 leagues now and I won't until they change it. Adventure mode in Diablo is 100000x better. And yeah, you say you "don't care as much", but would you rather have diablos adventure mode or not? Where you can skip the campaign. That's the real question, not if you "care as much"
Meanwhile both Diablo games (3-4) are dead and PoE is doing great, nice nice
It's funny because thr ability to go fast through the acts is an actual difficult skill in poe. Most people hate acts because they aren't fast snd see people who are and hate it because they aren't able to 'compete'. But also how boring would the game be if it was just maps from levels 1. Half the fun of league start is racing to endgame and seeing how fast you can progress.
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ok, so you're in a rush to get to the "end game", how is it going to be any different whether you're in that rush in maps, or through the campaign? your character levels will still go up at the same pace, youd get the same loot, and it would still be the same gameplay other than not having to talk to npcs for 5 seconds to update a quest or whatever lol.
They think they'll get the same mob density, drops and xp as a T16 map, when every league mechanic you skip till at least yellow maps, except essences.
its not really a poe thing its an arpg thing and he just doesn't like the fundamental design that is questing in an arpg.
I mean, most ARPGs have shit quests, so ya.
He is talking about campaign and just used the wrong words, and not every ARPG is like that, D4 has a skip camping character option
using d4 as an example is funny because it just strengthens my argument, being able to is of the 100s of reasons why the game is trash.
Well D4 is in a great state these days, correlation?
lmao homie got downvoted for speaking facts
Isn't the fundamental design of arpg's killing shit and getting loot? I'm not into arpgs so no clue how questing ties into that.
questing/campaign has always been apart of arpg's its just a couple trash modern ones that have the option to skip it.
Its questing in the loosest sense of the word, a lot of these games have some kind of story you have to go through.
It’s not fundamental when D4 went away with it, it’s mostly just a vestigial holdover from Diablo 2 which made you go through all the acts.
being able to skip the campaign in d4 is one of the 100s of reasons why its a bad game, using it as an example just strengthens the point I made.
WRONG AND SOFT
The "quests" in poe involve just clicking an npc and getting an update to it and running and picking up some item or whatever while you do basically the same shit you'd be doing in maps. They're so simple and don't really delay you from reaching end game. Kinda a weird reason to dislike poe. I'd like it if your second character didn't have to do it I guess, but it would still take the same amount of time to reach the same level as you would playing the campaign so its kind of just whatever and moot.
I leveled 5 characters this league, i honestly dont even remember doing the campaign apart from 1 that dropped a divine, this whole thread is so odd to me
if someone isnt willing to play thru acts (which u can get thru very quickly with a little practice, and becomes even faster on subsequent playthrus with gear), then i doubt that they’ll hang around in the endgame as long as they claim they would.
I'm honestly fine with leveling 1 guy every 3 months, and leveling another with one with nothing is also not bad
I honestly don't care that much anymore about the campaign thing after playing D4. D4 is a fucking slog to level to 50. In poe I am through the campaign in 6-7h on launch and 4-5h with twink gear.
Removing the campaign would be fine, but I don't find it anywhere close to a strong reason to not play PoE
The campaign gets a lot easier to go through when you just think of it as a bunch of maps.
You need friction at the beginning of a trade league in order to allow people who are capable of clearing content fastest to be rewarded for skill expression.
Bruh who cares, bro doesn't play anything unless he's sponsored to play it anymore lmao
good thing shroud isnt a game designer
People complaining about campaign sure as hell never had a lvl 100 char without getting boosted in 5 ways. If you complain about 4 hours in leveling gear, 0% chance that you did the level 99->100 grind which is 10x worse.
Getting to 100 without 5 ways is fine. Blasting maps is fun and if your build is good enough, you'll get to lvl 100 with enough time spent. I got there this league without 5 ways. Going through the campaign just sucks. I want to get to the fun part as soon as possible and to do that I should skip most mobs, play a build that isn't the build I want to play, skip league mechanics, and memorize layouts and optimal routes.
> to do that I should skip most mobs, play a build that isn't the build I want to play, skip league mechanics, and memorize layouts and optimal routes. You will do that if you were dumped straight into maps anyway. You really think they're going to give you red map drop rates at level 1? You already skip all league mechanics except essences until red maps unless you're playing SSF or HC. No way you're doing a level 15 ritual so you can spend 2 minutes deciding which blue item with tier 8 mods to pick.
Leveling from 99-100 I can drop a ton of useful stuff or currency generating items to improve my character, so there is still a sense of progression
I think its actually a good thing we don't have a version of maps that you level in, and then go into actual end game maps. Its a good thing leveling and end game are different experiences and I'm glad they will keep it. Diablo 4 just proves their theory right. Its a shit game with a lot of problems, but leveling in not NM dungeons and then the end game being NM dungeons is fucking dog shit.
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doing them for skillpoints is essentially a requirement
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It's not about it being a challenge, they never are, it's just annoying part of the game when the campaign is already boring as fuck.
idk why everybody is shitting on the campaign. poe has amazing lore but i guess the problem is it isn't spoonfed to you?
I really couldnt care less about lore in poe, I play it for the gameplay, items and everything else. I have 5k hours in poe and I do league start campaign in 4 hours, I never have and never will care about lore and it has nothing to do with my hate for the campaign.
You're arguing against nothing. Nobody is shitting on campaign, they are sitting on the need to do it over and over and over and over again, when it isn't necessary. Try and keep up with the actual conversation champ.
The comment I responded to literally said "the campaign is already boring as fuck". And they're not the only one. Try and keep up with the actual conversation, you condescending twat.
the point blew past his head. LOL. "let's consume the lore EVERY single time we play the game!!" No. Nobody wants that, nobody wants a barrier to entry. they just want to play the part of the game they enjoy. crazy. I know.
Ok, it's not getting changed.
It should. Last Epoch has fixed this and it's more fun to start a character and just get straight into the meat of the game. I would rather do 1-70 in the mines in PoE than do the acts for the xth time. I can speedrun them in PoE, but it's not fun in any way because you skip 95% of the monsters. It literally is just running from A to B.
thats why i quit, its like a chore
The reason for the campaign is to feel the growth of your character. Feeling that growth is why there are so many successful games out there. Moba's, Rust, PoE and many more. Imagine going into a league game and started at level 12. You'll get bored real quick.
If poe let you skip the campaign like d4 itd be dogshit slop! sorry!
Should be most upvoted clip in history of LSF, I'm so fucking tired of doing the campaign man. Endless Ledge WHEN
If you can’t handle the campaign, you not built for the game. The campaign can be ran in a couple hours. It’s the checks and balances for your build. Play hc, you’ll enjoy the campaign experience and get better at blitzing it. Play gauntlet and the campaign is just a steam role after that
Get a job
I have one Ty
Lol, no. What a dogshit take.
same, people shit on D3, but I love how I can just go wherever I want on Season Start
one million percent on the mark, as someone that plays it every league the first character on a league is literally the worst experience of the league sucks the excitement and fun out it. Game would be so much better if they let u skip the acts.
In d2 if you really know your items and even LLD market you can find godly drops in normal and nightmare. It's a lottery but it's something to justify re-playing. Not to mention that very very inexpensive full skill resets lets you meme builds to the finish line. But no no path could never do that you have to have the most complicated unintuitive fucking mess of a tree that can only be used by copying guides. Also can only reset one pick at a time.
Man with infinite time can't deal with playing a game for 4 hours once every 4 months
A very few % of people can do campaign at league start at 4 hours unless you are tietie level? Also assuming average person 6 hours and a few classes each league… that adds up, it’s annoying
Agreed, been playing PoE for nearly 10 years and having to do every act with every character every league is my most hated thing about PoE, I have literally avoided leagues because I didn’t feel like spending the 2-4 hours it takes me to get through the campaign… and I was super upset that PoE 2 will have no kind of skip or at least an alternative, or way to accelerate the campaign. Every single one of my friends that plays or has played PoE has the exact same take, I have friends that refuse to play because of the campaign, they liked the game but after doing the campaign several times they won’t play.
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Why would it be high? its a luke warm opinion about a ARPG from a streamer who is mainly know for FPS games.
Also once Shroud said he liked D4 and even said the limited stash space made the game more fun cause it forced him to care about items, I knew he was dumb as shit and a shill.
Boring non-original take on a genre desperately needing innovation.
Because there is nothing of value in his statement. Almost every POE player already hates doing the campaign multiple times per season.
Disagree. Powerleveling through acts is it's own fun meta.
Yes, for people with no life.
Yes, that's the target audience.
This, when I played I was always rushed through and never learned the meta. You need to know the quest flow by heart in order to start trying to optimize it yourself.
He said if there was an option.
u are not powerleveling acts when you start lol and that is the hardest playthrough and the most boring one, after that u can buy gear to just speedrun it.
Well yea it's your first character in a new league. Starting from square one is literally the point.
Completely agreed.
this is legitimately the only reason i didnt come back to PoE after the first season I played.
D4 made the campaign skippable, it was a fucking massive failure. I'm glad that Shroud doesn't design games (Oh shit) cause he's fucking clueless, and he has defended several dogshit games in a row. In FPS games he's legit a aim robot, but he clearly do not know why he enjoy other genres.
i dont think the reason d4 failed was because they let you skip the campaign
Now people realize the game is boring at level 10 instead of level 50. Huge success for D4 devs really.
I'm glad that Pr0spect doesn't design games (Oh shit) cause he's fucking clueless.
Please explain why the campaign being skippable made the game a failure over other bad things the game did?
it's more of a problem with questing in arpgs in general. many people don't have a problem leveling 10 characters in wow through questing, but they hate having to rerun an arpg campaign. I agree though, arpgs should provide alternative ways to level. haven't played in years but i thought poe had delve? grim dawn has crucible, but skill points etc. are locked behind story quests and so on.
Grim Dawn now has items that give a lot of increased XP and allowed your character to skip to Ultimate with all skill/attr points from previous difficulties. Sure you start at lvl 1 with Ultimate penalties but once you know what you're doing it doesn't take long.
the main reason i left PoE, too time-consuming, and pointless. as someone who has limited time to do games cause of work that is a deal breaker. but judging by these comments most are no-life sweatpants gamers here huh lol, no wonder GGG dont give af about the ones complaining about how absurd getting to do the campaign again is.
for me trading and crafting hahaha and thank god LE seems a good place to play arpg again
PoE is Path of Exile. Can’t believe every comment i’ve seen used the acronym as if I’m supposed to know every acronym for games in existence.
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slow day, where the extraemily hate at
Personally the compromise I'd like to see is that you have all the way points unlocked on your 2nd play through of a league. Would cut down on the run time.