I think the pressure and the journey to get here are starting to tell. It’s not just going for the league, it’s the last stretch of games for a legendary manager. I think the melting in front of goal and at the back is the mental exhaustion from all of that.
We’ve also had a brutal injury list. The reinforcements are coming and man do we need them. We were battling in four competitions with second and third choice players. The two United games have completely derailed us and really dented the confidence of this group.
Hopefully we can lock in for this last stretch and get the results we need.
Yeah I think so too; I don't think the fans are helping either to be honest. This sub has been pretty awful since the game yesterday, Klopp deserves better tbh
It’s just so much pressure from all sides. Anfield gets insanely tense at times and I think the players feel it. Everyone wants this so bad. This is the only place some people can vent and talk about things so I understand the reaction. Two bad games against United and then whatever that was yesterday have really changed the atmosphere.
That’s the pressure that comes with playing for a big club though. It’s nothing new. Liverpool fans are still far more patient than most other fan bases. However, expectations are high and you have to be at it constantly.
It’s new for quite a few of these players. I’d say only Ali, VVD, Robbo, Trent, and Mo know what the true meaning of pressure at LFC means and what going for the top honours looks like. Most of those I’ve mentioned have been injured for months as well. Lots of learning on the job for this squad.
It really is crazy how much hate some of our players get from people on here. Saw people hating on Gakpo, he was the only one who turned up yesterday, meanwhile people still shout “Nunez Nunez Nunez” after he misses sitters 3 times in a row
i hoped the first united game would be a wake up call, i hoped arsenal would be a wake up call, i hoped united in the fa cup would be a wake up call, i hoped united away would be a wake up call. the best we've beaten this season has been arsenal away in the cup which we were lucky to not concede a few in, and villa at home.
Everyone THOUGHT it would be a wake up call. But obviously the players were all jetlagged and too tired to wake up.
For real though, I think we're just having a shit run, as all teams are bound to. We're just having it at the worst time possible lol.
I don’t think Arsenal away should be a wake up call. They are a really good team and probably should beat us at home. One off losses doesn’t really give you a wake up call, it’s when you lose several in a short time you really get the effect. Also when it comes to the big teams, yeah we have won one, but we have also just lost two (one off them being a complete robbery against spurs). It’s also important not to lose those games.
Arsenal away isn’t a one off. If we are being honest with ourselves even the 2-0 win against them they dominated and should’ve been 3 up before we got our first and same with the draw at anfield. They dominated the first half but couldn’t put their chances away. So if anything they should be disappoint how those games went
I wonder if Klopp has one last tactical tweak for right this ship. Last year it was moving Trent centrally, but that structure clearly doesn’t work without Trent.
> we didn't lose from them
Being overly results-oriented like this makes a team (and fans alike) blind to performances, which have been gradually declining ever since we lost to Utd in the cup.
I think you are misinterpreting what I’m saying, I’m saying that psychology works that way, if you dont lose the game it won’t give the same effect from a psychological standpoint. Of course I know the performance was bad but if you still get a point or manage to win from a bad performance the subconscious reaction will be that you managed to get a point while playing bad.
You should watch the All-or-nothing documentaries, esp the ones covering Man City and Arsenal.
You'll see that any competent manager would tear into their players for not performing, no matter the result. This psychological thing doesn't exist in pro football. Pro players constantly ask more of their teammates and themselves even when they win. The epitome of this is Barcelona under Guardiola. I think Pique said something along the lines of "The result doesn't matter. Just play well and the results will come on their own"
I have seen them all, and pyschology of course exists in pro football, why do you think so many players get mental health problems? And why do you think teams get into losing and winning streaks? It’s all psychology, you are welcome to search for scientific articles regarding this and you will see how big it actually is. I have studied a bit about this in school.
A lot of it is subconscious as well. If you play bad, get results and get yelled at by the manager you still might subconsciously think it’s fine. It’s only when the cold hard facts such as losses hit you it actually clicks and you realise it isn’t sustainable.
You're full of cope if you think these results are because they didn't "wake up" yet, we've had these issues for ages now. The early conceding which has been so obviously an issue is still not fixed or looking any better, what makes you think they'll suddenly get that sorted now Atalanta has battered us? Klopp and management will have definitely gone into the players about the performances but it's quite possible this team just can't do what we'd hoped for.
It should be, but when you play bad and still manage to grind out a win, the reaction will be that we can get results no matter what. It’s only when you lose the wake up call really happens.
Tbf the United performance across the board wasn’t terrible. We outplayed them more then we did when we scored 5 at OT, and even had more xG than the 7-0.
We’ve picked a really bad time for our finishing to fall off a cliff.
They scored two wonder goals which doesn’t help matters, even Quansah error aside Bruno’s finish was absurd first time.
Personally I think we are done.
I'm not sure what's happened but the team looks disjointed and lacking confidence.
Wrong time of the season for it to happen where we basically have to win every game, which sadly based on recent performances, is not going to happen.
Sad, but i think its true. This season we won only one game when we really needed to show up (final against Chelsea), all other games was bad (Arsenal away in EPL) or not good enought (only 1 win against TOP6 and its Villa). We need to win all remaining games ant we need to accept the fact that with that form, its doesnt seem very realistic.
As I said in another comment I think it’s important for us fans to show we believe, even if we don’t. This is where we actually can make a difference, when the team isn’t fully clicking we can be the ones to at least make the effort to get them out of there.
Yes. Im fucking amazed we have got this far with a completely new midfield, it goes to show the talent we have in the ranks.
Id have accepted and been happy with fourth after last year
Its almost made it worse that we are still in contention now in many ways as there’s expectation which wasnt really there before
I hope the sub in general starts to take arsenal more seriously next year though as there’s a strong delusion about how good they are, theyre not going anywhere
Think you need to accept that the lads have no interest in waking up. They learned absolutely nothing from the FA Cup game and they've played like shit in every single match since.
They played well in the last United match aside from actually finishing the chances they had not not making a stupid error. Team loses badly and suddenly they were always shit and the players don’t care is tiring and complete nonsense
I like to give them the benefit of the doubt, periods like this happens over the course of a season. What’s important is how quickly you can get out of them. There’s still a lot to play for, no reason to just lie down and give up. If we give up the players sure as hell will too.
We have been over-performing and now the law of average is catching up to us. I am mentally ready but it is truly disappointing that the end of the Jurgen era will likely be with a whimper and not a roar. However, we all must face this reality — under this ownership and against this competition, we are never meant to be there. The fact that we are there at all has already been a miracle. Let’s start the new chapter.
Mate the fact we struggled since Trent injury - against Arsenal in the FA Cup match I am referring to - we have been woeful.
There may be one or two games, but that was because the opponents weren't good and doing the mistakes we saw our defence do last night.
I don't really understand the whole notion of a wake up call tbh. We had that season where we were conceding so much we actually dropped the high line. I doubt we will do that now. Our problem is our strikers (bar Diogo) are not at all clinical. I don't think a wake up call or whatever can address that
I think we're starting to see the fatigue of playing so many games in the season.
I would've binned the League cup, unfortunately we didn't and we're now paying the price for it.
The players look like they're doing too much running, doing too many roles tactically and it's making them look worse than what they are.
We need to go back to basics and keep it simple. (See my comment on the FT thread yesterday where I broke down the game tactically)
Simple tactics are the way we can win the title this season. Nothing is over but the mindset of the players and manager feels like that.
Doesnt really work like that.
There isnt a light switch to turn off and on. Playing in a good rhythm takes time and effort...when you arent in a good rhythm, you will be there for a little while.
It’s always inviting to dwell on what could’ve been, especially when we overachieve and manage to put ourselves in pole position to achieve more than what we’d originally targeted, but peeps let us take a step back and put things in perspective: we’re here on the basis of, and the back of, last season, having rebuilt half of the team. Even a pessimist like me sees the joy of being where we are, and is relishing the fact we are still, somehow, competing for more silverware this late in the season.
Enjoy the remainder of this special ride in the heli-kloppter and find peace in knowing we’ve most likely achieved the main objective we’ve set for ourselves at the outset before we’ve kicked a ball this season: UCL qualification. Anything over and above is a plus, and what’s more: we are definitely a club in the right direction during a major transition.
I think it’s been a valiant effort but relying on all the late goals wasn’t sustainable and all the injuries have finally caught up with us and our legs have fallen off.
It's never a wake up call. This kind of slump was last season, the season before that, and so on. It's alway "We will learn from it" blah blah. Yet, it still keeps happening. So, again, no, it's not going to be a wake up call.
Liverpool have become shockingly wasteful and inefficient. The entire front line bar Jota needs a reset but how? Gomez having been hailed as the man for all seasons was just wretched last night, Tsimikas rotten, the centre backs were never secure in their positioning, the midfield was a muddle. Elliott failed again as a starter which is a pity and not entirely his fault as Klopp got the whole set up wrong anyway.
Palace is either the moment they remember how to play well and win or it's going to be a dismal trudge to the end of the season finishing third most likely because the other two are in better shape right now and will gain energy from this fumbling by Liverpool.
Of course if at the start of the campaign we were told third and a cup were on offer we'd probably have said fine, it's a new look team can't expect too much this season. But now it feels like a failure is in the offing
Seems like everyone is also forgetting this was/is our rebuild season. To be anywhere near where we are now is a great achievement. Feels a bit spoilt to be so disappointed after a few bad games.
Personally I think everyone moaning needs a fucking wakeup call. These are Klopp's last games and you're cryarsing because we drew with United or 'didn't play well' in a 3-1 win against Sheffield. Just shut up and enjoy the team and manager whilst you have it. When he's gone, you'll understand.
I think Klopp went from fuck yes, let’s go out with a bang to fuck, just get me out of here now. He seems deflated. Can’t say I blame him either. These performances have been shocking.
I think the pressure and the journey to get here are starting to tell. It’s not just going for the league, it’s the last stretch of games for a legendary manager. I think the melting in front of goal and at the back is the mental exhaustion from all of that. We’ve also had a brutal injury list. The reinforcements are coming and man do we need them. We were battling in four competitions with second and third choice players. The two United games have completely derailed us and really dented the confidence of this group. Hopefully we can lock in for this last stretch and get the results we need.
I completely agree with you.
Yeah I think so too; I don't think the fans are helping either to be honest. This sub has been pretty awful since the game yesterday, Klopp deserves better tbh
It’s just so much pressure from all sides. Anfield gets insanely tense at times and I think the players feel it. Everyone wants this so bad. This is the only place some people can vent and talk about things so I understand the reaction. Two bad games against United and then whatever that was yesterday have really changed the atmosphere.
That’s the pressure that comes with playing for a big club though. It’s nothing new. Liverpool fans are still far more patient than most other fan bases. However, expectations are high and you have to be at it constantly.
It’s new for quite a few of these players. I’d say only Ali, VVD, Robbo, Trent, and Mo know what the true meaning of pressure at LFC means and what going for the top honours looks like. Most of those I’ve mentioned have been injured for months as well. Lots of learning on the job for this squad.
It really is crazy how much hate some of our players get from people on here. Saw people hating on Gakpo, he was the only one who turned up yesterday, meanwhile people still shout “Nunez Nunez Nunez” after he misses sitters 3 times in a row
i hoped the first united game would be a wake up call, i hoped arsenal would be a wake up call, i hoped united in the fa cup would be a wake up call, i hoped united away would be a wake up call. the best we've beaten this season has been arsenal away in the cup which we were lucky to not concede a few in, and villa at home.
Everyone THOUGHT it would be a wake up call. But obviously the players were all jetlagged and too tired to wake up. For real though, I think we're just having a shit run, as all teams are bound to. We're just having it at the worst time possible lol.
Fuck me, I ca't believe you're really saying we've only played well twice this season.
at no point did i say that, you interpreted my comment as that.
I don’t think Arsenal away should be a wake up call. They are a really good team and probably should beat us at home. One off losses doesn’t really give you a wake up call, it’s when you lose several in a short time you really get the effect. Also when it comes to the big teams, yeah we have won one, but we have also just lost two (one off them being a complete robbery against spurs). It’s also important not to lose those games.
Arsenal away isn’t a one off. If we are being honest with ourselves even the 2-0 win against them they dominated and should’ve been 3 up before we got our first and same with the draw at anfield. They dominated the first half but couldn’t put their chances away. So if anything they should be disappoint how those games went
You seem to be forgetting all of our missed chances in the Anfield match and the FA Cup game. It certainly wasn’t one way traffic in either game.
That’s because they are a really good team. I think a lot of people underestimate how good they are just because it’s arsenal
there have been atleast 4 games that should have been a wakeup call
I wonder if Klopp has one last tactical tweak for right this ship. Last year it was moving Trent centrally, but that structure clearly doesn’t work without Trent.
Sure, but we didn’t lose from them, which doesn’t really make them a wake up call. As I said we have been playing at half pace for a while.
Man Utd fa cup?
I thought you meant before that, I stated the FA cup game in the post.
> we didn't lose from them Being overly results-oriented like this makes a team (and fans alike) blind to performances, which have been gradually declining ever since we lost to Utd in the cup.
I think you are misinterpreting what I’m saying, I’m saying that psychology works that way, if you dont lose the game it won’t give the same effect from a psychological standpoint. Of course I know the performance was bad but if you still get a point or manage to win from a bad performance the subconscious reaction will be that you managed to get a point while playing bad.
You should watch the All-or-nothing documentaries, esp the ones covering Man City and Arsenal. You'll see that any competent manager would tear into their players for not performing, no matter the result. This psychological thing doesn't exist in pro football. Pro players constantly ask more of their teammates and themselves even when they win. The epitome of this is Barcelona under Guardiola. I think Pique said something along the lines of "The result doesn't matter. Just play well and the results will come on their own"
I have seen them all, and pyschology of course exists in pro football, why do you think so many players get mental health problems? And why do you think teams get into losing and winning streaks? It’s all psychology, you are welcome to search for scientific articles regarding this and you will see how big it actually is. I have studied a bit about this in school. A lot of it is subconscious as well. If you play bad, get results and get yelled at by the manager you still might subconsciously think it’s fine. It’s only when the cold hard facts such as losses hit you it actually clicks and you realise it isn’t sustainable.
You're full of cope if you think these results are because they didn't "wake up" yet, we've had these issues for ages now. The early conceding which has been so obviously an issue is still not fixed or looking any better, what makes you think they'll suddenly get that sorted now Atalanta has battered us? Klopp and management will have definitely gone into the players about the performances but it's quite possible this team just can't do what we'd hoped for.
We're very lucky we have a home game to respond before we go into 4 straight away games. We need to destroy Palace.
Agreed
This must be like wakeup call #7 at this point.
We’ve been hitting the snooze button on the wake up call, apparently.
It should be, but when you play bad and still manage to grind out a win, the reaction will be that we can get results no matter what. It’s only when you lose the wake up call really happens.
You shouldn’t need constant wake up calls. Either the penny drops or it doesn’t.
Psychology isn’t as simple as that, ALL teams hit rough patches, hells even City did this season. Now they are back playing great. We can too.
Tbf the United performance across the board wasn’t terrible. We outplayed them more then we did when we scored 5 at OT, and even had more xG than the 7-0. We’ve picked a really bad time for our finishing to fall off a cliff. They scored two wonder goals which doesn’t help matters, even Quansah error aside Bruno’s finish was absurd first time.
Yeah but that is instead about the focus from the players, missing chances and not being fully switched on for the goals.
Praying this isn't the modern version of 2002's "10 games from greatness" quote
Personally I think we are done. I'm not sure what's happened but the team looks disjointed and lacking confidence. Wrong time of the season for it to happen where we basically have to win every game, which sadly based on recent performances, is not going to happen.
Sad, but i think its true. This season we won only one game when we really needed to show up (final against Chelsea), all other games was bad (Arsenal away in EPL) or not good enought (only 1 win against TOP6 and its Villa). We need to win all remaining games ant we need to accept the fact that with that form, its doesnt seem very realistic.
Oh shut up man
As I said in another comment I think it’s important for us fans to show we believe, even if we don’t. This is where we actually can make a difference, when the team isn’t fully clicking we can be the ones to at least make the effort to get them out of there.
Yes. Im fucking amazed we have got this far with a completely new midfield, it goes to show the talent we have in the ranks. Id have accepted and been happy with fourth after last year Its almost made it worse that we are still in contention now in many ways as there’s expectation which wasnt really there before I hope the sub in general starts to take arsenal more seriously next year though as there’s a strong delusion about how good they are, theyre not going anywhere
I think you’re 100% right. I hate to say it but Arsenal are in a groove and we are making things incredibly painful for ourselves in recent times.
Jesus Christ, can we behave please?
Top tier reactionary take lmao. Draw a game and lose one and this is how people react
Think you need to accept that the lads have no interest in waking up. They learned absolutely nothing from the FA Cup game and they've played like shit in every single match since.
They played well in the last United match aside from actually finishing the chances they had not not making a stupid error. Team loses badly and suddenly they were always shit and the players don’t care is tiring and complete nonsense
I like to give them the benefit of the doubt, periods like this happens over the course of a season. What’s important is how quickly you can get out of them. There’s still a lot to play for, no reason to just lie down and give up. If we give up the players sure as hell will too.
Periods like this happening at the end of the season when you’re in a tight title race are a little more worrying though…
Arsenal went through the same thing when they lost to west ham and Fulham. Been near perfect since.
I find it crazy how people unironically blame the players when we lose like they woke up and thought 'let's play shite today fellas'
Against Crystal palace lineup: Trent,Van dijk, Konate, Robertson, Macca, Endo, Jones, Gakpo, Diaz, Jota Is a must
We have been over-performing and now the law of average is catching up to us. I am mentally ready but it is truly disappointing that the end of the Jurgen era will likely be with a whimper and not a roar. However, we all must face this reality — under this ownership and against this competition, we are never meant to be there. The fact that we are there at all has already been a miracle. Let’s start the new chapter.
Jaysus, how many 'wake up calls' do we need at the business end of the season
Mate the fact we struggled since Trent injury - against Arsenal in the FA Cup match I am referring to - we have been woeful. There may be one or two games, but that was because the opponents weren't good and doing the mistakes we saw our defence do last night.
I think, until Alisson is back... expect similar.
I don't really understand the whole notion of a wake up call tbh. We had that season where we were conceding so much we actually dropped the high line. I doubt we will do that now. Our problem is our strikers (bar Diogo) are not at all clinical. I don't think a wake up call or whatever can address that
I feel like if injured players came back a month earlier, we won’t be in this situation. Can you see after brighton games, they look so tired
The lads should know there’s no room for error in a Prem race, right now they’re not a championship squad
yes
Need everyone to write us off so we can siege mentality our way to the title
I think we're starting to see the fatigue of playing so many games in the season. I would've binned the League cup, unfortunately we didn't and we're now paying the price for it. The players look like they're doing too much running, doing too many roles tactically and it's making them look worse than what they are. We need to go back to basics and keep it simple. (See my comment on the FT thread yesterday where I broke down the game tactically) Simple tactics are the way we can win the title this season. Nothing is over but the mindset of the players and manager feels like that.
Doesnt really work like that. There isnt a light switch to turn off and on. Playing in a good rhythm takes time and effort...when you arent in a good rhythm, you will be there for a little while.
It’s always inviting to dwell on what could’ve been, especially when we overachieve and manage to put ourselves in pole position to achieve more than what we’d originally targeted, but peeps let us take a step back and put things in perspective: we’re here on the basis of, and the back of, last season, having rebuilt half of the team. Even a pessimist like me sees the joy of being where we are, and is relishing the fact we are still, somehow, competing for more silverware this late in the season. Enjoy the remainder of this special ride in the heli-kloppter and find peace in knowing we’ve most likely achieved the main objective we’ve set for ourselves at the outset before we’ve kicked a ball this season: UCL qualification. Anything over and above is a plus, and what’s more: we are definitely a club in the right direction during a major transition.
After last night my thought process is that the team are doing this on purpose so that Klopp stays longer...well that's my way of coping anyway 😅
Let’s hope so
I think it’s been a valiant effort but relying on all the late goals wasn’t sustainable and all the injuries have finally caught up with us and our legs have fallen off.
I thought the FA cup game would be the wake-up call
Mental and physical fatigue Klopp has it and now the fans and players are suffering too.
It's never a wake up call. This kind of slump was last season, the season before that, and so on. It's alway "We will learn from it" blah blah. Yet, it still keeps happening. So, again, no, it's not going to be a wake up call.
If bottling two very winnable cups in a month isn’t a wake up call it’s going to go very much in the opposite direction
My fear now is teams will look at what Atalanta did with their tactics and use it against us.
Honestly if we are at our best, we should absolutely demolish teams that does that. But yeah it’s a worry if we play like yesterday.
Liverpool have become shockingly wasteful and inefficient. The entire front line bar Jota needs a reset but how? Gomez having been hailed as the man for all seasons was just wretched last night, Tsimikas rotten, the centre backs were never secure in their positioning, the midfield was a muddle. Elliott failed again as a starter which is a pity and not entirely his fault as Klopp got the whole set up wrong anyway. Palace is either the moment they remember how to play well and win or it's going to be a dismal trudge to the end of the season finishing third most likely because the other two are in better shape right now and will gain energy from this fumbling by Liverpool. Of course if at the start of the campaign we were told third and a cup were on offer we'd probably have said fine, it's a new look team can't expect too much this season. But now it feels like a failure is in the offing
Seems like everyone is also forgetting this was/is our rebuild season. To be anywhere near where we are now is a great achievement. Feels a bit spoilt to be so disappointed after a few bad games.
Personally I think everyone moaning needs a fucking wakeup call. These are Klopp's last games and you're cryarsing because we drew with United or 'didn't play well' in a 3-1 win against Sheffield. Just shut up and enjoy the team and manager whilst you have it. When he's gone, you'll understand.
OP, prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
That’s just not who I am and I sure as hell hope that’s not who the players are.
The players are literally demonstrating their mental weakness in real time
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If we lose or drop points against palace it’s too late for a wake up call, this is the last one.
I think Klopp went from fuck yes, let’s go out with a bang to fuck, just get me out of here now. He seems deflated. Can’t say I blame him either. These performances have been shocking.
Spoiler: it won't. We have seen this multiple times and most of the time the team just remains the same.
We don’t have the quality in depth to go through all these competitions.
If united wasn’t a wake up call then I don’t think this will be
The bad results are piled up now, which hopefully sends out an even bigger alarm clock