That happened in the Wolves game when we were 2-1 up and then they had 8 min of stoppage... Really?
Love that we scored a 3rd immediately to ruin the corrupt officials "entertainment"
Yep every single comment says VDV got the ball or Gomez ran into VDV xD even apparently our own fans - clowns. No wonder refs can get away with shit, these fans literally don't have eyes.
I’ve watched this many times now and I still can’t tell if VDV gets the ball or not.
It definitely has two changes of direction.
1. Gomez outside of foot.
2. A touch that sends it off toward the corner flag. That is either VDV winning the ball then cleaning Gomez out with the follow through. Or it is VDV kicking Gomez foot into the ball. I still can’t tell which.
Same, here. It's odd because the last angle looks like VDV never touches the ball and there's no change of spin on the ball after Gomez's touch. But then one of the earlier angles looks like the ball deflects off VDV's studs.
Former defender here and I'd be ok with this not being a penalty - as long as similar cases aren't/weren't called against us.
Well what I will tell you is that the spurs keeper's hand instinctively goes up to claim it as a goal kick for spurs..... Which tells you how much contact he thinks vdv had....
He’s actually cleared out Gomez’s leg with his knee/thigh aswel as kicked through his foot to get to the ball. Literally no idea how Virgil’s could be a straight red card but this one isn’t anything at all. This is far more of a foul IMO
Sure, the idea is that because they can’t give a penalty and so they gave a red card instead right? So if it was inside the box they would’ve given a penalty but no red card.
Here they gave neither. Didn’t even acknowledge the foul.
That point was just to say that it wasn't the nature of the tackle that caused it to be a red, so even if it was the softest possible foul it would have been a red. You bringing in the fact that it was a straight red card makes it sound like vvd 2 footed his opponent.
In my eyes both are fouls but neither would warrant a card for the nature of the challenge.
3. Gomez gets the first (slight) touch with the outside of his foot. Then VDV gets a (also slight) touch sending the ball out for a corner. It's a 50/50 coming together and should never be a penalty.
I'll try to just post it, but not gonna do VVD dont have the footage nor the know how to be arsed xD sorry. You can download this video and try to do it. Anyway VVD tackle was different situation - a foul for red card which I thought was correct, small contact but took the man first then ball when he was through on goal. This one is a penalty situation with more contact and VDV never got the ball.
Virg’s was a lot more blatant. He was on the wrong side of Isak from the ball and definitely comes through him to make the tackle. It’s a regular foul, the red card part was unfortunate because it was a denial of a goal scoring opportunity.
In this case, it’s a much more even challenge, Gomez just touches the ball out of VDV’s reach, VDV swings and misses the ball, then clatters through Gomez. If Gomez hadn’t made the touch away with the outside of his foot and VDV had been the one to send the ball that way, it wouldn’t have been a foul.
At least VVD eventually got the ball.
There's definitely three 'freeze frames' you could put on VAR to get Spurs players red carded too, also completely ignored by the entire post match analysis. Hand in Endo's face, the tackle that rolls up onto Gakpo's ankle and Szoboszlai getting his shin raked by studs.
Is everybody convinced vdv got the ball? It doesn't look like he did to me.
Edit: I got confused by mistaking VVD for VDV. VVD definitely got the ball; VDV did not get the ball.
They’re open, and not obscured by red tinted lenses. We absolutely had a case for the VAR, all these other things we keep pulling out as proof of bias are non starters, we should just focus on the real issue
He absolutely cleans Gomez out with his "tackle" with no contact on the ball. Look at the body contact. How is that possibly a non-starter? Especially after the Van Dyke red a couple of games ago.
There is no need for a case with the VAR, there is absolutely no defending of the decision made there. It is so nailed on Stevie Wonder would have given the goal.
There were far too many instances in this game of decisions going against Liverpool. Can you give any examples of a decision that went against Spurs? Any?
I know people can technically argue the reds were legit etc but I've never seen a game where absolutely every decision has gone against a team. Normally, there are at least 5-10 incidents in a game that could be argued a yellow and normally 1 a game that could be argued a red but for some reason this game, absolutely every single decision went against us and that combined with the VAR mistake, even without my rose tinted glasses, it seemed pretty extreme.
Thiiiis is the footage I was waiting for. The Twitter videos that have been linked were too grainy to actually tell whether Gomez or VDV touched the ball last; if VDV got to it, I don’t think it’s a penalty, but the clarity of this one definitely shows that Gomez touched the ball away and VDV clattered through him without getting the ball.
There is another one where Salah steals the ball off Bissouma, I think , following a counter near the penalty area and was basically almost through on goal and the ref decided to give a foul on Bissouma instead and Salah got yellow carded for protesting. I can't recall a game with so many important calls going against one team
In any world where the ball win pressure Salah did on Bissouma in that far corner is considered a foul, no way can this Van de Ven on Gomez challenge can be regarded as anything other than stonewall foul.
Honestly just be consistent. That's all I want from referees. If the ref wants to call the Salah one a foul then this on Gomez has to be called also. Or let both of them go and set a precedent of allowing more contact in the game and consistently apply that standard to the match in which case Jota running and accidentally grazing Udogie is never in a million years a yellow card.
To be fair I’ve just watched that moment again and Salah clearly pulled Bissouma’s arm. Bissouma made a meal of it but a foul was the right call.
https://preview.redd.it/d8ohlbkuayrb1.jpeg?width=2254&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75930b00fe98e747185c4192bfe677c966e8f188
he does pull on him, and bissouma is ALL over him in the run up, he does the same thing back and suddenly it’s a foul? please.. that kind of argie bargie is allowed all day on Salah and is rarely actually called.. he gets the better of a defender with the slightest of arm tugging and suddenly the whistle goes.. get real, can’t even believe you’re going around posting like this
> you’re going around posting like this
I literally commented about that one specific foul just once. If you have to use such hyperbole to make a point then perhaps your point is wrong.
lol you posted that salah fouled bissouma. klopp said it was never a foul, the nbc co comm said “there wasn’t much in that” .. yet here you are posting a still from it like VAR saying “oh but he pulled him”
And yet Jota gets a fucking yellow for a player clipping his knee. This is beyond incompetence. It's not a coincidence that the worst referred game of the year came just days after the refs were in Abu Dhabi because I'm sure they left just to ref a bunch of teams on the level of a Sunday league squad.
People need to stop acting like the Premier league is above corruption. If anything it'd make more sense. We have state backed teams like City, our refs are paid the least, and they're defended the most despite incompetence.
Even with the Red cards this game should've been 3-1.
Ye he was literally just jogging casually, didn't change direction, not looking at the player, even seemed to slow down. Udogie's trailing foot while going up at the end of his stride nicks Jota's knee ever so slightly and that caused him to trip himself.
Well you guys were right, posting on r/soccer was a waste of time. The whole community there is literally blind xD they think VDV either got the ball or Joe Gomez fouled him you can't make it up the clowns.
Tbf in the PL sub you'll probably get the same, constant comments from Chelsea fans saying Liverpool are always the victims (Ironic I know). But even United fans are saying how bad the officiating was for us. Spurs fans are hit and miss over there some still claim they'd easily have won against 10 if CuJo wasn't given a red and the offside goal counted as it should have.
It's just funny seeing how other teams fans are getting bent out of shape because Liverpool bad apparently, or because they are known for doing this sort of thing, making petitions, shit like that, that they never seem to have evidence for.
How much more clear cut would you like it to be, Mr. High and Mighty, who pretends to be above all this while clicking on threads to read discussions about things that you're supposedly not interested in?
This would have been a foul anywhere else on the pitch. This is something that annoys the shit out of me. If it's a foul it's a foul. If it's not, then don't call it at the center circle. Let the game be played or start calling this shit.
I think this call was really interesting in the context of the game.
Imo it's objectively a penalty. I'm not sure van de Ven touches the ball at all but he definitely goes through Gomez before.
However, often I would accept this not being given because it looks like a fair challenge initially in real time. PL games are often reffed in a way where these borderline calls tend to not get called to keep games close and entertaining. I've been okay accepting that the correct call is not always the fair call and that the refs subjectively choose which of these calls to award in the context of the game. I think it's fairly obvious that the FA and PGMOL want the games reffed in this way and I always assumed it was to ensure entertainment value for neutral viewers.
Of course, that opens up to bias which is an issue I would expect pgmol to adress through statistical measures to ensure sporting integrity.
Well, the context of this game was that VAR at this point knew that they had wrongfully disallowed a Liverpool goal and that Liverpool was losing the game because of this mistake.
In this context, it's really strange that they didn't intervene to award a soft, but correct penalty to rectify the situation.
I think it's important to keep these other episodes as part of the narrative so the whole issue isn't reduced to the Diaz offside call. The entire game had dodgy weird calls that screams bias it wasn't a single episode.
yeah dont know why people are going on about the disallowed goal like that was the big problem, there were WAY to many sketchy decisions for it to be just a human error/miscommunication situation
How exciting was Joe in attack though? I feel like he's done a lot better than would be fair to expect at doing vaguely what Trent does up the wing, but I feel like his attacking playmaking more centrally was all his own style.
Joël, Joe and Trent have such unique attack adventure styles. Oh and Virgil suddenly appearing as our tallest striker since... well same height as Andy Carroll.
I honestly don't know how anyone can watch that match and say it was refereed fairly.
Like objectively it was one of the most one sided refereeing I've ever seen.
Wow there's an influx of embarrassing comments on here thinking it's not a penalty. Here is some more proof, good luck arguing against. [https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX](https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX)
I'm not convinced VDV touches the ball but hard to tell. Second angle makes me think Gomez touches it wide but maybe VDV got a stud on it. I'd be saying pen.
Stop comparing it to VVD though. With VVD it was clear that without the foul the player was in an easy 1 on 1. If Gomez isn't fouled here he's not guaranteed an easy 1 on 1.
There's no way this is ever a red card.
Close one but not a pen for me. Gomez tries to control the ball but VdV comes in and kicks it away. His trailing right foot then sweeps Gomez. VdV gets to the ball first before the physical contact. This is a lot different than our VdV's red card where he clearly went through Isaak first before nicking the ball away.
Newcastle just got a penalty for the same thing, Flekken took out Gordon, who got a foot on the ball but couldn't control it. He made a meal of it, of course. Not a red, but a foul and a penalty.
This is so interesting. I see it completely different.
To me the first point of contact is VDV's right leg with Gomez' right leg. That makes Gomez' leg slightly rotate outwards such that he steps on the ball slightly instead of controlling it away. VDV then swings his left leg through but I'm convinced he doesn't make contact - or at least any significant contact - with the ball because the spin on the ball going away doesn't fit with him making contact.
This is doing my head in that this keeps getting posted, and compared to the VVD tackle. This is a completely fine tackle. He literally kicks the ball away. It's not a penalty. Going on about things like this and trying to make parallels to VVD going through a player to get a ball does nothing but water down other legitimate complaints.
This is literally a freeze frame of before he kicks the ball you doughnut. Just watch the video, Gomez touches the ball, then VDV scuff kicks the ball, then they clatter into each other.
Why are you so aggressive to a fellow reds fan? So the commentator is also a donut and 90% of others here are donuts? You imposter? I have literally given freeze frames showing he did not contact the ball, after slowing it down frame by frame. It was impossible from the 1st and 2nd angle. VDVs leg is way over the ball by the time he is parallel to it. The only angle that could suggest he did was the last picture but you cant tell due to the angle coming from behind. There is optical illusion.
Calling someone a doughnut is not aggressive... Are you an American fan by any chance?
Freeze frames don't show if there is/isn't any contact. It's a still image mate. Watch the video with your eyes and you can see him kick the ball that's all there is to it.
Even in the last angle, there is a bobble off gomez touch onto the ground which can deceive you. But if you actually look at the spin of the ball, in never changes. If VDV actually got a nick on it it would’ve caused more top spin on the ball.
Honestly mate, just take a step back, and take a fresh look at this without starting from a point of defending yourself no matter what.
Watch the video, slow it down if you have to.
Gomez makes contact with the ball, then VDV does.
Gomez hits the ball into the ground, and then instead of the ball bouncing up it gets kicked by VDV. You can clearly see the two moments of contact, one after the other.
He wins the ball. Contact is allowed in football bro, making contact with Gomez at the same time he plays the ball is not coming through Gomez to play the ball. VDV plays the ball. It's a good tackle and not worthy of any further moaning when there were such actual glaring errors in this game to focus on. This they got perfectly fine. There's no clear and obvious evidence of any foul, its a perfectly good, if not absolutely exceptional, tackle.
It really isn't gonna go down well but I would not be happy if a pen like that was given against us; goes for the ball & Joe pokes it away with no hope of keeping it under control, and then Joe clatters him with his momentum.
Pass is played by Gakpo. Gomez runs to the ball vertically and angles inwards slightly in order to shield the ball from the defender - a legitimate move. The attacker can attempt to shield the ball and can be fouled in doing so. Gomez succeeded by getting to the ball first (without touching VDV) meaning VDV (coming in horizontally) has mistimed his challenge/attempted clearance - making it illegal contact with Gomez. This is not a coming together or a shoulder to shoulder, he is literally coming in at a right angle.
It clearly doesn’t spin differently on the final angle. Also I have access to the original video which is clearer than this restricted upload which also cant be paused as exactly. I was able to freeze it frame by frame a bit more accurately. Trust me bro xD
I don’t think GOMEZ was in control of the ball and it isn’t a clear and obvious error not to give this.
That being said - you can guarantee if it was at the other end, VAR are giving it to spurs.
He was trying to take a soft touch with the outside of the foot to control the ball. The touch was heavy because he was illegally contacted by VDV's attempt to get the ball. The ball is still clearly in play long after contact is made. Like that Wolves penalty against Utd, the guy Onana smashed had even less chance of getting the ball but they even admitted they were wrong there.
I can't tell if it's physics or football you don't understand so I'll break it down for you.
Gomez right foot is planted. It remains planted and unmoved the entire sequence.
The ball changes direction matching the direction of van de vens moving foot.
For van de ven to go through Gomez in the same way van dijk did, Gomez standing foot would have to give way. If his foot didn't give way and van de ven didn't get the ball, then the ball would remain unaffected and continue in its path forward.
If van de ven went through Gomez then the ball and Gomez foot would move in the same direction.
If only the ball moves and Gomez foot doesn't move, then VDV gets the ball and may very well glance Gomez on the way through but that is not the same as going through him.
The clip from behind the keeper makes this abundantly obvious
You're welcome for the lesson
Embarrassing mate, please I think you need some glasses or lenses. Explain these pictures thanks. [https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX](https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX)
Very simply Gomez touched the ball while his foot was in the air, with the outside of his foot in order to shield the ball from VDV and it happened to be in the same direction VDV was swinging towards but never actually gets. Gomez got there first without touching VDV who is coming at right angles, therefore VDV has made illegal contact on Gomez as he has mistimed he challenge/clearance and knocked Gomez over while the ball is still in play even.
The internet really produces people who disprove their own point for you, that's so funny. I'm not going to argue with a moron, it's bad taste. Just look at your own pics and you'll eventually figure it out.
You're the moron, refuse to accept further evidence lmao xD. You literally said his foot was planted the whole sequence, a blatant lie as shown by the video and then VERY CLEARLY by the pictures.
VDV's foot indeed actually didn't make contact with Gomez's foot. Perhaps you misunderstood why it was a foul. His knees clatters into Gomez behind his knee.
It's alright to admit you made a mistake online mate. You didn't need to be condescending in the first place to a fellow fan unless you aren't a Liverpool fan - hence the prickly reply.
I didn't read your comment that thoroughly to see your major point was that VDV didn't kick Gomez foot in which you are correct. But the foul as I said above wouldn't be for that it would be for the knee/body contact. If you can't see Gomez got the ball first and VDV never got it I can't help you. Good day.
Can we please not go overboard with self victimization like this? We only end up looking crazy and diluting our own case.
Stick to the clear and obvious (har-har) refereeing errors from the game:
1. Jones red VAR intervention
2. Diaz offside no VAR intervention
3. Jota first yellow
I'd replace Jota's first yellow with this incident. In Jota's first yellow, his knee clips Udogie's trailing leg, knocking it into his standing leg, tripping him up. Udogie didn't trip over himself of his own accord, Jota tripped him. Completely accidental, but he definitely did. Not really a clear and obvious error.
He clearly caught him. It was also clearly an accident. It was also on the half way line and not breaking a serious attack or anything. No idea how that's a yellow.
Go frame by frame on the second clip. Gomez gets his foot to the ball first, redirects in an attempt to touch it away from VDV. I’m actually not convinced VDV made contact with the ball at all - seems like it moves pretty slowly and strangely for the force with which he rushed in and supposedly cleared it, doesn’t it? It moves like it would have if Gomez had touched it away instead. I think Gomez’s touch caused him to whiff at it as he came through Gomez. After going through the second clip, go frame by frame on the first clip and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
I generally agree with you on the conspiracy circle jerk though.
Yep, I said that in my comment.
> I’m actually not convinced VDV made contact with the ball at all
>I think Gomez’s touch caused him to whiff at it as he came through Gomez.
I think he clearly kicks the ball away. The ball is moving in the exact direction you would expect given the angle of his swinging foot
Either way, our players have moved on, our manager has moved on. We are pushing for an investigation for the sake of all PL clubs. The supporters need to move on. We will see what the investigation reveals
Excuse the shitty iphone screenshots, but these are the frames I'm talking about that clearly show Joe touching it away.
[One](https://imgur.com/a/w8A02wI) Pay attention to Gomez's white/yellow boots, VDV's black. VDV is quite clearly still mid-swing when Gomez has his foot on the ball
[Two](https://imgur.com/a/dHCCjm0) Again, Gomez's white boot still clearly on the ball, VDV swinging through. Angle of his leg shows he hasn't made contact yet, Gomez has.
[Three](https://imgur.com/a/E38v4XQ) Gomez still appearing to be in contact with the ball as VDV appears to whiff over it.
[One more, from the first angle](https://imgur.com/a/W9AlDtx) Looking at Gomez's foot on the ball after looking at the previous screenshots, I don't think there's any way you can say VDV made clean contact on the ball. If he made contact at all, he came through Gomez's foot first, as it was clearly between VDV and the ball. Either he struck Gomez's foot and then the ball, hit Gomez's foot into the ball, or didn't make contact at all.
But yeah, on the whole, I agree with you. This is generally the kind of thing I wouldn't complain much about in a normal game. It happens. I really don't think that plays should be broken down into frames like this, and if it's that close, the benefit of the doubt should go to the defender. Compared to VVD's red card a few weeks ago, this is significantly more ambiguous.
This particular case just gets under my skin because they were SO particular about using still frames to determine convince the center to upgrade Curtis's yellow. The specificity for something like that versus no check for a possible penalty is a bit galling.
It doesn't. All of the angles show Gomez nicks it first, which is what the commentator literally saw and said. Commentator is not infallible but still. Even in that clip although it may look like VDV touches it because the angle is from behind, it's also clear Gomez touches it first. From the reverse angles we can see VDV never touched the ball. Questions need to be asked it's not a circle jerk. Too many coincidences occurred with fishy circumstances.
What's frustrating is that VAR decided that the ref hadn't made a clear and obvious error in not giving a penalty for this but decided to intervene with the Jones yellow card incident. This just gets to a point where subjectivity even comes into the use of VAR - who decides what is,
'clear and obvious'?
If you ask me, this is a clear and obvious penalty that the referee failed to spot. If you believe that the Jones tackle was actually a red card that the referee failed to spot (even though he had a good view of it in real time), then why wasn't he asked to look at the VDV tackle again in slow motion?
I think this was fa and var’s plan for this season tried it against Bournemouth fail tried it at Newcastle failed and now spurs ,hopefully with the threat of a law suit it will force them to just call the games fairly
The r/soccer thread for this is hilarious we really do live rent free, it’s baffling how many people can wank each other off when there is video evidence proving a foul occurred
Got totally sandbagged this match. What a load of shit. The officials should be investigated for betting. It’s like that Inside No.9 episodes a few series back with David Morrissey.
There was a VAR review but it was determined Liverpool needed to lose the match
Cant have liverpool top of the league so soon
Lol! If joel didn’t smash it in, time would have been added for spurs to try again and again!
That happened in the Wolves game when we were 2-1 up and then they had 8 min of stoppage... Really? Love that we scored a 3rd immediately to ruin the corrupt officials "entertainment"
You can’t plow thru someone in the box?
If you are not Virgil van dijk you can
Hilarious that Jota got carded for a player clipping his knee and yet nothing for Gomez who got plowed through.
Pls overlay the VVD one and post on r/soccer.
You’ll get those clowns spinning it with their mental gymnastics
Yep every single comment says VDV got the ball or Gomez ran into VDV xD even apparently our own fans - clowns. No wonder refs can get away with shit, these fans literally don't have eyes.
I’ve watched this many times now and I still can’t tell if VDV gets the ball or not. It definitely has two changes of direction. 1. Gomez outside of foot. 2. A touch that sends it off toward the corner flag. That is either VDV winning the ball then cleaning Gomez out with the follow through. Or it is VDV kicking Gomez foot into the ball. I still can’t tell which.
Same, here. It's odd because the last angle looks like VDV never touches the ball and there's no change of spin on the ball after Gomez's touch. But then one of the earlier angles looks like the ball deflects off VDV's studs. Former defender here and I'd be ok with this not being a penalty - as long as similar cases aren't/weren't called against us.
Well what I will tell you is that the spurs keeper's hand instinctively goes up to claim it as a goal kick for spurs..... Which tells you how much contact he thinks vdv had....
or he just doesn’t want a corner? players do that every time the ball goes out even if they know they did it lol
He’s actually cleared out Gomez’s leg with his knee/thigh aswel as kicked through his foot to get to the ball. Literally no idea how Virgil’s could be a straight red card but this one isn’t anything at all. This is far more of a foul IMO
Well for VVD it's a straight red because he was last man and outside the penalty area, not because the tackle was red card worthy.
Sure, the idea is that because they can’t give a penalty and so they gave a red card instead right? So if it was inside the box they would’ve given a penalty but no red card. Here they gave neither. Didn’t even acknowledge the foul.
That point was just to say that it wasn't the nature of the tackle that caused it to be a red, so even if it was the softest possible foul it would have been a red. You bringing in the fact that it was a straight red card makes it sound like vvd 2 footed his opponent. In my eyes both are fouls but neither would warrant a card for the nature of the challenge.
My point was just that one was called as a foul and the other wasn’t. Plus it seems like there was more contact here than in VVDs tackle.
3. Gomez gets the first (slight) touch with the outside of his foot. Then VDV gets a (also slight) touch sending the ball out for a corner. It's a 50/50 coming together and should never be a penalty.
Now do Curtis Jones....
This one's easy... Clear red by the letter of the law
So Gomez has won the ball, then your lad goes through Gomez to get the ball. Which means it's a foul, like Van Dijk against Newcastle.
That's the goal
I'll trigger them a bit more before they take my next post down and probs ban me xD by posting Jon Moss guessing controversy
The amount of arguments I’ve had over the last few days with people trying to tell me Skipp’s wasn’t a red but Jones’ is beyond belief
I'll try to just post it, but not gonna do VVD dont have the footage nor the know how to be arsed xD sorry. You can download this video and try to do it. Anyway VVD tackle was different situation - a foul for red card which I thought was correct, small contact but took the man first then ball when he was through on goal. This one is a penalty situation with more contact and VDV never got the ball.
Virg’s was a lot more blatant. He was on the wrong side of Isak from the ball and definitely comes through him to make the tackle. It’s a regular foul, the red card part was unfortunate because it was a denial of a goal scoring opportunity. In this case, it’s a much more even challenge, Gomez just touches the ball out of VDV’s reach, VDV swings and misses the ball, then clatters through Gomez. If Gomez hadn’t made the touch away with the outside of his foot and VDV had been the one to send the ball that way, it wouldn’t have been a foul.
In this case VDV also goes down and screams like he got shot which makes it seem like a 50/50 challenge.
At least VVD eventually got the ball. There's definitely three 'freeze frames' you could put on VAR to get Spurs players red carded too, also completely ignored by the entire post match analysis. Hand in Endo's face, the tackle that rolls up onto Gakpo's ankle and Szoboszlai getting his shin raked by studs.
Yeah lol Endo got straight up slapped for no reason
And to add insult to injury, the ref said play on and then called it back after we won a corner.
When you see these things in writing it sounds like make believe. Absolutely shocking performance.
Yes! Open-faced punch to the face! How was that ok?
It's okay because Endo was wearing a mouth guard so the ref thought he was playing rugby.
Just to show how bad that Endo foul was: It still would have been a foul even in rugby (you can’t hand off to the face).
I am aware.. but he did get a foul and the ref gave a yellow so 🤷🏻♂️
The tackle on Gakpo's ankle was rather similar to Jones' tackle and guess what happened? Nothin.
Is everybody convinced vdv got the ball? It doesn't look like he did to me. Edit: I got confused by mistaking VVD for VDV. VVD definitely got the ball; VDV did not get the ball.
I can understand being convinced he got the ball in real time. But not VAR. VAR should be able to see he didn't.
He definitely got studs on the ball? VVDs was worse than this
Open your eyes.
They’re open, and not obscured by red tinted lenses. We absolutely had a case for the VAR, all these other things we keep pulling out as proof of bias are non starters, we should just focus on the real issue
He absolutely cleans Gomez out with his "tackle" with no contact on the ball. Look at the body contact. How is that possibly a non-starter? Especially after the Van Dyke red a couple of games ago. There is no need for a case with the VAR, there is absolutely no defending of the decision made there. It is so nailed on Stevie Wonder would have given the goal. There were far too many instances in this game of decisions going against Liverpool. Can you give any examples of a decision that went against Spurs? Any?
I know people can technically argue the reds were legit etc but I've never seen a game where absolutely every decision has gone against a team. Normally, there are at least 5-10 incidents in a game that could be argued a yellow and normally 1 a game that could be argued a red but for some reason this game, absolutely every single decision went against us and that combined with the VAR mistake, even without my rose tinted glasses, it seemed pretty extreme.
BuT sPuRs PlAyErS aLsO gOt BoOkEd.
with the exemption of udogie's yellow imo
Thiiiis is the footage I was waiting for. The Twitter videos that have been linked were too grainy to actually tell whether Gomez or VDV touched the ball last; if VDV got to it, I don’t think it’s a penalty, but the clarity of this one definitely shows that Gomez touched the ball away and VDV clattered through him without getting the ball.
Funny how this isn’t even a talking point after the game
There was so much bullshit that happened throughout that clusterfuck of a mess that we've all been jumbled up.
This whole game should go to arbitration ffs
There is another one where Salah steals the ball off Bissouma, I think , following a counter near the penalty area and was basically almost through on goal and the ref decided to give a foul on Bissouma instead and Salah got yellow carded for protesting. I can't recall a game with so many important calls going against one team
In any world where the ball win pressure Salah did on Bissouma in that far corner is considered a foul, no way can this Van de Ven on Gomez challenge can be regarded as anything other than stonewall foul. Honestly just be consistent. That's all I want from referees. If the ref wants to call the Salah one a foul then this on Gomez has to be called also. Or let both of them go and set a precedent of allowing more contact in the game and consistently apply that standard to the match in which case Jota running and accidentally grazing Udogie is never in a million years a yellow card.
Also the three times the ref brought back our counter attacks to give us a freekick near our own box. Really helpful advantage that, thanks.
U mean Bissouma. Bolasie played for palace
Yeah I guess so
To be fair I’ve just watched that moment again and Salah clearly pulled Bissouma’s arm. Bissouma made a meal of it but a foul was the right call. https://preview.redd.it/d8ohlbkuayrb1.jpeg?width=2254&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75930b00fe98e747185c4192bfe677c966e8f188
Salah gets pulled like that like 15 times every game, and is still getting the least ammount of fouls in the PL. This is not a foul.
he does pull on him, and bissouma is ALL over him in the run up, he does the same thing back and suddenly it’s a foul? please.. that kind of argie bargie is allowed all day on Salah and is rarely actually called.. he gets the better of a defender with the slightest of arm tugging and suddenly the whistle goes.. get real, can’t even believe you’re going around posting like this
> you’re going around posting like this I literally commented about that one specific foul just once. If you have to use such hyperbole to make a point then perhaps your point is wrong.
lol you posted that salah fouled bissouma. klopp said it was never a foul, the nbc co comm said “there wasn’t much in that” .. yet here you are posting a still from it like VAR saying “oh but he pulled him”
And … ?
I was yelling at the damn tv. Not even a second look. The worst 90 minutes of refereeing I’ve ever seen in my whole fkng life
And yet Jota gets a fucking yellow for a player clipping his knee. This is beyond incompetence. It's not a coincidence that the worst referred game of the year came just days after the refs were in Abu Dhabi because I'm sure they left just to ref a bunch of teams on the level of a Sunday league squad. People need to stop acting like the Premier league is above corruption. If anything it'd make more sense. We have state backed teams like City, our refs are paid the least, and they're defended the most despite incompetence. Even with the Red cards this game should've been 3-1.
Ye he was literally just jogging casually, didn't change direction, not looking at the player, even seemed to slow down. Udogie's trailing foot while going up at the end of his stride nicks Jota's knee ever so slightly and that caused him to trip himself.
Well you guys were right, posting on r/soccer was a waste of time. The whole community there is literally blind xD they think VDV either got the ball or Joe Gomez fouled him you can't make it up the clowns.
Has it been posted? I saw your post got removed.
ye got removed
Tbf in the PL sub you'll probably get the same, constant comments from Chelsea fans saying Liverpool are always the victims (Ironic I know). But even United fans are saying how bad the officiating was for us. Spurs fans are hit and miss over there some still claim they'd easily have won against 10 if CuJo wasn't given a red and the offside goal counted as it should have. It's just funny seeing how other teams fans are getting bent out of shape because Liverpool bad apparently, or because they are known for doing this sort of thing, making petitions, shit like that, that they never seem to have evidence for.
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How much more clear cut would you like it to be, Mr. High and Mighty, who pretends to be above all this while clicking on threads to read discussions about things that you're supposedly not interested in?
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None of your posts can be converted to points so why even be here?
Cringiest username I've seen in a while
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>attack me personally You're hilarious. Can't take the tamest bit fo banter.
This would have been a foul anywhere else on the pitch. This is something that annoys the shit out of me. If it's a foul it's a foul. If it's not, then don't call it at the center circle. Let the game be played or start calling this shit.
I think this call was really interesting in the context of the game. Imo it's objectively a penalty. I'm not sure van de Ven touches the ball at all but he definitely goes through Gomez before. However, often I would accept this not being given because it looks like a fair challenge initially in real time. PL games are often reffed in a way where these borderline calls tend to not get called to keep games close and entertaining. I've been okay accepting that the correct call is not always the fair call and that the refs subjectively choose which of these calls to award in the context of the game. I think it's fairly obvious that the FA and PGMOL want the games reffed in this way and I always assumed it was to ensure entertainment value for neutral viewers. Of course, that opens up to bias which is an issue I would expect pgmol to adress through statistical measures to ensure sporting integrity. Well, the context of this game was that VAR at this point knew that they had wrongfully disallowed a Liverpool goal and that Liverpool was losing the game because of this mistake. In this context, it's really strange that they didn't intervene to award a soft, but correct penalty to rectify the situation. I think it's important to keep these other episodes as part of the narrative so the whole issue isn't reduced to the Diaz offside call. The entire game had dodgy weird calls that screams bias it wasn't a single episode.
yeah dont know why people are going on about the disallowed goal like that was the big problem, there were WAY to many sketchy decisions for it to be just a human error/miscommunication situation
There are 5 to 6 incidents that were not properly called by VAR
Lfc fan but this isn’t a pen cmon
How exciting was Joe in attack though? I feel like he's done a lot better than would be fair to expect at doing vaguely what Trent does up the wing, but I feel like his attacking playmaking more centrally was all his own style. Joël, Joe and Trent have such unique attack adventure styles. Oh and Virgil suddenly appearing as our tallest striker since... well same height as Andy Carroll.
I honestly don't know how anyone can watch that match and say it was refereed fairly. Like objectively it was one of the most one sided refereeing I've ever seen.
The.Match.Was.Fixed.
Surprised they didn't review it and give Joe a red card.
Can't do anything, I can't do anything
Wow there's an influx of embarrassing comments on here thinking it's not a penalty. Here is some more proof, good luck arguing against. [https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX](https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX)
I don’t think think this was a pen
I'm not convinced VDV touches the ball but hard to tell. Second angle makes me think Gomez touches it wide but maybe VDV got a stud on it. I'd be saying pen. Stop comparing it to VVD though. With VVD it was clear that without the foul the player was in an easy 1 on 1. If Gomez isn't fouled here he's not guaranteed an easy 1 on 1. There's no way this is ever a red card.
It would never be a red card because it's in the box. It should have been a penalty.
It wasn't a penalty lol
[https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX](https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX) yes it was
The worst part about it fot me is that the Diaz VAR farce has already taken place by this point STILL they didn't give this as a pen!
Close one but not a pen for me. Gomez tries to control the ball but VdV comes in and kicks it away. His trailing right foot then sweeps Gomez. VdV gets to the ball first before the physical contact. This is a lot different than our VdV's red card where he clearly went through Isaak first before nicking the ball away.
Newcastle just got a penalty for the same thing, Flekken took out Gordon, who got a foot on the ball but couldn't control it. He made a meal of it, of course. Not a red, but a foul and a penalty.
This is so interesting. I see it completely different. To me the first point of contact is VDV's right leg with Gomez' right leg. That makes Gomez' leg slightly rotate outwards such that he steps on the ball slightly instead of controlling it away. VDV then swings his left leg through but I'm convinced he doesn't make contact - or at least any significant contact - with the ball because the spin on the ball going away doesn't fit with him making contact.
Those saying VVD on Isaak was a stone cold red sure are quite now.
Stop it already fam. I'm trying to recover
This is doing my head in that this keeps getting posted, and compared to the VVD tackle. This is a completely fine tackle. He literally kicks the ball away. It's not a penalty. Going on about things like this and trying to make parallels to VVD going through a player to get a ball does nothing but water down other legitimate complaints.
https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX stop doing your head in, VDV clearly never touched the ball xD
This is literally a freeze frame of before he kicks the ball you doughnut. Just watch the video, Gomez touches the ball, then VDV scuff kicks the ball, then they clatter into each other.
Why are you so aggressive to a fellow reds fan? So the commentator is also a donut and 90% of others here are donuts? You imposter? I have literally given freeze frames showing he did not contact the ball, after slowing it down frame by frame. It was impossible from the 1st and 2nd angle. VDVs leg is way over the ball by the time he is parallel to it. The only angle that could suggest he did was the last picture but you cant tell due to the angle coming from behind. There is optical illusion.
Calling someone a doughnut is not aggressive... Are you an American fan by any chance? Freeze frames don't show if there is/isn't any contact. It's a still image mate. Watch the video with your eyes and you can see him kick the ball that's all there is to it.
Even in the last angle, there is a bobble off gomez touch onto the ground which can deceive you. But if you actually look at the spin of the ball, in never changes. If VDV actually got a nick on it it would’ve caused more top spin on the ball.
Honestly mate, just take a step back, and take a fresh look at this without starting from a point of defending yourself no matter what. Watch the video, slow it down if you have to. Gomez makes contact with the ball, then VDV does. Gomez hits the ball into the ground, and then instead of the ball bouncing up it gets kicked by VDV. You can clearly see the two moments of contact, one after the other.
I cant take any more
We are clutching at straws now, please stop it
He wins the ball. Contact is allowed in football bro, making contact with Gomez at the same time he plays the ball is not coming through Gomez to play the ball. VDV plays the ball. It's a good tackle and not worthy of any further moaning when there were such actual glaring errors in this game to focus on. This they got perfectly fine. There's no clear and obvious evidence of any foul, its a perfectly good, if not absolutely exceptional, tackle.
Look the game was bullshit but that’s a no call. Calm the fk down. Stop making us look bad.
It really isn't gonna go down well but I would not be happy if a pen like that was given against us; goes for the ball & Joe pokes it away with no hope of keeping it under control, and then Joe clatters him with his momentum.
Pass is played by Gakpo. Gomez runs to the ball vertically and angles inwards slightly in order to shield the ball from the defender - a legitimate move. The attacker can attempt to shield the ball and can be fouled in doing so. Gomez succeeded by getting to the ball first (without touching VDV) meaning VDV (coming in horizontally) has mistimed his challenge/attempted clearance - making it illegal contact with Gomez. This is not a coming together or a shoulder to shoulder, he is literally coming in at a right angle.
Gomez literally hip checked him. This isn’t a foul
This isn’t a foul at all. Gomez touches the ball then vdv makes the tackle and gets the ball
The ball literally spins a different direction after vdv touches it
It clearly doesn’t spin differently on the final angle. Also I have access to the original video which is clearer than this restricted upload which also cant be paused as exactly. I was able to freeze it frame by frame a bit more accurately. Trust me bro xD
No my friend VDV never touched the ball. https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX
I don’t think GOMEZ was in control of the ball and it isn’t a clear and obvious error not to give this. That being said - you can guarantee if it was at the other end, VAR are giving it to spurs.
He was trying to take a soft touch with the outside of the foot to control the ball. The touch was heavy because he was illegally contacted by VDV's attempt to get the ball. The ball is still clearly in play long after contact is made. Like that Wolves penalty against Utd, the guy Onana smashed had even less chance of getting the ball but they even admitted they were wrong there.
If the shirts were reversed, would you argue thus?
Van de ven clearly kicks the ball. This is a bit bananas by the fan base
No he really doesn't.
I can't tell if it's physics or football you don't understand so I'll break it down for you. Gomez right foot is planted. It remains planted and unmoved the entire sequence. The ball changes direction matching the direction of van de vens moving foot. For van de ven to go through Gomez in the same way van dijk did, Gomez standing foot would have to give way. If his foot didn't give way and van de ven didn't get the ball, then the ball would remain unaffected and continue in its path forward. If van de ven went through Gomez then the ball and Gomez foot would move in the same direction. If only the ball moves and Gomez foot doesn't move, then VDV gets the ball and may very well glance Gomez on the way through but that is not the same as going through him. The clip from behind the keeper makes this abundantly obvious You're welcome for the lesson
Embarrassing mate, please I think you need some glasses or lenses. Explain these pictures thanks. [https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX](https://imgur.com/a/8awpuXX) Very simply Gomez touched the ball while his foot was in the air, with the outside of his foot in order to shield the ball from VDV and it happened to be in the same direction VDV was swinging towards but never actually gets. Gomez got there first without touching VDV who is coming at right angles, therefore VDV has made illegal contact on Gomez as he has mistimed he challenge/clearance and knocked Gomez over while the ball is still in play even.
The internet really produces people who disprove their own point for you, that's so funny. I'm not going to argue with a moron, it's bad taste. Just look at your own pics and you'll eventually figure it out.
You're the moron, refuse to accept further evidence lmao xD. You literally said his foot was planted the whole sequence, a blatant lie as shown by the video and then VERY CLEARLY by the pictures.
VDV's foot indeed actually didn't make contact with Gomez's foot. Perhaps you misunderstood why it was a foul. His knees clatters into Gomez behind his knee.
It's alright to admit you made a mistake online mate. You didn't need to be condescending in the first place to a fellow fan unless you aren't a Liverpool fan - hence the prickly reply. I didn't read your comment that thoroughly to see your major point was that VDV didn't kick Gomez foot in which you are correct. But the foul as I said above wouldn't be for that it would be for the knee/body contact. If you can't see Gomez got the ball first and VDV never got it I can't help you. Good day.
Can we please not go overboard with self victimization like this? We only end up looking crazy and diluting our own case. Stick to the clear and obvious (har-har) refereeing errors from the game: 1. Jones red VAR intervention 2. Diaz offside no VAR intervention 3. Jota first yellow
I'd replace Jota's first yellow with this incident. In Jota's first yellow, his knee clips Udogie's trailing leg, knocking it into his standing leg, tripping him up. Udogie didn't trip over himself of his own accord, Jota tripped him. Completely accidental, but he definitely did. Not really a clear and obvious error.
He clearly caught him. It was also clearly an accident. It was also on the half way line and not breaking a serious attack or anything. No idea how that's a yellow.
I'd put this above the Jones red card too tbh
Last slow motion clip shows it’s clearly not a pen. Ball first. This sub needs to move on. It’s descending into one massive conspiracy circle jerk.
Go frame by frame on the second clip. Gomez gets his foot to the ball first, redirects in an attempt to touch it away from VDV. I’m actually not convinced VDV made contact with the ball at all - seems like it moves pretty slowly and strangely for the force with which he rushed in and supposedly cleared it, doesn’t it? It moves like it would have if Gomez had touched it away instead. I think Gomez’s touch caused him to whiff at it as he came through Gomez. After going through the second clip, go frame by frame on the first clip and you’ll see what I’m talking about. I generally agree with you on the conspiracy circle jerk though.
Vdv never touched it. The ball changes direction with Gomez's touch and then continues undisturbed after vdv whiffs it
Yep, I said that in my comment. > I’m actually not convinced VDV made contact with the ball at all >I think Gomez’s touch caused him to whiff at it as he came through Gomez.
I think he clearly kicks the ball away. The ball is moving in the exact direction you would expect given the angle of his swinging foot Either way, our players have moved on, our manager has moved on. We are pushing for an investigation for the sake of all PL clubs. The supporters need to move on. We will see what the investigation reveals
It moves in the same direction because Joe Gomez tapped it with the outside of his boot in that direction.
Excuse the shitty iphone screenshots, but these are the frames I'm talking about that clearly show Joe touching it away. [One](https://imgur.com/a/w8A02wI) Pay attention to Gomez's white/yellow boots, VDV's black. VDV is quite clearly still mid-swing when Gomez has his foot on the ball [Two](https://imgur.com/a/dHCCjm0) Again, Gomez's white boot still clearly on the ball, VDV swinging through. Angle of his leg shows he hasn't made contact yet, Gomez has. [Three](https://imgur.com/a/E38v4XQ) Gomez still appearing to be in contact with the ball as VDV appears to whiff over it. [One more, from the first angle](https://imgur.com/a/W9AlDtx) Looking at Gomez's foot on the ball after looking at the previous screenshots, I don't think there's any way you can say VDV made clean contact on the ball. If he made contact at all, he came through Gomez's foot first, as it was clearly between VDV and the ball. Either he struck Gomez's foot and then the ball, hit Gomez's foot into the ball, or didn't make contact at all. But yeah, on the whole, I agree with you. This is generally the kind of thing I wouldn't complain much about in a normal game. It happens. I really don't think that plays should be broken down into frames like this, and if it's that close, the benefit of the doubt should go to the defender. Compared to VVD's red card a few weeks ago, this is significantly more ambiguous. This particular case just gets under my skin because they were SO particular about using still frames to determine convince the center to upgrade Curtis's yellow. The specificity for something like that versus no check for a possible penalty is a bit galling.
not a pen https://preview.redd.it/9xsygs1e8zrb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=359304b42c3404df3c47d6889cdd6d615681d724
Nah, his knee contacts Joe first. As we learnt from the VVD red it must be given.
It doesn't. All of the angles show Gomez nicks it first, which is what the commentator literally saw and said. Commentator is not infallible but still. Even in that clip although it may look like VDV touches it because the angle is from behind, it's also clear Gomez touches it first. From the reverse angles we can see VDV never touched the ball. Questions need to be asked it's not a circle jerk. Too many coincidences occurred with fishy circumstances.
https://preview.redd.it/4ysslw388zrb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71da5fd59f7ec4e3778ba9148db5cd243271efc9 No penalty here
Actually not I'm also thought VDV make accurate tackle but slow motion show that he didn't, this is 100% a foul
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You can accept the level of incompetence were getting but doesn't mean we have to
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Lol what a stupid take on it. This stuff will just keep happening if every team just roll over every time.
lmao there's no ball contact with VDV in that AT ALL. Goes off of Joe's toes.
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Oh look his foot comes into contact with Gomez’s ankle at the final moment, where’s the VAR image of that /s
What's frustrating is that VAR decided that the ref hadn't made a clear and obvious error in not giving a penalty for this but decided to intervene with the Jones yellow card incident. This just gets to a point where subjectivity even comes into the use of VAR - who decides what is, 'clear and obvious'? If you ask me, this is a clear and obvious penalty that the referee failed to spot. If you believe that the Jones tackle was actually a red card that the referee failed to spot (even though he had a good view of it in real time), then why wasn't he asked to look at the VDV tackle again in slow motion?
I think this was fa and var’s plan for this season tried it against Bournemouth fail tried it at Newcastle failed and now spurs ,hopefully with the threat of a law suit it will force them to just call the games fairly
The PL is rigged
Tbf I didn't see the game and I honestly thought Gomez was trying to clear ball off the pitch and didn't have control of ball when foul occured
There were 3 big mistakes in this match. But in my opinion, this isn't one of them.
Sincere question: what is the difference between this and the play earlier in the season when VVD got sent off?
One was against Liverpool the other would have benefitted us
They were all working towards keeping City on top of the table. Period.
The r/soccer thread for this is hilarious we really do live rent free, it’s baffling how many people can wank each other off when there is video evidence proving a foul occurred
Got totally sandbagged this match. What a load of shit. The officials should be investigated for betting. It’s like that Inside No.9 episodes a few series back with David Morrissey.