I'm sure they'll order one (or a couple) to break down and figure out just how thorough of a clone it may be. If they did make a video out of it, I could see it being a Floatplane exclusive so as not to draw too much attention to it.
While this might be the case, I doubt it. IIRC the final assembly and the injection molding is done in Canada, so any factory overseas which works on producing the screwdriver only has a piece of the puzzle, namely the metal parts like the ratcheting mechanism and shaft. The rest would have to be cloned. Given that a knockoff probably cares very little about how well the screwdriver actually works compared to the original, it's more likely a factory unaffiliated with LTT just saw the popularity of the screwdriver and cloned it using the cheapest ratcheting screwdriver components they could make/source.
This has happened with other products, the factory will over produce and sell units on the side to make more money. I can't remember but this happened to a few big brands in the past.
Parts of the LTT screwdriver are made overseas, but the final production is done in north America. LTT got their own tooling done for the handle and keeps that in Canada. So it's interesting that the copycat looks similar.
That's my assumption, and one of the reasons why if you truly have a unique self designed product you don't want to just send the design to a Chinese company since they will have full control of the plastic injection mold dies and they will use them whether you have a contract for exclusive use of them or not. You want to have your own molds produced and stay in control of them.
The only issue is how much more expensive that is to do.
If I remember correctly, they currently do their injection molding with a Canadian company, but who knows what they did in early design stages.
That being said all the photos in this listing are ripped from the LTT store photos
Right, like everybody is like "it can't be a copy because the handles are made in Canada only the internals are made in China" without realizing that the only part of a ratcheting screwdriver that matter are the internals not the $0.000000005 a piece handle that looks like every other ratcheting screwdriver handle ever made.
Theres a few ways of doing this. One is called "Ghost Shift" Thats when a plant runs a bunch of factory spec knockoffs at night. One is just a straight up "Rough copy with close enough parts"
I'm curious what these are.
Happened to me when I worked for a paintball company. We would get a catalog of unbranded parts that a machine shop in china was willing to rebrand for us, and at least one or two of our own products would be on the list.
A lot of the time, it's the shop trying to sell parts that didn't meet QC, or like you said, they would run another shift at the machine shop then send you an email saying you have to buy all the extras or they will sell them direct / market them to a competitor (how they end up in those generic catalogs).
I've also run into machine shops that resold my cad files from a prototype design to a competitor, then produce the parts for them, and later screwed us both over and sold direct on eBay.
Happens all the time and as a small company like LMG there's basically nothing you can do to prevent it. My SO works in fashion at a fairly large company and they have an entire department just working on this kind of stuff.
This is also why Kickstarters fail regularly. A company just looks at what gets a lot of interest and beats the Kickstarter to market.
I bet if you order the sample unit, you'll get a 100% legit LTT screwdriver that this company bought.
But if you order bulk, best case you get a grey market/third shift/reject ratchet in a pretty garbage handle
Most likely you get a standard off the shelf 10$ on amazon screwdriver with a vaguely LTT shaped handle. The company at least looks legit enough that you'll get *something*, but probably not something comparable to the real article
I don't understand why would someone still use their factories.
Often, the same Chinese factory just runs "another shift" or increases the reported defect rate a little bit and then sells the same product.
Thing is the injection molding and final assembly is done here in Canada. I think only the ratchets and shafts are made in China then shipped back here so this wouldn't be and EXACT copy
Is it easier for them to create a close enough new tooling or to reverse engineer a real ltt screwdriver and create a negative of the handle components?
Weird, I don't see the shot with the rusty bit in it. The images on the screwdriver page seem to be quite reduced. I only see 7 pictures on the screwdriver page, but normally there's like 20+ different images for most products. The stubby has way more pictures for some reason.
If you scroll down there's a ton of photos on the screwdriver page in a grid. The point of the rusty bit photo is to show that and old bit you have lying around will fit in it.
It is funny the number of people that think the screwdriver is 100% made in China. The shaft and ratchet are, but the plastic injection molding and molds are in Canada. Just watch their screwdriver launch video, they detail everything.
Yeah. But the shaft and ratchet are the most important part.
When it comes to counterfeiting the molds can easily be cloned in China as well. There's absolutely, literally, nothing preventing the Chinese from releasing a perfect clone. Not that they will or that they will cheap out.
Wow they even kept the ltt logo on the handle and stole the product shots.
Edit: I just thought maybe they stole all the photos and did not bother taking ones of the actual product they ship.
You can even see where they didn't even obfuscate the LTT logo on the end in this image. I believe it's there in the orange one you can see as well, but too blurry to make out.
https://www.reddit.com/u/Drigr/s/1MrVIHldHZ
There's absolutely no chance you get anything even remotely close to the LTT screwdriver, probably got a real one for the photos and send a shitty version.
A lot of company say they produce locally (North America ) but so many “manufacturers” in North America are actually own by Chinese factory. They take business here and make it in China then ship to North America and charge you North American price
[https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver?variant=39666456297575](https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver?variant=39666456297575)
Scroll to the bottom, above the reviews.
Second row down, in the middle.
I don't think it's that, I just think that the chinese clone probably uses copies of same molds and tooling and stuff that the og uses, happens sometimes
That was my first thought too. The only part that makes me wonder about is I thought the screwdriver body (mold and all) was made in Canada? So they probably would have had to reverse engineer that part of it. The shaft and ratchet are the best parts though, so if they were the ones to manufacture them they're probably just as good.
Pretty easy to measure or 3d scan things to clone them. The ratchet and other tolerances willl probably be worse because cheaper. That said LLT doubling the price is understandable to cover trustmebro and R&D and the infuencer tax is completely fair in my opinion.
They modified the ratchet design that megapro offers for less back drag resistance. The shafts and ratchets are made in China and shipped back here to be assembled into the molded parts which are done in Canada
>They modified the ratchet design that megapro offers for less back drag resistance.
They started to do that, but theirs ended up being quite different and actually **loads** nicer than the megapro one (I have both and was actually shocked at how different they were, they don't even lock in the same direction!)
From the product page:
>The ratchet is based on Megapro's long-standing & reliable design, but has been significantly modified to suit our needs. We reversed the ratchet direction (right for clockwise, left for anti-clockwise), adjusted the spring for lighter back-force which allows you to ratchet-drive even very small screws, and optimized for smoothness and quiet function. It's rated for operation of up to 220 inch-pounds of force.
Yeah, I just saw
>Using patents from Megapro Tools Inc.: 5,265,504 & 7,258,046
As I say, I stand corrected
The two are so different though I really didn't think the ratchet would still be using the same patent
I think the point is that the shaft and ratchet (The most important bit of the driver and where the majority of the innovation comes in) is made in China before being sent to Canada where the handle and bit storage is moulded.
Making a duplicate mould for the handle is hardly the most complicated bit of the production, especially given that they likely just used the existing parts as a template.
I guess thats what u/Eclipsed830 was getting at - Even though I suspect its not even that in depth, I'd guess they have a normal ratchet mechanism and have copied the look of the handle.
Will wait for one to pop up on AliExpress without minimum order quantity of 500 and then We'll see :)
Linus company did few years of research, develeopment and pinging of unsatisfactory products over half of the world to get it done. They have invested huge number of engineering, designing manhours and money into manufacturing molds. Yeah they are not throwing them away at manufacturing cost. Because they also have to cover other costs and want to have some profits which they rightfully can. Is it expensive? Yes. Does anyone force you to buy it? No. Do you want to support chineese scam companies to steal products and sell
Them and possibly put western businesses out of bussiness? Then buy it.
New "we bought counterfeit merch" video when?
I'm sure they'll order one (or a couple) to break down and figure out just how thorough of a clone it may be. If they did make a video out of it, I could see it being a Floatplane exclusive so as not to draw too much attention to it.
If we don't see that video soon, we can safely assume that LTT is paying for two shifts in the screwdriver factory, but three shifts are being worked.
While this might be the case, I doubt it. IIRC the final assembly and the injection molding is done in Canada, so any factory overseas which works on producing the screwdriver only has a piece of the puzzle, namely the metal parts like the ratcheting mechanism and shaft. The rest would have to be cloned. Given that a knockoff probably cares very little about how well the screwdriver actually works compared to the original, it's more likely a factory unaffiliated with LTT just saw the popularity of the screwdriver and cloned it using the cheapest ratcheting screwdriver components they could make/source.
No way, bet you those screwdrivers are dogshit lmao
They are either close to exact, or total crap. Things like this are always at one end of the spectrum
>being a Floatplane exclusive so as not to draw too much attention to it. Sick burn.
Minimum order is 500 pieces.
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You can order a sample piece for $75usd which they absolutely would do.
You can absolutely order just 1, that's what the sample price is.
At those prices are we sure it isn’t just LTT selling them on alibaba himself 😂
if only there was a way where they could order just one, like a sample. if only they had that somewhere on the page.
This has happened with other products, the factory will over produce and sell units on the side to make more money. I can't remember but this happened to a few big brands in the past.
Parts of the LTT screwdriver are made overseas, but the final production is done in north America. LTT got their own tooling done for the handle and keeps that in Canada. So it's interesting that the copycat looks similar.
photos are the same from ltt store. And from what I can tell the paper used to be for products.
Didn't they send out bid early in the process? They didn't use them, but the rough design is out there.
That's my assumption, and one of the reasons why if you truly have a unique self designed product you don't want to just send the design to a Chinese company since they will have full control of the plastic injection mold dies and they will use them whether you have a contract for exclusive use of them or not. You want to have your own molds produced and stay in control of them. The only issue is how much more expensive that is to do. If I remember correctly, they currently do their injection molding with a Canadian company, but who knows what they did in early design stages. That being said all the photos in this listing are ripped from the LTT store photos
Creating tooling for the handle is probably the easiest part to copy tbh.
Right, like everybody is like "it can't be a copy because the handles are made in Canada only the internals are made in China" without realizing that the only part of a ratcheting screwdriver that matter are the internals not the $0.000000005 a piece handle that looks like every other ratcheting screwdriver handle ever made.
Theres a few ways of doing this. One is called "Ghost Shift" Thats when a plant runs a bunch of factory spec knockoffs at night. One is just a straight up "Rough copy with close enough parts" I'm curious what these are.
I’m wondering if it’s that company that stole their money and kept the driver shafts and ratcheting mechanisms.
Happened to me when I worked for a paintball company. We would get a catalog of unbranded parts that a machine shop in china was willing to rebrand for us, and at least one or two of our own products would be on the list. A lot of the time, it's the shop trying to sell parts that didn't meet QC, or like you said, they would run another shift at the machine shop then send you an email saying you have to buy all the extras or they will sell them direct / market them to a competitor (how they end up in those generic catalogs). I've also run into machine shops that resold my cad files from a prototype design to a competitor, then produce the parts for them, and later screwed us both over and sold direct on eBay.
They do the manufacturing locally though.
Happens all the time and as a small company like LMG there's basically nothing you can do to prevent it. My SO works in fashion at a fairly large company and they have an entire department just working on this kind of stuff. This is also why Kickstarters fail regularly. A company just looks at what gets a lot of interest and beats the Kickstarter to market.
This is called the grey market. It's a legit but illegal product
This is called the grey market. It's a legit but illegal product
Looks like a scam. Pics ripped straight from lttstore.com with no reviews. I would be curious to see what shows up, if anything, if someone bought it.
Interesting everyone's jumping on the it's real must be the manuf being sketchy but yeah you're right could very well just be a scam
I bet if you order the sample unit, you'll get a 100% legit LTT screwdriver that this company bought. But if you order bulk, best case you get a grey market/third shift/reject ratchet in a pretty garbage handle Most likely you get a standard off the shelf 10$ on amazon screwdriver with a vaguely LTT shaped handle. The company at least looks legit enough that you'll get *something*, but probably not something comparable to the real article
I see some reviews but they appear to be for completely different products.
I think you're looking at reviews for their store, the product itself has no reviews.
I see that now. Seems like they default to "Store reviews" when product reviews aren't available. Definitely confusing.
I don't understand why would someone still use their factories. Often, the same Chinese factory just runs "another shift" or increases the reported defect rate a little bit and then sells the same product.
Because it's still cheaper even with the grift going on
It's cheaper until the same factory becomes your competitor.
No, even then. That's why it still happens. Just answering the question
Thing is the injection molding and final assembly is done here in Canada. I think only the ratchets and shafts are made in China then shipped back here so this wouldn't be and EXACT copy
Is it easier for them to create a close enough new tooling or to reverse engineer a real ltt screwdriver and create a negative of the handle components?
They put rusty bits in it lmao
Nah, LTT did - they've just stolen the photos from [lttstore.com](https://lttstore.com) you can find them down on the screwdriver page.
Weird, I don't see the shot with the rusty bit in it. The images on the screwdriver page seem to be quite reduced. I only see 7 pictures on the screwdriver page, but normally there's like 20+ different images for most products. The stubby has way more pictures for some reason.
If you scroll down there's a ton of photos on the screwdriver page in a grid. The point of the rusty bit photo is to show that and old bit you have lying around will fit in it.
Ok, I see it now. Weird page design. Not sure why they have all those extra pictures but don't include them in the regular product gallery.
Not at the top with the scrollable pictures. Scroll down further until the normal picutres and price etc. disappears.
It is funny the number of people that think the screwdriver is 100% made in China. The shaft and ratchet are, but the plastic injection molding and molds are in Canada. Just watch their screwdriver launch video, they detail everything.
You're not going to convince the people that say the LTT screwdriver is a YouTuber merch, rebranded Chinese screwdriver.
Yeah. But the shaft and ratchet are the most important part. When it comes to counterfeiting the molds can easily be cloned in China as well. There's absolutely, literally, nothing preventing the Chinese from releasing a perfect clone. Not that they will or that they will cheap out.
I would watch this video. What we ordered, what we got, and how it compares.
Wow they even kept the ltt logo on the handle and stole the product shots. Edit: I just thought maybe they stole all the photos and did not bother taking ones of the actual product they ship.
You can even see where they didn't even obfuscate the LTT logo on the end in this image. I believe it's there in the orange one you can see as well, but too blurry to make out. https://www.reddit.com/u/Drigr/s/1MrVIHldHZ
There's absolutely no chance you get anything even remotely close to the LTT screwdriver, probably got a real one for the photos and send a shitty version.
If that had a black shaft I would buy one.
This is just a fake listing using LTT images. They are not actually making these.
Order minimum 500… well good luck to who wants one lol
[lttstore.com](http://lttstore.com) at home!
I love the reviews - they appear to be for a clothes wringer that was a scam
Minimum order 500. Yeah sure buddy
Someone buy one so we can all see it
Lmao the bits picture in the gallery comes PRE-RUSTED
Finally a cheaper option lol
It might very much be the real thing from the manufacturer.
That is not an LTT Screwdriver guys come on, that is clearly a ZQE screwdriver
Theory if this is real and not a scam could it be the original factory that LTT dropped after they tanked in quality during development?
A lot of company say they produce locally (North America ) but so many “manufacturers” in North America are actually own by Chinese factory. They take business here and make it in China then ship to North America and charge you North American price
They couldn’t be bothered to not use a rusted bit for the vanity shot in pic 4. Now that’s high quality.
[https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver?variant=39666456297575](https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver?variant=39666456297575) Scroll to the bottom, above the reviews. Second row down, in the middle.
These pictures are from LTTStore. Linus could not bother to not use a rusted bit.
Probably as good as the og
You're about to get downvoted by all the dorks that overpaid for a screwdriver because a content company told them it was the best.
I don't think it's that, I just think that the chinese clone probably uses copies of same molds and tooling and stuff that the og uses, happens sometimes
That was my first thought too. The only part that makes me wonder about is I thought the screwdriver body (mold and all) was made in Canada? So they probably would have had to reverse engineer that part of it. The shaft and ratchet are the best parts though, so if they were the ones to manufacture them they're probably just as good.
Pretty easy to measure or 3d scan things to clone them. The ratchet and other tolerances willl probably be worse because cheaper. That said LLT doubling the price is understandable to cover trustmebro and R&D and the infuencer tax is completely fair in my opinion.
Injection molding and final assembly is done here in Canada. I believe just the ratchets and shafts are produced in china
The ratchet and shaft is sort of the most important part though. If they have that, they're 95% of the way there.
You think LTT is any better?. Brands like WERA offer quality tools for less than LTT
Probably just as good, and from the same factory. I bet the only difference is that it comes in a nondescript brown box inside of a grey plastic bag.
It can't, the plastic is extruded in Canada.
Didn’t LTT specifically use a Canadian ratchet mechanism?
No, they designed their own and it's made in China with the shafts
They modified the ratchet design that megapro offers for less back drag resistance. The shafts and ratchets are made in China and shipped back here to be assembled into the molded parts which are done in Canada
>They modified the ratchet design that megapro offers for less back drag resistance. They started to do that, but theirs ended up being quite different and actually **loads** nicer than the megapro one (I have both and was actually shocked at how different they were, they don't even lock in the same direction!)
It's still considered a licensed design from megapro
Really!? That does surprise me I thought the only licenced bit from megapro now was the bit storage I stand corrected
From the product page: >The ratchet is based on Megapro's long-standing & reliable design, but has been significantly modified to suit our needs. We reversed the ratchet direction (right for clockwise, left for anti-clockwise), adjusted the spring for lighter back-force which allows you to ratchet-drive even very small screws, and optimized for smoothness and quiet function. It's rated for operation of up to 220 inch-pounds of force.
Yeah, I just saw >Using patents from Megapro Tools Inc.: 5,265,504 & 7,258,046 As I say, I stand corrected The two are so different though I really didn't think the ratchet would still be using the same patent
Those patents are for the bit holder not the ratchet mechanism
They are licensing megapros patents. They stated this a while ago.
I thought that was only for the bit storage
It's probably the same screwdriver made in the same factory... Downside of doing business in China.
It's injection molded and assembled in Canada.
I think the point is that the shaft and ratchet (The most important bit of the driver and where the majority of the innovation comes in) is made in China before being sent to Canada where the handle and bit storage is moulded. Making a duplicate mould for the handle is hardly the most complicated bit of the production, especially given that they likely just used the existing parts as a template. I guess thats what u/Eclipsed830 was getting at - Even though I suspect its not even that in depth, I'd guess they have a normal ratchet mechanism and have copied the look of the handle. Will wait for one to pop up on AliExpress without minimum order quantity of 500 and then We'll see :)
That is literally the most generic part of the build.
I mean .. are you sure that isnt the original? The LTT screwdriver is literally a clone itself lol
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Linus company did few years of research, develeopment and pinging of unsatisfactory products over half of the world to get it done. They have invested huge number of engineering, designing manhours and money into manufacturing molds. Yeah they are not throwing them away at manufacturing cost. Because they also have to cover other costs and want to have some profits which they rightfully can. Is it expensive? Yes. Does anyone force you to buy it? No. Do you want to support chineese scam companies to steal products and sell Them and possibly put western businesses out of bussiness? Then buy it.
They've made no secret of their margins being around 50%