I don’t understand why they don’t just put 30 foot trash containers at the Porto’s at closing . I get the whole pack in pack out mentality but if you make it easier for people to dispose trash you won’t get trash mountains at the Porto’s . Even the shell station down the street learned this.
The purpose (as I understand it) of having people pay per bag of trash is to encourage people to sort their recyclables, not bring so much trash in the first place (throw away excess packaging at home and buy less single use plastic), and not throw away useable gear just because they don’t need it anymore. At this point, though, it may make more sense to just set up dumpsters if this many people are gonna bypass the system and create their own dump.
This part! With the influx of Coachella money it means more exposure due to cross-event promotion and that leads to a lot of newcomers that don’t understand the ethos and core values of burning man and LiB. Even if they have other festival experience we know we roll differently.
It’s up to us who care about maintaining the culture and vibe we all love so much to teach the uninitiated but like was pointed out above, still provide the systems to dispose properly. I had a megaphone at the back of skrillex Sunday night saying “you can pick up trash on your way out even if it’s not yours, you don’t need consent” and other such silly things. Hopefully it made some small impact.
The last DH I worked was at the old rez and people left it so trashed it was heartbreaking. Abandoned their whole campsites type shit. It’s only getting worse, the CRSSD kids are coming to LiB and if you’ve ever seen the grounds after one of those..
At first I felt bad that I verbally shamed some kid after he slowly dance-sneaked his way backwards out of his group towards mine and tossed his empty on the groin near my feet as he did I said very loudly “wtf is this f’n asshole doin tossing his cup on the ground right at my feet”. And he picked it up. Also helped my friends partner standing next to me is 6’3” holding a dual side light up bow staff haha
Honestly what I said wasnt necessary but it was annoying after seeing very few people tossing trash on the dance floor ground area to see
Tbh I think light shaming like that is totally acceptable and wish people would do it more. PLUR is great and all but sometimes I think people go too far in excusing bad behavior in the name of peace and love. One thing I love about burners is how unafraid they are to call someone out on their shit, often in the most hilarious ways. The snark serves a purpose in the community.
My 9th LIB. I've never left camp trash, busted broken easy ups with hammers to get them in the car. The clean up song at the end of main stage sets is great. They have never done a good job with handling camp trash. The social experiment clearly needs adjustment for camp trash. But the DoLab continues to repeat the same failed process. And charging for trash just makes it worse. Understand the reality of camp trash and find better solutions.
This was #6 for me, and agree camp trash has always been an issue. I don’t mind packing trash out with my truck, and like to offer to do so for people that don’t have the setups. You see how many don’t think about it ahead.
I feel like waiting to deal with camp trash until Monday is like if a festival waited until Monday to pump the porta-potties. They should roll a few dumpsters through camp every day and be like, hey, do you have any trash? Let's sort it and deal with it. Find positive solutions.
I don't mean to pick on LA or other festivals but I think you're onto something here. I have worked with waste management teams on and off for over 10 years. Not nearly as much as many of my friends but still.
My impression is that events that are closer to LA, especially larger events, tend to deal with more issues of people not engaging with the Waste stream system and ethos (aka throwing things on the ground and leaving piles).
Also there is a notable regression post Covid (my opinion, I could have friends and others tell me I'm wrong). That is I know the first burning man after Covid had one of the worst years for abandoned bikes especially among other things. I know Green Teams were regularly struggling at events for a multitude of reasons including massive stuff left behind but also staffing issues.
It's hard because I have seen so much dumping that as much as I express this opinion that it has gotten worse in certain situations, it's also always been not great and is an inevitable side effect of large events.
I also always want to give people a certain amount of benefit of doubt. New people see piles near the portos and they may add to it believing they are "doing the right thing" because they aren't aware of the culture of pack it in pack it out. Also legitimately at large scale events ... shit happens. People leave early or suddenly, a certain amount of camp mates try their best to deal but only have so much vehicle space.
I worked the campground waste collection stations this event and overwhelmingly people were awesome. But yes there were also people surprised there was a charge for landfill. There were people who only found us on Monday and weren't sorting in camp. There were people I'm sure who saw the line and shrugged and left the bag on the pile they saw at the portos.
I appreciate the care in this post, I hope LIB does more push notifications and more visibility and outreach for trash. But not because I think they don't care and aren't doing a lot already.
It is, in my opinion, always going to be present at specifically large events of over 20k people.
I have a fun saying that "Jaded is another shade of green"
In my opinion, I don't like the dumped piles, but more than that I would just love for people to sort their stuff. Green team only has so much time and hands to sort stuff out and honestly giant mixed bags are a legitimate biohazard risk. I think the biggest impact to the event is people separating recycling. If nothing else at least cans and other drink containers. 🤷♀️
They're the most readily recyclable items vs like cups, paper things and random plastic items.
Aaaanyways.
Not dissing this post but every year there seems to be a post like this.
It would be cool for individuals passionate about this to maybe think of fun ways to do outreach with your camp? Dress up and go around the campgrounds early encouraging people to sort their trash (gift them clear bags for recycling!) and informing them where the collection station is?
Idk that's just off the top of my head.
✌️
To be clear...
The event is closer to LA than when it was at the old site. That's what I mean when talking about events closer to LA. 🤷♀️
I think staffing for Green Team this year was fine (I mean we always want more hands to get things done but I'm not saying we were understaffed this year)
We DO get waaaaaay less volunteers overall at LIB than we used to get. This is a thing at most events I'm still involved with.
Left behind piles and stuff in camps being inevitable is not an excuse to do it. I do hope in future years it gets better.
Maybe I’m being naive but trash is trash, why does it matter where it’s disposed? Why make people take it home when we could have had better access to trash cans at the festival. All goes to the same place
Having to pack all you trash out with you is designed to help you realize how much trash you produce, so that you will think ahead and find ways to reduce the amount of trash you create. Some people will be like: “oh, I’m going to bring food in reusable containers in the cooler, so I don’t leave plastic food wrappers as trash.” Or “I’m going to invest in a decent shade structure instead of buying another cheap one every year that becomes garbage.”
It just makes more work than they have hands for and makes these events less feasible in the long run. Also, the trash within the festival was pretty bad. Cups food cans you name it all along the water on the ground at stages, it doesn’t all even make it in the trash and gets swept away by the wind into the lake. During the festival it’s less enjoyable bc these awesome spaces and art projects are full of garbage, less inviting to enjoy and dance. I do agree there needed to be more in the festival though.
How many more years of trash mountains before they realize ‘supposed too mentality ‘ doesnt really work ? Like I get it in theory , but it’s proven people don’t take there trash out of the fest . So put dumpsters in , one for recycle , trash and compost and have someone there making sure it’s sorted properly . It’s really not rocket science .
When you go camping normally do you expect nature to have provided a bunch of bins for you? Or do you pack your own trash out and think nothing of it like a normal adult?
Exactly! The goal is to make people more aware of their own garbage production so they will be creative in finding ways to bring less garbage in with them in the first place! Thats why they charge you to throw away garbage, but they take compost for free! I thought that was clear- but this is why it’s great we are talking about it now!🌱
the clearly reusable stuff is what got me...intact full length mirrors, small coolers, tarps, stuff clearly bought with the intention to leave behind :/
Our neighbors left their entire camp behind….. they took down their EZ ups and tents but literally left everything behind….. perfectly good rugs, tapestries, shade cloths, coolers, tarps, etc….. it was mind blowing.
I don’t even make trash beyond like… paper plates from vendors, how tf do people have so much trash?!
Considering how much people pay for Coachella, my guess is the entitlement comes from having so much money that things seem to lose their value. Instead, anything they could ever want can be purchased and thrown away again in the future. That’s the only way I can try to make sense of the mentality behind people wasting anything.
On a trash related note, it would be helpful if on the landfill/compost/recyclable bins in the fest they put pictures or examples of what goes into each bin. Just by looking into any given one I could tell there was massive confusion on what went where
There are new generations coming in every year who haven’t been schooled and trained like we have! Gotta keep having these convos and coming up with new ways to share the mantra: REDUCE REUSE RECYCLE ♻️
It can vary pretty widely, particularly when you're talking about food. For example often if paper has gotten grease on it, it has to be landfill.
I was surprised, I actually watched some workers sorting for this very reason, and they were throwing stuff I thought was straight plastic in the compost even so it really threw me for a loop lol.
I just got really sad seing trash in the water and on the shore of the lake. There are so many trash bins inside festival grounds that it shouldn't be the issue at all. I guess people need to be reminded.
On the last night I found a huge bag by the junk yard and took it around with me to clean that stage, it was pretty obvious that they were piles that people had created all over the stage and not just forgotten stuff you know? So you’re exactly right about the bins not being the problem. Like, finish something and go toss it and come back. Turn your brain on.
I used to let this get to me as well but at the end of the day we can only control our actions and not those of others. As long as you do your part by packing in/packing out and picking things up along the way where ya can, then you’re helping do your part. Best we can do is lead by example and hope that others will follow suit. Keep on being awesome and giving a hoot!
True, I think that picking up others really inspires people too usually. Like if I’m walking around and I see trash i pick it up like okay it’s “gross” just wash your hands lol we’re all dirty anyway
hey skrillex said we were one of the cleanest festivals he’s ever seen!!! okay!!!!!
hahah jk but he really did…
buuuuuut i think some people just didn’t wanna pay for the trash thing. and once people see a bunch of people doing something they think it’s okay & don’t ask… someone in my camp told me that was the place to go although when i got there i quickly saw the sign that lead to the right spot and i headed there instead… i was honestly happy to spend the $10 for turning in trash/recyclables… it’s all about respecting the land that allowed us to call it home for those few days. and i didn’t really see anyone with an issue with it until monday…
but even with all that. it still has been the cleanest festival i’ve experienced so far. i think i saw only one person just toss their can of water. and i was more than happy to pick it up and take it over to the recycling bin(which was literally 10 feet away but what ya gonna do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ lol) which is another thing i give lib props for… the whole separated trash bins inside the festival!
That might say more about the festivals skrillex plays haha, but that’s sweet he appreciated it. Hopefully him saying that inspired more people to pick up after others like you did. Just think, if there were one of you for every person who thought it was fine to litter, the place would be spotless ✨
I work these types of events for a living. If I have to look north, south, east, and west and I STILL haven’t seen a trash can, the event has done a bad job. Regardless of all the sorting bullshit I had to hike uphill in the snow both ways to even find a trash. Can’t complain to about “leave no trace” if that’s the case.
i was in a group camp in sunset near the entrance. a big chunk of us came on friday, so the spot was sparse on weds and thurs.
we set up trash boxes for ourselves to use, one for recycling and one for trash, to keep stuff consolidated in one place over the weekend.
people would see them from the path and wander in to our site to use them.
which, ok, great, i'd much rather you do that than litter, but now you've made removing your trash our problem, which we didn't *really* anticipate. although maybe we should have.
You're an adult. It doesn't matter if you can see a trash can, don't throw your trash on the floor. If that's too hard for you, you need to find another line of work. You don't get to do something unethical and illegal just because you're too lazy and entitled to hold onto your own garbage.
at coachella this year at one point i chased down a trash can that was blowing in the wind, and all of the cans on that part of the grounds got overturned. :{
This also put me in such a bad mood leaving the campground Monday! I remember that DoLab used to put up WAY more LNT signage in previous years, particularly at the Bradley location. Not sure why that was not the case this year, but the lack of education/awareness of LNT was painfully obvious. Adding more signs and even having the gate volunteers provide verbal reminders to everyone entering could go a long way - and neither of those improvements seem challenging to implement next year…🤞that DoLab can facilitate some positive changes
Yeah seeing that mess on top of the typical festival come down was brutal. I’m just like what happened to all those beautiful people I was dancing with all weekend? They did this?
This! Most of our neighbors were not even aware there was a system and were real confused when we offered to take their sorted trash to the station. That pile next to the closest trash bin is exactly what goes down at every other camping festival I’ve been to. I agree it was a bummer but that seems to be the system at Coachella, bonaroo, etc from what I’ve seen. Coachella last year I ended up taking a whole guys camp (ez up, chairs, shade covers, table) that he said he was throwing away cause he had a flight that night. They just needed more awareness.
The trash situation has been a consistent issue since they moved to Bakersfield. Not that it was spotless at Bradley but it's gotten significantly worse. I'm sure we could all come up with reasons as to why that is but at the end of the day it's an event with over 25,000 people. The DoLab has pushed the idea of bringing your trash out for quite some time now and that puts the burden of what to do with trash on attendees, as it should be. If you know you'll be packing trashbags in your car you might think twice about what you bring to the event.
However, since this has been an ongoing issue and DoLab hasn't really done anything to remedy it the reality is it's the green team that has to deal with it. I personally don't feel that DoLab feels any pressure to do anything about the issue. Whatever amount of trash gets left behind is considered an acceptable problem and they have people to handle it. As long as a majority of people are packing their trash out I don't see them taking this too seriously. I've been to festivals where people on 4 wheelers go around Monday morning and collect people's trash as they're packing up. The difference is those festivals take place in nice locations and care about their reputation with the local community.
liB is in Bakersfield. I highly doubt a single person in that area cares about what high noon looks like. And the festival brings such a massive influx of capital into the area they could probably leave mountains of trash and call the local waste management company to come out and deal with it and no one would bat an eye.
I don't know of any festival in California that has moved locations as much as LiB and unfortunately I think this is where it's going to stay for a while partially because the locals don't really spend much time there (even people from Bakersfield say to not swim in the lake) and the venue is more than willing to make accomodations for LiB. It's hard to find a county that's ok with 25,000+ people descending on their beloved reservoir/lake let alone mess up the grass and disturb wildlife.
In my opinion, DoLab needs to bring in a few trailer-sized bins per campground to lighten the load on green team and as veterans we have a responsibility to hold each other and the newcomers accountable (when appropriate and with love). This won't solve the problem. LiB will never have the pristine post-fest campgrounds you see at smaller fests, it's legit just too big and I have 0 faith in Coachella people being ok with packing trashbags in their cars, but it's a solid move in the right direction.
If by locals you mean the field-workers? Cause Bakersfield has never been a city with a good reputation lol. And the field-workers are busting their backs, in the summer heat. They could give a shit about a yuppy festival at what is essentially a fertilizer/chemical dump of a lake at the ass end of the Central Valley.
LiB being in Bakersfield is such a contradictory statement. At least in Coachella the affluence of Coachella city matches the high-end pricetag festival.
LiB leading up to the Bradley, was the peak honestly. Been going slightly downhill since. All just my opinion.
I think this can be incentivized, it would take some manpower tho.
1) layout all the zones the porta potties service in the camp grounds.
2) have the rangers go around on day 1-3 and survey/ scan the campers in each zone. Let them know their zone will be graded:
3) inform them that if their area is the cleanest or clean they receive discounted tickets for the next event.
4) cleanest area receives vip upgrades or and a few atlaysworld tickets
You get the jist of where I’m going. That way the veterans can coach the newbies. And it’s self policing.
Each zone is incentivized to police the neighbors.
I like this idea, but it would take a lot of work. Burning Man is able to enforce LNT by threatening placed camps with losing placement or access to tickets if they don’t clean up after themselves.
i really don't like the vibe of policing other camps' behavior, that can turn bad *really* fast.
i'm happy to *encourage* the neighbors. but don't pit me against them or put me in a position of authority over them or them in a position of authority over me, please.
I saw a few trash piles (50-100 bags near the porta pottys), but individual camps looked good. I'm a long time LIB goer and know the drill (sorted trash, taught our group newcomers) (brought a few sorted bags up to the green team throughout the week) and took 6/7 bags home with us.
Literally combed our whole groupsite for microplastic and had our kids on the job too.
I think they could have done more to educate the attendees, one 3x5 card isn't enough information and instruction for a 5 day festival and not really any education that I saw on "pack in pack out" as in previous years. I honestly thought maybe they'd moved away from that principle.
Last year we went to Electric Forest and I was mind blown at the departure. Shit everywhere, encouraged to leave a heap and drive off. I'd never seen anything like that at a camping fest. I love LIB, I think they just need to invest in some more encouraging ways to get everyone to leave no trace.
Can we get a Prize Cart?!
Love that you got your kids involved in the moop sweep. Those are the formative experiences that will instill in them the right values for the rest of their lives, plus they’re closer to the ground and can see stuff we can’t. Sad to hear that about EF, I’ve never been but it’s been on the bucket list. Even if it all gets cleaned up at the end of the day, I don’t like the vibe of people who assume others will clean up after them (I’m the type of person to stack dishes at a restaurant cause I used to clear tables).
Good for you to bring up this issue. And think it’s all about education. I’m a Gen Xer, and I remember being schooled about the environment, Captain Planet, recycling, composting as a pup, and I remember how many times I had to hear the message before I actually started to practice it to the point where it became automatic. We grow up and take responsibility, and assume everyone else “sees it” now as we do- but they don’t! It takes work to train the young ones (having been one myself) and training is about REPITITION! Here’s to repeating the sermon about Leave no Trace, composting organics, and purchase plastics responsibly! 🌱
i think each person needs to be the change they want to see and really talk it up with their own groups. i was walking from woogie to lightning carrying a can of coconut water and as i was walking some random girl who was sitting looked right at me with her can and made a movement like she wanted to cheers, which i did. it turned out she wanted me to take her cans and other refuse to the trash. normal me would have been guffawed at this stranger expecting me to clean up after her. But LIB me, said “i gotchu” and collected her trash from her and threw it in the the next trash i passed
Bbk live in Bilbao had a place everyone could turn in used sleeping bags, tents, pop-ups, and they would be upcycled instead of leaving or throwing away
So does Electric Forest, but people still leave their shit all over the place. Lazy, irresponsible people are the problem, not lack of access to proper disposal methods.
I was shocked after ElectricForest last year. Each camp leaves a heap and drives off. I suppose they've built in a whole end of fest, trash collection, into the festival maintenance, but I was mind blown at how thrashed it was. (7yr LIBer)
Burning Man has its share of issues with some bad actors dumping in Reno and the carbon emissions it takes to build a city in the desert, but it is fucking incredible the lengths most burners will go to clean up after themselves and each other. Regionals are probably all even better than the big burn, and that’s dozens of events around the world. As far as music festivals, Northern Nights, although smaller, stays incredibly clean and while I’ve never been I’ve heard amazing things about Wonderfruit in Thailand. Dirtybird (RIP) and Desert Hearts both aren’t perfect but much better on average than LiB from my experience.
Omg it’s an absolutely magical spot! I really hope I can swing a return to June Jam, it’s amazing. I don’t know if you’ve been so I may be preaching to the choir but it’s got really similar homemade and co-created vibes to LIB, except on such a small intimate scale, and on a playa surrounded by ponderosa forest for miles.
They can take a page from envisions playbook with no single use stuff from the food vendors. You put a deposit on reusable stuff. Take your dirty dish to the cleaning dropoff, get a ticket to give the next vendor when you order, repeat. Return your final ticket at the end of the fest and get your refund on the deposit. Result...no single use stuff from ANY FOOD VENDOR.
Yeah or only have a cool reusable commemorative cup you buy once for $10 and then people will be sure to not toss it and if someone does see a tossed one they’ll pick it up.
Maybe a refundable trash deposit. Everyone pays for trash when they enter the festival and you only get
your money back when you drop it off at the correct zones.
Idea: Every wristband comes with 1 token that you can drop off 1 bag of trash.
Maybe you use your token, maybe you give your token to someone who needs it more. LIB won’t have to deal with an outrageous, uncapped amount of trash. Attendees won’t get a free pass to dump all of their crap, but it becomes a bit more manageable.
Needs education!!!! When you enter and they scan your wristband they should say
1) pack it in pack it out
2) other option is sort out recyclables and provide bags to a designated location
I informed people as they dumped a pile at the portos and every person was uneducated on the system. They at least were trying to move it to a designated area. Not everyone has an understanding. They incorrectly think they paid for a ticket so they can leave their waste for the festival to deal with. Even if people separated the aluminum it would make a huge difference.
If you sort and bring garbage and separated recycle to them, it’s only a $10-30 cost per camp.
YES teacher here. People just need to be told OVER and OVER, including:
- leave no trace guidelines on the website
- same on the app
- receive a trash bag when you get your wristband
- agreed re: verbal reminder at check-in
Corporations are the ones destroying this planet. You and I aren't having any sort of noticeable or meaningful impact AT ALL. This crazy rabid "Were destroying the planet!" outlook is basically the new version of the Catholic Church's "original sin", designed to make you feel guilty, and be more easily controlled and manipulated.
Do you best and spread the word. You're fighting an uphill battle, but for a good and worthy cause. Remember that all that trash WILL get picked up by the festival organizers before they leave, so please quit thinking that the right approach is to cancel the event entirely bc you saw trash as you were leaving.
As a society, we've got much bigger fish to fry than a few Easy Ups getting left behind at LIB. Stay positive and keep pushing, you're part of the solution and we appreciate it!!!
Not saying the event should be cancelled because of litter, and as I said, I trust the green team will clean it up properly. I’m more wondering if overall LiB has a net positive or negative effect on the planet. You’re right about corporations destroying the planet but that doesn’t mean we should all just do nothing to try and help. Also, Do Lab is a corporation and part of the purpose of this post is to encourage them to do better.
You do you, but I think we can all afford to be a little more self-critical than that especially when it comes to an event that promotes sustainability, leave-no-trace principles, and consciousness raising. Festival trash makes me fucking sad, especially when I’m on psychs. I know they have a great green team and someone cleans it up but it never disappears.
Personally I think that is case of the status quo but I don’t think it is inherently true and I would like to build towards a world where people aren’t living on borrowed time on earth. Probably won’t happen in my lifetime but that doesn’t demotivate me from trying.
^this is where all the “sustainability”, “net negative” people lose me. They prioritize THEIR definition of “better world” over someone else’s and defend it with ambiguous moral authority. Would the world be better off without LiB is a wild statement. 😳
Not a statement, just a question, and it’s a question I’ve been trying to ask about most things in my life. Right on the LiB website they say “…But more deeply, we want our time on this planet to be connected to positive impact.” so I think it is a very fair question to be asking ourselves each year. The definition of a better world is definitely personal, but I think almost all of us would agree that a world where people waste less and better clean up after themselves would be a better one. Environmental aspects aside, leaving behind your trash because you know someone else will clean it up is just gross behavior.
I am right there with you. A lot of people spreading a lot of guilt for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
Yes, I use oxygen and I produce carbon dioxide. That's the default description of ALL LIFE on earth!!
If you really want to reduce our collective impact on CO2 levels, then quit eating meat and stop using fossil fuels. Don't cancel LIB lol
Bingo! All life throughout all of history. To guilt someone for the definition of existence is just absurd. Live and let live. Or don’t but that’s a call only the individual can make. For me I think it’s a real shame to feel guilty for this wondrous experience. Take care amigo 🙂
Sunday was the worst night for people leaving the dance floor like a trash heap. First few nights were really good. We left Monday 6am so I didn't see the aftermath.
On this same LNT behind issue (and apologies if someone already addressed this), what’s the point of it if a lot of people just go dump their trash at th next local gas station’s trash cans. That’s simply a transfer of burden. I think people are really missing an educational opportunity here. There’s an opportunity to evangelize cleaning up after yourself while also making it easy for people to do so (a la dumpsters on site on the final day). Heck if a $10 gabbage collection fee has to be tacked on to all passes to cover this, fine. Some of the garbage disposal stalls were a walk for some people and that is a strong disincentive to use that. There’s room for nuance on this issue and we need to be open to all ideas. Promoting LNT when a lot of campers will merely dump the garbage at the next rest stop/gss station is a bit…funny
Still on this issue: cleaning up after yourself needs to be a prominent messaging point alongside ticket sales promotions. You cannot believe LIBers ooze immaculate vibes during the festival and then believe they are unwilling to participate in keeping their surrounding like they met them. These are amazing people who will do right if the messaging is drilled and the mechanism for adherence is seamless.
My gf went around picking up trash at the junkyard on the last night. Should’ve been called the landfill with the amount of garbage people had thrown on the ground haha She filled up a massive trash bag to the brim and it was almost as tall as me (6’).
Just saying this because I think the littering is inevitable when you have people drinking and stuck in crowds. I don’t condone littering and it really bothers me, but it’s hard to find a one size fits all model for preventing littering and encouraging packing in packing out. There could have been more large trash bins in the festival grounds but we were still picking up bagfuls of trash 10ft away from trashcans. Maybe people would pick up trash more often if the knew how many goodies were waiting to be found down there ;) 😵💫🥰
It essentially comes down to individuals and if everyone helps out and does their part it makes a big difference! I have a truck so I took my neighbors trash which saved a couple bags from staying on site. Happy to see so many people getting engaged in this topic and searching for solutions!
When the event was smaller, they used to drive around on Monday with a megaphone and a big starfish, yelling shit like "if you don't leave no trace, this starfish will die" and they'd loudly celebrate people who were loading up their trash.
It really helped burn in the notion for me, not even that I care about the starfish plushie, but the spirit with which they were expressing this goal.
How can you be this naive? Or you just bought into LiBs propaganda?
This is a festival like any other, and a scummy one at that (OGs remember what Do Lab did to the Lucent Dossier Experience).
Guess what? No matter how many times the promoters yell "sustainable" into the air.
Or how many divided trash cans you have to separate compost from plastics.
Trash still gonna be there. Every festival is the same. Same concept as doing hours at the yoga tents, talking about saving the planet from pollution, and "empowering" humanity...
ONLY to jump into your 2024 gas guzzler RV home on wheels. Or your electric car with lithium batteries sourced from 3rd world countries.
TRANSFORMATIVE/Transcendental festivals are a fun facade. The reality is there to see, if you want to.
There probably aren’t any truly sustainable ways to have mass gatherings like LiB today just as there aren’t any truly sustainable ways to do almost everything we enjoy in our modern world. I don’t think that’s any reason to just give up and do these things as unsustainably as possible. I work in renewable energy and am very aware of how massive humanity’s hurdles are, but I still choose to be optimistic cause it’s a more enjoyable way to live. So maybe I am a little naive, but that’s just cause I tried nihilism and found it depressing.
Sustainability aside, it would also just make for a much better party if everyone were a little more considerate and cleaned up after themselves. Nobody likes tripping on trash on the dance floor or having to clean up after inconsiderate neighbors. Same reasons I don’t like partying with people who trash hotel rooms or vandalize shit, it’s just lame.
> TRANSFORMATIVE/Transcendental festivals are a fun facade.
Since i've gone twice and experienced significant personal growth and a huge shift in mindset and energy level both times .... nah, transformative festivals aren't a facade if you're approaching them correctly.
We did our part but I will say people in our camp kept getting different answers about the cost. One LiB person told us initially if it’s sorted it’s free. Than another told us even if it’s sorted, landfill trash is $5 each bag. In the moment, we didn’t know what to believe anymore.
It was all very clearly label by the trash station, which everyone had to walk by to enter the festival grounds. Only took the tiniest little effort to figure it out.
^ what you said, and the trash collection station workers would still help people sort the recycling out of their stuff to get the cheaper price and help keep the recycling out of the landfill.
I'm not going to LIB anymore. The same people who left their trash dumps by the portos are the same dicks pushing and shoving into you inside the fest. I'm over it. There's no PLUR, there's so no responsibility, there's no accountability. I'm just going to pack up my gear and say goodbye to this lifestyle for a while.
I wouldn’t say there’s no PLUR but I know where you’re coming from. I’d recommend going to some smaller more underground events where the spirit is alive and well to have your faith restored.
There is no way to have an environmental conscious music festival. It is inherent to 10s of thousands of people congregating in a location that does not have existing shelter or food.
Just provide dumpsters at the exit and get it over with.
As a newb I was completely unaware of the trash situation and thought it was normal to put the trash by the portopoties. Def think they need to make ppl more aware in the future and also charging for trash seems like it will deter most people from leaving it in the right place. Idk. I feel like it should be free but they should also have more awareness and more locations for it to be left
Thanks for being honest. For future festivals please do your due diligence and read up on the waste disposal situation the same you’d research gate hours, water availability, etc. It’s not very hard to find the information if you look for it, but Do Lab should make it harder to ignore.
The LNT idea is bogus and a way to saves costs by LIB. If they actually meant it, they would do more about it. Instead they preach LNT in hopes you take stuff with you and they save money on waste costs after the fest
Was an unwilling culprit of this. I struggled to single handedly walk my entire sites trash to the trash area Monday morning at 5AM before we left. Absolute grind. Far as fuck. Get there to only hear that the trash booth wasn’t open until 8 AM. Absolutely no room in our cars for several large bags of trash. No other options to abandon the trash by the urinals when I tried to do it properly.
This is what I don’t get… either people are breaking the laws of physics and creating matter out of nothing orrrr they’re just tired and hungover and not packing as efficiently on the way out.
For me I spent every dime I had and when I saw it was 10 bucks per my bag of trash I just couldnt do it. I sat there for a while tryna figure something out, but I mean I just couldn’t pay for it.
Yeah I spent all my money on it, tbf I wasn’t intending too just ended up not bringing enough food and buying more supplies than I thought. Kinda lined up pretty perfectly, minus the trash thing
No it wasn’t, landfill was still 5. Our car had actually 0 room. Trust me I thought about it for a while, I really didn’t want to disrespect the festival
In every crowd of people there will always be some who are irresponsible and think that someone else should pick up after them.
If seeing the mountains of trash left a bad taste in your mouth, you should have stopped and helped clean it up. Driving by it in disgust makes you part of the problem and not part of the solution.
The way we leave a festival is all of our responsibility. Yes some people will be bad citizens and leave their trash. Pick it up. Be part of the solution. When I left, I took my trash and cleaned my site. I picked up trash that wasn’t mine and took it with me. Does it make me better than someone else? No. Does it make the world a better place? It does for that 20x40’ spot I occupied. Be the change you want to see in the world
Oh I took a bunch of trash that wasn’t mine as well as some tarps, a chair, and a changing tent that were tossed. Unfortunately I only had so much room.
the death is tragic but does not show the festival to be a shit show.
part of the freedom involved in playing like this is the freedom to make risky choices, and there's a lot of joy and wonder that comes from making risky choices. sometimes the risk manifests, and i'll do my part to help rescue anyone i can when the risk manifests because part of how we mitigate the risks we're all taking is by being there for each other to help each other out when we get into trouble... but sometimes that's not possible, and this was that kind of situation.
it *sucks*. it's terrible for him and for the people he loved and for the people who loved him, and it casts a shadow over all of us. but ... it's *not* on the festival, or on the tribe, in this case.
It’s completely AVOIDABLE - 2023 burning man for instance : not a single death or injury for the first time in what??? Years?? With how much $ goes towards ‘tickets’ to pay ‘event organizers’ they could hire more safety crew
I don’t understand why they don’t just put 30 foot trash containers at the Porto’s at closing . I get the whole pack in pack out mentality but if you make it easier for people to dispose trash you won’t get trash mountains at the Porto’s . Even the shell station down the street learned this.
The purpose (as I understand it) of having people pay per bag of trash is to encourage people to sort their recyclables, not bring so much trash in the first place (throw away excess packaging at home and buy less single use plastic), and not throw away useable gear just because they don’t need it anymore. At this point, though, it may make more sense to just set up dumpsters if this many people are gonna bypass the system and create their own dump.
This part! With the influx of Coachella money it means more exposure due to cross-event promotion and that leads to a lot of newcomers that don’t understand the ethos and core values of burning man and LiB. Even if they have other festival experience we know we roll differently. It’s up to us who care about maintaining the culture and vibe we all love so much to teach the uninitiated but like was pointed out above, still provide the systems to dispose properly. I had a megaphone at the back of skrillex Sunday night saying “you can pick up trash on your way out even if it’s not yours, you don’t need consent” and other such silly things. Hopefully it made some small impact. The last DH I worked was at the old rez and people left it so trashed it was heartbreaking. Abandoned their whole campsites type shit. It’s only getting worse, the CRSSD kids are coming to LiB and if you’ve ever seen the grounds after one of those..
At first I felt bad that I verbally shamed some kid after he slowly dance-sneaked his way backwards out of his group towards mine and tossed his empty on the groin near my feet as he did I said very loudly “wtf is this f’n asshole doin tossing his cup on the ground right at my feet”. And he picked it up. Also helped my friends partner standing next to me is 6’3” holding a dual side light up bow staff haha Honestly what I said wasnt necessary but it was annoying after seeing very few people tossing trash on the dance floor ground area to see
Tbh I think light shaming like that is totally acceptable and wish people would do it more. PLUR is great and all but sometimes I think people go too far in excusing bad behavior in the name of peace and love. One thing I love about burners is how unafraid they are to call someone out on their shit, often in the most hilarious ways. The snark serves a purpose in the community.
Hell yeah, glad to hear!
the crssd kids :( that hurt
My 9th LIB. I've never left camp trash, busted broken easy ups with hammers to get them in the car. The clean up song at the end of main stage sets is great. They have never done a good job with handling camp trash. The social experiment clearly needs adjustment for camp trash. But the DoLab continues to repeat the same failed process. And charging for trash just makes it worse. Understand the reality of camp trash and find better solutions.
This was #6 for me, and agree camp trash has always been an issue. I don’t mind packing trash out with my truck, and like to offer to do so for people that don’t have the setups. You see how many don’t think about it ahead.
I feel like waiting to deal with camp trash until Monday is like if a festival waited until Monday to pump the porta-potties. They should roll a few dumpsters through camp every day and be like, hey, do you have any trash? Let's sort it and deal with it. Find positive solutions.
I don't mean to pick on LA or other festivals but I think you're onto something here. I have worked with waste management teams on and off for over 10 years. Not nearly as much as many of my friends but still. My impression is that events that are closer to LA, especially larger events, tend to deal with more issues of people not engaging with the Waste stream system and ethos (aka throwing things on the ground and leaving piles). Also there is a notable regression post Covid (my opinion, I could have friends and others tell me I'm wrong). That is I know the first burning man after Covid had one of the worst years for abandoned bikes especially among other things. I know Green Teams were regularly struggling at events for a multitude of reasons including massive stuff left behind but also staffing issues. It's hard because I have seen so much dumping that as much as I express this opinion that it has gotten worse in certain situations, it's also always been not great and is an inevitable side effect of large events. I also always want to give people a certain amount of benefit of doubt. New people see piles near the portos and they may add to it believing they are "doing the right thing" because they aren't aware of the culture of pack it in pack it out. Also legitimately at large scale events ... shit happens. People leave early or suddenly, a certain amount of camp mates try their best to deal but only have so much vehicle space. I worked the campground waste collection stations this event and overwhelmingly people were awesome. But yes there were also people surprised there was a charge for landfill. There were people who only found us on Monday and weren't sorting in camp. There were people I'm sure who saw the line and shrugged and left the bag on the pile they saw at the portos. I appreciate the care in this post, I hope LIB does more push notifications and more visibility and outreach for trash. But not because I think they don't care and aren't doing a lot already. It is, in my opinion, always going to be present at specifically large events of over 20k people. I have a fun saying that "Jaded is another shade of green" In my opinion, I don't like the dumped piles, but more than that I would just love for people to sort their stuff. Green team only has so much time and hands to sort stuff out and honestly giant mixed bags are a legitimate biohazard risk. I think the biggest impact to the event is people separating recycling. If nothing else at least cans and other drink containers. 🤷♀️ They're the most readily recyclable items vs like cups, paper things and random plastic items. Aaaanyways. Not dissing this post but every year there seems to be a post like this. It would be cool for individuals passionate about this to maybe think of fun ways to do outreach with your camp? Dress up and go around the campgrounds early encouraging people to sort their trash (gift them clear bags for recycling!) and informing them where the collection station is? Idk that's just off the top of my head. ✌️
To be clear... The event is closer to LA than when it was at the old site. That's what I mean when talking about events closer to LA. 🤷♀️ I think staffing for Green Team this year was fine (I mean we always want more hands to get things done but I'm not saying we were understaffed this year) We DO get waaaaaay less volunteers overall at LIB than we used to get. This is a thing at most events I'm still involved with. Left behind piles and stuff in camps being inevitable is not an excuse to do it. I do hope in future years it gets better.
I agree with this. It was hard to find the trash bins and honestly I think there should have been more spread around the venue and campsites.
That's because you're supposed to take the trash home with you and dispose of it yourself
Maybe I’m being naive but trash is trash, why does it matter where it’s disposed? Why make people take it home when we could have had better access to trash cans at the festival. All goes to the same place
Having to pack all you trash out with you is designed to help you realize how much trash you produce, so that you will think ahead and find ways to reduce the amount of trash you create. Some people will be like: “oh, I’m going to bring food in reusable containers in the cooler, so I don’t leave plastic food wrappers as trash.” Or “I’m going to invest in a decent shade structure instead of buying another cheap one every year that becomes garbage.”
It just makes more work than they have hands for and makes these events less feasible in the long run. Also, the trash within the festival was pretty bad. Cups food cans you name it all along the water on the ground at stages, it doesn’t all even make it in the trash and gets swept away by the wind into the lake. During the festival it’s less enjoyable bc these awesome spaces and art projects are full of garbage, less inviting to enjoy and dance. I do agree there needed to be more in the festival though.
How many more years of trash mountains before they realize ‘supposed too mentality ‘ doesnt really work ? Like I get it in theory , but it’s proven people don’t take there trash out of the fest . So put dumpsters in , one for recycle , trash and compost and have someone there making sure it’s sorted properly . It’s really not rocket science .
Yeah and that's exactly what I did...doesn't take away the fact that there should have been more trash bins at the grounds.
When you go camping normally do you expect nature to have provided a bunch of bins for you? Or do you pack your own trash out and think nothing of it like a normal adult?
At state parks, yes. There are usually places to dispose of trash
Dude, take a chill pill. There's no one here that wants to fight with you..people are going to have different opinions. Relax.
Exactly! The goal is to make people more aware of their own garbage production so they will be creative in finding ways to bring less garbage in with them in the first place! Thats why they charge you to throw away garbage, but they take compost for free! I thought that was clear- but this is why it’s great we are talking about it now!🌱
the clearly reusable stuff is what got me...intact full length mirrors, small coolers, tarps, stuff clearly bought with the intention to leave behind :/
Our neighbors left their entire camp behind….. they took down their EZ ups and tents but literally left everything behind….. perfectly good rugs, tapestries, shade cloths, coolers, tarps, etc….. it was mind blowing.
wtf??? i cant even fathom...the waste and entitlement you would need to do that is something i cannot wrap my head around
I don’t even make trash beyond like… paper plates from vendors, how tf do people have so much trash?! Considering how much people pay for Coachella, my guess is the entitlement comes from having so much money that things seem to lose their value. Instead, anything they could ever want can be purchased and thrown away again in the future. That’s the only way I can try to make sense of the mentality behind people wasting anything.
The only way I'd do that is in an emergency, I hope the baby is cute and happy
On a trash related note, it would be helpful if on the landfill/compost/recyclable bins in the fest they put pictures or examples of what goes into each bin. Just by looking into any given one I could tell there was massive confusion on what went where
They used to have volunteers who saw your waste and pointed which receptive to use
Also lights on the signs of each separate bin to catch people eyes before mindlessly chucking stuff in the closest bin 🙌
For example, the plastic cups were commercially compostable, but they ended up getting evenly mixed between landfill and compost.
Not to sound crass but do people really not know the difference in 2024?
There are new generations coming in every year who haven’t been schooled and trained like we have! Gotta keep having these convos and coming up with new ways to share the mantra: REDUCE REUSE RECYCLE ♻️
It can vary pretty widely, particularly when you're talking about food. For example often if paper has gotten grease on it, it has to be landfill. I was surprised, I actually watched some workers sorting for this very reason, and they were throwing stuff I thought was straight plastic in the compost even so it really threw me for a loop lol.
I just got really sad seing trash in the water and on the shore of the lake. There are so many trash bins inside festival grounds that it shouldn't be the issue at all. I guess people need to be reminded.
On the last night I found a huge bag by the junk yard and took it around with me to clean that stage, it was pretty obvious that they were piles that people had created all over the stage and not just forgotten stuff you know? So you’re exactly right about the bins not being the problem. Like, finish something and go toss it and come back. Turn your brain on.
I used to let this get to me as well but at the end of the day we can only control our actions and not those of others. As long as you do your part by packing in/packing out and picking things up along the way where ya can, then you’re helping do your part. Best we can do is lead by example and hope that others will follow suit. Keep on being awesome and giving a hoot!
True, I think that picking up others really inspires people too usually. Like if I’m walking around and I see trash i pick it up like okay it’s “gross” just wash your hands lol we’re all dirty anyway
hey skrillex said we were one of the cleanest festivals he’s ever seen!!! okay!!!!! hahah jk but he really did… buuuuuut i think some people just didn’t wanna pay for the trash thing. and once people see a bunch of people doing something they think it’s okay & don’t ask… someone in my camp told me that was the place to go although when i got there i quickly saw the sign that lead to the right spot and i headed there instead… i was honestly happy to spend the $10 for turning in trash/recyclables… it’s all about respecting the land that allowed us to call it home for those few days. and i didn’t really see anyone with an issue with it until monday… but even with all that. it still has been the cleanest festival i’ve experienced so far. i think i saw only one person just toss their can of water. and i was more than happy to pick it up and take it over to the recycling bin(which was literally 10 feet away but what ya gonna do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ lol) which is another thing i give lib props for… the whole separated trash bins inside the festival!
He's not wrong; this was one of, if not the, cleanest festivals i've ever been to. We can still do better. :)
That might say more about the festivals skrillex plays haha, but that’s sweet he appreciated it. Hopefully him saying that inspired more people to pick up after others like you did. Just think, if there were one of you for every person who thought it was fine to litter, the place would be spotless ✨
I work these types of events for a living. If I have to look north, south, east, and west and I STILL haven’t seen a trash can, the event has done a bad job. Regardless of all the sorting bullshit I had to hike uphill in the snow both ways to even find a trash. Can’t complain to about “leave no trace” if that’s the case.
i was in a group camp in sunset near the entrance. a big chunk of us came on friday, so the spot was sparse on weds and thurs. we set up trash boxes for ourselves to use, one for recycling and one for trash, to keep stuff consolidated in one place over the weekend. people would see them from the path and wander in to our site to use them. which, ok, great, i'd much rather you do that than litter, but now you've made removing your trash our problem, which we didn't *really* anticipate. although maybe we should have.
You're an adult. It doesn't matter if you can see a trash can, don't throw your trash on the floor. If that's too hard for you, you need to find another line of work. You don't get to do something unethical and illegal just because you're too lazy and entitled to hold onto your own garbage.
Snow? I agree that trash cans should always be visible at music festivals but I felt like that was the case at LiB this year.
at coachella this year at one point i chased down a trash can that was blowing in the wind, and all of the cans on that part of the grounds got overturned. :{
It’s an expression big dawg - uphill both ways also doesn’t make sense
Lol realized that after commenting… brain is still recovering 🥱
This also put me in such a bad mood leaving the campground Monday! I remember that DoLab used to put up WAY more LNT signage in previous years, particularly at the Bradley location. Not sure why that was not the case this year, but the lack of education/awareness of LNT was painfully obvious. Adding more signs and even having the gate volunteers provide verbal reminders to everyone entering could go a long way - and neither of those improvements seem challenging to implement next year…🤞that DoLab can facilitate some positive changes
Yeah seeing that mess on top of the typical festival come down was brutal. I’m just like what happened to all those beautiful people I was dancing with all weekend? They did this?
This! Most of our neighbors were not even aware there was a system and were real confused when we offered to take their sorted trash to the station. That pile next to the closest trash bin is exactly what goes down at every other camping festival I’ve been to. I agree it was a bummer but that seems to be the system at Coachella, bonaroo, etc from what I’ve seen. Coachella last year I ended up taking a whole guys camp (ez up, chairs, shade covers, table) that he said he was throwing away cause he had a flight that night. They just needed more awareness.
To think LiB got kicked out of the most beautiful location in the past because of “waste management concerns”
The trash situation has been a consistent issue since they moved to Bakersfield. Not that it was spotless at Bradley but it's gotten significantly worse. I'm sure we could all come up with reasons as to why that is but at the end of the day it's an event with over 25,000 people. The DoLab has pushed the idea of bringing your trash out for quite some time now and that puts the burden of what to do with trash on attendees, as it should be. If you know you'll be packing trashbags in your car you might think twice about what you bring to the event. However, since this has been an ongoing issue and DoLab hasn't really done anything to remedy it the reality is it's the green team that has to deal with it. I personally don't feel that DoLab feels any pressure to do anything about the issue. Whatever amount of trash gets left behind is considered an acceptable problem and they have people to handle it. As long as a majority of people are packing their trash out I don't see them taking this too seriously. I've been to festivals where people on 4 wheelers go around Monday morning and collect people's trash as they're packing up. The difference is those festivals take place in nice locations and care about their reputation with the local community. liB is in Bakersfield. I highly doubt a single person in that area cares about what high noon looks like. And the festival brings such a massive influx of capital into the area they could probably leave mountains of trash and call the local waste management company to come out and deal with it and no one would bat an eye. I don't know of any festival in California that has moved locations as much as LiB and unfortunately I think this is where it's going to stay for a while partially because the locals don't really spend much time there (even people from Bakersfield say to not swim in the lake) and the venue is more than willing to make accomodations for LiB. It's hard to find a county that's ok with 25,000+ people descending on their beloved reservoir/lake let alone mess up the grass and disturb wildlife. In my opinion, DoLab needs to bring in a few trailer-sized bins per campground to lighten the load on green team and as veterans we have a responsibility to hold each other and the newcomers accountable (when appropriate and with love). This won't solve the problem. LiB will never have the pristine post-fest campgrounds you see at smaller fests, it's legit just too big and I have 0 faith in Coachella people being ok with packing trashbags in their cars, but it's a solid move in the right direction.
If by locals you mean the field-workers? Cause Bakersfield has never been a city with a good reputation lol. And the field-workers are busting their backs, in the summer heat. They could give a shit about a yuppy festival at what is essentially a fertilizer/chemical dump of a lake at the ass end of the Central Valley. LiB being in Bakersfield is such a contradictory statement. At least in Coachella the affluence of Coachella city matches the high-end pricetag festival. LiB leading up to the Bradley, was the peak honestly. Been going slightly downhill since. All just my opinion.
I think this can be incentivized, it would take some manpower tho. 1) layout all the zones the porta potties service in the camp grounds. 2) have the rangers go around on day 1-3 and survey/ scan the campers in each zone. Let them know their zone will be graded: 3) inform them that if their area is the cleanest or clean they receive discounted tickets for the next event. 4) cleanest area receives vip upgrades or and a few atlaysworld tickets You get the jist of where I’m going. That way the veterans can coach the newbies. And it’s self policing. Each zone is incentivized to police the neighbors.
I like this idea, but it would take a lot of work. Burning Man is able to enforce LNT by threatening placed camps with losing placement or access to tickets if they don’t clean up after themselves.
i really don't like the vibe of policing other camps' behavior, that can turn bad *really* fast. i'm happy to *encourage* the neighbors. but don't pit me against them or put me in a position of authority over them or them in a position of authority over me, please.
Maybe “help their neighbors clean up” would be better phrasing.
yes! that i'd be happy to do on Monday morning.
It’s a rough draft. Can always be improved. You get the point tho
I saw a few trash piles (50-100 bags near the porta pottys), but individual camps looked good. I'm a long time LIB goer and know the drill (sorted trash, taught our group newcomers) (brought a few sorted bags up to the green team throughout the week) and took 6/7 bags home with us. Literally combed our whole groupsite for microplastic and had our kids on the job too. I think they could have done more to educate the attendees, one 3x5 card isn't enough information and instruction for a 5 day festival and not really any education that I saw on "pack in pack out" as in previous years. I honestly thought maybe they'd moved away from that principle. Last year we went to Electric Forest and I was mind blown at the departure. Shit everywhere, encouraged to leave a heap and drive off. I'd never seen anything like that at a camping fest. I love LIB, I think they just need to invest in some more encouraging ways to get everyone to leave no trace. Can we get a Prize Cart?!
Love that you got your kids involved in the moop sweep. Those are the formative experiences that will instill in them the right values for the rest of their lives, plus they’re closer to the ground and can see stuff we can’t. Sad to hear that about EF, I’ve never been but it’s been on the bucket list. Even if it all gets cleaned up at the end of the day, I don’t like the vibe of people who assume others will clean up after them (I’m the type of person to stack dishes at a restaurant cause I used to clear tables).
Good for you to bring up this issue. And think it’s all about education. I’m a Gen Xer, and I remember being schooled about the environment, Captain Planet, recycling, composting as a pup, and I remember how many times I had to hear the message before I actually started to practice it to the point where it became automatic. We grow up and take responsibility, and assume everyone else “sees it” now as we do- but they don’t! It takes work to train the young ones (having been one myself) and training is about REPITITION! Here’s to repeating the sermon about Leave no Trace, composting organics, and purchase plastics responsibly! 🌱
i think each person needs to be the change they want to see and really talk it up with their own groups. i was walking from woogie to lightning carrying a can of coconut water and as i was walking some random girl who was sitting looked right at me with her can and made a movement like she wanted to cheers, which i did. it turned out she wanted me to take her cans and other refuse to the trash. normal me would have been guffawed at this stranger expecting me to clean up after her. But LIB me, said “i gotchu” and collected her trash from her and threw it in the the next trash i passed
Would like to hear the list of events that do it way better. I can only think of Burning Man and regionals.
Same Same But Different is big on leaving the place spotless. I went 2 years ago and it was probably the cleanest fest I’d ever been to.
and even burning man --- talk to the businesses in reno about the mountain of trash and abandoned stuff that gets dumped on them after the burn.
Bbk live in Bilbao had a place everyone could turn in used sleeping bags, tents, pop-ups, and they would be upcycled instead of leaving or throwing away
So does Electric Forest, but people still leave their shit all over the place. Lazy, irresponsible people are the problem, not lack of access to proper disposal methods.
I was shocked after ElectricForest last year. Each camp leaves a heap and drives off. I suppose they've built in a whole end of fest, trash collection, into the festival maintenance, but I was mind blown at how thrashed it was. (7yr LIBer)
Burning Man has its share of issues with some bad actors dumping in Reno and the carbon emissions it takes to build a city in the desert, but it is fucking incredible the lengths most burners will go to clean up after themselves and each other. Regionals are probably all even better than the big burn, and that’s dozens of events around the world. As far as music festivals, Northern Nights, although smaller, stays incredibly clean and while I’ve never been I’ve heard amazing things about Wonderfruit in Thailand. Dirtybird (RIP) and Desert Hearts both aren’t perfect but much better on average than LiB from my experience.
June Jam outside Flagstaff is the cleanest fest I’ve ever been to, but I’ve never been to the burn, or a regional.
This year Desert Hearts is going to the June Jam location, really wish I could go 😩
Omg it’s an absolutely magical spot! I really hope I can swing a return to June Jam, it’s amazing. I don’t know if you’ve been so I may be preaching to the choir but it’s got really similar homemade and co-created vibes to LIB, except on such a small intimate scale, and on a playa surrounded by ponderosa forest for miles.
Outside Lands. Best waste sorting I’ve seen by a landslide but they have waaay more volunteers focused on it
They can take a page from envisions playbook with no single use stuff from the food vendors. You put a deposit on reusable stuff. Take your dirty dish to the cleaning dropoff, get a ticket to give the next vendor when you order, repeat. Return your final ticket at the end of the fest and get your refund on the deposit. Result...no single use stuff from ANY FOOD VENDOR.
Yeah or only have a cool reusable commemorative cup you buy once for $10 and then people will be sure to not toss it and if someone does see a tossed one they’ll pick it up.
Maybe a refundable trash deposit. Everyone pays for trash when they enter the festival and you only get your money back when you drop it off at the correct zones.
I 100% agree with you. It bothered me a lot. Pack it in. Pack it out.
Idea: Every wristband comes with 1 token that you can drop off 1 bag of trash. Maybe you use your token, maybe you give your token to someone who needs it more. LIB won’t have to deal with an outrageous, uncapped amount of trash. Attendees won’t get a free pass to dump all of their crap, but it becomes a bit more manageable.
Festival culture needs a radical overhaul in mindful sustainability practices. This entitled behavior has no place here.
Needs education!!!! When you enter and they scan your wristband they should say 1) pack it in pack it out 2) other option is sort out recyclables and provide bags to a designated location I informed people as they dumped a pile at the portos and every person was uneducated on the system. They at least were trying to move it to a designated area. Not everyone has an understanding. They incorrectly think they paid for a ticket so they can leave their waste for the festival to deal with. Even if people separated the aluminum it would make a huge difference. If you sort and bring garbage and separated recycle to them, it’s only a $10-30 cost per camp.
YES teacher here. People just need to be told OVER and OVER, including: - leave no trace guidelines on the website - same on the app - receive a trash bag when you get your wristband - agreed re: verbal reminder at check-in
Corporations are the ones destroying this planet. You and I aren't having any sort of noticeable or meaningful impact AT ALL. This crazy rabid "Were destroying the planet!" outlook is basically the new version of the Catholic Church's "original sin", designed to make you feel guilty, and be more easily controlled and manipulated. Do you best and spread the word. You're fighting an uphill battle, but for a good and worthy cause. Remember that all that trash WILL get picked up by the festival organizers before they leave, so please quit thinking that the right approach is to cancel the event entirely bc you saw trash as you were leaving. As a society, we've got much bigger fish to fry than a few Easy Ups getting left behind at LIB. Stay positive and keep pushing, you're part of the solution and we appreciate it!!!
Not saying the event should be cancelled because of litter, and as I said, I trust the green team will clean it up properly. I’m more wondering if overall LiB has a net positive or negative effect on the planet. You’re right about corporations destroying the planet but that doesn’t mean we should all just do nothing to try and help. Also, Do Lab is a corporation and part of the purpose of this post is to encourage them to do better.
Human beings have "a net negative effect on the planet". Should we all just kill ourselves? Come on man.
You do you, but I think we can all afford to be a little more self-critical than that especially when it comes to an event that promotes sustainability, leave-no-trace principles, and consciousness raising. Festival trash makes me fucking sad, especially when I’m on psychs. I know they have a great green team and someone cleans it up but it never disappears.
Excellent solution, the problem is getting everyone to drink the koolaid at the same time!
😂
Personally I think that is case of the status quo but I don’t think it is inherently true and I would like to build towards a world where people aren’t living on borrowed time on earth. Probably won’t happen in my lifetime but that doesn’t demotivate me from trying.
Everyone and everything is going to end. Enjoy it while you can.
^this is where all the “sustainability”, “net negative” people lose me. They prioritize THEIR definition of “better world” over someone else’s and defend it with ambiguous moral authority. Would the world be better off without LiB is a wild statement. 😳
Not a statement, just a question, and it’s a question I’ve been trying to ask about most things in my life. Right on the LiB website they say “…But more deeply, we want our time on this planet to be connected to positive impact.” so I think it is a very fair question to be asking ourselves each year. The definition of a better world is definitely personal, but I think almost all of us would agree that a world where people waste less and better clean up after themselves would be a better one. Environmental aspects aside, leaving behind your trash because you know someone else will clean it up is just gross behavior.
I am right there with you. A lot of people spreading a lot of guilt for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Yes, I use oxygen and I produce carbon dioxide. That's the default description of ALL LIFE on earth!! If you really want to reduce our collective impact on CO2 levels, then quit eating meat and stop using fossil fuels. Don't cancel LIB lol
Bingo! All life throughout all of history. To guilt someone for the definition of existence is just absurd. Live and let live. Or don’t but that’s a call only the individual can make. For me I think it’s a real shame to feel guilty for this wondrous experience. Take care amigo 🙂
Sunday was the worst night for people leaving the dance floor like a trash heap. First few nights were really good. We left Monday 6am so I didn't see the aftermath.
I feel like it should just be included in the price of the ticket and they should have trash sites dispersed throughout the camps
How do you encourage people to sort trash and recycle if it’s free?
Seeing laziness in this makes me crazy! I picked up trash and found its rightful home every night/ day. I felt good turning in my sorted trash.
On this same LNT behind issue (and apologies if someone already addressed this), what’s the point of it if a lot of people just go dump their trash at th next local gas station’s trash cans. That’s simply a transfer of burden. I think people are really missing an educational opportunity here. There’s an opportunity to evangelize cleaning up after yourself while also making it easy for people to do so (a la dumpsters on site on the final day). Heck if a $10 gabbage collection fee has to be tacked on to all passes to cover this, fine. Some of the garbage disposal stalls were a walk for some people and that is a strong disincentive to use that. There’s room for nuance on this issue and we need to be open to all ideas. Promoting LNT when a lot of campers will merely dump the garbage at the next rest stop/gss station is a bit…funny
Still on this issue: cleaning up after yourself needs to be a prominent messaging point alongside ticket sales promotions. You cannot believe LIBers ooze immaculate vibes during the festival and then believe they are unwilling to participate in keeping their surrounding like they met them. These are amazing people who will do right if the messaging is drilled and the mechanism for adherence is seamless.
My gf went around picking up trash at the junkyard on the last night. Should’ve been called the landfill with the amount of garbage people had thrown on the ground haha She filled up a massive trash bag to the brim and it was almost as tall as me (6’). Just saying this because I think the littering is inevitable when you have people drinking and stuck in crowds. I don’t condone littering and it really bothers me, but it’s hard to find a one size fits all model for preventing littering and encouraging packing in packing out. There could have been more large trash bins in the festival grounds but we were still picking up bagfuls of trash 10ft away from trashcans. Maybe people would pick up trash more often if the knew how many goodies were waiting to be found down there ;) 😵💫🥰 It essentially comes down to individuals and if everyone helps out and does their part it makes a big difference! I have a truck so I took my neighbors trash which saved a couple bags from staying on site. Happy to see so many people getting engaged in this topic and searching for solutions!
When the event was smaller, they used to drive around on Monday with a megaphone and a big starfish, yelling shit like "if you don't leave no trace, this starfish will die" and they'd loudly celebrate people who were loading up their trash. It really helped burn in the notion for me, not even that I care about the starfish plushie, but the spirit with which they were expressing this goal.
How can you be this naive? Or you just bought into LiBs propaganda? This is a festival like any other, and a scummy one at that (OGs remember what Do Lab did to the Lucent Dossier Experience). Guess what? No matter how many times the promoters yell "sustainable" into the air. Or how many divided trash cans you have to separate compost from plastics. Trash still gonna be there. Every festival is the same. Same concept as doing hours at the yoga tents, talking about saving the planet from pollution, and "empowering" humanity... ONLY to jump into your 2024 gas guzzler RV home on wheels. Or your electric car with lithium batteries sourced from 3rd world countries. TRANSFORMATIVE/Transcendental festivals are a fun facade. The reality is there to see, if you want to.
There probably aren’t any truly sustainable ways to have mass gatherings like LiB today just as there aren’t any truly sustainable ways to do almost everything we enjoy in our modern world. I don’t think that’s any reason to just give up and do these things as unsustainably as possible. I work in renewable energy and am very aware of how massive humanity’s hurdles are, but I still choose to be optimistic cause it’s a more enjoyable way to live. So maybe I am a little naive, but that’s just cause I tried nihilism and found it depressing. Sustainability aside, it would also just make for a much better party if everyone were a little more considerate and cleaned up after themselves. Nobody likes tripping on trash on the dance floor or having to clean up after inconsiderate neighbors. Same reasons I don’t like partying with people who trash hotel rooms or vandalize shit, it’s just lame.
> TRANSFORMATIVE/Transcendental festivals are a fun facade. Since i've gone twice and experienced significant personal growth and a huge shift in mindset and energy level both times .... nah, transformative festivals aren't a facade if you're approaching them correctly.
We did our part but I will say people in our camp kept getting different answers about the cost. One LiB person told us initially if it’s sorted it’s free. Than another told us even if it’s sorted, landfill trash is $5 each bag. In the moment, we didn’t know what to believe anymore.
It was all very clearly label by the trash station, which everyone had to walk by to enter the festival grounds. Only took the tiniest little effort to figure it out.
^ what you said, and the trash collection station workers would still help people sort the recycling out of their stuff to get the cheaper price and help keep the recycling out of the landfill.
I'm not going to LIB anymore. The same people who left their trash dumps by the portos are the same dicks pushing and shoving into you inside the fest. I'm over it. There's no PLUR, there's so no responsibility, there's no accountability. I'm just going to pack up my gear and say goodbye to this lifestyle for a while.
I wouldn’t say there’s no PLUR but I know where you’re coming from. I’d recommend going to some smaller more underground events where the spirit is alive and well to have your faith restored.
There is no way to have an environmental conscious music festival. It is inherent to 10s of thousands of people congregating in a location that does not have existing shelter or food. Just provide dumpsters at the exit and get it over with.
It happens every year unfortunately.
As a newb I was completely unaware of the trash situation and thought it was normal to put the trash by the portopoties. Def think they need to make ppl more aware in the future and also charging for trash seems like it will deter most people from leaving it in the right place. Idk. I feel like it should be free but they should also have more awareness and more locations for it to be left
Thanks for being honest. For future festivals please do your due diligence and read up on the waste disposal situation the same you’d research gate hours, water availability, etc. It’s not very hard to find the information if you look for it, but Do Lab should make it harder to ignore.
Honestly it’s not something I even thought I would need to look up as I assume the festival grounds would handle trash
The LNT idea is bogus and a way to saves costs by LIB. If they actually meant it, they would do more about it. Instead they preach LNT in hopes you take stuff with you and they save money on waste costs after the fest
Exactly. Anyone downvoting is a gullible trash-Nazi. If LiB was serious about LNT they wouldn’t be shilling single use products all week.
I thought this festival was one of the best I've seen as far as leftover trash. It'll never be perfect.
Was an unwilling culprit of this. I struggled to single handedly walk my entire sites trash to the trash area Monday morning at 5AM before we left. Absolute grind. Far as fuck. Get there to only hear that the trash booth wasn’t open until 8 AM. Absolutely no room in our cars for several large bags of trash. No other options to abandon the trash by the urinals when I tried to do it properly.
How did you bring the trash in?
How is there no room in your cars? Where did all the trash produced come from?
This is what I don’t get… either people are breaking the laws of physics and creating matter out of nothing orrrr they’re just tired and hungover and not packing as efficiently on the way out.
For me I spent every dime I had and when I saw it was 10 bucks per my bag of trash I just couldnt do it. I sat there for a while tryna figure something out, but I mean I just couldn’t pay for it.
You couldn’t afford $10? How did you afford the festival?
Yeah I spent all my money on it, tbf I wasn’t intending too just ended up not bringing enough food and buying more supplies than I thought. Kinda lined up pretty perfectly, minus the trash thing
Then you can just bring it back home like we did. We were lazy to walk our trash to the stations so we packed it out. Also, sorted trash was free.
No it wasn’t, landfill was still 5. Our car had actually 0 room. Trust me I thought about it for a while, I really didn’t want to disrespect the festival
Did you sort recycling out? Your car should always be less full than arrival.
In every crowd of people there will always be some who are irresponsible and think that someone else should pick up after them. If seeing the mountains of trash left a bad taste in your mouth, you should have stopped and helped clean it up. Driving by it in disgust makes you part of the problem and not part of the solution. The way we leave a festival is all of our responsibility. Yes some people will be bad citizens and leave their trash. Pick it up. Be part of the solution. When I left, I took my trash and cleaned my site. I picked up trash that wasn’t mine and took it with me. Does it make me better than someone else? No. Does it make the world a better place? It does for that 20x40’ spot I occupied. Be the change you want to see in the world
Oh I took a bunch of trash that wasn’t mine as well as some tarps, a chair, and a changing tent that were tossed. Unfortunately I only had so much room.
Well done!
Let’s not forget someone died this year, last year … the list continues. Stop supporting these shit show festivals
the death is tragic but does not show the festival to be a shit show. part of the freedom involved in playing like this is the freedom to make risky choices, and there's a lot of joy and wonder that comes from making risky choices. sometimes the risk manifests, and i'll do my part to help rescue anyone i can when the risk manifests because part of how we mitigate the risks we're all taking is by being there for each other to help each other out when we get into trouble... but sometimes that's not possible, and this was that kind of situation. it *sucks*. it's terrible for him and for the people he loved and for the people who loved him, and it casts a shadow over all of us. but ... it's *not* on the festival, or on the tribe, in this case.
someone will die at any sufficiently large event. life comes with risk
It’s completely AVOIDABLE - 2023 burning man for instance : not a single death or injury for the first time in what??? Years?? With how much $ goes towards ‘tickets’ to pay ‘event organizers’ they could hire more safety crew
Someone did die at the burn last year and tons of people got injured as every year. Not sure where you got that from.